General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShould DU be an English Only site?
A fellow DUer told me that her post had been hidden because it was written in a different (Asian) language. There's nothing like a little xenophobia to exhibit our liberalism(?). And, yes, it is a push poll.
47 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited | |
Yes | |
10 (21%) |
|
No | |
31 (66%) |
|
Only English and Profanity | |
1 (2%) |
|
English and French when discussing cuisine (ooops..cuisine IS French) | |
1 (2%) |
|
Olde English would be preferable | |
2 (4%) |
|
If Latin was good enough for the Romans... | |
2 (4%) |
|
Only the 'Murikan dialect and only if spoken by white folks | |
0 (0%) |
|
Vive la différence | |
0 (0%) |
|
1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)(Garbage! I do not want or like this!)
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)Someone may report you for using an Asian language
Its totally madness.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Hawai'i is part of Polynesia, which in turn is part of Oceania, that is, Australia, New Zealand, and the Pacific Islands. 'Olelo Hawai'i is thus not an Asian language.
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)But you can see how it went....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=800210
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)many Japanese words have filtered into the local "Pidgin" dialect.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Punahou, class of '68. At our graduation at the HIC arena, we sang an entire album's worth of songs in Hawaiian. I still have the record, and occasionally regale my stupefied buddies with what I can remember.
Response to panader0 (Reply #46)
KamaAina This message was self-deleted by its author.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Or someone could have asked me for one. Sending it to a Jury was..a waste of time and energy, in my opinion.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)shes kinda like my older sister... we live near by.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Kimi is right--very xenophobic.
I would love to learn more about other languages.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)There were some very ... CONSERVATIVE voices speaking out there about how I SHOULD TAKE MY WORDS and go POST THEM to a Japanese site. I SUPPOSE IF THAT is the case, than EVERYONE WHO speaks Spanish, French, German, Yiddish, Russian, Hungarian, Swedish, etc should GO post at THEIR respective sites. To me...its NOT FAIR that ASIAN languages should be excluded... ARE WE GOING TO deny Chinese Americans the right to say a few encouraging words about their Politicians to others in Mandarin to get them to vote?
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I can't understand it, so they must be saying mean things about me!
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)About in Arizona where two people where chatting while waiting in line at a bank. They were speaking in a language that was not English. A guy behind them shouted out...HEY THIS IS AMERICA...WE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE IF YOU CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH GO BACK TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY !!.... "GO BACK? We are back, we're native Americans and were speaking Navaho." ...something like that.
makes you wonder...Will Native Americans be allowed to speak their languages? My best friend is Lakota and he is learning his own language in college. He will never be able to write it on the internet without someone harassing him.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I'd love to learn that.
What is it called? Lakota or something else? Siouan?
Know what I really would love to learn? Portuguese...
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Lakota. So that is the name of his people and their language. As for Portuguese, I suppose you could get Rosetta Stone and use that. It works better than with Asian languages, mostly because of the little nuances in Asian languages.
Number23
(24,544 posts)(myself included on the rare occasion by some of DU's legends of cluelessness) knows that it's not unusual here. Which is a real shame.
DFW
(54,437 posts)Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Original post)
KamaAina This message was self-deleted by its author.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)MineralMan
(146,331 posts)should not be used for entire posts without a translation being posted in the same post.
Most DUers speak, read and write in English. Still, we have posters from all over the world, so I don't see a problem with the use of other languages here, as long as a translation is provided if the entire post is in another language. Foreign language phrases are just fine with me as part of a post. If someone needs a translation of those phrases, they can ask or use Google Translate.
Disclaimer: I read and understand English, Spanish, French and Russian. I write only in English, though, since I want to be understood by all DUers.
randome
(34,845 posts)Smiley-verse is the wave of the future.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesnt always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one youre already in.[/center][/font][hr]
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Go ahead, I dare you.
randome
(34,845 posts)Take that, Ikonoklast!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)As soon as mom gets out in three to five years, expect a visit.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Copy and paste to Google Translate or any one of several translating websites available.
"Problem" solved!
LTR
(13,227 posts)Kial? Kopiu kaj algluu al Google Translate
aŭ iu el pluraj tradukante retejoj
haveblas. "Problemo" solvita!
Miért? Másolja és illessze be a Google
Translate vagy bármely egyike fordítás
honlapokon elérhető. "Probléma"
megoldódott!
Wèishéme ne? Fùzhì bìng zhāntiē dào gǔgē
fānyì huò jǐ zhǒng fānyì wǎngzhàn tígōng de
rènhé yīgè. Wèntí jiějuéle!
为什么呢?复制并粘贴到谷歌翻译或几种翻
译网站提供的任何一个。 问题解决了!
למה? העתק והדבק ל Google Translate או כל
אחד מכמה אתרי תרגום זמין. " בעיה " נפתר
Kungani? Kopisha unamathisele ku-Google
Translate noma esinye amawebhusayithi
eziningana ukuhumusha atholakalayo.
"Inkinga" ixazululwe!
