Welcome to BlameFest! Come on Down and Play!

[TygrBright]

Here are today's candidates:

18 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	The NRA: Mindless robot wackjobs who don't care how many get killed as long as they can have MOAR GUNZ!
	7 (39%)
	Misogyny: Men who hate women and the men who enable them on the Intertoobz!
	0 (0%)
	Mental Illness: Crazy people and the enablers who won't make it easy for us to find the dangerous ones and lock their asses up!
	3 (17%)
	Feminists: Man-hating bitches whose denial of sex sends unstable misogynists off the rails!
	2 (11%)
	Bad Parents: Privileged over-protective abusive and neglectful enablers who let their kids have gunz!
	2 (11%)
	The Media: Because... the media!
	3 (17%)
	Robb is a dingbat!
	1 (6%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[TygrBright]

1. But I'm Not Going to Play My Own Game

Here's the deal:

I'm mentally ill. I have a chronic brain disorder. I'm well aware of the suffering chronic brain disorders inflict, mostly on the people who have them, and by association, on others in our lives.

I also know that, while people with severe, uncontrolled chronic brain disorders commit crimes and do evil things, most crimes, and probably most evil, are committed by people who do not have chronic brain disorders.

It would be nice to write off all evil, all of humanity's inhumanity, to chronic brain disorders. Then perhaps we can just find all of us with CBDs, lock us up or feed us drugs or monitor us and/or take our civil rights away, and the rest of you can get on with your nice utopian evil-free lives, right?

It's not that simple, is it?

No. It's not.

Nor is it as simple as "eliminating misogyny." Do the creepy rants of Elliot Roger, the whole skanky PUA/MRA crowd and their spokeslime on the Toobz represent the real problem?

Horrid as they are, I don't believe so. If you look at the pathetic, pain-filled rants (if you can stand to... sheesh) of these sad individuals, their sense of inadequacy and disempowerment is overwhelming. That they've displaced this pain onto an easy, culturally enabled target (women) reveals not an issue about gender so much as an issue about power, subverted into an issue about gender.

And why have they done that? Who's enabling this? Who's supporting a media that objectifies women and demands that white guys "score" if they're going to be In The Club?

Who's running the Club?

Who's waving the Fear Flag at the NRA's useful idiots, so that real issues of responsible firearm use and access in differing circumstances, and the legitimate balance between regulation and rights, gets subverted into a decades-long squawkfest and primo Wedge Issue?

Short answer: Everyone who thinks there's a "simple solution" to complex problems.

That's basically all of us.

We'd love to just pinpoint "THIS" as the blameable cause for some horrific tragedy, demand that "our leaders" fix "THIS," blame them when they don't, and move on.

We live in a sick, sick culture. Our culture is about competition, not cooperation. It's about valuing material success rather than spiritual well-being. It's about quick fixes rather than long term exploration of problems and complex changes implemented over time. It's about distraction rather than sacrifice.

I refuse to participate. I do not know who to blame for the lives lost in this most recent tragedy.

But, by all means, play the game. It's one more distraction.

wearily,
Bright

[frazzled]

2. A very important and valuable post

The issue of complexity is too often lost to the easy generalizations we make in defense of our own issues. We cannot take an idiosyncratic example such as this recent, inexplicable tragedy, and use it to paint in broad strokes the myriad details of complex issues or of individual or societal attitudes.

I am a feminist and a strong advocate for both gun control measures and for understanding and help for brain disorders and other health issues. I can't take this one unique case and turn it into a rant for or against any of these things. My heart goes out to the women and men who were killed, to the parents of the killer, and yes ... even to the tortured murderer himself.

I will continue to advocate for sensible gun control measures and for a reversal of the hyperbolic gun obsession that pervades our culture. I will continue to argue against the objectification of women. I will continue to strive for compassion and medical assistance for people with brain disorders or personality disorders.

But I won't use this incident to make unfounded generalizations about anything. The problems in our society are in the everyday, ordinary instances of kids getting shot amidst poverty on the South Side of Chicago in senseless gang activity; of families struggling to help their loved ones facing mental health issues; in the struggle of women over the centuries to be left to be themselves--not objects in the eyes of men they don't even know.

For now, peace. And thanks.

