Do people really think sex is needed to live?

[boston bean]

I'm sorry, it's not.

Any implication that sex is necessary for an individual human to continue living, means that the other individual not providing it is the cause of their death. Taking this POV to the end means that the case of the Isla Vista shooter taking his own life was the fault of others, and the lives of those who he felt aggrieved by, ie killing him.

I'm sorry, not buying it.

[dawg]

1. Well unless I'm some kind of zombie, you are right.

It's not a necessity.

[Katashi_itto]

26. It certainly makes life more pleasant. But it's not a requirement by any means.

[Puzzledtraveller]

2. To people who think it is, it is to them.

Speaking for me, as I only ever do, no.

[boston bean]

3. They can think it all they like. However, not having sex is not going to

kill them.

[11 Bravo]

101. Maslow includes sex in the Hierarchy of Needs. Also ...

without it the future of the species would be fairly dim.
(However, I do agree that one psychotic, misogynistic, Southern California punk was not in danger of expiring because no woman wanted to have sex with him.)

[seabeyond]

4. no. logic fails. even if they think they need to live, if they do not have, they will ... LIVE

they will not die.

[el_bryanto]

11. That seems like an odd argument.

I mean everybody's experience is different, but just deciding something is necessary for someone because they think it is seems like it opens an enormous can of worms with another can of worms inside it.

Bryant

[Puzzledtraveller]

23. This is what I meant

If someone believes and or asserts that something is necessary to their survival, then to that person it is, because that's what they believe. Not what I think, or believe, or what anyone else thinks or believes. The argument if there was one was directed at the OP, as to say, "you can only think for yourself, not for someone else".

[uppityperson]

59. simply believing something does not make it true.

If you mean "Do you think it is", that might be true. But to the question of "is it", the answer is no.

[Puzzledtraveller]

64. Facts and truths are not the same.

truth is subjective.

[PeaceNikki]

33. With a can of worms in the hand of each of those worms.

[Whisp]

5. I think that's called 'legitimate murder'...

fucking sickness is getting worse.

[boston bean]

6. Yeah, that's how some of these posts read. I can't imagine they are grasping

what it is they are saying.

No, sorry, no person on this earth is entitled to sex. NOT ONE. Because it involves another human being who should have autonomy over their own body and consent is needed. All this, sex is a needed bologna, only bolsters entitlement of one over others..

[davidn3600]

7. It's a debate in psychology whether it's a "need"

However, Maslow did include things such as "love" and "intimacy" and yes "sex" in the Hierarchy of Needs pyramid.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

32. Maslow's hierarchy is always open to interpretation.

Certainly, in his 1943 paper, for instance, we find the line

The perfectly healthy, normal, fortunate man has no sex needs

although he means it in the sense that a 'fortunate' man is already having such a 'need' fulfilled.

In any case, the original claim on DU in another thread that you need sex to live, which is obviously, and patently false.

You need to breathe to live (or to somehow otherwise have your cells provided with oxygen and carbon dioxide removed), you need to eat, to drink (unless what you eat provides water), to sleep, to regulate your temperature, and to eliminate waste.

Basically, all of the physiological things you got provided with in your 'pod' in the Matrix. There are asexuals around, and they live perfectly well without sex.

I'm a dan of Maslow's hierarchy in general, although I generally stick to the representations of the pyramid that don't lump 'sex' into physiological requirements simply because it's something most people do with a body. Indeed, many people consider 'sex' to be primarily in the mind, and the bodily adjuncts of the reproductive system to be merely by-products of what goes on mentally. That drops 'sex' from the 'physiological' level, but leaves it up in the yellow 'love/belonging' level.

[jeff47]

8. I really think part of sex-ed needs to be

teaching our kids how to masterbate. And masterbate very well.

Sure, it's not as good as sex, but if you do it right it'll provide some "relief".

[MineralMan]

14. Boys all seem to figure it out without training,

I think. Probably girls do, too, but I'm male, so I can't speak for girls and women.

[seabeyond]

15. ;). nt

[jeff47]

17. There's a difference between being able to do it

and being able to do it well.

[MineralMan]

18. Ah, I see.

It's all an experiment. Time spent in the lab is always rewarded.

[hughee99]

25. Practice makes perfect. n/t

[dawg]

43. Crap!

Now I have performance anxiety. I thought I would at least be free of that until I started dating again.

[seabeyond]

105. so fuggin' bustin' up. didnt know there was an issue like this. too too funny. nt

[MattBaggins]

133. I figured out how to do it very well

all on my own.

[Gormy Cuss]

61. The teaching needed is to accept masturbation as a legitimate form of sexual expression.

Last edited Tue May 27, 2014, 03:52 PM - Edit history (1)

I actually had sex ed class back in the dark ages and the instructors were neutral on masturbation. THAT got them in trouble with parents who thought it should have been presented as a bad thing.

It was great for us kids to have an adult simply explain it as sexual function just like all the others.

[MineralMan]

77. It's masturbation, by the way, not masterbation.

I suppose it gets addressed in some way in sex ed classes. Such classes didn't exist when I was a kid. Nothing. Still, I never got any negative teaching about it, either. It was just never mentioned. Guys joked about it sometimes, but it really wasn't much of a topic.

My point was that it's something that's pretty universal, whether it is discussed or not. My attitude always was that it's my body, so whose business could it be? It was a complete non-issue, as far as I was concerned.

[Gormy Cuss]

85. I know how to spell it, Teach.

Yes, I got it wrong in my post. I'm so glad that you found it important enough to call out.

Kids learn to masturbate on their own but many get the message that there's something wrong with it. Teaching about it from a neutral perspective lets them understand that it's just part of human sexual expression --no better and no worse than other sex.

[MineralMan]

87. There's a long history of masturbation being considered

as sinful or wrong. I suppose some people still think so, but people think all sex is wrong in some cases. Of course it should get a neutral treatment. A negative treatment just causes distress for people.

