Senator Dick Durbin 'not permitted to receive Holy Communion,' Bishop says

[theHandpuppet]

Thank you, Senator Durbin, for your support of choice and for women's equality!

http://www.catholic.org/news/national/story.php?id=54870
Senator Dick Durbin 'not permitted to receive Holy Communion,' Bishop says
By Catholic Online (NEWS CONSORTIUM)
4/8/2014
Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)

LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - In a recent letter to an Illinois pro-life activist, Bishop Paprocki said that "Senator Durbin was informed several years ago by his Pastor at Blessed Sacrament Parish here in Springfield that he was not permitted to receive Holy Communion per canon 915 of the Code of Canon Law. My predecessor upheld that decision and it remains in effect. It is my understanding that the Senator is complying with that decision here in the Diocese of Springfield in Illinois."

Durbin was pro-life earlier in his political career. In 1989, several years before he ran for the U.S. Senate in 1996, Durbin changed his position. He has since supported pro-abortion laws. Planned Parenthood and NARAL Pro-Choice America give Durbin a 100 percent rating while the National Right to Life Committee gives him a zero rating.

Durbin, the Senate Majority Whip, was honored with a "Lifetime Achievement Award" by Planned Parenthood Illinois Action at a Roe vs. Wade celebration in Chicago on January 23, 2014...

...In addition to disagreeing with his own Church on abortion, Durbin added, "I, for one, believe that women should be allowed to be priests." He also said he thinks priests should be allowed to marry. MORE

[n2doc]

1. Paging Pope Francis....Care to chime in? n/t

[hlthe2b]

2. Exactly... Time for the Pope to reign in his Bishops, Cardinals, Priests

[eallen]

20. Why do you presume the Pope disagrees? He's Catholic, too.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

51. I don't see any presumption there.

Asking the Pope to 'chime in' allows him to either agree or disagree. He might very well back up the bishop, but then again, he might not. He's been a change of pace from previous recent Popes in many ways.

[840high]

34. Why would a Catholic Pope

chime in?

[Bluenorthwest]

63. In Uganda his Bishops are attending public celebrations of the anti gay laws and

the corrupt Francis does not 'chime in' but instead nods along and offers both his tacit support and his lifelong record of anti gay rhetoric and activism.

[Hekate]

3. Does this only apply to his own parish, or can he receive holy communion elsewhere?

Such as in DC, where he mostly lives...

I don't know enough about canon law (ie practically nothing); for all I know this is excommunication in the classic sense. Regardless, it's got to be painful for a believer.

Senator Durbin, this woman thanks you for your good works.

[KamaAina]

5. Apparently it applies to the Diocese of Springfield

(D'oh! ) but not elsewhere, such as DC.

[roguevalley]

17. Durbin is only being excluded from a ritual, not God's love and approval

He's not missing out on anything.

[Hekate]

26. I'm aware of that...

...but rituals can play a meaningful part in many people's lives

[roguevalley]

50. they do. But if a dogma required me to change my core beliefs to conform I would

only miss that ritual a little. Very sad thing all around

[Major Nikon]

55. Evidently god doesn't approve per the guy with the funny hat and a red phone to Jebus

[roguevalley]

56. actually, Jesus would have sided with the rebel who cares more for people than ritual

that bishop is a fool. Jesus has nothing to do with him. People can say and do anything they want with someone. It happens all the time. Consider the Tea baggers appropriating Sam Adams, Tom Paine and Thomas Jefferson. They aren't any more responsible for that than Jesus is for that ass hat bishop

[Major Nikon]

58. I'm not down with the idea of an invisible sky daddy

But even if there were such a thing the idea that some people get to dictate what the almighty wants is not a very good one. I just see it as another instance of people using organized religion as a method of control, but then again that's why it was invented in the first place.

[roguevalley]

59. religious impulses have been documented back 200,000+ years. it is inherent

in the human psyche. Neanderthal people have the first recorded religious rituals known. No one was controlling anyone at the time. Anyone can have their opinion. I don't mind. In the end when we die it will all become clear. But saying that religion has was created and existed to control people is incorrect. That religion has been abused to do that is true. But it wasn't the original intention. People abuse everything. They abuse everyone.

