Goldstein: Kerry should "man up" and quit government

[MannyGoldstein]

for his vote on the Iraq War.

Kerry: Snowden should 'man up' and return to U.S.

Which will cause more suffering? That damned war or Ed Snowden's disclosures?

(Even better, Kerry should "person up" up and quit. What's with the "man up"? Women aren't capable of whatever it is that Kerry seeks?)

[hrmjustin]

1. Did you vote for Kerry in 2004?

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Yes.

Only because of the alternative.

[hrmjustin]

4. Yeah but if he should quit because of the Iraq war why did you vote for him?

Why shoukd that vote be held against him now when you didn't in 2004?

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Would you rather have a hand amputated, or a finger amputated?

Oh really?

I guess that means you love having fingers amputated.

[hrmjustin]

8. No I prefer to keep my limbs and digits.

Can you answer my question?

[MannyGoldstein]

13. I *think* I did. nt

[hrmjustin]

15. Then why is his iraq war vote held against him now but not then?

[HangOnKids]

16. Hey How About Those Mets? n/t

[hrmjustin]

18. They suck as usual.

[HangOnKids]

20. Ahh too bad

Come root for the A's they are fucking awesome. Or the Giants! Best records in baseball belong right here in Nor Cal!

[hrmjustin]

22. I was raised on the Mets.

The NY Rangers are winning so I got that.

[HangOnKids]

24. Oh don't be too sure they will go all the way

Remember the Boston Yankees series? The Rangers have their work cut out for them.

[hrmjustin]

26. Time will tell.

[MannyGoldstein]

19. I've held it against him since it happened.

Can't speak for others.

[hrmjustin]

21. Then why was it ok for him to be president then but not ok for him to be SOS now?

Your op says
Goldstein: Kerry should "man up" and quit government

for his vote on the Iraq War.

[MannyGoldstein]

27. My choice was Kerry or Bush.

Is this a trick question?

What is my ossified brain missing here?

I should have voted for Bush? Or not voted?

[hrmjustin]

29. My point is it seems odd you would say he can't be SOS because of his war vote but he could be

president.

Nothing changed in those years since his vote and your presidential vote so why say he needs to go over his vote?

[zeemike]

44. That is an interesting point you make.

You have a choice between the lesser of two evils and you chose the lesser...and then the lesser is elevated to good and you can never complain about them again...once you cast your vote for them they are absolved.

None of us got to vote for SOS...it is a appointed position.

And BTW, I voted for Kerry too in 04...because he was the lesser of the two evil Bonesmen.

[hrmjustin]

46. If you think that Kerry is not up to the job then that is a legit point to make.

But if the op says he is not qualified to be sos because of his Iraq vote 11 years ago but he voted for the same guy 10 years ago knowing full well how he voted then I say that is hypocritical.

If you want him gone then say it but to say it is because of his Iraq war vote when he voted for him in 2004 is laughable.

[zeemike]

50. And what choice did we have?

Either good cop or bad cop, one will act nicer but they both will work the same.
I supported Dean in the primary but he did not make it, so I had the choice between a democratic Bonesman or a Republican Bonesman...and my choice does not absolve him of his actions.

[hrmjustin]

52. I agree the choices were limited but we made it.

His vote shoukd not disqualify him for a job he already has by people eho voted for him for the top job.

The argument that he is not doing a good job is a stronger argument.

[sulphurdunn]

41. Why shouldn't it be

held against him now if it was a bad vote, regardless what of what went down in 2004? Some of you people seem to think that a vote for a politician indentures you to the asshole for life.

[hrmjustin]

42. You people?

I think it is odd to vote for a guy for president knowing he voted for the war and then a decade later say he can't serve as sos based on that vote.

[Cali_Democrat]

43. Yes. It is very odd

actually, it's totally ridiculous.

[hrmjustin]

45. I just don't get it.

Now if the op said I think he is not a good sos I would say that is point worth arguing.

[sulphurdunn]

49. Think what you like.

Many people still had some faith in and believed that senate democrats knew things they didn't about Iraq in 2003, but that was 11 years ago. One hell of a lot has happened since then, more than enough to change a thinking person's mind about the character of John Kerry.

[hrmjustin]

51. And that is a legitimate thing to say.

You don't like him and that is fine by me. But his vote should not disqualify him if you thought he was ok for president, but his job performance.

I agree that was the worst decision the senate dems coukd have made. I was pissed ehen Clinton and Schumer voted for it and I let them know.

[MannyGoldstein]

54. For the record, most Congressional Democrats voted against the Iraq War Resolution. nt

[hrmjustin]

55. To be clear are you saying Kerry's vote to go to war disqualifies him to be SOS?

[MannyGoldstein]

56. Clearly it doesn't, because he *is* SOS

I just think he should person up and quit.

[hrmjustin]

57. Quit because he is doing a bad job or his vote?

[MannyGoldstein]

58. Because of his demonstrated poor judgement when it counted the most, and

as contrition for the awful thing he did.

[hrmjustin]

62. We could argue this all night so I will say it is unfair to hold his vote against him as SoS

but not when he was up for election.

