Wed May 28, 2014, 01:23 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
Suppose an outside group wanted to render DU ineffective
As we move towards the 2014 and 2016 elections, what if Republicans or Third-Wayers wanted to neutralize DU as an active, motivated hotbed of FDR Liberalism.
What strategy might they employ? What should we look out for?
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122 replies, 6331 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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MannyGoldstein | May 2014 | OP |
MADem | May 2014 | #1 | |
MannyGoldstein | May 2014 | #2 | |
MADem | May 2014 | #31 | |
sufrommich | May 2014 | #36 | |
RobertEarl | May 2014 | #44 | |
Capt. Obvious | May 2014 | #5 | |
MADem | May 2014 | #16 | |
onehandle | May 2014 | #3 | |
Nye Bevan | May 2014 | #4 | |
PeaceNikki | May 2014 | #7 | |
MADem | May 2014 | #22 | |
Whisp | May 2014 | #97 | |
MADem | May 2014 | #102 | |
Maedhros | May 2014 | #35 | |
Armstead | May 2014 | #38 | |
GeorgeGist | May 2014 | #6 | |
Lancero | May 2014 | #8 | |
bettyellen | May 2014 | #14 | |
Voice for Peace | May 2014 | #37 | |
bettyellen | May 2014 | #42 | |
Voice for Peace | May 2014 | #105 | |
bettyellen | May 2014 | #106 | |
yallerdawg | May 2014 | #58 | |
Jamastiene | May 2014 | #71 | |
yallerdawg | May 2014 | #75 | |
Jamastiene | May 2014 | #83 | |
Katashi_itto | May 2014 | #59 | |
TreasonousBastard | May 2014 | #9 | |
Ikonoklast | May 2014 | #88 | |
TreasonousBastard | May 2014 | #107 | |
Cali_Democrat | May 2014 | #10 | |
brooklynite | May 2014 | #18 | |
Cali_Democrat | May 2014 | #33 | |
bettyellen | May 2014 | #43 | |
1000words | May 2014 | #11 | |
Katashi_itto | May 2014 | #17 | |
Armstead | May 2014 | #39 | |
1000words | May 2014 | #64 | |
Jamastiene | May 2014 | #73 | |
1000words | May 2014 | #84 | |
Warpy | May 2014 | #12 | |
bettyellen | May 2014 | #13 | |
closeupready | May 2014 | #15 | |
Skidmore | May 2014 | #19 | |
Lee-Lee | May 2014 | #20 | |
seabeyond | May 2014 | #24 | |
octoberlib | May 2014 | #27 | |
MADem | May 2014 | #28 | |
Rex | May 2014 | #113 | |
Starry Messenger | May 2014 | #21 | |
seabeyond | May 2014 | #23 | |
Post removed | May 2014 | #48 | |
seabeyond | May 2014 | #51 | |
Gormy Cuss | May 2014 | #72 | |
seabeyond | May 2014 | #82 | |
BuelahWitch | May 2014 | #25 | |
Puzzledtraveller | May 2014 | #26 | |
jberryhill | May 2014 | #29 | |
gollygee | May 2014 | #30 | |
aikoaiko | May 2014 | #32 | |
closeupready | May 2014 | #62 | |
pa28 | May 2014 | #34 | |
Skidmore | May 2014 | #40 | |
BuelahWitch | May 2014 | #47 | |
Vattel | May 2014 | #41 | |
blue neen | May 2014 | #45 | |
Zorra | May 2014 | #46 | |
bigtree | May 2014 | #49 | |
FSogol | May 2014 | #55 | |
msanthrope | May 2014 | #65 | |
Number23 | May 2014 | #114 | |
DanM | May 2014 | #50 | |
closeupready | May 2014 | #63 | |
defacto7 | May 2014 | #52 | |
Iggo | May 2014 | #53 | |
tridim | May 2014 | #54 | |
zappaman | May 2014 | #78 | |
TygrBright | May 2014 | #56 | |
Tierra_y_Libertad | May 2014 | #57 | |
Squinch | May 2014 | #60 | |
SidDithers | May 2014 | #76 | |
likesmountains 52 | May 2014 | #110 | |
Number23 | May 2014 | #116 | |
Rex | May 2014 | #61 | |
Autumn | May 2014 | #100 | |
Rex | May 2014 | #112 | |
msanthrope | May 2014 | #66 | |
bettyellen | May 2014 | #85 | |
msanthrope | May 2014 | #103 | |
Number23 | May 2014 | #117 | |
davidpdx | May 2014 | #118 | |
msanthrope | May 2014 | #121 | |
winter is coming | May 2014 | #67 | |
greatauntoftriplets | May 2014 | #79 | |
winter is coming | May 2014 | #80 | |
greatauntoftriplets | May 2014 | #81 | |
Jamastiene | May 2014 | #68 | |
yellowcanine | May 2014 | #69 | |
SidDithers | May 2014 | #70 | |
whatchamacallit | May 2014 | #91 | |
Bobbie Jo | May 2014 | #94 | |
Avalux | May 2014 | #74 | |
FreakinDJ | May 2014 | #77 | |
Autumn | May 2014 | #86 | |
Puglover | May 2014 | #89 | |
Union Scribe | May 2014 | #96 | |