As for the spelling thing, it's often misspelled that way. Misspellings bother me, so I post the correct spelling. Thanks for making the correction. Spelling matters when communication is the goal.

[Gormy Cuss]

90. Spelling matters, sure. You could have simply used the correct spelling in your post

and that would have made your point.

[whopis01]

88. Masturbation always puts 'u' in the middle of things. n/t

[uppityperson]

110. master bating is what really good trolls do. nt

[GoCubsGo]

121. Well, if one is the master of their own domain...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Contest

[maggiesfarmer]

20. you might be right, I might even agree, but to be clear...

that would be a political sh**storm.

[redqueen]

22. Does doing it "right" involve

not doing it just because you're bored?

Just asking because I'm so sick of the 'women have better orgasms' whine. Can't help but think that using masturbation as a cure for boredom doesn't exactly help make orgasms better.

[dawg]

40. Doing it right involves using a clockwise motion with the right hand ...

along with a counter-clockwise motion with the left hand, unless, of course, you live in the Southern hemisphere when ...

Oh nevermind. I've got nothing. I must be doing it wrong.

[riqster]

107. Years ago, the National Lampoon published the "Palma Sutra".

Funnier than hell, at the time. I confess remembering nothing except laughing a lot.

But hey, maybe it did show the path to Nirvana.

[jeff47]

151. Mostly it involves teaching

1) it's normal. Virtually everyone has done it, and you won't grow hair on your palms or other bad results.

2) Experiment until you figure out what works for you.

[arely staircase]

108. when I was a teenager I could have taught that class

Today's lesson: locking the bathroom door and running the water really loud.

[LanternWaste]

9. I think we often call our sacred cows "needs" to better rationalize bad decisions.

I think we often call our sacred cows, our desires, and our lack of discipline "needs" to better rationalize our bad decisions.

[dawg]

41. But I need to eat Doritos and watch Netflix 3 hours a day.

I need it!

[Puzzledtraveller]

58. Is that all?

[snooper2]

10. Sometimes sex is needed to die, or, at least to get exploding genitals

LOL



Honey Bee: Exploding Testicles.

The reproductive cycle of bees is fascinating - and complex. But here's the short story: a queen is selectively bred in a special "queen cell" in the hive and fed royal jelly by worker bees to induce her to become sexually mature.

A virgin queen that survives to adulthood without being killed by her rivals will take a mating flight with a dozen or so male drones (out of tens of thousands eligible bachelors in the colony). But don't call these drones lucky because during mating, their genitals explode and snap off inside the queen!

Strange as it is, this actually makes evolutionary sense: the snapped-off penis acts as a genital plug to prevent other drones from fertilizing the queen. But tell that to the dead drone whose penis just exploded.

[Note: this strategy is so successful that it is apparently employed by other species of animals, such as the male wasp spider]

http://www.neatorama.com/2007/04/30/30-strangest-animal-mating-habits/#!Q5P2E

[AgingAmerican]

12. In his manifesto

He outlined a plan to create a utopia in which sex didn't exist.

[maggiesfarmer]

13. not necessary like air, water, food, clothing...

but I believe mental health professionals have near consensus opinion that a sex plays a large role in that field. Not suggesting that a person can't be mentally/emotionally healthy while abstaining from sex.

[Laelth]

16. Absent sex, the whole species dies.

So, yes, as a species, humans need sex to survive.

Individually, no. Plenty of people survive without sex, but I continue to believe that humans are social and sexual animals, and that we're all happier and healthier when we have human connection, social activity, communication, affection, and sex.

-Laelth

[AverageJoe90]

30. This, pretty much. nt

[Laelth]

35. Hello, Joe.

-Laelth

[Lancero]

168. The implication of this though...

Is that for the survival of the speices, some men must procreate by any means necessary. That they, to ensure the survival of our species, have the right to force women to birth their children.

The question is though - How would you determine which men have such a right?

Anyway, sex isn't needed for the survival of the individual, OR the survival of the species.

[Laelth]

169. Sex is not a "right."

But it is natural and healthy. To be certain, there are people who, for ideological reasons of their own, want to stretch my argument that sex is healthy into a mandate that women must give men sex and that it is their duty and obligation to do so, but I never said that, nor would I.

Because I do not believe that sex is a "right," I feel no need to respond to your question on that subject.

As to your third paragraph, I have to disagree with your belief that sex isn't necessary for the survival of the species. It seems pretty clear to me that sex is necessary for the survival of the species. But then, I would ask, why are we talking about survival, really? My point is that sex is good (healthy), and most people I know agree with me on that.



-Laelth

[Lancero]

170. Sex isn't necessary for the survial of humanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_insemination

[Laelth]

171. Hmm ...

I think it's tragic when we need to rely upon artificial insemination for the propagation of the species. Sex is healthy and natural. Denying the importance of sex, on the other hand, is highly unnatural and inhuman.

-Laelth

[Lancero]

173. Who says I'm denying the importance of it?

We've agreed that it isn't necessary for the survival of the individual. I'm showing that it isn't necessary for the survival of the species.

This has nothing to do on the important society places on sexual relationships.

That said, rapists place a high value on sex. So, does this make their actions natural and just something that humans do? If sex is natural and apart of humanity, then are they not just expressing their humanity?

[Laelth]

174. No clue where you are going with this.

But at this stage, I am not really interested.

-Laelth

[dickthegrouch]

19. When the entire media seems to be geared to saying how easy it is

And an individual's experience is the exact opposite (despite being physically attractive), I can imagine a certain confusion, or worse settling in.

Most TV commercials are sexual in nature. I hate watching them, I'm no prude but I consider them vulgar and crass.

When Pop stars pathetically try to outdo each other in broadcastable sexiness in their music videos, I cringe.

Sexualization has become a high art form. It is bound to have repercussions.

