Why Former Spy Valerie Plame Thinks Hillary Clinton is A lot Like FDR

[ProSense]

Why Former Spy Valerie Plame Thinks Hillary Clinton is A lot Like FDR

By Liz Kreutz

Presidential candidate-in-waiting Hillary Clinton already has backing from top politicians, influential celebrities — and from a famous former spy.

Former CIA agent Valerie Plame and her husband, former U.S. Ambassador Joe Wilson, were special guests of honor at a fundraising event Wednesday in Santa Fe, N.M., for the pro-Hillary Clinton Super PAC Ready for Hillary. The couple supported Hillary Clinton during the 2008 primary, and they’ve made their renewed endorsement for 2016 known early.

<...>

Does Hillary Clinton know you’re part of Ready for Hillary?
I imagine she does. I dare say Hillary Clinton has many, many friends. But she has to know that we’re engaged. She was very kind to us when Joe and I went through the darkest days of the leak of my name in 2003. And of course Joe worked in the Clinton White House.

<...>

Which past president would you compare Hillary Clinton to?
FDR comes to mind as a person who has such a sweep of experience as she does. I mean, across the board: legislative, executive policy. Even those that hate Hillary admit she is a work horse and not a show horse. She gets down into the nuts and bolts and figures out “what’s the policy, what’s the substance?”

- more -

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/05/why-former-spy-valerie-plame-thinks-hillary-clinton-is-the-next-fdr/

Interesting.

[ProSense]

1. Kick for

Hillary "FDR" Clinton

[yellowcanine]

21. Karl Rove should have gone to prison for what he did to Valerie Plame.

Just sayin'.

[randys1]

28. +10,000,000

First Valerie should be allowed to slap him in the face, real hard

[McCamy Taylor]

65. Plus infinity.

Plame and her husband were for Clinton last time, too, so no surprise. Oh, and Hi! ProSense!

[Nye Bevan]

127. It was actually Richard Armitage who "outed" Plame.

What did Rove do to her that deserved prison time?

[yellowcanine]

133. Rove was in deep and very likely committed perjury about it. He claims a faulty memory

and he managed to convince Fitzgerald of that, apparently - but who really believes that Rove would not remember a conversation about Valerie Plame with a reporter (Cooper)? According to an email, Rove even discussed the conversation he had with Cooper with Steven Hadley. Also Chris Matthews claims that Rove told him that Plame was "fair game." Who you going to believe? Rove clearly lied a number of times about how much he knew about Plame and his role in getting the story out to reporters. Plame's role in the CIA was classified. Rove confirmed the CIA connection to Novak and at the least discussed Plame with Matthews and Cooper. For that alone he should have been prosecuted. And then there is the likely perjury as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair
In July 2005, it was revealed that Karl Rove was Novak's second Bush administration source.[67]

In his grand jury testimony, Rove testified he learned of Plame's CIA affiliation from journalists and not from government officials. Rove testified that Novak called him in July 2003 to discuss a story unrelated to Plame or Wilson. Eventually, according to Rove, Novak told him he planned to report in an upcoming column that Plame worked for the CIA. Rove told the grand jury that by the time Novak had called him, he had already learned of Plame from other reporters, but that he could not recall which reporters had told him. When Novak inquired about Wilson's wife working for the CIA, Rove indicated he had heard something like that, according to the source's recounting of the grand jury testimony for the Associated Press. Rove told the grand jury that three days later, he had a phone conversation with Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper and, in an effort to discredit some of Wilson's allegations, informally told Cooper that he believed Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, though he never used her name. Rove also testified to the grand jury that he had heard from Libby that Plame worked for the CIA. Rove testified that Libby told him that he heard the information from journalists.[68][69]

The indictment of Libby states: "On or about July 10 or July 11, 2003, LIBBY spoke to a senior official in the White House ("Official A&quot who advised LIBBY of a conversation Official A had earlier that week with columnist Robert Novak in which Wilson’s wife was discussed as a CIA employee involved in Wilson’s trip. LIBBY was advised by Official A that Novak would be writing a story about Wilson’s wife." Though never confirmed by Fitzgerald, it has been reported that Rove was "Official A."[70][71]

Shortly after the publication of Novak's article, Rove also reportedly called Chris Matthews and told him off the record that "Wilson's wife is fair game."[30][72]

On July 2, 2005, Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, confirmed that Rove spoke to Time reporter Matt Cooper "three or four days" before Plame's identity was first revealed in print by commentator Robert Novak. Cooper's article in Time, citing unnamed and anonymous "government officials," confirmed Plame to be a "CIA official who monitors the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction." Cooper's article appeared three days after Novak's column was published. Rove's lawyer asserted that Rove "never knowingly disclosed classified information" and that "he did not tell any reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA."[73][74][75] Luskin also has said that his client did not initiate conversations with reporters about Plame and did not encourage reporters to write about her.[76]

Initially, Rove failed to tell the grand jury about his conversations with Cooper. According to Rove, he only remembered he had spoken to Cooper after discovering a July 11, 2003, White House e-mail that Rove had written to then-deputy National Security advisor Stephen J. Hadley in which Rove said he had spoken to Cooper about the Niger controversy. Luskin also testified before the grand jury. He told prosecutors that Time reporter Viveca Novak had told him prior to Rove's first grand jury appearance that she had heard from colleagues at Time that Rove was one of the sources for Cooper's story about Plame. Luskin in turn said that he told Rove about this, though Rove still did not disclose to the grand jury that he had ever spoken to Cooper about Plame. Viveca Novak testified she couldn't recall when she spoke to Luskin. Rove testified a total of five times before the federal grand jury investigating the leak. After Rove's last appearance, Luskin released a statement that read in part: "In connection with this appearance, the special counsel has advised Mr. Rove that he is not a target of the investigation. Mr. Fitzgerald has affirmed that he has made no decision concerning charges."[69][77]

On July 11, 2006, Novak confirmed that Rove was his second source for his article that revealed the identity of Plame as a CIA agent, the source who confirmed what Armitage had told him.[78]

On February 12, 2007, Novak testified in Libby's trial. As Michael J. Sniffen of the Associated Press reports: "Novak testified he got confirmation from White House political adviser Karl Rove, who replied to him: 'Oh, you've heard that, too.' "[79]

Court documents reveal that in December 2004, Fitzgerald was considering pursuing perjury charges against Rove.[80][81]

On July 8, 2007, Rove spoke publicly about the investigation at the Aspen Ideas Festival question-and-answer session. Rove told the audience "My contribution to this was to say to a reporter, which is a lesson about talking to reporters, the words 'I heard that too,'...Remember, the underlying offense of Armitage talking to Novak was no violation. There was no indictment."[82][83]

On August 19, 2007, Rove was asked by David Gregory on Meet the Press about whether Rove considered Plame to be "fair game". Rove replied "No. And you know what? Fair game, that wasn’t my phrase. That’s a phrase of a journalist. In fact, a colleague of yours."[84] Rove has not denied he had a conversation with Matthews. Newsweek reported in October 2003 that a source familiar with Rove's side of the conversation told Newsweek that Rove told Matthews it was "reasonable to discuss who sent [Joe] Wilson to Niger."[85]

After announcing his resignation from the Bush Administration, Rove appeared on Fox News Sunday and Meet the Press, and discussed his role in the Plame affair. According to Rove, he didn't believe he was a confirming source for Robert Novak and Matt Cooper with regard to Plame. Rove also reiterated that he first learned of Plame from another reporter, though would not disclose which reporter. Rove told Gregory "I acted in an appropriate manner, made all the appropriate individuals aware of my contact. I met with the FBI right at the beginning of this, told them everything. You’re right, the special prosecutor declined to take any action at all. I was never a target." Rove told Chris Wallace on Fox News Sunday "I didn't know her name, didn't know her status at the CIA."[84][86]