Silent3
(15,266 posts)I've gotten the best results with European languages. Trying to translate from Chinese, in particular, usually yields weird and unintentionally funny results.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Read in the San Franscisco Chronicle that the highest turnout in Chinatown was for when they got to vote for President Obama. Hardly any Chinatown Chinese voted for Republicans. Its thanks to many Chinese young people who registered as Democrats got their parents and grandparents to vote. DO YOU KNOW what a difference it would make to HAVE MORE CHINESE DEMOCRATS on DU? THE FACT that the mayor of San Francisco, is a Chinese American Democrat is amazing enough.
ED LEE.
How much stronger would it be, to have MORE ASIAN Americans on this website. People who can contribute to the conversation. Yet if people say They are not wanted here... what a shame that would be.
Silent3
(15,266 posts)I'm fine with people posting in Chinese, or any other language.
I'm just saying that automated translation isn't going to be of much help in aiding communication between people who don't understand each others languages.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)of what happened a few years ago in San Francisco. Mayor LEE is the result of that action. All the Asian community are proud of him. We had a major setback with Senator YEE and the stupid stuff he did. He gave the Asian community a black eye. It gave the racists the chance and point ..and say negative things about Asian politicians..and "how corrupt they are can't be trusted". We need our representatives too, our voice in the Democratic process. If you want more people to come to the Democratic party you need people who are willing to work and discuss stuff openly with everyone in the communities. Not just the majority who are still running things. What does this have to do with anything? Maybe a lot, maybe nothing.
treestar
(82,383 posts)To put it all on that. And now they are trying to make it xenophobic. At the least, one should get several posters asking what do you mean, I didn't understand that. Or ignore them. This is trumped up victimization. I'll post something few understand and then whine about xenophobia when someone says something. Like you would sit in a room and someone could start talking in Latin and you're supposed to sit there and listen to them show off, presumably.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)this is about your needs. changing DU in the way you describe to suit your needs would make this place worse, not better.
you and the others spouting "English only" are making this place worse, not better.
you yelled at a Japanese American poster for posting in another language when she didn't. you couldn't even be bothered to notice it was not the same Japanese American who posted in Japanese.
but you're self righteous even when you're outnumbered and totally wrong, as you are.
treestar
(82,383 posts)this who thing is ridiculous.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)words, Google doesn't translate it.
Google is "chotto baka" in that situation. (Little bit stupid)
https://translate.google.com/#ja/en/chotto%20baka
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Almost verbatim.
Of course maybe they sound similar because they claim the same gender, ethnicity, same command of Japanese, country of origin and country of current location.
Despite the similarities, these are all different people because they are all didn't screen names
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)I have no idea what your post is about.
packman
(16,296 posts)really,really alot - English is a made up language of bits and pieces from this and that - mostly German and French with Latin roots thrown in the mix. Probably one of the most dynamic languages in the ability to adapt, incorporate, and plain-out steal from other languages est-ce pas or am I stirring up a shitschturm my amigos?
liberal N proud
(60,344 posts)Si l'affiche veut que vous lisiez, ils vont le mettre en anglais. Sinon c'est un complot.
Iggo
(47,565 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Than you run the risk of people not understanding what you mean - we all have access to Google Translate, but it's not always ideal.
English Original - "English is an OK language, but it can be very confusing in some respects."
Japanese Google Translation - 英語もOKな言語ですが、それはいくつかの点で非常に混乱することができます。
English Google Translation - English is also a language that is OK, but it can be very confusing at some point.
If you speak English you might be better off doing your own translation. That said I do think forums in other languages are a great idea.
Bryant
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)and I have to say it bothers me.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I find it to be highly offensive. Not just for ESL speakers, but for those with different writing styles or poor grammar also. Attacking someone for any of that is pretty low. I have always considered ESL speakers to be one step ahead of the game. I have respect for those who can communicate in multiple languages, even if not perfect. It is an admirable quality.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)particularly toward posters in the Muslim world who have participated here.
JustAnotherGen
(31,889 posts)Myelye is from France - and I sometimes respond to that poster with a little French. We have a few posters here in non English speaking countries who bring so much to the board. The teasing about less than perfect grammar is not necessary.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)This post was hidden: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=800210
and quite a subthread of heated fisticuffs ensued.
Jury results
Yaban'na mikai hito
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=800210
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Innpropriate to post anything in another language without providing a translation.
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri May 9, 2014, 05:36 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: My rough translation reads, "There's a potential Donkey Kong kill screen coming up. If you're interested."
You're welcome alerter.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Indeed, why deliberately post in a language hardly anyone will understand, without translating? The poster is certainly fluent in English. I'm not angry about it, unlike the alerter, but don't see any point in it here.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The is an English web site. Out of courtesy to the readers, the poster should stick with English. I think it is inappropriate to post a message here that almost no one understands. It might be a perfectly acceptable post. But, who knows?
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)So than No OTHER language SHOULD be acceptable. NO Spanish, no French, No German, No Latin, No Yiddish, No Swedish, No Gaelic, NO Portuguese, NO Russian, No Romanian, No Turkish, No Greek, No Hebrew, .... but wait... all those languages can be translated by GOOGLE translate...
OKAY than JUST no Japanese, No Thai, NO Mandarin, NO Cantonese, No Vietnamese, NO Korean, No Indian dialecs... SO TELL ME WHY THESE languages should be Excluded???