Rodger was not unattractive, however, it is not easy to get to know someone well enough to get intimate with them, and there is a great deal of anecdotal evidence to suggest that it is easy to "get laid". Clearly his experience was very different (perhaps as a result of his increasing(?) confusion/distress at apparently many rejections). I prefer to believe that many of the rejections I've had were due to the other guy sensing a mismatch in maturity levels . Perhaps Rodger hadn't figured out where he was going wrong yet. But it *IS* devastating to be rejected or ignored week after week after week when the media appears to show that it's so easy (Obviously I've been there, done that). I was 39 before I found the person I thought was my soul-mate. While I wasn't a virgin at 39, there have been movies about how pathetic 40 year-old virgins "should" be viewed as being.

At 23, 40 seems a long way off.

In no way do I condone his behavior, I'm adding some perspective, I hope

[dawg]

45. I identify with that 40 year-old virgin movie.

I'm not a virgin, but that's exactly how I'll probably act once I manage to work up the courage to get myself back out there. Plus, I, too, am a big fan of these guys:

[dickthegrouch]

46. I love Asia, and Yes, and Sky

All those late-70's, early 80's synth-pop bands are my saviors, coupled with (un?)healthy doses of Schutz, Monteverdi, Tye, Taverner and Tallis who all keep me sane.

[RobertEarl]

21. It is a biological imperative

If no one ever had sex, no one would ever have sex.

[boston bean]

24. Your comment is non responsive to what is asked in the OP.

If you are just adding to it fine. But we can agree that no one living individual is going to die because they don't have sex, right?

[RobertEarl]

27. It sure makes life more fun and enjoyable

It would be an interesting experiment to see if never having sex would kill one or not. I doubt it has ever been done, except by maybe some Buddhist monk?

To late for me to volunteer, and I sure wouldn't demand it of anyone. But if someone did try to live without sex and lived to write about it, it might make for an interesting story? Nah.....

[boston bean]

29. You make it seem like it's such a rarity. Plenty of people do not have sex.

And are none the worse for it. I would hope there would be no judgment visited upon those who choose to abstain.

You are speaking of things that are just not even being implied here. Of course people enjoy sex. That doesn't mean they are going to die if they don't get it.

[RobertEarl]

36. I sure am glad i lived with it.

The bonding, the sensuality, the pleasure.

Haven't tried all the ways of 'having' sex, and i am still alive, so there may be a point to your idea.

[boston bean]

38. No one is saying one must live without it if they have a willing partners.

Saying that it is a need one needs to live makes it an entitlement issue.

[MohRokTah]

28. It's an absolute requirement for the species, but not to any single individual. eom

[NickB79]

31. Not in the biological sense. But in the mental sense, maybe?

A person could theoretically live off of nothing but beans and rice, with a multivitamin thrown in every other day, while locked in a room with nothing but a Netflix subscription to watch. Some people would be OK with this, but personally, I'd be making a noose out of my bedsheet pretty quickly.

For many (most?) people, sex isn't just about carnal pleasure. It's about love. It's about feeling connected to another person in the deepest possible way. It's why so many marriages end in divorce when one partner's sex drive disconnects from the others.

That shouldn't be interpreted to say that anyone else is to blame for one's lack of sex. Even the most socially awkward people can find mates if they try hard enough (I'm living proof of that ). And if you find yourself in a relationship where your partner no longer desires sex, you are free to leave, even if that means divorce. It's not fun or easy, but the choice is yours. If you take your own life or someone else's because you don't get sex, it's all on you.

[boston bean]

37. I reject this. And the reason is because it involves another participant.

One that must be willing. Anything else is a sense of entitlement. People don't need to have sex to live fulfilling lives. If they do find willing partners, I'm all for it.

We are discussing a frame of mind where people and society make this seem like it is a need to actually live, on an individual level. You can find people who think it's just like the need to breathe air and drink water. I want to be perfectly clear in this and what the discussion is about, so maybe we can discuss this to a conclusion that makes some sense.

[redqueen]

44. It's part of a larger agenda. nt

[tkmorris]

48. I don't think that is a valid reason to reject it

For instance it is well known that people who are denied meaningful social interaction over a period of time (isolated prisoners, hermits, etc.) suffer mental health issues. There may be a few who appear to overcome this lack of interaction, at least outwardly, but on the whole it is a harmful experience.

That social interaction does require the participation of other people. If people, en masse, refuse that interaction it is harmful to those it is refused to. Does that mean they are "entitled"? No it does not but that does not mean we should be blind to the effect if we ostracize them.

[boston bean]

51. Really you think that not having sex causes mental health issues?

That is quite a jump there.

A woman or a man not having intercourse with another person is in some way the cause of another persons mental health issues.

You might want to re-think what you are saying. Plus, do you think people will die because they don't have sex with someone? Or is that others will die because they didn't have sex with them.

You are getting mighty close to implying that women or men owe sex to others and if they don't they will make them crazy.

Or are you implying people who don't have sex are susceptible to having mental health issues?

[tkmorris]

56. You seem to have responded to the wrong post

I am assuming as much anyway, since the comments you seem to be responding to do not appear in my post at all.

[NickB79]

50. "People don't need to have sex to live fulfilling lives"

I can agree with you on this in a more detached, clinical sense, but also don't think I could agree on a personal level. Without sex, my daughter never would have been born, and I don't see myself living a fulfilling life without her in it. If we were unable to conceive a child, we would have adopted, but that's just using someone else's sex life to fulfill our needs. And honestly, if my wife had told me when we were dating that she didn't want children, that would have been a deal-breaker for me. I actually turned down the advances of a friend who wanted to be more than friends simply because I knew she was not interested at all in having a family.

And as I pointed out in my previous post, a great many marriages end because of a mismatch in the sexual desires of the partners. Either the couple divorce, or one or the other cheat. And now that we have drugs such as Viagra, we see older couples willing to shell out hundreds of dollars a month in order to enjoy sex again, even though they may have had happy, fulfilling lives before the advent of ED medication (ask my grandparents. I wish I did not know about that one). Clearly a great many people do place a healthy sex life highly enough in their hierarchy of wants and needs that they are willing to make great sacrifices to obtain it.

