For The Record: Snowden Gave Classified US Intel to the Chinese. It is a fact.

[arely staircase]

Ever since this first happened I have gotten the "oh yeah, prove it" response from the Snowdenistas whenever I mentioned it. I got tired of posting it for every low information (that didn't validate their point of view) DUr that claimed I was making shit up. Apparently I have only one more free visit to the paper's site and people are STILL going "oh yeah prove it." So instead of posting it individually for everyone who's google button broke off:

EXCLUSIVE: NSA targeted China's Tsinghua University in extensive hacking attacks, says Snowden

Tsinghua University, widely regarded as the mainland’s top education and research institute, was the target of extensive hacking by US spies this year
Tsinghua University in Beijing, widely regarded as the mainland’s top education and research institute, was the target of extensive hacking by US spies this year, according to information leaked by Edward Snowden.

It is not known how many times the prestigious university has been attacked by the NSA but details shown to the Post by Snowden reveal that one of the most recent breaches was this January.

The information also showed that the attacks on Tsinghua University were intensive and concerted efforts. In one single day of January, at least 63 computers and servers in Tsinghua University have been hacked by the NSA.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1266892/exclusive-nsa-targeted-chinas-tsinghua-university-extensive-hacking?page=all

There it is. Snowden went to China and gave a Chinese newspaper the individual servers the US is hacking in China.

[Tarheel_Dem]

1. Yes he did!

[arely staircase]

3. Someone in another thread actually said this wasn't legit because it is

supposedly a Murdoch paper. I shit you not. It probably is, but Snowden gave them an interview! I guess they just made up all those quotes and Snowden never called bullshit on them because you know...

[Tarheel_Dem]

41. They're peddling really hard these days because Comrade Snowie's approval sucks here.

And it continues to slide. The PR campaign, so far, is a BUST!

Huffpo: "Americans Might Not Support Edward Snowden, But They Support Disclosing Programs"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/01/edward-snowden-support_n_5071938.html

[BillZBubb]

127. Another Tail Gunner Joe fan I see.

Nothing liking labeling someone "Comrade" to attack your target. Joe McCarthy would be proud.

[elias7]

131. Comrade?

You know Russia is no longer a socialist state. Maybe you shouldn't date yourself.

[Tarheel_Dem]

163. Who the fuck knows what kind of state "The New Russia" is today?

[Ikonoklast]

200. Snowden should love it in modern Russia. Libertarian paradise.

If you get screwed by an Oligarch, it was your fault.

[billhicks76]

48. Dumbest Thread Ever

And pathetic comments too. How about focusing on the real traitors instead of sucking up to the human filth that spy on and blackmail their own people.

[840high]

72. ...^ that

[reACTIONary]

112. I live in the Washington, DC area...

... in fact, not that very far from Ft. Meade. Not less than a few of the so called "human filth" you degenerate are among my friends and neighbors. Although I don't work in signals intelligence, a few of the folks I work with have in the past or have family members who do.

They are not traitors. They are not blackmailers. And when they do spy on American citizens it is done in accordance with due process and for good reason.

[BillZBubb]

114. Your defense of the indefensible is laughable.

They are spying on Americans WITHOUT DUE PROCESS. The Snowden revelations clearly prove that. And the reasons the NSA put forth are NOT GOOD. They are BS.

[reACTIONary]

118. Reasonable people may disagree...

... in fact, I'd go so far as to say reasonable people WOULD disagree.

[GoneFishin]

141. Glad that you know some of the good guys. They are anecdotal though. Indefensible

activities are being paid for with our own tax dollars, and then lied about.

Glad to hear there are still some good, law abiding players though.

[reACTIONary]

144. The activites of the NSA...

... are all authorized by law and are conducted under oversight from all three branches of government. The are not indefensible, rather, they are indispensable.

They are, of course, largely secret activities and thus they cannot be talked about and disclosed in the same frank manner that other government activities are. But secrecy is necessary.

[GoneFishin]

154. Total nonsense. Been down that road. Agree to disagree. Good evening. nt

[billhicks76]

126. Not According To Russ Tice

Yes it's wrong of me to paint with such a broad brush, label an entire group or make such blanket statements. I've met good people in those agencies too. But there were also "good" people in the German government during the Nazi rise and many serial killers are quite polite. So what. The fact is many of these people have blood on their hands and feed a corrupt institution. Your arguments could be used to defend and deplorable government that spies on its own people. 911 was very effective in turning us into scared little sheep.

[reACTIONary]

135. The United States government...

... is not Nazi Germany and my friends, I assure you, are neither serial killers nor war criminals. Corrupt institutions are made up of corrupt individuals, and that does not describe the more than a few people I have known who have worked for the NSA.

My argument certainly could be used to defend our government's signals intelligent programs, including those aspects that occasionally are used against American citizens for legitimate security purposes.

I don't go so far, however, as to claim that they are all quite polite. On the contrary, several of them have been known to be rude!