applegrove | May 2014 | #87 | |
spanone | May 2014 | #90 | |
struggle4progress | May 2014 | #92 | |
MannyGoldstein | May 2014 | #95 | |
struggle4progress | May 2014 | #98 | |
MannyGoldstein | May 2014 | #109 | |
NuclearDem | May 2014 | #93 | |
Shandris | May 2014 | #99 | |
hrmjustin | May 2014 | #101 | |
nadinbrzezinski | May 2014 | #104 | |
11 Bravo | May 2014 | #108 | |
Skip Intro | May 2014 | #111 | |
Recursion | May 2014 | #115 | |
davidpdx | May 2014 | #119 | |
Savannahmann | May 2014 | #120 | |
Scuba | May 2014 | #122 |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:25 PM
MADem (135,425 posts)
1. Why do you want to know this? And why would anyone offer up a blueprint here?
This is a disruptive topic, IMO.
Like a guard dog, leading the way to the family silver... ![]() |
Response to MADem (Reply #1)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:26 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
2. What should we be on the lookout for? nt
Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:42 PM
MADem (135,425 posts)
31. You already know, Manny! You already know.
No one here can teach you a thing!
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:49 PM
sufrommich (22,871 posts)
36. You should be on the lookout for over stating
the importance of a relatively small forum like DU because it makes some feel important. Nobody is here diabolically planning to use DU to change the course of history. That's as egotistical as those who believe that their beliefs are so right that surely those who disagree are getting paid to do so.
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Response to sufrommich (Reply #36)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:23 PM
RobertEarl (13,685 posts)
44. DU is an agent of change
The internet, which DU is a part of has created much change already. To deny it has or to infer that it hasn't, in itself creates suspicion. <grin>
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Response to MADem (Reply #1)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:26 PM
Capt. Obvious (9,002 posts)
5. Thank you for your concern
Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #5)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:34 PM
MADem (135,425 posts)
16. And thank YOU for yours....
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:26 PM
onehandle (51,122 posts)
3. They've been here since day one. nt
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:26 PM
Nye Bevan (25,406 posts)
4. "Both parties are the same". "No point in voting".
"They're all corporatists, Republicans and Democrats alike". etc.
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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #4)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:28 PM
PeaceNikki (27,985 posts)
7. It's rare that I agree with you, but here it is.
The elections are all stolen lines bother me, too. I am in WI and was heavily involved in our infamous Supreme Court recount a few years ago. As such, I am hypersensitive to these.
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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #4)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:37 PM
MADem (135,425 posts)
22. Gee, those sound familiar...
As do "So-and-so isn't progressive enough!" and "Let's spend all our time, money and energy trying to get someone who won't have a prayer to win the nomination on the ballot! You know, just because ... principle and stuff! Yeah--I'm a better progressive than anyone here!!!! Go down swinging!!!"
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Response to MADem (Reply #22)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:19 PM
Whisp (24,096 posts)
97. Scorched Earth is still my favourite.
Let everything fail, the automotive industry, wall street, banks, let it all burn down to the ground and we can rebuild into Utopia.