Basically, it's very hard to make the blanket statement you made, because everyone has a different definition of what they consider fulfilling lives, and what they need to live such lives. I'm sure a great many people could live fulfilling lives without sex, but at the same time I don't see any good coming from implying that those that say they do need sex to maintain a healthy mental state as being untruthful or mistaken.

[boston bean]

55. Many people do live fulfilling lives absence of sex.

And NO ONE needs it to continue living. That is the point. Saying that they do need sex to live, provides people with a sense of entitlement.

[NickB79]

66. And many people don't. That's why blanket statements are so difficult

Saying that they do need sex to live, provides people with a sense of entitlement.

Honestly, I'm not getting the same Point A to Point B connection you are with this statement. Just because I feel that my mental health would suffer dramatically if I no longer had a sex life doesn't necessarily imply a sense of entitlement. No matter what I did for a woman, I can't ever remember feeling like she "owed" me sex in any way. I was raised to respect women as my equals, not as sexual objects.

Personal experience: after our daughter was born, our sex life suffered. Greatly. Both my wife and I were in a deep bout of depression, and only through counseling were we able to hold our marriage together and get back on track. The lack of sex was only one component of the entire equation, as we were also sleep-deprived, working full-time jobs without daycare, juggling bills, etc, but the lack of sex was the one thing that made us both feel like we were growing further and further apart. I never once felt entitled to sex with my wife, but at the same time recognized I could no longer live like this. It got so bad at one point I considered suicide, because it all seemed so hopeless.

Today, things are much better in our family, but that experience is why I have to politely disagree with you on this topic.

[Dawgs]

72. Similar situation here.

My wife was put on a birth control pill that kept her from wanting sex at all.

I never felt she owed me, but it most definitely affected our marriage. There were more than a few times where I considered ending it.

It wasn't until she stopped taking the birth control pills that we started having a healthy sexual relationship again.

I never once felt entitled.

[kcr]

138. So many people don't even realize BC pills can do that

It's a side effect hardly ever talked about. The effects on a relationship can be devastating. Many don't even make the connection that it's the BC pills.

[LanternWaste]

52. You then believe that a paraplegic is unable to love another person?

"It's about love. It's about feeling connected to another person in the deepest possible way..."

You then believe that a paraplegic is unable to love another person, or feel connected to another person? Or an individual with ALS? If not, what is the precise and relevant difference?

[NickB79]

67. There is more to sex than Tab A into Slot B

And no, you don't need to orgasm to enjoy sex.

So yes, a paraplegic can very well love another person, even in a sexual manner. The first thing that came to mind while reading your post was Christopher Reeve's interview on Larry King: http://www.cnn.com/books/dialogue/9805/reeve/index.html?iref=newssearch

KING: Simple things. In the movie "Coming Home," Jon Voight played a person paralyzed from the shoulders down who had sexual relationships. Can you have sex with your wife?

REEVE: No, not in the ordinary way. But...

KING: But there's still ...

REEVE: ... there's creativity.

KING: A fulfillment. Is that something -- it's hard to ask this -- that you miss, but since you don't have the feeling, it's not missing?

REEVE: No. You miss it terribly, but there are marriages where, you know, the couple are making love all the time, but they're not really as intimate as they should be, you know -- it's a ritual, or you know, somehow not that fulfilling. But, oddly enough, Dana and I are just as intimate as we ever were, and that's what really counts.

[LanternWaste]

83. I think you're beginning to flail.

I think you're beginning to flail. There are many conditions which prevent an otherwise happy and committed couple from engaging in sex (if one does not broaden the definition to the point in which it means anything anyone wants it to).

"There is more to sex than Tab A into Slot B.." And there is so much more to love than mere sex.

[LittleBlue]

34. I don't need shelter or human interaction to live

Hell, I can technically live without much heat, just as long as I'm warm enough for my organs to function.

Sex isn't necessary to stay alive, but life would be pretty fuggin awful without it. Living without sex is right up there with subsisting on just porridge and dirty water.

It doesn't justify what the shooter did, though. He wasn't getting any because people could see he was a lunatic.

[sinkingfeeling]

39. Absolutely not.

[tkmorris]

42. OK, you're not buying it

My question is, not buying it from who? Who has actually said that sex is NECESSARY to live?

Now, I would hope there is no doubt that a healthy sex life is relevant to mental health. The claim you argue against in the OP is of course a completely different kettle of fish and I really would like to know who proposed the argument you are attempting to refute.

[Sweet Freedom]

47. Can you clarify this—

there is no doubt that a healthy sex life is relevant to mental health.

What do you mean?

[tkmorris]

49. I mean that a healthy sex life has been shown...

to have a positive effect on mental health outcomes.

[boston bean]

53. So, maybe if some girl did sleep with Elliot he might have a better mental health outcome?

I just don't like where this is going. This type of thinking leads to a sense of entitlement.

Am I saying that sex isn't part of a healthy relationship? No, I'm not. But I also don't feel a healthy relationship includes a sense of entitlement and you better have sex with them or else you might drive them crazy. Sorry, not going there and I reject it outright.

[tkmorris]

65. I am not seeing your problem with this concept

There are quite a few things human beings need, either because having them makes us healthier physically and mentally or because they are outright necessary to survive. Does that mean any of us are "entitled" to them? Of course not.

It is possible that if Elliot (?) had taken the medications he may have needed, the outcome would have been better. It's possible that better psychiatric care might have improved the outcome. It's possible that if he had a close friend to ground him the outcome might have been improved. And yes, it is possible that if he had a healthy romantic relationship the outcome may have been better. NONE of the above means I think he was entitled to any of those things. The idea is ludicrous.

