Growing Up Unvaccinated

[ashling]

I had the healthiest childhood imaginable. And yet I was sick all the time.

f you think your child’s immune system is strong enough to fight off vaccine-preventable diseases, then it’s strong enough to fight off the tiny amounts of dead or weakened pathogens present in any of the vaccines.

But not everyone around you is that strong, not everyone has a choice, not everyone can fight those illnesses, and not everyone can be vaccinated. If you have a healthy child, then your healthy child can cope with vaccines and can care about those unhealthy children who can’t.

I would ask the anti-vaxxers to treat their children with compassion and a sense of responsibility for those around them. I would ask them not to teach their children to be self-serving and scared of the world in which they live and the people around them. (And teach them to love people with autism spectrum disorder or any other disability supposedly associated with vaccines—not to label them as damaged.)

[Warpy]

1. I dealt with a lot of high functioning autistic people at MIT

when I worked there. I find them oddly restful, I don't have to keep a plastic smile on my face, if I'm in a bad mood I can look like it and they won't pick up on it unless I tell them. I remember a lot of them very fondly as brilliant and witty people who were working on cutting edge projects but who couldn't (in at least one case) get it together to order a pizza.

The truth is that we don't know what causes autism. We do know that it happens while the fetus is developing.

I would suggest anti vaxers visit old New England graveyards some day. They will see one man surrounded by his three to five wives and dozens of tiny headstones for the children who didn't make it to the age of five.

Those tiny headstones are what vaccines prevent from happening.

Don't cling to belief that springs from medical ignorance. Vaccinate your children, keep them safe.

[pnwmom]

5. Unfortunately, not all autistic people are high functioning.

If there are factors in the environment that are increasing the numbers of autistic people, I think we should be concerned, just as if we were having increasing numbers of blind people or deaf people.

[truedelphi]

2. You' re leaving out several points, in an emotional and rhetorical call for being

All pro-vaccines, all the time.

First of all, as a parent I saw that my child was vaccinated for those diseases where the vaccine offered had a sound and highly qualified benefit to risk ratio. For instance, polio vaccine. The risk of getting polio if no one continues to vaccinate is going to be a high one.

Where I started drawing the line is when I examined situations like this:

Mandatory Hep Vaccine, a totally risky procedure that is forced onto the hospital delivered new born infant on day one. Its risk to benefit? Well the benefits for 98.9% opf all kids is zero.

Hep is after all, a disease that occurs if you have multiple sex partners, practice unsafe sex, or share needles is something mostly adults get. I have yet to meet a newborn that indulges in any of those activities. The risk to infants who are among that 98.9% is tremendous. Paralysis, migraines, gastro- intestinal problems, swollen brain followed by death, etc. When Michael Belkin, a world class statistician began examining the risk to benefit situation of Hep Vaccine, he found out that the risk of injury to those newborns and infants was greater via the vaccine than if the babies never received the vaccine.

For the other 1.2% of infants whose parents might have hepatitis, then a blood culture can be utilized to show if the mother is infected while said baby is in utero. If mom is infected, then the vaccine might be a most important and valid situation.

Then there is the immense and totally significant problem regarding the laboratories where vaccines are manufactured:


When the San Francisco Chronicle sent reporters into the Big Laboratories of Big Pharma, back circa 1999 or 2000, they were intending on having that reporter offer the public a reassuring view of an industry. The Chron editor expected their reporters to discover nice clean labs with inspectors who show up unannounced and that thoroughly examine the protocols and lab set ups of said laboratories.

Instead the reporter found that there were numerous violations in terms of cleanliness and sterility of vaccine material. Decent vaccine scientists have resigned over the fact that the labs are such a mess. Bacteria and viral material unrelated to the specs of vaccines are found inside these labs, on the counter tops and worst of all, end up inside the vaccination fluids.

The reporters also found up that there are far too few inspectors hired by the government for the huge task of examining the many vaccination labs. And remember, this was at the end of the Clinton era. So you can only imagine over the eyars, the cuts that the Bush government saw fit to deliver so that the Big Pharma people didn't have to worry about regulators and their time consuming regulations.