[billhicks76]

138. Was Just Speaking Hyperbolically To Make A Point

There are good people there though...you are correct. Snowden was one of them. So is Russ Tice who was fairly high level and said he was mostly asked to tap our politicians, journalists and judges phones and email to build dossiers on them for "leverage" purposes which is a nice way of saying blackmail.

[reACTIONary]

152. Since you mentioned him twice...

... I pulled up the Russ Tice dossier. Looking it over, I was not impressed.

My opinion is that we should be careful about hyperbole on the inter-webz. It isn't always easy to recognize in that context, and there actually are people who will get carried away by it and end up believing it.

[BillZBubb]

113. Right on the MONEY!

The apologists for the Government Snooping State blame the messenger and ignore the message.

[reACTIONary]

128. Then again, some of them may be

... blaming the messenger FOR the message. He did, after all, undermine our national security.

[BillZBubb]

132. What a laugh.

Snowden didn't undermine our national security. He embarrassed the national security apparatus. Too bad the government didn't treat him as a whistleblower from the start and forced him to reside in foreign lands.

BTW, your name seems to perfectly fit your politics.

[reACTIONary]

143. Sez you...

... many others, some with the knowledge to asses the damage, would disagree. And have.

“Make no mistake: We are going to be dealing with the fallout from that for all of your careers, and the impact that that has had on our national security will reverberate for decades,” Michael Daniel, special assistant to the president for cyber security, told Naval Academy midshipmen. Snowden compromised sensitive “accesses” used by the National Security Agency to conduct electronic spying, along with “techniques and tools that are no longer available to us,” Daniel said, without elaborating.

BTW, my politics are liberal, democratic, and progressive. I just don't believe that democracy is a suicide pact.

[billhicks76]

129. Good Money In Defending NSA

Anyone need a job? NSA and military contractors are paying good money for online opinion "management". If you like to blog or comment online they are hiring. Paid for with your tax dollars.

[BillZBubb]

134. You may have a good point.

I have to admit I am stumped at how people on a supposedly liberal site could fight so hard to kill the messenger rather than deal with the message.

Maybe some are paid to do so.

[billhicks76]

137. New York Times and The New Yorker

They already write about it. There is a cyber war going on and it's all about opinion management and propaganda. Stratfor, Carlyle Group, KBR and BoozeAllen are major players and they are subcontracted with OUR tax dollars. These people are borderline evil.

[billhicks76]

142. Good Report On Bill Moyers

Discussing anonymous online commenting and how negative comments give readers polarizing opinions even if they have no idea of the facts of an article. It makes sense for those being written about or the power structures they enjoy to pay people to influence those articles with predetermined comments. Corporations do it all the time when there are articles about their products. The military, intelligence agencies and federal law enforcement use these methods...usually subcontracted and outsourced.

[jazzimov]

196. Are you implying something? nt

[billhicks76]

199. Not With You But Yes It Exists Here Too

It's much like the phony online, sock-puppet profiles that the New York Times and The New Yorker exposed. They are run by paid military contractor employees outsourced by such agencies as the US military, NSA, republican PACs, corporations and foreign governments that want to improve their image and " MANAGE" public opinion. One person often manages up to 100 fake profiles a day, littering the web and news sites with its " comments". Even if this manager quits, gets fired or promoted the next manager steps in and resumes using those profiles which means even though they are fake they can have thousands of comments attributed to their name because they exist in cyberspace and never die or have their account terminated....they, in fact, usually have more comments in their historical profiles because they are quite active daily because it's a job to them. The worst offender is Strafor but firms like KBR, Booze Allen, and the old Blackwater are heavily engaged. HuffPost had commenters exposed but it's the price of having the gift if the internet I suppose. We just need to be educated, aware and vigilant. Anyone who can't face facts is being naive. This us the way the world works...when money is involved people and corporations do what's in their own interests.

[Tarheel_Dem]

162. It wasn't until you piped up.

[billhicks76]

169. I don't use pipes

But the fact is NSA is a just a massive blackmail machine since 2002 against politicians, judges, generals and journalists. Read high level NSA analyst Russ Tice's interviews. There aren't enough terrorists to keep tem occupied anyway. As reported, the rest of their time is spent pursuing low level drug offenders for the DEA's Special Operations Division. The Drug War cash cow became unpopular with the people so they just rebranded it into the war on terror. There is a lot of money at stake in this mess which is why, as reported by the New York Times and New Yorker, these agencies are paying outsourced military contractors loads of money to blog and comment on sites like this with paid for, sockpuppet, fake profiles to "MANAGE" public opinion. That's why we need to keep up the good fight but also ignore the rabid ones out here that sound like they grew up in The FoxNews Womb.

[Scootaloo]

179. Well, because to about seven very loud DU'ers...

It's only reason if it makes a Democrat look bad. everything else is a "divisive tactic" that we should "put behind us."