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Response to Whisp (Reply #97)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:42 PM
MADem (135,425 posts)
102. Tear it all down! Fight the power, man!!!
Yes, it's so ... naive!
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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #4)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:47 PM
Maedhros (10,007 posts)
35. I don't think that's what the Third Way would do.
The Third Way is all about the rah-rah-rah-we're-better-than-THEM because reasons.
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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #4)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:54 PM
Armstead (47,803 posts)
38. Oh I think any disruptive effort would be more like....
"If you are not 100 percent happy with the state of the nation and the Democratic Party, then just be quiet and sit down. All we want is rah,rah, rah, everything is perfect."
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:27 PM
GeorgeGist (25,108 posts)
6. What do they always do?
Buy it.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:29 PM
Lancero (2,724 posts)
8. Spamming up GD with meaningless pets posts for one.
Response to Lancero (Reply #8)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:32 PM
bettyellen (47,209 posts)
14. those ducks crossing the street piss me off.
Response to bettyellen (Reply #14)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:53 PM
Voice for Peace (13,141 posts)
37. and those annoying baby bears in the dumpster
Response to Voice for Peace (Reply #37)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:00 PM
bettyellen (47,209 posts)
42. Link?
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #42)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:49 PM
Voice for Peace (13,141 posts)
105. as you can see it's been covered extensively: ladder rescues, momma bear rescues, ranger rescues
Response to Voice for Peace (Reply #105)
Wed May 28, 2014, 06:48 PM
bettyellen (47,209 posts)
106. LOL, thank you! And I concur they are a threat to democracy!
Response to Lancero (Reply #8)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:06 PM
yallerdawg (16,104 posts)
58. And cats, cats, cats!
Google cat poo and deep-brain parasites -- maybe they can't help themselves.
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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #58)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:42 PM
Jamastiene (38,174 posts)
71. Toxoplasmosis
It makes mice walk right up to cats like little zombies being controlled by zillions of little diabolical parasites in their brain...because that's what is really happening, in a way.
I'm pretty sure I have it too, because I tend to walk right up to cats too...and pet them...and laugh at their shenanigans. I love shenanigans! I especially love cat shenanigans and kitten shenanigans are like chocolate. I can never get enough. I'm pretty sure I have it too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis |
Response to Jamastiene (Reply #71)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:53 PM
yallerdawg (16,104 posts)
75. I've heard they even created an alternate complete cat Bible!
And attract humans to their biblical cause with repeated use of the word "cheeseburger."
Would we recognize this as an insidious infiltration here at Democratic Underground? Or are too many infected? |
Response to yallerdawg (Reply #75)
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:02 PM
Jamastiene (38,174 posts)
83. Considering how popular and influential the cat overlords are on DU,
I think it is highly likely the vast majority are already infected. The parasites may even be mutating into a DU variant that is impossible to treat, much less cure. I've never seen a web site or message board so full of people that love cats as much as DU. I think we have a specialized strain of mutated toxoplasmosis on DU.
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Response to Lancero (Reply #8)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:09 PM
Katashi_itto (10,175 posts)
59. Yes. The pet posts obviously have destroyed DU as we knew it. Not the fanatics.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:29 PM
TreasonousBastard (41,872 posts)
9. Ineffective at what?
Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #9)
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:25 PM
Ikonoklast (23,973 posts)
88. Ask the next thousand...no, *ten* thousand people if they've ever even heard of DU.
There's your answer.
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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #88)
Wed May 28, 2014, 07:51 PM
TreasonousBastard (41,872 posts)
107. Already asked our local Democratic committee...
guess what they said...