[TygrBright]

3. Thank YOU.

Thank you so much.

You "get" it.

Yes.

I was feeling very much a Voice in the Wilderness, skimming the thread titles here in GD.

While I understand the need for people to vent shock and horror, and the natural impulse to blame, it's not the first time this has happened, and we never seem to learn, really.

It lifts my heart to read your words.

appreciatively,
Bright

[TBF]

4. You nailed it Bright.

It is the reason I posted Valenti's article about misogyny in the "Socialist Progressives" group - because it's not just one factor. It is the entire sick culture. (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10244812)

And I particularly like this sentence - I think you summed it up really well: We live in a sick, sick culture. Our culture is about competition, not cooperation. It's about valuing material success rather than spiritual well-being. It's about quick fixes rather than long term exploration of problems and complex changes implemented over time. It's about distraction rather than sacrifice.

[TygrBright]

7. Thanks. I was just letting off steam, but it does help...

...to see that there are others who are willing to take a pass on simple answers, and look deeper at the questions.

Which can be painful.

But nothing worth gaining is effortless, is it?

appreciatively,
Bright

[WorseBeforeBetter]

59. "...take a pass on simple answers, and look deeper at the questions."

And for that, I recc'ed your thread.

[seabeyond]

19. gosh... my heart is out there.

had nephew and his friend yesterday trying to make it, 19 and 20 and both with little kids, battle with moms.

my son now and his 20 yr old friend, coming home from college and the needs there.

and the reality to what happened in santa barbara absolutely touching those i love lives here in amarillo with my 16 yr old son.

it is all very interesting.

i spent three hours on the phone with oldest, .... and his roommate and the issues, no home, no support within his family unit. yet this kid continues to kick ass

[rrneck]

5. This may be the best OP

and the best post I have ever read here.

I always try to "control for the internet" but it would be nice for people to take a break from trying to leverage every tragedy into some sort of ideological justification.

[TygrBright]

8. Ideological and philosophical justifications have one fatal tendency--

--they over-simplify.

And anything that doesn't fit in with the over-simplified narrative for the justification gets ignored or lost.

In doing that, we miss the road signs and opportunities to take many small, unspectacular incremental steps on the road of change.

By concentrating on "BIG CHANGE NOW" we set the stage for opposition/reaction/ineffectiveness.

Small steps, many of them, persistently taken down all the possible pathways, over long time horizons, are the key to lasting change. But they're not spectacular and satisfying.

Human nature is our best friend and worst enemy.

reflectively,
Bright

[Mojorabbit]

45. Yes! I have posted twice that this is a complicated case

and that soundbite solutions are less than useful. <3

[TreasonousBastard]

6. You got it. This place is just part of a world full of...

people who sit on the sidelines of a tragedy and have all of the answers but none of the responsibility of dealing with the tragedy.

In this latest tragedy we have a guy who may or may not have had family problems but at any rate managed to rail against women and studs for years with nobody noticing? And he alone, out of all of the millions of horny young guys anguishing over their lack of a sex life, goes on a killing spree?

There are people out there who actually think there is a "simple solution" for this happening? Parents? Guns? Feminists? Men's rights? Frat boys? Porn? The list goes on, but in the end it is everything and nothing-- between outbreaks we sweep it all under the rug and dream on that we are doing OK.

[TygrBright]

9. I wouldn't go so far as to presume we dream "we are doing OK"...

I think, rather, we are daunted by the complexity, and because the needed small, persistent, unspectacular efforts are so unsatisfying, we just give up, and assume the problems are unsolvable until someone with the muscle to make the One Big Change comes along.

We have met the enemy, and he is, as always, us.

wryly,
Bright

[TreasonousBastard]

10. I'll meet you halfway on that because I knew...

I was being simplistic myself.

I'm reminded of a local group I'm in discussing global warming. It was originally lost on one or two of them that our little group can solve nothing, but can make little changes that can lead to bigger changes.

I still get into it with one member who rants on about, say, cleaning the creeks.

"But you've been ranting about cleaning the creeks for 20 years and nothing's been done. Why not find one thing to clean and focus on that?"

Now I'm a defeatist because I prefer not to join the chorus to get it all done RIGHT NOW!