[Cha]

136. Eddie also gave classified US intel to al qaeda..

More Snowden leaks - and this time Al Qaeda is the surveillance target (+video)

".. But what caught my eye in one of the unredacted slides was the mention of Al Qaeda in Iraq being a particular target of the NSA's efforts. The slide reads: "Visual Communicator – Free application that combines Instant Messaging, Photo-Messaging, and Push2Talk capabilities on a mobile platform. VC used on GPRS or 3G networks." The next five words were what the Times tried and failed to redact: "heavily used in AQI Mosul Network."

The aim as described in the documents is to target mobile phone apps that can give away a target's physical location. The utility of this in tracking terrorists hardly needs to be stated. The document describes a program focusing on clear security interests – Al Qaeda in Iraq, now calling itself Al Qaeda in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) – killed thousands in Iraq during the US-led war there and continues to carry out suicide bombings and attacks on civilians there on a weekly basis. ISIS is also deeply involved in the civil war in Syria, and the groups ties to Al Qaeda make it an obvious security concern for the US.."

snip//

"..But his claim that "none of this has anything to do with terrorism" is not reasonable. That's pure nonsense -- as is his attempt to suggest that any revelations of eavesdropping techniques can't do any harm because terrorists already know all about it. Terrorists may know that the US is trying to spy on them as best it can (just as Germany and France know that). But knowing the precise method is another thing altogether."

MOre..
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/Backchannels/2014/0130/More-Snowden-leaks-and-this-time-Al-Qaeda-is-the-surveillance-target-video

Never quite made it to Ecuador..

[billhicks76]

168. Hahaha

You get paid for this crap? You belong on Faux News. I guess we have to put with disinfo like this when we talk negatively about the very computer adept NSA. I've seen your posts before and they are simply outrageous.

[sheshe2]

201. So you just accused Cha of being a paid poster on DU? eom

[Cali_Democrat]

2. Snowden says he's defending the constitution...

....yet lately he's only been revealing US espionage activities against other countries. These activities certainly are not unconstitutional. Intelligence agencies were setup for these activities.

As if China doesn't spy on the US....

[arely staircase]

4. and he has boxes in his garage!

just thought I'd get that one out of the way for them.

[flamingdem]

102. Yes, that and the Authoritareenz on DU are working for the Gubmint

[reACTIONary]

116. Worse than the Gubmint...

... the National Endowment for Democracy! They are the ones behind all those human rights film festivals in Ukraine!

[grasswire]

5. So you equate a right-wing newspaper with "the Chinese"?

Oh wait. You waffled.

"For the Record: Snowden Gave Classified U.S. Intel to the Chinese. It is a fact"

then...

"There it is. Snowden went to China and gave a Chinese newspaper the individual servers the US is hacking in China."

So you have copped to the second, and abandoned the first?

[arely staircase]

8. you have a good point

I doubt the Chinese government even read the Chinese newspaper in which Edward Snowden announced what Chinese government servers the NSA hacks - given when he was in China trying to get asylum from the Chinese government.

[pnwmom]

11. So the Chinese government people can't read the newspapers in their own country?

And it would never control them, right?

[arely staircase]

14. well it was in English

and they probably weren't interested in what Snowden was saying even if any of them could read English.

[grasswire]

17. whooosh

You missed the point.

[pnwmom]

20. No,I got your point. Just thought it was very naive. n/t

[Aerows]

73. Funny how the word "naive"

seems to substitute for "Not agreeing with your narrative anymore."

[Aerows]

33. If there was a document

written in Sanskrit that tangentially allied Snowden with a cannibal tribe in a remote New Guinea mountain, it would be worthy of literary scholarship. "Snowden supports eating relatives" it would read.

[closeupready]

49. But, of course. Beneficiaries of the military-industrial complex, fat from feasting

on all the lucrative government defense contracts, have deployed that attack strategy now for many moons. Not sure how effective it has been.

[Aerows]

174. It has gotten so ridiculous

You just have to wonder.

[closeupready]

194. I just think they are wasting their time here. This is a small website,

with habitues who are hardcore news junkies and liberals, not really mainstream people, and most people don't search google for links to discussions about current events. But you know, I guess as long as they are throwing their money away, I'm fine with righties trolling our boards, lol.

[Aerows]

195. Since I have actually dedicated my time

in service to this tiny board, I'm sure I am deemed a "righty". How dare I question the establishment in DC! I'm OK with it, and I encourage them to bring it on.

[truedelphi]

6. And who exactly did this revelation harm?

That would be the more pertinent point.

It is hardly as if this revelation contained the USA's nuke launch codes, the way your headline makes it seem.

[MohRokTah]

7. I take it from your comment you are privy to all NSA and CIA operations globally.

Otherwise, you have no clue who may or may not hae been harmed by the release of the intel.

[Aerows]

34. I take it from yours

You aren't, and are just providing the rah rah squad.

"Harmed by the release of this "intel" "

What you actually mean is "OMG someone might be politically harmed by this intel".

You have to be kidding me.

