You want to know why people distrust the Government

[belcffub]

Its a feeling a helplessness that you get when you deal with them...

A month ago I got a letter from the treasury that $157 was being withheld from my taxes for a debt I owed... The Agency that listed the debt was the Georgia Department of human services (neither I nor my wife lives or has lived in GA). I file my taxes jointly with my wife. There was no information in this letter about which of us "owed" this debt, what the debt was for just a 800 number to call the the Georgia Department of human services.

So I called the number... I got the letter on a Saturday and of course no one was there... I had to call back between 8:30 - 4:30 Monday through Friday...

On Monday I call back... and get and answering machine... That is only on between 8:30-4:30...

I leave a message... I do not get a call back... So every day for a week I leave a message

The following week after not getting a call back I try the main number... Spend a total of three hours on hold between being transferred around. After talking to the main number, Child support and finally wick / food stamps I get a hit on my wife's SSN... someone used her SSN to apply for food stamps... They did not use her name just her SSN...

So they did not do basic checking on the application to see if the name matched the SSN...

They gave me the name used and race over the phone (pretty sure they should not have) of the applicant...

they transferred me to fraud but after 45 minutes on hold they were closed for the day...

Called back the next day and spoke with fraud who said that account had been closed and that I would have to use the number on the letter and that someone would get back to me...

that was three weeks ago... I have left over a dozen messages and still no one has called me...

I called the treasury and they said there is nothing they can do... I have to work with the agency that put the lien on my wife's SSN...

People complain about corporations all the time but if this was a corporation they could not have just taken my money without going through the courts... If I had a problem with something I bought I could call and usually get a person... I could also call my credit card company... here I have no ability to do anything... I am powerless... I will call again today after work but at this point I have little hope of ever talking to someone from the department that can get me my money back...

Any Government agency that can take money from your tax return should be required to have a manned line you can call into... They should have to do basic due diligence (like matching a SSN and a name)... And if they are wrong they should have to give back double what the took... which should motivate them to make sure they are going after the right people and partly make up for all the time I have wasted...

/RANT

[villager]

1. Petty clerks do tend to have an arrogance, and there's little accountability

So between their arrogance, and the economy-crushing arrogance of the 1%ers, there's no one, really, on the side of the "regular Joe" (or Josephine!)

[belcffub]

2. Everyone I have spoken with at the GA Department of Human Services

Has been nothing but helpful up to what they themselves can do...

I know it is not their personal fault and I do not blame them... I am also always very polite because of this... they personally did not take my money... I just want it back...

[villager]

5. I just find the main procedure is to you refer you away, like in Kafka, as soon as possible

...so that nothing ever has to actually get done...

[belcffub]

19. each person helped me

up to what they could do...

main dispatch listened to my issue and told me I needed to talk with child support and wick/food stamps to find out if there was a hit on our info...

child support ran both our numbers and didn't find a hit and transferred me to wick / food stamps

wick / food stamps ran our numbers and got a hit on my wife's SSN with a different name...

they then transferred me to fraud... but by then it was too late... everything was closed...

so I have no problem with the people who I spoke with... each did what they could...

I do have a problem with a system that allowed someone to apply for benefits with a SSN that did not match the name on the application... that when they discovered an issue and put a lien they put it against the SSN that they had to know was not good... I have a problem with them being able to take my money and providing a number that goes to an answering machine that is only on from 8:30-4:30 and that no one seems to check...

the system is flawed... the individuals not so much...

[villager]

20. But if individuals are all mysteriously "powerless" to do *anything* to actually solve/address your

...problem, well, yes, that's a problem with a system as a whole, but also the individuals in it who initiated the charge against you, leaving everyone else mired in a bureaucracy where now no one can undo something that *somebody* authorized.

Perhaps fewer of these things would be levied against people if they knew citizens had actual recourse, instead of just a round-robin of answering machines and desk-to-desk phone transfers.

[belcffub]

21. perhaps...

At this point I don't know that it was an individual or perhaps an automated process... Still do not have any resolution... and am totally frustrated... serenity now... serenity now...

[jwirr]

6. I don't get it. Do you work in Georgia? My son-in-law had something like that happen to him and

when he followed up there was another man with the same name. He had to get a lawyer to fix it.

[belcffub]

9. No... never have

nor has my wife... someone just used her SSN on a form... and based on that they put a lien on her SSN so they took it our of our tax return...

and the lawyer would cost more then the amount taken...

[jwirr]

12. That is terrible. Someone accountable should at least be forced to see this is happening.

[yeoman6987]

27. Sorry you went through that

If I owe either state or IRS, whether right or wrong, I only use the mail system. Much easier.

[prairierose]

3. This is working exactly as the republicants planned...

They have spent more than 30 years talking about govt does not work while cutting budgets for every department. As fewer (union) employees are available to deal with any new regulations as well as the old ones, each department works less and less efficiently. Thus the propaganda that "Government does not work!" becomes true and more and more people hate government and are willing to vote for the republicants who hate government and want it not to work so that they can privatize more government agencies and profit from the taxpayers.

It's a circle that ends up with lots of government contractors profiting and more non-union workers who make minimum wage or less.

[liberal N proud]

7. This right here^^^^^^^^^

[prairierose]

16. Thanks....n/t

[belcffub]

18. I agree

but the point is most people will only see that the state is holding onto your money with little they can do about it (I type this while on hold for the last 30 minutes)

[uponit7771]

23. +1

[Scuba]

4. Another good question: Why do people trust corporations?

The overall American experience of consumers and employees must be better than my few data points.