In his memoir, Courage and Consequence, Rove devotes three chapters to Wilson's NY Times op-ed and subsequent grand jury investigation. Rove writes that before his third appearance before the grand jury, Robert Luskin went back and looked through all of Rove's saved emails from April through September 2003. Luskin, according to Rove, uncovered an email Rove had written to Steve Hadley in which Rove discussed a conversation he had had with Matt Cooper concerning Wilson's op-ed. Rove writes that while the "email didn't jog any better recollection of the call", he immediately told Fitzgerald, after being sworn in, that he wanted to "set the record straight." After presenting the email to Fitzgerald, Rove writes that "it was as if I'd detonated a bomb in the shabby little room." Rove writes that before his fourth appearance before the grand jury he received a "target warning" by Fitzgerald. Rove describes his fourth appearance as "brutal from the first moment," and that the grand jury "hung on Fitzgerald's every word." After Rove's testimony, Fitzgerald told Luskin "All things being equal, we are inclined to indict your client." According to Rove, Luskin and Fitzgerald meet for hours in Chicago on October 20 to discuss the matter. At some point during the meeting, "Fitzgerald turned to what was really bothering him: my conversation with Matt Cooper. Was I lying about not being able to recall my phone conversation with him the morning of July 11, 2003?" Specifically, Rove writes, Fitzgerald wanted to know why "in December 2003 or January 2004 did I ask my aides...to find any evidence of contact with Matt Cooper." It was at this moment, according to Rove, that Luskin revealed his conversation with Viveca Novak in which Luskin learned that Cooper "had insisted around Time's Washington bureau that he had talked to [Rove about Plame]." Luskin then revealed to Fitzgerald that it was he who instructed Rove to have his aides find any records of that contact. According to Rove, Fitzgerald was "stunned", and stated to Luskin, "You rocked my world." Rove writes that it "was clear Fitzgerald had originally intended to indict Libby and me on the same day." Rove also writes that in the end, Luskin had a "charitable view of Fitzgerald...the prosecutor never leaked, and he treated Luskin with respect and was forthcoming about his evidence and concerns."[87]

[BlueCaliDem]

2. OUCH. That's gotta hurt some anti-Hillary peeps around here.

and rec'd.

Or do you think they'll toss Ms. Plame under the bus, too? Nah. Ms. Plame will be forgiven because IOKIYAOT (It's okay if you're against Obama, too).

[yellowcanine]

22. Not hurting me. Of course, I am not anti

Hillary. I think she will make a great President.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

76. Not in the least. The thought of another President Clinton...

doesn't appeal to me, but I agree with Plame re: the "sweep of experience."

See how easy that is?

[Octafish]

3. Did FDR work for Walmart, too?

Wonkish work.

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. I don't know did FDR work for Sam Walton or his brats?

[Octafish]

61. I doubt it. I do know Ms. Clinton did.

She was on the board of the anti-union Walmart.

Her service to Walmart is even more interesting, considering Walton financier Jackson Stephens and his role in BCCI.

Ever hear of Alan Quasha?

http://whowhatwhy.com/2007/10/18/hillarys-bush-connection/

A modern day investor, for sure.

[VanillaRhapsody]

73. Yeah when Sam owned it....

She left before the kids took over and turned it into an entirely different beast....

[Art_from_Ark]

80. It was heading that way even when Sam was in charge

I did some work at one of the warehouses in Bentonville back in the '80s, when Sam was still driving around Bentonville in his old pick-up truck and getting his hair cut at the $5 barber shop. Wages were low even back then-- around $790/month for a full-time employee.

For that matter, it pretty much started when Wal-Mart was listed on the stock exchange back in the '70s, and certainly got into high gear when shareholders started demanding dividends, rather than being content just with stock growth.

[VanillaRhapsody]

81. How can you even say that....ridic

[Art_from_Ark]

83. I can say that because I was there

Reading the local paper (Benton County Democrat), working at the warehouse, talking to former classmates and acquaintances who were working in other capacities for the company. Living within a mile of the first Wal-Mart Discount City, seeing it go head-to-head with Gibson's Discount Store and later Howard's, watching the Wal-Mart ads on TV after the stock exchange listing which bragged about how many new stores were being built.

[VanillaRhapsody]

84. are you there now to be able to tell the difference?

then how would you know?

That you think Walmart treats its employees the same now as when Sam is alive....just cracks me right up!

http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article/85510/after-sam-did-wal-mart-lose-its-way-after-walton-died

"My mother was an employee of Sam's," says Marsha Wardingly, a ten-year Sam's Club partner (the Sam's Club equivalent to "associate&quot who is active in the union drive. "It was a really good place to work. You got time and a half on Sundays. That disappeared six months to the day after Sam died. They just took so much away from us. One day we would get raises a dollar an hour at a time, and the next they they started rating us for raises of 10 to 50 cents." (Wardingly's memory differs insignificantly from Wal-Mart's: The company notes that time and a half stopped before Walton died but after he retired, and that raises are now generally between 25 and 60 cents an hour.) Sam's Club partners point not just to specific losses in benefits or pervasive understaffing but also to a more general deterioration in the relationship with management. "When you went to work at a Sam's Club, they would say, 'This is your Sam's Club,' " says Frank Lupiani, a nine-year employee. "Now they don't trust anyone."http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2002/03/18/319920/

You were saying?

[Art_from_Ark]

86. I still keep in touch with people who work there

It has been a gradual evolution, but the seeds were sown probably back in the '70s if not before, when it became apparent that Wal-Mart wouldn't be content to just be a local mom-and-pop operation.

My first memory of Wal-Mart dates from around Christmas 1963. So I've seen it evolve.

[VanillaRhapsody]

89. And I just posted the story of a woman who is trying to Unionize at Walmart whose mother

worked there before Sam died....that just said the opposite...

So you were saying?

"My mother was an employee of Sam's," says Marsha Wardingly, a ten-year Sam's Club partner (the Sam's Club equivalent to "associate&quot who is active in the union drive. "It was a really good place to work. You got time and a half on Sundays. That disappeared six months to the day after Sam died. They just took so much away from us. One day we would get raises a dollar an hour at a time, and the next they they started rating us for raises of 10 to 50 cents." (Wardingly's memory differs insignificantly from Wal-Mart's: The company notes that time and a half stopped before Walton died but after he retired, and that raises are now generally between 25 and 60 cents an hour.) Sam's Club partners point not just to specific losses in benefits or pervasive understaffing but also to a more general deterioration in the relationship with management. "When you went to work at a Sam's Club, they would say, 'This is your Sam's Club,' " says Frank Lupiani, a nine-year employee. "Now they don't trust anyone."

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2002/03/18/319920/

"6 mos to the day he died"

[Art_from_Ark]

90. You're talking Sam's, I'm talking Wal-Mart

I did work for Wal-Mart back in the '80s, when Sam was still alive.

[VanillaRhapsody]

91. sam thing...and here is another...

http://walmartsucks.livejournal.com/112771.html

and more...

http://gawker.com/decades-of-greed-behind-the-scenes-with-an-angry-walma-1517661634

"As I said before, Walmart was a good company to work for in relations to the retail sector. However I feel horrible for the associates I have to manage and the struggles they face. I ask this question, How come in 1999 Walmart could pay me over $10 an hour but in 2014 I hire people in at $8.00 an hour? I know Walmart will claim that the average associate makes $12.78 an hour. I have multiple degrees and one is in business. I don't need a degree in business to understand elementary statistics. The question that should be asked is what the Median pay of Walmart associates is? The typical associate (median) is under $9.00. I know this for a fact. Sure if you add all the ones who make $15-$20 an hour plus us managers that make $50,000 to $100,000 then you can get the $12.78 an hour average.
Below is something you may not be aware of and I will finish the email with this tidbit.
Walmart use to require us at the stores to have a 60%:40% ratio to Full-Time art-Time. Then I was told it had to be 40%:40%:20%, Full-Time art-Time:Temporary and to add insult we expect all associates to have open availability. Also Temporary associates can work at the store for six months to a year and not be entitle to any benefits. So if you have 100 associates, 40 FT, 40 PT, and 20 Temporary. Paying a lot less in benefits plus turn-over is high."


That dog don't hunt...apparently the working conditions at Walmart are now MUCH worse than you know....this previous statement came from a current Walmart manager...

[Art_from_Ark]

92. Like I said, it has been evolutionary

Sam was pretty much a tightwad, as the local newspapers reported. And wages were low even back in the '80s when I worked at one of the warehouses along Arkansas Highway 102 there in Bentonville. Things are no doubt getting worse now, but the seeds were planted for all this at least as early as the '70s, with the listing of Wal-Mart on the stock exchange which made it beholden to Wal-Street.

[VanillaRhapsody]

93. Yes...tightwads are not the worst people in the world....HOWEVER.....the Walton brats...

they are the vampires sucking their employees dry.....they pick their teeth with their bones...


and you are wrong Walmart has TOTALLY transformed since Sam left....his kids have NO empathy whatsoever....its a little bit more than "evolution".

[Art_from_Ark]

94. I tend to agree about the "Walton brats"

I certainly think they have way more money than they need and should share it with their employees nationwide. They have, at least, shared some of it with the people of Northwest Arkansas-- in the form of Crystal Bridges in Bentonville, which is a pretty amazing art museum, and the Walton Arts Center in Fayetteville, among others.

