No Worries: Fukushima Radiation Didn't Make it to L.A. Beaches

[zappaman]

Despite some dire predictions that had us wondering if all surfboards and wetsuits would one day be glowing with neon-green atomic activity, radiation from the Fukushima nuclear power plant doesn't appear to have reached the shores of Los Angeles.

-snip-

Sites in Hawaii and Guam also turned up negative.

-snip-

While you might have been worried about Fukushima water turning up at Surfrider State Beach, Venice, or El Porto, the real areas of concern are the coasts of Alaska and Washington state, where Pacific currents would have first brought any Japanese radiation.

It isn't happening, though, the researchers say.

"The tell-tale isotopic signature of Fukushima, Cs-134, was not seen, even at ... incredibly low detection limits," Manley said.


http://www.laweekly.com/informer/2014/05/08/no-worries-fukushima-radiation-didnt-make-it-to-la-beaches

[NuclearDem]

1. But the starfish!

[RobertEarl]

5. The OP is false

Cesium 134 was found offshore of California back in 2011. It came over on the air currents.

The water currents are carrying cesium of the 137 variety, tritium, strontium, etc, from Fukushima. Cesium 137 has been found offshore and in mussels in Alaska that sea stars eat.

The denial of facts and misinformation like in the OP does no one any good and should be roundly dismissed as garbage.

But the two of you will continue to deny the science? Oh well.

[maddezmom]

7. Do you have a link?

[RobertEarl]

15. Several links

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4393361

Link to star fish facts from a thread of mine on DU.

**********************

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110407121343.htm

Since the double disaster of the 9.0 magnitude earthquake and tsunami that affected hundreds of thousands of people and seriously damaged the Fukushima Daichi power plant in Japan on 11 March 2011, minute traces of radioactive emissions from Fukushima have spread across the entire Northern Hemisphere. A monitoring network designed to detect signs of nuclear explosions picked up these traces from the stricken power plant. To date, more than 30 radionuclide stations that are part of the International Monitoring System have provided information on the spread of radioactive particles and noble gases from the Fukushima accident.


***************************

http://www.ourradioactiveocean.org/

At that link are some maps with popups of radiation counts. You need to go to 2011 and then center on the SW coast of California, expand that map and find the reading that tells of the Cs 134 found on the beach there. Had a discussion with FBaggins awhile back on DU concerning this item and he decided that I was correct about that Cs134. I doubt I have the link to that discussion. Should have journaled it, like I have so many others. We discussed this, he went to the site and proved me right.

[dionysus]

24. your article said "minute traces"

[NuclearDem]

27. In other words, a global catastrophe.

[RobertEarl]

28. Yep. Minute

Spread all over the N. Hemisphere. Everywhere.

The first place it landed was on the west coast. It hit the mountains and dropped down and then ran off into the ocean. Then across the US and Canada.

The shit landed everywhere. Then when it rained some of it washed down into the low spots, all the way to the oceans, where it became more concentrated.

Here's another link about the same story. I had thought everyone knew this shit already - it has been 3 f'n years!! - but I guess not, eh?

**************************

http://enenews.com/professors-nuclear-fuel-fragments-fukushima-found-europe-study-significant-part-fukushimas-radioactivity-hot-particles-film-air-filter-norway-photo

“Nuclear fuel fragments” from Fukushima found in Europe — 10,000+ kilometers from reactors — Study: Plume “directly from N. America” — Hot particles a “significant part” radioactive releases — Quickly spread over entire hemisphere — Film shows core material on Norway air filter

[MohRokTah]

31. Please provide the peer reviewed studies, not the nuttiness of the site you provided. eom

[NuclearDem]

33. Don't bother. Citing ENENews is the equivalent of "I've got nothing."

"But here's some scary argle-bargle to make it look like I do."

[VanillaRhapsody]

52. It sort of explains alot doesn't it?

[RobertEarl]

34. Enenews is a great source

It links to mostly mainstream media and established science sources. Go ahead, peer review my comments.

The link I posted from Enenews.com links directly to the lab that found the hot particles.

I see you are in deep denial and scared? I get that. It scared me too. Still does. What makes it worse is that even with all the sourced info there are people, like some here on this thread that remain in denial. They don't even follow the science, they just deny, same as the GW deniers. Sad.

[FreakinDJ]

81. ROTFLMAO

[zappaman]

85. Bwhahahahahahahaha

[SidDithers]

98. ...

Ow. My sides.

Sid

[Chan790]

126. You are aware in this case "minute" means "substantially less than background radiation", right?

You get more radiation from sunlight walking 1/4-mile; let alone from x-rays, venting gases from isotope decay underground, and eating bananas. If you're that concerned about the increase in exposure from Fukushima, you should lock yourself alone in a Faraday cage inside a lead-bunker in total darkness for the rest of your life.

I'm not shitting you, bananas are naturally radioactive and pose more of a radiation threat to Americans than Fukushima. There has never been a single incident of radiation-related death or morbidity linked to banana consumption.

For some non-histrionic comparatives of radiation exposures to comprehend exactly how much of a non-threat the Fukushima meltdown is:

(Credit: xkcd)

[RobertEarl]

127. Eat your banana and smile, right?

You are not shitting me, but you are shitting yourself.

What we have from Fukushima is radioactive particles of an atomic nature that are mutagenic and very toxic. They are new, manmade particles, unlike the sunshine and potassium-40 in bananas.

Sunshine and bananas are considered background radiation sources. Now we have added to that background. 1 + 1 = 2. Which means more radiation. And unlike sunshine, our manmade crap is 24/7. And has a half life of 30 years as in the cesium-137 atomic radioactive variety. Plutonium is more like forever, just waiting to fuck up cells. Forever.

Say, are you pro-nuke, or what, Chan?

[snooper2]

141. Have you started the speaking gigs yet? You can get paid for "spreading" this information!

Go Get PAID ROBERTEARL!

[MohRokTah]

8. .