I'm on boards and am active in a number of groups out here, and I always get blank stares when I bring up "How can we work with so-and-so on this?

Yeah. Pogo knows.

[MannyGoldstein]

11. Spot on. nt

[Lisa D]

12. Excellent post!

I especially like this paragraph:

"We live in a sick, sick culture. Our culture is about competition, not cooperation. It's about valuing material success rather than spiritual well-being. It's about quick fixes rather than long term exploration of problems and complex changes implemented over time. It's about distraction rather than sacrifice."

[seabeyond]

17. well. this man hating bitch, and ya, i am called that pretty consistantly. twice yesterday,

i believe.

so ya. i feel real welcome here.

this man hating bitch perfectly understands the complexities. and in the love of all those around me. i have a couple 20 yr old nephews, two friends about that age, my own two teen boys and a couple nieces that age all trying to figure this shit out.

the best they can

i can assure you that i see none of this as easy or simple

if anyone can actually be open enough for conversation instead of reducing me to a man hating bitch... i think they will be clever enough to get the simplicity of that simple concept.

anyway...

man hating bitch

wow

[redqueen]

43. No shit. Says a lot, right there.

How many other hateful, bigoted slurs would stand like this one does?

Sure isn't misogyny that's the cause of anything though. Just cause it's so goddamned acceptable. That means nothing, NOTHING.

[redqueen]

44. "pain-filled rants of sad individuals"? Fuck that.

These are fucking bigots full of hate.

Nice minimization.

[LittleBlue]

55. That is brilliant

Should be stickied

[hootinholler]

66. Fuck

Now I have to go recommend that inane poll.

Only after reading your follow up can the purpose be divined.

Complex indeed.

All the Best Bright! Sláinte Mor!

[quinnox]

13. my vote is for comedy sake

just wanted to make that clear, before someone turns me in.

[AverageJoe90]

14. This is one of those *sarcastic* polls, btw, right?

[TygrBright]

68. I prefer "ironic." But, yeah... n/t

[AverageJoe90]

73. That's what I thought, TBH. Glad I was right, as it seems(or was I? Damn! This is still confusing).

Just for further clarification(if needed), I really DON'T blame feminism for what Rodger did to those people(hence the vote, unless I missed the point). He was a person with a very terribly malfunctioning moral compass.

[seabeyond]

15. man hating bitches? nt

[ismnotwasm]

16. As apposed to

Misogyny: Men who hate women and the men who enable them on the Intertoobz!

[seabeyond]

21. i am pretty sure we have a rw yelling about the feminist bitches too, and there seems to be an issue

i do not know if i really get what this thread is about. i have perused.

but waiting for a little more info and insight. i guess that would be a matter of getting how complex it all is. though it really feels being reduced to a man hating bitch.... is the oversimplification to say the least

i dunno. just throwing it out there

[Skittles]

30. easy way to see the easily threatenend men on DU

check out who votes for the cause to be "man hating bitches"

[seabeyond]

31. ha ha... didnt even think to look at votes. lol

i am sure.

well skittle.....

man hating bitch that i am, had a awesome three hour conversation with 19 yr old son, that has been away for a year and will be home soon. i have more faith than what i see on du.

i think, this man hating bitch will take myself off, and enjoy my 16 yr old son and his friend, corey, that spent the night and has been hanging here all day.

you... skittle. have a wonderful day.

[Skittles]

32. don't get too upset by DU's resident assholes

they are SOOOOOOOO easily threatened and the only way they can pump up their pathetic lives is by arming themselves or degrading women - fuck them all

[seabeyond]

37. bah hahahah. well, look at the three. one sends me taunting c word pms, and still here on du to

vote.

that was a hoot. thanks for reminding me to look. actually walking off du, with a smile. thanks skittle.

[Skittles]

38. You can bet the has a tiny c***

Last edited Mon May 26, 2014, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Look, we can use a c-word too.

[seabeyond]

39. .

and some women, just too clever. lol

[SevenSixtyTwo]

56. LOL!

My woman (wife) is also armed.

[Skittles]

57. "my woman"

WTF

I might be armed too

[SevenSixtyTwo]

58. You should be.

It's your right as an American.