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)I wonder why it bothers some so much? Hell many of the posts written in English here can't be understood by many DU-ers either.
bluesbassman
(19,379 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)note that his/her status is "Active but temporarily unable to post (Reason: Transparency page is displayed)".
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)one of whose usernames is a reference to Lafayette, La., the capital of Cajun French country!
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Or even Cajun..there goes all those tasty recipes in the cooking and baking Groups!!! No French cuisines either!!! NO soup for you!!
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)puis non.
wandy
(3,539 posts)mentally place any op written in a language I can not read on ignore.
Wounded Bear
(58,709 posts)Freedom is sometimes just that...freedom.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)I'm not seeing the point of posting in some other language most people can't read anyway. The whole point of posting anything is because you have something to say that you want most other people to read.
On DU2 (haven't looked on DU3) there was something said by the Admin that posts should be in English so that the majority could read them. Makes perfect sense to me.
treestar
(82,383 posts)But watch out for being charged with xenophobia!!
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)sarisataka
(18,770 posts)Itewray in igpay atinlay
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)issue. Even if it were in English only, whose English would be considered acceptable? I got a post hidden and eventually locked out of my own thread because I used a word the feminist language Gestapo here deemed "a bad word". Never mind the word, which is in the dictionary and not as slang, is derived from Germanic and Saxon roots.
I have seen some of the worst grammatical errors out of the keyboards of those same critics of how others express themselves as well. So whose English will be acceptable?
LTR
(13,227 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)LTR
(13,227 posts)hatrack
(59,592 posts)WASHINGTON, DCIn a move designed to make the United States seem more "bad-assed and scary in a quasi-heavy-metal manner," Congress officially changed the nation's name to the Ünited Stätes of Ämerica Monday. "Much like Mötley Crüe and Motörhead, the Ünited Stätes is not to be messed with," said Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK). An upcoming redesign of the Ämerican flag will feature the new name in burnished silver wrought in a jagged, gothic font and bolted to a black background. A new national anthem is also in the works by composer Glenn Danzig, tentatively titled "Howl Of The She-Demon."
http://www.theonion.com/articles/united-states-toughens-image-with-umlauts,4230/
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)"feminist language Gestapo" is a nice new twist on it. You should send that to Rush Limbaugh.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I bet you couldn't wait to get online and compare what I said to Rush Limbaugh. Instant censorship.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)and turned it into another airing of your grievance with some feminists here.
Are you saying that it didn't occur to you that calling them "feminist language Gestapos" was a nod to the vile term "feminazi?"
Cleita
(75,480 posts)all be accurate and if you want to use the Nazi reference it would be the feminist WORD Nazis not feminazis. Also feminists don't hold the franchise on censorship in the world at large, but are the only faction here on DU who are militant about it to the point of gang alert assaults and efforts to get their pet adversaries, who fight back against censorship, PPrd.
So since foreign language is now being targeted it appears this is an outgrowth of that censorship movement. Once DU is forced into lockstep into only one language and only approved words in that language, what was once the soul of DU, is gone and the trolls will declare a victory.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Using it in combination with the word feminist is a bit too close to the right wing epithet.
As for feminists here being the only ones militant about certain word usage, that's just ridiculous. Use some of the viler terms for African-Americans or gays and see how many alerts fly.
I don't know about "gang alert assaults" but I'll wager far more than just feminists here will hit the alert button when vile terms for women are used too.
You've been here a long time. A long list of words could get a post removed under DU2.
As for gang alert assaults, I trust that you've taken that up with Skinner.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Who decides what is vile and what isn't? THAT is the crux of the problem.
Also, about the police references of various types of police, let me say, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, maybe it's a duck.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Thanks for acknowledging that you were calling them feminist Nazis.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)one of your number would. Making references like Gestapo is common usage for authoritarianism. It's known as a metaphor.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)What number would that be? Are you accusing me of being part of this alleged gang of alerters who apparently stalking you?
I hope not, because that's ridiculous.
And yet again, you're admitting that your choice to pair the word feminist with Gestapo was intended to provoke a response, apparently from this alleged gang out to get you.
Sorry to disappoint, Cleita. I'm not part of any alert button gang. I have disagreed with you in threads on feminist topics and probably will continue to do so.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)But if I was on a jury for a post that paired up the words feminist and Gestapo, I'd vote to hide.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)reserving my right to use the words I want to best convey my ideas and I don't need a word police jumping on me every time they read something not there because of their list of in their mind dirty words. I knew it would provoke a response though. However, I refuse to be told what words to use.
You were the one who jumped to the feminazis conclusion and you were the one to compare me to Rush Limbaugh although the only thing Rush does have going for him is his ability to use words and phrases effectively.
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)If you had a post hidden, it was because a DU jury decided it was unacceptable. DU juries are not stacked with feminist Gestapo.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)So that was eleven alerts the juries didn't rule against. That's not a coincidence. I know about the alerts because jurors on those alerts alerted me.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)They have no skin in the game so why should they post and comment on what does not impact them?
In the end it is up to the owners whims seeing that they are the ones who determine what can an cannot be said here.
