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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's getting weird here....white privilege....rape threads a month ago....it seems a bit much
I wonder where this crap is emanating from
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okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)another. Not everyone on this thread is here for the good of the Democratic party or the ideals of the left of center. We have to resist falling for it. As long as we are fighting among ourselves the right wins. We are focusing energy on distraction threads and that is time spent away from threads about the Democratic party or current events. My prediction for the next round of insanity will be gender wars. It's their turn in the cycle. Don't fall for it and post.
FuzzyRabbit
(1,967 posts)The Kochs and other extremist wingnuts are behind it. They are trying to sabotage DU and other like-minded forums.
Mr_Harshaw
(19 posts)As some on the right are on guns and abortion.
That is the lens through which they see the world.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)and many/most others. Keeps the grammar simpler...
Or, did you mean to say "race and sex"?
(Sorry, just being pedantic). 
Btw. I think I know what sex is, in nature. But I have little handle on what people mean by the term 'race', unless as employed by Nazi supremacist lunatics. Since US culture appears to be inundated by this, can anyone tell me in what sense the term is employed, usually, over there?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
Number23
(24,544 posts)Here's my theory. As is proven over and over again by the topics/posters that get so much traction here, DU is very heavily white and male and has a tendency to shout down many attempt by black posters and women to discuss issues that matter to us.
Many posters of color have left because of having our concerns constantly minimized (unless it involves marijuana laws then suddenly, "HALLELUJAH!! We must uplift our downtrodden black brothers who are getting shafted by The Man!!1"
leaving this place more insulated and narrow and less interesting and relevant, especially to the Dem party. Did you consider that to be "sowing division" too?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)It's not only the straight white guys who deserve a seat at the table. And I don't mean the kids' table either.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Not only do they consider them meaningless and unimportant, in which case it is easy to ignore the discussions - but they don't want anyone else discussing them either, and they actively get involved to derail the discussions.
And its so often the same posters who can't stand for anyone to discuss either issue.
Seems pretty revealing to me.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)That said, it parallels local democratic parties. We only talk poverty issues, race, women, near election time.
Yes, gotten real cynical
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)freakshow brigade posting the latest Angst of the month, and believing they own the right to judge anyone on it.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)
Response to Number23 (Reply #14)
Sheldon Cooper This message was self-deleted by its author.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)The mere fact that most threads that are pro-Democrat or pro-Democratic Party are rarely visited while those opposing Democrats and the Democratic Party are inundated with rec's and posts, tells me all I need to know and it underscores the truth in your post.
applegrove
(118,656 posts)to provoke warfare within the DU.
penultimate
(1,110 posts)I made the mistake of posting in one earlier today. There's just too much history between various people, that it's like walking into the middle of a bar fight. You might just be trying to get over to get drink and have a nice conversation with someone, but the belligerents assume you're trying to bash their heads with a pool stick. So I'm going to just go outside to hang out in the kiddie section to play on the monkey bars and swings.
*That makes me sound kinda creepy, huh?
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)I don't think the belligerents on all sides realize that their behavior in such threads affects how they're perceived throughout DU... and generally not in a positive way.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)No-one looks like they're having any fun and any constructive posts are few and far between. It's all about accusations, counter-accusations, and personality conflicts. I hate cute kitties and fucking lame youtube clips of dogs doing cute things, but right now I'd far prefer to see those than these repetitious slugfests....
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)glad that all YOUR issues are all worked out......congratulations....that is not true for all of us.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Shocking, isn't it?
Demonaut
(8,916 posts)whatever
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)questioned. On the one hand, I don't entirely blame them. On the other hand, I want them to understand that the "1%" (many of whom admittedly are greedy, lazy bastards born into extreme wealth) isn't the only problem facing American society. Nor is social class the only factor shaping people's life circumstances.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)but heck at least they attack those that are on the list of those who can be attacked and not on the list of people who are not allowed to be attacked.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I don't think that discussions regarding equality and civil rights is "pitting one group against another". However, I can certainly understand the base temptation to conflate the two in order to better minimize and trivialize the contrary opinions others may hold without actually addressing them.
Additionally, I absolutely understand your dependence on a self-constructed cross from which to hang yourself in the melodramatic martyrdom of the Oppressed & Beleaguered White Male (not even a White Male History Month!!! The horror!). Yet it seems to me that the individuals so righteously ranting against particular topics appearing on DU would be more than clever enough to use the auto-trash function... unless of course, they are merely attempting that very divisiveness they indict others for.
Demonaut
(8,916 posts)Damansarajaya
(625 posts)why do so many folks who want to shame the white man assume that we who don't want to must be white?
Because there's a party-line they think everyone must toe.
Look, civil rights, gay rights, women's rights are important and worthy of discussion. There's no debate that these groups experience discrimination.
But let's not make it the be-all and end-all. Let's not make it into a "you must think like me totally or you're part of the problem." That's party-line-ism, and the kind of thing that leads to ideological purges of those whose thoughts are not "pure enough."
Can a wealthy man like George Soros have opinions on what it's like to be living paycheck to paycheck? Damn right, and I welcome his help and support.
We don't keep our eyes on the prize by bickering with and demeaning one another.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Democrats have always bickered with each other.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Never seen you around, you should stop by AA.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)You do nothing but go on the attack. You offered nothing constructive and productive. All you did was point out what we mostly all agree on. Hope you feel better.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
Funny, every time i see you on a race thread, you attack me and other AA posters and women. But, now you suggest that you are just an innocent player in it all. Every time. I see your name. In a race thread. You are angry. And condescending. Towards myself and other AA posters. Every time.
penultimate
(1,110 posts)I noticed there is a lot of assumption making being done these days. Everyone always assuming what the other person really thinks or feels. Things would be much nicer if people just stopped being so dismissive of everyone. I get that I might be missing a lot of the past history, but sometimes it's best to just let the past go and move forward in an attempt to understand where everyone is is coming from.
Most of the real posters here probably have many of the same general beliefs with many subjects. So it doesn't seem like it's that far fetched that the people butting heads can figure out where they differ.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Discussing white privilege makes some white people uncomfortable, apparently. And discussing misogyny makes some men uncomfortable, apparently. So they'd rather it just go away because it's "disruptive".
penultimate
(1,110 posts)Often times the entire thread ends up not even discussing the original content in the post. Being as how I'm not involved in much of it, I don't know all the players and who did what to whom three months ago, or whatever. However, it does seem like the derailing of those threads come in from all sides, and not just one party is the cause. Because of that, those threads seems pretty much useless. I've seen people who may disagree or nor fully understand the premise of the OP, be outright dismissed or attacked for it. That's not helpful at all. And again, this is coming from both sides. The often used purposefully inflammatory language, the personal attacks, dismissive attitude and whatnot makes it all very icky to me.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)at times. Like racism and anti-racism are equivalent, or misogyny and feminism. They're not.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)understanding this.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)any one in a series of smug, pedantic, self-styled, desperately trendy attention seekers ... not so much.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Much as the daily denials of privilege from the "smug, pedantic, self-styled, desperately trendy attention seekers" can be tiresome also.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other... 
redqueen
(115,103 posts)IMO it is very revealing which side one chooses to aim one's ire at.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)a person with whom to even attempt to engage in discussion. It's real. It exists. And I was aware of that particular fact for decades before DU ever came into existence.
But you have may have noticed that the "daily denials" are generally found in response to lecture threads, and even so, form a very small percentage of the responses in such threads.
