If the flood of H1B workers doesn't stop, why encourage Americans to study science & engineering?

[reformist2]

It's not like they can expect stable employment anymore, as business & industry *used* to promise. So what motivation is there now to study these very difficult subjects??? That it makes them better, more informed citizens???

[pnwmom]

1. To help keep the salaries low for the flood of H1B workers.

[Jesus Malverde]

6. LOL Thread win....nt

[IronLionZion]

21. I wonder how many Americans are willing to put up with H1B working conditions?

like the same hours, same wages, and same utter lack of job security that H1B visa holders have. Much of the consulting/contracting work operates like a temp agency. Someone may work somewhere for a few months and get sent to another city or even get laid off. Our "job creators" think it's more "efficient" to hire temporary contract workers instead of full time permanent employees.

When an American gets laid off, there are some options. When a visa holder gets laid off, they really need to get another position that will sponsor their visa ASAP or be deported. That desperation encourages lower wages and lying on resumes.

[pnwmom]

22. That is the point. They aren't supposed to under-pay H1B workers.

The law requires that they pay H1B workers the prevailing wage. The fact that they skirt the law shouldn't be used in arguments against American workers.

But lots of American high tech workers work long hours and work under contract. And no one has any job security any more.

[LiberalEsto]

2. Why? So they will run up huge student loans

and become members of the permanent debtor underclass.

[djean111]

3. Exactly what I was thinking.

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. We don't encourage it. It's a head-fake; an excuse to lobby for more worker visas.

People on student visas represent 57% of all STEM graduate students. It's more profitable for colleges to educate people who pay nonresident tuition.

Every american is competing for those 43% of slots.

[cascadiance]

15. This is part of the scam... Students from India have had their bachelor degrees PAID FOR!

Unlike American students, who have to pay gratuitous fees to get a college education in STEM (where their jobs will likely be outsourced if they try to enter a tech field anyway) just for a bachelor's degree, India (and many other countries like it that provide many H-1B workers) SUBSIDIZES their bachelor degree educations, so that most of their kids who have choices to work in India or in America only have to decide, if they are a part of the wealthier class or not, on whether they want to pursue a graduate degree in STEM to further their qualifications. I've talked to another Indian worker where I used to work who notes this and that though most Indian colleges are perceived lower status in terms of offering bachelors degrees compared to American schools offering such, it is still better than Americans who have no college educations at all because they can't afford it. Many Indian students that can afford it use the opportunity to make up for that perceived education quality difference by pursuing post-graduate degrees here after getting undergrad degrees in India for free.

A better study might look at how much more foreign students pursue graduate degrees here than American students and compare it to the amount of foreign students here to get bachelor's degrees versus American students.

[hedgehog]

19. Americans with bachelor degrees tend to have a big student loan debt,

and industry rarely demands or pays for a Master's or PhD; so most American students opt to get a job ASAP upon graduation.

The upshot? More and more advanced degrees go to foreign students who often become immigrants (so educating foreign students here can result in a brain drain there). Because STEM graduate schools are top heavy with foreign students, undergraduates often face classes led by Teaching Assistants who have very strong accents. Trying to clearly say "linearly dependent" vs. "linearly independent" is hard enough for a native speaker, but I never could tell which one the foreign TA was saying!

The other result is that fewer and fewer STEM faculty members are native born Americans.

[JDPriestly]

5. K&R.

[polichick]

7. Good question. Pres. Obama just encouraged kids to go into those fields. (Speech at a high school.)

[badtoworse]

8. I'm going to make my plug for the electric power industry

It's an industry dominated by old white guys who are retiring faster than they're being replaced. My recommendation for anyone looking at an engineering career would be electrical engineering with a focus on power.

[reformist2]

14. That's good to hear. I hope some Americans can get those jobs before they start handing out the H1Bs

[FSogol]

18. I'll second that. My company has never been able to keep enough electrical engineers on staff.

The computer boom caused too many electric engineers to enter the computer industry leaving the fields of power, lighting, and fire alarm design dangerously short handed.

[randome]

9. Why stay in America?

Americans need to get out more! IMO.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Orsino]

10. If we're not going to do science or engineering, why encourage study in those fields? n/t

[eppur_se_muova]

11. So they can seek jobs abroad ?

Seriously, if you have the chance to attend college, grad school, or a postdoc stint abroad, do it. It may be the only foot in the door you ever get.

[kenny blankenship]

12. Big money for diploma mill trade/community colleges and banks

Student loans are one leg of the new modernized slavery. Upside-down mortgages another. Creating debts out from under which the vast majority can never escape renders them powerless from cradle to grave. It's perfected rent extraction, like mandatory tithing to insurance cartels. And for the "incorrigible" there is incarceration in the for profit privatized system, where even "unemployable" men are turned into performing assets for capitalist enterprise, while providing the invaluable service of keeping the rest of the working population terrified.

[closeupready]

13. +1. Makes no sense, does it. Particularly in light of the cost of degrees

in those fields of study.

Rather, we should all aspire to be overpaid, pretty newsreaders for conservative cable news networks.

[hatrack]

16. More testing and assessments and elbow room for charter schools in sciences than humanities

That way, even if schools and parents and taxpayers begin to tire of Testapalooza (assessment tests for kindergartners? Seriously?), The Very Wise People In Charge can keep on thumping the tub about our critical shortfalls in STEM, and the need for more testing, and more assessment, and more rigorous schools.

[blueamy66]

17. I used to work for a gentleman from India.

He would hire many engineers from India. Our company would pay the bill for all of the legal proceedings necessary for them to work in the US. And many times, pay the bill for other immigration services.

Then, to a fault, they would go back to India for a month to get married and bring their wives back here.

Then, to a fault, they would leave our company to go to a better paying job.

I have nothing against Indian people....I loved working with them, hanging out with them, learning their culture and eating their awesome food.

Just an anecdote, I guess...

[hedgehog]

20. Not to hi-jack the thead, but there is also this:

"an illegal agreement between seven tech giants, including Apple, Google, and Intel, to suppress wages for tens of thousands of tech employees. The agreement prompted a Department of Justice investigation, resulting in a settlement in which the companies agreed to curb their restricting hiring deals. The same companies were then hit with a civil suit by employees affected by the agreements."

"court documents (embedded below) which show shocking evidence of a much larger conspiracy, reaching far beyond Silicon Valley."

http://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage-fixing-cartel-involved-dozens-more-companies-over-one-million-employees/