Mother Jones-This Is What a Holy Shit Moment for Global Warming Looks Like

[Lady Freedom Returns]

According to two new studies, the collapse of much of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet may now be irreversible. That could ultimately mean 10 feet of sea level rise.

—By Chris Mooney
| Mon May 12, 2014 5:07 PM EDT

If you truly understand global warming, then you know it's all about the ice. That's what matters. Planet Earth has not always had great ice sheets at the poles, of the sort that currently exist atop Greenland and Antarctica. In other periods, much of that water has instead been in liquid form, in the oceans—and the oceans have been much higher.

How much? According to the National Academy of Sciences, the globe's great ice sheets contain enough frozen water to raise sea levels worldwide by more than 60 meters. That's about 200 feet. And it makes all the sea level rise that we've seen so far due to global warming appear piddly and insignificant.

That's why scientists have long feared a day like this would come. Two new scientific papers, in the journals Science and Geophysical Research Letters, report that major glaciers that are part of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet appear to have become irrevocably destabilized. The whole process may still play out on the scale of centuries, but due to the particular dynamics of this ice sheet, the collapse of these major glaciers now "appears unstoppable," according to NASA (whose researchers are behind one of the two studies).

This Antarctic glacier may be history, says new research. It contains almost two feet of sea level rise, and that's just the beginning. NASA.

Read more @ http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/05/west-antarctic-ice-sheet-collapse?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+motherjones%2Fmain+%28MotherJones.com+Main+Article+Feed%29&utm_content=FaceBook

[abelenkpe]

1. Do other nations have climate change deniers

or is that something unique to the US?

[n2doc]

2. Wherever Murdoch owns a piece of the press, they are significant

US, UK, Australia.....

see

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/10/05/968221/study-american-newspapers-give-far-more-coverage-to-climate-deniers-and-skeptics-than-other-countries/

[abelenkpe]

3. Thank you! nt

[Prophet 451]

6. We got some here (UK)

They don't get much press though.

[intaglio]

12. Lord Monckton is nominally British

... to our eternal shame

[nomorenomore08]

23. At least I can take comfort that right-wing idiot politicians aren't unique to my native U.S.

Hell, even the Netherlands has Geert Wilders.

[hatrack]

26. But, alas for him, not even a Lord . . .

Just another preening, posing little Lord Fauntleroy, heir to the Barony of Ignorantum.

[intaglio]

34. Technically he is an Hereditary Lord but

He is not and cannot be a member of the House of Lords, nor can he use the symbol of a portcullis to imply that he is such a person.

The title has only been in existence since 1957, so not exactly an ancient family ...

[mindwalker_i]

4. Well it won't affect us in our lifetimes

So we can all just go back to watching TV.

Our kids can cover the poles with refrigerators, along with some coal-burning power plants, to keep more from melting.

[Control-Z]

5. Ever see a large chunck of ice

not melt in a glass of water?

Climate change deniers who should, and probably do, know better are criminal.

[central scrutinizer]

10. Reminds me of Oxyrush's analogy:

"When the ice cube in your drink melts, does the glass overflow? No, of course not, so we have nothing to fear from global warming, even if it isn't a socialist hoax." And the dittoheads would nod approvingly, not realizing that most of the ice is sitting on land, not in the water so the analogy is completely wrong.

[WinstonSmith4740]

11. Not only that...

The analogy is wrong on other levels, also. But since we're talking about RW noise machines here, we shouldn't be surprised that they don't understand that the ice is displacing it's own mass in water, so as it melts, the water level would remain the same in a glass. But along with Bill Kristol and Charles Krauthammer, has this doofus ever been right about anything?

[Jerry442]

13. It's true, the melting of floating ice wouldn't directly raise sea levels.

Central Scrutinizer is right. Thing is, open water reflects way less of the sun's heat back into space than floating ice, so there is an indirect bad effect.

Of course, if ice supported by land masses melts, then we're straight up screwed.

[WinstonSmith4740]

25. Oh, absolutely!

Scrutinizer is right. And since the Antarctic ice cap IS over land mass (at least the east side is)any melting is going to screw us badly. I think Chris Hayes actually hit it right last night. The republican line all along has been "this isn't happening...BENGHAZI"...now it's, OK it's happening, but it's too late to do anything about it.

[DLnyc]

17. interesting point. Sounds like an opportunity for a very large class-action suit.

Calculable Damages: somewhere in the multiple trillions, say $60,000,000,000,000 as a rough estimate.
Wide Class of Individuals Affected: all of humanity, plus all the other species on Earth.
Deep Pockets to Sue: start with Murdoch, Koch Brothers, Exxon Mobil, and a few other big fat perpetrators.