DU is not a free speech zone.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Ark_from_Ark who lives in Japan should not be allowed to reply or post messages here? There are many DUers who live in OTHER COUNTRIES, AND YOU ARE SAYING TO THEM, GO TAKE your comments else where? IS that what you are saying? Some of these DUers have to work in other countries, and live there because its too far to commute. You are going to take away their voice??
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)One in China...a few else where who should have a voice here.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)Living in the USA but can vote in us elections and non citizens who live in the USA or in another country who are not eligible to vote in us elections.
If you cannot vote in us elections you should not comment on us domestic policies
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)THIS is it.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)Even comment on them?
How would you like it if Americans came to Japanese political sites and discussed Japanese domestic policy and how bad they were? Would you want non citizens commenting on what does not impact them?
I have no problem with non Americans commenting on us international policies because it impactes the world.
randome
(34,845 posts)It's easier to think outside the box if you're already outside it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
Response to randome (Reply #59)
Post removed
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)You have NEVER GONE TO THE Japanese news papers and seen the comments posted by Americans? Really? I suggest you start with this one: http://www.japantoday.com/ Read the stories and then read the comments. They are not all from people living in JAPAN.
Maybe you don't like the United States to be Criticized for its foreign policy overs seas ? But we are not living in a bubble over here, well...with the EXCEPTION OF FOX NEWS VIEWERS. What we do affects the world and believe it or not, the world has a right to comment about what we do. WE want Freedom of speech here but its not always available else where. If someone from Sudan speaks English and has access to the internet, why shouldn't they come and read and comment on DU.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)Please look up the definitions of us domistic policy and us foreign policy
I have no problem what so ever with anyone commenting on us foreign policy
You are confusing the two
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)On domestic as well as foreign US policy. Yours on the other hand, I think I will skip. You just don't seem like a person whose opinion I could respect. Sorry.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)tkmorris
(11,138 posts)We've already established that you care an inordinate amount what other people do. That is the reason we are having this conversation. Perhaps you should extend that "live and let live" philosophy to everyone, including our Japanese American friend.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)Here which I do not agree with however I do not stop nor attack non Americans for commenting on us domestic policy.
I am also against an English only DU too
I just feel if you don't live here, except expats, you don't get a say in how the place is run
uppityperson
(115,679 posts)Mandated minimum wage. What pops into my mind is outsourcing is affected by minimum wage in the USA and that affects a hell of a lot of people in other countries.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)BOOM GOES the Dynamite!!!
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)wow, you somehow make it worse.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)Any us citizen in any place on earth can comment on us domestic policy. Non us citizen should have no say is us domestic policy
Do you understand the differences betwee us domestic policies and us foreign policies?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Are you a Japanese citizen?
9. I agree I would not let US meat or most other food products into Japan or anyother country
The majority of American food available in supermarkets is flavorless, chemical laden, crap and is killing those who eat it.
America could lead the world in producing high quality food but instead America produces crap food in bulk.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)Perhaps you do not see the difference.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)HUGS CREEKDOG!!
randome
(34,845 posts)Take a deep breath, Exposethefrauds.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)Do posters need your permission to make comments now?
Is there some magic threshold on post count that is acceptable to you?
If so please add it to the TOS
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Enjoy your stay.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)They don't and you are rude.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)tkmorris
(11,138 posts)I find it best to confront ignorance directly and immediately. Otherwise people get the impression you agree with it.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)uppityperson
(115,679 posts)socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)can affect the world at large.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Don't see the harm in them at all. We could learn from that.
bobduca
(1,763 posts)And how would you enforce your rule? National ID Cards for all posters?
Heidi
(58,237 posts)whose lives are directly impacted by US domestic policy?
If that's what you mean, let me just say this: DU's owners found my Swiss husband perfectly acceptable as a DU2 mod and, now, a DU3 host. So I think that addresses your concern.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)hunter
(38,327 posts)I always post in Hunter.
Which is any damned language, grammar, or spelling I please.
I own my language, it doesn't own me.
Da kin tak dat a di lik..
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Instead of taking it to a Jury???
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Why should anyone here be required to ASK what someone has said in a post they wrote in a foreign language that they KNOW most people here can't read? The whole POINT to posting anything is because you have something to say that you want most people here to read... unless of course the reason to post in a language you know most people here can't read is to speak to only those few that can read it thereby being intentionally rude to most posters here. There's a place to have private conversations which can be had in any language one pleases and it isn't in the forums.
Seriously, just what is the point to posting anything in any of the forums that you know the vast majority here can't read? And why should anyone be required to ask what you said because they can't read that language? It's obvious that if you wanted to be understood you'd post in a language that most people can read, and if you didn't want to be understood by most people here there's no point in posting in that other language at all unless to be intentionally rude.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)who posts in Spanish, French, Portuguese, Yiddish, German, Hungarian, Russian, Greek, Turkish, Arabic, Indian, Native American Dialects, Italian, Swedish, Norwegian, Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Romanian, Latin, Hawaiian, AND ESPECIALLY Mandarin, Cantonese, Thai, Tagalog, Korean, Nepalese, and ALL THE OTHER LANGUAGES I happened to miss.... Go on!! Tell them its AMERICA DAMN IT , SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)You can pretend all you like that this is something about "Americanism" or xenophobia. I already told you what it was. And it makes no difference if you were using some secret numerical code or whispering in peoples' ears. It's just rude to post in public forums in any way that you know the vast majority of posters can't read.
