General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBechtel Corporation gets contract for thousands of federal toll booths
Securing a 100 billion dollar deal Bechtel corporation will build all the new toll booths on US interstate highways.
Meanwhile raising the gas tax just 2 cents was turned down as too expensive, for the consumer be it for road improvements or carbon tax and will hold up traffic too much for deceleration, fuel consumption, braking and accelerations unlike the toll booths which are considered more energy and environmental friendly
I had to add that this is future tense and satire because some don't get satire but also a real possibility.
Don't forget the other contracts for supporting these toll booths like sanitation and water for the workers. Collection of tolls and other goodies that must be sub contracted......
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Seriously. I don't get the opposition to tolls.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Why is a gas tax better than tolls? I'd be happy to support either.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024893832#post8
interstate highways were never intended to be toll roads.
Not only were Interstates built as limited access highways and never meant to be tollways, the cost to build and staff toll infrastructure would take decades to pay for. If our government would just use the taxes intended for Interstate highway upkeep as intended, this insane idea never would have been introduced.
The are plenty of other means to continue their maintenance without this regressive insanity.
ellenfl
(8,660 posts)of course, that never happens. it is still a toll road. and no, i will NOT call it the ronald reagan turnpike.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)"Privatization" implies that it was public before. Tolls have literally always been contracted out.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Plus the environmental impact of toll booths.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Obviously that's inefficient. Would a gas tax be better? Sure. Can you pass one?
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)States can create their own toll roads if they wish and raise state gasoline taxes as needed but not on federal interstates.
Toll booths on federal interstates are just a boondoggle for corporations, which cause traffic congestion, and increased fuel inefficiencies.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)You like, stick them in your window and they have these fancy reader things hanging over the highways and off ramps and it reads your plate to and stuff.
Then they charge your account and when your account gets to like $10 they automatically deduct $30 from your checking account so you have a buffer again.
No humans required to sit in little booths anymore. Technology ROCKS!
greatauntoftriplets
(175,733 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)to go cross country?
Yeah right.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)traveling through Kansas?
snooper2
(30,151 posts)What about vehicles with out-of-state license plates?
The NTTA currently partners with a third party and other states to acquire out-of-state vehicle information. The NTTA aggressively pursues all tolls owed, whether the vehicle is registered in Texas or another state.
https://help.ntta.org/QA/FAQs/
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Even with a TollTag you still have to stop and wait for the arm to raise. Minor issue really, but it's still annoying.
At least a few years ago the NTTA and Houston hooked up and the TollTag is also good on the toll roads down there.
edited to add: Also, don't think if you're in a rental car or maybe a loaner car from a dealership that you won't end up paying up. I know Avis has a tolltag thing (at least in the Orlando area), but you end up paying almost twice as much for tolls using it. In Texas they'll send the bill to Avis and on to you. When I worked at a car dealership, I frequently contacted customers that drove the tollroads in our vehicles for payment.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)get it?......... I guess not.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Then call you every day at 9:12AM and 6:42PM to collect the $2.45 that you owe
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)because that's what they are.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Rus-Si-A!
Actually our toll roads around DFW are great, always in good shape, smooth,
now jump on 35 South and watch out!
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)of economic libertarianism.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)from 4 separate states when going from TN to Chicago.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)It just gets better and better.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)Just telling what my personal experience would be in the attempt.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Which doesn't help the roads. I was being facetious with you on your excellent point.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)And a to your defense, too, Ichingcarpenter!
Built, maintained and secured.That's not going to be cheap. And yet the idea that all this would be privatized is derided by some, even going so far as to call people that object to this horrible scheme, "entrenched libertarians." TN is so damned cheap and Teabagged, privatized toll booths will be automatic. And of course, the legislatures and governor will be steering the contract towards the company in which they own stock.
And the rich and wealthy companies are so put upon that they can't pay taxes....
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)All a president can do is issue an executive order opening up all interstate highways to state level tolling.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)You really gotta try harder.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Federal funds are at a standstill and are actually decreasing when you account for inflation.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)And there's nothing wrong with that.