[Control-Z]

24. Yes. This.

I'm really, really for free speech. But when the (republican) leaders of our country, and those who buy them, tell lies for profit causing mass destruction, it should be treated as the criminal act it is. Jail the politicians - fine them their net worth. Sue the billionaires into poverty (jail them too). Use the proceeds for research into clean up.

[RVN VET]

55. If that could actually happen I would die a happy man

But the rich control the laws and the enforcement of the laws, and the people are just not into massive mob action -- storming the Bastille, or, in our case, the mansions and towers of Murdoch, Kochs, Adelsons, etc.

We are screwed and the ones bringing it about will all be dead of natural (!!) causes before the finale.

[WinkyDink]

35. All the money in the world is pointless in this case.

[erronis]

45. Righto. Greenbacks worthless when this happens

Bank accounts - hah. Gold, gems - probably also not worth much (unless you can satisfy your hunger with diamonds.)

Survivalist stuff - maybe good for a year or so but eventually most of us will go the way of all flesh.

If we ever get around to prosecuting the schemers and liars that made this situation possible, I don't think fines or even white-collar prisons are adequate punishment.

[Prophet 451]

7. Game over then. n/t

[McDiggy]

8. They are all over the world.

Unfortunately, crazy and stupid isn't unique to the US.

[DirkGently]

9. Chris Hayes pointed out last night

... that now the deniers are just smoothly shifting gears to say that now it's to late too anything.

We are at the mercy of our own idiots.

[Johonny]

14. They will blame the climate scientist

claiming if only they hadn't politicized the issue. When push comes to shove and the full effects can't be ignored they won't accept an ounce of blame for doing nothing they will instead shoot the messenger. They've been doing now for 30 years on this issue.

[dreamnightwind]

29. We've seen this attitude plenty right here on DU

and even our own POTUS's efforts seem focused largely on mitigating the impacts rather than preventing the actual catastrophe.

Incredibly sad, humanity giving up without a fight, it's just too inconvenient, can't be bothered, not politically expedient, etc.

I say we fight it with all we have, if nothing else it will buy more time, and you never know, things that appear impossible sometimes become possible when enough people work hard enough.

[WinkyDink]

36. .....the collapse of these major glaciers now "appears unstoppable," according to NASA....

[dreamnightwind]

48. Your point is?

These glaciers are a big loss, for sure, but I don't think they're the whole game, there are plenty of eventualities we could hope to avoid or greatly postpone if we fight climate change.

If I'm wrong about that (and I don't think I am), it would be better to go down doing everything in our power to correct things, rather than doing nothing but feeble attempts at impact mitigation.

I'm no expert o this, have read a lot of articles about it as has most everyone else. It's my understanding one of the things we need to work to prevent is frozen methane release, from tundra melt and from the seafloor.

[truebrit71]

57. The game is up. We cannot "stop" it. We can only hope to adapt to a radically different planet...

...than the one we were born on...

Even if we were to stop burning ALL fossil fuels right now, no cars, no planes, no coal or gas-powered electrical plants there's enough carbon that hasn't yet impacted the global temperature that we're STILL screwed anyway. Couple that with the fact that Big Oil has on its books now, in easily recoverable oil, FIVE TIMES more carbon than scientists agree would cause a minimum of a two degree increase in global temperature. Of that two degrees we have already increased 0.8 of it, so we have to find a way to persuade Big Oil to keep 80% of their known assets IN THE GROUND.

Never mind stopping the methane releases from tundra melt, or the seafloor....none of that will matter unless we can get Big Oil to only pump 20 of their known deposits.

I have absolutely zero confidence that will happen.

We are screwed. Right now. Start looking at adapting to a radically different world because this one is toast.

[stillwaiting]

37. They will almost always do and say anything to obstruct what liberals/leftists want.

It is their raison d'être.

Too many of them really, really, REALLY do hate us. They have no understanding that they have been purposefully manipulated, created through propaganda, to be this way to protect the wealth and power of a very tiny number of individuals. They are the portion of the population that Jay Gould said could be easily hired to kill the other half of the working population. They have very little autonomy, and they are perfectly controllable due to their authoritarianism.

And, they will gladly let the planet go to hell if they can observe liberals/leftists getting upset over it. Also, the Rapture occurs when the planet is falling apart, and I think it's extremely likely that many of these people relish the prospect of the planet going straight to hell. This means Jesus will be here shortly no doubt.