BTW, I ran for office last year. A few other DUers did too, and we mentioned it here. A couple of Attaboys for each of us and that was about it. I know there are people living close by but did any offer to help? Didn't see much real support for anyone else either. (But, one forbidden word or misplaced comma and you'll be famous, sparking a 300 post thread...) |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:29 PM
Cali_Democrat (30,439 posts)
10. They would probably attack a sitting Democratic president as relentlessly as they could. nt
Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #10)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:34 PM
brooklynite (84,353 posts)
18. Also beat up a prospective Presidential nominee and say they'd never vote for him/her....
Response to brooklynite (Reply #18)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:43 PM
Cali_Democrat (30,439 posts)
33. Yep....and they'd say that they'd rather overturn the election of Obama than the election of Reagan:
Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #33)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:17 PM
bettyellen (47,209 posts)
43. because the supreme court matters more to those SJWs and men care about money more!
I learned this at DU.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:30 PM
1000words (7,051 posts)
11. Keep introducing divisive issues and watch us tear each other apart.
Same way it's done at the macro-level.
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Response to 1000words (Reply #11)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:55 PM
Armstead (47,803 posts)
39. And what would be a divisive issue?
Response to Armstead (Reply #39)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:28 PM
1000words (7,051 posts)
64. When DU has meltdowns over pitbulls, Olive Garden etc. ...
Just about anything goes. Next week it'll be something entirely new.
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Response to 1000words (Reply #64)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:47 PM
Jamastiene (38,174 posts)
73. I'll never forget the corn flake chicken wars.
I agreed with ZombieWoof about the corn flakes. People who tried that in the south would be forever mocked.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x961628 |
Response to Jamastiene (Reply #73)
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:08 PM
1000words (7,051 posts)
84. OMG!
I always thought the "corn flake -- chicken" references in the trash word feature were chosen randomly.
![]() DU is a funny place. And yes, ZombieWoof won the thread. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:31 PM
Warpy (105,701 posts)
12. Look how women are being treated
On several threads today, the first post was by some patriarch who tried to shut the poster down immediately.
They'll be doing that and more as time goes on. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:31 PM
bettyellen (47,209 posts)
13. Ratfuckers, and oh yeah... SJWs LOL.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:34 PM
closeupready (29,503 posts)
15. While we're all fans, this website is really not that important.
Seriously.
On the other hand, when people pay dog walkers thousands of dollar per year, you know that sometimes people who've gotten rich too quick are the same ones who spend it like crazy, on all kinds of fantasy projects. These are the kinds of people who are targeted by get-rich-quick con men, and I wouldn't be half surprised to discover that many of the people who come here to disrupt have convinced Republican internet millionaires to pay them a decent sum to do nothing more than be trolls here. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:34 PM
Skidmore (37,364 posts)
19. Funny. I've often thought that the most effective way would
be for a group said individuals to come in and start accusing long time members of being anything but liberal and being DLCers and what have you, issue bogus alerts, start arguments, foment discord, and stack juries to get people expelled. But, hey, that's just what crossed my mind many times and who am I to question?
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:35 PM
Lee-Lee (6,324 posts)
20. Do you really think anyone into issues enough to post on a political forum
Would be kept away from voting by anything on it?
What, maybe 1% of registered Democrats post anything at all online about politics and join a forum? You think anything posted on a forum would discourage the most motivated members of the party? Far more dangerous are the efforts aimed at the much less informed and active. |
Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #20)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:38 PM
seabeyond (110,159 posts)
24. bingo. so. i guess, we do not have to be afraid. i agree. nt
Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #20)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:39 PM
octoberlib (14,934 posts)
27. /\ THIS /\ nt
Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #20)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:40 PM
MADem (135,425 posts)
28. I drive older voters to the polls.
Most of them are reliable voters--they vote in state and local elections, too.
Most of them are NOT online at all, and the ones who are online use it for "email" and grandchildren pictures/videos. A rare few are Brave Skypers. So your points are very salient. |
Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #20)
Thu May 29, 2014, 12:33 AM
Rex (65,616 posts)
113. Yeah that is true, BUT you see DU is very important when it fits the narrative
and non existent when it doesn't. Old fight really, I think most of the big persona's post here to get on each others nerves. TO get a reply that they wanted. And yes, most of it negative.