If you don't like toll roads, it's now incumbent upon you to make sure your local representatives in your state legislature are aware of your opposition.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Choice. of privatization of public roads....... thank you.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)And now, I have no problems with them after fifteen years of living with them.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)You just drive through and someone will mail you a bill to collect the $2.00ish you owe. And the $15 in fees you owe for using the toll road without a tag. A road you can't pay cash on because they don't accept it. I notice they left that part out.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)I wonder how many segments that route would be divided into.
RandoLoodie
(133 posts)just need an IPass/EZPass/WhateverPass variant
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Gas tax - no added steps for end-users. You simply fill up exactly as always, and pay a bit more.
'EzPass' or whatever - you have to get the tags/pass/whatever. You presumably have to pay an extra bill that you didn't have to pay before.
Plus, of course, all of those toll monitors have to be built and maintained.
If the argument is 'efficiency' gas taxes win hands down over tolling.
RandoLoodie
(133 posts)the efficiency of tollbooths.
You can either stop and start again at a traditional tollbooth or you can fly through an open road tolling setup.
All the other crap you brought up doesn't have anything to do with what I was responding to.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)yes, open road tolling is more efficient than traditional tollbooths.
I still think the efficiency of a gas tax as opposed to either type of tollbooth is relevant to the conversation, even if you don't feel it was relevant to your own comment.
RandoLoodie
(133 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)while they have been collected by "authorities" like the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority, Garden State Turnpike Authority and such, these are government agencies. Occasionally, yes, some places have contracted out toll collection, but it's still in the name of the government.
In Medieval times, yes, local lords owned roads and put tolls on them and may have collected for the Crown, but that was a long time ago.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)and maintained
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)And there are roads like the Jersey Turnpike that aren't interstates, but are still a functioning part of the system.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)There's almost no point in discussing these things any more.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I'm not kidding.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Its economic tyranny. on something that was once free.......that everyone contributed to.
TheFarseer
(9,322 posts)To sell off these toll booths to the highest bidding company. And only a small step to Jack up the price four fold while competing highways rot away to leave you no choice. Come on man. Think two dimensionally.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Maybe there is good and bad.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)election year in New Jersey, were simply that to raise the gas tax affected everyone and so by definition sucked. Besides, if the money were to go to highways, prove that average Joiseyans actually used the highways.
To raise the tolls hit truckers the worst and commuters second, although we would get a lot of the money from people just passing through the state. But, every time tolls went up, any free alternatives were clogged with huge traffic jams. People will wait an extra hour to beat a $2 toll hike.
Automatic toll collection with things like EZPass helped a lot with the tollbooth traffic jams, so if you gotta pay a toll, it was the way to go.
Note that any and every revenue collection scheme will have a ready and well-funded group to explain why it will cause the fall of the Republic.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Are the highways a 'public good' that benefits all of society, and thus should be paid for by everyone, or should they be paid for by 'users'?
Oddly, people who argue the public good end are being called 'libertarians' on DU because they don't believe in user pay tolls.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)They just scream "Libertarian!" at anyone that disagrees with them. Even hating corporations is libertarianism now because WHY DO YOU HATE OBAMA? YOU MUST BE RACIST!.
Don't get me wrong. If I was constantly defending indefensible stuff, I'd probably throw whatever insults I thought would stick too.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I oppose toll booths. Eisenhower must be turning over in his grave.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Booz Allen Hamilton creating hundreds on new low paying jobs......saving the government money.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)into your pocket. And it won't stop with this newest injustice. DC is the TBTF Pimp Daddy, and we're all their whores. More Republican legislating out of a right-of-Center "Democratic" Administration. YUCK
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)that would be a novel idea.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)to get a discussion going.
Like anything around here, since it hasn't happened and is just in the idea stage, I'm not going to wring my hands about it yet.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Water and sanitation to the toll booths will be needed for the toll booth operators. Pipelines and sewage pipes will be needed.
More jobs......... for Haliburton.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)What did that thing cost?
snot
(10,524 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)on what will come down with this stupid idea.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/white-house-opens-door-to-tolls-on-interstate-highways-removing-long-standing-prohibition/2014/04/29/5d2b9f30-cfac-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html
White House opens door to tolls on interstate highways, removing long-standing prohibition
By Ashley Halsey III, Published: April 29
With pressure mounting to avert a transportation funding crisis this summer, the Obama administration Tuesday opened the door for states to collect tolls on interstate highways to raise revenue for roadway repairs.