[VanillaRhapsody]

95. Then you agree...Walmart is entirely a different beast since Sam Walton died....

He was never nearly the blood suckers his kids are....and the changes started nearly the moment he passed.

[Art_from_Ark]

96. It's certainly an entirely different beast

from its mom-and-pop days of Wal-Mart Discount City. But wages were still low back in Sam's day and the company has been beholden to Wal-Street since at least the '70s. But I will concede that things have been going downhill at a faster pace in the post-Sam era.

[VanillaRhapsody]

103. until Sam Walmart died....then all bets were off.

then the business model became....take from the employees and never give them shit...

[Art_from_Ark]

120. Personally, I think Wal-Mart started going downhill around 1973 or 74, if not earlier

That's around the time when the Number 1 (Rogers, Arkansas) store moved from its original location on Walnut Street between 6th and 8th streets (shared with an IGA supermarket) to the Walnut Plaza Shopping Center (now practically a ghost town) just a stone's throw away on Walnut Street. The original store still had a folksy, mom-and-pop atmosphere about it, but the new store was bigger and less friendly. This move seems to have coincided more or less with Wal-Mart's listing on the New York Stock Exchange-- or at least, with its first dividend (5 cents/share) issued in 1974. Also around that time, their local TV commercials started bragging about how many new stores were opening, which seems to me to have been a way of showing the Wal-Street crowd that the company was "serious" about growing.

And that is what Wal-Street is constantly demanding-- growth, profits and dividends. While Sam was still around, there was still a lot of "frontier" for Wal-Mart to enter, but toward the end of his life, Wal-Mart was reaching saturation in a lot of markets, making it difficult to appease Wal-Street's constant demands for growth, profits, and dividends. When simple growth becomes more and more difficult, then growth (profit) and dividends have to be made in other ways-- including keeping a lid on employee wages, and finding cheaper sources for goods. Sam was already doing that by the late '80s. It wasn't as obvious then, but what we are seeing now was probably inevitable.

[Hekate]

101. I dunno. Did FDR ever make a mistake? Like, was he a mortal man with feet of clay?

[Octafish]

132. Feet of clay is one thing. Integrity is another.

''We came. We saw. He died.''



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2051826/We-came-saw-died-What-Hillary-Clinton-told-news-reporter-moments-hearing-Gaddafis-death.html

Hah. Hah. It is to laugh.

[Beacool]

115. She didn't work "for" Wal-Mart.

She sat on the board of directors. She was the only woman on the board. She pushed for a greener company and for the advancement of women to managerial posts. Sam Walton was still running the company at the time and Hillary was a young attorney. The board met 4 times a year and was composed of all white men. I don't know how much influence she could have had with them.

This Wal-Mart B.S. is exactly that, B.S.

[Octafish]

134. No BS at all: Hers was a paid position on the board.

As for what has transpired in the years since then:

Report: Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public Assistance

Clare O'Connor
Forbes, April 15, 2014

Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published to coincide with Tax Day, April 15.

Americans for Tax Fairness, a coalition of 400 national and state-level progressive groups, made this estimate using data from a 2013 study by Democratic Staff of the U.S. Committee on Education and the Workforce.

“The study estimated the cost to Wisconsin’s taxpayers of Walmart’s low wages and benefits, which often force workers to rely on various public assistance programs,” reads the report, available in full here.

“It found that a single Walmart Supercenter cost taxpayers between $904,542 and $1.75 million per year, or between $3,015 and $5,815 on average for each of 300 workers.”

Americans for Tax Fairness then took the mid-point of that range ($4,415) and multiplied it by Walmart’s approximately 1.4 million workers to come up with an estimate of the overall taxpayers’ bill for the Bentonville, Ark.-based big box giant’s staffers.

CONTINUED...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/

I know, it's Forbes. The mag's publisher actually likes Walmart and uses it as an example of a capitalism success story. For the workers and US taxpayers? Not so much.

[Beacool]

138. I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart's,

I'm just opposed to the demonization of Hillary for serving on their board in the late 80s. She was the token woman and younger than most of the other members. How much influence could she really have had with that bunch? She did what she could while she was there to advance two causes that she cared about: women and the environment.

This constant harping about her and Wal-Mart is silly.

[closeupready]

4. OMG. That comparison is downright offensive.

I take it, Valerie was famous mostly for her looks, less than her brains...?

[JoePhilly]

6. Or for being a spy outed by Cheney and his assistants.

I'm going to enjoy watching the anti-Hillary folks suffer over this.

[hlthe2b]

9. what an incredibly ugly attack on Plame. She was an expert on nuclear counter-proliferation,

with Iran part of her portfolio. You, of course have an equally impressive resume'? (NOT)

[closeupready]

10. FDR created the New Deal; the Clintons have cooperated in dismantling it.

What more really needs to be said.

I like and agree with Valerie Plame on almost every other thing she ever said. I was being a little hyperbolic in my critique; with all due respect, get over it.

[JI7]

14. nope, because it's dismissive of females and something many women deal with, just yesterday

someone made a thread attacking Elizabeth Warren on her looks and how she should try to be more feminine and attractive and how hillary was better than her.

especially because her husband is the one that usually does tv and media appearance and Plame actually is uncomfortable being in the spotlight.

[closeupready]

16. Nope. Greenwald was right?

Not going to get pulled into a side discussion.

Plame is wrong. Beautiful, yes, wrong, yes. Moving on.

[JI7]

17. you dismissed her based on her looks, why mention her looks at all ? she can be intelligent and

wrong also. do you think Hillary Clinton is not intelligent ? just because you disagree with her ?

you are the one that started the side discussion with comments on her looks and implying things.

[Iggo]

59. Ha!

[hlthe2b]

18. That is not at issue. You can disagree with Plame's comparison without the vicious attack on Plame

It is ugly and beneath a Duer to resort to those kind of tactics. Shame on you.

[hrmjustin]

19. that is not fair. So because she disagrees with you on Hillary you imply she is dumb?

[closeupready]

25. If she honestly believes Hillary is like FDR, yes, she is not very bright.

IMO.

[hrmjustin]

26. Sorry but she was a highly intelligent agent of the CIA.

She is plenty smart. Imo!

I personally don't think that any politician today can be compared to him. He was one of a kind.

[winter is coming]

27. She wouldn't be the first person I've ever met who was well-qualified in their area

of expertise, yet surprising inept in other arenas.

[hrmjustin]

29. Well thats certainly true.

[closeupready]

31. Okay, I have no reason to second guess that she is intelligent, but

I would ask, in return, what is her motivation for comparing her to FDR? I see few, if any, parallels.

He, of course, was the most popular president in US history. So he was definitely one of a kind, and deeply liberal in an age when liberal ideas were not.

She, on the other hand, is conservative in an age when liberalism is ascendent.

[hrmjustin]

34. I agree he is one of a kind. I like Hillary but I respect your opinion.

[closeupready]

35. Okay, me, too. Peace.

[hrmjustin]

45. Peace.

[babylonsister]

82. Maybe that's just her opinion-what's wrong with that? We all have them. nt

[closeupready]

87. My opinion is her opinion is idiotic. Is there s.th. wrong with THAT?

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. Perhaps she is not the one with the "illumination" problem...

Hillary Clinton is a Populist-Leaning Liberal.
http://www.ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

[bananas]

129. That's a fucked-up chart, the opposite of Libertarian isn't Populist

Here's a better chart - from the same website:

http://www.ontheissues.org/VoteMatch/candidate_map.asp?a1=1&a2=1&a3=1&a4=3&a8=1&a9=5&a10=5&a5=5&a6=4&a7=5&a14=1&a15=2&a16=4&a19=4&a17=3&a18=1&a20=2&a11=1&a12=4&a13=1&i1=1&i2=1&i3=1&i4=1&p=73&e=13&t=16

[VanillaRhapsody]

140. No matter how you slice it....still not Republican! or even Moderate...

[bananas]

146. On the contrary, she's a right-wing authoritarian, here are more accurate charts

From 2008:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008


From 2012 - Obama's positions have changed:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012

[VanillaRhapsody]

147. and where are ALL her speeches and votes to support this bullshit contention as MY graph has? hmmm??

Mine HAS supportive evidence...YOURS is JUST someone's opinion....sorry EPIC fail!

[msanthrope]

23. Excuse me? That is some sexist shit, right there. nt

[closeupready]

24. lol

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. An NOC Undercover officer only famous for their looks...

that statement is offensive and sexist!

[Beacool]

37. That's a sexist comment.

Although by your response to other posters, you don't want to own up to it.