[boston bean]

69. Then I think you are having a problem with the concept I am speaking about. Are you?

Do people NEED sex as individuals to live? NO they do not. Stating they do, brings the air of entitlement because healthy sex involves at least two people with consent. Stating that people who have sex have better mental health outcomes, is quite presumptuous, and also, I think a way that helps perpetuate entitlement. Stating that sex is not necessary for a happy life, however brings forth no sense of entitlement, and it happens to be a truth. It does no harm in stating that, does it?

So, whatever long drive your trying to take to try and make my point moot, is not necessary, it has failed.

Sticking to topics is usually a good idea.

[redqueen]

68. It is an odious assertion.

It comes too close to the idea that the 'love of a good woman' is all that's needed to stop men from behaving badly.

Proposing that this or that circumstance, if it had gone differently in his life, would have averted this tragedy is not offensive in and of itself.

Jumping straight to sex with a partner or the romantic affections of a partner is seriously fucked up.

As most feminists know, men like this will never be happy with actual real life women. They want the objectified fantasy image the media sells.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

78. Sex, sex, sex, sex, sex....

Your opening salvo and constant drumbeat in the thread always comes back to the idea that men just want to and believe they are owed putting the penis into the vagina. It's the same sexist, what you would call patriarchal, bullshit stereotype you claim to be against.

But let's talk about intimacy.

Eliot Rodgers could not be helped with that. He had no chance of ever being intimate with a woman. He was too self absorbed, too much of a narcissist. And any chance he'd open his real twisted self up to another person would be met with revulsion by any sane person. He was only in love with himself. Up until the point he looked in the mirror and probably realized he was the one he hated most.

But your question was not about Eliot Rodgers, but in general. I'm sure you also weren't including women, but I will. And it's not always about sex. Some people crave intimate physical contact with another person, male or female, same sex, whatever. They see other people having it, holding hands in the park, kissing at the mall and it gets to them. It depresses them. Men and women. Gay and straight. And lack of intimacy leads to depression. A general feeling one is an outcast. These people generally don't even have a close circle of friends and often are distant from family as well. A lot of them were bullied as kids, and this is merely an extension of not having any friends whatsoever.

Those people often live their lives, to it's natural end. Is it fulfilling or fun? Can it be classified as a life well lived? Probably not. Some of those people commit suicide. The .01% who suffer from such severe mental illness such as Eliot Rodgers might take it out on others before exiting the earth.

And some of them go online and angrily spout off about it sometimes. And that's all they do. Most of them are so removed from society, they will have zero impact on anyone's life and fade into anonymity when they die. Which probably is the real problem for them. Their biggest moment might be when the local paper runs a small announcement in the death notices asking for someone to claim their remains.

No, no one needs sex to live. They don't even need intimacy. A man or a woman can go their entire life without cuddling, without sharing a piece of cake off the same fork, without a goodbye kiss before a long trip....sure. But to mock them for being depressed about wanting it, and not having it? Their inability to articulate that feeling? To dismiss them as "fat/short/bald losers who can't get laid" or "ugly old maids" and mock them with the usual "cry me a river" insults? It's wrong and shows a total lack of empathy for the human condition. It's actually privilege if you think about it. I feel extremely lucky I have a close but wide circle of friends, figured it out about romance after the common rough years as a teen and early 20-something wondering what was "wrong" with me that things never seemed to work out, and have a great family unit. I feel pain for those who won't ever know that feeling, and there are many men and women who won't. Mocking them is cruel, and yet it seems to be the one form of bullying that's cool to the people who claim to be against bullying. Ignoring them seems to be the more prevalent choice of society, but that's heartbreaking in of itself. Shyness and social/public anxiety is a real thing, and being offended because they occasional express frustration in an inarticulate fashion in an attempt to blow off steam (verbally, not physically) is a pretty minor grievance compared to what those folks go thru daily.

[Blue_Adept]

84. Excellent post.

Definitely worthy of replies.

[boston bean]

93. Wow, I wasn't aware that all I ever discussed was penis in vagina.

No reason to read beyond that insult. Have a good one.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

94. Can't say I'm surprised.

"Worldview challenged, must bail" SOP.

[boston bean]

95. No insulting false openers make me lose interest in anything further you have to say.

I'm funny that way.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

96. Or you just can't answer anything else I said

I'll take it.

[boston bean]

98. Right, I didn't read it, so I can't answer it, nor do I want to.

[seabeyond]

115. meh... insults and jabs thru out. and a bunch of duh... but, he basically agrees, that no

one doesnt NEED sex.

there. i read it for you.

but, i do the same as you. someone gonna address me with an immediate insult, i am done. he didnt stop with just one jab though.

[redqueen]

120. I missed the other insults.

I did see insinuations that bb was mocking lonely people, which is unfounded. But unfounded accusations are pretty much SOP when some here are referring to any of us uppity feminists.

Mocking those who whine about not getting sex is fair play IMO. If their chief complaint was not having friends or just wanting a romantic relationship that's one thing. Not getting sex is something else entirely. It conveys a specific type of mindset.

[seabeyond]

122. yes. jabs. that is what i was talking about. was sure to get them in the rest

of the text.

[Schema Thing]

97. You have many good reasons to read beyond that.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

100. Don't bother

I didn't expect a substantial or relevant response, and my good buddy didn't disappoint.

[uppityperson]

112. Read the rest of it, it is worth it.

some I agree with, some I disagree with, but it is good to read it.

[Schema Thing]

99. Please post this as an OP.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

102. Maybe I will rewrite later, but it needs context nt.

[redqueen]

106. I agree with almost everything you said *after* your nonsensical dig at bb.

The fact is, she is talking about the idea of sex as a *need*.

Not physical intimacy. Not hugs and actual affection and love. Because that's not what Elliot Rodger was after. He was obsessed with the fantasy portrayal of sexually objectfied women that the media sells.

