Suppose an outside group wanted to render DU ineffective

[MannyGoldstein]

As we move towards the 2014 and 2016 elections, what if Republicans or Third-Wayers wanted to neutralize DU as an active, motivated hotbed of FDR Liberalism.

What strategy might they employ?

What should we look out for?

[MADem]

1. Why do you want to know this? And why would anyone offer up a blueprint here?

This is a disruptive topic, IMO.

Like a guard dog, leading the way to the family silver...

[MannyGoldstein]

2. What should we be on the lookout for? nt

[MADem]

31. You already know, Manny! You already know.

No one here can teach you a thing!

[sufrommich]

36. You should be on the lookout for over stating

the importance of a relatively small forum like DU because it makes some feel important. Nobody is here diabolically planning to use DU to change the course of history. That's as egotistical as those who believe that their beliefs are so right that surely those who disagree are getting paid to do so.

[RobertEarl]

44. DU is an agent of change

The internet, which DU is a part of has created much change already. To deny it has or to infer that it hasn't, in itself creates suspicion. <grin>

[Capt. Obvious]

5. Thank you for your concern

[MADem]

16. And thank YOU for yours....

[onehandle]

3. They've been here since day one. nt

[Nye Bevan]

4. "Both parties are the same". "No point in voting".

"They're all corporatists, Republicans and Democrats alike". etc.

[PeaceNikki]

7. It's rare that I agree with you, but here it is.

The elections are all stolen lines bother me, too. I am in WI and was heavily involved in our infamous Supreme Court recount a few years ago. As such, I am hypersensitive to these.

[MADem]

22. Gee, those sound familiar...

As do "So-and-so isn't progressive enough!" and "Let's spend all our time, money and energy trying to get someone who won't have a prayer to win the nomination on the ballot! You know, just because ... principle and stuff! Yeah--I'm a better progressive than anyone here!!!! Go down swinging!!!"

[Whisp]

97. Scorched Earth is still my favourite.

Let everything fail, the automotive industry, wall street, banks, let it all burn down to the ground and we can rebuild into Utopia.

[MADem]

102. Tear it all down! Fight the power, man!!!

Yes, it's so ... naive!

[Maedhros]

35. I don't think that's what the Third Way would do.

The Third Way is all about the rah-rah-rah-we're-better-than-THEM because reasons.

[Armstead]

38. Oh I think any disruptive effort would be more like....

"If you are not 100 percent happy with the state of the nation and the Democratic Party, then just be quiet and sit down. All we want is rah,rah, rah, everything is perfect."

[GeorgeGist]

6. What do they always do?

Buy it.

[Lancero]

8. Spamming up GD with meaningless pets posts for one.

[bettyellen]

14. those ducks crossing the street piss me off.

[Voice for Peace]

37. and those annoying baby bears in the dumpster

[bettyellen]

42. Link?

[Voice for Peace]

105. as you can see it's been covered extensively: ladder rescues, momma bear rescues, ranger rescues

Many videos here:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=baby+bears+dumpster

[bettyellen]

106. LOL, thank you! And I concur they are a threat to democracy!

[yallerdawg]

58. And cats, cats, cats!

Google cat poo and deep-brain parasites -- maybe they can't help themselves.

[Jamastiene]

71. Toxoplasmosis

It makes mice walk right up to cats like little zombies being controlled by zillions of little diabolical parasites in their brain...because that's what is really happening, in a way.

I'm pretty sure I have it too, because I tend to walk right up to cats too...and pet them...and laugh at their shenanigans. I love shenanigans! I especially love cat shenanigans and kitten shenanigans are like chocolate. I can never get enough.

I'm pretty sure I have it too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis

[yallerdawg]

75. I've heard they even created an alternate complete cat Bible!

And attract humans to their biblical cause with repeated use of the word "cheeseburger."

Would we recognize this as an insidious infiltration here at Democratic Underground?

Or are too many infected?

[Jamastiene]

83. Considering how popular and influential the cat overlords are on DU,

I think it is highly likely the vast majority are already infected. The parasites may even be mutating into a DU variant that is impossible to treat, much less cure. I've never seen a web site or message board so full of people that love cats as much as DU. I think we have a specialized strain of mutated toxoplasmosis on DU.