Again, tell me WHY you find it necessary to post anything in the forums that you know can not be understood by anyone but a select few when the whole point to posting anything in any of the forums is that you have something to say that you WANT understood by most people.
Ark had to guts to admit that he sometimes posted in Japanese because he was INTENDING for those posts to be private and not understood by the vast majority of posters here thereby using the public forums as private email which is undoubtedly RUDE. So, what's your reasoning?
And yes, OF COURSE I would find it rude if anyone else posted in any other language or code that the vast majority couldn't understand. DU has a private email service for private conversations, and having private conversations in public is FUCKING RUDE.
If this were a discussion board used by the vast majority of Japanese speakers I would expect that the people posting would RESPECT that and use Japanese when posting so that the vast majority of the users could understand what's being said.
What we're talking about here is intentional rudeness. I'd love to be bilingual or even better multi-lingual. One of my brothers is a language prodigy, and as of over two decades ago knew 17 languages including sign language (and by now who knows how many he's added to the list), and frankly I'm envious of his gift. I'm even more envious that he constantly travels the world experiencing and seeing things I never will, and could listen to him talk about all the places he's been and the things he's seen and done there all day. He just got back from another trip to Ireland 3 days ago and I've already grilled him about everything about his trip fascinated by all he experienced and wishing I could have also.
This isn't about xenophobia or idiots that believe people should only speak English. It's about intentionally being rude by posting in WHATEVER way on a public message board knowing that the vast majority of users can't understand what is said whether it's in a foreign language, numerical code, audio code blips and bleeps or ANY other way that the vast majority can't understand it. It's no different than being in a group of people while whispering in someone's ear so that no one but that selected person knows what is being said. Everyone knows that in that situation the polite thing to do is remove yourself from the group and have the private conversation with the other person in PRIVATE because doing it in public is offensive and rude.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)its Nasty We don't want you under our big tent unless you speak English. I have a suggestion. I want you to march into the ASK THE Administration section and ASK SKINNER IF WE CAN make it a policy THAT no, absolutely NO FOREIGN LANGUAGE is to BE tolerated. IN FACT, ask him to REMOVE the Asian group, the Hispanic group, Ask him to Remove any of those groups who receive special privileges of having their own group...because damn it, we are ALL AMERICANS. YOU should also make sure to not allow any Native American languages on DU cause its rude and in code, and remove the groups too so they won't be tempted to speak in their languages.
This to me is just as bad as this:
IF you want to make it your goal of instead of reaching out these communities locking them out of the Democratic Process, I guess you have that power. GO to Skinner and HAVE HIM MAKE A RULE... NO, absolutely no Foreign languages on DU. PERIOD.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)I just explained to you why it has nothing to do with xenophobia. Keep telling yourself that. You're still wrong. It's no more xenophobic than if you were posting in some secret numerical code rather than a foreign language you knew that only a select few here can understand.
If you want to have these secret private conversations with people than do it in PRIVATE where you can use whatever language or secret code you like.
Simple as that.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)NO SECRET CODES ON DU, NO FOREIGN LANGUAGES... TAKE THAT CRAP AND TAKE it elsewhere, THIS IS AMureka!!! I GET you perfectly.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)>>>CLICK<<<
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)WAS THAT A SECRET CODE?
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)I've been at DU a long time and seen people post in foreign languages, but they provide translations. I'm taking a guess that it's because they want people who only speak English to understand what was said. Nothing xenophobic about that at all. While English is the main language here, there's some slight and not so slight variations between American English and ours that I try to keep in mind when I post at DU, because I want as many DUers as possible to understand what I'm saying. There's this word that gets used here. Sometimes it's peppered in conversations because here it's used casually and its usage is very different, but if I used it here at DU where most DUers are Americans, I'd get a string of hidden posts and Skinner would probably march me out the door, coz it's one of the worst words to use in the US.
I see deliberately posting in another language without a translation at DU knowing that many people won't understand it kind of similar to how it'd be if my two best friends and me went to lunch and they suddenly cut me out of the conversation by talking in Vietnamese and snickering. I'd be sitting there wondering if they were saying something bad about me or something, and I'd think it was a bit rude of them, especially if once it was pointed out to them, they refused to see anything wrong with them having done it in the first place. I'd probably call them that word I was just telling you about that I'll never utter here at DU and walk out on them...
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)This is the heart of it isn't it. I do have Vietnamese and Chinese friends who talk with their friends in their respective languages and I don't freak out about this... why is it you and many people do. YOU SEEM TO HAVE THIS Obsession that all the conversations are all about you. Why is that?
I can't tell you how many chat rooms I have gone into with my Asian friends and we talk in Japanese, and people in the room freak the hell out ..thinking WE MUST BE TALKING ABOUT THEM. ...WHY ELSE WOULD SOMEONE SPEAK IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE...BUT TO GO IN TO A ROOM AND SECRETLY LAUGH AND SNICKER ABOUT THE SILLY PEOPLE WHO DON'T SPEAK OUR LANGUAGE.