[NuclearDem]

10. Nope, try again. Radiation still isn't killing the starfish.

Points for persistence though. Will have to subtract for no use of the word grok.

[greytdemocrat]

14. But...

How can you be sure??? If they all melted, well...

[itsrobert]

131. LOL, real funny

I enjoy a good laugh once in awhile.

thanks

itsorbert

[zappaman]

13. uh huh

says the guy who claimed dolphins in the Atlantic were showing signs of radiation from Fukushima!

[NuclearDem]

16. And the NOAA map.

The one that had absolutely nothing to do with radiation at all.

[truedelphi]

18. 300 tons of radioactive water has to end up somewhere, and in

Most cases, it means it goes everywhere.

[RobertEarl]

20. That's 300 tons a day

For three years now.

Three melted cores are being kept cool with the 300 tons of water a day. That water just runs off into the Pacific.

There is an Ocean current, called the Kuroshi(sp) current which flows to the east from Japan, directly to the west coast of Canada, and is carrying all that polluted water across the Pacific.


http://www.ourradioactiveocean.org/

[NuclearDem]

21. My that number seems scary!

Until you do the math.

One ton of water takes up 0.907 cubic meters. One cubic meter is 246 gallons, so a ton of water would be roughly 223 gallons.

223 * 300 (per day) * 365 days * 3 years = 73,584,000 gallons.

Still a scary number!

But then you take into account the Pacific Ocean has about 187,000,000,000,000,000 gallons of water (that's 187 quintillion).

Which means that even if 300 tons a day for three years, all that water totals up to 3.93 * 10^-14 % of all the water in the Pacific Ocean.

May be off by a decimal or two, not exactly a math major, but point is, it's such a small amount it's not even funny.

And that amount of polluted water is supposed to be PANIC!!!!11!!1!!1

[MohRokTah]

25. Math has a demonstrated pro-nuke bias.

[RobertEarl]

29. Ocean science is your next lesson, eh?

The water does not spread out all over the place. It flows in currents. There is a current that flows from Japan to the west coast. Also the air moves from Japan to the west coast. The fact that we see Tsunami debris from Japan on the west coast proves that.

First there was air pollution in the days after, and now the water pollution is here. Denial gets you nothing. Realization and science gets you something, but first one has to know a bit about it. You have had your first lesson, Moh, you up for more, or what?

[MohRokTah]

30. Dude, you are using propaganda, not science.

But keep pushing your BS and all it will result in is new nuclear plants in this country because the BS you are pushing makes everybody who is against nuclear energy look as loony toons as the idiocy being spouted about Fukishima.

[RobertEarl]

35. Eh?

I post solid science and you call it propaganda?

You even stoop to using the loony word?

No rebuttal of the science, just blurbs from you?

You know nothing about any of this and you just proved you don't want to know. You should just back out now while you can save face. In fact, you should delete your posts.

[MohRokTah]

37. I have yet to see a single bit of solid science posted by you. eom

[RobertEarl]

39. That must mean you can't read

But take a look at your junk. Any science at all? Any description of why we are not getting polluted? No links from you. And no science. Just emotional blurbs, signifying a complete and utter lack of any intelligence, integrity or even a willingness to learn anything about this situation.

And that is all gleaned from your posts here just in this thread.

[MohRokTah]

40. Oh I can read.

And Pseudocientific sites spewing falsehoods to promote a paranoid agenda are not peer reviewed publications.

[RobertEarl]

41. No paranoia here

I think you may be projecting?

There are ocean currents running from Japan to the US. Are you in denial of that?

Do you deny Tsunami debris has made it to the Americas?

Do you deny that particles from Fukushima have landed around the world?

You, my friend, seem like an anti-science person.

[MohRokTah]

43. Where is the dilution factor in everything you are saying?

OOPS! You left out the most important bit there, as does the agenda driven propaganda sites you use as sources.

[RobertEarl]

50. So, no answers to simple questions?

Backed into a corner, are you?

As for dilution, it is more a matter of dispersion, not dilution. With radioisotopes it is a matter of half lives. Water does not dilute, it can only disperse the atoms.

In links above, and in more detail at Enenews.com, are reports about the oceanographers who are deeply concerned about the radiation reaching the US. Unlike you, they get that it is coming, the only question is how much and when.

One thing you have not considered, obviously, since you didn't even know about dispersion until now, is that sea creatures come into contact with the polluted waters 24/7. Therefore, their chances of ingesting the radiation are tremendous. That is why serious scientists are concerned.

Hey, you sure are learning a lot tonight, eh?

[NuclearDem]

44. Anti-science?

I seem to remember you essentially calling bullpuckey on the entire scientific method during the last round of pseudoscience threads.

[truedelphi]

124. Thanks for putting up a good fight.

This is not necessarily a community of folks committed to logic.

Many of these folks live inside a "closed loop" of illogic, that can pass as logic only because the "thinking" is constantly presented inside a tightly controlled box.

Alice Walker was just interviewed on Alex Jones, so I wonder how many people here will now dismiss the author, as Jones is not a legit commentator. Etc.

[RobertEarl]

125. It's worth the effort

Some will say it is doomsday prophecy, when in actuality all it is is common sense with an application of natural science.

But those moaning about doomsday at least recognize the power unleashed, so there is that. It just scares them to much to consider the real-life ramifications of their nuke dreams of too cheap to meter.

[Gravitycollapse]

122. It's been shown in models that the concentration of radioactive material is 2 to 27 becquerels...

Per cubic meter of water. Which is 370 to 5000 times less than the maximum permissible levels in drinking water.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26329323



Why bother with science when it just feels better to think we are witnessing Doomsday? Some of the posters in here have a similar mentality to Doomsday preachers.

[longship]

19. Isn't that the mapping of the tsunami?

Yup! Looks like it. It was recycled by Fukushima nuke doomers as a radiation map. Some even were DUers.

Their agenda was more important than being honest. And so it goes.