[Katashi_itto]

59. Yes. The pet posts obviously have destroyed DU as we knew it. Not the fanatics.

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Ineffective at what?

[Ikonoklast]

88. Ask the next thousand...no, *ten* thousand people if they've ever even heard of DU.

There's your answer.

[TreasonousBastard]

107. Already asked our local Democratic committee...

guess what they said...

BTW, I ran for office last year. A few other DUers did too, and we mentioned it here. A couple of Attaboys for each of us and that was about it. I know there are people living close by but did any offer to help? Didn't see much real support for anyone else either.

(But, one forbidden word or misplaced comma and you'll be famous, sparking a 300 post thread...)

[Cali_Democrat]

10. They would probably attack a sitting Democratic president as relentlessly as they could. nt

[brooklynite]

18. Also beat up a prospective Presidential nominee and say they'd never vote for him/her....

[Cali_Democrat]

33. Yep....and they'd say that they'd rather overturn the election of Obama than the election of Reagan:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3995915

[bettyellen]

43. because the supreme court matters more to those SJWs and men care about money more!

I learned this at DU.

[1000words]

11. Keep introducing divisive issues and watch us tear each other apart.

Same way it's done at the macro-level.

[Katashi_itto]

17. +1000

[Armstead]

39. And what would be a divisive issue?

[1000words]

64. When DU has meltdowns over pitbulls, Olive Garden etc. ...

Just about anything goes. Next week it'll be something entirely new.

[Jamastiene]

73. I'll never forget the corn flake chicken wars.

I agreed with ZombieWoof about the corn flakes. People who tried that in the south would be forever mocked.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x961628

[1000words]

84. OMG!

I always thought the "corn flake -- chicken" references in the trash word feature were chosen randomly.

DU is a funny place. And yes, ZombieWoof won the thread.

[Warpy]

12. Look how women are being treated

On several threads today, the first post was by some patriarch who tried to shut the poster down immediately.

They'll be doing that and more as time goes on.

[bettyellen]

13. Ratfuckers, and oh yeah... SJWs LOL.

[closeupready]

15. While we're all fans, this website is really not that important.

Seriously.

On the other hand, when people pay dog walkers thousands of dollar per year, you know that sometimes people who've gotten rich too quick are the same ones who spend it like crazy, on all kinds of fantasy projects. These are the kinds of people who are targeted by get-rich-quick con men, and I wouldn't be half surprised to discover that many of the people who come here to disrupt have convinced Republican internet millionaires to pay them a decent sum to do nothing more than be trolls here.

[Skidmore]

19. Funny. I've often thought that the most effective way would

be for a group said individuals to come in and start accusing long time members of being anything but liberal and being DLCers and what have you, issue bogus alerts, start arguments, foment discord, and stack juries to get people expelled. But, hey, that's just what crossed my mind many times and who am I to question?

[Lee-Lee]

20. Do you really think anyone into issues enough to post on a political forum

Would be kept away from voting by anything on it?


What, maybe 1% of registered Democrats post anything at all online about politics and join a forum?

You think anything posted on a forum would discourage the most motivated members of the party?

Far more dangerous are the efforts aimed at the much less informed and active.

[seabeyond]

24. bingo. so. i guess, we do not have to be afraid. i agree. nt

[octoberlib]

27. /\ THIS /\ nt

[MADem]

28. I drive older voters to the polls.

Most of them are reliable voters--they vote in state and local elections, too.

Most of them are NOT online at all, and the ones who are online use it for "email" and grandchildren pictures/videos. A rare few are Brave Skypers.

So your points are very salient.

[Rex]

113. Yeah that is true, BUT you see DU is very important when it fits the narrative

and non existent when it doesn't. Old fight really, I think most of the big persona's post here to get on each others nerves. TO get a reply that they wanted. And yes, most of it negative.

I think this place motivates a small majority of people that are politically active, which sadly is a very small amount of the American population.

At least some people on DU are politically active, far better then the standard American that forgets to vote.

[Starry Messenger]

21. They'd let in a bunch of right-wing racist and sexist trolls

[seabeyond]

23. creatively clever ways telling women to shut up, by suggesting it is outside forces.....

trying to stop du dems from talking about the issue that scares them so???

oh manny. so predictable.

as a multi tasking woman, i so know we will be able to recognize, and handle more than one issue at a time. and well focused. that i am sure.