You think he is doing a bad job then I coukd sympathize but on his Iraq vote I can not hold it against him.

[sulphurdunn]

59. Because he's doing a bad job.

But, it's not his fault. He's just another imperial status quo asshole. What else can one expect from such people?

[hrmjustin]

61. Well I can not say I am impressed with Kerry myself.

[PowerToThePeople]

2. Same for HRC. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

5. You should Manny up and laugh it off

That's the best I could do. "Man up" was/is 3rd rate for any SoS, especially John Kerry.

[NuclearDem]

7. ...

[bemildred]

9. He's just trying to get in touch with the common man, Manny.

He thinks saying things like "man up" is how you do that, you know, pretend to be illiterate and misogynistic?

[Maedhros]

11. Demonstrates to which demographic group (male, conservative) the Adminstration is speaking.

When they speak to their base (liberal, progressive), they tell us to shut up and take it.

[Autumn]

17. If he had tried to be in touch with the common man in 2004

he might have won.

[Aerows]

28. LOL! n/t

[bemildred]

36. No question about that in my mind.

I voted for him then, but that will be the last time.

[ProSense]

10. Snowden tried to join the war to fight in Iraq

That was when he still thought whistleblowers should be shot in the balls.

He's mini Greenwald.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. That's pretty much the same thing as voting as a US senator to go to war. nt

[ProSense]

14. Or you voting for Obama.

[Cali_Democrat]

23. Goldstein is channeling Ted Cruz

He recently called for John Kerry to resign:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/29/ted-cruz-john-kerry_n_5231897.html

Goldstein also said he'd rather overturn the election of Obama than the election of Reagan:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3995915

So Goldstein would rather overturn the election of Obama than the election of Reagan and now Goldstein calls on John Kerry to resign.

This Goldstein guy is one interesting fella....

[Trajan]

53. I like beer ... Hitler liked beer

Therefore: Trajan = Hitler

Yes ... I see your point ...

[Egnever]

25. who?

[Louisiana1976]

30. Rec'd for "person up." I can't stand the noninclusive expression "man up."

[LittleBlue]

31. Kerry practically defines the word "mediocre"

A man who, let's face it, wouldn't have got where he is without family connections.

50 years from now he'll be a trivia question: Who lost to Chimpy in 2004?

[blm]

33. Oh? How about THESE trivia questions? Who investigated and exposed IranContra?

Who uncovered BCCI and its funding of global terrorism?

Who uncovered the S&L scandal?

Who exposed CIA drugrunning?

Who did all of those things with most of official DC against him?

You are welcome to name one lawmaker who effected this nation's actual historic record more positively than Kerry has the last 4 decades.

You are also welcome to name your significant accomplishments that made you lift yourself onto that pedestal.

[LittleBlue]

34. Oh please

This is like the "accomplishment" crowd for Obama.

He had two chances in his life to do something great, not some minor shit people barely remember: Beating the Bush mafia, and standing up to a murderous war.

He failed at both. And his vote to authorize a war that killed hundreds of thousands leaves blood on his hands. He has utterly destroyed his legacy.

[sendero]

38. Don't forget his stance on Syria...

.... I was neutral on him until that. Never heard a word of passion out of his mouth until it was "bomb Syria".

If he would have defended himself against the swiftboat attacks with half the passion, he might have beat the shrub. It will always leave a question in my mind, if all of that stuff was untrue then why not defend yourself? The only possibilities are not pleasant to consider.

Now, I hold him in the same esteem I hold 95% of politicians. You can guess how high that is.

[blm]

39. IranContra, BCCI, CIA drugrunning and S&Ls were minor shit to you?

Quite the historian, aintcha?

BTW - It was the Dem party charged with beating Bush in 2004 and Kerry performed well even with Clinton praising Bush's military decisions while Kerry was ripping them apart. And Terry McAuliffe did NOTHING to secure the election in the 4 years he had to do so. Instead of rebuilding the party infrastructure and securing the election process in key states like Ohio, he let the party infrastructure remain collapsed. No presidential candidate can fix a party's collapsed infrastructure state by state in the months before the general election.

You are welcome to keep revising history to suit your venom - You certainly aren't a caretaker of history.

[zeemike]

47. You don't oppose a fellow Bonesman.

Especially one with the pedigree of a Bush.

[sulphurdunn]

37. Robert Perry?

[blm]

40. Robert Parry was a key investigative reporter on some of the IranContra stories.

His reporting was important and contributed to the overall investigation that Kerry launched and pursued on his own on the hill for over a year before he finally forced congress to act on it.

[unblock]

32. ah, "manning up"! so *that's* what sarah palin was doing when she quit government!

[KansDem]

35. "In what respect, unblockie?"

[treestar]

48. Nobody said he should quit before this

How does Snow get so much devotion? It's getting weird.

This comment, which Kerry has no power to enforce, is that enraging?

[Autumn]

60. Kerry is living in "a pipe dream more fitting to fantasyland than any serious discussion."

according The Rude Pundit. The Pundit nailed it, and Kerry

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025021182