Preaching to the choir can get tedious, particularly when it's being done by the same people, saying the same thing, to a group which damned near universally agrees with them anyway ... over and over again.
Convince someone at freeperville ... or on a Yahoo message board ... or at the site which shall not be named. Then you will have accomplished something. But haranguing a small number of posters at a left of center forum about being insufficiently pure seems to be pretentious, and a poor allocation of energy.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Not accusing you of anything, just making an observation.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)Because being accused of semantic indiscretions by people with whom I'm pretty much in agreement tends to chap my ass.
Not feeling accused, just trying to be really fucking precise.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)But if you believe you've identified "the point", perhaps you might deign to address it. I'm talking about my point. The one I was making with my foray into this thread. Not the point that some employ in an attempt to steer every discussion toward a back-and-forth shit fest.
And if this is the spot where I'm supposed to say it's "nice and all" that you haven't aimed any "bigoted insults" in my direction; if it's all the same to you, I'll pass. I've never been a big believer in participation trophies.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Demanding someone respond to you the way you would like them about YOUR point to is mightily reminiscent of what you accuse them of.
I can't remember what they call that... but any hoot.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)Interestingly enough, in my world a request that someone "perhaps might deign to address" a point doesn't exactly qualify as a "demand"; but that would kind of fuck up your little narrative, wouldn't it?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)You see something and think it's a demand, when in fact it's a discussion.
Sorry, you can't have it both ways, either we are both discussing something, or both of us are demanding something.
You think that just because you think some is demanding something of you that they actually are? In actually it is nothing but a derailment tactic.
I feel hopeful now that you can see now that the tables get turned. What you are doing and claiming is not conducive to discussion. If what you want is discussion, then please stop with the false narratives of what it is you think someone is doing to you. You don't win an argument that way. So from here on out, when we disagree, we can each think the other is demanding the other think the way we do, or we can think we are having a discussion. It's up to you. I'm not falling into any more derailment and disingenuous discussion with persons in this manner any longer.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)and thinking it's a demand"? Unhappily for you, your words are still available for anyone to see (unless you can edit really quickly. It was you who took something from my post and (falsely) labeled it a "demand". Hmmm, interesting tactic. Accusing others of the exact thing that you yourself have done. Where have I seen that before? Oh well, I'm sure it will come to me.
In any case, I will leave you with the last word. Participating in a discussion with those who engage in demonstrable bullshit gets tedious; and while deny, deflect, and just plain make shit up can be effective, I choose not to play. Have at it.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Nothing positive to add, just another "clueless" white man post basically. I'll ask you...tell me what I as a white male the things I can do to ease your burden as a woman or minority? Offer positive solutions and these threads might become a good thing.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Everytime.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)just a suggestion because you asked. 
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Seriously, it truly gets disheartening. The out and out reactionaries, the ones who are all "who me?", the ones who dig their heels in and can't for a minute imagine they might have something to learn...
It makes me so sad, and so infuriated.
Response to scarletwoman (Reply #10)
Post removed
CANDO
(2,068 posts)But of course they're not. Go look at all the positive teaching posts and.....oops, there aren't any! Just traps set to ensnare "clueless white men". So to help me learn something, point out the "teaching moment" in your post.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)But some people aren't interested in learning.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Figures
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Figures.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Put up or SU. Posts with positive suggestions or solutions on the topic are non existent.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)You've pretty much demonstrated that you have no interest in learning from any "teaching tools".
In the thread that started with one of the best OPs I've ever seen on the subject: Privilege = shit you don't have to put up with you made one post that totally missed the point, and one other that got hidden.
Your request for "teaching tools" is clearly not made in good faith, since you have so far demonstrated that you have no intention of letting go of your preconceived notions.
For "teaching tools" to work, there needs to be a receptive learner. If you are unwilling to open your mind to the possibility that your cherished opinions might not be the finality of all that can be known and understood, then there is no place for any teaching to enter.
Response to scarletwoman (Reply #275)
Post removed
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)already in front of you if you care to see them.
You were the one, after all, who requested "teaching tools", (http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4953548) I simply pointed out how they can be found.
alp227
(32,025 posts)A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Wed May 14, 2014, 11:26 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I'm not voting to hide because of the back-and-forth sniping (though I am getting the impression that CANDO is "trollier" than his opponents), I am voting to hide because CANDO used the "pest" insult, specifically AT scarletwoman. Don't call people pests. It's rude, hurtful, uncivil, unhelpful and it makes DU suck.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Calling a previous poster a "pest" takes it over the line.
This is the second jury on this thread I've been on today, FWIW
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Cando continues to miss the point. And pointless name calling shows the weakness of his/her response.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts) Number23
(24,544 posts)the effects of white privilege, the fact that this person is still allowed to post here at all is a blight on this entire web site.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)If he survives the flag, at least he'll be in time out for 88 days.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)alp227
(32,025 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)She also mentions that if this is how the core of Democratic voters gets treated around here, then maybe this place isn't for her. I couldn't argue with that at all.
Edit: Link to the direct post which ends with the charming advice to onpatrol to "Get a fucking job and obey the law and pay taxes and shut the hell up about anyone else being "privileged". It's a simple formula really." http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4582205
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)To be honest, as you can see from my reply to his now hidden post, I chose to intepret (naively, I suppose) his "Go away. Pest." as his characterization of what I was saying to him. I also (attempting to be charitable) took his use of the word "pests" in his following sentence, "There has not been anyone of these pests attempting a teaching moment..." as a possible typo, giving him the benefit of the doubt by reading it as "posts".
I guess I was just unwilling to believe that someone would so blatantly fling such insults and risk getting their post hidden. Oh well.
Thanks again. 
alp227
(32,025 posts)Originally flagged for review, but admins ultimately decided against a full PPR. Because user has 6 posts in Transparency dating back to May 12, the earliest this user CANDO another post will be around Aug. 13!
redqueen
(115,103 posts)
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)They can't keep up this pace that long...hopefully.
Or, I guess if they do, most of Du will move on to discussionist. 
But in the meantime, you can always trash threads individually. Or, adding key words "rape" and "privilege" to your auto-trash list will zap most of 'em.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)...and was trying to quit. He told me that if I ever heard him asking someone to get more meth for him, "Just knock me over the head and chain me to a tree at my father's farm."
That's how I feel about participating in those threads. I've just trashed a dozen of them from the front page of GD, including one of my own.
It's just one big circular firing squad. Fuck that.
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)
kwassa
(23,340 posts)This is not an argument.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Look, if I'm going to argue with you, I'm going to have to take up a contrary position.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Oh this is...
This is ridiculous!
Damansarajaya
(625 posts)"No, you haven't."
CLASSIC Monty Python SKETCH! Love that one . . .
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)they had an argument clinic like this in RL...
Response to kwassa (Reply #112)
Inkfreak This message was self-deleted by its author.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Last edited Wed May 14, 2014, 08:28 AM - Edit history (1)
That's obviously where it's coming from. Is there a problem with issues those people face being discussed here? It wouldn't be a problem with most progressive people.
SaltyBro
(198 posts)Their privilege is blinding.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Those evil white people....
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And black on black crime, black on white crime, getting pulled over, no ticket, just why am i in this neighborhood it's too nice, crack babies, welfare queens, all my LIFE, i think i survived. You shall survive this too i think. Imagine if you were me hearing how terrible black people were all your life? Getting called names in school while the teacher blames you for riling them up? Beat up and called slave? Spook? Shadow? Having white dudes come up to you and say that 'we need to get rid of the hispanics, but you blacks can stay and work. For us?