[Louisiana1976]

52. Well said.

[raouldukelives]

15. Is it worth fighting for?

All of it. Every struggle ever faced by mankind. Each small and hard fought step of enlightenment. Each inroad into the rights of humanity and each threshold crossed by our brightest minds?
The words of our favorite writers, the art of the great masters, the music of the most gifted, the blood and sacrifice of those who came before us?
The Aspen and the Blue Jay? The Salmon and the Redwood? All the various forms of flora and fauna that give us a glimpse at the true meaning of beauty?
All of it is going down the tubes at a record pace.
Is it worth us ending weekend trips to the mall? The world of celebrity and athletic events? Gobbling up resources and spewing pollution for no other reason than dulling of the senses for a few hours or a few extra dollars to spend on your death bed?
Can we, the people of today, join together and actually achieve something meaningful? Perhaps the only meaningful act of our short existence?
Nope.
Dows up!

[TimeToEvolve]

16. it's the 6th mass extinction, here we go!

i suppose it will be interesting to see how it goes.

[LuckyLib]

50. This is hilarious -- Carlin is a never-ending source of wisdom and humor. Always ahead of his

time, right on target! Thanks for posting this!

[Louisiana1976]

53. Thanks for posting the great video.

I love George Carlin.

[MyUncle]

18. Don't panic.....yet.

Below is text from the original article.

"It is, again, important to emphasize that just because these glaciers may have passed the "point of no return" does not mean that dramatic sea level rise happens tomorrow. There is a limit to how fast glaciers and ice sheets can move, and the Science paper emphasizes that the entire process may take several hundred years and possibly as much as a millennium."

[morningfog]

19. It has been a very long time since climate change was reversible.0

We chose long ago to ignore it. It is far too late now.

[G_j]

20. good bye NOLA etc., etc.... nt

[WinkyDink]

38. "NOLA"?! How about the entire states of Florida, NJ, RI, Hawaii. not to mention island nations?!

[hobbit709]

21. The people of Rapa Nui kept cutting down trees

My theory is that the human race seems to have survived so far despite itself.

[riqster]

30. Quote of the day:

"My theory is that the human race seems to have survived so far despite itself."

I'd say that theory has one whole helluva lot of evidence supporting it.

[Uncle Joe]

22. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Lady Freedom Returns.

[maced666]

27. Antarctic sea ice at record extent

Antarctic sea ice extent for April 2014 reached 9.00 million square kilometers (3.47 million square miles), the largest ice extent on record by a significant margin.

Following near-record levels in March, a slightly higher-than-average rate of increase led to a record April ice extent, compared to the satellite record since 1978.
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews

[blackspade]

42. And that has what to do with the undercutting of the....

Western ice sheet?

[brett_jv]

62. A Mile Wide ... and an Inch Deep ...

The 'extent' of the 'surface area' of the ice sheet is friggin' irrelevant.

What matters is 'how MUCH' ice is there. The ice sheets have three dimensions, not two. The third one, DEPTH, is pretty friggin' important in the equation. And the 'extent' doesn't CALCULATE THAT.

Derp.

[blkmusclmachine]

28. There goes the planet. Not that the 1% care. They've got drones and a puppet government in DC to

protect them from the 99%.

[riqster]

31. Ahhhh, they'll be raptured away long before that happens.

I have acquaintances who actually say that. Scary shit.

[WinkyDink]

33. They seriously are banking on colonizing either Mars or the Moon.

[gtar100]

41. So many options!

1. Manipulate media and government for self preservation.
2. Rapture out before the shit hits the fan.
3. Colonize the moon or Mars.

Sadly, none of their "brilliant" ideas include actually fixing problems here on Earth.

[WinkyDink]

43. Except, as crazy as the last sounds, Stephen Hawking concurs.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13748-stephen-hawking-calls-for-moon-and-mars-colonies.html#.U3N6J2co-70

Stephen Hawking called for a massive investment in establishing colonies on the Moon and Mars in a lecture in honour of NASA's 50th anniversary. He argued that the world should devote about 10 times as much as NASA's current budget - or 0.25% of the world's financial resources - to space.

The renowned University of Cambridge physicist has previously spoken in favour of colonising space as an insurance policy against the possibility of humanity being wiped out by catastrophes like nuclear war and climate change.

[brett_jv]

63. Wow, for such a brilliant man, he sure has some silly ideas ...

ALL sustenance for the people living on these colonies would have to come from EARTH.