[Skittles]

60. If a guy thought he owned me

I'd kick his ass, NO GUN NEEDED

[SevenSixtyTwo]

61. You and Steven Seagal!

I can only wish for such hand to hand combat skills.

[pintobean]

62. Is it okay

if a woman refers to her husband as her man? My wife and I use those terms sometimes. Neither of us actually think we own the other.

[Skittles]

64. to each their own

it would make me feel positively ill

[AverageJoe90]

81. I don't think that was meant to be taken seriously, though. nt

[freshwest]

40. Yup, already saw the video. Predictable. n/t

[Initech]

20. Step right up folks and spin the wheel!!!

[PeaceNikki]

22. Ha! Ha! Ha! People are dead and others are trying to figure it out

Let's all poke fun at them and mock them for the things about which they are passionate.

Hilarious poll.

[seabeyond]

24. i am realy not getting this. i am not getting why i am not suppose to be bothered, being referred

to as a man hating bitch. especially as men on du have consistently called me manhating, and it is allowed to stand. because i speak out on womens issues.

can you explain to me why i should not be angry being called a man hating bitch.

[PeaceNikki]

25. the poll is hilarious

in its immature mockery.

[seabeyond]

27. so it is funny? maybe being knee deep in this with a lot of teenagers right now... life issues

they struggle with, male and female. i cannot see the humor.

you know. the whole feminist do not see the humor or whatever.

[PeaceNikki]

33. no, it's not funny. it's mocking and dismissive.

[seabeyond]

36. thank you. too confused sometimes. i am off to enjoy my day. nt

[freshwest]

41. Sadly, you may get a hidden post for that language. Hides often go by person, not content. Sigh.

As far as being angry, sea, consider they are saying more about themselves than they claim about you. Your family and others who know you better, will never think or say that abour you.

Most of our strong emotions arise from assuming the reality of something that is unreal.

~ The Dalai Lama

I agree with him. They cannot define you. DU is increasingly uncivil and disrespectful, as if it's a game or a place to vent hatred without realizing another person may be undergoing struggles they won't reveal. Yet are gone after with sharp knives for something not germane to the lives of those who are screaming loudest. All over a media story they'll forget in minutes. hours or days and mean nothing.

I said shortly before Meta was eliminated, that in most online forums I had a curiousity to find out how others came to think as they do and would like to get to know some of them. I once felt that way about DU and learned a bit of how some people live. I've made friends online that I have welcomed into my real life. After seeing what I've seen at DU over time, that will no longer be the case.

Take good care of yourself. I hope you are enjoying somewhat warmer weather. It's still a bit chilly here.

[seabeyond]

51. btw... i am all on TygrBright's side mostly. just not this OP. none of what i am saying is to be

taken personally.

we, have been chilly also. just had an excellent storm blow thru. been a handful of days. really appreciate it, cause i am not a fan of the heat. later the summer, the better off i am

and ya.

i could get a hide. and how unfair would that be. sometimes, we have to jsut do right and do not worry about the hide. what will happen? besides being kicked of again, cause others felt it was ok to call me a man hating bitch.

meh

[Union Scribe]

34. "trying to figure it out"

No. The same posters with the same pet theories arguing the same things they do any time a high profile crime like this happens is NOT trying to figure it out. People are using it as more grist for the eternal DU wars. Yes, people are dead. And some DUers are glorying in the opportunity it poses. And that's what we should be rolling our eyes at.

[seaglass]

23. I guess 2 days was the limit for taking mass murder seriously. Haha. n/t

[seabeyond]

26. maybe it is all so very very complex we just are not suppose to talk about it. and in not

talking all will be resolved? or the problems flourish and grow and that is cool cause inevtiable?

i really obviously am not understanding this whole thread.... of thumbs up. calling us man hating bitches.... not to mention the rest. i see a lot of people think it is cool. i am not getting why it is cool.

[redqueen]

46. It's all just a distraction! STOP TALKING ABOUT MISOGYNY!

[seabeyond]

47. i didnt bring it up. i was minding my own business when i see i am being called a man hating

b..., again.

i wasnt talking about misogyny until i was called a bitch.

[redqueen]

48. I was mocking this OP.

I can't fucking believe this shit wasn't hidden.

"Man-hating bitches" ... just fine.