[belcffub]

11. I don't trust corporations

I am just not forced to deal with most or can stop dealing with most if I choose... in this case not so much

[KansDem]

26. Good question...

I used to make payments to a credit-card company (that'll remain nameless even though we've all heard of it) by way of its automated phone payment service. No problem: just call and punch a few numbers on the phone pad and the payment is made.

Until one point last year. I made a payment and saw that it came out of my bank account, verified by my online bank statement. Then I receive a letter telling me the CC company hadn't received my payment. I call them up to explain I had made the payment; they say I didn't. So the CC company representative calls my bank for a three-way conference call. A representative from my bank gets on the line and verifies that the payment did go out of my account. The CC company representative accepts that and the call is completed. All in all, it took some 45 minutes (I was transferred to several CC company people before we made the conference call).

Well, the same thing happens a couple of months later! The exact same scenario!

Now I talk to a live person when I make a CC payment. In fact, I've paid down the balance to a point I hope to pay off the card and close the account.

Yeah, and some people trust corporations over government. I don't know why but when I see a Teapublican denounce the government I ask myself, "So you don't want a government 'Of, For, and By the People' but you'll accept corporate rule?" I think someone should have asked the Bundyites that question.

[joeglow3]

8. I agree completely

Companies screw people over, sure. However, if you are calm, I have gotten what I wanted 100% of the time. I got Office Depot to let me pick any desk the offered for 50% off because of an error they made. Walmart gave me a $20 giftcard because of an error they made. K-Mart gave me a $50 gift card because of an error they made. Nebraska Furniture Mart took $200 (about 20%) of a purchase because it did not arrive when they said it would.

However, I have never felt more helpless then when dealing with the government regarding why I was not receiving social security statements showing my earnings. I called and when I could not provide the correct information, they would not tell me anything. Problem is, the information I provided to them WAS accurate (date of birth, city of birth, parents, etc.). The would not tell me ANYTHING.

I finally gave up and found where the local office was. Given that SOMETHING was wrong with my information, I decided to take off work early and stop be the office (which is only open until 4:00). I get there and spend over an hour waiting, only to find out they cannot tell me anything because I need my birth certificate. Thus, I get to take off ANOTHER afternoon to come back with my birth certificate and wait another hour to find out they had my date birth entered in their system wrong (off by one day).

I can understand how people can feel helpless in dealing with governments. I have NEVER seen worse customer service than I have with the government. It is scary when you realize you cannot take your business elsewhere. It is even more scary when you realize how much power they really have over your life, with little or no accountability.

[belcffub]

10. that and I have a choice

or at least the appearance of a choice to do business with most companies in the future...

I have never done business with the State of GA and they had the ability to take my money...

I have no choice but to do business with the treasury department...

[joeglow3]

14. As I said in a different thread, states can be worse

New York makes it standard practice to assess taxes on everyone possible and make you prove you don't owe it. I am a tax accountant and had two separate clients who were partners in different no-activity partnerships that filed a New York return. Within 6 months, both partners (who lived across the country) received assessment letters from New York asserting they were New York residents and owed them state taxes on 100% of their earnings.

They tried calling the state and ultimately ended up paying us close to a thousand dollars to get New York to acknowledge they did not owe anything. I can only imagine how people people get freaked out and agree to a settlement for this type of shakedown.

[belcffub]

15. Yeah I figure NY would be worse

I live in NY... and if NY thinks you owe it money... or has an inkling... they will do everything in order to get it...

You'd think all that would lower my property taxes... but I just got a letter saying they are going up... $4k a year on a $120k house... only in NY...

[frazzled]

13. They stopped mailing statements to everyone in 2011

but supposedly reversed course and mail statements only to workers over 60 who are not yet receiving SS. (I don't know if that's true, however, since I haven't seen one in a couple of years, and I'm over 60).

You have to go online to see your statement. However, that still apparently has its tricky aspects. Here's an article with some good tips:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/online-social-security-statements-patience-advised/

[joeglow3]

17. I did see that.

This was about 6 years ago. I am only 36, but noticed my wife was receiving them and I wasn't. Frankly, I just figured it was a check to make sure they had my earnings right, which led to me calling.

And, I was thinking the website was not well received and they are going back to mailing them out to everyone every five years:


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/paper-social-security-statements-back-214323305.html;_ylt=A0SO8yk5S2FTbBQArINXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0MGpwODQ0BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDM2NV8x

[uponit7771]

24. GOP wins, they hate government and want to make it as horrible as possible

[joeglow3]

28. I have zero doubt this is part of their plan

Cut their legs out from underneath them, make it inefficient and then complain about how inefficient government is.

[uponit7771]

22. Take them through small claims court then to get the lien off your wifes SSN

[belcffub]

25. going to have to read up on that

never had to do anything like that before...

can I do it where i live... which is not GA... or would it have to be in GA...

[SamKnause]

29. I don't trust the government. (includes all branches)

I don't trust Wall Street.

I don't trust the majority of CEO's.

I don't trust the majority of corporations.

I don't trust our justice system.

I don't trust our penal system.

I don't trust our military leaders.

I don't trust war profiteers.



I feel they have all "worked" tirelessly to earn my distrust.

[belcffub]

30. Bouncing this back to the top

I have been leaving messages with Georgia for a month now... Half the time you call and all lines are busy... other half I leave my voice mail and wait...

Today I called the main number again and asked is there anyone I can talk to for real... I was told that any investigation would take 6 months and that I could not even find out if an investigation has started... I asked to speak with a supervisor and was put on hold for a hour and then I got to a full voice mail box and could not even leave a message...

Called my Congressman after and spoke to two very nice women who are mailing me a release form so they can look at our tax data... They said once I fax it back they should be able to do something... so I'm crossing my fingers...

next trip through Georgia I am stopping at the welcome center and pissing on their sign....