My fee fees get hurt on a daily basis. Just try being a 8 year old black girl in history class talking about how our forefather came to America and landed on plymouth rock, knowing that this history is not about you. You are left out. Because your ancestors were stolen, starved and beaten to get here.
By white people.
So, saying white people hurts your feelings? Too bad.
SaltyBro
(198 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)And their feelings are like, the most important thing.
They can say black people all day, but if you say 'white people' they get all types of upset. It's like somebody died!
If they had to hear one tenth of the negative crap i heard and saw against me and mine, they would lose their shit.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Make sense please. No entiendo.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Right cross! BODY BLOW!
Now perhaps "THEY" will understand!!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Me too. Welcome to my world!
Once again:
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Those clueless white males must be endlessly "called out" for their collective guilt!!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Do i cry when somebody says black people?? No.
You get all types of upset.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)"THEY" must have it hammered into them!!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It shows in how they think that hearing about racism is worse than experiencing it. They. The ones who don't get that it's ironic for them to whine about hearing about the oppression others suffer.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)That will teach 'They!"
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Right? Or do they know everything about everything and need no help understanding other people, from those people themselves.
You sound so angry.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
SaltyBro
(198 posts)You must understand that before we can move on with this conversation.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And since we are in America the racism goes from white to blacks. Blacks have no system of power over whites in this country, have never oppressed whites, and to this day are suffering under a racist system implemented by our white founding fathers. Fix it and i'll shut up gladly.
Until they system is fixed and no longer rigged against us. I will complain and make the majority uncomfortable with this unfair system. It matters to me so that my children do not have to suffer the physical, mental and emotional abuse inflicted upon me and mine by this system of racial inequality.
Deal with hearing about it like i have to deal with experiencing it. Unless you think your feeling are more important than the abuse suffered by minorities? I don't think you think that so, i guess you will deal.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)race and sex!
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)
ecstatic
(32,704 posts)Squinch
(50,949 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts).....in general. And that's understandable, TBH, I certainly can't deny that.
However, though, I have indeed noticed (and I'm not alone) that there are a small number of people on here who do seem to be shit-stirring from time to time, for whatever reason; and many amongst this same particular clique do not seem to take criticism of their statements or differing viewpoints too well at all, too many times(some of it has gone as far as shouting down the opponent and effectively trying to shut them up). And while I don't think that even many of *them* are outright trolls, there are indeed a few out there that you can't help but wonder if they may have a hidden agenda(vendettas, etc.?) of some sort.....
So I'd be careful, that's all.
And BTW, I should add that there is honestly nothing wrong with discussing women's issues, or that of People of Color; on the contrary, it can often be quite enlightening; at the very least, we always can learn, or relearn something. The only problem most people really have is stuff like these some of the more extreme "white privilege" OP threads, etc. 
boston bean
(36,221 posts)I think you got this all backasswards.
TBH of course.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I think you are right, TBH.
sheshe2
(83,765 posts)Post 24
However, though, I have indeed noticed (and I'm not alone) that there are a small number of people on here who do seem to be shit-stirring from time to time, for whatever reason; and many amongst this same particular clique do not seem to take criticism of their statements or differing viewpoints too well at all, too many times(some of it has gone as far as shouting down the opponent and effectively trying to shut them up). And while I don't think that even many of *them* are outright trolls, there are indeed a few out there that you can't help but wonder if they may have a hidden agenda(vendettas, etc.?) of some sort.....
He refers to you and other AA posters and or defenders? Am I completely off base here?
Me and others like some in HOF who do not see things his way.
At least he didn't tell me to go watch Real Housewives of Atlanta, so thats nice.
sheshe2
(83,765 posts)Of all the asinine statements. Those statements both take the cake. I just finished reading your AA Op and saw the rest.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It's all good. This issue and womens issues bring out the worst in many people and bring out the dragon in me.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)However, though, I'd like to point out that the good majority of the people I've noticed doing this seem to be white folks. So there was no real ethnic animosity here.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Yeah, you betcha.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Is trendy lol
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)And who truly believe that starting thread after thread on "white privilege" and "rape culture" is the optimal approach, guaranteed to build alliances and unite everyone in pursuit of those worthy goals.
It's not at all trolling flamebaiters looking to stir up controversy, piss people off, and sow divisions. No sir.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)You've posted the most truthful statement in this entire thread.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)On ignore. It makes for a much more enjoyable time on DU. And it is not because I disagree with them, it is because they don't know when enough is enough.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)A good chunk of the posters are Trolls disguising themselves as having genuine concern.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Asian priviledge? It is like that on DU for women and POC almost every day lately.
It's like we are expected to laugh along with RW bigots making fun of us w/ slurs.
All I can say is WTF to some people, why are they deliberately alienating the most reliable Dem voters here, and dumbing this place down to resemble freeperville?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)really.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)It is a shame so many want to remake DU into a place where anything goes, but this has been the direction for a while now.
The TOS and SOP are pretty meaningless, and arguments to defend considering them , gets you labled a disrupter.
It's backassward for sure.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)
ananda
(28,860 posts)..
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)and people of color on DU. If these issues are of no interest to you, please trash the threads. Topics like rape and racism are very important topic to many here and aren't considered "crap".
Response to Demonaut (Original post)
Jesus Malverde This message was self-deleted by its author.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)Unless you are a loved one of our recently departed friend, I don't think it's in good taste to presume to use her life, experiences and passing in this way - to dismiss the feelings and experiences of others - in her name. Please consider deleting.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)however, to say it matters most or that we can't discuss things that are just as important is reminiscent of when the gay community was told we were causing the Democratic party to lose elections because our issues were too divisive.
As rational, thinking, multi-tasking capable adults, we can discuss things like white privilege, rape culture, LGBTQ rights and the economy and whatever other issues that floats anyone's fancy.
Finally, I don't know how I feel about you using a DU'er who is no longer with us as your talking point. We don't really know why onestepforward committed suicide and to say it was solely because of the economy is disingenuous. As someone who has attempted suicide in the past there's always an underlying depression that causes suicidal ideology and attempts. So, maybe what matters more than the economy is a discussion about mental health care and how lacking it is in this country.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)The increasing divide between the rich and the poor is certainly the paramount issue for me, my family, and millions of other Americans. I invite Democrats who want to make a real difference to focus on those issues.
That said, and as I have said repeatedly, more speech is better than less speech, so it doesn't bother me to see threads on DU about various issues that matter to DU's denizens.
-Laelth
frazzled
(18,402 posts)We're talking about the economy getting bad for white middle-class males. The economic "carnage" (a phrase that is surely the equivalent of "rape culture" ) was always there for African Americans and women—across the decades and centuries. It's only a big issue now because white males are also feeling the effects. And this is not an opinion, but a statement based on incontrovertible facts about wage and income inequality for women and blacks.
So there we are, back again to a discussion of white male privilege. You cannot separate issues out so neatly as you would like. Race, class, and gender are very much a part of discussion about the economy.
Response to frazzled (Reply #45)
Jesus Malverde This message was self-deleted by its author.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)fail to acknowledge that even within the middle-class, women and African Americans never achieved parity with white males.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)And do you know which sector of the economy gets hit the worst by racism and rape? Not middle class white males.
Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #47)
Jesus Malverde This message was self-deleted by its author.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)This newfound love for "class" on DU shows only concern for the plight of white males in the rush to shout down the threads about anything else but white males.
Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #54)
Jesus Malverde This message was self-deleted by its author.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)More dodge ball today, I see!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And issues of economic life are also issues of class...is my history degree showing?
What you are doing is the kind of blindness classic of the US. We are not, never have been, a classless society. That my friend is the undercurrent of only speaking of middle class, which incidentally does not span 20K to 250K in income.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)"Whaaaaaat? No, this is my America, all people are equal here, there's no class!"
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I think it's a riot, situational Marxism. One person says the r-word or the s-word and suddenly 800 class warriors rise up to let us know that the ruling class sucks. Um yeah, they do, so quit helping them.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Eom
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts) Someone is voting for republicans and guess who it is? bravenak
(34,648 posts)White dudes vote conservative.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I'll know that there is a demonstrated seriousness about fixing class issues among white males when the voting demographics shift.
Until then, I guess many of them feel like they are millionaires-in-waiting, and eff the rest of us.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
Response to bravenak (Reply #247)
Jesus Malverde This message was self-deleted by its author.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I have no idea what you mean.
Why the fuck would i want to watch 'Real Housewives of Atlanta'?
You know what dude. Give me a few minutes..
First of all, i MET Dr.Dre at a party in Long Beach, my aunt was friends with his cousin in Long Beach, so what the fuck does that even mean?
Second of all, don't you ever try to throw a rich black person in my face to try to prove a stupid ass point again.
Third of all, where the hell did i say that not everybody can make it?? I said that black people face more OBSTACLES as do women to succeed and it's not fair. You think it's cool that we face institutional racism? Good for you!!!!!!!
Fourth of all..... You have no idea who i am or anything about me that i don't volunteer.
Fifth of all. Why the hell do you think it's cute to tell a black woman to ' Go watch Real Housewives Of Atlanta', what the hell would make you say that to me in particular? Do you think all Black women watch real housewives of Atlanta??
Do you even know how what you said sounds? OMG!!!
I am copying this post of your to my crazy shit people say to black people folder!!! Thanks a lot for that one.
First it's the one dude who thinks black people are poor because they have too many babies and the men 'leave' their families, now you want to tell me to go watch real housewives of atlanta???
You know, some dude told me the other day to go watch Roots, after he invited me to stay in America to work for him after he got rid of the hispanics and now this.
Are you proud of yourself now?? You feel smart and cute???
"I am copying this post of your to my crazy shit people say to black people folder!!!"
Is that a thread?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I posted it in AA so that we could think about crazy things you can say to black people.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I imagine it will fill up fast.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and posted to it with "holy crap!"
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Any crazy thing at all, race related or not. It could be fun. Better than this.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Looks like someone got a case of the shys.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Forever. That way i can remember who i'm speaking with if we ever interact in the future.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)CANDO
(2,068 posts)Take away the many millions of white men who vote Democratic and you're a permanent minority party. Kind of why I don't understand the vitriol against white men that abounds in this supposedly progressive DU. Now put away the broad brush of all white men are republican.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)No one said *all*. And pointing out demographics is vitriol now? Sad to see a fear of facts on supposedly progressive DU.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Straw man if I ever saw one right there. You deny that many millions of white men are Democrats? And vote Democratic? Do the math...even with the larger part of that demo being R, you still have tens of millions of white men forming a very sizeable block of the Democratic vote. And we face these asinine, counternproductive, going nowhere, accomplishing nothing white privilege threads. Lately, "white privilege" is to DU what "Benghazi" is to R's.......and I'm left wondering what the fucking point it is anyone is trying to make. White Privilege!......yeah? Is there something you wanted to add? .....No, but why are you so clueless? Yeah? So what privileges would you like me to have taken away? None.....so stop denying white privilege! So in the end, what's the fucking point? There is none other than we get to make you out as clueless and racist. And so these threads go, over and over.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)racist dolts out and from influencing the party.
That of course is not directed at you, but in general.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts) Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Rights are NOT in limited numbers. Everyone can have them, without you losing your rights. What makes you think that letting other people have rights will take your rights away?
CANDO
(2,068 posts)my rights will be taken for others to attain. It was in the context of asking what they wished from me(white men) in general, because they have still not fleshed out what the heck the point of their privilege threads are. As I see it, what's the point of posting them if they are not offering positive or constructive suggestions. Which they've almost completely not done.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)CANDO
(2,068 posts)some sort of idea "what it is they wish us white dudes to do" about "white privilege". I often express myself in ways that may not be easy for others to follow, and I apologize for that.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)They only asked you to listen and learn.
If white privilege threads bother you so much, there is a section under My Account where you can block that type of conversation from your DU life entirely. I'm Bieber free and Carrottop free because of it.
Go to My Account
Trash Can
enter the words you don't want to see any more
Finis
It's that simple. Or you can hide threads as they pop up. That's more frustrating though.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Though I'd like to clarify that it's not ALL of this site, of course(not even close!)......just a small cliche of particularly vocal individuals, that's all......and to be fair, it doesn't even include all those who believe in white privilege as a whole(even the literalist version); it is mainly those on the fringe of the fringe, as it were.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)have a comfortable majority.
Further, it is really unlikely that reasonable white men who vote Democratic will stop voting Democratic because someone wants to talk about white privilege, which most people accept as a fact.
Some white men may take their ball and go home because they must have everything be all about them, but they are not a significant number, nor are they a significant force.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Its as if they seriously think that anyone buys the BS excuse they use to try to shut down discussions they don't personally like.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)their hatred for HoF. I am sure there are those who won't vote because someone said "white privilege" and they are a white man who got fired from their job. The two I am aware of do seem to be white men.
But, really, how likely were these people to be able to find their way out of a voting booth anyway? It just wouldn't be safe for them to go into the booth all alone and without supervision, and we just don't have the personnel to keep them safe in there.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)people of color, particularly those in the lower ends of the economy. The "middle class" appears to be willing to ignore this too and at its own peril. The 99% needs to hang together. That includes the "middle class" which will surely go the way of the dinosaurs unless it starts realizing that it too is not a whit different in the eyes of the 1% they aspire to emulate than those beneath them to whom they look askance or try to ignore.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)but are in fact a distraction.
In fact, it's a primary reason coalitions fall apart.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Is starting to not just barely show, but rather it is now in bright lights look at me.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts) boston bean
(36,221 posts)that people on a progressive website wouldn't take to kindly to the denial of white privilege or rape culture.
And that they would confront that denial and speak about it.
What's weird is that people seem to think those confronting it are the problem. Now that's fucking way out there weird, wouldn't you say?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)Do you see how absolutely ignorant your question to me is?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)important to some. It seems not important to you. Why you accuse me of ignorance is puzzling. Please elaborate, if you wish.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)I do not wish to elaborate any further. If you can't determine it for yourself, I can be of no help.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)thus whole "debate." There is a declaration thay white privilege is a real thing, and conversely, a number of people who argue over its existence, meaning, relevance, etc. And there is little doubt that one side in the debate contends many on DU refuse to accept their privilege. What you are saying, then, is I must determine if I have conceded the objective existence of WP, and (apparently) you nor anyone else is the judge of that. (BTW, I asked the same question of several others, here.)