Earlier it was someone comparing "rapists" to "heartless bitches".

But we don't need misogyny in the TOS!

BECAUSE MISOGYNY IS FUCKING A-OK HERE

[seabeyond]

49. i was mocking the mocking. what is really a hoot? yesterday a repug said something about cowering

b****

and oh the outrage. now that. that one was misogyny. and wrong.

calling you and i the b word? meh.

and 6-1 leave, from what i saw. i do not have the alert.

[redqueen]

50. I'd LOVE to see the alert and results.

So fucking sick and tired of this shit.

[seabeyond]

52. we were called man hating bitches lovingly and in jest'ish? nt

[LadyHawkAZ]

28. Every time something tragic happens, there's a strong desire

to find a scapegoat, a simple solution that makes sense of a senseless act. Reality is never that simple and it's never a one-size-fits-all easy answer.

[seabeyond]

29. who says it is? nt

[HereSince1628]

35. 10-12 times a year people's fear of the mentally ill are validated

by these suicides plus mass killings.

365 days a year, the mentally ill live with social prejudice and discrimination or with the fear that they will be identified with the stigmatizing mark that bring it on.

Not that anything written on DU will in anyway change the balance of opinion about mental illness or punishing reality for persons with mental disorders, but, I'm glad that this time the community is provided with more potential choices than usual.

[Shandris]

42. Back to the 'blame a group' game.

The only winning move is not to play.

[bravenak]

53. I love that some people picked feminists.

Damn.

[AverageJoe90]

75. See post 68. This is apparently supposed to be one of those "ironic" polls...from what I understood.

Unless I somehow managed to miss the point, a vote for one of the options would seem to indicate that you actually DON'T blame something for the incident mentioned here in.....

[geek tragedy]

77. The two other people who chose that option

are well known for their eagerness to taint feminists here.

[AverageJoe90]

79. Well, I suppose we'll have to wait and see to figure out who got the point and who didn't.

If it was me, then I'll gladly rescind my vote in that case.

[bravenak]

82. Maybe.

I'll investigate post haste.

Never vote with those guys. If they say one thing then you know it's the opposite. LOL!

[LittleBlue]

54. This list

DU in a nutshell the last three days.

Well done, sir/ma'am.

[LiberalEsto]

63. Global Warming (THERE - I dared to say it!)

Heat makes people angrier and more aggressive.

[struggle4progress]

65. Hmpf! I've been blaming crazy misogynistic gun-toting feminist journalist moms for years

[The Straight Story]

67. I think people usually just blame a group they don't like when able

So there is something for everyone to use to aid their personal causes.

Knife, gun, car, males, blondes, youth, mental health issues, religion (too much or too little), social status (well off/poor/etc), mra, nra, cops (interviewed him), parents, education system.

This guy was a gift to many people on the internet who will keep him famous for a long time trying to explain to everyone how what happened only goes to prove they were right about what caused it all.

Somewhere, he is probably laughing at them all.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

69. The first step to solving a problem is diagnosing the cause. N.T.

[lpbk2713]

70. What happened to Pitbulls and Rotties?

That one usually pops up about once a week.

And North v. South.

[geek tragedy]

71. interesting, but not surprising, who voted for the fourth option

and the ability to endorse hate speech and pretend it's actually a joke. nyuk nyuk nyuk


EDITED TO ADD: was a reference to the 4th option, not third.

[AverageJoe90]

74. Wasn't this supposed to be one of those "ironic" polls? That's the impression I got, anyway.

I would imagine that those people who voted for the third option are actually TIRED of mental illness being blamed for every little thing.....unless I somehow missed the point of the poll.

[geek tragedy]

76. Maybe unfair to lump you in with the other two who voted

for the option with misogynist language.

Meant the 4th option.

[AverageJoe90]

78. Well, I can say, again, that it's possible that I missed the point.

But it really did appear to be one of those sarcastic-type polls, whereas the vote would indicate the *opposite* of what you believe; operating on that assumption, I chose feminism, because I don't think feminists are to blame, at all for what Rodger did, as I honestly stated in post 73.

[Enrique]

72. what are video games?

chopped liver?

[Common Sense Party]

80. How about we blame the criminals for criminal behavior?

The killer killed. I'd say HE was the guilty party.