I don't like nuclear power any more than anybody, but what purpose is there to lying about it, or making shit up? What does that gain?

Meanwhile science just does their work and thankfully the Pacific Ocean is very large. Fukushima Daiichi is a terrible disaster. But it is being managed, may be not perfectly, but as some have wisely pointed out, the Japanese don't want it any more than anybody. They are taking care of it. And yes, it's going to take years.

This study is what many of us have been saying for some time. I am sure there are some here with their hair still on fire. Sadly, that's for the Japanese. Fortunately, not us. But many of us already knew that.

[NuclearDem]

22. All it "gains" is the general public lumping rational nuclear skeptics in with the loons.

When they see the loons are completely full of shit, or in some cases outright lying, it damages the movement to reduce nuclear proliferation and the spread of nuclear energy.

If I were the conspiratorial type, I'd almost think the members of the lunatic fringe are actually agents of the nuclear industry the way they work to discredit the rational wing.

But I know that's not the case, and that some people just don't understand science.

[longship]

32. Your hypothesis may still be operative.

Or, maybe it's just the lunatic fringe, anti-government everything (and BTW, everything is government), conspiracy crowd.

(I know you posited the hypothesis to merely tweak noses. Fun!)

[RobertEarl]

38. Fun?

That's all that commenter is, is Fun?

Some people have the f'n weirdest way of having fun.

So I see you are back again, longship, with your same old bs of "Nothing to see here, move along, everyone who does not see it my way or the nuke power bastards way is loony" schtick?

This is your idea of fun?

[NuclearDem]

42. Well, might as well just have some fun with it.

Since you seem totally uninterested in moving beyond radiophobic talking points and citing batshit crazy websites.

[longship]

45. I despise nuclear energy.

But I love science. My degree is in physics which is why I have both those stands.

There's too damned much pseudoscience here about Fukushima Daiichi.

No! The sea stars are not melting from Fukushima.

No! The entire Pacific Ocean is not glowing green with neutron decay.

The fish are more endangered by other things we're putting in the ocean, especially CO2, than what is coming out of Fukushima Daiichi.

Not everything is a god damned government or corporate conspiracy. Most scientists are academics and do not interact with either government or corporations. They have low pay, but they have a passion for their work which they very much care to execute and report accurately. The peer review takes care of the outliers.

Some people would have everything they disagree with being a conspiracy. You know, the Alex Jones type. Or Arnie Gundersen.

I can't go there. I have to let the science speak for itself. Then, I form an opinion.

Frankly, Robert, some of the claims I have seen posted here about Fukushima are fucking nuts, with no credible plausibility. The sea star shit, for instance. The fake map, another. And many other things.

Why would anybody against nuclear energy want to make shit up? What purpose would that serve? The science is what the science is. When one makes stuff up one loses credibility when it is revealed to be incorrect. How does that help the cause?

I am with you against nuclear power. One does not need to have the city of San Francisco dissolving into the Pacific -- or sea stars for that matter -- to make a cogent and scientifically accurate argument against nuclear power. Let's leave it at that.

[RobertEarl]

47. You are the only one making stuff up

I don't know why you do, but you do.

You post not one link to any science. NOT ONE. Your posts are mere emotional blurbs with a high dose of utter bs.

[NuclearDem]

48. Actually, you were banned from E&E largely because you were making shit up and spamming it.

[RobertEarl]

56. You should not tell lies like that

I think people can see why I am ignoring your bs.

But I had to reply to your slander.

Not slander? Back it up. Prove it.

Now go away. Shooo...

[NuclearDem]

59. Trust me, I read through those threads in E&E

And their copycats in GD.

The other anti-nuclear posters were sick and tired of having to constantly deal with that nonsense. Thus, you were banned.

[RobertEarl]

62. That's not true

This will be my last reply to you.

I was banned because I did not ignore PamW, who was banned for bs like you do. I should just ignore you, but you follow me around posting crap behind me. And here, you post more crap. You should be ashamed, but you are shameless, eh?

This is verbatim from the host who blocked me from E&E, which actually is a blessing.

XemaSab
Re: What did I do now?

Mail Message
I asked you to put PamW on ignore.

You did not do this.

You are now blocked.

-XS

[pintobean]

90. Umm... dude

you followed NuclearDem into this thread.

Just sayin'

[RobertEarl]

91. I love you guys following me!!

What sucks is yall posting bs.

Thanks for kicking.

[pintobean]

92. Umm... dude

it's not your thread. I'm more than happy to kick zappaman's thread.

My post was factual. I don't know how you define bs, but it appears that you're doing it wrong.

[NuclearDem]

93. Bwahahaha

Yet another Fuku thread I need to bookmark for later laughs.

[RobertEarl]

94. Well, I pretty much owned this thread.

I am the only one posting real factual information about the subject.

You can now follow that or just keep diverting from the subject.

Clearly, Fukushima has had an impact on the world. And since it is not contained, the impacts are increasing. Just consider that billions of dollars are spent by the industry to contain the nuclear material. They spend all that money because the stuff is deadly.

Now what we have are at least 3 containment facilities in failure mode and that crap is spreading around the world and being dumped into the Pacific.

You have a problem with that?

[NuclearDem]

95. You have an odd definition of owned.

[pintobean]

100. owned

The act of having your ass handed to you repeatedly.
owned

[pintobean]

97. You pretty much owned this thread?

You're still doing it wrong.

[RobertEarl]

101. Actually, I stole it

As always, they set 'em up and I knock 'em down.

I see you have nothing to say about the OP? Or Fukushima? I guess you consider me to be more of a threat than Fukushima?

[zappaman]

103. No, but you certainly are WAY more amusing!

[zappaman]

99. You certainly have owned this thread

But not in the way you think!

[maddezmom]

110. LOL!

[longship]

49. Sorry, my friend.

I cannot go down the rabbit hole you are going down.

In the end, we'll see how this turns out.

I hope for the best. It seems like you may be hoping for the worst. Maybe that's the difference between us.