So, I guess there remains little to be said on this subject. Makes me wonder what all the fuss was about to begin with. But maybe, just maybe, in a future conversation about race, equity, (in)justice, etc., I will probably expect someone to check (or require I do so) my WP, thereby negating or deminishing my contribution as a matter of form. In lieu of a better explanation to the contrary, this is the dynamic I see.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #108)
Post removed
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)If one does not admit to it, they are ignorant. I do not see people going around demanding that others admit it. Fact is, if they aren't aware of it in society already, then they are simply ignorant. Your question here is very strange.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)will be used as a cudgel and a weapon, with a thin glaze of objectivity. That is obvious, and I'm a little surprised you don't see this.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)
rrneck
(17,671 posts)It must be done within the established liturgy. Improper affect will not be tolerated.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)be assumed -- closed subject -- and that fact will be wielded as weaponry in any discussion regarding race, social equity, social status, justice, etc. The "liturgy" will be a moveable and rather private feast.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)The same people who spend a lot of time telling others what to say and how to say it simultaneously complain about being censored.
Rex
(65,616 posts)after years and years of not posting on DU. Also, seems really strange to me is the lengths people will go to to deny that rape culture or white male privilege exists. Strange that on a progressive website, someone would pretend it is the end of DU for merely bringing up said topics.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)OK, maybe not so strange. Definitely revealing though.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)That's about all I have to contribute to this discussion.
-Laelth
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)In April, it will be rape threads
In May, it will be White Privilege
Can't wait to see what the coordinated topic, intended to pit Democrat vs Democrat, will be for June.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Seriously, can you answer that?
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)The point is that there are several issues that divide Democrats. These are called "wedge" issues.
It has become apparent that there is a coordinated effort to introduce a new "wedge" issue to DU every month by bombarding it with threads on the subject.... with the intent of getting Democrats fighting with each other and divided leading up to the midterm elections instead of finding common ground and uniting against Republicans.
Where I stand on the "white privilege" issue is irrelevant to the subject of this thread. The point is that it is an issue that is intended to drive a wedge between white Democrats and non-white Democrats.
You're being manipulated, and you don't even realize it.
They *WANT* you fighting against other Democrats, so you don't spend as much time uniting to fight Republicans.
And with you... it is apparently working.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)mea culpa.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)... for months, there are no threads or posts at all on DU about the subject of "white privilege"..... and then all of a sudden, there are DOZENS of threads on the subject, even though nothing happened in the news to bring it to the forefront?
You don't find it curious that there are literally ZERO threads on a subject for months.... then all of a sudden it is the only thing people are talking about on DU? If there were something in the news that brought out the subject, that would be different.
There is a coordinated effort to manipulate Democrats into fighting amongst themselves. It is abundantly clear.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)denying as the ones who are the problem.
That's what I find very curious. And I wish people would point their criticism where it belongs.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)It is real, and it is a problem that non-white's have to deal with daily.
That's not the point.
The point is that the sudden extreme focus on this subject is not organic. It is a coordinated effort at driving a wedge between Democrats.
And it is working.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)or those who have the audacity to diminish black persons life experiences?
See.... point your criticism where it belongs and lend your voice to right side of the argument. The side you agree with. The side most democrats agree with, and stop telling those who you agree with that they are the ones driving the wedge. That would be a big help.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)...that are meant to get us arguing amongst ourselves.
They are sophisticated trolls that are working to get us spun up about a subject so we are arguing with each other instead of working against them.
It is oppo warfare.
And it is working.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)If more spoke out against them, maybe this stuff wouldn't be so god damned aggravating.
How about you try that instead of trying to get those you agree with to be quiet in the face of it, so we aren't manipulated. Because you are leaving out one very important thing. And that is the fact that silence in the face of that means approval.
Not.going.to.do.that. Sorry.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Have the folks in HOF decided yet?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Good day.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)...and then I got an email tip about the source of these wedge issues..... and saw that it was YOU who were not having an honest discussion with ME.
Good day to YOU.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)What sad commentary.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)You're not bothered by people who don't think white privilege is real, or that male privilege is real.
You're bothered by people who talk about these issues. You think they shouldn't be discussed so much. Or that they should only be discussed when you deem something newsworthy has happened which, to you, justifies mentioning these issues.
Do you really not get that these issues impact women and people of color on a daily basis, and maybe that makes the people affected by these issues want to talk about them?
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Why didn't anybody want to talk about these issues on DU for the past few years except for a thread here or there.... and then all of a sudden in May, 2014 there are dozens and dozens of threads on the issue?
Not saying these issues don't exist and aren't valid.
It is specifically because they DO exist and ARE valid that the disruptors are using them.
There'll be a new issue in June... that out of the blue will take over discussion of DU. It will be meant to disrupt and get us fighting amongst ourselves. And it will succeed.
I don't hazard to guess at what it will be.... but we'll all know it when we see it.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Who are the disruptors?
You seem to be labeling people like me - from HoF - as the disruptors. Because we raise the issues.
I find it more than disturbing that it is popular among a handful of posters here to portray the two sides in these discussions as having equally valid points of view
I find it even more disturbing that it is the people raising the issues and challenging those who post decidedly right wing views who are being labeled as disruptors in PMs. I can't help but wonder which side of these issues the people sending those PMs stand on.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Especially an issue like "white privilege" which isn't really a HOF issue, but an issue that affects non-whites? Could it be you're searching for "allies" in your fight to change the way DU is run?
And why did "raise the issue" come in the form of bombardment of GD with dozens of threads on the subject? Carpet-bombing, as it were.
This was a planned event. It wasn't organic.
You're not being honest.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)by someone sending them an email. LOL. Show evidence of this "planning", solid evidence, or we can only assume that this conspiracy is simply the product of a fertile but sadly misguided mind. Really. Put up or shut up, as the saying goes.
Oh, and it's hugely ironic to accuse HOF of addressing issues that aren't related strictly to feminism. You should let your buddies in the Men's Rights group know that HOF has gone off the reservation and is now addressing issues that aren't strictly about women. It's one of their biggest criticisms of us, FYI.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Is it new? I've never heard of it.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Say what you will about HoF, but one thing they have always done, in their own way, is talk about women's issues. Surprise. Surprise. There are female persons of color too. Guess what? They want to be heard too. So, quit telling everyone else to STFU and calling people's lives a "wedge" issue. It's bullshit. GLBT rights were considered a "wedge" issue. Now, things are changing for the better, despite the fact that we were told to STFU. We would NOT STFU when DU told us too and now we are finally getting some rights in this country.
Personally, I'd like to see less beatings of black men for just being black near a cop and less rapes of all women AND men AND children that go unpunished because the system is set up to destroy the lives of those of us who try to press charges against rapists and in my case, at least, the people who helped the rapist rape me by holding me down to be raped. Yes, I found that beyond just unpleasant. It should have been considered a hate crime. I used to STFU, but that is what it got me. Fuck that. I'm speaking up now too.
So, you see, while I may not always agree 100% with HoF on a few key individual points(far from it), I am glad they are talking about rape culture and white privilege, because those things play a part in the injustices people face. WP and rape culture DO need to be addressed.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)Curses! You have foiled our plans.
I suppose I'll just have to let you in on our nefarious secret: the sneaky spy group who are posting about "wedge subjects" like racism and rape here on this liberal discussion board are................women and people of color.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,316 posts)Jan: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024276345 http://www.democraticunderground.com/101682950 http://www.democraticunderground.com/11874904
Feb: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024581118 http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024544941 http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024553763
March: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11875777 http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024589269 http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024594038
Plus many more, but I'm not going to list them all now. All you have to do is type "white privilege", including the quotes, into the search box and you'll see them.
You are inventing an absurd conspiracy theory. And you're blaming one DU group. Do you hate them or something?