WHERE does this paranoia come from?? Because none of my Asian friends have this feeling. We just back out of the conversation and do other things while our friends comfortably talk about stuff in their lives in Indonesian or whatever... BUT THE REASON ITS RUDE TO you is because you think it must be about you.
You said : "I'd probably call them that word I was just telling you about that I'll never utter here at DU and walk out on them... " And why would you use an inflammatory word, like what it probably is. Would it make you feel better to call them that word. Its like the other day I was in a chat room and someone called me a "Chink" Now I tried to explain to him that "Chink" was an inflammatory push at Chinese people, and that I was Japanese... did he call me a "Jap" or "Nip"? NO.... HE JUST SAID, "Y'ALL LOOK A LIKE TO ME" I am sure it made him feel better to say that... and He probably didn't think about it later..and say..."Gee, I probably shouldn't have said that to that lady, oh well...she will get over it"
Why is it that many of those sexually attracted to me come up with the thing.."Well I never had an Asian before, all y'all are so exotic" I dated a few people who admitted me they dated me because i was Asian... I don't know, maybe they were curious if I had my lady bits in the same place as other girls, and YES WE DO. LIKE MY EX GIRL FRIEND KISSED ME ONCE AND SAID, "OOH you taste like wasabi". Why? Because I am Japanese? I hadn't had anything Wasabi flavored in a about two weeks. Why didn't she say I tasted like water melon, or candy canes.... she had to use Wasabi. Did she think that was the only flavor I could understand. And, why did it shock her when I told her I like Mexican food. Is there some kinda taboo that Asians can't like anything but Egg Foo Young?
wow... really.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)It's not paranoid to wonder why in the situation I described whether they're saying something about me. Note that wondering why isn't the same as thinking it must be about me.
It is in the US, but it isn't that bad here. I think I explained that in the post yr replying to, didn't I?
I'm not sure why yr reacting with such OTT hostility (I don't appreciate being told I'm obsessed about myself by someone I don't know from a bar of soap) to being asked why you just couldn't have included an English translation in yr post by talking about what's happened to you in chat rooms where the chat room reaction is actually racist. Because the former isn't racist at all. It's common sense.
I dunno. We all get a hidden post eventually. Most of us learn from it, we understand that juries are random things made up of different people each time, and even if we think it was a shit hide, we move on. While I wouldn't have hidden the post, I wouldn't have bothered going off on a google quest to obtain a piss poor translation either. I'd have skimmed past it figuring that if it was something worth reading, and the person posting it can speak English, then they should have posted a translation in English knowing they're on a board where English is the common language...
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)One word we use in chat is a word that describes a person disappearing from the room. The word we might say is "Poof!" Its usually served up with a sound affect that sounds like a quick departure. One of my friends from the UK started laughing. I said whats so funny? He said, "You said poof!" and I said, "yes, so?". He said over here Poof is a slang word for a Homosexual. They call them a "poof". I find you Americans have some rather funny word usage.
= = really. You asked me why didn't I just provide a translation in the begging and avoid all this Hoopla. (Hopes that doesn't mean anything hostile in your version of English.) The thing was in reading the story,. I have gotten mad in the past with politicians. I have said.. baka, Doji , manuke!!! People l assumed i was swearing in Japanese, and some even asked me what it meant. I told them...
(baka=ignorant, Doji=clumsy. manuke= stupid.) But NO ONE.. JUMPED on it and flagged a Report, not ever before.
This is the first time I have ever, ever... ever...been flagged for anything. Period. Mostly cause people would say..Hey Yui, what does that mean? BUT there are some people on this website, who live to throw something at the Jury. Maybe they are republican infiltrators who are getting back at the Slant-eyed "Foreigner" who calls herself an American and a Democrat..
DU was never this savage before, that people would just go from post to post hitting the Alert Button.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Our slang is very similar to that in the UK, so I did think that exchange between you two was funny. I sometimes see words or names (like Randy!) that set me off snickering because they mean something different here than in the US. I sent a link to an Australian slang dictionary to an American DU friend to educate him on the finer points of slang
Please don't think I don't have some sympathy for you copping yr first ever hide. It was a 4-3 hide if I'm remembering correctly, and most likely another jury would have gone the other way or even done a 7-0 leave. It's so random and inconsistent that it'd do my head in trying to figure out any logic in jury decisions..
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)at this time of the morning I can be be. You are so hostile this morning. I bet you slept longer than I have, as I have been up all night. I suppose next you will be demanding I go to bed?
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)You realize your NON ENGLISH words could be grounds for a Jury Hide, after all that is what most of those people who said "Yes" want. Someone else called them Code Words... (Sorta like what came out of German submarines during world war II) Maybe not as bad... more like what came out of Spudnick in what ever year that was.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Nazi... NO SOP FOR YOU!!!