[MohRokTah]

38. You're DAMNED straight I cheerlead the NSA spying on other nations. THAT'S THEIR JOB!

And operatives can be harmed by disclosure of international intelligence gathering. Once methods are disclosed, people get hurt.

Had Edward Snowden done nothing other than release the information about domestic surveillance, I'd cheerlead him. HE didn't. He crossed the fucking line and that makes him nothing less than a traitor.

[Aerows]

42. MohRokTah

Would you like a bag of hair, sir, or you do prefer the box of rocks?

[MohRokTah]

43. And now when left with no valid argument, you resort to ad hominems and baiting. eom

[Aerows]

67. Would you like a transparent bag or a tranparent box? n/t

[MohRokTah]

75. So you believe in a black and white world, like fundies?

NSA spying on Chinese = carrying out the purpose for their existence.

NSA spying on citizens domestically = unconstitutional

Snowden ratting out NSA spying on citizens domestically = good move, BRAVO.

Snowden revealing operational specifics on ongoing spying efforts directed at other nations = TREASON.

I can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. Can you?

[Aerows]

77. Please continue to profess

These Ideals of yours are amazing. I want to hear more.

Can I subscribe to your newsletter?

[MohRokTah]

81. And again, you resort to ad hominems and baiting.

Apparently, you aren't capable of nuance.

[SunSeeker]

120. Nor fact-based argument. nt

[Number23]

171. Or wit.

Unless it's totally unintentional. See the "Obama's mom worked for the CIA" thread from a few weeks ago. There aren't enough and in the world for that bit of nonsense.

[SunSeeker]

186. Glad I missed that thread.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

172. Did you know that when our spy apparatus went full time in the years after WW2...

...that one of the first things we did was to overthrow a peaceful country that liked us and wasn't in bed with the Soviet Union? True, this was the CIA under Allen Dulles--the NSA wasn't around yet. I'm not particularly tying my post to Snowden, but I am reminding all to be careful about what you support. The United States doesn't always operate with honor, decency, or honesty--there are a few hundred other examples that help to make the same point.

[Aerows]

177. "Obama is the President of the United States

that means I do not give a shit, he is President and I do not give a good goddamn what he does in our name because he is President."

It's a sorry argument, but that seems to be what it has degenerated to.

[treestar]

71. No, it could harm actual US citizens

Unless you think we have no right to defend ourselves? You really think other countries are pussy cats?

[arely staircase]

10. yeah I am sure the US was just looking at people's grades on the Chinese university server

nothing related to arms control or Chinese hacking of our own computers. nah. they were just sitting around the NSA rolling on the floor laughing at sophomores who flunked biology.

[treestar]

68. It could easily have an effect on US-Chinese relations

Why did Comrade Eddie wish to harm those? That has nothing to do with allegedly unconstitutional collection of metadata with a warrant.

[SidDithers]

9. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Peacetrain]

12. You lap dog you!!

sorry.. someone in another thread is saying people who question Snowden's tactics are lapdogs for Obama.. I just could not resist

[pnwmom]

13. Thanks for the reminder. nt

[bvar22]

15. For the Record...YOU got it wrong again.

Did you READ the article YOU cited?

"It is not known how many times the prestigious university has been attacked by the NSA [font size=3]but details shown to the Post by Snowden[/font] reveal that one of the most recent breaches was this January."

How can you miss something in plain Black & White?
It is right there in the 2nd paragraph, fer gawds sake.
You really should read the stuff before you link to it.
That will save you from future embarrassments, like today.

Snowden gave this information to "The Post",
NOT the Chinese Government.
The editorial Board at The Post decided to publish it.

Your claim that Snowden gave this information to the Chinese is now [font size=3]OFFICIALLY DEBUNKED.[/font]
...though that fact that old arely staircase has once again posted BOGUS information to DU
will not matter to some.

On Edit:
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1266892/exclusive-nsa-targeted-chinas-tsinghua-university-extensive-hacking?page=all
The Link YOU provided above so that everyone reading this thread can easily verify for themselves that you posted and easily disprovable FALSE claim.

[arely staircase]

16. lol

but nice use of the CAPS LOCK FUNCTION AS ALWAYS

[bvar22]

18. You dodged the point...You posted BOGUS claims.

...as usual.

[msanthrope]

24. you seem extremely confused about a point of law....

The law simply does not care how Edward Snowdon made intelligence available to the Chinese government.

The fact that it was made available either through a newspaper or through other means is a crime.

You seem to be confused about the fact that just because he went and talked to a reporter this somehow made it some type of arm's length third party transactions and therefore was not a violation of the law.... you are incorrect.

Take a look at the Daniel Ellsberg prosecution.... it didn't matter that he went to newspapers.

[Otelo]

40. Is the Washington Post writer a traitor?

Or is it not fun to do that?

[SidDithers]

99. Welcome to DU...

Sid

[arely staircase]

21. uh ok

63 computers and servers in Tsinghua University in Beijing

and

Chinese University of Hong Kong

and

focusing much attention on so-called “network backbones”,

[bvar22]

25. Did you READ the atricle YOU linked to, arley?

Apparently not,
because it states in clear, English print,
right there in the 2nd Paragraph that Snowden gave the information to The Post.