Both scenarios he describes, where Earth was entirely depopulated due to nuclear war or climate change, would unquestionably involve the deaths of the people on the colonies as well, because they either a) could get no supplies anymore from earth, or b) they would die if they came BACK to earth.

Maybe, MAYBE this plan could work if the world population was wiped out due to a virus that killed everyone in a matter of weeks, and then was itself killed off due to a lack of living hosts ... in that case, we could potentially repopulate the earth from the people on the colonies, but with as many problems as we currently KNOW we face, it seems like a ridiculous expense for that extremely unlikely scenario ... it'd be much smarter/cheaper to plan for keeping a population alive here on Earth, with underground facilities built for that purpose.

[WinkyDink]

64. And I agree with YOU! I guess he forsees an Epcot Center in space (no soil needed to grow vegetables

is the exhibit I remember)!

[WinkyDink]

32. Glad I have no offspring. Nobody needs shades now.

The future ain't bright.

[blackspade]

39. Thanks to the Kochs an the rest of the oil and gas industry.

Assholes.

If the nation had just listened to Carter.....

[IronLionZion]

40. But it snowed this winter so...

[truebrit71]

59. Yup...it was the most brutal winter in the mid-west most folks can remember...

...so that means Al Gore is full of shit...

[lobodons]

44. No Problem. Rubio can just pray the melt away

problem solved.

[DallasNE]

46. I'm Have Trouble Grasping How Sea Levels Can Rise By The Amounts Suggested

Given that 71% of the earth's surface is covered by water. Greenland and Antarctica only represent a small percentage of earths surface and the glaciers only represent a small percentage of those land masses (especially Antarctica) so just how thick are those ice sheets that they can raise the sea level by what is being forecast? I just can't see how the mathematics works out.

[hatrack]

60. Antarctica is larger than the United States (about 5.4 million square miles) . . .

Average ice depth is 1.2 miles, and in some areas is substantially deeper. Only about 2% of the continent is ice-free (mostly the Antarctic Peninsula and associated islands).

So, collectively, we're talking about millions of cubic miles of ice. Not all of it will melt, and even WAIS will take decades, possibly centuries to melt down. Even rapidly retreating glaciers only move so fast.

That said, a volume of ice that large will inevitably push sea levels higher, and thermal expansion of water as the oceans warm will only increase the height of the rise.

[davidthegnome]

47. All things are possible, in the fullness of time.

Consider how it wasn't really all that long ago that human flight was believed to be an impossibility. The earth was flat. Rome ruled the world.

How on earth did such a simple, idiotic species as we humans manage to build the pyramids? How did we manage to colonize most of the known world? How the heck did we ever get men on to the moon? So many things that were believed to be impossible we proven not only possible, but became reality. The will to live - and human curiosity and energy... they are powerful, very powerful things. While there is this immense greed and ignorance that threatens our earth... this selfish bigotry and cruelty, this lack of compassion and understanding... that is not all that we are.

We are also very capable of nobility of spirit, of great kindness, generosity, forgiveness. We can accomplish amazing things, climb the highest mountains, sail across the deepest oceans, create works of art and beauty that bring tears even to the eyes of the powerful narcissists that rule us.

I would say... don't give up on the fight before it's over. Before it's really begun. The closer we come to dooms day, the further we accelerate our destruction, the more the urgency will grow in the hearts and minds of the populace, and when enough people are hurting... I believe we will come together to solve problems. Climate change is not necessarily an end to all that we have accomplished. It could instead be a new beginning that teaches us to take better care of our world, to work together for it's benefit. We may in time create technology that can resolve even this kind of immense potential disaster.

If we all do all that we can to combat this destruction, we can make a headway. We can inspire others by leading through our examples. We can demonstrate, in our own lives, that we give a damn about our planet.

All the doom and gloom is terribly dramatic and a bit frightening, but it is by no means set in stone. Don't be afraid - be encouraged to do something about it. Being human can be a rotten thing, but it can also be pretty damn awesome.

[dreamnightwind]

49. +1

Thank you for this post.

[LuckyLib]

51. Thanks for a beautiful post. Many folks are trying in every simple way to have an impact

on the future of the planet. Recycling, composting, considering their lives with purpose, making our voices heard. It feels overwhelming, but we can make change.

[Louisiana1976]

54. Excellent thread. K&R

[Quantess]

56. K & R

[Matariki]

58. And this. Which is happening now.

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/05/14/raw-fire-tornado/

[toby jo]

61. DC sets at 400 ft above sea level.

If we can herd them into their underground bunkers, let the water pour in, we could be good…