The reporters found out that any and all examinations of the vaccine laboratories were announced events. With weeks given for the labs to comply, but the labs still often were cited for violations!


The Chronicle was so horrified by what the reporters found that they expanded the series to run for several days rather than just one.
####

[progressoid]

3. Hep A is not only transmitted sexually.

Each year, more than 180,000 children and adults are infected with this virus, making it the sixth most commonly reported infectious disease in the United States.1,2 In 1999, public health costs for hepatitis A control and management exceeded $500 million.3 There is no treatment for hepatitis A disease, but prevention is available with immunization. The American Liver Foundation endorses the position of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) that routine childhood vaccination is the most effective way to reduce hepatitis A.

http://www.liverfoundation.org/about/advocacy/hepapolicy/

The American Liver Foundation recognizes other groups for which HAV infection may pose a special risk. These include groups historically associated with common source outbreaks and persons with regular or increased risk for exposure to fecal material:

- Food handlers17

- Military personnel18

- Day care personnel and children attending day care, as well as their parents, siblings and close contacts19

- Health care workers20

- Staff of institutions for the developmentally disabled21

- Consumers of certain high risk foods (e.g. raw shellfish)22

The hepatitis A virus is found in the stool of an infected person. It is spread when a person eats food or drinks water that has come in contact with infected stool.

Sometimes a group of people who eat at the same restaurant can get hepatitis A. This can happen when an employee with hepatitis A doesn't wash his or her hands well after using the bathroom and then prepares food. It can also happen when a food item is contaminated by raw sewage or by an infected garden worker.

The disease can also spread in day care centers. Children, especially those in diapers, may get stool on their hands and then touch objects that other children put into their mouths. And workers can spread the virus if they don't wash their hands well after changing a diaper.

http://www.webmd.com/hepatitis/hepa-guide/hepatitis-a-topic-overview

[truedelphi]

4. Regardless of the stats you cite - there is no reason to give it to a day old child.

Originally it was going to be scheduled to be given to twelve year old children. But industry quickly realized that it was too dangerous to their profit margin to handle the delivery of the vaccine that way.

There are many sources of proof of a child's inherent health if a vaccine causes harm when it is given to a twelve year old. For instance if a 12 year old is paralyzed, or has migraines or other problems then the parents have the videos of the kid blowing out the birthday candles for twelve years, of being in the school music recital, of being on the soccer team. But this way, with a vaccine foisted on a newborn, the parents whose baby is afflicted can simply be told, well, your baby was defective in utero, so it's the parents' genetic problem, the industry official will state, and not ours.

One other thing to point out - the vaccine itself causes highly incidence of hepatitis to people who come into contact with those who are vaccinated. This is why many health workers refused to get the hep vaccine a few years back - they knew that it was dangerous for them to be among babies, and children, cancer patients and the elderly after being newly vaccinated.

[progressoid]

6. Day old children don't receive Hep A vaccines

It is started at 12 months. Effectively, I might add.



Hepatitis A rates in the United States have declined by 95% since Hepatitis A vaccine first became available in 1995.

In 2010, 1,670 acute symptomatic cases of Hepatitis A were reported; the incidence was 0.6/100,000, the lowest rate ever recorded. After adjusting for asymptomatic infection and underreporting, the estimated number of new infections was 17,000.

[pnwmom]

11. No, but they ARE given hepatitis B vaccines before they leave the hospital.

My son had his before he was 24 hours old. And Hep B is only spread like HIV, through bodily fluids. The vaccine isn't really necessary at that age for most babies. It's just given then so the doctor won't have to do it later.

http://www2.aap.org/immunization/illnesses/hepb/hepb.html

[progressoid]

12. My daughters were as well.

And thankfully so. It is most effective when started as a baby.