I think this place motivates a small majority of people that are politically active, which sadly is a very small amount of the American population. At least some people on DU are politically active, far better then the standard American that forgets to vote. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:35 PM
Starry Messenger (32,335 posts)
21. They'd let in a bunch of right-wing racist and sexist trolls
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:37 PM
seabeyond (110,159 posts)
23. creatively clever ways telling women to shut up, by suggesting it is outside forces.....
trying to stop du dems from talking about the issue that scares them so???
oh manny. so predictable. as a multi tasking woman, i so know we will be able to recognize, and handle more than one issue at a time. and well focused. that i am sure. |
Response to seabeyond (Reply #23)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #48)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:48 PM
seabeyond (110,159 posts)
51. ah. ya see. chooky the thing? start with a nasty "vicitm" insult and i am done reading.
what a waste of your trolling time.
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Response to seabeyond (Reply #51)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:47 PM
Gormy Cuss (30,884 posts)
72. Two of seven jurors thought we should just engage the bigot.
I LOVE the jury system!!11!!
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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #72)
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:01 PM
seabeyond (110,159 posts)
82. truly,
i am surprised as shit my post wasnt hid for actually using the word troll.
wonders never end ah. to be fair. i get away with as much as i get pinned on. it is all on who is sittin on the jury. the right people, it could be a nothing post and it gets a hide. thanks gormy. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:38 PM
BuelahWitch (9,083 posts)
25. 1.Hi-jack liberal leaning threads by making detrimental assertions about the OP
2. Whine that liberals aren't electable
3. Demand "Our way or the highway" 4. Stalk and alert on liberal posters for stupid reasons to try and silence them. 5. Yell "She (He) isn't running!" in discussions about possible liberal candidates. All I can think of at the moment. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:39 PM
Puzzledtraveller (5,937 posts)
26. Misogyny, Benghazi!
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:40 PM
jberryhill (62,444 posts)
29. They would sow suspicions among DUers
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:41 PM
gollygee (22,336 posts)
30. Set up a dichotomy between "Democrats" and "REAL Democrats"
and then bitch and moan as often as possible about Democratic leaders.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:42 PM
aikoaiko (33,166 posts)
32. First identify the concern trolls on this issue.
Response to aikoaiko (Reply #32)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:22 PM
closeupready (29,503 posts)
62. Umm, see, I'm concerned about your reaction here.
Highly.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:43 PM
pa28 (6,145 posts)
34. We already know interest groups hire trolls to populate key discussion groups.
The kinds of strategies they employ are not a secret either.
The Gentleperson's Guide to Forum Spies http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/22/1112509/-The-Gentleperson-s-Guide-to-Forum-Spies 4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.
5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues. 12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues. 19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance. Lots more at the link. Many of them seem vaguely familiar. |
Response to pa28 (Reply #34)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:55 PM
Skidmore (37,364 posts)
40. Wow! Thanks for that link.
Bookmarked.
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Response to pa28 (Reply #34)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:34 PM
BuelahWitch (9,083 posts)
47. Thank you! n/t
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:58 PM
Vattel (9,289 posts)
41. Relentless smearing of anyone who opposes them or their agenda or their candidates.
Other posters then waste time and energy answering the smears. I know I waste a lot of time pointing out smears. It is such low and despicable behavior that it is hard not to respond to it.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:27 PM
blue neen (12,007 posts)
45. What a comical post!
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:30 PM
Zorra (27,670 posts)
46. Using propaganda techniques for one thing.
Recognizing Propaganda Techniques and Errors of Faulty Logic
Propaganda and Debating Techniques The main similarity between Republican and Third Way conservative trolls. IMO, is that they both support laissez faire capitalism. They might not express this directly, but sometimes it's what someone never says that reveals their agenda. But this does not mean Third Way/Republican trolls won't bald faced lie about their real beliefs if it becomes necessary. The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political, and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers....
http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html Corporatists will slowly try to move the Democratic party to the right, knowing that naive Dems won't even notice how far right we've moved. "Democrats moving to the middle is a double disaster that alienates the party's progressive base while simultaneously sending a message to swing voters that the other side is where the good ideas are.' It unconsciously locks in the notion that the other side's positions are worth moving toward, while your side's positions are the ones to move away from. Plus every time you move to the center, the right just moves further to the right." ~ George Lakoff
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:39 PM
bigtree (82,310 posts)
49. they might start by rhetorically separating Dems into fictional, contrived groups
like labeling those they disagree with as 'third way' . . . and using their republican-originated wedge politics to divide or suppress our Democratic vote in November.