JUST IN CASE.... its passed my 3 and half hours, and I get to log off and take a shower. Any anger filled threads at me, please hold them for a twenty four hour period and then forward them to the Asian group where my secretary will likely take a message and translate it to Japanese and then back into Romaji ...which some people believe is a form of Klingon or ...something.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)and who can understand several other languages, I think you might be overreacting to Yui's post in Japanese. Sure, not everyone can understand it, but it was not hurtful to any DUer, Democrat, or anyone else who has any sense of decency in them. She was venting about the brutality and barbarianism of administering a severe punishment (1000 lashes + 10 years incarceration) for little more than discussing religion. Perhaps she felt uncomfortable saying what she wanted to say in English, but she wanted to vent nonetheless.
I myself occasionally post some things here in Japanese. Most of the time, if I don't include an English translation, they are just semi-private mesages to whomever I'm replying to, and anyone else who can read them. They are not earth-shattering pronouncements. If I come across a message that is in a language I don't understand, I often just skip over it. It's not that hard to do. If it is something that arouses my curiosity, I enter it in Google Translate.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Look, there is about a handful of all the thousands of posters here that can read Japanese. As one of those special few that can of course it's doesn't bother you BECAUSE YOU CAN READ IT. And if you yourself are making these PRIVATE (not semi-private) messages in the forums where they don't belong than it's rude to everyone else that can't read it and has to be bothered by using a translation site that makes mincemeat out of the translation anyway.
Private or semi-private (whatever that's supposed to mean) messages are for the email system here and they did that way so that people would be able to easily read other peoples' posts without having to jump through hoops and so that others wouldn't be insulted by people using the forums to conduct their private messages publicly and practically in code.
If you can't understand why it's rude to post on a message board that the whole point is because you have something to say that you WANT all other members to read in a language that you know most people can't and specifically to conduct a private conversation in public than you have a social skills problem.
It's SIMPLE, if you purposely don't want the vast majority of posters to be able to understand your post by posting in a language you know the vast majority of people can't understand in the public forums it's RUDE. The forums are not where private conversations are held for the simple fact that it is recognizably rude to all the other posters that can't understand your foreign language private "code".
Yes, I'm well aware that sometimes you posted in Japanese without a translation and for awhile had you on ignore because of it - because it was intentionally rude to be posting in the public forums using a language that you knew the vast majority couldn't understand in order to intentionally exclude the vast majority of posters from being in on those private conversations you were so rudely carrying out in public. And the only reason to do that as far as I can see is make all the other people seeing your "coded" posts wonder what you were talking about and why they were being excluded.
Just keep your private conversations private like everyone else here does so as not be be intentionally rude to everyone else that you know can't read these foreign language public posts. It's just as rude and intentionally hurtful to be at a public gathering and whispering into the ears of a scant few at that gathering in order to exclude most everyone else from a private conversation that it's RUDE to be carrying out in public knowing that everyone else is going to be wondering why they are being intentionally excluded from the conversation. If you wouldn't do something like that at a public gathering of people because you know it's rude than don't do it here because DU is also a public gathering, and of course you know that. And if you didn't know that carrying out private conversations in public by using a language you know the vast majority can't understand, using a private code that you know only a select few can understand or whispering into a select few's ears is rude which you should have learned as a child than I suggest you learn it now and just keep your private conversations private as everyone else seems to know is the mannerly thing to do.
So again, WHY are you and one or two others wanting to carry out private conversations publicly by using Japanese knowing that doing so excludes most everyone else from these private conversations that you have publicly and when you know that there is a private message system here for the purpose of having private conversations? WHY if not to be intentionally exclusive and therefore rude?
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)If Yui or Kimi or another Japanese speaker posts something in the Lounge saying that they're sick or down or something, and I say, in a post that is directed specifically at them, "Hayaku genki ni natte" or "Ganbatte!", that is NOT rude. The whole world does not have to read that message. There are plenty of other people here who have discovered that they speak a common language besides English and converse in that language for a little bit, and it doesn't bother me in the least, even if I don't understand what they're saying. Not in the least. If I don't understand the language, I just skip over it, or Google Translate it if it sounds like it could be interesting. It's not that hard to do.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)in public in a way that no one else can understand. If you want to talk privately then DO IT IN PRIVATE and use the private mail system. Otherwise post so that everyone else can understand what is being said.
For crying out loud it's SIMPLE. If you're going to say something that you know no one else can understand than DO IT IN PRIVATE. To do otherwise is unquestionably RUDE.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)If you feel that strongly about it, then just put all of us sometime furrin language speakers on ignore.
そうすると、その問題が解決できる!
which is Japanese for "There, problem solved!"
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)And you might want to know that internet code that shows up in place of Japanese on my computer that you just posted can't be put into any translation widget and that no one including me should HAVE TO in the first place.
One more time... have your private conversations in private like everyone else does.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Blue_Adept
(6,402 posts)Cause that's totally rude to do in public as well.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Conversations between people out in public but not PART of that public is fine. How is it that you can't see the difference between the two? When posting on a message board one is ADDRESSING the users - all of them. When one is out in public and having a conversation with someone they're out with they aren't ADDRESSING those people that happen to be in earshot.
This isn't rocket science.
Blue_Adept
(6,402 posts)We're not talking about opening posts here to begin with. But subthread conversations.