Most healthy adults (90%) who are infected will recover and develop protective antibodies against future hepatitis B infections. A small number (5-10%) will be unable to get rid of the virus and will develop chronic infections. Unfortunately, this is not true for infants and young children – 90% of infants and up to 50% of young children infected with hepatitis B will develop chronic infections. Therefore, vaccination is essential to protect infants and children.

Hepatitis B is 100 times more infectious than the AIDS virus, yet it can be prevented with a safe and effective vaccine.

In the United States

12 million Americans have been infected (1 out of 20 people).
More than one million people are chronically infected .
Up to 40,000 new people will become infected each year.
5,000 people will die each year from hepatitis B and its complications.
Approximately 1 health care worker dies each day from hepatitis B.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hepb/fs-parents.html
http://www.hepb.org/hepb/transmission.htm

Hep B drops as vaccinations start in 1986

[pnwmom]

20. Yes. But there is zero evidence that it is more effective at 1 day old than at 1 month old,

for those babies whose mothers are not infected.

[progressoid]

27. So now you'll post the tons of evidence that waiting is a good idea.

[pnwmom]

28. The burden is on the mandator to provide the evidence,

not on the person who would rather wait till an infant's immune system is stronger.

This is not a disease that can be spread casually, like the flu. No one else is at risk if the parents and their doctor decide to delay the vaccination till the baby is stronger.

My third child was vaccinated as a newborn in the hospital, and the medical establishment at that point did not recommend that my older children receive the vaccination . We were told that our older children were at little risk and that they should wait till they were about 10 and closer to the age of being sexually active.

The methods of contagion and the risks haven't changed since 1991, when newborns began to be vaccinated, but not their older siblings. The only reason they start the vaccines in the hospital now is to "get" the children while they can -- but it only begins the process. They still have to "get" the children for the follow-up vaccines. It really doesn't matter whether they start at 1 day or 1 month.

[mainer]

13. Not true. Infection happens often during childhood.

Not necessarily through sex or needles.

The severe pathological consequences of persistent HBV infections include the development of chronic hepatic insufficiency, cirrhosis, and hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC). In addition, HBV carriers can transmit the disease for many years.10, 23, 30, 31

Infection occurs very often in early childhood when it is asymptomatic and often leads to the chronic carrier state.

More than 2 000 million people alive today have been infected with HBV at some time in their lives. Of these, about 350 million remain infected chronically and become carriers of the virus.6, 15, 23, 38, 51 Three quarters of the world’s population live in areas where there are high levels of infection.

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/hepatitis/whocdscsrlyo20022/en/index1.html

[pnwmom]

16. Not in the US they don't. The 3/4 of the world's population that passage refers to

doesn't include the US. In those countries, many babies are at risk of getting Hep B from there mothers. Not here.

Most US babies would not be harmed at all if they waited a month or two before giving the first dose of Hep B vaccination.

[mainer]

17. And of course those 3/4 of the world's population never come to the US

because there's a hepatitis wall that keeps them out of our country.

Having worked in medicine, I'm well aware that there are no barriers to infections between borders.

Hepatitis B is already here. Based on antibody status, 12% of American Blacks and "other than whites" have been exposed to it! And the rate of infection among children is going down BECAUSE of vaccination:

J Infect Dis. 2010 Jul 15;202(2):192-201. doi: 10.1086/653622.
The prevalence of hepatitis B virus infection in the United States in the era of vaccination.
Wasley A1, Kruszon-Moran D, Kuhnert W, Simard EP, Finelli L, McQuillan G, Bell B.
Author information