[seabeyond]

51. ah. ya see. chooky the thing? start with a nasty "vicitm" insult and i am done reading.

what a waste of your trolling time.

[Gormy Cuss]

72. Two of seven jurors thought we should just engage the bigot.

I LOVE the jury system!!11!!

[seabeyond]

82. truly,

i am surprised as shit my post wasnt hid for actually using the word troll.

wonders never end

ah. to be fair. i get away with as much as i get pinned on. it is all on who is sittin on the jury. the right people, it could be a nothing post and it gets a hide.

thanks gormy.

[BuelahWitch]

25. 1.Hi-jack liberal leaning threads by making detrimental assertions about the OP

2. Whine that liberals aren't electable

3. Demand "Our way or the highway"

4. Stalk and alert on liberal posters for stupid reasons to try and silence them.

5. Yell "She (He) isn't running!" in discussions about possible liberal candidates.

All I can think of at the moment.

[Puzzledtraveller]

26. Misogyny, Benghazi!

[jberryhill]

29. They would sow suspicions among DUers

[gollygee]

30. Set up a dichotomy between "Democrats" and "REAL Democrats"

and then bitch and moan as often as possible about Democratic leaders.

[aikoaiko]

32. First identify the concern trolls on this issue.

[closeupready]

62. Umm, see, I'm concerned about your reaction here.

Highly.

[pa28]

34. We already know interest groups hire trolls to populate key discussion groups.

The kinds of strategies they employ are not a secret either.

The Gentleperson's Guide to Forum Spies
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/22/1112509/-The-Gentleperson-s-Guide-to-Forum-Spies

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.

19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.

Lots more at the link. Many of them seem vaguely familiar.

[Skidmore]

40. Wow! Thanks for that link.

Bookmarked.

[BuelahWitch]

47. Thank you! n/t

[Vattel]

41. Relentless smearing of anyone who opposes them or their agenda or their candidates.

Other posters then waste time and energy answering the smears. I know I waste a lot of time pointing out smears. It is such low and despicable behavior that it is hard not to respond to it.

[blue neen]

45. What a comical post!

[Zorra]

46. Using propaganda techniques for one thing.

Recognizing Propaganda Techniques and Errors of Faulty Logic

Propaganda and Debating Techniques

The main similarity between Republican and Third Way conservative trolls. IMO, is that they both support laissez faire capitalism. They might not express this directly, but sometimes it's what someone never says that reveals their agenda. But this does not mean Third Way/Republican trolls won't bald faced lie about their real beliefs if it becomes necessary.

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political, and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers....

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

Corporatists will slowly try to move the Democratic party to the right, knowing that naive Dems won't even notice how far right we've moved.

"Democrats moving to the middle is a double disaster that alienates the party's progressive base while simultaneously sending a message to swing voters that the other side is where the good ideas are.' It unconsciously locks in the notion that the other side's positions are worth moving toward, while your side's positions are the ones to move away from. Plus every time you move to the center, the right just moves further to the right." ~ George Lakoff

[bigtree]

49. they might start by rhetorically separating Dems into fictional, contrived groups

like labeling those they disagree with as 'third way' . . . and using their republican-originated wedge politics to divide or suppress our Democratic vote in November.

[FSogol]

55. Or picking a candidate that isn't running and promote them as the only pure choice...

[msanthrope]

65. Same gender or race non-candidate of the front runner, to be most effective. nt

[Number23]

114. Nailed it. But not before creating a non-existent "schism" between the candidate that isn't running

and other party leaders.

[DanM]

50. DU is effective?

If that reply title got yer britches in a wad, hold on. Let me explain. I use and love DU for many reasons. But let's be honest and not kid ourselves . . . DU is not effective in the sense I and most others read the OP. Politically. It's frustrating, but it's just not.

[closeupready]

63. +1. That may sadden some, but while it's fun to come here and

talk amongst likeminded Democrats and liberals, it's just a glorified chat room.

[defacto7]

52. Divide and conquer. n/t

[Iggo]

53. I made up this new thing called "Divide and Conquer."

Send me a SASE and I'll send you my newsletter.