My regards to you.

[RobertEarl]

53. Going?

I am not hoping for the worst. The worst would be that people listen to you and hide from the science and when it hits home they are unaware and surprised.

There are serious scientists who are studying the plumes in the pacific. Links above lead to their efforts. Here's one now, again:

"The release of radioactive contaminants from Fukushima remains an unprecedented event for the people of Japan and the Pacific Ocean. Help scientists at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution reveal the ongoing spread of radiation across the Pacific and its evolving impacts on the ocean."
http://www.ourradioactiveocean.org/


Your style is just like that of the GW deniers who reject the science. Sad.

[Generic Other]

138. If you call bleeding out a patient management

Looks like mismanagement to me.

[JJChambers]

130. Fukushima is a non-issue. Propoganda, conspiracy and tinfoil abound.

[X_Digger]

115. and and and time traveling radiation affecting them, too! ;) n/t

[Orrex]

137. Go ahead and laugh

But I have it on good authority that a large number of starfish are being born with [font size=5]FIVE[/font] limbs.

How do you explain that, if it isn't the radiation? Hmm?

[truedelphi]

2. And who says the Big Nuke industry doesn't have the ability to slant

The news.

We all know that the air in, near and above Japan stays in Japan, just like scandalous happenings stay in Vegas.

[zappaman]

3. I guess they paid off the scientists

The research group Kelp Watch 2014 this week concluded in a statement that "the West Coast shoreline shows no signs of ocean-borne radiation from Japan's [2011] Fukushima nuclear power plant disaster." Woo-hoo!

Kelp Watch is a collaboration between Steven Manley, marine biology professor at Cal State Long Beach, and Kai Vetter a nuclear physics and engineering guru at both the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and UC Berkeley.

[truedelphi]

17. Unless you actually travel to see the scientists and talk to them, you don't have any

Way of knowing what is going on.

Believe me, Big Industry with its Big Control over the press can do as it wants, and have articles that mis-quote, in entirety, the actual conclusions and words of the scientists.

here is what I found over a period of years that happened on another Big Industry issue (The MTBE gas additive issue) :

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/06/22/540267/-The-TRUTH-Versus-the-Mainstream-Media

[NuclearDem]

11. Isn't it funny how the only cooked books and bogus studies tend to be on the other side?

If it doesn't confirm my beliefs, it's propaganda!

And Lord knows no one on the fringes of the anti-nuke movement would ever, say, misrepresent studies or make utterly hyperbolic claims.

[longship]

80. Nobody would be so stupid as to claim sea star wasting was from Fukushima!

Especially since it was a known problem going back to the late 70's.

But... But... But... Fukushima!!!!!

These arguments remind me of the Bengazi deal.

[RobertEarl]

84. The pacific has been radiated for a long time

Even your NuclearDem says so here:

75. Uh. Huh.

If that was a cause for concern, why stop eating now? The radiation off the West Coast is actually attributed to mid-20th nuclear testing, not Fukushima.


So if the starfish were in the pacific in the 70's, and the Pacific was radiated in the 70's like Nuclear Dem says, radiation as a cause is not stupid.

It's called science, try it sometime.

[mindwalker_i]

4. Damnit, I put those marshmallows out for nothing

No I'll have to go back to San Bruno in the Bay Area and wait for PG&E.

[MohRokTah]

6. Tinfoil keeps the Fukishima radiation out.

[PumpkinAle]

9. This is great.

But beware of heat - you may roast!

[herding cats]

12. At least you'll roast evenly and come out juicy and tender.

[dionysus]

23. a real investigative journalist would cut you down to size...

[951-Riverside]

26. Keep breathing that WTC dust, all is fine. Nothing to worry about. Everything is gonna be fine

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0823-03.htm

[longship]

36. Non-sequitur.

1. The study was an academic one, not a government one.

2. The results are in line with what is expected. In other words, this is not a surprise.

3. Buildings falling in South Manhattan affecting those in South Manhattan is not the same as radioactive water being released into the world's largest ocean more than 5,000 miles away.

The only ones surprised and screeching about it are those, who for some strange and possibly perverse reason want the Fukushima Daiichi disaster to be much, much worse than it is. They want San Francisco to liquefy and dissolve into the ocean or something.

They took near absolute glee that sea stars are melting. (Sorry, still not radiation.)

It's like some of the anti-fracking people who, when a California earthquake was reported, asked whether there was fracking. I don't like fracking, but I know enough science to understand that plate tectonics causes most earthquakes.

Some people here don't know enough science to understand dilution and dispersion. They apparently think that anything Fukushima Daiichi does could pollute the entire Pacific Ocean five thousand miles away. The science illiteracy boggles the mind.

[RobertEarl]

46. The science says

There is more than one oceanographer who is worried about the polluted waters from Fukushima landing in California. Would you, to their faces, use your slander to tell them they are science illiterates?

No, LS, it is you who has just proven you are the one who is illiterate when it comes to the science of the Fukushima plume. Willingly illiterate, it seems.

There is no one who wishes Fukushima was worse than it is. Claiming there are some who do wish that is merely a figment of your imagination.

[longship]

51. The sea star crap was science illiteracy.

So was the fake map of radiation that turned out to be the tsunami projection map.

So was a lot of things posted here. High radioactivity in fish! Nope, barely trace levels.

Etc.

But long after all the fake doom and gloom stuff is falsified, the people from Fukushima prefecture will likely still have an exclusion zone where they cannot go back to their homes. While people weave their conspiracies and wring their hands about made up radioactive glowing surf on the west coast of North America, the people really effected by this are the ones I think of.

Some would have a uncaring Japanese government, apparently controlled by TEPCO, not only not caring about the world, but not caring about their own citizens. I assure you that the Japanese government very much cares about this. We even have DUers who live there who could fill people in on that.

In the end, I want this to work out in the best way, but I am worried that it is likely going to take a very long time to secure the Fukushima Daiichi site. I am not worried about the west coast, though. Five thousand miles of ocean is a helluva buffer. (Some here think it's five feet, apparently.) But it is going to be tough for the Japanese for some time.