[closeupready]

63. It's not sexist, but I'm not going to argue with anyone here about that.

nt

[Hekate]

104. You display an astonishing ignorance regarding Valerie Plame's resume....

It's not only downright offensive on your part, but chilling to find at DU.

[closeupready]

136. ...

[joshcryer]

114. When you see her platform you'll call her a liar.

When she gets elected you'll call her a corporate lacky.

When she does what she promises in her platform you'll forget you ever said the crap you did.

[closeupready]

135. All I can say is I sure hope so. I'll support her if she wins the nomination,

not like she's waiting with bated breath for closeupready's endorsement, lol.

Cheers.

[greatlaurel]

141. That sounds like something Rove would say.

[Whisp]

5. loleresting to me.

I understand they owe Hillary and the Clintons a lot and of course they will repay her/them with loyalty.

But try to stay in the realm of the realistic, Val! lol

[Dawson Leery]

7. k/r

[frazzled]

8. Question regarding terminology

Back during the Bush era, when we were rooting for Valerie Plame against Cheney and Co., we called her a "CIA Operations Officer." We were also into the whole NOC terminology (non-official cover).

Now we call her a "spy"? I suppose it's true, and a non-official cover or operations officer is a essentially a spy. That said, the effect--the implicature or the underlying presumption--is very different. When we're using her to fight the Bush administration she has a high-toned, official, almost patriotic moniker. When she's supporting Hillary Clinton she's a spy—someone who lurks in the shadows and is not to be trusted.

I've noted this new "spying" terminology in other contexts as well, and am just curious about the various usages.

[Bandit]

13. In the terminolgy used by the Head of the CIA under Oath, she was a "Covert Agent"

Whatever that means to you.

[frazzled]

15. It means nothing to me beyond ...

what I queried before. When we are on her side (or at least against those who are against her) she has a title; when we're displeased she's a spy.

Our use of language is not hard to read. I'm just interested, in a kind of bemused way, to track it. Framing, after all, is everything.

[bananas]

128. Dumbass conservatives were claiming she was a "glorified secretary"

so the official title was used to show that the dumbass conservatives were full of shit.
Now that there's no longer a controversy about it, there's no reason not to use the more common term "spy".
I don't think most people are going to read a negative connotation into it.

[Thinkingabout]

11. K & R

Good information, I have been a fan of Joe Wilson since he published the real truth about the lack of supplies to produce WMD's in Iraq, to prove Bush was lying about the WMD'sbefore the invasion of Iraq. After the outing of Valerie Plame by the Bush administration simply because her husband told the truth should have resulted in continued investigation of the Bush administration. Happy to know they are on board with the Democrats.

[Beacool]

12. Oops, under the bus with Valerie.

[1000words]

20. Of course she is! ... The same way Obama is a "progressive."

doubleplusgood!

[VanillaRhapsody]

39. He is....

Barack Obama is a Moderate Liberal.
http://www.ontheissues.org/barack_obama.htm

I double your doublplusgood!

[BlueCaliDem]

42. LOL VanRhap. You're gonna make the anti-Hillary crowd wince and weep with your facts.

Thanks for the info!

x1000

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Comparing Hillary to FDR is kinda like comparing a stale Twinkie to 10 course banquet.

Too many years of working for "the Company" I suppose.

[VanillaRhapsody]

40. In what way are they similar?

Hillary Clinton is a Populist-Leaning Liberal.
http://www.ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

How is the "crow" tonight? Is it prepared to your liking?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. She's a war mongering, money grubbing, corporatist, populist liberal.

[VanillaRhapsody]

74. No she isn't....

Read the site...

On War and Peace...

Supported decision to target Osama bin Laden. (Sep 2013)
Obama rejected her 2012 plan to arm the Syrian rebels. (Aug 2013)
OpEd: Iraq war follows tradition of active US leadership. (Jun 2012)
Clinton-Gates combo won push for Afghan surge. (Jun 2012)
OpEd: 2003 Iraq vote unmistakably authorized war. (Nov 2010)
War authorization vote made primary harder than general. (Jan 2010)
2007: Avoided war apology to avoid "flip-flopper" label. (Jan 2010)
Massive retaliation from US if Iran attacks Israel. (Apr 2008)
Calling for troop withdrawal pressures Iraqi government. (Feb 2008)
Some tactical success in Iraq, but no strategic success yet. (Feb 2008)
Would have never diverted attention from Afghanistan. (Jan 2008)
After 9/11:Those helping terrorists would feel “wrath” of US. (Jun 2007)
1960s conversion to liberalism based on opposing Vietnam. (Jun 2007)
At Wellesley in ‘68, steered anti-war movement within system. (Jun 2007)
I have seen firsthand terrorists’ terrible damage. (Jun 2007)
Supports border security fence in Israel. (Oct 2006)
Ok to target Al Qaeda in Pakistan; we did that 10 years ago. (Jan 2006)
2002 Iraq speech criticized both Saddam and U.N. (Feb 2004)
Cut off US aid if Palestine declares a state unilaterally. (Oct 2000)
Focuses on increasing relationship between US and Israel. (Oct 2000)
Support Israel in finding a safe and secure peace. (May 2000)
Extend peace treaties to Palestinians, Syrians & Lebanese. (Nov 1999)
Strategizing about Pakistan destabilizes a nuclear power. (Aug 2007)
Iran

Policy of prevention, not containment, on Iranian nukes. (Jan 2013)
Trust but verify Iran: goal is diplomacy & open inspections. (Jan 2013)
Continue diplomatic engagement with Iran. (Dec 2007)
Believed, with others, that Iran was pursuing nuclear weapon. (Dec 2007)
Pledge that Iran will not develop a nuclear bomb. (Oct 2007)
Rushing to war with Iran vs. doing nothing is a false choice. (Oct 2007)
Iran’s Revolutionary Guard promotes terrorism. (Sep 2007)
Prevent Iran from becoming nuclear power by diplomacy first. (Sep 2007)
Rule out nukes against Iran. (Aug 2007)
Iran having a nuclear weapon is absolutely unacceptable. (Jun 2007)
Iraq War

2007: I'm most qualified to end war in Iraq. (Jan 2010)
2007: Opposed funding Iraq War; no escalation. (Aug 2009)
2002: Saddam gave aid to Al Qaeda terrorists. (Oct 2008)
Up to the Iraqis to decide the future they will have. (Feb 2008)
Leaving 130,000 troops in Iraq is irresponsible abdication. (Jan 2008)
Have nearly all combat troops out in a year. (Jan 2008)
Can’t leave Iraq safely without a plan. (Jan 2008)
Can’t let the Iraqis think the US will be there forever. (Jan 2008)
Voted against precedent of US subordinate to UN in Iraq. (Jan 2008)
Iraq war authorization was not authority for preemption. (Jan 2008)
Told by the White House how the war resolution would be used. (Jan 2008)
Withdrawing troops is dangerous, including 100,000 civilians. (Jan 2008)
No military solution in Iraq; this debate motivates solution. (Jan 2008)
Called war on terror “Bush’s war” but has played active role. (Nov 2007)
2002: Accepted connection between Saddam & Al Qaeda. (Nov 2007)
Leave combat troops in Iraq only for conterterrorism. (Sep 2007)
No funding that does not move us toward withdrawal. (Sep 2007)
Push Pentagon to start planning for Iraq withdrawal. (Aug 2007)
Redeploy responsibly, with regional diplomatic effort. (Aug 2007)
Pentagon calls her unpatriotic for asking about exit plan. (Jul 2007)
Deauthorize Iraq war, and don’t grant new war authority. (Jun 2007)
Phased redeployment, not irresponsible immediate withdrawal. (Jun 2007)
Bush misused authorization for war. (Jun 2007)
The Iraq war is Bush’s war. (Jun 2007)
Iraq war wouldn’t have happened had the inspectors been sent. (Jun 2007)
It was a mistake to trust Bush on his judgment to wage war. (Jun 2007)
This war is up to Iraqi people to win or lose, not the US. (Apr 2007)
No permanent bases, but continuing residual force in Iraq. (Apr 2007)
Online petition to pressure Bush & GOP for redeployment. (Apr 2007)
Takes responsibility for Iraq war vote, but not a mistake. (Feb 2007)
Cap troops in Iraq and no more blank check for war. (Feb 2007)
Cut off funds for Iraqi use, but not for troops. (Jan 2007)
Phased redeployment out of Iraq, beginning immediately. (Oct 2006)
OpEd: Voting for war enabled criticizing how it was waged. (Oct 2005)
2002: Attacking Iraq "not a good option" but authorized it. (Feb 2004)
Voting Record

