"John Kerry's Latest Snowden Comments Are Moronic, Offensive, and Dangerous"--Nathasha Lennard

[KoKo]

(Well I'd drop "Moronic" as OTT but I could go with "Offensive and Dangerous." She makes some good comments in this snip. She also mentions Bradley Manning in the rest of the article and how he "Manned Up.&quot

--------
John Kerry's Latest Snowden Comments Are Moronic, Offensive, and Dangerous

By Natasha Lennard
May 28, 2014 |

Secretary of State John Kerry repeated his line on NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden Tuesday with the most moronic aplomb to date.

Snowden had commented in an NBC interview that he had not intended to take refuge in Russia, but was stuck there en route to Latin America when the US government suspended his passport.

Kerry responded that the whistleblower should "man up," adding: "The fact is if he cares so much about America and he believes in America, he should trust in the American system of justice."

That our most senior diplomat still finds it acceptable to utter "man up" as a call to bravery is a misogyny-soaked problem enough to deserve its own column.

---snip-----

The underlying logic of his comment conflates "America" with the "American justice system." But if US justice is an avatar for America, it stands not as a representative but rather as an opponent to millions of Americans. And herein, I believe, lies a fundamental difference between those who see Snowden as hero and those who see him as an enemy.

It's a question of allegiance. The sort of care Snowden has exhibited towards the US is a care for its citizens: their rights, freedoms and access to knowledge about how their lives are watched and policed. His, one might say, is an allegiance to that old myth, "America the free." Kerry, meanwhile, shows his colors in aligning uncritically with "America the state."

Unlike Snowden, I'm no patriot. But the secretary of state's assumption that one cannot be patriotic while challenging the misdeeds of state institutions misreads care for a country's purported ideals with its institutional representatives. It's a dangerous logic that opens the door to any number of abuses and oppressions.

Continued at:

https://news.vice.com/article/john-kerrys-moronic-and-dangerous-snowden-comments

[daleanime]

1. K&R....

[MohRokTah]

2. Thanks

Another idiot to add to my pile of self proclaimed journalists who are ranters that know nothing about what they rant.

Off to the pits of GG, Nathasha Lennard

[HangOnKids]

8. Do they have snacks in the pits?

Peanuts, popcorn, pretzels?

[Autumn]

13. Lots and lots of pretzels.

Many pretzels.

[HangOnKids]

19. And some warriors? n/t

[Autumn]

23. Armchair. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

24. +100 nt

[QC]

26. And coming soon, a delicious new addition to the menu:

[Spider Jerusalem]

37. So do you only approve of journalists who are all "rah rah USA USA, Snowden is a traitor!"

"We have always been at war with Eastasia! You love Big Brother!" then?

Ask Don Siegelman what he thinks about the US justice system.

[frylock]

38. insightful analysis

[grasswire]

3. the history of liberties in this country is based on challenges to authority.

Kerry is on the wrong side of history. He's beginning to sound like McGramps.

[Maedhros]

11. Kerry is a good soldier, just like Colin Powell.

He'll say what he's told to say.

[treestar]

4. Dangerous? LOL

And now the Secretary of State is supposed to bow to Eddie, too?

The justice system is pretty good, all things considered. Better than Russia's.

As for grabbing on to the man up comment and invoking misogyny, that's hilarious. Both of them are men.

[mindwalker_i]

9. Look around and yeah, you'll find worse justice systems

A woman who gets beat up by her husband might have a friend who gets beat up more, so what's she complaining about?

[hueymahl]

30. What a great analogy

I notice there is no response from the poster it is aimed at. When you are cut to the core, that tends to happen.

[Swede Atlanta]

20. Our justice system if pretty good?

What?

Our justice system is a joke. We have over 25% of the world's prison population. Why? Is it because Americans are that much more criminal than people in other countries? There may be something to that based on the "me, me, me" mentality of the right but that is not my point.

Of those incarcerated, minorities constitute the majority. Their percentage of the population is much lower than their numbers in our prison population. I wonder why? It is because we still have racism that is rampant in juries. It is because many minorities are people of limited means therefore dependent on public defenders. Here in Georgia the General Assembly basically doesn't want to pay for any public defenders. So you end up with lawyers who are trying to do the best job but are overworked and underpaid. With all due respect to public defenders, the brightest and sharpest lawyers are generally attracted to the highly paid positions with prestigious law firms, etc. So the poor and minorities get what's left.

We know we convict people to death who are innocent. Our illustrious Justice Scalia has said that "factual innocence is no reason not to execute". His view is even if a defendant is factually innocent, if the defendant got a "fair trial" and was convicted....party on with the death penalty.