[RobertEarl]

54. Read this

Quote:

The release of radioactive contaminants from Fukushima remains an unprecedented event for the people of Japan and the Pacific Ocean. Help scientists at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution reveal the ongoing spread of radiation across the Pacific and its evolving impacts on the ocean.

http://www.ourradioactiveocean.org/

[NuclearDem]

57. Oh my good God, why are you citing the welcome page like it means anything?

Why not the current results, which show radiation levels in water off California, Oregon, Washington, BC, and Alaska to be exactly within the limits WHOI expected based off of the Pacific nuclear testing?

[longship]

61. From the site: OurRadioactiveOcean?

Sounds like a very objective site.

Actually, sounds more like begging the question.

So this Web Site, registered under the name Our Radioactive Oceans is an unbiased scientific site?



Why didn't they just name it Our Deadly Oceans and get it over with?

(Of course, the oceans are deadly. But not bloody likely from radioactivity. And certainly not five thousand miles from Fukushima Daiichi.)

I know. Basic science is hard.

[NuclearDem]

64. Well, it actually is a WHOI project.

I can see how the name makes it look bogus, but check out its current results. Exactly what WHOI expected from the mid-20th century nuclear testing, not Fukushima.

So he's basically citing a website that says the exact opposite of whatever point he's trying to make.

[longship]

69. I am on an iPhone here.

It was not loading. I will check it tomorrow.

[RobertEarl]

65. Good Gawd

You just skinned yourself. You write:

""61. From the site: OurRadioactiveOcean?

Sounds like a very objective site.

Actually, sounds more like begging the question.

So this Web Site, registered under the name Our Radioactive Oceans is an unbiased scientific site?



Why didn't they just name it Our Deadly Oceans and get it over with?

(Of course, the oceans are deadly. But not bloody likely from radioactivity. And certainly not five thousand miles from Fukushima Daiichi.)

I know. Basic science is hard.""

LS, the website is sanctioned by the Woods Hole Institute. Just the premier oceanography organization in the whole f'n US.

Good Gawd, you just showed yourself to be the worst of everything you have been saying about everyone else.

[longship]

71. Personal again?

Please Robert, argue the point, not the person.

I confess, the site would not load for me. I only have an iPhone here in the North woods. My bandwidth and downloads are limited.

I will be back tomorrow when things might be better.

And for Christ sakes, stop the personal attacks. I do not mind discussion with you, but you really do need to put a lid on that.

I would much appreciate that.

[RobertEarl]

73. Go to bed

You have lost any credibility. Blaming it on your iphone? Bwahahaha.

[longship]

77. Bye Robert. Pshaw!

[zappaman]

89. At least he is prepared!

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/videos/prepper-profile-robert-earl/

[NuclearDem]

79. You know, that site wouldn't load on my iPhone.

For Christ's sake Robert, haven't you done enough damage to yourself and the rest of the anti-nuclear movement tonight? Give it a fucking rest already.

[FreedRadical]

55. Why do you work so hard to tell us not to worry or believe?

Most here may not fully understand the science, but we understand risk and danger. If you are saying there is no risk or danger, I don't believe you.

[longship]

58. Of course, there is risk.

But some here have set their hair on fire because they frequent sources which make up stuff and spew conspiracy nonsense. Meanwhile the science says otherwise.

No, it does not say that Fukushima Daiichi is not a huge cataclysm. But the science also says that the sea star melting is not radioactivity, and the fish caught off of the west coast are safe.

When one challenges some here on the science, they start the conspiracy theories. That's never a good sign for an argument, let alone science.

Thanks for the question.

BTW, I am against nuclear power. I just hate seeing the science being perverted by ideology. The science is what it is.

[RobertEarl]

60. What is killing the sea stars?

You don't know.

I made the case that radiation should be studied.

All you have is emotion. No science, just emotion. And other bs.

[longship]

67. Please do not make this personal.

This is not about me or you.

This is about the science.

Apparently the sea stars are infected by some disease. It is happening in both hemispheres and it predates Fukushima by some years. But you already know that since it has been posted here before. So it is not radiation, and certainly not from Fukushima.

There is a lot of problems with shell fish, too. At over 400 ppm CO2 in the atmosphere, more is dissolving into the oceans, which makes the water more acidic. The shell fish metabolism is such that it cannot take in enough stuff to build shells. The shells thin. The shell fish die. But that's climate change, not Fukushima. And it's happening all over the place. Google "ocean acidification" if you are interested. It is a big problem as shell fish are a good part of the ocean food chain.

I have not heard that the sea star problem is acidification. The last thing I read is that it is a disease of some sort. Radiation was ruled out as the radiation from Fukushima on the west coast is minimal from every independent study I have seen from a reputable source. (In other words, not just some dude with a Geiger counter like that one YouTube video.)

That's all for tonight. It's late. And I am going to turn in soon.

Regards.

[RobertEarl]

70. Don't make it personal?

You are a slick one, fer sure.

So, you don't know what is killing the sea stars. Radiation has not been ruled out. If it had been ruled out, you'd post a link saying so.

[longship]

76. Of course radiation has been ruled out.

It started before fucking Fukushima!!!!

For Christ-sakes, Robert, you have Google, too.

Here: http://www.thelog.com/SNW/Article/Mysterious-Disease-Continues-to-Plague-Starfish

There make no mention of radiation. And they site cases going back to the late 70's.

Forget the sea star/Fukushima link. There is no there there.

[RobertEarl]

83. Radiation has not been ruled out

The nuclear testing in the Pacific started in the 50's, so the Pacific has been radioactive off and on since then.

Look, LS, you don't know much about any of this. You should go to bed and then go read Enenews.com in the morning.

[NickB79]

134. Sea stars are dying in the Atlantic as well

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130723134250.htm

Why are sea stars dying from New Jersey to Maine? Divers asked to report large groupings of starfish

And very few nuclear tests were ever done in the Atlantic compared to the Pacific.