If the conversation she was having was about physical intimacy then your criticism would make sense. It isn't.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

111. I thought the conversation was beyond Elliot Rodgers?

Seeing as she didn't even mention him in the OP, I thought this was a general statement/question.

The problem is that some people don't know how to articulate that "the need for sex" is really a craving for physical intimacy. These people I'm talking about aren't even shaking hands with folks on a daily basis.

[redqueen]

114. Physical intimacy is a need. I agree with that. But that isn't romance.

A hug from a friend is physical intimacy. So is just being close to someone and knowing they actually care about you.

When people say "the need for sex" it conveys a very specific idea.

As for this being not just about the mass murderer I agree that it is, but that's what sparked the discussion and this idea that people "need" sex, raised now, is all kinds of alarming.

[redqueen]

113. And though we can sympathize with lonely hearts

it is also important to recognize the harmful nature of portraying romantic relationships and sex as being of such paramount importance that some people feel like failures without them.

The fact is many people in relationships come to find they'd actually be happier single.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

116. "Tis better to love and lost...." and all that?

Sure. And some people find out winning the lottery is a curse, or that promotion at work wasn't really an upgrade in life quality...etc. etc.

The human condition is to experience things and then make judgements as to whether you liked it or not, and if it's something you desire further. The person who got hitched and then realized it wasn't for them has experienced life. The lonely heart hasn't and feels they've missed out, and I understand that sentiment.

[redqueen]

119. True but again, the idea promoted that bb is addressing is that people need *sex*.

If the people promoting that idea didn't really mean sex it is up to them to clarify.

Based on other comments I am certain that it was not a miscommunication, and they really do mean coitus.

Not love. Not affection. Not even intimacy. Just the coitus.

[jamzrockz]

166. Thanks for writing that

I was in the rot like that Rogers kid for a long time. I also played MMO games like he did and checked out a few PUA sites(didn't help much) for advice. Most people do not know this but there is a deep shame and embarrassment associated with going into your mid 20s and up without knowing how to talk to girls. Lacking a basic skill other kids learned in high school. It reached a point where I just wanted friendship, someone to hold hands with, it took me a while and lots of help from friends but I eventually overcame my fear and have since had a few committed relationship with the opposite sex.

Nothing will justify what he did to those people but I will not join the party that dismisses a very human need as important as intimacy and love.

[LanternWaste]

54. See multiple responses in supplied link to GD post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025005574

[The_Commonist]

57. Sex is like food.

Yes, it is a necessity. We are hardwired for it. Maybe not "to live," but certainly to be healthy.

Some people, and I have known three adults who were willing to admit it, can go through their entire lives without ever having sex with another human being. Are they happy, healthy, productive members of society? One of the people I knew was, in fact healthy and productive. But he was a Bodhisattva. The other two were not. At all. It's not possible to say which came first, the unhealthiness or the life-long virginity. But I do believe they were related.

I have met other people whom I suspect had never had sex, and for whatever reason, they were not happy, healthy, productive members of society. Again, the chicken and the egg. And of course, their unhealthiness most certainly had other root causes, but were certainly exacerbated by unwanted virginity.

One can go on a diet, and not eat much or have much sex and be in great shape. One can be a total glutton for food or sex and be all fucked up. There's a very wide range of what is "normal" and "healthy" as well as a wide range of what is "unhealthy." Everyone's mileage varies.

However, I do believe that every human being, again, to be "healthy" and "well-adjusted" needs to have sex, according to whatever their specific bodily function needs are.

Obviously, this latest young man was clearly not "healthy" and "well-adjusted" and his lack of sex was not the cause of that. He was just using that as an excuse. However, my intuition and experience tells me that if he had been able to have sex with another human being on a fairly regular basis, his unhealthiness may have been less likely to cross over into mayhem. Or, of course, he may have just found a different excuse.

So, your question is: "Do people really think sex is needed to live?"
To live? No.
To be healthy? Yes.

[Dawgs]

63. GREAT POST!!! n/t

[redqueen]

70. Or he may have simply terrorized her.

That's what usually happens.

No, everyone but religious Buddhists doesn't need sex in order to be healthy.

[The_Commonist]

73. I'm not quite sure what that means...

"Or he may have simply terrorized her... That's what usually happens." I don't know where that came from or what it's referring to.

And yes, everyone... EVERYONE! including "religious Buddhists" needs to have sex ***according to their own bodily needs*** in order to be healthy and happy. And everyone's body is different.

[redqueen]

75. Really? It should be obvious.

He didn't want a girlfriend. He didn't want a woman. He wanted the sexually objectified fantasy that the media sells. If he ever somehow managed to get a woman to be involved with him, she would discover his rage first hand the minute she failed to live up to his expectations.

[MillennialDem]

86. Not according to tons of asexuals and if you want to qualify them as unhealthy individuals... that's

pretty close minded.

[The_Commonist]

91. Again, I've known 3 people over the years...

...who I knew to be asexual. One person was healthy and happy, the other 2 were not. There have been others who I suspected were asexual, and none of them was particularly healthy or happy. Was that because their asexuality was not what they wanted? or were there other underlying causes for their unhappiness? I do not know. I do know that it is certainly possible to be asexual and be healthy and happy. I just don't personally know more than one person for whom that is case. Of course, it's certainly possible, and even likely, that I've known happy and healthy people who were asexual, but that was none of my business, so I don't know for sure.

[raccoon]

92. I disagree. "but certainly to be healthy" Might be true for some people but not all. nt

[noiretextatique]

126. you don't need sex to be healthy

it contributes to health, but it is not a necessity.

[closeupready]

156. Completely agree with you.

[MillennialDem]

60. Because of some severe emotional trauma (not rape or sexual abuse) because of a bad

decision I made, I've barely had sex since 2006 and I think the actual last time was 2008 or so. I am 33 years old and the lack of sex has not killed me or even been much of a bother.

The bad decision on the other hand - has.

I am in a relationship.