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Our objective was to assess trends in the prevalence of hepatitis B virus (HBV) infection in the United States after widespread hepatitis B vaccination.
METHODS:
The prevalence of HBV infection and immunity was determined in a representative sample of the US population for the periods 1999-2006 and 1988-1994. National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys participants 6 years of age were tested for antibody to hepatitis B core antigen (anti-HBc), hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg), and antibody to hepatitis B surface antigen (anti-HBs). Prevalence estimates were weighted and age-adjusted.
RESULTS:
During the period 1999-2006, age-adjusted prevalences of anti-HBc (4.7%) and HBsAg (0.27%) were not statistically different from what they were during 1988-1994 (5.4% and 0.38%, respectively). The prevalence of anti-HBc decreased among persons 6-19 years of age (from 1.9% to 0.6%; P < .01) and 20-49 years of age (from 5.9% to 4.6%; P < .01) but not among persons 50 years of age (7.2% vs 7.7%). During 1999-2006, the prevalence of anti-HBc was higher among non-Hispanic blacks (12.2%) and persons of "Other" race (13.3%) than it was among non-Hispanic whites (2.8%) or Mexican Americans (2.9%), and it was higher among foreign-born participants (12.2%) than it was among US-born participants (3.5%). Prevalence among US-born children 6-19 years of age (0.5%) did not differ by race or ethnicity. Disparities between US-born and foreign-born children were smaller during 1999-1996 (0.5% vs 2.0%) than during 1988-1994 (1.0% vs 12.8%). Among children 6-19 years of age, 56.7% had markers of vaccine-induced immunity.
CONCLUSIONS:
HBV prevalence decreased among US children, which reflected the impact of global and domestic vaccination, but it changed little among adults, and approximately 730,000 US residents (95% confidence interval, 550,000-940,000) are chronically infected.

[pnwmom]

18. There is still a negligible risk for US newborns whose mothers aren't infected,

Last edited Tue Apr 8, 2014, 04:58 PM - Edit history (3)

and whether a mother is infected is determined during pregnancy -- and those infants with infected mothers get a different protocol.

You have shown me nothing indicating a U.S. newborn of non-infected parents should receive the vaccine instead of receiving it as a one month old. What I have read is that this is the recommendation simply to increase the likelihood that babies will get all their shots.

And that fits with personal experience. The Hep B vaccine hasn't always been given to newborns in the hospital. It started just before my youngest was born. He had the vaccine in the hospital, but the doctors were completely unworried about the fact that his two older siblings hadn't had the vaccine -- because the virus is transmitted through bodily fluids, like HIV, and there was little to worry about until they were old enough to be sexually active. They ended up getting the vaccine at about age 10, which was the standard recommendation back then.

I'm not suggesting we should go back to older ages of children, but I have seen nothing except compliance issues cited as a reason to give universal Hep B in the hospital instead of a month or so later.

The baby below, who was given the vaccine in the hospital even though his immune system was compromised from a recent infection, had a rare fatal allergic reaction. This might not have happened if the doctors had adjusted the standard vaccine schedule to account for his individual circumstances. We will never know for certain whether he might be alive today if they had delayed this vaccine till he was stronger – but there is no reason they couldn’t have waited a few more weeks before giving him the Hep B vaccine. If I had a fragile baby about to leave the hospital, I would choose to wait, knowing that the risk of a baby in my home being exposed to Hep B in the first months of life is very small.

(When you are the parent who has lost a child, it doesn't help to be told you're the one in a million.)

http://www.iansvoice.org

Ian received his shot. By that evening his fatal allergic reaction had begun. Every doctor and nurse at St. Joe’s conveyed the very same message: Ian’s reaction could absolutely not be from the vaccine. “Vaccines cannot cause this.” “Mom, all babies get rashes and the vaccination cannot cause a rash of this nature.”

Now, if we would have been provided the Vaccine Information Sheet (VIS) dated 7/11/01 as law requires, we would have known that “serious allergic reaction (very rare)” to the vaccine is possible. Incredibly, during the short time between Ian’s birth and death, a new VIS for the hepatitis B vaccine was released on 7/18/07 for the first time in seven years that better clarifies that “Severe problems are extremely rare. Severe allergic reactions are believed to occur about once in 1.1 million doses. A vaccine, like any medicine, could cause a serious reaction. But the risk of a vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.”