PLUS, the wasting syndrome occurs sporadically, independent of any correlation with nuclear testing, every decade or two, after which the sea star population recovers. The last large outbreak occurred in the 1990's, long after the peak of Pacific nuclear bomb testing in the 50's and 60's.

Thus, YES, radiation has been ruled out.

[RobertEarl]

135. 1990's you say?

You mean a few years after Chernobyl?

Did you know the east coast of the US did get its fair share of Fuku-plume?

Radiation has not been ruled out. But if you can find a link to a science based website that claims that radiation was intensively studied and found to have no effect, I'm sure you will inform us.

[NuclearDem]

136. Oh now that I'm going to need evidence of.

Did you know the east coast of the US did get its fair share of Fuku-plume?

Because otherwise, that's a goddamn ridiculous statement. The West Coast was barely affected by even airborne particles, and now the East Coast got "its fair share of Fuku-plume"?

You're the one making the claim that radiation is a cause for the die off, which means YOU provide the evidence. It's not anyone's job to provide evidence to the contrary.

You'd know that if you had the faintest grasp on any scientific field.

[RobertEarl]

145. Here ya go, all sourced with further links

Here's a bit of reading to do. This is directly from the admin of Enenews.com

http://enenews.com/bizarre-creature-turned-50-mile-stretch-of-california-coast-into-graveyard-in-summer-2011-govt-biologist-die-offs-like-this-very-rare-weve-never-seen-it-here-abalone/comment-page-1#comment-518076

1) "There is time needed to cause genetic changes"

>> It appears the scientists conclude the genetic changes took place "suddenly" after something "virtually unheard of" in that part of the world appeared in 2011 and then retreated. From the SF Chronicle article: "a species of phytoplankton virtually unheard of in this part of the world… Its modus operandi… is to suddenly appear… then retreat into tiny invasion-of-the-body-snatcher-type pods until ocean conditions are ripe for another rampage."

2) "Would the ocean current have had time to impact California coast"

>> In 2011, the California coast was impacted by fallout transported through the air and then the subsequent run-off, not contamination transported by ocean currents.

*40,000,000 Bq of iodine-131 in a single bed of kelp off California in March 2011
http://enenews.com/40000000-bq-of-iodine-131-in-a-single-bed-of-kelp-off-southern-california-amount-most-likely-larger

*California kelp had 2,500 Bq/kg of iodine-131 in seaweed in March 2011
http://enenews.com/california-2500-bqkg-iodine-131-seaweed-500-higher-other-tests-canada

*Kelp Study Author: California iodine-131 probably double or triple what we reported
http://enenews.com/study-author-california-iodine-131-underestimated-probably-double-or-triple-what-we-reported-it%E2%80%99s-not-a-good-thing-dispersed-over-a-variety-of-organisms

*Ocean water collected near the coast of Santa Barbara County on on March 22, 2011 had 14.7 Bq/m³ of cesium-134 and -137.
http://enenews.com/tv-at-height-of-fukushima-emergency-in-the-very-spot-in-california-where-the-radioactive-plume-was-forecast-to-hit-had-no-working-monitors-foia-email-shows-epa-decided-not-to-deploy-radnet-to

*Sr. Scientist: Most shocking thing is how US gov’t was “very concerned” about Fukushima radiation hitting West Coast and affecting Americans — Public told that everything fine (VIDEO)
http://enenews.com/tv-most-shocking-thing-i-found-is-how-us-govt-was-very-concerned-about-fukushima-radiation-hitting-west-coast-and-affecting-americans-public-told-nothing-video

*U. of California Dean: We detected “far more than I expected” of Fukushima radioactive sulfur in March 2011 — “Unprecedented increase” reported
http://enenews.com/university-dean-we-detected-far-more-than-i-expected-of-fukushima-radioactive-sulfur-in-san-diego-after-311-unprecedented-increase-reported-by-chemists-statement-to-media-i-d

[zappaman]

139. "Did you know the east coast of the US did get its fair share of Fuku-plume?"

No I didn't.
I'm sure you will supply the links, right?
Weird how it hasn't been detected on the west coast, but according to you, it has been detected on the east coast!
I wonder how that happened?
Maybe the radiation took a direct flight on Virgin from Tokyo to NY?

[RobertEarl]

140. Evidence of airborne depositions

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110407121343.htm

""Since the double disaster of the 9.0 magnitude earthquake and tsunami that affected hundreds of thousands of people and seriously damaged the Fukushima Daichi power plant in Japan on 11 March 2011, minute traces of radioactive emissions from Fukushima have spread across the entire Northern Hemisphere. A monitoring network designed to detect signs of nuclear explosions picked up these traces from the stricken power plant. To date, more than 30 radionuclide stations that are part of the International Monitoring System have provided information on the spread of radioactive particles and noble gases from the Fukushima accident.""

*************************



In this report from the DOE, US government, it is described why they test for radioisotopes, where they test, when they test and some test findings. Note the excerpted listing for plutonium found in the mussels that were tested. This finding confirms the idea that plutonium can be passed up the food chain to the starfish.

http://www.lm.doe.gov/Amchitka/Sites.aspx

Title: Department of Energy: Biological Monitoring at Amchitka Appears to Show Impacts from Fukushima Dai-ichi Incident.

The U.S. Department of Energy Office Legacy Management (LM) has a long-term stewardship mission to protect human health and the environment from the legacy of underground nuclear testing conducted at Amchitka Island, Alaska, from 1965 to 1971.

Atmospheric monitoring in the United States showed elevated cesium activities shortly after the nuclear incident. LM scientists anticipated that atmospheric transport of cesium would potentially increase the cesium activities in the 2011 biological samples collected near Amchitka. Because cesium-134 has a relatively short half-life of 2 years and indicates leakage from a nuclear reactor, it is a clear indicator of a recent nuclear accident.