Based on what we saw in Manning's case I wouldn't trust this government at all. They are criminal thugs who will do whatever they can to get a conviction despite the facts.

So no, Snowden shouldn't come back to face anything. I say thank you Mr. Snowden for your service to our country!

[dawg]

53. Do you really think they would give Snowden a fair and open trial?

I do not.

I think he would be extremely lucky to even go before a jury. Some sort of tribunal or commission would be more likely.

But even if he did get a jury, evidence that his attorneys would want to produce would likely be blocked due to "national security" concerns. When one side is able to control what is and is not allowed to be brought into evidence, there is no such thing as a fair trial.

[ProSense]

5. Silliness

It carries a particularly grim resonance in the wake of Chelsea Manning's military trial and conviction. That whistleblower had to "man up" in the most literal of ways: She stood trial as Bradley Manning, her legal team determining it would do the case no favors to reveal her preferred name and gender identity during the court martial.

No one, fugitive whistleblower or otherwise, should heed Kerry's call to 'trust in the American justice system.'

And, indeed, military psychologists testifying at the trial pathologized Manning's gender identity as a "disorder," a designation that even the DSM-5 has scrapped. Chelsea Manning remains in a male prison. The point being, US justice has a cruel way of insisting that its victims "man up." Kerry's use of the phrase is unwitting reminder of this.

People are taking issue with Kerry stating that Snowden should be held accountable, and they're doing it by saying no one should "trust" the U.S. justice system? Kerry is a Government official.

Did people expect Snowden's claims to go unchallenged by anyone with the stature to do so? Kerry's statements were similar to what many other Democrats have said.

Snowden is the coward

Expecting any administration official to coddle Snowden is letting a bias get the best of logic. Being surprised that Kerry would point to the justice system is ridiculous.

Here's another quote:

Snowden's allegiance is to that old myth 'America the free,' while Kerry aligns uncritically with 'America the State.'

Really? Kerry aligns with the government?

Snowden and his lawyers know he broke the law. Snowden knows the extent of the information he took, as he admitted tonight. He screwed up. He's a fugitive. He's not some fragile kid, and no one should expect that he'd be treated with kid gloves.

It's interesting to see Kerry being thrown under a bus for calling out a self-confessed spy who stole government documents (some admittedly damaging) and fled the country. What did people expect Kerry to say?

Demanding or suggesting he return to the U.S. to be held accountable is not unusual. Kerry has earned the right to make that call.

Like it or not, Snowden dug himself into a deeper hole with last night's interview.

During the interview, he sounded like an idiot and most of his claims were absurd. I mean, the fool admitted, in his own words, that he took damaging information and distributed it and the only thing he has as a defense is that the recipients promised not to reveal the information.

9) Snowden didn’t deny turning over secrets that would be damaging or harmful. He only said journalists have a deal with him not to do it. Just a reminder: we really have no idea how many reporters or organizations have copies of the documents or the total number of documents (it’s a Greenwald/Snowden secret), but we do know that Snowden documents have been reported by so many publications that the question arises: who doesn’t have Snowden documents?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025017514

Snowden is seeking clemency or a plea deal. Like it or not, he's going to have to deal with the U.S. justice system.

[mindwalker_i]

14. ...

FTFY

[ProSense]

15. Hey, this is a win-win

The Government has no intention of offering Snowden clemency and he doesn't have to trust the U.S. justice system.

He can stay in Russia and do TV shows about missing home.

[hueymahl]

32. Wow

What utter gall you have:

Snowden is the coward

States the poster hiding behind her keyboard.

[ProSense]

35. Well

"States the poster hiding behind her keyboard."

...spies like Edward Snowden hide behind a "keyboard," and now he's hiding in Russia.

[djean111]

6. This -

The underlying logic of his comment conflates "America" with the "American justice system." But if US justice is an avatar for America, it stands not as a representative but rather as an opponent to millions of Americans. And herein, I believe, lies a fundamental difference between those who see Snowden as hero and those who see him as an enemy.

It's a question of allegiance. The sort of care Snowden has exhibited towards the US is a care for its citizens: their rights, freedoms and access to knowledge about how their lives are watched and policed. His, one might say, is an allegiance to that old myth, "America the free." Kerry, meanwhile, shows his colors in aligning uncritically with "America the state."

Not to mention the people who are just enraged because Obama happened to be president when Snowden spilled the beans. Allegiance to Obama has replaced allegiance to fellow citizens.
Be that as it may, the ongoing hissy fits and vituperation directed at Snowden are pointless. Doesn't change what he revealed one iota.

[woo me with science]

10. +1000000

You beat me to it.

I was reposting exactly those paragraphs as you posted.