So your claim that "Snowden Gave Classified US Intel to the Chinese" is absolutely [font size=3]DEBUNKED[/font] ...again.


BTW: That is exactly what legitimate Whistle Blowers do.
They pass the information to accredited Media Outlets,
and their editorial boards decided what to publish.

BTW2: I'm is favor of letting foreign universities KNOW that the NSA is hacking their computers.
You DO know that China is a MFN Ally?

*Rampant Government Secrecy and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Persecution of Whistle Blowers and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Government surveillance of the citizenry and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Secret Laws and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Secret Courts and Democracy can not-co-exist.

*Our Democracy depends on an informed electorate.

You either believe in Democracy, and government accountable TO The People,
or you don't.
It IS that simple.

[arely staircase]

27. name's arely

[elias49]

63. Start saying Edward Snowden and maybe

everybody (who cares) will get your name spot on!

[bvar22]

76. Annnnnd......There we have it.

ALL you got are funny photos and BOGUS claims.

If you have any integrity,
you could go back and Edit your OP so that it reflects the truth,
and not bogus figments of your fevered imagination.


Another FAIL.
The information in the linked article
contradicts the claims made by the OP.

SEE!
I got funny pix too!

[arely staircase]

185. actually your funniest pic is in post 25 nt

[Soylent Brice]

46. Don't waste your time with them.

[Logical]

101. Hmmm, considering you did not counter his points at all makes me think they are correct. nt

[Mojorabbit]

155. Your thread is now over despite the rolling on the floor smilie. nt

[arely staircase]

158. what?

what a strange post.

[Mojorabbit]

159. Your op has been debunked. :) nt

[arely staircase]

160. nope

it has not

[msanthrope]

19. Because the Chinese government doesn't read the newspaper? Your illogical

assertion that this has somehow been debunked makes no sense.

If I steal classified intelligence regarding covert surveillance of another government.... and I make it available to that government... it is a crime. Understand that the law does not care how you made it available.

Thats what you seem to be missing in this analysis..... The law simply does not care how he made this intelligence available. It's still a crime.

[TheKentuckian]

197. They have no less access to the Washington Post.

With this logic if anyone ever releases classified information to the press they have then given classified information to the Chinese, who we are not at war with and in fact have very close ties.
In fact, they enjoy most favored nation status so they cannot be reasonably defined as an enemy. I'm pretty sure we weren't borrowing from Hitler.

The foaming at the mouth is silly.

[msanthrope]

198. Ok....to your first assertion, yes. It matters not to whom or how it is disseminated....

As to your second assertion...Jonathan Pollard.

[Aerows]

36. No, reading the article

doesn't support the narrative that there is a vast conspiracy to undermine President Obama

Because Snowden showed that there have been violations since ... President Bush did them, too.

[Otelo]

22. Great analysis on the constitutionality of NSA programs

Kudos.

[Helen Borg]

23. oh yeah, prove it!

[arely staircase]

26. well played nt

[on point]

28. Actually he gave it to the American People. The other countries just read it too.

[arely staircase]

29. hey I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to argue that for real nt

[Soylent Brice]

30. for the record...

[arely staircase]

31. I know, right

we shouldn't be keeping secrets from the Chinese. that's just wrong.

[Hekate]

35. Or from Putin, either.

I mean, how can we live with ourselves.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now having said that, for the record I would like to state that the US has an awful lot of housecleaning to do in our own intel community. Our hands are not clean.

But that does not mean we just give away the store to nations that are -- and again I repeat myself for the umpteenth time -- Not Our Friends. If you believe they are, I have a big purple dinosaur for you to spend the rest of your life watching on teevee.

[arely staircase]

58. I agree with your point about our intel community

I even give snowden credit for getting the ball rolling to end metadata collection. but he also committed espionage for the Chinese and is now doing Russian propaganda. he could have been a hero but he chose another path.

[elias49]

70. That's "Snowden" with a capital "S"

just saying

[Control-Z]

150. Seriously? (nt)

[bravenak]

181. I like it with a lower case S.

snowden. Like that. Just sayin'.
Or cheese faced twit. My fave. Just sayin'.
Or putins werkzeug. Thats a good one.

[Soylent Brice]

44. derp.

[Hekate]

32. KnR Good luck. It's just barely possible that he is the most naive person who ever got entangled....

...in global politics.

But that beggars the imagination.

[DeSwiss]

37. You're missing the whole damned point. And that's a fact. n/t

[Vashta Nerada]

39. I heard Snowden once went to the bathroom and DIDN'T WASH HIS HANDS!!!

That monster!

[arely staircase]

51. and had boxes in his garage!

[marmar]

45. The Pulitzer voters have clearly ruffled some feathers around here.

It's kind of amusing, in a tragicomic way.

