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Furious Denial === Republican response to Obamacare (Original Post) MindMover Mar 2014 OP
Not just the right wingers unfortunately. BenzoDia Mar 2014 #1
I was just about to post that.. Cha Mar 2014 #3
Yep. Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #6
Yup to the Yep. SoapBox Mar 2014 #7
I was sitting in a waiting room of a doctors office right after ACA was passed, Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #2
Ah yes.. fox truthers.. poor poor saps Cha Mar 2014 #4
Google news trends fbc Mar 2014 #5
Obamacare is an abomination; an unholy, but necessary, compromise to start the ball rolling... Moostache Mar 2014 #8
And you could have done better? OldRedneck Mar 2014 #9
plus 1 Liberal_in_LA Mar 2014 #10
I do not disagree that he got what he could...he got started... Moostache Apr 2014 #11
Well, I for one am glad you aren't getting what you want. Walk away Apr 2014 #12
Pragmatism meets idealism .... MindMover Apr 2014 #13
 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
6. Yep.
Mon Mar 31, 2014, 09:37 PM
Mar 2014

There are a number of self-proclaimed liberals are also totally vested in the idea of an Obamacare collapse.

It's rather pathetic when you think about it.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
2. I was sitting in a waiting room of a doctors office right after ACA was passed,
Mon Mar 31, 2014, 08:39 PM
Mar 2014

And a senior citizen was ranting about "we had a good health care system until Obamacare came along and now we have terrible health care". She was devoted to FOX news. If I would have attempted to correct her it would erupt into fire and brimstone falling all around. There had not been any changes implemented due to ACA. I would bet if something had been said about doing away with Medicare she would really have screamed.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
8. Obamacare is an abomination; an unholy, but necessary, compromise to start the ball rolling...
Mon Mar 31, 2014, 10:22 PM
Mar 2014

I give President Obama credit for firing the opening salvos in this battle for healthcare as a universal right of citizenship. He DID get the ball further than anyone else ever has in this country - including FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, Carter AND Clinton. He also paid for it with the effective legislative agenda of his entire presidency.

Single-payer is the solution. This is not "news", nor is it "radical leftist thinking". Healthcare is what is needed, not health insurance, and the sooner we get to that ultimate conclusion the better off the nation will be.

Imagine for a moment that we created something called "breathing insurance". In order to receive the life-sustaining air that is required to live, you would first need to have "breathing insurance", and the people who collect the money you pay would have absolutely NOTHING to do with generating or providing the air to you. They would then hire some politically connected Shylock to act as the CEO of this criminal enterprise; and would reward him or her handsomely with large portions of your extorted money. He would in turn make sure that his political allies and cronies did everything they could to keep this corrupt and exploitative system running indefinitely.

In fact, these companies would only serve to act as parasites, sucking money out of the system and contributing nothing to it in any meaningful way. Instead of that money being used to more efficiently deliver air to high altitude locations or undersea settlements, it would instead go to fund the campaign donations and salaries of the very people furthest removed from the actual air as you can get.

Now the purveyors of this insurance would charge you monthly fees despite not actually providing you with ANYTHING - no air, no breathing masks, no assistance at all. They would then go a step further and they would try everything they could to cut off your air if you engaged in high-risk breathing activities - like running or jumping or, clutch the pearls....having sex (preferably with spousal OR non-spousal partners as may apply, and of whatever sexual orientation(s) floats your boat!!!!!). The minute you exerted yourself and needed the air the most, they would move to cut you off and let you die rather than provide the service they contracted.

Now, if our only societal response to such an egregious situation was to fiddle around the margins and try to make sure that the only thing we could ever improve was access to the INSURANCE instead of free and unfettered access to the AIR, then we would be a society of scumbags more suited to future ridicule than reverence. On the other hand, if we used that first step to advance further still - to cap the profits of the insurance companies and drive them out of the industry by making it impossible for them to pay off their donors and CEOs while competing with a non-profit public system that is cheaper and more inclusive than they could ever afford to be....well, THAT would be something worth fighting for, something to be proud of, something I am WAITING to see from anyone in the Democratic leadership for healthcare....before the right-wing freaks and lunatics take back power and eliminate even the meager gains in insurance access that have been made...

 

OldRedneck

(1,397 posts)
9. And you could have done better?
Mon Mar 31, 2014, 11:26 PM
Mar 2014

President Obama got the best he could considering the fact he was hobbled in the Senate by fools such as Max Baucus who represented a small state with about 1 percent of the US population, and in the House by a dozen or so Blue Dogs. He should have called them in and threatened to castrate every Democrat who did not vote for the ACA.

He got what he could.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
11. I do not disagree that he got what he could...he got started...
Tue Apr 1, 2014, 01:40 AM
Apr 2014

The problem with ACA is that it is still insurance and not necessarily health care access for all. Its also a convenient political football for the 21st century. Democrats will support it and Republicans will attack it and neither side will actually DO anything about it....its the new Roe v. Wade for the next 30 years of campaign fund raising and utter nonsense...

I do not mean to merely denigrate, we are blessed with an abundance of enablers for the insurance industry and business model, they do not need, nor will they receive my support. We need to remove the insurance from the equation completely. Your "insurance" should be being a human being in this country, full stop.

Could I do better?
Yes.

How?
Single Payer national health care modeled on Great Britain and Canada and Norway and on and on and on.

Is that likely or easy?
Of course not, but President Obama has literally NOTHING left to lose politically....unless he has designs on a return to the Senate. He could throw all of his support into amending the ACA to provide more care and less insurance. This that going to pass the GOP house? Of course not....but what it WOULD do is put them back on TV trying to justify taking away things that are good in ACA - the prohibition of pre-existing conditions, the ability to stay insured with parents group plans to age 26 (by which time I was married, a home owner and had a child of my own without the benefit of my parent's insurance to keep my costs down), etc.

The GOP was getting bloodied by their own stupid hands in the end of 2013, and then??? The issue is back into spin control and being attacked again from the right. When you are on defense (constantly) you are losing...why do I dislike Obamacare? I dislike it because every second spent defending it makes it another second further away from ending health "insurance" in the USA...

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
12. Well, I for one am glad you aren't getting what you want.
Tue Apr 1, 2014, 01:29 PM
Apr 2014

Obama Care is already making it possible for some states to create their own single payer systems and also allows for a Public Option. As each state runs these systems and proves their worth, more will follow. How do you think Universal Health Care was going to come about? Congress would declare it so and a magic fairy would wave her wand and it would happen?
The ACA limits insurance company profits and encourages hospitals to lower cost by getting better results.
I would rather see as many people get health care as soon as possible while the Public Option grows instead of waiting until the magical moment when there is enough votes and enough public will to create an ideal system out of thin air.

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