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Response to bigtree (Reply #49)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:02 PM
FSogol (43,517 posts)
55. Or picking a candidate that isn't running and promote them as the only pure choice...
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Response to FSogol (Reply #55)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:30 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
65. Same gender or race non-candidate of the front runner, to be most effective. nt
Response to FSogol (Reply #55)
Thu May 29, 2014, 02:36 AM
Number23 (24,544 posts)
114. Nailed it. But not before creating a non-existent "schism" between the candidate that isn't running
and other party leaders.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:47 PM
DanM (341 posts)
50. DU is effective?
If that reply title got yer britches in a wad, hold on. Let me explain. I use and love DU for many reasons. But let's be honest and not kid ourselves . . . DU is not effective in the sense I and most others read the OP. Politically. It's frustrating, but it's just not.
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Response to DanM (Reply #50)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:24 PM
closeupready (29,503 posts)
63. +1. That may sadden some, but while it's fun to come here and
talk amongst likeminded Democrats and liberals, it's just a glorified chat room.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:50 PM
defacto7 (13,485 posts)
52. Divide and conquer. n/t
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:53 PM
Iggo (46,278 posts)
53. I made up this new thing called "Divide and Conquer."
Send me a SASE and I'll send you my newsletter.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:59 PM
tridim (45,358 posts)
54. Look out for people who use PR buzzwords like "third wayers" in an attempt to divide Democrats. nt
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:03 PM
TygrBright (20,039 posts)
56. Other than "provoking discussion and raising blood pressure" what is...
...DU currently "effective" at?
And if DU is genuinely effective at something that has real importance in the process of citizen participation in the self-governance of a democratic republic, it would almost by definition have to be related to "discussion," since that is what we do, here. In such case, the answer to your question might lie in looking at ways to either shut down the website by making it economically non-viable for the owners, or in shutting down discussion altogether, by... ...what? Mass resignations? Outrage, controversy and disagreement do not shut down discussion, they provoke more of it. The quality, of course, degrades greatly. We are always walking that line, and seem to have successfully managed to negotiate it in 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, and 2012. What has changed that might make it less negotiable in 2014 and 2016? curiously, Bright |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:06 PM
Tierra_y_Libertad (50,414 posts)
57. Render it into just another arm of the Democratic Party.
Made up of Politics as Usual Yes Men.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:12 PM
Squinch (46,326 posts)
60. You.
Or at least multiple thinly veiled posts making fun of the concerns and positions of large swaths of Democratic voters.
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Response to Squinch (Reply #60)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:54 PM
SidDithers (44,228 posts)
76. +1...nt
Sid
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Response to Squinch (Reply #60)
Wed May 28, 2014, 08:37 PM
likesmountains 52 (3,981 posts)
110. Yup, you got that right.
Response to Squinch (Reply #60)
Thu May 29, 2014, 02:38 AM
Number23 (24,544 posts)
116. You didn't just win this thread, you won this forum.
![]() ![]() Sorry for such crappy prizes. ![]() |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:19 PM
Rex (65,616 posts)
61. We see it almost daily. Thankfully they are just pests at this point.
Third-Wayers/Repukes that pretend DU is an anti-Obama/anti-democratic website and complain that this place blows chunks compared to what it was, ie they try their best to persuade new DUers to take a hike. They love to hate this place and the people that post here...yet somehow are the MOSTEST liberal, dem etc.. really funny watching them fake it.
Of course there is nothing wrong with DU, but you wouldn't know that according to the handful of people that love to hate this place. |
Response to Rex (Reply #61)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:37 PM
Autumn (42,279 posts)
100. So true Rex, and I find it so funny that
the ones that really hate this place and always talk about how DU is nothing are always on MIRT and hosting. I made a comment once, I think my first term in MIRT about how I always come to DU to learn the truth about anything big that is going on and she says you won't learn the truth here. I was like
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Response to Autumn (Reply #100)
Thu May 29, 2014, 12:27 AM
Rex (65,616 posts)
112. Yeah I've never seen this place not have great news in LBN or great topics in GD.
These huge wars and lists of people that shouldn't be here were beyond ridiculous and thankfully didn't run too many people off. You can learn a huge amount here if you pay attention. The rest is drama between warring factions that forgot why they hated each other back on DU2 or DU1.