[blm]

17. His timing DOES matter whether you want to see it or not.

You can trust someone entrenched from the get go in Bush loyalist circles who releases his cache at the same time Obama is preparing a historic meeting in China, and, while Bushes are set to begin an all out push to rehab the family name. I don't believe in coincidences when it comes to BushInc.

Jeb2016

[factsarenotfair]

25. Oh, that's some good food for thought.

So maybe the reason Kerry is attacking Snowden is because he knows Snowden is trying to help Jeb and his crew? I still can't believe that Brian Williams was allowed to interview Snowden and how non-confrontational he was.

[KoKo]

27. blm...you can't seriously believe that the Bushies orchestrated Snowden to

give up his life and be "man without a country" in Russia to get Jeb Bush elected in 2016.

I know how committed to Kerry you are...but, he's not the the same man he was.. I'd worry more about WHO "got to Kerry" on the NeoCon team than to think Snowden would give up his life and go through all he's had to deal with just to get Jeb elected.

[blm]

29. Skip it KoKo - I have said so from DAY ONE. Snowden was groomed to do something that would be of

value to the Bushes when the time came. I don't think Snowden is even aware of the extent of how he is being used. I doubt John Hinckley did, either. The CIA operative who 'accidentally' bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade right before Clinton was set to have a historic meeting in China, probably knew exactly what he was doing for BushInc.

YOU can believe in the coincidences when it comes to the Bush family. That is your choice.

I don't.

95% of the time history proves me right.

[hueymahl]

36. Where is the emoji with a tinfoil hat?

[blm]

39. I don't mind slings and arrows. I know how BushInc operates.

I know how deep their manipulations of China policy have been since the 70s. I know that every firm Snowden worked with was deeply loyal to Poppy Bush who also maintains a power base within the CIA that no president will crack.

You are welcome to your coincidence theories.

[msanthrope]

48. Note how Snowden never talks about anything bad at the CIA??? nt

[woo me with science]

7. Spot-on summation of why that speech was so malignant and disturbing.

The underlying logic of his comment conflates "America" with the "American justice system." But if US justice is an avatar for America, it stands not as a representative but rather as an opponent to millions of Americans. And herein, I believe, lies a fundamental difference between those who see Snowden as hero and those who see him as an enemy.

It's a question of allegiance. The sort of care Snowden has exhibited towards the US is a care for its citizens: their rights, freedoms and access to knowledge about how their lives are watched and policed. His, one might say, is an allegiance to that old myth, "America the free." Kerry, meanwhile, shows his colors in aligning uncritically with "America the state."

Thank you, Nathasha Lennard.

[msongs]

12. meanwhile the CIC and SOS murder wedding parties with impunity then gripe

about the awfulness of Snowden, who has apparently murdered nobody in the name of "the state"

[struggle4progress]

16. It's really sad to see this sort of BS

Lennard notwithstanding, Kerry never said anything resembling one cannot be patriotic while challenging the misdeeds of state institutions

And that merely scratches the surface of her misrepresentations:

Lennard claims, for example, that Manning's legal team determining it would do the case no favors to reveal her preferred name and gender identity during the court martial ...And .. military psychologists testifying at the trial pathologized Manning's gender identity as a "disorder" -- whereas, in fact, gender dysphoria was discussed in the trial only because Manning's defense rested in part on the claim and called witnesses to provide such diagnosis

Similarly, Lennard refers to the jailing of former CIA analyst John Kiriakou for talking about torture -- whereas, in fact, Kiriakou first came into public view as a supporter of Bush-era waterboarding and was not actually prosecuted for talking about torture

This is journalism?

[ProSense]

18. No,

"This is journalism?"

...it's the don't anyone dare say anything negative about Snowden press releases.

The bizarreness of attacking Kerry because he stated that Snowden should return home and face the system is an example.

I mean, they seem to want him to either remain in Russia or just be allowed back as if nothing happened. Naive silliness.

[Logical]

34. He exposed shit that caused an uproar! And It needed exposed......

You would not admit it if Obama said it!

[rtracey]

40. thats the flavor of the day

Seem to be the flavor of the day... I had basically forgotten about Snowden, until he popped back into our lives....He admitted he was looking into going to Cuba first, then Latin American.... not sure patriots run to enemy countries.... but there is a saying...."run like a thief".....

[truedelphi]

21. I wish we had a law in place to keep Skull and Bones folks out of our governmnet. n/t

[BrotherIvan]

28. Amen

[Progressive dog]

22. She's upset he called Snowden "dumb"

while she knows he's a patriot. He can settle this fight between the Secretary of State and some blogger by just coming home and presenting his case before a jury of his peers. He doesn't have to be declared a "patriot"by the jury, he just has to convince them that he isn't a criminal.