[tridim]

54. Look out for people who use PR buzzwords like "third wayers" in an attempt to divide Democrats. nt

[zappaman]

78. +100 n/t

[TygrBright]

56. Other than "provoking discussion and raising blood pressure" what is...

...DU currently "effective" at?

And if DU is genuinely effective at something that has real importance in the process of citizen participation in the self-governance of a democratic republic, it would almost by definition have to be related to "discussion," since that is what we do, here.

In such case, the answer to your question might lie in looking at ways to either shut down the website by making it economically non-viable for the owners, or in shutting down discussion altogether, by...

...what?

Mass resignations?

Outrage, controversy and disagreement do not shut down discussion, they provoke more of it.

The quality, of course, degrades greatly.

We are always walking that line, and seem to have successfully managed to negotiate it in 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, and 2012.

What has changed that might make it less negotiable in 2014 and 2016?

curiously,
Bright

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

57. Render it into just another arm of the Democratic Party.

Made up of Politics as Usual Yes Men.

[Squinch]

60. You.

Or at least multiple thinly veiled posts making fun of the concerns and positions of large swaths of Democratic voters.

[SidDithers]

76. +1...nt

Sid

[likesmountains 52]

110. Yup, you got that right.

[Number23]

116. You didn't just win this thread, you won this forum.

Sorry for such crappy prizes.

[Rex]

61. We see it almost daily. Thankfully they are just pests at this point.

Third-Wayers/Repukes that pretend DU is an anti-Obama/anti-democratic website and complain that this place blows chunks compared to what it was, ie they try their best to persuade new DUers to take a hike. They love to hate this place and the people that post here...yet somehow are the MOSTEST liberal, dem etc.. really funny watching them fake it.

Of course there is nothing wrong with DU, but you wouldn't know that according to the handful of people that love to hate this place.

[Autumn]

100. So true Rex, and I find it so funny that

the ones that really hate this place and always talk about how DU is nothing are always on MIRT and hosting. I made a comment once, I think my first term in MIRT about how I always come to DU to learn the truth about anything big that is going on and she says you won't learn the truth here. I was like

[Rex]

112. Yeah I've never seen this place not have great news in LBN or great topics in GD.

These huge wars and lists of people that shouldn't be here were beyond ridiculous and thankfully didn't run too many people off. You can learn a huge amount here if you pay attention. The rest is drama between warring factions that forgot why they hated each other back on DU2 or DU1.

I want the news, I get it from this site now. Bartcop RHS, is no more and Mike Malloy looks like he is really tired of talking about political bullshit.

Got to come here to get the objective view, with lots of people chiming in, it really makes information easier to believe or dismiss. I don't care how many people boo hoo this place. They can now go play with the Repukes on the new forum, the admins gave them a new place to hone their never ending fighting skills.

We can stay here and share information.

[msanthrope]

66. Relentlessly push disaffected/Libertarian white, overprivileged males as the example we should

all follow.

[bettyellen]

85. OUCH, that's going to hurt someone's outsized sense of entitlement...

As well it should!

[msanthrope]

103. I hope it does. nt

[Number23]

117. DAYUM!!! This thread is now officially bookmarkable.

[davidpdx]

118. The video you posted makes it bookmarkable

Ledger at his best....

[msanthrope]

121. Many thanks! nt

[winter is coming]

67. DU's effective?

How did that happen? When did that happen?

[greatauntoftriplets]

79. Damnit to hell!

You stole my line.

[winter is coming]

80. I'm sure you'll come up with something even better. n/t

[greatauntoftriplets]

81. That was it!

It's a good line, though, and the truth.

[Jamastiene]

68. I'm not so sure this is a good idea.

Think about it. If anyone comes up with an idea that would actually work, I wouldn't put it past an outside group to actually do it.

[yellowcanine]

69. Can't answer the question - all the more reason to: DEPLOY THE TINFOIL HATS NOW!

Better safe than sorry.

[SidDithers]

70. They would pretend to be liberals...

and do nothing but attack Democrats "from the left".

Sid

[whatchamacallit]

91. Or they might pretend to be liberals

and do nothing but attack the left. Or they might even pretend to be Americans.

[Bobbie Jo]

94. Oh....you Better Believe It! *

*Actual disruptor and "respected DU'er."