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,316 posts)That's a really idiotic conspiracy theory you've come up with there. The moment you find out there's a History of Feminism group, you think they're trying to drive a wedge between Democrats, and think you have to tell us all? Truly paranoid fuckwittery.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Now I know who.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,316 posts)What you 'know' now is what someone has told you, because they've found someone willing to believe any old shit they make up.
Remember, you 'knew' that no-one had discussed white privilege on DU for months, when plainly they had. Your 'knowledge' on this subject is laughably tiny.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)lol
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)I have posted this in a thread last week, and based on advice of others, saved it to repost whenever this subject comes up, which sadly has become often.
As 1strongblackman explained in another thread. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4925485
What you don't want is to hear about the view on the other side of that divide.
Moreover, Democrats argue on every issue under the sun, from Snowden to Obamacare, Hillary Clinton, and everything else. Yet some members single out the voices of people of color and feminists to denounce as too "divisive."
First people argue Democrats all already on racism anyway. It's an already settled issue. Then you say you don't like to see Democrats divided. These arguments contradict each other. They do not hold up to scrutiny since there are scores of others subjects around which people agree and disagree that you don't object to.
This strikes me as a demonstration of entitlement: if it's not about white men, they don't think is important or legitimate. Every time someone tells people of color, feminists, and members of other subaltern groups that there concerns are illegitimate or too divisive to be discussed, they only deepen that divide you want to pretend doesn't exist.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)And next month, it will be a different wedge issue.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)should be welcome, cause they're good liberals??? And those who argue with that are somehow splitting up the party.
Please someone wake me up from this alternate reality.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Those posts are part of the coordinated effort as well.... at least some of them.
They are meant to get you up in arms against your fellow Democrat.... and they're working.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)I'm not going to sit back and let black persons here on DU be discriminated against just so I can keep harmony with bigoted statements. So, what we can focus on "more important issues". Hell no!
Not who I am. Don't ask me to be that person.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)It would be kinda funny, if it wasn't repeated over and over.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Snowden, Greenwald, the NSA, Obama, Hillary Clinton, Obamacare, marijuana and the war on drugs, pit bulls, the Ukraine, Syria, closing Gitmo, primaries, religion, gun control policy . . . That's just off the top of my head.
Should we avoid discussing those too?
There is no such thing as an issue that Democrats don't disagree over. Remember Will Rogers famous quote?: "I'm not the member of any organized party; I'm a Democrat."
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)... that is "white privilege".
The other issues are background noise. But when one issue goes completely over the top and is the subject of two dozen threads in a short period of time, it is a coordinated effort at wedging.
What will HOF decide next month's wedge issue will be?
MineralMan
(146,308 posts)I've been looking at threads on other topics and posting in those. I recognize my white privilege, and my male privilege, and my straight white male privilege, and try not to let it interfere with my life or anyone else's life. Threads about it aren't where my focus is right now.
The other issues, for me, are not background noise at all. They are issues that catch my attention and lead to discussion for me. DU is full of threads on many issues. It's easy to skip the ones that aren't what I'm thinking about and to focus on the threads that interest me.
I don't use the trash thread feature on DU, since I am able to click selectively with my mouse or tap threads that interest me. However, if that is difficult for anyone, the trash thread and selective tools that allow you to avoid threads containing certain keywords, along with the Ignore feature, which lets you avoid any number of DUers completely are always available.
One can also hide entire forums and groups, I understand.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)The fact is some people cannot entertain in their minds that the lives or concerns of anyone but themselves could possibly have any relevance. The idea that talking about racism divides people is a constant conservative meme. We heard it throughout the election and now we are hearing it on DU.
It's particularly ironic that member complains about "dividing" people while simultaneous calling out a group of DUers. That is an effort to further divide.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)One of the reasons I have a hard time taking certain posters seriously anymore.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)And we were told to STFU too...AND blamed for every election lost. Never mind the fact that we had nothing to do with elections being lost. And people talked about as a "wedge" issue and we were treated as persona non grata here on DU by many people.
Now, gay rights are starting to happen, despite those who would rather we had STFU about it. Most of the country is going more liberal and opening up to giving us rights. Hell, even in my Bible Belt small town in the south, they just had a gay wedding announcement in the paper and the mother of one of the men is very proud of her son and loves him very much. That is something I never thought I would see here. So, things are changing despite the insistence that we STFU.
There are not a limited number of rights to go around. Giving rights to those of us who have never had them ever before is NOT going to take away anyone else's rights. And discussing issues here on DU that are outside of your rigid definition of what is acceptable will not have any effect on election outcomes. DU is just not THAT important when it comes to actual elections. The place was started when Bush stole 2000. So, that should give you some idea of how DU doesn't control the outcomes of elections. That is not how it works.
You just want people of color and women (and probably wanted the GLBT community) to STFU because you find the fact that we don't worship you uncomfortable. It's called reality. The straight, white-centered patriarchy cannot last when everyone who doesn't fit that description is being treated worse than second class citizens. We live this reality, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, but don't expect us to kiss your ass while you deny what we go through in life. We are going to tell you to check your privilege whether you want to hear it or not.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)So tell me which of my privileges you'd like to take from me? Bear in mind, I'm on record as agreed on institutional racism's existence, I just don't agree that my life is full of "privilege". This entire concept has gotten so far off into the weeds, it's hardly salvageable. We are all on the same side. It's just that on this issue, there are people willing to destroy others over the fact that my life doesn't resemble privilege and I won't bow down to the thought police.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)We are not on the same side if that is how you view this discussion.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Where are the positive suggestions and potential solutions? All these threads become are some exercise of party thought purity.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)I'm sorry, but color me confused, I don't usually work with people on problems who deny they exist. Or think that it is they who are being asked to give something up, in terms of this discussion. Usually when they say, what do you want me to give up, it's a lost cause, because NO ONE has asked for anything to be given up.. That's never been part of the equation.
So, I guess before you try and demand thought purity from me, we ought to at least have an understanding of what the issue is.
Excuse me for expecting that. I thought it was common sense.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Which then, to me, implies it ought to be scaled back or taken away. I've acknowledged institutional racism exists. Sexism exists. So I'm not understanding how racism and sexism and discrimination mean I'm privileged. It means to me, that those societal transgressions need to be roted out. Nothing more or less than that. I don't acknowledge in any way, shape or form that I'm privileged, as though it's a heavy burden to bear and feel guilty and ashamed of. What I've asked repeatedly of those who insist on getting inside my head is....what do you propose we white men do to try and stamp out racism and sexism? I never get answers beyond the insistence that I'm "privileged". The entire exercise becomes nothing but a flame fest because I will not allow you or any other to force me to accept something which I'm not guilty of. My life is as normal as I can imagine it to be. I did not cause nor perpetuate racism or sexism. Am I privileged? That's a fucking sick joke, right?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)You want to control the meaning of the conversation. Until you get the gist of what is actually being said, I'm not sure I can be of much help to you.
Take care.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)"Control the meaning of the conversation". EXACTLY why these endless flame-fest threads are pointless and counter-productive. My push back against the left's purity of thought and terminology patrol is totally about control, and these same people can't stand it that not everyone bows down to their self appointed loftiness. As many posters have pointed out, it helps NO ONE to heap bullshit upon people who will never see or feel that in their daily lives they are "privileged".
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)to get rid of the few posters of color on the site so you don't have to deal with the discomfort of hearing about everyday racism.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)For months... no threads on a topic.
Then, all of sudden, DOZENS of threads on a topic.... despite nothing in the news that would cause that particular topic to become "hot" at that time.