[Soylent Brice]

47. this^

[bvar22]

88. Well, That Pulitzer certainly provoked a regular Two Minutes of HATE from the NSA protectors.

They ARE on the Wrong. Side. of. History,
and many of them now KNOW that
but don't have the ego strength to admit it.

Their desperation has gotten embarrassing, like THIS thread
where the linked article contradicts the claim made by the OP.
How Pathetic.


You will know them by their WORKS.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

175. HE DIDNT WIN THE PULITZER!!!!1!!!111!

at least that's what I kept reading in GD last week. Apparently there are those who think the Post's and Guardian's gardening sections or puzzle pages get credit for breaking the NSA story.

[Thinkingabout]

50. If i had not committed any crimes (like espionage or theft), I would never have left

The US, would stay and prove the "false charges" are wrong. But on the other hand I would have tried to peddle my take to other countries.

[Aerows]

52. If I thought I could get a legal trial

being held in humane conditions and then getting tried for my "crimes" I'd agree with you.

If I thought I'd be sent to a hell hole never to be heard from again? Hell no, I'd take whatever asylum I could get while revealing misconduct by the government.

[Thinkingabout]

66. Perhaps it would be best not to make the choice to commit crimes in which would

Cause one to be put in a hell hole to never be heard from again. It would be a legal trial, there is not a need to have an illegal trial, they have evidence. Bring him back and see who.is wrong.

[bowens43]

53. so?

I assume you are trying to make some kind of point but I have no idea what it is.

[AgingAmerican]

54. Domestic US spying is still sleazy and uncalled for

No amount of smearing the messenger makes it otherwise.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

55. The NSA, like the CIA, has always been incredibly corrupt, inept, and respects no laws at all

Even reading over what wikipedia says about the NSA is terrifying:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency

[Aerows]

60. It just makes them angry

like the emotional toddlers they are that people realize that all they know is "throw poo at opponent to make my poo look more strong".

[Sarah Ibarruri]

83. True. Meantime, they're doing lots of harm. They've been doing harm since forever, and nobody

ever puts them under some sort of control.

[Aerows]

56. He revealed crimes and misconduct

He reasonably discerned that he would be prosecuted for revealing crimes.

If that is your idea of a spy, then your idea of a patriot is one I do not adhere to.

[cantbeserious]

57. Telling The Chinese That They Are Being Attacked Is Not The Same As Collected Intelligence Information

eom

[arely staircase]

59. he told them how we spy on them

that is espionage.

[cantbeserious]

61. He Told The World How The USA Is Spying On All Countries - That Is Whistle Blowing

eom

[arely staircase]

62. no it isn't nt

[cantbeserious]

64. Only In Your World - Most Of Us Are Grateful To Know How Corrupt The US Government Has Become

eom

[arely staircase]

69. do you disaprove of all US spying?

if not, what spying is legit?

[cantbeserious]

79. Many Disapprove What The NSA Has Become After 9/11 - Authorized By George Bush And Justified By John Yoo

eom

[arely staircase]

82. gotcha but what kind of spying should the US be doing? if any nt

[cantbeserious]

87. You Gotcha Nothing

eom

[arely staircase]

90. so nothing. we should never spy on anyone ever

wow

[cantbeserious]

95. Ah The Rhetorical Putting Words In Others Mouths Approach

eom

[arely staircase]

100. I asked you what spying we should do and you wrote "nothing"

I am not putting words in you mouth.

[cantbeserious]

104. How Deep Down This NonSense Rabbit Hole Do You Want To Go - I Have Eternity - Do You

eom

[arely staircase]

105. what? nt

[cantbeserious]

106. Right - What?

eom

[GeorgeGist]

164. You spy on your neighbors?

[arely staircase]

167. no, but then I am not a nation state nor being spied on myself

other than that, great analogy

[treestar]

65. What happens at that University that could have an effect on national security of the US

is another interesting question. True, why did Comrade Eddie reveal that? It's not "spying on Americans."

[Hissyspit]

85. "Comrade Eddie"

That is so ugly. Brings to mind the ugliest of tactics from all the ignorant far right-wingers throughout my 50 years of living in the United States. And you don't have a clue, or do you?

[treestar]

94. Meh, I think it's funny

I do not attribute all the hullabaloo you seem to attribute. He's a public figure. By his own choice. We're not calling him a commie. Just pointing out that he's a Russian now.

[BillZBubb]

125. Channeling McCarthy won't win you any arguments here.

Odd that you would choose to use a tried and true right wing tactic to smear someone. Or maybe it isn't so odd.

[treestar]

145. Don't worry about it

Nobody cares if Eddie is a communist nowadays. We realize he's a libertarian. We are just teasing him that he's Russian now.

[Sunlei]

74. He did not go to China. He shared the files with the POST.One of the media Snowden shared info with

NSA is so flush with billions of OUR Federal money. The contracted businesses probably have their thousands of 'for profit' contractor employees 'hacking' into any computer they can get into.