[seabeyond]

118. well... i do not know what is up,

none of my business. i do want to say, that i hope things work out, whatever they are. i hate for people to go thru life, with something weighing them down.

[Dawgs]

62. Please tell us who's made this suggestion?

Other than crazy people, like Pat Robertson, who has said that people need sex to live?

By the way, sex is a great, and very natural, thing. It's okay if people want to participate in it.

[arely staircase]

71. well if everyone stopped doing it

The species would be extinct in about a century.

[MillennialDem]

74. But that wouldn't matter for those of us alive today, other than people signed up for cryonics.

[arely staircase]

80. I am not sure world wide chastity or cryonics are particularly practical nt

[MillennialDem]

81. I never said they were, just that propagation of the species is not required. You don't get a 5 year

extension on life for every kid you have.

[gollygee]

79. It is necessary that at least some people have sex for the species to continue

However individuals can survive without sex. No one has to have sex, because having to have sex - believing it's an actual necessity - means people deserve it and the world isn't fair unless they have it, which means that someone else is obligated to provide it. No one is obligated to give any other individual sex, and no one is entitled to someone else's body.

Now of course people tend to couple, and people tend to create relationships that include sex, and as a married person I will say my life is greatly improved because of my relationship with my husband. However, I am not owed a husband by the universe, by men in general, or at all. It was not a necessity. Food and water are necessities but sex is not.

[Zorra]

76. Some people probably do, just like some people think LGBT caused Hurricane Katrina,

Elvis is still alive, and the Virgin Mary appeared to them in a grilled cheese sandwich.

[Puzzledtraveller]

82. That's what I was saying with my first reply, reply#2

Somehow it went completely over a few peoples heads.

[Zorra]

103. Yeh, ideas don't need to have any basis in fact or common reality in

order for ignorant people to think they are facts.

Five minutes of political conversation with a religious conservative makes this obvious to any critical thinker.

[Maedhros]

89. I think it's more helpful to consider that the sex drive is perhaps the strongest we have,

rather than framing sex as a need.

We're hardwired to procreate since, from an evolutionary perspective, the sole measure of our success as individuals is the passing of our genes to viable offspring. Were we simple animals, we would simply follow this instinct with little regard for how we go about it.

But we're not simple - we have evolved brains that came up with things like ethics and compassion. We have it within ourselves to control our instinctual drives, certainly not completely but easily enough to participate in civilized society. Justifying any kind of crime with the idea that we were driven to it by our biological needs is ridiculous.

[TDale313]

104. Nope.

It's a strong drive, but not needed to live.

[riqster]

109. Having done without shelter and food in my past,

I'd say sex is not required for existence.

For some people I know, it is very important. But it is not important enough to kill over.

[IronLionZion]

117. Who decides what someone needs?

People could live on very little, like the bare minimum nutrition and water and medicine like what they give patients on life support. I doubt very many would be happy with that arrangement. Some spiritual folks could also ask if anyone even needs life to live? Their spirit could live on after their body dies.

Rodger bet his future on winning the mega jackpot lottery recently and was running around screaming and throwing fits when he didn't win. He decided that was the last chance, so he had to go forward with his diabolical plans for retribution.

I would be very wary of anyone who purports to know what someone else needs or doesn't need. GOP feels no one needs health care (care, not just insurance). There was a time when many in power felt women didn't need to vote and people of color needed to be enslaved.

I was in love with and wanted to marry a girlfriend who turned out to be a sex addict and an alcoholic, along with other issues. In her mind she "needed" sex and had to have it as much as possible. Just like she "needed" to carry white wine in her water bottle. And she "needed" to lie constantly about everything, and she didn't "need" to use condoms or inform her partners that she has lots and lots of partners. She felt it was necessary to her survival.

The need to feel loved or wanted is essential to some. Or to feel like one has some purpose in life. There are people who would take their own lives if they didn't have that. Its very easy for a third party to scoff and think that person doesn't really need it.

[redqueen]

123. You said your ex was a sex addict.

You said that "in her mind" she needed it. Your prefacing that idea with "in her mind" makes all the difference in the world.

She didn't really need it and you know this.

Sex is simply not a "need" no matter how much word smithing is done.

[Maedhros]

128. One's self-imagined "need" for sex certainly informs how they behave.

Clearly Rodgers felt his "needs" weren't being met, and he lashed out. Understanding this is important for addressing the next time (and the next time, and the next time) this happens. By no means does this justify tragedies like Isla Vista, but as a society we need to get a handle on how individuals end up this twisted.

Myself, I think the constant conditioning we receive from mass marketing is a big part of it. Rape culture indoctrination from an early age.

[redqueen]

131. Agreed, but some here are outright stating that sex is a need. Full stop.

And that idea cannot be left unchallenged.

[Maedhros]

135. No matter how we try, we cannot escape our biological needs:

Food, water, air to breathe, etc. If we don't have these, we die. Period.

We can overcome our psychological needs through education, socialization, even therapy. An uncontrolled psychological need for sex is a pathology, not a trait of nature. I'd say there is ample evidence that Rodgers developed a pathological hatred of women based upon his psychological need for sex being unfulfilled.

We need to address the elements of our culture that create a pathological need for sex. I suspect a significant factor is mass media, which bombards us with sexual imagery and seeks to impose sexual "norms" that really aren't.

[IronLionZion]

136. Perception creates our reality

believing it makes it so. Sure a third party can easily say one doesn't need something to survive. It's a psychological need, not a biological need.

[Rex]

124. It is a want, not a need.

OTOH, the urge to want something bad enough can drive some into a dangerous mental state. This is about three key issues - mental illness, easy access to a gun and easy harmless targets that had no chance.

Murder is murder, I don't buy the bullshit about sex drive being a need to murder someone. Sorry, sex it is a want not a need.

[Shandris]

125. Define 'live'.

It isn't required to continue to draw breath, no. Neither is human contact of any kind, yet we were up in arms when they keep a prisoner in solitary for a 'cruel and unusual' amount of time and rightly so.