Iraq war vote was meant to be used as coercive diplomacy. (Jan 2008)
Voted against Levin Amendment: it gave UN veto over US. (Jan 2008)
Voted for Iraq war based on available info; now would not. (Apr 2007)
Critic of Iraq war, but won’t recant 2002 vote in its favor. (Nov 2006)
Regrets Bush’s handling of war, but not her war vote. (Oct 2006)
Voted YES on designating Iran's Revolutionary Guards as terrorists. (Sep 2007)
Voted YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq by March 2008. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on investigating contract awards in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Nov 2005)
Voted YES on requiring on-budget funding for Iraq, not emergency funding. (Apr 2005)
Voted YES on $86 billion for military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Oct 2003)
Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq. (Oct 2002)
Condemns anti-Muslim bigotry in name of anti-terrorism. (Oct 2001)
No troop surge: no military escalation in Iraq. (Jan 2007)
Deploy UN multinational peacekeeping force in Darfur. (Jul 2007)
Require Congress' approval before military action in Iran. (Oct 2007)


and you have NOT one fact to verify your position......I just gave 84 to support mine....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

99. A lot of your facts verify my position.

Supported decision to target Osama bin Laden. (Sep 2013)
Obama rejected her 2012 plan to arm the Syrian rebels. (Aug 2013)
OpEd: Iraq war follows tradition of active US leadership. (Jun 2012)
Clinton-Gates combo won push for Afghan surge. (Jun 2012)
OpEd: 2003 Iraq vote unmistakably authorized war. (Nov 2010)
War authorization vote made primary harder than general. (Jan 2010)
2007: Avoided war apology to avoid "flip-flopper" label. (Jan 2010)
Massive retaliation from US if Iran attacks Israel. (Apr 2008)
Some tactical success in Iraq, but no strategic success yet. (Feb 2008)
Would have never diverted attention from Afghanistan. (Jan 2008)
After 9/11:Those helping terrorists would feel “wrath” of US. (Jun 2007)
I have seen firsthand terrorists’ terrible damage. (Jun 2007)
Supports border security fence in Israel. (Oct 2006)
Ok to target Al Qaeda in Pakistan; we did that 10 years ago. (Jan 2006)
2002 Iraq speech criticized both Saddam and U.N. (Feb 2004)
Cut off US aid if Palestine declares a state unilaterally. (Oct 2000)
Focuses on increasing relationship between US and Israel. (Oct 2000)
Strategizing about Pakistan destabilizes a nuclear power. (Aug 2007)
Iran

Policy of prevention, not containment, on Iranian nukes. (Jan 2013)
Trust but verify Iran: goal is diplomacy & open inspections. (Jan 2013)
2002: Saddam gave aid to Al Qaeda terrorists. (Oct 2008)
Up to the Iraqis to decide the future they will have. (Feb 2008)
Leaving 130,000 troops in Iraq is irresponsible abdication. (Jan 2008)
Can’t leave Iraq safely without a plan. (Jan 2008)
Can’t let the Iraqis think the US will be there forever. (Jan 2008)
Voted against precedent of US subordinate to UN in Iraq. (Jan 2008)
Iraq war authorization was not authority for preemption. (Jan 2008)
Told by the White House how the war resolution would be used. (Jan 2008)
Withdrawing troops is dangerous, including 100,000 civilians. (Jan 2008)
No military solution in Iraq; this debate motivates solution. (Jan 2008)
Called war on terror “Bush’s war” but has played active role. (Nov 2007)
2002: Accepted connection between Saddam & Al Qaeda. (Nov 2007)
Leave combat troops in Iraq only for conterterrorism. (Sep 2007)
Bush misused authorization for war. (Jun 2007)
The Iraq war is Bush’s war. (Jun 2007)
Iraq war wouldn’t have happened had the inspectors been sent. (Jun 2007)
It was a mistake to trust Bush on his judgment to wage war. (Jun 2007)
No permanent bases, but continuing residual force in Iraq. (Apr 2007)
Online petition to pressure Bush & GOP for redeployment. (Apr 2007)
Takes responsibility for Iraq war vote, but not a mistake. (Feb 2007)
Cut off funds for Iraqi use, but not for troops. (Jan 2007)
Phased redeployment out of Iraq, beginning immediately. (Oct 2006)
OpEd: Voting for war enabled criticizing how it was waged. (Oct 2005)
2002: Attacking Iraq "not a good option" but authorized it. (Feb 2004)
Voting Record
Iraq war vote was meant to be used as coercive diplomacy. (Jan 2008)
Voted against Levin Amendment: it gave UN veto over US. (Jan 2008)
Voted for Iraq war based on available info; now would not. (Apr 2007)
Critic of Iraq war, but won’t recant 2002 vote in its favor. (Nov 2006)
Regrets Bush’s handling of war, but not her war vote. (Oct 2006)
Voted YES on designating Iran's Revolutionary Guards as terrorists. (Sep 2007)
Voted YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq by March 2008. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on investigating contract awards in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Nov 2005)
Voted YES on requiring on-budget funding for Iraq, not emergency funding. (Apr 2005)
Voted YES on $86 billion for military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Oct 2003)
Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq. (Oct 2002)

Yep. She's a real peacenik... except for the above.

Loved the CYA statements blaming Bush for her vote.

[VanillaRhapsody]

75. Here she is on Trade....

Have a trade prosecutor to enforce the trade agreements. (Feb 2008)
AdWatch: Supported NAFTA in 1998; opposed CAFTA since 2005. (Jan 2008)
Criticized trade pacts for weak labor standards. (Nov 2007)
FactCheck: for NAFTA while First Lady; now against CAFTA. (Oct 2007)
Export from big agribusiness, but also from small farmers. (Aug 2007)
Smart, pro-American trade: NAFTA has hurt workers. (Aug 2007)
No fast-track authority for this president. (Aug 2007)
Better approach: real trade adjustment assistance. (Aug 2007)
End tax breaks for outsourcing jobs. (Jun 2007)
Defended outsourcing of US jobs to India. (Oct 2005)
Globalization should not substitute for humanization. (Jun 1999)
Supports MFN for China, despite concerns over human rights. (Oct 2000)
Voting Record

Though Bill supported it, Hillary opposed NAFTA. (Oct 2007)
Voted against CAFTA despite Bill Clinton’s pushing NAFTA. (Oct 2005)
Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)
Voted YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore. (Jul 2003)
Voted YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile. (Jul 2003)
Voted NO on extending free trade to Andean nations. (May 2002)
Voted YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam. (Oct 2001)
Voted YES on removing common goods from national security export rules. (Sep 2001)
Build a rule-based global trading system. (Aug 2000)
Rated 17% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record. (Dec 2002)
Extend trade restrictions on Burma to promote democracy. (Jun 2007)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. Did she mention all that during her $400,000 gig for Goldman Sachs?

[VanillaRhapsody]

88. Does that negate everything else she has ever done?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

98. It just shows she's a politician in bed with the corporations.

Not to mention it's a nice payoff from her buddies at GS.

[VanillaRhapsody]

105. No it doesn't....

Is she still working for Goldman Sachs? Does she have anything else to hang her hat on? What does the bulk of evidence suggest? Certainly not what YOU are saying.


And you are still just as dishonest...

Hillary Clinton's record on Corporations

Take back $55B in Bush’s industry give-aways. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Pushed Wal-Mart for women managers & environment. (Jan 2008)
World Bank should impose rules on sovereign wealth funds. (Jan 2008)
Bush defanged the Consumer Product Safety Commission. (Dec 2007)
FactCheck: Yes, Bush shrunk CPSC; but it shrank before Bush. (Dec 2007)
Outraged at CEO compensation. (Oct 2007)
Stop bankruptcies to get rid of pension responsibilities. (Aug 2007)
Enough with corporate welfare; enough with golden parachutes. (Jun 2007)
Close lobbyists’ revolving door; end no-bid contracts. (Jun 2007)
1976 Rose Law: Fought for industry against electric rate cut. (Jun 2007)
Corporate lawyer at Rose Law while Bill was Attorney General. (Jun 2007)
Corporate elite treat working-class America as invisible. (Apr 2007)
Companies get rewarded with hard-working people left hanging. (Mar 2007)
1980s: Loved Wal-Mart's "Buy America" program. (Jun 2004)
1970s: Potential conflict of interest when GM sued Arkansas. (Nov 1997)
Businesses play social role in US; gov’t oversight required. (Sep 1996)
Family-friendly work policies are good for business. (Sep 1996)
Angry at unacceptable acquiescence to greed in the 1980s. (Jun 1994)
Serving on boards provides ties but requires defending too. (Aug 1993)
Voted YES on repealing tax subsidy for companies which move US jobs offshore. (Mar 2005)
Voted YES on restricting rules on personal bankruptcy. (Jul 2001)
Rated 35% by the US COC, indicating a mixed business voting record. (Dec 2003)
1
(Yeah sounds like a true "corporatist" alright!)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

108. She accepts payoffs from corporations. How does that fit in with the above?

I'll take "What is playing both sides for profit" Alec.