Because the Amchitka 2011 sampling event occurred soon after the Fukushima nuclear accident, the biota impacted by atmospheric precipitation showed the greatest impact (e.g., species that live in freshwater or shallow ocean waters) when compared to marine biota living in deeper water. This is because ocean currents are a slower transport process than wind currents. LM scientists anticipate that the marine biota will show the impacts of Fukushima during the next sampling event, currently scheduled to occur in 2016.

(One snip from report about the amounts found pg 226)

* Plutonium-239 — 4.194 pCi/kg Horse Mussel tissue

[zappaman]

142. I think this poster handles it quite nicely

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024936258#post63

[NickB79]

144. Chernobyl's fallout blew from east to west

IE, most of it's contaminants spread out over western Europe and finally into the North Atlantic in the immediate aftermath of the meltdown. That's why farmers were dumping milk and killing sheep in northern Europe in the weeks and months following Chernobyl, for example.

The 1990's sea star dieoff I mentioned occurred in the PACIFIC ocean, but not in the Atlantic, despite the Atlantic taking the lion's share of whatever fallout didn't rain down over western Europe. Very little of Chernobyl's radiation even came close to the Pacific Ocean, what with all of Asia in it's way.

So yes, that particular dieoff can pretty easily be ruled out as due to radiation poisoning, given the haphazard distribution pattern seen in relation to the fallout spread.

[X_Digger]

116. Well we know what it isn't.. radiation from Fukushima. Unless it's time traveling radiation.

See? One item crossed off the list.

[RobertEarl]

117. That's dumb

The Pacific has been dosed with radiation time and time again. The weapons testing polluted the pacific many times.

The dumb response of 'time travel' bs is just a denial of facts, yet some of you just can't resist showing your denial over and over again.

Radiation has not been discounted. The scientist still have not concluded what is causing the wastings. Radiation is still in play as a cause.

[X_Digger]

118. Radiation from Fukushima certainly can be discounted. Unless it can travel backwards in time.

See, things that happen after can't affect things before.

And unless we're in the Star Trek universe, chroniton radiation doesn't exist.

[RobertEarl]

120. Prove it.

The worst outbreak ever occurred right after Fukushima blew and radiation wafted over and hit the coast. Cesium was recorded in the monitors.

In years past, minor wastings occurred and no reasons were found to be the cause. Wasting causes are still an 'Official mystery'.

Radiation could be discounted but it has not been discounted. Were a scientist to declare radiation as a factor, that scientist would be blacklisted and never funded again.

[NuclearDem]

121. 1) You don't prove negatives.

2) That sound of hooves isn't coming from a unicorn. It's not like there have been other changes affecting the oceans since the 1970s.

[FreedRadical]

63. You have been saying the science is bad,

but you don't back that contention with science. You simply discount the science. I believe the truth doesn't need too much help. The truth can stand on its own. It is when someone is working vary hard to convince me of the truth, I believe they are not being truthful. I live on the left coast. Why should I be OK with what you are saying?

[NuclearDem]

66. Because there are people who have spent most of their lives studying oceanography or radiation

who have examined the findings from the West Coast and the Pacific who reasonably believe it's safe.

[FreedRadical]

72. It's NOT safe.

That much CAN NOT be disputed. What they give us is ranges of relative safety. Depending on who is paying for the studies, relative safety ranges fluctuate. Then what? How do you protect yourself? I guess I should sit back and let you argue. Then look back over the evidence, and try to make some kind of informed choice. This shit sucks. At this time I am not eating ocean fish.

[NuclearDem]

75. Uh. Huh.

If that was a cause for concern, why stop eating now? The radiation off the West Coast is actually attributed to mid-20th nuclear testing, not Fukushima.

So actually, the fish off the West Coast are safer now than they've ever been WRT cesium.

There are levels of radiation which are--ah fuck it, I'm not doing this again. Just Google absorbed/effective/equivalent dose.

[FreedRadical]

78. Cool.

[RobertEarl]

68. Longship is way out there

I posted a link to a renowned institute that is studying the matter, he didn't even read the post, but he did slander the institute mentioned in the post.

He's so far out there nothing he says should be even considered.

Oh, we've been round and round before, me and LS, and he never post anything of any science, just emotions, like Nuclear Dem, they both have nothing worth considering.

Here is what the WHOI says on their site:

"The release of radioactive contaminants from Fukushima remains an unprecedented event for the people of Japan and the Pacific Ocean. Help scientists at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution reveal the ongoing spread of radiation across the Pacific and its evolving impacts on the ocean."

You are wise to be concerned, FreedRadical. As is the WHOI.

[FreedRadical]

74. I want to ask you RobertEarl, why are you fighting so hard too.

If you believe what you are saying, SAY IT. Provide links. Discount the woo. We are thinking people. There is a lot to go back over in this thread. Is it truthful? If so, thank you. I have been talking with my friends and family about this. I don't want to look like chicken little. What small steps can we take to protect ourselves.

[RobertEarl]

82. Why fight?

I have been an environmental activist for 30 years. This is the biggest issue the environment has ever been confronted with. Many lives hang in the balance. I have studied this situation intensely for 3 years now.

If people are not aware, this will sneak up on them and they'll be left wondering WTF happened. Too, the continued use of nukes is a continuing danger to the environment and all its species. The waste issue is only a 10,000 year issue, and in the meantime if the power goes out at any of our nuke power plants, we will have our own Fukushima right here.

What I don't get is the opposition to the established science as exposed on this thread. I probably should just ignore it, but then there are many who need to know what's coming down, and so that opposition in a way carries the threads which release more info. See my journal for other nuke threads.

As far as what to personally do? I'll not give much advice on that. All I can do is bring forth my limited knowledge and say that for more go to Enenews.com. But beware, the info there is a bitter pill which may leave you wishing you were still ignorant and unaware. I've been reading Enenews.com for two years now and post there all the time.

The news is not good. As you are aware.