Shouldn’t the doctors and nurses at St. Joe’s be aware that even the CDC’s vaccine information sheet advises severe allergic reaction to the hepatitis B vaccine are possible? If they are not, then how can they know to consider the vaccine as a possible cause when there is a reaction? Is it really possible that that not one doctor or nurse who saw our son knew what is clearly indicated on the vaccine information sheet? My son proved to us that a reaction to the hepatitis B vaccine can happen. Since that time, we have learned that it happens more often than is reported.

The VIS indicates that if a child has an adverse reaction parents should, “Ask your doctor, nurse, or health department to report the reaction by filing a Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) form.” The VIS implies that it is the parent’s job to ask their healthcare provider to report the reaction. This may be due to the fact that it is common knowledge that where parents do not specifically push for the severe reactions to be reported, the reports are largely unmade. Shouldn’t it be automatic that medical professionals report adverse reactions? How is it otherwise possible that reporting from VAERS would even come close to representing accurate numbers? One of Ian’s neonatologists at Children’s Hospital of Wisconsin did report Ian’s case to VAERS. She also wanted to document Ian’s life in a case study for the Journal of American Academy of Pediatrics. Children’s Hospital prohibited her from doing this.

SNIP

[pnwmom]

21. Not during the period between 1 day and one month.

Please show me a single study showing that infection in the US is common in early infancy, for babies in families where neither parent is infected.

[mainer]

22. Yes, if mom knows her negative HepB status, and her partner's...

and the HepB status of everyone in the household or neighborhood who will be in contact with the baby, then baby will probably be fine without vaccine. If Mom can control the baby's future contacts and playmates and sexual partners and travel, then baby will probably never get Hep B.

But that's in an ideal world.

In the real world, women give birth in hospitals without prenatal care or any idea of their Hep B status. Or they leave with baby, who never comes back for followup checks, or doctor forgets to give HepB vaccine at 1 month or 1 year. Or baby is exposed to boyfriend who is chronic HepB carrier and leaves toothbrush where baby gets it. Antibody studies show that 12 - 13% of American non-white adults have been exposed to Hep B, so exposure is not merely an abstract possibility.

The CDC has to work with real world situations. Which is why it recommends vaccine is given before baby leaves hospital, to ensure that that baby is protected, whatever its living situation.

Having worked in the real world, with real patients, I know how easy it is for baby to slip through the cracks, until it shows up years later as a chronic Hep B carrier.

[pnwmom]

23. The hospital knows the status of the mother, because there is a different protocol

when the mother is infected -- so they test for the mother's status before the birth.

And Hep B is NOT spread casually, so there is no more reason to test for the status of everyone in the neighborhood who will be in contact with the baby than there is to test for HIV status. Are you also recommending that anyone without a negative HIV test be kept away from babies? That every father and grandparents and neighbor be tested for HIV?

[mainer]

24. Hep B can be passed by toothbrushes.

from CDC:
How is Hepatitis B spread?
Hepatitis B is spread when blood, semen, or other body fluid infected with the Hepatitis B virus enters the body of a person who is not infected. People can become infected with the virus during activities such as:
Birth (spread from an infected mother to her baby during birth)
Sex with an infected partner
Sharing needles, syringes, or other drug-injection equipment
Sharing items such as razors or toothbrushes with an infected person
Direct contact with the blood or open sores of an infected person
Exposure to blood from needlesticks or other sharp instruments

If another child in the neighborhood is playing with baby, yes, it can be spread through open cuts.
Is it hard to transmit? No. How else do you explain a 12-13% antibody rate in American nonwhites, indicative of exposure? How else do you explain the high prevalence rate in third world countries? If it's so hard to catch, why is it such a widespread problem among children in Asia?

As I said, MANY MOTHERS DO NOT GET PRENATAL CARE. They do not know their Hep B status. This is why CDC feels it's safer to vaccinate early.

I don't know what else to say except to keep referring to CDC and WHO. No one has to listen to advice. Even when it comes from infectious disease experts.