[VanillaRhapsody]

110. and who are you going to vote for that won't?

Sorry....unless you come up with a way to get elected on the cheap.....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

111. I'm against money in politics. Are you?

I'll be voting for the most progressive, anti-war, candidate on the ballot. You?

[VanillaRhapsody]

112. I will be voting for whomever wins the Democratic primary....You?

Money IS in politics and that IS the reality....and will be the reality for whomever runs in 2016...

I am a realist not an idealist!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

118. I already said who I'll be voting for.

So the "reality" is that you'll be voting for money in politics and the corporations who pay the politicians.

Congratulations on being a "realist".

And, being a cynic about politics and greedy politicians hardly qualifies me as an "idealist".

[VanillaRhapsody]

119. I will be voting for the Democrat....because I am a Democrat...You?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

121. I'll be voting for the most progressive, anti-war, candidate on the ballot.

And, I've been, and remain, a Democrat since 1965. You?

These guys were Democrats, too.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[VanillaRhapsody]

122. I have always voted for the most Liberal Dem candidate..that is why I voted for Hillary Clinton

versus Barack Obama in the primaries. But when he won.....I was fully invested as always.

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. And for the icing on the cake...on Corporations...

Take back $55B in Bush’s industry give-aways. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Pushed Wal-Mart for women managers & environment. (Jan 2008)
World Bank should impose rules on sovereign wealth funds. (Jan 2008)
Bush defanged the Consumer Product Safety Commission. (Dec 2007)
FactCheck: Yes, Bush shrunk CPSC; but it shrank before Bush. (Dec 2007)
Outraged at CEO compensation. (Oct 2007)
Stop bankruptcies to get rid of pension responsibilities. (Aug 2007)
Enough with corporate welfare; enough with golden parachutes. (Jun 2007)
Close lobbyists’ revolving door; end no-bid contracts. (Jun 2007)
1976 Rose Law: Fought for industry against electric rate cut. (Jun 2007)
Corporate lawyer at Rose Law while Bill was Attorney General. (Jun 2007)
Corporate elite treat working-class America as invisible. (Apr 2007)
Companies get rewarded with hard-working people left hanging. (Mar 2007)
1980s: Loved Wal-Mart's "Buy America" program. (Jun 2004)
1970s: Potential conflict of interest when GM sued Arkansas. (Nov 1997)
Businesses play social role in US; gov’t oversight required. (Sep 1996)
Family-friendly work policies are good for business. (Sep 1996)
Angry at unacceptable acquiescence to greed in the 1980s. (Jun 1994)
Serving on boards provides ties but requires defending too. (Aug 1993)
Voted YES on repealing tax subsidy for companies which move US jobs offshore. (Mar 2005)
Voted YES on restricting rules on personal bankruptcy. (Jul 2001)
Rated 35% by the US COC, indicating a mixed business voting record. (Dec 2003)

And you are as dishonest and disingenuous as the day is long...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

100. You left out the part about the $400,000 gig with Goldman Sachs.

Not to mention:

Top Contributors

This table lists the top donors to this candidate in the 2008 election cycle. The organizations themselves did not donate , rather the money came from the organizations' PACs, their individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.

Because of contribution limits, organizations that bundle together many individual contributions are often among the top donors to presidential candidates. These contributions can come from the organization's members or employees (and their families). The organization may support one candidate, or hedge its bets by supporting multiple candidates. Groups with national networks of donors - like EMILY's List and Club for Growth - make for particularly big bundlers.
EMILY's List $541,239
DLA Piper $496,700
JPMorgan Chase & Co $446,479
Goldman Sachs $407,850
Citigroup Inc $401,217
Morgan Stanley $374,830
University of California $273,756
Lehman Brothers $253,753
Skadden, Arps et al $220,310
National Amusements Inc $219,304
Merrill Lynch $194,109
21st Century Fox $193,500
Greenberg Traurig LLP $192,800
PricewaterhouseCoopers $191,900
Microsoft Corp $184,119
Time Warner $177,956
Kirkland & Ellis $177,741
Ernst & Young $161,150
General Electric $157,621
Cablevision Systems $154,063
Percent of Contributions Coded How to read this chart
legend Coded $97,581,918 (77%)
legend Uncoded $28,746,470 (23%)
Total $126,328,388

Of course, we all know that politicians like Hillary never enter into quid pro quo arrangements with corporate contributors.

[VanillaRhapsody]

102. aaaaaaannnnnddddd you think a President Elizabeth Warren or President Bernie Sanders

will not accept corporate campaign contributions?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

106. I don't know. Do you?

But, the contributions Hillary has taken speaks volumes about her supposed anti-corporate stance.

[VanillaRhapsody]

107. Really now?

Take back $55B in Bush’s industry give-aways. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Pushed Wal-Mart for women managers & environment. (Jan 2008)
World Bank should impose rules on sovereign wealth funds. (Jan 2008)
Bush defanged the Consumer Product Safety Commission. (Dec 2007)
FactCheck: Yes, Bush shrunk CPSC; but it shrank before Bush. (Dec 2007)
Outraged at CEO compensation. (Oct 2007)
Stop bankruptcies to get rid of pension responsibilities. (Aug 2007)
Enough with corporate welfare; enough with golden parachutes. (Jun 2007)
Close lobbyists’ revolving door; end no-bid contracts. (Jun 2007)
1976 Rose Law: Fought for industry against electric rate cut. (Jun 2007)
Corporate lawyer at Rose Law while Bill was Attorney General. (Jun 2007)
Corporate elite treat working-class America as invisible. (Apr 2007)
Companies get rewarded with hard-working people left hanging. (Mar 2007)
1980s: Loved Wal-Mart's "Buy America" program. (Jun 2004)
1970s: Potential conflict of interest when GM sued Arkansas. (Nov 1997)
Businesses play social role in US; gov’t oversight required. (Sep 1996)
Family-friendly work policies are good for business. (Sep 1996)
Angry at unacceptable acquiescence to greed in the 1980s. (Jun 1994)
Serving on boards provides ties but requires defending too. (Aug 1993)
Voted YES on repealing tax subsidy for companies which move US jobs offshore. (Mar 2005)
Voted YES on restricting rules on personal bankruptcy. (Jul 2001)
Rated 35% by the US COC, indicating a mixed business voting record. (Dec 2003)

You were saying??

[VanillaRhapsody]

109. and furthermore...

Get tough with energy speculators and with OPEC cartel. (May 2008)
Gas tax holiday, paid for by windfall oil tax. (May 2008)
GovWatch: Gas tax holiday saves $8B; but that’s 64 cents/day. (May 2008)
Investigate gas price manipulation; add windfall profits tax. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Yes, FTC is investigating gas price manipulation. (Apr 2008)
Cap-and-trade as president; compact fluorescents at home. (Apr 2008)
$650 for help with energy bills to those who can’t afford it. (Jan 2008)
FactCheck: Oil & gas giveaways stripped from final 2005 Bill. (Jan 2008)
Investigate & move toward energy efficiency and conservation. (Oct 2007)
Opposes Yucca Mountain; earthquake fault goes under it. (Sep 2007)
Led delegation, with McCain, to see effects of polar warming. (Sep 2007)
Invest in alternative energy; jobs that won’t be outsourced. (Aug 2007)
End Big Oil tax break; $50 billion for strategic energy fund. (Jul 2007)
Agnostic about nuclear power until waste & cost issue solved. (Jul 2007)
FactCheck: There was no Big Oil tax break under Bush-Cheney. (Jul 2007)
Energy Independence 2020: $50B for Strategic Energy Fund. (Jun 2007)
Extensive funding into alternative energy. (Jun 2007)
Will make big oil fund alternative energy research. (Feb 2007)
$50B strategic energy fund from taxing oil companies. (Oct 2006)
Remove energy dependence on countries who would harm us. (Jun 2006)
Need to move toward energy efficiency and conservation. (Jan 2006)
Supports oil reserve release & fund conservation. (Oct 2000)
Voting Record

Ratify Kyoto; more mass transit. (Sep 2000)
Voted YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on making oil-producing and exporting cartels illegal. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning. (May 2007)
Voted YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR. (Nov 2005)
Voted YES on $3.1B for emergency oil assistance for hurricane-hit areas. (Oct 2005)
Voted YES on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%). (Jun 2005)
Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 2003)
Voted YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill. (Mar 2003)
Voted NO on drilling ANWR on national security grounds. (Apr 2002)
Voted NO on terminating CAFE standards within 15 months. (Mar 2002)
Supports tradable emissions permits for greenhouse gases. (Aug 2000)
Keep efficient air conditioner rule to conserve energy. (Mar 2004)
Establish greenhouse gas tradeable allowances. (Feb 2005)
Require public notification when nuclear releases occur. (Mar 2006)
Rated 100% by the CAF, indicating support for energy independence. (Dec 2006)
Designate sensitive ANWR area as protected wilderness. (Nov 2007)
Set goal of 25% renewable energy by 2025. (Jan 2007)
Let states define stricter-than-federal emission standards. (Jan 2008)
Gas tax holiday for the summer. (Apr 2008)

[randys1]

36. Valerie and her husband are actual heroes, patriots, shit most of us know nothing

about...