This is a coordinated effort. Has nothing to do with color this month or gender last month. They *WANT* Democrats arguing with each other... and they're succeeding.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)I hate it as well. A person posts a thread on an issue, or even mentions it within a single post. Then tons of threads pop up saying how awful the person was to raise that issue. Then more threads pop up about how that second group didn't understand the issue. Then more threads pop up about how people who don't agree with whoever are idiots, racists, fascists, authoritarian, whatever.
Look at Glen Greenwald. Why do we have to have hundreds of threads on that one guy? This place operates in cycles.
The only time Democrats don't argue is when they are united around a shared enemy, like Bush. People can't even agree on loose support for the President. People who defend Obama are now called authoritarians and shills. This is one of many issues.
You can always use trash by keyword.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)to just let it go when one of a certain handful of posters insists these issues either aren't real or don't matter or aren't that big of a deal.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)about posters he is alleging to have honest discussions with, and that now he knows for sure the points raised aren't valid.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)...
boston bean
(36,221 posts)most democrats disagree with.
You're a charm.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Sounds awfully familiar. Where have I heard before? Oh, I know: The GOP.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Good god, it's just plain stupid.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)Agree or else! Scary
boston bean
(36,221 posts)when in reality, it is you who seems extremely bothered by the fact that I don't agree with you.
You can't see that. Which one of use the purest of the purity purest? huh...
whistler162
(11,155 posts)July is Blonde and Blue Eye Right handed heterosexual white male privileged!
seaglass
(8,171 posts)that DUers were not arguing with each other?
In all those years you have never noticed waves of discussion on single topics? What the heck do you think keyword hiding was created for?
I find it really interesting that for some reason white privilege and gender threads are disturbing enough to some that they do not fit into the way DU has always been, that discussing these topics are part of a conspiracy.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)It's the carpet-bombing of DU with multiple threads on the same issue.... seemingly out of the blue.... that is intriguing.
Yes.... there are typically waves on particular topics.... but those come when the particular topics are in the news.
These recent waves are not organic like that. They come out of nowhere. It isn't like white privilege has all of a sudden been a hot news topic.
This is a coordinated effort by some to drive wedges in DU's membership. And some of those involved have apparently admitted as much.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)We don't need a news story for it to be topical for us.
And we have been talking about them for years. It's too bad your little rightwing opinion sharing PM friends have exploited your lack of awareness to their advantage.
But hey, they're not the disruptors!
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)It is NOT organic!!
redqueen
(115,103 posts)seaglass
(8,171 posts)white privilege and gender without knowing where they come from. Sometimes how conversations arise are not as straightforward as "it's in the news", sometimes it is related to other discussions on this board and they actually do have organic growth if you are paying attention. I am glad that we have discussions that aren't tied only to what CNN or the NYT thinks is important.
In any case, if people are so weak-minded that a discussion or multiple discussions about gender or white privilege is going to make them run for the Republicans then the likelihood is they weren't really Dems anyways.
Damansarajaya
(625 posts)To assume everyone who wants this kind of divisiveness must be non-white, non-male, non-straight and assume everyone who dislikes it is white, and dislikes it only because they find the "truth" to be unpleasant for their privileged life.
It assumes that blacks and women and Chicanos and gays etc. are a single, monolithic block that all think the same way (or would if they could only see through the lies of the white male patriarchy).
One could make the case--if one wanted to sow dissention--that this attitude ("we minorities all think alike" is racist or misogynist or homophobic. But I won't use those words against other DUers.
And I hope and wish other people would stop using them against their DU colleagues.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)or join websites like this. The Democratic Party is majority women and people of color. While DU doesn't share the same demographic of the party, some of us are here. We're going to care about issues some other folks don't--like civil rights. I realize it's annoying when we don't stay in our place, but you can handle it. Or you can post somewhere that doesn't let the in the riff raff like me and the few posters of color who remain.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Some people want to talk about current events and ideas, others want to be told what they want to hear.
dawg
(10,624 posts)There is a real problem when people take personal offense to discussions of "white privilege" or "rape culture". Either they don't fully understand what those concepts mean, or else they just don't give a damn about issues that exist outside of their own personal experience.
bhikkhu
(10,716 posts)As a 50-ish white male I've seen the privilege for ages. I hate it that my wife, my aunts and my female co-workers have had to struggle against wage and job discrimination, to gain what has always been offered or given to me. I hate it that my daughters are growing up with limited expectations, which began in school and are obvious in the workplace.
I also hate it that racial discrimination has worked to segregate and under-pay black and hispanic workers. Even if there weren't blatant racism I could see and hear, its obvious in the statistics. Its a problem and we can't address it or have much hope for change if discussion is beaten down and side-tracked.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)on a progressive discussion board is weird, then that is your problem. Seriously? This is where you plant your flag? Discussions of white privilege and rape. "Rape threads a month ago" as you say. That is your issue. What the hell is going on here when people are bothered by these discussions. The only ones bothered are the ones who feel uncomfortable reading them.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Neither subject was talked about hardly at all for months on end.... then all of a sudden, dozens of threads on the topic.
That's curious and not so random.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Conversations go in waves here. Always have. Some just feel uncomfortable with the topic of the moment. Some like to feel that this board and their own interactions with it are so influential that it is outside forces. And yes, this is regular discussion for du.
OregonBlue
(7,754 posts)I don't want to waste my time fighting with other dems or trolls.
ismnotwasm
(41,980 posts)What an interesting comment.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)crap= anything I don't care about.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)and others actually have to deal with every day. We have to deal with a bunch of real crap on a daily basis. The least you could do is learn to hide thread and let us talk about our "crap" lack of equal rights. Your OP is white privilege and misogyny personified. If it doesn't affect you, you don't even want others discussing it. You have just shown the rest of us how selfish and myopic you can be.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)I've been here 12 years and now because of these incessant threads, as a white male I'm no longer welcome here unless I check my opinion at the door and bow down to the liberal thought police. Yesterday I contemplated leaving for good. I've reconsidered and vow that people like the usual culprits are not beating me into submission. The people with an axe to grind have offered no positive solutions to the threads they post, and then use them to bludgeon any counter responses. From now forward, I will attempt to get these flame trolling threads locked.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)blame no one but yourself.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)
opiate69
(10,129 posts)
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)4ish days and she'll be off timeout again.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)and it's everyone else's fault? Oh, and good luck with trying to get things locked - as long as they meet the posting terms of the forum (which they do), it's okay for others to discuss them. This is regardless of whether you approve of the topic or not.
So who's trying for the censorship you so bitterly decry now?
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Damansarajaya
(625 posts)I discovered the "Trash this forum" and "ignore" feature.
Makes DU suck a lot less . . .
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Enjoy your stay.
Damansarajaya
(625 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Welcome to America.
Rex
(65,616 posts)active again after years and years of no posting. Very interesting.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Nothing to see here.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I gave up long ago trying to figure out the source. It is like staring into the abyss.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)but I'm surprised the conspiracy theorists aren't embarrassed.
Demonaut
(8,916 posts)which is only how far back it lists........I post occasionally, not frequently.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Just a simple observation, sorry if it rubbed you the wrong way.
Demonaut
(8,916 posts)
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)
onecaliberal
(32,861 posts)in Congress introducing legislation to control the bodies of men, control the money they can earn, or their family planning options.