So...define live.

I contend that to have a life worth living, then yes...it is a requirement except in instances of people who, for whatever reason, don't have the desire for it (asexuals). Just as there are people who can go without human contact for huge periods of time however, they don't disprove the rule. Rather, they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

However, I should point out that this intimacy can be faked rather easily, and will be able to be done more easily so in the future with robotics and VR programming. IOW...it's an interesting question, but one that won't be germane too much longer.

Edit: On the off-chance someone is silly enough to somehow read a defense in my post, don't. There is a far cry difference between sex and 'sex with this person or tiny subset of people who I explicitly choose', and there are various ways of accomplishing it other than 'girlfriend/boyfriend'. This should be obvious.

[TheKentuckian]

127. Air, water, food, compatible climate/shelter level need? No, but we are talking major quality of

life stuff for sure.

[alphafemale]

129. It is essential part of happiness for many of us.

Not to say your reality is wrong if you have a low or non-existent sex drive.

In the range of human sexuality there is no right or wrong so long as you don't do something to someone without their consent.

I could also live without music.

I could live without ever seeing a beautiful work of art.

Or a sunset for that matter.

I could live without seeing a movie or reading a story that stirred me to the core of my being.

I could live without hearing a child laugh.

I could live without feeling the love of an animal.

I don't want to.

Life would be less LIFE without these things for me.

[seabeyond]

132. this is a good post. and some have no desire to ever read a good book or sit outside

and absorb a beautiful sunset.

you explained it the best though. i like

[cali]

134. then you make it more.

surely you aren't saying that Helen Keller's life was less because she couldn't see or hear? Life is about dealing with challenges and setbacks and still loving one's life. At least to me.

[alphafemale]

137. You really think Helen Keller wouldn't have rathered to speak hear and see?

yeah

[cali]

147. I can't say. Neither can you. I can tell you this

I had a terrible accident almost 3 years ago resulting in some bad stuff- Complex Regional Pain Syndrome and traumatic arthritis. No, I wouldn't change it. I've learned a lot and grown a lot. I was abused as a kid. No, I wouldn't change it. I am who I am as a result of things both good and bad.

[IronLionZion]

139. That was very nicely put. +1! nt

[boston bean]

144. What reality do you think pertains to me, personally? Please answer this question.

Assumptions around here sure are something. Why would that be pertinent to the questions asked in the OP?

[alphafemale]

167. Your reality is your reality.

As I stated. So long as you are not hurting anyone? Fine.

But sex is a fantastic thing for many people.

Don't mock it.

[seabeyond]

172. no one mocks sex. we do demand that others not use it as a weapon against us. surely that is allowed

[LadyHawkAZ]

130. It's not necessary for *survival*

but survival and life (particularly if we're talking "quality of&quot are two different things.

[rug]

140. Rather pointless without it.

[boston bean]

142. what is pointless without it? Life?

[rug]

143. Ultimately.

[boston bean]

145. Really? ok.

Unless you are speaking of procreation, which is not the topic of this OP. Please expound.

[lumberjack_jeff]

141. That's not the question.

The question is whether it's a need, and it is.

[Nevernose]

148. I was going to post the same chart

When I got home.

+1

[GeorgeGist]

146. Other than the survival of the species ...

sex is not a need.

[Nevernose]

149. I think we all have the right to love and be loved

But I also think rights can be waived.

I read this guy's manifesto, all 140 page. If this guy did, indeed, ever have a right to be loved, he forfeited that right years ago. As if the racism and misogyny weren't enough, this guy was filled to the brim with jealousy, narcissism, rage, and self-pity, and had been for a very long time. He viewed himself as superior to every other human and was enraged whenever he thought he wasn't given his due, which was all the time, because he thought that he was too good to actually communicate with other people. They were supposed to just know that he was superior and therefore be attracted.

So saying that sex is a legitimate human need doesn't mean that anyone was under any obligation to give it to him, nor does it excuse his actions. In fact, he was a gigantic asshole well before he ever bought a gun.

[AgingAmerican]

150. Elliot Rodger didn't think so

According to his so-called manifesto, he wanted to eliminate sex...and the love that accompanies it. He stated that humanity would finally reach it's potential without it. But then he was completely nuts too....

[rrneck]

152. Do you think sex is necessary for the survival of a species that reproduces sexually? nt

[boston bean]

153. Yeah, I do. I'm not some dolt.

[rrneck]

154. I'm sure you're not.

So what's the difference between your question and mine?

[boston bean]

155. You don't see a difference? Ok...

re-read again and tell me where the confusion lies.

[rrneck]

157. The difference is quite obvious.

And if you see it, why did you post this OP?

[boston bean]

160. huh? go play someplace else. I'm busy right now. nt

[rrneck]

161. Busy doing what?

Busted again.

[closeupready]

158. It's a need for good mental health. As others have pointed out,

one can eat junk food and survive. One can live in solitary confinement and survive.

But one's health suffers.

[bigwillq]

159. I don't sex to live. I live to sex.

[Scout]

162. Asexuals tell their stories

http://cnnphotos.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/27/asexuals-tell-their-stories/?hpt=hp_bn14

some very interesting individuals here.

[miyazaki]

163. They have a vacant and lost look about them

It's not too late for some of them to get laid. There's some people here
that probably need to get laid also. The condition is poignant enough to say
that this is something that helps define their lives, and not in a good way.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

164. Merely a photographer's editorial choice.

Would you have come to the same conclusions about the subjects of the images has been of them laughing or smiling? How do you know there weren't such images taken by the photographer and that she chose not to publish them? Perhaps being faced daily with the deeply ignorant attitude of "they just really need to get laid" could be the real problem that has defined their lives negatively.

[joeglow3]

165. "Sex is a waste of time"

That comment by the 11th individual seemed odd to me.