Hillary Clinton is a middle of the road, right leaning, Democratic Politician who is not nearly liberal enough for me, but the rightwing alternative is unthinkable.

We need to understand that even if we had a true liberal running, like Warren, they cant win the presidential election without a

B I L L I O N D O L L A R S

and unless you know a liberal billionaire willing to pay for the campaign, we will get what Wall street is willing to let us choose from

And I want a Woman President too, a non rightwing Woman president and Hillary is the option I am being given, so be it...

[VanillaRhapsody]

41. No she isnt "Middle of the road"

Hillary Clinton is a Populist-Leaning Liberal.
http://www.ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

Don't fall for the Republican Hype man.....

Now her husband Bill....totally middle of the road:

Bill Clinton is a Moderate Liberal.
http://www.ontheissues.org/bill_clinton.htm

[randys1]

43. Would love to believe that, for me she would have to raise top tax rates back to Nixon days, for one

and many other things for me to consider her an actual liberal or populist.


I think your and the graphs definition of liberal and populist are not at all what they would have been 40 yrs ago...

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. Its true read the site...her speeches and voting record is right there....

she IS a Populist Liberal...don't let the "griefers" influence you....


This graph is NOT using 40 yr old speeches....
Here is Bill Clinton's graph for comparison...


Bill Clinton is a Moderate Liberal.
http://www.ontheissues.org/bill_clinton.htm

Hillary is no Bill Clinton...

As I said....read the site don't take my word for it...

[randys1]

47. Again, to me a liberal would raise tax rates, probably do some protectionism with trade, etc

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. You can't go by what just YOU think.....its not like that...

You are falling for the hype...

Have a trade prosecutor to enforce the trade agreements. (Feb 2008)
AdWatch: Supported NAFTA in 1998; opposed CAFTA since 2005. (Jan 2008)
Criticized trade pacts for weak labor standards. (Nov 2007)
FactCheck: for NAFTA while First Lady; now against CAFTA. (Oct 2007)
Export from big agribusiness, but also from small farmers. (Aug 2007)
Smart, pro-American trade: NAFTA has hurt workers. (Aug 2007)
No fast-track authority for this president. (Aug 2007)
Better approach: real trade adjustment assistance. (Aug 2007)
End tax breaks for outsourcing jobs. (Jun 2007)
Defended outsourcing of US jobs to India. (Oct 2005)
Globalization should not substitute for humanization. (Jun 1999)
Supports MFN for China, despite concerns over human rights. (Oct 2000)
Voting Record

Though Bill supported it, Hillary opposed NAFTA. (Oct 2007)
Voted against CAFTA despite Bill Clinton’s pushing NAFTA. (Oct 2005)
Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)
Voted YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore. (Jul 2003)
Voted YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile. (Jul 2003)
Voted NO on extending free trade to Andean nations. (May 2002)
Voted YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam. (Oct 2001)
Voted YES on removing common goods from national security export rules. (Sep 2001)
Build a rule-based global trading system. (Aug 2000)
Rated 17% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record. (Dec 2002)
Extend trade restrictions on Burma to promote democracy. (Jun 2007)

[randys1]

51. OK, you win...I will work for her campaign regardless, but until you raise taxes

[VanillaRhapsody]

52. I know you will.....I read your posts...

Hillary is the victim of a smear campaign that continues right here on Democratic Underground...

they really do fear her...

[randys1]

53. Is she for a single payer health care? a true Universal system?

[BlueCaliDem]

56. That's already in the PPACA. No need for Hillary to restart a Teabagger fight for something that

already is.

The State Innovation Medicaid Waiver section of the ACA provides States the option to have single-payer - and the Federal Gov't will fund the largest part of the costs of implementation (it's crazy expensive to install and that's the reason why States have, heretofore, decided against implementation).

State innovation waivers. One of the two final regulations implements section 1332 of the ACA, which permits states to apply to HHS and to the Department of the Treasury for “innovation waivers” to implement state-specific health reform approaches that vary from certain ACA requirements. The specific provisions of the ACA that can be waived include the provisions relating to qualified health plans (including the essential health benefits package), the exchanges, premium tax credits, cost-sharing reduction payments, the minimum coverage requirement (individual mandate), and the employer responsibility requirements. If a state is granted a waiver, the state can fund its reforms through the aggregate amount of federal funding that otherwise would have been paid out within the state for premium tax credits, cost-reduction payments, and small business tax credits.
To qualify for an innovation waiver, the state must establish that its reform plan would provide coverage that:

Is at least as comprehensive as ACA coverage,
Is at least as affordable as ACA coverage,
Covers at least as many residents as the ACA would have covered, and
Will not increase the federal deficit.

Single-payer will do all of that and then some (although many young people will not like single-payer since they'll be paying the same as older people who need health services more than they).

This is what Vermont is using in order to implement their single-payer system beginning 2016. It appears that in order for Americans to get a single-payer system set up, they'll have to do it via their States - much like legalizing MJ and full civil rights for the LGBT communities.

Thank you, President Obama!

[VanillaRhapsody]

50. and...on Govt Reform...

Voter suppression revives old demons of discrimination. (Aug 2013)
Fight obstacles to voting disguised as election fraud claims. (Aug 2013)
FactCheck: Yes, more legislation & sponsorships than Obama. (Apr 2008)
Get D.C. full voting rights, plus more direct federal funds. (Feb 2008)
It took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush. (Jan 2008)
Stand for public financing and getting money out of politics. (Jan 2008)
Transparent government includes federal agency blogs. (Jan 2008)
Never abuse the purpose of signing statements. (Dec 2007)
Change system from the inside, not from the outside. (Nov 2007)
HILL-PAC is one of politics biggest money-raisers. (Nov 2007)
McCain criticized 26 pork-barrel defense projects by Hillary. (Oct 2007)
Public financing would fix campaign donor problems. (Sep 2007)
Presidents should reveal donations to their foundations. (Sep 2007)
Move to public election financing, not banning lobbyists. (Aug 2007)
End no-bid contracts, end revolving door in government. (Aug 2007)
1978: chaired Legal Services Corp. while at Rose Law Firm. (Jul 2007)
Same-day voter registration; no oppressive ID requirements. (Jul 2007)
Create a public service academy, like military academy. (Jun 2007)
1970s: Worked on 18-year-old voting Amendment. (Jun 2007)
Cut gov’t contractors and end privatization of government. (Feb 2007)
Verified paper ballot for every electronic voting machines. (Nov 2006)
$5M in New York state “pork barrel” bills thru 2004. (Oct 2006)
Right to vote is precious & needs protection. (Sep 2005)
HILLPAC raised $31M through 2002. (Feb 2004)
Only explicit felonies should trigger impeachment. (Feb 2004)
Triangulation replaces partisanship with a dynamic center. (Nov 2003)
Defined appropriate high crimes for impeaching Nixon in 1973. (Nov 2003)
Visited many non-governmental programs on India trip. (Feb 2003)
Whitewater investigation ends; Hillary questions $52M spent. (Sep 2000)
Soft money ban & independent ad ban for Senate campaign. (Feb 2000)
New Democrat: Government is not the solution to all problems. (Feb 2000)
Give big states a big slice of federal pie. (Aug 1999)
We need strong and efficient governments. (Jun 1999)
Government should help people, not support bureaucracy. (Feb 1997)
1973: Researched Nixon's White House tapes. (Aug 1993)
Voting Record

Count Every Vote Act: end voting discrimination by race. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on granting the District of Columbia a seat in Congress. (Sep 2007)
Voted NO on requiring photo ID to vote in federal elections. (Jul 2007)
Voted NO on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress. (Mar 2006)
Voted NO on establishing the Senate Office of Public Integrity. (Mar 2006)
Voted YES on banning "soft money" contributions and restricting issue ads. (Mar 2002)
Voted NO on require photo ID (not just signature) for voter registration. (Feb 2002)
Voted YES on banning campaign donations from unions & corporations. (Apr 2001)
Voluntary public financing for all general elections. (Aug 2000)
Criminalize false or deceptive info about elections. (Nov 2005)
Reject photo ID requirements for voting. (Sep 2005)
Post earmarks on the Internet before voting on them. (Jan 2006)
Establish the United States Public Service Academy. (Mar 2007)
Prohibit voter intimidation in federal elections. (Mar 2007)
Prohibit 'voter caging' which intimidates minority voting. (Nov 2007)

[mcar]

55. Keep fighting the nay sayers VR

Thanks for your fact-based posts.

