Wouldn't it be nice to have a REAL American Spring,

[woo me with science]

that focused on the real hijacking of this country by corporate interests?

One that wasn't co-opted by corporate media and propagandists to ramp up partisan divisions and ridicule the idea of real change?

One that didn't set the people against each other so that there is always one group ridiculing the other and ensuring that no real change can ever happen, because the people cannot unite against the corporate vultures bleeding all of us?

One that focused on the fleecing of ALL of us, the 99 percent, and the fact that corporate interests have stolen our representation in this country?

One that focused on bringing all Americans together to get corporate money out of our politics and our media, and return our governent to the people?

[villager]

1. Well, the "message-massagers" appear to even have groups on sites like this ridiculing each other

All of which speaks to your point. It's probably not by accident, and keeps our 1% "friends" happily whistlin' along, unopposed...

[Hugin]

2. You mean instead of the Astroturf extravaganza we're now witnessing?

You're probably, correct.

[bigtree]

3. it's not realistic that there would be just one encompassing protest

. . . still, if you measured the combined efforts that were/are made on behalf of OWS,for example, you find a pretty sizable movement. That accumulating agitation, combined with an effort to introduce those ideals in the form of initiatives in some aspect of the political process is what really moves debates and ideals forward.

[LongTomH]

4. There are movements building - not just in the US

There are the strikes by fast food workers for a decent wage, the protests against the XXL pipeline going on across the country today, and the movement to amend the constitution eliminate corporate personhood and the idea that money is equivalent to constitutionally protected free speech.

There is communication and sometimes coordination between these movements. If we can keep 'eyes on the prize,' we may be able to bring real change. I'm old enough that it may not happen in my lifetime; but, it can for the young people coming up today.

[SidDithers]

5. What's stopping you?...nt

Sid

[MannyGoldstein]

38. Maybe she's not a banker, or inheritor of great wealth,

so she can't get things done by handing cash to the people who make and enforce our laws?

[SidDithers]

40. Excuses, excuses...nt

Sid

[llmart]

39. My thoughts exactly.

n/t

[Helen Borg]

6. It may happen...

Look, all systems are being stretched. All it takes is just the right catalyst for huge numbers of people to say f*ck it, this is enough. Not sure what that could be. Perhaps another stock market crash with major losses for pension funds and all. many people are at a point where they have absolutely no buffers anymore.

[radiclib]

7. I gotcher American Spring right here

http://www.wolf-pac.com

I'm open to better ideas, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Taitertots]

8. We don't need a "spring". We already have democratic representation. We need...

To turn off the television.
Boycott Koch goods/services
Take your money away from the banks
Take your money away from the corporations (stocks, bonds...)

[merrily]

12. No, Koch has representation. We have only an illusion of it.

[smallcat88]

17. Hear, hear!

You forgot one: we ALL need to VOTE!

[JVS]

9. Most of the springs I've seen seem to end really badly for the people involved.

So no thanks.

[merrily]

13. Maybe, the idea is to find a different way to go about it.

[Dustlawyer]

10. When, not if it happens, I hope that the only focus is on Complete Campaign Finance Reform (CCFR)

and Publicly Funded Elections. This would attack the root problem which is that the corporations and the 1% have all of the access because they hold the purse strings to keep these corrupt Representatives in office. If we could come out in massive numbers, Democrats and Republicans alike, we could make this happen. After we have OUR reps in place the other problems can then be addressed with the true will of the People.
I know, I'll keep dreaming!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

11. You mean call a bribe a bribe instead of "speech"?

[merrily]

14. Doesn't matter what we call it, as long as our so-called representatives get to define

a bribe however they wish.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. Ponder this: Americans are fixated on only ONE branch of government. The executive....

Occasionally the Legislative but we tend to ignore the Judicial.

There's big money in corporate law and the judges who rule on it live the lifestyle of the CEOs in their courts.

[merrily]

20. Agree, though my comment went to the legislative.

And, unless the legislative controls the judiciary via impeachment, there's nothing we can do about that branch.

A while back, a couple of men wrote a book about impeachment, saying that the Framers intended it to be used as an ordinary tool not as the untouchable thing we view it as today.

That was probably a better thing in 1789 than today because state legislatures or only a very select few individual voters and electors, had any say at all. So, if impeachment of Presidents were frequent then, it would not have been overturning the will of the populace as a whole. However, even today, the people have only the most theoretical say in who sits on the federal bench. The Executive and federal legislatures put them there, but they don't remove them. So, there is no control whatever for the people, even a theoretical one.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

28. The will of the populace is irrelevant to Republicans....

Look at Bush.