LeftOfWest
(482 posts)THAT is the point, or so I thought...
onecaliberal
(32,861 posts)People who want to deny that fact are in denial of reality.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I doubt you'll see anyone here seriously argue otherwise, except maybe a conservatroll, or one of the nuttiest wanderers from TMG.....
onecaliberal
(32,861 posts)women stripped of our rights to control our own bodies and plan family or even make a living wage. So in fact, I do see people here that are supposedly Dems arguing against by virtue of asking people to stop talking about it. We are probably talking about these issues more presently because it is primary season and we are looking at issues, and candidates.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)One both sides of the argument. Very rarely does a good discussion take place. It breaks out into pointing fingers at certain posters for having an opinion. Or asking a question on what to do to help.
Every time I see someone arguing with "name removed" that is not a member of MIRT, I have the opinion they are just looking for a fight.
We need to learn to trash thread, or ignore the OP's that are so divisive on both sides. If we continue to participate in those threads, we are also missing Meta. The fighting stops if one side or the other will not engage.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)
randys1
(16,286 posts)You know who is really good at ignoring differences for the betterment of the whole?
Republicans are better at it than anybody, all they ask is you "give in here" "Give in there" just so we can all agree that we hate minorities and Gays and working people and so on (speaking now as a teapartier or con).
No thanks, I want our community to be stronger because we have differences and because we argue about them and because we are unwilling to accept the least denial of reality like how devastating racism and homophobia and misogyny is.
We can and WILL still all show up on election day and NOT vote for the terrorists...anybody who takes the time to post on this board is gonna vote, and if you were voting Democrat but I pissed you off so now you arent, nah...bullshit
Response to Demonaut (Original post)
Post removed
alp227
(32,025 posts)Videos in channel include fox news clips like
"Kyle Olson Exposes White Privilege Conference 2014"
"Dana Loesch previews exclusive White Privilege"
RainDog
(28,784 posts)from some on the left - or spoken so, in spite of repeated explanations of these issues.
I thought much of this, in the past, was due to personal animosities - but this is just plain disgusting to see, frankly, and disrespectful of the absolutely verifiable realities that some face that others do not.
SaltyBro
(198 posts)They need to check their privilege and get out the Kitchen.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)but that's ok
ecstatic
(32,704 posts)It's been weird ever since Thanksgiving last year. Now that I think about it, that marked a year before the midterms. Make no mistake, these are very important issues, but it seems to come from a disingenuous place. Maybe the troll leaders/employers felt it would be easier to distract us with "hot topics."
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)How little people who claim to be Democrats or liberals care about the experiences of people of color and women.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)...does not equate to not caring about the experiences of people of color and women.
Some of us understand the concept of white privilege (and have for freaking decades now), but don't find it an especially fruitful means of advancing the struggle for racial and social justice. It generally seems to me to be the domain of quite privileged white student activists and a certain ultra political set.
You see the controversy it creates here, a progressive, avowedly pro-Democratic Party discussion board. How does it play in Peoria?
I follow real world policy that often intersects with race. I see real struggles and, sometimes, real progress being made, as in federal sentencing reform laws that will disproportionately benefit black people because they got disproportionately screwed by them in the first place and the court-ordered end to racially biased stop-and-frisks in New York City, for example. Discussions of white privilege weren't part of the discourse. They weren't necessary. Everybody got it.
We can burn up the discussion boards talking white privilege all we want; meanwhile, real things are going on.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)especially when you've demonstrated you refuse to pay attention to the most basic arguments they make.
Arguing that people who have the nerve to care about those issues must be paid disrupters reveals an idea of politics that excludes women and people of color. Many in this thread have made clear they see us as entirely illegitimate, don't wish to be allied with us in any way, and any concerns we have are entirely driven by the RW. So be it. Nothing I can do about any of that other than recognize what people are.
I've seen really hurtful, cruel comments made to posters of color today, and they turn my stomach. People here have hurt people I care about. The level of contempt for the lives and concerns of the non white male segments of society by some on this board is repulsive. I can't stop any of it. All I can do is recognized it and voice my concern.
These threads on DU have been an experience for me. I've spent my life living in liberal cities and working at universities. I don't encounter people who hold such views in real life and have always associated those arguments with Republicans. To learn Democrats voice the same arguments has been an eye opener. As that chart someone posted the other day shows, party affiliation has little influence on racism.
I guess I was used to having feminist issues shit all over, and I shouldn't be surprised that the same people have the same level of respect for the concerns of people of color they do for those of feminists. I knew people voiced troubling ideas. I just didn't realize how deeply it went.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)...be viewed primarily through the prism of white privilege. Or that one is somehow not anti-racist or even an actual racist if he or she doesn't embrace the white privilege construct.
I do wonder how much of it is a generational thing. A difference in language. That's what frustrates me about this whole discussion. Is there really anybody on DU (other than the occasional troll) who is a racist? I think we're all pretty much not.
There may indeed be a bubble effect going on for you. Over the years, I've spent most of my time in decidedly liberal places or progressive milieus, and have occasionally found myself shocked that the whole country isn't like that. I recall going back to South Dakota and getting into a conversation about someone's unplanned pregnancy. What to do, what to do? Well, when I mentioned abortion as an option, all the air went out of the room. Some of 'em looked at like I was a monster. Ooh, we're not in Austin anymore, Toto. We tend to forget sometimes that our default positions are not those of large segments of the country.
I can't and won't speak for other posters on this thread.
I trashed a bunch of white privilege threads, including one of my own. I don't intend to post on the topic a whole lot because I don't see it as very useful, especially these DU discussions. But I'm sure I'll see ya around.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)at all. I've seen more than enough to make me permanently ill. You have heard that an African American member was badly hurt today, and you doubt that anyone is racist?
I am learning by example. I will no longer read or look at posts I don't feel like. Clearly my life, my existence and that of people I care about is irrelevant to some here, so shall be theirs to me.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)If so, I hope they were alerted on and dealt with properly. I really don't think DU tolerates racists.
But I don't know if being "badly hurt" is the same thing. People of all stripes seem to get their feelings hurt around here.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)The left in general, is, by and large, far more willing to combat racism than even the moderate right ever has been.....especially in this day and age.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)OP linking a racist article on an extreme right-wing and openly racist site, that a jury voted 5-2 to leave and numerous hosts defend not locking. That looks pretty fucking tolerant of racists from where I sit.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)But it doesn't change the facts surrounding what I have pointed out.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)You can't say "DU isn't tolerant of racism" when there's a pretty obvious example right there.
Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)
mn9driver
(4,425 posts).
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)No snark intended, BTW. But with people using those on threads that they may not like, it can go a long way to making DU more peaceful and not having posters divided. People who want to discuss race/gender/sexuality issues can, while those who don't want to can stay out of those threads.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)lots of good comments are made if people stopped being offended and just READ what people have to say on these issues. the doubling down against all this is disturbing on a supposedly progressive discussion board. it's a fucking in your face insult to minority members, gay members, or many of the women here when their experiences are poo pooed and denied by folks who never had to experience the same.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)will fight about and miss the other political issues.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)That means plenty of hired chumps told what to post on message boards, face book, news story comments or blog on the free blogger sites across our world.
Republicans are afraid to give their voters a voice, a nice 'public' discussion message board like DU has.
Someone just lets their 'Hobbits' and 'squidges' (what R McCain calls the little rs) have that crappy freeRep message board, and funds places like the KKK message board for the republican hobbits.
Even their R-fox doesn't allow public comments on most of their 'lies' news stories.
Lunacee_2013
(529 posts)Life? Some people do have to put up with that crap.
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)n/t
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)and you wonder where this crap is emanating from?
Just take a look around you on any given day.