[pnwmom]

26. So can HIV. And no one's using toothbrushes on a toothless newborn.

Or even a toothless one month old.

It's no easier to transmit than HIV. And THE HOSPITAL tests for the mother's Hep B status, if she doesn't have a doctor who already it.

You still have not shown me a single study showing that it is more safe and effective to give a one day old baby the vaccine than a one month old baby. And a single vaccine isn't effective, so vaccinating them in the hospital doesn't mean they won't have to be vaccinated when they're older.

[mainer]

29. OK, CDC and WHO are merely ignorant fools.

and you know better than they do.

I really don't need to argue this point with you. As an MD, I've seen too many patients die from HepB-caused cirrhosis. Watch one person die from esophageal varices, vomiting blood, and you'll never think of Hep B as a minor illness again. All I know is, I'm glad the vaccine is there to protect my children and grandchildren, and that it's having an impact on the prevalence of infections in the US.

CDC:

Hepatitis B

National studies have shown that about 12.5 million Americans have been infected with hepatitis B virus at some point in their lifetime. One and one quarter million Americans are estimated to have chronic (long-lasting) infection, of whom 20 percent to 30 percent acquired their infection in childhood. Chronic hepatitis B virus infection increases a person's risk for chronic liver disease, cirrhosis, and liver cancer. About 5,000 persons will die each year from hepatitis B-related liver disease resulting in over $700 million in medical and work loss costs.
The number of new infections per year has declined from an average of 450,000 in the 1980s to about 80,000 in 1999. The greatest decline has occurred among children and adolescents due to routine hepatitis B vaccination.
Infants and children who become infected with hepatitis B virus are at highest risk of developing lifelong infection, which often leads to death from liver disease (cirrhosis) and liver cancer. Approximately 25 percent of children who become infected with life-long hepatitis B virus would be expected to die of related liver disease as adults.
CDC estimates that one-third of the life-long hepatitis B virus infections in the United States resulted from infections occurring in infants and young children. About 16,000 - 20,000 hepatitis B antigen infected women give birth each year in the United States. It is estimated that 12,000 children born to hepatitis B virus infected mothers were infected each year before implementation of infant immunization programs. In addition, approximately 33,000 children (10 years of age and younger) of mothers who are not infected with hepatitis B virus were infected each year before routine recommendation of childhood hepatitis B vaccination.

[pnwmom]

30. A well-meaning M.D. gave my healthy, six month old sister the old DPT vaccine.

Last edited Tue Apr 8, 2014, 11:17 PM - Edit history (1)

Twelve hours later she went into seizures and died.

Forgive me for not worshipping at your feet.

My children were almost fully vaccinated. But when my 2 month old son also developed seizures after a DPT, my mother told me about my sister, and also told me that one of her own cousins died after getting the shot, and another cousin was permanently paralyzed. Their parents were told it must be a "bad batch" of the vaccine. This was the first I heard about how my baby sister had actually died. (I was only 3 at the time.) Then one of my son's cousins had the vaccine and her fever went over 105, which automatically excluded her from further vaccinations, according to the CDC criteria.

Fortunately, we moved and I had a different doctor by the time my son needed his 2nd DPT, and she said absolutely not. And so did the other cousins' pediatricians, once they heard about my sister, the two cousins of my mother, and the two cousins in the youngest generation.

I'm not anti-vaccine. I'm pro safe vaccines. And one thing that bothers me greatly is that doctors aren't required to submit adverse effects reports if they decide, in their wisdom, that the vaccine didn't cause the reaction. When my son had his seizures (despite a fever of only 102), and had intermittent screaming-crying and a fever for a week (but never non-stop screaming for the 3 hour period required by the CDC), my then doctor said it couldn't be the vaccine, because the vaccine "doesn't do that." Well, if doctors don't submit adverse effects reports, how will the CDC or the FDA ever know that some of these unusual responses are vaccine related? They won't be able to spot patterns if doctors won't send the reports in. Unfortunately, my doctor also didn't tell me that I could submit a form myself. This was in the very early days of the Internet -- pre-Google -- so I couldn't find this out this information on a government website.