Most people voted against him and he swaggered in as if he was elected in a landslide.

[merrily]

29. Yeah, it's only the Republicans that don't heed the voice of the people.

Jesus, I can't take it any more.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

33. At least Democrats care about their image.

[merrily]

46. And Republicans don't? I'd rather they cared about us.

Each side cares about its own image--and its own re-election.

And each side understands its own base. Republicans who appeal to Democrats get primaried or voted out of office (or they "retire" because they know they'll lose, or they change parties in hopes of winning that way, ala Lieberman, Specter and Crist) and vice versa.

I apologize for the last line of my post, though. It was not really about you.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

47. Republicans have only a fringe....

This might have a LOT to do with it....



Hate for a black guy doesn't make people run back to THAT.

[merrily]

48. Sorry, I am not following.

Republicans have only a fringe of what? The general population?

IOW, are you saying that Republicans are a minority party? If so, I agree--and becoming more so all the time.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

49. That's why they HAVE to prevent voting.

[merrily]

50. Yes. Especially in populous locations.

[merrily]

15. Thanks, woomewithscience. It would be great.

The deciders and dividers do too good a job of dividing us.

And only a few of us are willing to unite, even on an issue by issue basis.

[yodermon]

16. it was supposed to be occupy wall street.

It still could be.

[merrily]

22. Actually, it was supposed to be another Occupy Washington, D.C.

That had been planned in advance and was pretty well organized, with speakers like Chris Hedges lined up. The occupation of D.C. was supposed to start early in October. October 6 seems to ring a bell in my memory. It had a website way in advance and some of us had been trying to publicize it.

But, somehow, a group in NYC started Occupy Wall Street a few weeks earlier and the D.C thing never happened.

A plot that worked? A NYC group genuinely and authentically gone rogue because they could wait no more? I have no idea.

[smallcat88]

19. I think it's only a matter of time

It's the same old problem: most people aren't really paying attention. They might watch local news or don't watch the news at all. They're secure and complacent in a democracy they believe is secure and don't have a clue how much people like the Kochs are working overtime to undermine it. It won't be until more and more people start to personally feel the effects in their own lives that a real pushback will begin. Just hope it's not too late! Apathy is one of the greatest enemies to real democracy. The Koch brothers and their ilk know that.

[merrily]

23. Democracy is citizens voting on things like war, the national budget, etc. as in Ancient Athens.

What we have is a republic, as Ancient Rome, where Senators voted on things, as a check on the emperor.

The PTB in 1789 were scared of the people. That's why they wrote the Constitution as they did. Over time, it's been improved some, but we are still a republic. We are not now, nor have we ever been, a democracy.

We do now (in theory) choose the Senators and the Representatives democratically, in that, now, most adult citizens have a right to vote. However, between the money men, the "two"-party system, the RNC and the DNC recruiting people to run and supporting only their picks, etc. our ability even to choose our alleged representatives is becoming less and less of a reality.

In reality, we have become a plutonomy, in which the economy runs the nation for the benefit of the wealthy and the form of government is not really that significant, or, at best, a plutocracy.

[smallcat88]

25. I was speaking broadly, of course

But thank you! You are absolutely right. Sad, but true. And it's pretty obvious that our Republic is much more of a plutocracy now. I lived in Switzerland for a few years when I was in high school (late 70's, early 80's). You can't cut down a tree in that country without the local population voting on it, but even there you can find plenty of evidence of money polluting the system. Bottom line, it doesn't matter what the political system is - everything comes down to $$$$$. I'm sick of it - I want a true democracy!

[merrily]

26. An awful lot has been invested in convincing us that we live in a democracy that we control.

(And I do mean awful.) Especially Democrats. So, I try to do my bit to cut against it if I can.

Republicans, on the other hand, tried to convince their lot that the Framers set up the country to be ruled by a few. (There is a reason that Republicans, but, not Democrats, almost deify the Federalist papers, penned in great part by the democracy-phobic Madison.

And, there is a grain of truth to what each side tries hardest to sell its group.

Some theorize that Athenian citizens could have democracy only because they had slaves. (I have to question the person or persons who came up with this.)