Who the heck knows, those 'for profit' contractors probably paid bonus pay, by the number of hacked computers.

[arely staircase]

80. he didn't go to China? nt

[MohRokTah]

92. Kinda weird since everybody everywhere reported he went to China.

[840high]

78. Unrec for misleading headline.

[gratuitous]

84. George W. Bush gave the Chinese and the Russians one of our spy planes

But nobody seems to remember that.

[Cha]

86. Thanks for the Record of history, arely. They're getting sick of

"comrade eddie"? What's sickening is ignoring the facts of comrade eddie to pump up the little putin puppet.

[treestar]

96. It's amazing how bothered they are by that

And how they think we'll feel bad about it? They should recognize that pity for comrade eddie is not something that's going to convince us.

[jtuck004]

89. For the record, Mi$$ RobMe and others of his ilk sold the Chinese our jobs. For profit. And of the

two, I think Snowden did far less harm to the non-paranoid among us, the private equity folks much more. Info spilled about security postures in IT is dated, by definition, and begins to lose value and diminish as soon as it is revealed - at least it does anywhere that security is really a concern.

On the other hand,the damage done by the .001 %ers continues to hurt people, leaving many of them, and their children, little more than the opportunity to be serfs for their entire life.

I'd still rather have Snowden as a co-worker or neighbor.

[harun]

91. He gave info to a newspaper. Like the Chinese don't already know their servers are being hacked.

Who cares?

[arely staircase]

97. all old news huh? nothing to see here huh?

I'm sure they know we are trying. Thanks to Comrade Eddie they know we could do it successfully and what specific servers we were getting in to.

[harun]

170. The 1950's called, they want their red scare name calling back. (n/t)

[arely staircase]

184. the 40s called, they want Tokyo Rose back nt

[closeupready]

192. The 1930's called, they want their whatever back.

Your turn.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

93. Good for him.

The fact that our government is hacking universities, no matter in what country they exist, is shameful.

[creeksneakers2]

110. It wasn't just a university

There were other activities there, including a communication system through which lots of other things could be hacked.

[Drew Richards]

98. What the... Let me shove a little reality to your myopic view...most people know by now what I do

For a living...

For the record I am a backbone engineer and voice provisioner...

Your article that you cite as Gospel is, to be kind, a one sided piece of crap snowden hit piece.

While it does mention the fact that Tsinghua is one of the "primary" backbone nodes in China's internet it completely fails to mention that for YEARS this University has been identified as the largest concentrated list of IP's that have been hacking our entire Nations and others Nations networks, government AND civilian...hell many of my customers have them completely blacklisted for years now...they are that fucking bad...its a University with entire floors full of student hackers working loosely for the state...

With that glaring omission I have to ask WTF is your agenda in posting this piece of shit hit piece?


Never mind I really don't give a ....

Whether Snowden is a hero or villain I will let history sort it out....kinda like Jimmy Carter...i'm sure there are many that used to say he was a terrible president until you then look at his record and then he turns out to be in the top 20 best of all times...and truly a gentleman and true statesman.

[arely staircase]

103. sounds like a place we should have been hacking

too bad Snowden told them we had cracked it.

[Drew Richards]

107. I see what you did there bravo!...i agree but then again they already knew we are fighting back so

Is there really that much harm? All his report to the post did is make it more public knowledge?

[arely staircase]

108. There is a difference between them knowing we are trying and knowing we are succeeding. nt

[Drew Richards]

109. You know the whole Cyber Command we built that everyone is upset about because the DIA has

It looks to the untrained eye like the bridge of the enterprise?

We created those in direct retaliation to the increased attacks and...the design is actually the most efficient design there is for a NOC/Threat Assessment Center...and I have been in quite a few...

[Drew Richards]

111. Again that would only be true if you pre-supposed they are stupid and dont know they have been

Hacked...

Unless you're an agent neither of us can say for sure what they already know. Again I think you see it as more damning and critical a disclosure than I.

But hey we are all entitled to our own opinions...good deal.

[arely staircase]

119. well, regardless of which of us is right...and I will admitt you seem to know a lot more about

systems than I do. but the fact we have been successful at hacking those servers was classified. snowden had no right to go to a foreign country and publicly announce it. and unlike the domestic phone metadata, there is no whistleblower/ethical justification.

[Drew Richards]

123. I totally understand how you feel...now let me blow your mind...

What if...just what if...this is all a Psyops game and all the information he is divulging is antiquated, non-essential or false...but we may never be told...because that's exactly how psyops succeeds?

LOL just something twisty to think about...

[arely staircase]

124. I considered that in the early days. Could still be true. Unlikely, but now out of the question. nt

[Democracyinkind]

115. No shit, Sherlock...

So you've actually proven that Snowden told a Chinese newspaper that the US counterhacked Tsinghua University, which has been known as a base of Chinese hacking operations against american cyber-infrastructure ever since it installed its first dial-up modem?

