Remember that 91 year old that the FBI raided for atifacts?

[Ichingcarpenter]

That's quite a raid with those vehicles and the three clean rooms just for some 'indian' artifacts and coins.



News background
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/04/02/fbi-seizing-artifacts-rural-indiana-home/7210675/

[safeinOhio]

1. I've always loved archeology, but

the professionals have always complained about amateurs and private collectors. Yet, I have never been to a professional's house who did not have his or her's own vast private collection in their own home. Seems very strange when they go after a private collection that the person displays to the public like this guy did. Then there are great discoveries made by those same amateurs that have expanded our knowledge. It would make more sense to only go after those that do it to get rich. I've been a metal detector amateur for 30 years, have never made any money doing it, just had lots of fun.

[Ichingcarpenter]

2. This guy worked at Los Alamos labs

and other top secret institutions.

Supposedly had a brick from the chicago pile 1 experiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Pile-1

[AngryAmish]

3. So the FBI just stole his stuff?

I am sure they will be able to charge him with something seeing how large the criminal code has become.

I guess the upside of this, no matter if any charges are brought, they can publicly humiliate an old man and ruin him financially.

I wonder who this guy pissed off? Hus collection was not a secret. I bet he was rude to someone in the fbi.

[Ichingcarpenter]

4. The safe room tents connected to his house

seems a little extreme for 'artifacts' in my book.

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. They brought 3 massive electrical generators.

Plus there is a massive portable air purifier next to the interconnected portable tents , you can see the air connection tube.



Looks like something out of ET.......LOL

[AngryOldDem]

8. Criminality depends on when he acquired the artifacts.

Indianapolis news had an interview with an archaeology professor who said that treaties concerning collecting these items are relatively new, and if he acquired these artifacts before they were enacted (I think he said before 1985), he did nothing illegal. The man says he's been collecting these things since childhood, and the community has known about it for years -- he even hosted tours of school groups and other people. Older locals say finding the Indian items used to be common in the area, and I can believe that. Take his stuff, if need be, return it to their rightful owners or put them in museums, but wrap this up already.

Meanwhile, about 50 miles north in Indy, we have multiple homicides every day that that police can't seem to get a handle on, and could probably use some help with, but the feds are hassling some old man over his hobby.

Not to minimize the historical importance of these finds, or the importance to the ancestors of those who had them, but...I think this is overkill and a massive waste of resources.

[AngryAmish]

9. The process is the punishment

Most likely a puffed up little man decided to make this guy smell the glove.

[AngryOldDem]

20. The FBI's been pretty tight-mouthed about what tipped them off.

Which I find puzzling. Maybe he does have some souvenirs from his Manhattan Project days. Again, if so, confiscate them and let him live out the rest of his days in peace. He's being cooperative, and it sounds like he will have no problem returning artifacts to their rightful descendants, so all these Elliott Nesses should just back the hell off already.

[KittyWampus]

6. Thanks for posting. DU could do well to have a discussion on cultural patrimony.

What does and does not belong to a people.

My best guess is they are trying to keep things organized and stored properly to safeguard artifacts and make sure they are in correct environment (kept out of rain/humidity etc).

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. Decontamination tents

for artifacts..

Yeah that's the FBI

[LiberalArkie]

10. Looks like a large tower in the back (ham?) and a building out back with

a large number of cables going into the back of the house. Also looks like a vhf or uhf tracking antenna on the back of the house.

[LuvNewcastle]

11. From what I read in the article, I don't see why the FBI would

be involved in this, except maybe to help gain access to the property for archaeologists and museum curators. Does the FBI show up when archaeologists do a dig on private property? There's something important that's being left out of the FBI's explanation for this raid. It looks to me like a country sheriff could have handled this. Maybe the 'Bones' team is there. It just looks like overkill to me.

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. He was at Los Alamos when

Roswell happened He had top secret clearance.



Alien Artifacts.......LOL.... anyway


The decontamination tents says

THE FBI never lies to the public and always give the media the true story....

sorry no reporters invited this is an ongoing investigation


This is bigger bust than when they busted Kim.com.

I've never seen those large government vehicles before also it looks like they have a Medevac ambulance parked there too


anyway .... over kill doesn't even
cover it..... I found it amusing

[AngryAmish]

22. How long are they gonna be on his property?

I smell a possible 3d Amendment violation. I am a 3d Amendment absolutist.

Ok, the fbi is not soldiers. But one of the 3d Amendment penumbras pertain to any federal official.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. 80 agents raided it in the first report

I read, most people didn't believe that but after seeing their set up
I don't' doubt it.

[Autumn]

26. According to the article, "It may be 30 years — or never — before they have it all cataloged."

Of course he's 91 so he will in all probability be dead by that time.