[AzDar]

31. K & R

[KG]

33. Kerry's bleatings the last few weeks have a certain comedic charm...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

41. Kerry HAS to go there to prevent others from thinking they'll be the next leaking hero.

[canoeist52]

42. The swift-boated has now become a name-calling swiftboater.

My how things can turn on a dime.

[KoKo]

44. I think people have forgotten when Kerry threw his Vietnam Medals away

at Protest against Vietnam War.

Maybe he attributes it to "a change in attitude" but he sure got all of us Anti-Iraq Invasion and Anti-Bush Stolen Election folks to Vote for him in 2004 because we believed he was something different than what he seems to have turned out to be these days....

[rug]

45. He did throw medals. It's unclear whose.

But in 1984, when he first ran for the U.S. Senate, Kerry revealed he still had his medals. According to a Boston Globe report on April 15, 1984, union officials had expressed uneasiness with Kerry's candidacy because he had thrown his medals away. Kerry acknowledged the medals he threw away were, in fact, another soldier's medals. He reportedly invited a union official home to personally inspect his Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, awarded for his combat duty as a Navy lieutenant.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=123495

[KoKo]

46. So he really didn't protest with an honor of his own...but, with someone elses...

Okay...that might better explain who he is today. Thanks for that link.

[blm]

49. That just shows how absurdly you are viewing the facts involved.

Sorry K - but you are doing exactly what BushInc wants - putting the lion's share of the blame on those stuck dealing with the fallout from THEIR programs.

You're taking it as far as the Rand Paul acolytes who pin all the blame on Obama, completely oblivious to the FACT that Obama and his circle were left out of the loop by the intel elite. Who do the intel elite report to? Who started their programs?

[scruboak]

52. That's a ridiculous excuse, and the ballot boxes in November will show that it's just an excuse

Let us suppose that the president has been sabotaged by certain members of the executive branch--his own executive branch, which by now includes plenty of people whom he appointed and whom he deliberately re-hired and retained from the Bush administration.

If that's occurring, what's to stop the president from going to the American people and saying, "There is a coup going on that you don't know about, a coup that has effectively removed me and all other elected officials from governing. I need the help of the American people to set things right. Here are the names of the people who are reversing my orders in secret, beyond the reach of democratic processes."

Because what you're talking about would certainly be a coup, right? You're saying we have a president who has been usurped, who no longer has power, who is a figurehead only. Talk about conspiracy theories.

But it wasn't a coup, it was simply an excuse to avoid shaking up the system.

And that's what I'm hearing from young college students in my state: "This president didn't bother to change the system. The Democrats didn't bother to change the system. They've had six years to change it, and all they've done is put bandaids on it. Why should I bother to ever vote again?"

Six years later, and we're still blaming Bush.

Think about it. Think long and hard, because the ballot boxes are going to completely reject your argument. You should be aware of that by now. The fact that you're not is pretty astounding.

[blm]

54. Here you are catapulting the 'Both sides are the same vote for Republican Rand Paul' propaganda

Last edited Fri May 30, 2014, 10:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Exactly as I have been saying.

Yes - I am saying that the intel and security INDUSTRY developed over the last 40 years has an inner circle of elites loyal only to GHWBush and his NWO cronies.

I don't give a flying eff that you were able to convince to yourself that Bushes have no involvement in that whatsoever. People dupe themselves into believing a lot of things, and your certainty that Bushes haven't been involved the last 6 years is really ....precious. Try that line out on someone who hasn't been paying closer attention than you the last 4 decades.


This is EXACTLY what I have been telling you and other Democrats, KoKo. This issue is being used by BushInc and Paulites sympathetic to BushInc's fascist agenda.

[m-lekktor]

43. i agree.

[ucrdem]

47. Apparently Vice.com was co-founded by Gavin McInnes of Tackling Asian Privilege fame

per wiki:

McInnes co-founded Vice in 1994. His role as an editor at Vice led to him being referred to as "the Godfather of hipsterdom" and one of the "primary architects of hipsterdom." He left Vice in 2007 due to "creative differences."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_McInnes

Strange that it doesn't seem to bother anyone now.

[LexVegas]

50. I disagree that moronic is over the top. He is a moron.

Has been for years. And years.

[blm]

51. Oh? Did you lose money when BCCI was forced to close?

.

[mylye2222]

55. maybe. lol......

Some people here will never ever try tu understand who really John Kerry is. ....

[mylye2222]

56. oh yes. ....So moron that he made trough this very recent years

So powerfull negociations he avoided conflicts?

I kindly advise you to get more informed.

[woo me with science]

57. K&R

[Harmony Blue]

58. Kerry has been wrong way too many times

he needs to calm down and start thinking more clearly.