[Major Nikon]

60. I don't agree that religion is inherent in the human psyche

People who have no knowledge of religion do not spontaneously invent it. I'm also well aware of the history of religion, which is why I qualified my statement by saying "organized" religion which most certainly was and is used to keep people in check. Man created god in his own image to explain what happens to the sun at night. It didn't take long before man figured out he could control others with nothing more than superstition. What better way to get men to march to their death with only the promise of reward in the afterlife which conveniently can't be verified? How else do you pacify people into slaving away their lives all the way to starvation at times without the false promise of reward after death? So was organized religion fostered for that purpose, or did it just conveniently work out that way? Government and organized religion were one in the same just about universally all the way to modern times and still is in some places. There are no shortage of those who would like to see that clock turned back here. It has nothing to do with abuse. It's simply using a tool for its intended purpose. Organized religion was created to control the masses and to that end has performed brilliantly and exactly as intended.

[roguevalley]

61. Okay. So you don't believe. I can live with it. Considering it is an impulse in humans

going back into time, I don't agree with your premise that it was designed to control people. People use it to control people just like they use everything else. You and I will disagree. That's okay.

[Major Nikon]

62. Organized religion predates written history

Last edited Fri Apr 11, 2014, 04:09 PM - Edit history (1)

So your guess is as good as mine as to why it came about, but it seems clear to me that the effect of organized religion is control of the masses and this manifests itself in all sorts of ways. Given the extent this happens I can't say it's like everything else, especially since when someone pretends to speak for god there is no higher authority in which one can appeal.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

7. I believe this only applies to the Diocese of Springfield

It covers the middle of the state, so I assume Durbin can take communion elsewhere. He could probably take communion in the Diocese, if there was a priest who wanted to defy the Bishop. It could be the Durbin voluntarily complies to avoid landing a friendly priest in hot water.

[theHandpuppet]

46. Bishop Paprocki is a whackjob

This is the same Bishop who performed an exorcism of the whole state of Illinois because they approved gay marriage.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/23891467-460/bishop-paprocki-stages-exorcism-as-gay-marriage-becomes-law-be-gone-satan.html

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

4. Dear Sen. Durbin...

As an ordained member of the clergy in the Church of Universal Life (you can be one too - it's an online form), I would cordially invite you to swing by the house one of these Sundays. We always have wine on hand, and I'm sure we have Ritz crackers or some such thing in the pantry.

We can do communion until neither of us is able to walk.

....and thanks for being one of the good guys.

[blm]

6. These so-called 'Catholic' groups formed for pro-fascist political purposes and funded by Moonies

Scratch any of these far-right 'fundamentalist' religious groups and you'll find that most began with funding from a group of pro-fascist financiers like Rev Moon.

Falwell and the Left Behind series of books from Tim LaHaye? Rev Moon $$$$.

[ananda]

8. It's pro-choice.

..

[theHandpuppet]

9. Huh?

Was there something misleading in the OP?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

13. The body of the story uses the term "pro-abortion"

Probably because it is from the Catholic Times.

[theHandpuppet]

38. Um, okay.

I wasn't sure if the poster was responding to me or to the article. As for myself, I simply used the word "choice".

[wryter2000]

10. He's Episcopalian and doesn't know it. n/t

n/t

[Freddie]

30. And he'd be very welcome in the Lutheran (ELCA) church too. n/t

[tridim]

11. Religion sucks. nt

[HockeyMom]

12. Why aren't you going to Communion?

I refused to go to Communion as a teenager in Catholic school. I did it as sort of my own protest over much of their dogma. I didn't believe what they were telling me about birth control, abortion, divorce, gays, etc. This was 40 years ago. I sat there in the pew when the rest of the students went up to receive. I just told them that I didn't want to go and they had no right to ask me why.

For me that was just the beginning of the end of my association with the Catholic Church. When my husband and I have to attend a Mass for a wedding or funeral, we sit in the back of the church. Relatives look at us strangely, but we don't owe them an explanation either.

[Zorra]

47. I think I was maybe 6 or 7 yrs old when I first decided to never be mean and evil like them.

It was somewhere around my third or fourth beating by the nuns; I don't remember exactly when, it was a long time ago. But the clincher was when one of the boys in my class started crying at recess, and a nun put a baby bonnet on his head, and forced him to sit in a baby carriage with a baby bottle in his hand as he cried in thorough, miserable humiliation in front of the entire class, who were forced to stand in a line to witness this teachable moment through deliberate degradation in the neo-Roman arena of the recess yard.

I was lucky; because once I escaped from their mind control indoctrination program of daily brainwashing by repetition of slogans, humiliation, guilt, and brute force, they could no longer do anything to crush my spirit and scar me for life, no matter how hard they tried.

And they did try, really hard, early, and often, but they couldn't break me. I escaped their insanity for good when I was 12, and to this day, do periodic, ritual self examinations to see if there are any previously unrecognized poisons to root out that they may have planted in my innocent consciousness.

“Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness – and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we’re being brainwashed to believe.

The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling – their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.

Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them.

Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”

― Arundhati Roy

[dickthegrouch]

14. How is this separation of Church and State?

If the State can't make rules about establishments of religion, the church should have no sway on the people making those rules for the rest of us.

Use that letter as part of the evidence to force the IRS into a more compliant position with the second amendment.

[badtoworse]

16. That is BS. The Church isn't making any rules for the rest of us.

To receive Communion, you are expected to practice your faith and by supporting policies that run counter to Church doctrine, you are clearly not doing that. The Church is telling Durbin that he can't have it both ways. That has nothing to do with anyone else but him.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. A little strong response ...

don't you think? You are correct, of course; but a little over the top.

[badtoworse]

29. BS is a commonly used term on DU. To me, it's equal to "that's not true"

I thought the rest of my post was just factual.

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. Okay. eom.

[dickthegrouch]

22. By treating a powerful member differently from all the less powerful

The church is absolutely meddling in the affairs of State and doing its damndest (pun intended) to make rules for the rest of us.

When it excommunicates all pro-lifers and all condom users rather than just the powerful, I will begin to believe that it's not trying to influence affairs of State. But the Church can't have it both ways either, they need all those sheep to keep funding their palaces and lavish lifestyles. The business could not afford it.

[hueymahl]

27. The church has moral authority only

The state has the power of force. Two very very different situations. It may be trying to influence the state, but that has nothing to do with the constitutional protection of separation of church and state. That protection is one-way and restricts state actors only.

I don't disagree with your main point that the church should not meddle, but it weakens our argument when it is conflated with incorrect constitutional assertions.

[pangaia]

52. Morals are subjective.

"The" church has no moral authority.
Each individual has the authority to develop his/her own morals.

OK, I am ready for the wacking.

[hueymahl]

54. I think you missed my point

Last edited Fri Apr 11, 2014, 12:36 PM - Edit history (1)

I didn't mean to imply that they had they were morally correct. I only meant that they have only the right to attempt to persuade that their morality is correct. Vs the governments power to use physical force to impose government "morality", for lack of a better term.

The really interesting thing you said is "morals are subjective". THAT is a topic worthy of its own thread.

[pangaia]

57. I do agree with you.

I think I was replying to 'the entire' thread,; but picked your post as it jumped out as ...something significant...
When the whole idea of 'morals' comes up, I often am taken back to ideas I first came across many, many years ago; ideas I found in many practices.
I am sure you know.
I almost deleted my post because I didn't want to get into it all.

You caught me.

[Bluenorthwest]

64. But to make public this 'moral stance' toward an elected official is to exploit that official

as a device to intimidate other members of less power, in my view is it is a form of spiritual terrorism and as such very distant from morality or ethical propriety. It is in fact the abuse of a Sacrament as a device in a public and political agenda that is not about the 'body of Christ' but about other subjects. Sacramental acts are said to confer the very grace of God upon a person, to deny that grace in a theatrical manner over political disagreements is blasphemy on the part of the Bishop and the Church, which specializes in such wrongs, for example Bishops in Uganda are supporting the anti gay 'jail for life' laws while Francis is asking the world to forgive his rapist subordinates without any confession or atonement on the part of those who have done wrong. They themselves are soaked in horrible guilt, but still they judge and seek to punish others en mass and without any thought for right and wrong.
Moral authority? I see venal, corrupt and selfish hate mongers, bloated and remorseless villains. I see active opponents of equality, of justice, of decent treatment of women.
A slug has more moral authority than a Bishop of this fetid and apostate organization.

[badtoworse]

37. The Church's position is the same for everyone. Abortion runs counter to Church doctrine...

...and if you have an abortion, you cannot receive Communion until you are reconciled. The Church has no way of knowing what is in the minds of its members and what they have done in their private lives. Many Church members are hypocrites in this respect.

Durbin's situation is very different - he is high profile and his actions regarding abortion, etc. were done openly.

[smokey nj]

32. Politicians who support the death penalty get to have it both ways.

[rhett o rick]

15. I have asked a number of times, why is anyone a Catholic today? There are other religion choices. nm

[Arugula Latte]

43. For that matter, why is anyone religious today?

It's so painfully apparent that it's all bullshit and mythology mixed with the motives of control and money.

[ColesCountyDem]

18. If you want to switch churches, the American Baptist Convention would welcome you! n/t

[Dawson Leery]

19. There are so many better choices

than the Constantinian cult.