[FreedRadical]

86. Thanks.

[RobertEarl]

87. Nuke industry is known for lies

The industry is big money. A plant cost billions to build and generates many more billions in revenue. Too, they create plutonium which is used in weapons, so there is that evil deeply entrenched in the industry.

There is a reason above ground nuclear weapon testing was halted. Because the science said that radiation was killing life on the planet.

As you have read here, the Pacific was clearly radiated many years ago. Testing was halted in the 70's and that radiation has just about been dispersed around the world. Now, with Chernobyl and Fukushima, much more radiation has been introduced to our atmosphere. And, like the WHOI has claimed, Fukushima is unprecedented and is great cause for concern when it comes to life in the Pacific.

[951-Riverside]

107. Radioactive cesium-137 released from Fukushima 1.5 times Tepco estimate: study

You didnt see this article, it doesnt exist. Keep breathing that WTC dust, nothing to worry about.

VIENNA – The total amount of radioactive cesium-137 released into the atmosphere and seawater from the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant is estimated at between 17,500 and 20,500 terabecquerels, a study by a Japanese research team showed Friday.

The team’s finding on the cumulative amount of cesium-137 is nearly 1.5 times more than the estimate by plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. of less than 13,600 terabecquerels.

The team announced its findings on cesium-137 during an academic session of the European Geosciences Union in Vienna on geoscience processes related to the Fukushima nuclear disaster.

Michio Aoyama, a professor at Fukushima University’s Institute of Environmental Radioactivity who is part of the team, told Kyodo News that TEPCO “underestimates” the amount of cesium-137 that was released into the atmosphere and later fell into the sea.

Scientists are trying to detect the levels of radioactive cesium due to its potential, long-term risks to the land and sea. Cesium-137, which has a half-life of around 30 years, can cause cancer.

The total amount of cesium-137 differs based on researchers’ estimates but Aoyama has expressed confidence about the data his team gathered and analyzed, saying theirs is the “most probable” figure as it is based on actual measured data.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/05/10/national/radioactive-cesium-137-released-from-fukushima-1-5-times-tepco-estimate-study/

[WinkyDink]

88. Have fun!

[SidDithers]

96. What am I going to do with all this iodine...

and shelf-stable milk?

Sid

[zappaman]

102. Sounds like you could be on DOOMSDAY PREPPERS!

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/videos/prepper-profile-robert-earl/

[SidDithers]

104. Oh wow. That's awesome...

Sid

[RobertEarl]

105. Just so you know

I am a whole lot better looking than zappaman's RE idol, about whom z has posted, what 5 times now?

I find it a bit disconcerting that z has me on their mind all the time. I guess I have made a deep and everlasting impression on z?

[hobbit709]

108. People post about Louie Gohmert all the time but I wouldn't call him their idol.

[zappaman]

111. Louie Gohmert is awesome!

But not a doomsday prepper so not my idol.

[dem in texas]

106. Yes, and Fracking isn't causing earthquakes in Oklahoma

[zappaman]

112. Pretty sure that's a completly different subject.

Here is a great recipe for chili!

Ingredients:
2 teaspoons oil
2 onions, chopped
3 cloves garlic, minced
1 lb lean ground beef
3/4 lb beef sirloin, cubed
1 (14 1/2 ounce) can diced tomatoes
1 can dark beer
1 cup strong coffee
2 (6 ounce) cans tomato paste
1 can beef broth
1/2 cup brown sugar
3 1/2 tablespoons chili sauce
1 tablespoon cumin
1 tablespoon cocoa
1 teaspoon oregano
1 teaspoon cayenne
1 teaspoon coriander
1 teaspoon salt
4 (15 ounce) cans kidney beans
4 chili peppers, chopped

Directions:

Heat oil.

Cook onions, garlic and meat until brown.

Add tomatoes, beer, coffee, tomato paste and beef broth.

Add spices Stir in 2 cans of kidney beans and peppers.

Reduce heat and simmer for 1 1/2 hours.

Add 2 remaining cans of kidney beans and simmer for another 30 minutes.

[pintobean]

113. That's bullshit, zappaman

First, I don't like dark beer, and B, who buys dark beer in a can?

The fact that your recipe doesn't list an acceptable substitute from a bottle is pure bs.

[zappaman]

114. Cans are in these days.

[NM_Birder]

143. I've got one too ! "Unemployment is less than 7%"

[meanit]

109. The radiation just disappeared! It's magic!

Just like all that oil in the Gulf. That just disappeared too!

Maybe radiation isn't really radioactive .... it might just be a "hoax" to steal our freedoms.

[closeupready]

119. If it's real, why CAN'T YOU SEE IT?! Huh? HUH?

[Gravitycollapse]

123. Oil is a viscous, sticky, hydrophobic material...

Meaning that when a large quantity of it is dropped into water, it will clump up and persist regardless of timespan.

Whereas radioactive material in water will disperse over time.

[chervilant]

128. This strikes me as a NIMBY post...

"Don't worry about Fukushima, because 'it's not in MY back yard!'" It's not going to affect US, because

5,000 miles!!!

Pacific Ocean!!!

Trillions of gallons of seawater!!!

Yeah, all that makes me feel SOOOOOO much better! (Sarcasm, jic)

Having been an anti-nuke activist since I was 17, I have learned not to trust entities like TEPCO, the IAEA, and various governments bent on promoting nuclear energy in spite of the substantial and LONG-term risks.

We have no frame of reference for the consequences of the Fukushima disaster. Perhaps, watching "The Battle of Chernobyl" would give the NIMBY crowd some idea of how bad it will likely be...

[zappaman]

129. It actually is in my back yard

since I just got back from surfing an hour ago in the Pacific.
Waves were pretty good thanks to all the wind, but the water still very cold.

[chervilant]

132. You're in Japan?

Are you proximal to the Fukushima Prefecture? Are you privy to any verifiable news that the M$M is avoiding?

[zappaman]

133. Los Angeles

Which is what the OP is about.