[BlueCaliDem]

44. HRC is more Liberal than President Obama!

And far more liberal than her husband.

Thanks for this info. It will make it easier for me to stand behind her in every which way I can when she decides to announce her candidacy. Unfortunately, you're not going to convince the Ultra-Liberals on this board no matter how many facts you toss in front of their noses. Much like the Teabaggers, their minds are already made up. *sigh*

[VanillaRhapsody]

48. Yes she is!

And here is Elizabeth Warren....this should make you feel alot better...


Elizabeth Warren is a Hard-Core Liberal.
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Elizabeth_Warren.htm

They are truly not that different and WHY EW is in support of Hillary Clinton...

[oneofthe99]

62. ......

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. Well except for the those FACTS that are used to make those graphs....

Denying her speech and voting record sure is the Twilight Zone though you are right about that....

[greatlaurel]

142. Thank you for posting the facts. Very refreshing and greatly needed.

The only way the GOP can win is to lie, distort and twist the facts. You good work is much appreciated by many more than you know.

[VanillaRhapsody]

144. My pleasure...

[Whisp]

57. she would like to more liberally send bombs to other countries.

in that regard she is definitely more liberal than the President. In most other aspects, not even close.

[McCamy Taylor]

66. Not sure this is true. She voted "yes" for Iraq. He voted yes for "Afghanistan". That makes them

equal. And I think he has used more drones to kill people than she has---but give her a chance and she may catch up. Oh, and he killed Bin Laden. So, I think he has more notches---unless you believe all the right wing stories about Foster.

[ProSense]

68. .

[ProSense]

70. It's a 10

The entertainment value of this thread.

[greatlaurel]

137. Well said

Thanks for the post. I am so tired of the anti Hillary Clinton propaganda, but that is part of their plan to get people so tired of this garbage they will not bother to vote. It seems there are several posters on this site who consistently attack Hillary Clinton in every thread she is mentioned. This seems to me to be a well organized attack following the Dirty Tricks playbook from the Nixon years.

Hillary Clinton, if she chooses to run, will win the Democratic Party's nomination and will have coattails for her fellow Democratic Party candidates. That is why the smear campaign has never stopped since 2008, the GOP and the Koch brothers fear Hillary Clinton.

[7wo7rees]

54. Well, if Valerie and Joe are 4 Hill we

Are paying attention.

[oneofthe99]

60. How absurd

[MFrohike]

64. Looks like nobody read the article

Her comparison of Hillary to FDR is based on the breadth of her experience. She could have as easily chose Richard Nixon on that basis. It's really not that incendiary a comment. Hell, Hillary has more experience in government and policymaking, even in an unofficial role, than FDR did in 1932. The real question about such a comparison is whether she has his willingness to experiment and whether she does not share his destructive obsession with balanced budgets.

[McCamy Taylor]

67. I read it. But a comparison to FDR is always a "parental" one. He was "dad". Meaning Hillary

will be "mom." And I think that this is a correct assessment--and why the GOP is scared. Reagan got away with a lot of crap because so many young people thought of him as a benevolent "dad." I suspect that a lot of people are going to see Hillary as their strong, protective "mom" the one they can count on, the way that people counted upon FDR.

"It takes a village" shows a preoccupation with making sure that all the children---of all ages---get taken care of. That's something that people want in these hard economic times.

[MFrohike]

97. Fair point

Though, if people actually want something to be done, they need to be looking for Sam Rayburn and LBJ.

[m-lekktor]

69. LOL!! nt

[AzDar]

71. FDR ( personal hero of mine) was certainly flawed : SC stack attempt; internment camps, etc. ...

That must be the part that's a lot like Hillary...

[WorseBeforeBetter]

79. "Sweep of experience"?

That's hardly earth-shattering.

[scarletwoman]

85. So, is this the deal now?

You'll be pushing Hillary Clinton for the next 2 1/2 years?

Just asking so you'll have the opportunity to say straight out that this is what you'll be doing.

Thanks in advance.

[Beacool]

116. Why not?

There are others who do nothing but push for Warren, and that despite the fact that she keeps repeating that she has no interest in running.

[scarletwoman]

125. I'm not sure you understood my point.

It's fine by me if the OP wants to push for Clinton, I'm simply asking if that is the OP's intention so we can all know up front.

[Beacool]

130. OK.

Last edited Fri May 23, 2014, 10:37 AM - Edit history (1)

You can't blame Hillary supporters for being defensive. Around here it's nothing but Clinton hatred 24/7. Sometimes it feels like being at a RW site.

[joshcryer]

117. ProSense was a huge Clinton basher in 2008.

So we'll see if the trend continues or if she's just posting this way to rile people up.

[scarletwoman]

126. "...just posting this way to rile people up."

Oh, surely no one would do that, would they?

[ProSense]

131. Well,

"...just posting this way to rile people up."

Oh, surely no one would do that, would they?

...I posted it because she said it and I came across it. If reality serves to "rile people up," that's not my problem.

I mean, Elizabeth Warren saying something positive about Obamacare served to "rile people up."

I think comparing Hillary to FDR is absurd and the rationalizations hilarious (Hillary is barely on record supporting marriage equality and her position on Iran negotiations is atrocious). Then again, she isn't the President yet. So what's to compare?

Plame's statement was innocuous. It was more a comparison of experience Hillary would have going into the Presidency. The title of the OP piece, however, led to the reactions in this thread. LOL!

[scarletwoman]

145. "...I posted it because she said it and I came across it." And I'll grant you, that's a fair cop.

I mean, Elizabeth Warren saying something positive about Obamacare served to "rile people up."

Actually, it wasn't the fact of Warren supporting Obamacare that riled people up, it was the derisive, divisive language in which this fact was couched:

OH SHIT...Elizabeth Warren just praised Obamacare

<snip>

What the hell is wrong with her? Doesn't she know that it's nothing more than a scheme Barack Hussein Obama created to enrich wealthy insurance companies at the expense of poor people?

Maybe she needs to read DU more often. I'm going to shoot her an email encouraging her to setup an account here so she can be educated by the denizens of DU.

Looks like even liberal senators like Elizabeth Warren need to be educated by the liberal purity brigade.

You know, Warren supporters are rational, reasonable, good-hearted people. But an OP like that, that sets up a combative, "Hey let's bash the Left" tone, isn't going to NOT rile people up. The "riling up" was done totally on purpose. NOT because Elizabeth Warren expressed support for Obamacare, but because the OP used it as an occasion to indulge in hippie punching.

I'm heartily sick of that kind of snarky shit.

It doesn't bother me if people think Hillary Clinton is the bee's knees. I don't happen to agree, but I figure my disagreement doesn't matter much in the big picture of how candidates actually get chosen for us commoners by the Big Money folks.

Nor am I actually a "Warren for President" partisan. I understand where those people are coming from, and I have no desire to discourage nor disparage them. I certainly don't think they deserve to be mocked. It's the mockery that pisses me off above all.

[Major Hogwash]

123. One word: Lewinsky

There's no way that Hillary is going to run for President.
Not with Monica in the news just 15 months before serious fundraising begins.

Valerie is entitled to her opinion, though.

[DonCoquixote]

124. sorry

but Hillary will run: Monica is small potatoes.

[Beacool]

139. Please remind me whether I'm on a Democratic site.

Lewinsky????????

You think that the ensuing scandal over her husband getting oral sex from a more than willing woman is going to stop Hillary from running 20 years after the fact??????

Not only is that premise ridiculous, since she already ran for president before, but it just shows that you don't know her at all. The more they trash her, the more she pushes back.

[IronLionZion]

143. The comparison is on her breadth of experience making policy

not on the actual policies.