[Lefty Thinker]

23. Many in the Ecumenical Catholic Communion share the Senator's feelings

...and actually do ordain women. There is a community in Chicago. Most of the members of my community are former Roman Catholics, as am I.

[Roy Rolling]

24. So Durbin is a sinner?

I thought Christianity is based on the fact that all of us are sinners. If Durbin is fallen, shouldn't the church help him become more spiritual and not just lock him out?

I think it is said somewhere in the Bible that a doctor is needed among the sick and not among the healthy. So this Bishop only wants to preach to the non-sinners (if there is such a thing) and not preach to sinners? Sounds like he has his hat on too tight.

[Iliyah]

25. Yeah, but Holy Communion for priests who molest boys tho.

[smokey nj]

28. Ever notice how bishops never send these letters to

Catholic politicians who support the death penalty?

[theHandpuppet]

40. Or to those who oppose support and compassion for the poor

As long as a politician is homophobic and misogynic and despises the poor, everything's okey-dokey.

[NYC Liberal]

45. Because the catechism does not say the DP is ALWAYS wrong.

It only says it should be avoided when a non-lethal recourse is possible to protect people's safety, but that if the death penalty is the only practical way to do so then it is okay. So there is wiggle room for people to argue when it's "necessary".

However, it says EVERY abortion is wrong, period.

I didn't make this shit up; just explaining. I grew up Catholic so I've heard ALL the arguments and rationalizations.

[smokey nj]

48. I don't care what the catechism is. If I did, I'd still be Catholic.

It's a bullshit argument. Executions are NEVER the only recourse and they have absolutely nothing to do with safety. Also, they can deny Senator Durbin the sacrament without issuing a press release. This happens EVERY election season and all it is is Catholic Bishops indirectly endorsing the Republican party.

[Bluenorthwest]

65. It can't say it is always wrong because the Church itself was for centuries also

a State, and the Papal States executed lots of people for lots of civil crimes for hundreds and hundreds of years. The last official executioner for the Papal States was named Buggati, he retired in 1869 after he'd carried out 516 executions in his career, the longest of any who held that office. So the office of the Pope as head of a State has in history executed more people than the office of the Governor of Texas.
Additionally, capital punishment was legal in the Vatican City between 1929 and 1969 for cases of attacks on a Pope. It was never carried out, but it was Vatican law that execution was the proper punishment for even an attempt on a Pope's life.
The stance that the Church sees all life as hyper sacred was nurtured when they got into the anti choice game so heavily. Historically, the Church took lives for many crimes, for hundreds of years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_in_the_Papal_States

[Nuh Uh]

33. A cheap attempt to influence a vote in Congress

The Catholic Church has a right to express their contempt toward Dick Durbin in any way Canon Law dictates. But when they make a private matter public, it becomes a cheap attempt to influence the way he votes and they should be shouted down soundly for that.

[Nine]

39. +1. It's no one else's business who is permitted to take communion.

Will they also be revealing parishioners' private confessions?

[postulater]

35. Of the six children in my family who grew up Catholic, ZERO still are after fifty years.

That kind of crap is what is driving people away from that religion.

Lots of other crap too, of course.

[perdita9]

36. No pedophile priest has ever been excommunicated

The Catholic Church is seriously screwed up when it comes to priorities.

[DeSwiss]

41. That' a taxin'!

I mean you're obviously making a political decision not to ''forgive the sins'' of a sinner -- like I mean, [font size=3]that you're only damned job!!!! [/font] So it must mean you don't like that 'ol tax-exempt status cause you're dippin' your damned nose where it don't belong!

- So pay up sucker!!!

K&R

[Arugula Latte]

42. Why would he choose to continue to be in this evil institution?

Why support the corrupt, vile, women-and-gay-hating RCC?

[ZombieHorde]

44. Now the poor fellow

has to buy his own crackers and wine. Then he either needs find someone willing to cast spells on his crackers and wine for learn the spells himself. What a pain in the ass.

[stillwaiting]

49. Well that certainly is one way to get people to become single issue voters.

So fucking transparent.

Corrupt church is corrupt.

[PeteSelman]

53. Believe women are people? No ritualistic cannibalism for you!

Boo hoo. I'll bet he's all broken up over it.

[Bluenorthwest]

66. And yet child abusing priests are allowed to continue serving communion to others

They get to hold the cup and say 'body of Christ' and place something on the tongues of kneeling people.
In Uganda, the Bishops are dancing in the streets to celebrate the 'jail for life' laws against LGBT people.