[pipoman]

12. Sounds like theft to me

Artifact hunting has been mostly legal forever. If things came from public land, or are made from prohibited materials (like eagle feathers, human remains , etc.). Other than that, most artifacts have been perfectly legal to buy, trade, and possess for most of this guy's life.

[Autumn]

14. What did he steal? The radiated bones of ET? Because that sure is a lot of

"heavy duty" equipment. Only thing missing is guys running around outside in contamination suits.

[NutmegYankee]

15. Since the article didn't state it

Did the FBI even have probable cause? The article implies that the artwork is being cataloged to determine country of origin and whether it was acquired illegally (post 1985 law). Don't you have to have proof of that first?

[2naSalit]

16. This looks like

post-raid operations. If the collection was large, as asserted, there would be a lot of space required to determine origins of so many artifacts that require handling in specific environments. Depending on what they are made of, their age, etc.. That being said, it takes a lot of space to have several labs for conducting such specific research in a high volume situation as this... and some of it may be toxic. There are also the NAGPRA (http://www.cr.nps.gov/nagpra/ ) regulations and requirements to be followed. Some of this collection is from other countries, that alone requires a certain amount of testing and research, especially if those countries want the artifacts taken from their lands back.

If it had been a smallish collection, the stuff would have been boxed up and transported. Since this appears to be a large collection and some of it no doubt extremely fragile, I'd say this looks about right for what should be expected in this case.

If you've never seen such operations, it would be useful to look into what actually happens with them rather than speculate about how much equipment in a aerial shot looks extreme to the uninitiated. Not a forensics lab you might see on TeeVee, even if it was, you could anticipate a mobile facility to look about like this for a large collection of items that require specific handling protocol.

[Feral Child]

17. Apologist!!!

Stop all those slick excuses, We know the Zombie Apocalypse is Today!

[Ichingcarpenter]

18. LOL if you say so

[2naSalit]

31. So shoot me for

being an anthropologist and having half a clue about recovery of artifacts.

Perhaps there is more to it and we're not being told. But the arguments are kind of thin so i thought I would mention that this set up would be appropriate for the purpose indicated by the authorities.

If you want to go CT about it, be my guest... I'm sure anything I have to say will be jettisoned immediately anyway by some.

[msanthrope]

19. This isn't about artifacts. nt

[onethatcares]

21. whatever he was doing it looks

like a perfectly good use of our tax dollars to me. The only thing missing are a few MRAPs .

[Autumn]

24. This should help the FBI

"The Millers' basement is a museum with lighted-glass showcases lining walls on three sides. Inside each case are artifacts neatly arrayed with printed notes on where the rare objects were found and their age."

It looks like to me they pretty well documented much of it on their own. I think this story is a little stinky.

[uppityperson]

25. Why did you write Indian in lower case and in quotes? And it goes way beyond "just some

'indian' artifacts and coins".

The monetary value of the items and relics has not been determined, Jones said, but the cultural value is beyond measure. In addition to American Indian objects, the collection includes items from China, Russia, Peru, Haiti, Australia and New Guinea, he said.

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. Bennett Brauer

[rusty fender]

27. "30 years or never"

Really? There are a finite # of artifacts in this guy's house. The FBI will eventually have them all catalogued. "Never"

[riverwalker]

28. lots of rumors going around

found this (Warning, looks to be right wing website, saw a link to Malkin) nonetheless, interesting.......

http://advanceindiana.blogspot.com/2014/04/seriously-fbi-devoted-massive-resources.html

Miller was an electrical genius and developed communications hardware for the MIR space station. Had a huge hand in training cosmonauts in how to use it. He was heavily involved in very high tech ham equipment and networks particularly in Russia.

The old man had a lot of things the state department wanted but illegal artifacts isn't one of them. You can rest assured that Don Miller will not say a word about anything. How would it look for a true American WWII patriot to be outed working with the Russians, even if at the time it was completely legal to do so.

Dr. Don Miller, Hank Cantrell, and Farrell Winder developed and tested the MIR SSTV System.

http://www.marexmg.org/fileshtml/team.html

[riverwalker]

29. now my head hurts

Dr. Don Miller, holds a P.H.D in electrical engineering, is the brother of Dr. Stanley Miller world reknowned Chemical Physicist.. Don Miller operated under the company name Wyman Research, he created transponders used by NASA in the space stations

Most recently Dr Miller developed the technology to locate any transmitter through triangulation after the beacon has failed. This technology would be very useful say if an airplane went down and was unable to be located.

http://thisbluemarble.com/showthread.php?t=57456

[AngryAmish]

32. ok, I was outraged...

I thought this was a redux of Kinnewick Man where the government got together with a bunch of religious nutters to hinder science.

But this is getting interesting...

[mainer]

33. This is worth following. Doesn't sound like just artifacts.

Those tents? Is that for biological weapons containment? Yep, getting interesting.