[Avalux]

74. They've tried many, many times before Manny. You've been here long enough to know that.

I remember trolls who posted on DU for years, pretending to be progressive, then when the time was right, they would go nuts. The most insidious are those who are clever enough to not really violate the rules; very passive aggressive.

There are also paid operatives who show up here with an agenda, but those are usually fettered out eventually.

DU is actually fairly good at self-regulating.

[FreakinDJ]

77. They already did

[Autumn]

86. Someone who goes around trashing Democrats like this,

"Anybody who says they will not vote for the democratic nominee, regardless of whom that nominee eventually is, is a total and complete fucking moron."


that would be my guess people like that are here to piss people off, nothing else.

[Puglover]

89. Yup.

One of my favorite newbs.

[Union Scribe]

96. Yeah I hope that guy isn't phone-banking for us

I can just imagine the pleasant impression that would leave on the voters.

[applegrove]

87. Wars breaking out on issues that were previously mostly sane discussions at the DU. People

being generalized about. Not adult debate.

[spanone]

90. paranoia strikes deep....

&feature=kp

[struggle4progress]

92. Try this the Sunday before the election and let us know if it works:

Shave head and duck-tape lava lamp to it. Dangle American flag speedo from lamp. Strip naked, smear self with Crisco, then wrap body with clinging plastic wrap. Borrow long ladder and lights from local hardware store. Climb onto police station roof with loud boom box and use lights to signal aliens that it is safe to land. When anyone asks questions, explain how second amendment protects freedom of religion

There should be hundreds of DU posts about the story by Monday afternoon, and the noise won't die down until Thursday or Friday

[MannyGoldstein]

95. Where should I plug in?

Need power, no?

[struggle4progress]

98. If the station doesn't have an outdoor socket, a nearby place probably does

Otherwise just get help from the desk sargeant

[MannyGoldstein]

109. I'm working on powering small electronics with my mind rays

Perchance, do you know where could I procure a tiny, low-power lava lamp?

[NuclearDem]

93. They could try stealing all our tinfoil.

[Shandris]

99. It's obvious. They'd start by turning everyone against each other, as many other...

...people have said.

But they wouldn't do it by introducing discussions that are divisive. They do it by going into various threads and trying to whip up sentiment against 'trolls'. Once everyone is concerned that there are 'trolls' everywhere, then anything you don't like -becomes- a troll. Then people begin to automatically discount what others say and use guilt by association as the predominant method of 'outing' 'trolls'.

At that point, there's no need for them to do anything. The illusion of the troll has become more powerful than any given troll themselves.

[hrmjustin]

101. We at Mirt do our best to get rid of the new trolls that clog up the system.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. Suppose an outside group has been at this since almost day one

...

[11 Bravo]

108. I'd watch for threads about Benghogyny or Misghazi! Dead giveaways, both of 'em!

[Skip Intro]

111. DU hall-monitors have done more harm to DU than any stealth effort.

The ridicule of anyone with a differing opinion.

The smearing of anyone with a differing opinion.

I've seen admin here let a few things be known to those would-be authoritarians. I honestly don't think its DU's fault, however, for the lack of "active, motivated hotbed(ness)." Not entirely, at least. There is and has been little forthcoming about which to be motivated. Imho.

[Recursion]

115. What if "real progressives" wanted to? (nt)

[davidpdx]

119. It's already happening, it's been happening and you just haven't noticed it

Slowly a new breed of members have been infesting DU, gaining trust and respect. Waiting, waiting for the moment to pounce. We are watching you, we know who you are and what you believe in. When the time comes we will be the disruptor of disruptors....


















Oh damn, I outted myself. For fucksakes.............

[Savannahmann]

120. That presupposes that DU is effective

Despite a majority of us objecting to Drone Strikes, we've had no impact.

Despite a majority of us objecting to NSA/FBI/CIA/DHS/GCHQ surveillance, we've had no impact.

Despite a majority of us being in favor of Single Payer, we've had no impact.

Despite a majority of us opposing big corporations being in bed with Government, we've had no impact in that either.

In short, I see DU as a place where (generally speaking) like minded people can meet and discuss issues. We are already inundated with plenty of people who defend the indefensible, and if those groups came to somehow diminish DU they would have to get in line behind those who have been singing that song for a while.

[Scuba]

122. They would post over and over and over again that Elizabeth Warren is NOT running for President.