The Chinese must have been shocked! SHOCKED, I tell you. If it weren't for Snowden, they would never have suspected that such a thing was possible! And MULTIPLE SERVERS!!! Who could have conceived of such a thing! Snowden is the Moriarty of traitors, no doubt!!1!11!!

[arely staircase]

122. so what was the point of telling them about it? nt

[Democracyinkind]

133. He was telling it to the Post, hence the audience was you, me and our Chinese equivalents.

Snowden seems to think that there's a need to inform the world that those who hack are hacked back... It seems to be a pet peeve of him, as evidenced by the whole Russian episode.

It's no coincidence that he started with the Tsinghua information last summer, as Tsinghua was much discussed as a perpetrator of cyberattacks against "US interests". It was a matter of setting the record straight, that it's a cat and mouse game rather than a tale of lions and lambs. Personally, I found the idea that this needed to be pointed out ridiculous, but the last year on DU - with multiple such threads as this one - has disabused me of that notion.

I find your logic quite amusing - the way you use "them" to mingle the press and government - following it would have the curious unintended consequence of revealing the fact that Snowden is actually sharing his info with the NSA when he talks to western media. Ponder that

[treestar]

146. Well if you tell the press you tell the Chinese government

along with everyone else. This line of attack is illogical, as is the crying about us calling poor Eddie "comrade." Proves what he has done has become more and more obviously indefensible.

[Democracyinkind]

151. Yes! Exactly!!

And everytime he talks to western media he's actually telling the NSA!

Moriarty indeed.

[SoapBox]

117. Whatever Comrade Snowden did...

The lying weasel should have his ass in the slammer.

[BillZBubb]

121. So now it's the McCarthy-ite "Comrade" ad hominem

Real nice on a place called "Democratic Underground". I would expect that sort of reactionary drivel on a right wing site. After all, to them McCarthy using that tactic was splendid.

[Drew Richards]

130. Nyet comrade! We need no stinking McCarthy...we have the arts de politic of MAO-MAO

[DisgustipatedinCA]

182. This begs the question: which Mao?

Is this the cat responsible for the Mao-Mao Uprising, or the one in China responsible for the Clumpable Revolution?

Which leads to the further question...who IS The MAO Inhibitor?

[Drew Richards]

183. LOL OMG that was good...Grumpy kitty says there is only one MAO...

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

139. As I read all these comments, one thing becomes clear

All of the red white and blue conditioning seems to have worked.

[BillZBubb]

156. Sadly true...

[cthulu2016]

140. WTF are you on about? For The Record: Snowden Gave Classified US Intel to Newspaper Readers

[Nobel_Twaddle_III]

147. He should have incorperated first, Then he would only be looking at a fine.

.
Loral was accused of transferring technology to China in 1996. The incident arose as a result of an investigation into the launch failure of Intelsat 708, a Space Systems/Loral–built satellite. In a 2002 agreement with the State Department and Department of Justice the company agreed to pay $20 million in fines to settle the matter and to improve its compliance procedures. In the agreement Loral officials neither admitted nor denied the government's charges, but Loral executives acknowledged "the nature and seriousness of the offenses alleged by the department in the draft charging letter, including the risk of harm to the security and foreign policy interests of the United States", and stated that they wished to make amends through the payment of restitution. Schwartz subsequently released a statement accepting "full responsibility for the matter" and portrayed the incident as an error by a single Loral employee

[arely staircase]

149. +1 nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

148. My heart bleeds for the poor, beleaguered, NSA and CIA.

Just like it used to bleed for the KGB and Stasi.

[elias49]

153. I love how all these Edward Snowden hate threads

seem to end badly. But keep trying by all means. You don't seem to have anything else to do.

[BillZBubb]

157. It is certainly hard to understand the motivation of the Snowden attackers.

Some have suggested they are paid agents. I don't know about that but I definitely wouldn't put it past the national security apparatus. Making the discussion about Snowden and not the crimes of the ever expanding police state appears to be an effective strategy.

[arely staircase]

161. because the only thing being discussed on DU

you have a point.

[Fumesucker]

165. Emmanuel really is getting under your skin

You're even starting to sound (a little bit) like him.

[arely staircase]

166. ...

[Aerows]

173. For the record

You are either an NSA insider to have such knowledge or ......... I'll leave you to determine that one since you can get evidence out of thin air.

[gcomeau]

176. Or...

...they're able to read a newspaper. In which said data was published.

[Aerows]

178. In China

I guess now RT is going to be en vogue if it slanders whistleblowers.

[whatchamacallit]

180. HAIL HYDRA!

[Aerows]

187. If that is your source

you need better material.

[arely staircase]

189. my source is snowden

I will grant you that he isn't credible. But he did give an interview and say those things. Maybe he is adouble agent and feeding the chinese bullshit for the NSA.

[Aerows]

190. I have a question

What does "arely" mean? I've always wondered that. "arely staircase".

[arely staircase]

193. it is the name the agency gave me nt

[Cha]

188. K

[JEB]

191. At least he didn't give them our jobs.