The theory is that, without slaves, they could not have kept their farms or businesses going while they strolled to the assembly to listen to debates and then to vote on this issue or that. (Even at the that, the military in Athens and elsewhere drove a lot of the decision making while this nation or that was busy empire building and seeking domination of such of the world as was known to them, aka "national defense.&quot

But, with modern technology and transportation, truly universal voting would be easy, if only citizens would fund their own "think tanks."

[Blanks]

31. I don't believe that people aren't paying attention...

One of the side-effects of 'corporate owned America' is that a lot of people that work - work for big companies, and they aren't going to trade taking care of their family for making waves.

Beyond that - I personally can't drop everything and occupy anything (even though I work for a small company) because I need to work everyday as well as meet other family commitments.

It will keep getting worse until too many people to ignore have nothing to lose. There's no excuse for people to not vote, but high energy activism isn't realistic for a huge portion of the population. Sure, you can get folks to sign online petitions and small activities like that, but who wants to trade what little they have for nothing.

[Whisp]

21. I thought I recognized some familiar faces

in those group shots of 11 people.

[snooper2]

24. you want to do it Egypt style?

Should we starting packing supplies and blacking out the windows in our SUVs?

[merrily]

27. All we know of "Egypt style" is what the media tells us.

And a lot of what the media tells us is based on what one government or the other, including our own, tells the media.

IMO, the whole narrative we were fed about the Egyptian spring, Morsi and this general who is about to win another fake election is ludicrous.

[snooper2]

34. VICE

[struggle4progress]

30. Wouldn't it be nice to start with some concrete definite goals rather than windy abstractions?

Given a concrete definite goal, we can develop concrete definite tactics to try to obtain it; we can see whether or not our efforts seem to lead to any success; we can study how our opposition reacts and adjust our course accordingly

[Blanks]

32. It's difficult to get people to agree on a concrete definite goal...

A lot of people would choose overturning citizens united and that's gonna be about as hard as overturning abortion rights.

Congress needs to write a law that won't get overturned - approach it from a different angle. Tax these contributions at a ridiculously high rate and provide some of the tax money to the opposing view.

What we learned from the Obamacare appeal is that if it's a tax it will stand. Congress can't restrict free speech, but they have the authority to tax. Whether you agree with this supreme courts definition of money as speech is immaterial - we aren't going to change their definition.

You are right in concept though - it is getting people to agree that's difficult.

[Fumesucker]

36. Abortion rights are close to gone for most practical purposes in a lot of states

[Blanks]

44. The opposition approached it in a different way...

They didn't overturn Roe v Wade. Which was the battle cry.

Just as we aren't going to overturn Citizens United. If we want campaign finance reform, we have to pass a law that the Supreme Court won't overturn.

I get annoyed when I get a lot of fund raising emails saying that we need to overturn 'Citizens United'. It's a waste of time and effort. Just another distraction, an example of the democrats trying to use an issue that people are emotional about to raise funds.

[randome]

41. Instead of choosing the most important from our long list of reforms...

...we need to choose something much smaller that can galvanize a good number of others. If something smaller gets through, it can lead to more major reforms.

I would propose infrastructure repairs but I'm afraid that won't happen until a bridge collapses and kills a good number of people. So...something else.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[Blanks]

42. I agree, and I like infrastructure repair...

But, people need to be able to get behind a simple idea that doesn't take a lot of effort.

Similar to the way the tea party stands for 'liberty' and 'freedom', but the message has to have a specific action by the government associated with it (whereas freedom and liberty don't).

If like to see an end to homeless veterans and the federal government owns a lot of empty houses. That's an issue that a lot of people could get behind. Set up a program to transfer ownership.

What I see are a lot of laws designed to drive a wedge between the pro-gun/anti-gun types the pro-life/pro-choice LGBT/Christian etc. I think these are distractions to get people to take sides against one another.

We need to pick a 'congress needs to take action now' issue that 90% of the people will support so that people will talk to their neighbor that watches only Fox News. Get people talking to one another about something besides divisive issues. Then we can start demanding specific actions.

I also think we should have a program to put solar panels on the roofs of people near retirement. Eliminate that future expense for folks soon to be on a fixed income.

[Ilsa]

45. It won't happen until the bridge that collapses

Kills republicans in their home district. I suspect the GOP would still deny infrastructure rebuilding if big name democrats died in a collapse. Yes, I think most of them are that heartless.

[Exposethefrauds]

35. That would be nice but it is not gonna happen. Most are not willing to do what it would take so

they opt to serve on their knees instead.

[xchrom]

37. du rec.

[alfredo]

43. With less pollen?