I want the news, I get it from this site now. Bartcop RHS, is no more and Mike Malloy looks like he is really tired of talking about political bullshit. Got to come here to get the objective view, with lots of people chiming in, it really makes information easier to believe or dismiss. I don't care how many people boo hoo this place. They can now go play with the Repukes on the new forum, the admins gave them a new place to hone their never ending fighting skills. We can stay here and share information. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:31 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
66. Relentlessly push disaffected/Libertarian white, overprivileged males as the example we should
all follow.
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Response to msanthrope (Reply #66)
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:14 PM
bettyellen (47,209 posts)
85. OUCH, that's going to hurt someone's outsized sense of entitlement...
As well it should!
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #85)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:43 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
103. I hope it does. nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #66)
Thu May 29, 2014, 02:41 AM
Number23 (24,544 posts)
117. DAYUM!!! This thread is now officially bookmarkable.
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Response to Number23 (Reply #117)
Thu May 29, 2014, 05:32 AM
davidpdx (22,000 posts)
118. The video you posted makes it bookmarkable
Ledger at his best....
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Response to Number23 (Reply #117)
Thu May 29, 2014, 05:45 AM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
121. Many thanks! nt
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:31 PM
winter is coming (11,785 posts)
67. DU's effective?
How did that happen? When did that happen?
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Response to winter is coming (Reply #67)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:56 PM
greatauntoftriplets (174,211 posts)
79. Damnit to hell!
You stole my line.
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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #79)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:57 PM
winter is coming (11,785 posts)
80. I'm sure you'll come up with something even better. n/t
Response to winter is coming (Reply #80)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:59 PM
greatauntoftriplets (174,211 posts)
81. That was it!
It's a good line, though, and the truth.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:38 PM
Jamastiene (38,174 posts)
68. I'm not so sure this is a good idea.
Think about it. If anyone comes up with an idea that would actually work, I wouldn't put it past an outside group to actually do it.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:42 PM
yellowcanine (35,482 posts)
69. Can't answer the question - all the more reason to: DEPLOY THE TINFOIL HATS NOW!
Better safe than sorry.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:42 PM
SidDithers (44,228 posts)
70. They would pretend to be liberals...
and do nothing but attack Democrats "from the left".
Sid |
Response to SidDithers (Reply #70)
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:42 PM
whatchamacallit (15,558 posts)
91. Or they might pretend to be liberals
and do nothing but attack the left. Or they might even pretend to be Americans.
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Response to SidDithers (Reply #70)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:12 PM
Bobbie Jo (14,341 posts)
94. Oh....you Better Believe It! *
*Actual disruptor and "respected DU'er."
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:47 PM
Avalux (35,015 posts)
74. They've tried many, many times before Manny. You've been here long enough to know that.
I remember trolls who posted on DU for years, pretending to be progressive, then when the time was right, they would go nuts. The most insidious are those who are clever enough to not really violate the rules; very passive aggressive.
There are also paid operatives who show up here with an agenda, but those are usually fettered out eventually. DU is actually fairly good at self-regulating. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:55 PM
FreakinDJ (17,644 posts)
77. They already did
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:15 PM
Autumn (42,279 posts)
86. Someone who goes around trashing Democrats like this,
"Anybody who says they will not vote for the democratic nominee, regardless of whom that nominee eventually is, is a total and complete fucking moron."
that would be my guess ![]() |
Response to Autumn (Reply #86)
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:38 PM
Puglover (16,380 posts)
89. Yup.
One of my favorite newbs.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #86)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:17 PM
Union Scribe (7,099 posts)
96. Yeah I hope that guy isn't phone-banking for us
I can just imagine the pleasant impression that would leave on the voters.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:16 PM
applegrove (111,027 posts)
87. Wars breaking out on issues that were previously mostly sane discussions at the DU. People
being generalized about. Not adult debate.