And yet, despite everything, I had an adult DPT vaccine last year to protect my granddaughter. I'm not against vaccines. I just don't take for granted their safety. Each one has to be judged on its own merits.

[Liberal Veteran]

7. Wait. What?

"the vaccine itself causes highly incidence of hepatitis to people who come into contact with those who are vaccinated."

Do you have any evidence of that or is that just some piece of information you gleaned from the inerrant internet?

Further, health care workers are about as susceptible to woo as anyone. I've known many a health care worker in my day who told me something that astoundingly foolish in an otherwise educated person. (Such as a pharmacist who told me he had a friend that cure AIDS with herbs and cancer could be cured with red clover and diet or another who extolled the benefits of ear candling.)

[chrisa]

9. Mmm-hmm

[truedelphi]

19. Both hepatitis and whooping cough vaccines are known causal agent of the diseases in people

Who come in contact with those who have been vaccinated.

So far I don't know of any yet published studies on Hep vaccine re: cross contamination.

The studies probably exist, as hospital personnel in droves refused the vaccine, and some nurses went on to take their Hospital Admins to court, so I imagine they would not bother going to court unless they ahad in their possession some type of acceptable "in the eyes of the court document" to support their decision.

Also over the last eighteen months there has been quite a stir because of studies released showing that whooping cough is more prevalent than ever on account of vaccinations spreading the disease that the vaccine is supposed to prevent.

Here is a report about how the vaccine itself is causing the disease to spread:

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cold-flu/whooping-cough-vaccine-may-not-halt-spread-illness-f2D11655363

I also have the actual links to actual peer reviewed studies, regarding this, but don't have time to search for them on the HSD.

[Liberal Veteran]

25. Say what? So I get a hepatitis or pertussis vaccination....

...and I'll get hepatitis or pertussis from someone who has been vaccinated for the same thing?

Or are you trying to say that people who are vaccinated for hepatitis and pertussis can infect unvaccinated people with hepatitis or pertussis?

Either way, it is nonsense. Hep A uses killed/inactivated virus so the only way that could ever happen is the very extremely unlikely event that a batch gets through with live virus (in which case, you'd probably get yourself).

Hep B and pertussis vaccines are subunit/conjugate vaccines which don't even contain whole virus/bacteria, just specific proteins to create antibodies that are active against those pathogens. Getting the actual illness from these types of vaccines would be about as likely getting a key lime pie from a stick of butter and nothing else.

[mainer]

15. I assume you are talking about Hepatitis B, and not Hepatitis A

The consequences of coming down with Hep A are fairly minor.

The consequences of Hep B are far, far more serious. It's the Hep B vaccine that's given to infants.

Having worked in medicine, caring for many immigrants from Asia, I saw numerous adults with chronic Hep B, which is common in Asian countries. As carriers, more than a few of them had cirrhosis or hepatic cancers -- related to their chronic carrier status. It is not a benign illness. These infections were not picked up through sex or through IV drug use; it was picked up during their childhoods.

High endemicity areas include south-east Asia and the Pacific Basin (excluding Japan, Australia, and New Zealand), sub-Saharan Africa, the Amazon Basin, parts of the Middle East, the central Asian Republics, and some countries in eastern Europe. In these areas, about 70 to 90% of the population becomes HBV-infected before the age of 40, and 8 to 20% of people are HBV carriers.15

In countries such as China, Senegal, and Thailand, infection rates are very high in infants, and continue through early childhood. At that stage the prevalence of HBsAg in serum may exceed 25%. In Panama, New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Greenland, and in populations such as Alaskan Indians, infection rates in infants are relatively low and increase rapidly during early childhood.15

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/hepatitis/whocdscsrlyo20022/en/index1.html

[gollygee]

14. Is there a link for this?

Although I feel like I might have already read the article. I at least read a pro-vaccine article by someone who wasn't vaccinated as a child.