The proposal, contained in a four-year, $302 billion White House transportation bill, would reverse a long-standing federal prohibition on most interstate tolling.
FSogol
(45,481 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)plus a reality that goes along with toll booths.
FSogol
(45,481 posts)JEB
(4,748 posts)reveals much about those posters.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)what could and probably will happen if we toll all our nation's major highways. Directed at the Privatization and which Corporate Entity/Private Contractor will get the money.
JEB
(4,748 posts)It's as close to an economy as we can come. And some, even on DU, will fiercely defend the practice of privatizing the profits while letting the public bear the risks.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Lars39
(26,109 posts)or you wouldn't be so gung-ho over this. Those of us in red state hell are just out of luck I guess.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)So -- it is a state decision to do the tolls? But the feds give the contract for the booths? And Bechtel gets the money?
Amazing. We spend a fortune to implement tolls. A gas tax would take a click on the computer. Yes? No? Seems weird.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It's called open road tolling.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)toll roads are a libertarian wet dream......
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)You still have to go through a toll booth for the Easy Pass system. Pennsylvania and Illinois both have open road.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)they are still toll roads.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)As does Interstate 95, Interstate 77. to name a few.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)It is owned by the Indiana Finance Authority and operated by the Indiana Toll Road Concession Company, a joint-venture between Spanish Cintra Concesiones de Infraestructuras de Transporte and Australian Macquarie Atlas Roads.
We should all live in your great state.......
Now look up those companies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Toll_Road
Economic libertarianism
Economic liberalism is the ideological belief in organizing the economy on individualist lines, meaning that the greatest possible number of economic decisions are made by individuals and not by collective institutions or organizations
KoKo
(84,711 posts)but they got shot back on. I suspect they ain't dead yet...but, this showed that the Deal Soured:
====
Chicago's Privatized Parking Meters Sour Airport Lease Deal
by
September 30, 2013 3:29 AM ET
Close to 19 million passengers come through Chicago's Midway Airport each year, and many will spend a lot of cash here on food, drinks, books, gum, parking and rental cars not to mention the landing fees and gate fees paid by airlines.
There are a lot of opportunities to make money in a bustling hub airport like this, and the city was hoping to cash in.
Last winter, when the city opened the bidding process in what would have been the first commercial airport to go private, six investment firms expressed interest. But by this summer, the number dwindled to just two, and now, one of the final two has dropped out.
Mayor Rahm Emanuel's response? "I said no to the privatization on Midway. It was not right for the city," Emanuel said earlier this month.
Emanuel says without competitive bids, which he hoped could net the city up to $2 billion up front, he could not guarantee a good return on Midway's lease.
But what got in the way actually had nothing to do with the airport. It was Chicago's parking meters.
What 'Hampered The Deal'
Former Mayor Richard Daley privatized the city's parking meters for $1 billion five years ago and rammed the sweetheart deal through a compliant city council without releasing many details to the public. Parking meter rates skyrocketed to the highest in the country. The city spent the $1 billion up front to balance its budget. And for the 75-year term of the lease, Chicago taxpayers still must reimburse the private operator millions of dollars a year for parking spaces the city has to take out of commission. (A 2009 report from the city's inspector general called it a "."
With Chicago voters leery of new privatization deals, Emanuel tried to impose conditions on the Midway deal. He shortened the lease term to no more than 40 years, capped food and parking prices and mandated revenue sharing on top of the big payment the private operator would make up front. The mayor also created an independent oversight panel to review the terms of any Midway lease, chaired by Peter Skosey with the non-profit Metropolitan Planning Council.
"Some of these constraints that we put on it to protect the public interest may have hampered the deal a little bit, and I think the numbers just didn't come out as favorably," Skosey says.
In other words, the private investors didn't see enough profit to make it worth their risk.
http://www.npr.org/2013/09/30/225748243/chicago-s-privatized-parking-meters-sours-airport-lease-deal