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:41 PM
spanone (132,841 posts)
90. paranoia strikes deep....
&feature=kp
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:02 PM
struggle4progress (114,734 posts)
92. Try this the Sunday before the election and let us know if it works:
Shave head and duck-tape lava lamp to it. Dangle American flag speedo from lamp. Strip naked, smear self with Crisco, then wrap body with clinging plastic wrap. Borrow long ladder and lights from local hardware store. Climb onto police station roof with loud boom box and use lights to signal aliens that it is safe to land. When anyone asks questions, explain how second amendment protects freedom of religion
There should be hundreds of DU posts about the story by Monday afternoon, and the noise won't die down until Thursday or Friday |
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #92)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:15 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
95. Where should I plug in?
Need power, no?
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #95)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:28 PM
struggle4progress (114,734 posts)
98. If the station doesn't have an outdoor socket, a nearby place probably does
Otherwise just get help from the desk sargeant
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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #98)
Wed May 28, 2014, 08:14 PM
MannyGoldstein (34,589 posts)
109. I'm working on powering small electronics with my mind rays
Perchance, do you know where could I procure a tiny, low-power lava lamp?
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:04 PM
NuclearDem (16,184 posts)
93. They could try stealing all our tinfoil.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:32 PM
Shandris (3,447 posts)
99. It's obvious. They'd start by turning everyone against each other, as many other...
...people have said.
But they wouldn't do it by introducing discussions that are divisive. They do it by going into various threads and trying to whip up sentiment against 'trolls'. Once everyone is concerned that there are 'trolls' everywhere, then anything you don't like -becomes- a troll. Then people begin to automatically discount what others say and use guilt by association as the predominant method of 'outing' 'trolls'. At that point, there's no need for them to do anything. The illusion of the troll has become more powerful than any given troll themselves. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:40 PM
hrmjustin (71,265 posts)
101. We at Mirt do our best to get rid of the new trolls that clog up the system.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:44 PM
nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)
104. Suppose an outside group has been at this since almost day one
...
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 07:55 PM
11 Bravo (23,574 posts)
108. I'd watch for threads about Benghogyny or Misghazi! Dead giveaways, both of 'em!
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:10 PM
Skip Intro (19,768 posts)
111. DU hall-monitors have done more harm to DU than any stealth effort.
The ridicule of anyone with a differing opinion.
The smearing of anyone with a differing opinion. I've seen admin here let a few things be known to those would-be authoritarians. I honestly don't think its DU's fault, however, for the lack of "active, motivated hotbed(ness)." Not entirely, at least. There is and has been little forthcoming about which to be motivated. Imho. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Thu May 29, 2014, 02:37 AM
Recursion (56,506 posts)
115. What if "real progressives" wanted to? (nt)
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Thu May 29, 2014, 05:36 AM
davidpdx (22,000 posts)
119. It's already happening, it's been happening and you just haven't noticed it
Slowly a new breed of members have been infesting DU, gaining trust and respect. Waiting, waiting for the moment to pounce. We are watching you, we know who you are and what you believe in. When the time comes we will be the disruptor of disruptors....
Oh damn, I outted myself. For fucksakes............. ![]() |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Thu May 29, 2014, 05:42 AM
Savannahmann (3,891 posts)
120. That presupposes that DU is effective
Despite a majority of us objecting to Drone Strikes, we've had no impact.
Despite a majority of us objecting to NSA/FBI/CIA/DHS/GCHQ surveillance, we've had no impact. Despite a majority of us being in favor of Single Payer, we've had no impact. Despite a majority of us opposing big corporations being in bed with Government, we've had no impact in that either. In short, I see DU as a place where (generally speaking) like minded people can meet and discuss issues. We are already inundated with plenty of people who defend the indefensible, and if those groups came to somehow diminish DU they would have to get in line behind those who have been singing that song for a while. |
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Thu May 29, 2014, 10:15 AM
Scuba (53,475 posts)
122. They would post over and over and over again that Elizabeth Warren is NOT running for President.