Two people go off on a tangent and talk in a different language. That's all it is. And it is the same as you going off on someone in public. Heck, in a group of friends this happens often enough. I see this with my kids regularly as we have a good mix of English and Portuguese speaking friends and while her group is hanging out, sometimes a couple of them will split off to talk about something amid the group, sometimes because it's easier to get across to them what they're saying in that tongue, other times just because.
Besides, just because a post is on a message board, does not mean it's addressed TO YOU. You're demanding that all posts be made accessible TO YOU. Think about that.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)doesn't mean that your limitations should limit us.
limit yourself.
just because you can't think of a reason, doesn't mean there isn't one. the sad thing is not that you would try to find out what the reason is, not that you disagree with the reason(s), the sad thing is that you have already decided that because you can't think of a reason, none exists or could exist.
most people do post in English here, there are exceptions. "English only" says the exceptions aren't allowed.
don't run with that crowd, they suck.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Not sure why you are shouting at me.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)I got heated because, it could be that simple. I really believe there are a number of DUers who don't want foreign speaking people here. The Democratic Party wants allies against Republicans, and their Tea Baggers. If Chinese Americans are not welcome here, and not welcome to the Republican party... They will just shake their heads, give up and go back to Chinatown where they live and say...forget it, we don't have to help anyone.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Blue_Adept
(6,402 posts)Obviously better for the romance languages than others. I spend about half my day doing Japanese research for work and some of it is horrendous. But enough of it gives me the clues I need to find what I need. I'm hoping for better in the next couple of years. But there's just so much nuance and quirkiness about it, particularly Japanese with meanings and context, that it simply makes me appreciate my translator friends all the more.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)on google. Often times, the answer will come in someone else's question some where on the web.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Seems very self entitled and attention seeking. You knew people would not understand and comment and then became outraged that they did react at all, and called them xenophobic for even having an issue. And the jury agreed.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)ANY TIME IN THE PAST WHEN PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I SAID, THEY WOULD ASK ME.... I didn't mind TELLING ANYONE.
BUT NO... SOMEONE HAD TO CHANGE IT... TO ..FUCK IT, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE SAID..REPORT HER!!! LET THE DAMN JURY DEAL WITH IT.
YOU will be in this position some day. YOU WILL SAY something and the jury will have to decide.. Even if what I said was not directed at anyone or DU... BUT yeah, go ahead,.,.with the Xenophobic attitude on DU... it looks to me like the POLL SAYS you are in the wrong.
What is it now...101 to 11 people?? Yeah ... there you go.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I still don't get what your point was in doing that, and then getting enraged when people said anything about it.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)MY POINT WAS i got upset at WHAT those guys were doing in SAUDI ARABIA. I SPOKE out in JAPANESE in anger at them. NOW IT LOOKS LIKE I HAVE TO HAVE my own personal translator following me around to tap me on the shoulder and say HEY YUI...THIS IS AMERICA SPEAK ENGLISH, or someone will have a fit .
Maybe this what while privilege is all about. KNOWING that you could post something in french and NO ONE WOULD SAY BOO...BUT A JAPANESE GIRL says something in JAPANESE, AND its ...GO BACK TO JAPAN if you wanta talk like that.
treestar
(82,383 posts)you are a victim of xenophobia. I see that.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)IF YOU CAN'T speak or won't speak ENGLISH you ARE NOT WELCOME in the DEMOCRATIC pARTY? The tent is not big enough for everyone? wow...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I have seen posts in german, yiddish,french and spanish here. I have posted things in German and Spanish on occasion and recieved assistance with german grammar from a kind member of intelligence.
I think this english only rule doesn't apply to certain european languages but does apply to other languages.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)an African language on here? Maybe a slight comment? Would people ask, "Whats that mean?" or just send it to a Jury to hide. To me its almost like them telling us to STAY IN THE ASIAN GROUP if you want to talk like that. But you know, eventually even there...someone will post something in Chinese, and it will get voted 5-1 to hide.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Straight to jury. It's scary to some people to face the reality that the world is changing and the democratic party needs to change with the times, not start sounding like conservatives and telling folks to speak english or leave.
You would think we were in England the way some are trying to enforce english as the only option, not the 'great melting pot' of immigrants from different lands.
If i come upon a post in a language that i don't know written to another poster, i usually just skip it unless i feel super nosy and just have to know. Then i just copy and paste it into google translate and figure it out from there. Usually though, it's spanish or french and those two are super easy to figure put just by looking at them. German too. Nobody seems to make a big stink about those posts. I find that queer and just a bit xenophobic.
If it makes you feel better, you can say anything to or about black people on here and get away with it. Or a feminist. And now apparently Asians are fair game too.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)elasticity and the walls are feeling a bit too cramped. Years back we were welcome on DU...they wanted us here, it made us feel more diversified. Now its starting to making DU SUCK.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)by the way I have really enjoyed your postings very much. I only wish my writing skills were better. I guess people still have a problem with my English as well.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Your english is fine and i don't know why anyone should have problems with it. Accordong to some of the English, we haven't spoken english in America for many years. And we spell things incorrectly from a brittish perspective.
panader0
(25,816 posts)signed, panader0
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Saying that might get a jury decision to hide. Meh...
DFW
(54,437 posts)Alla börde veta att svenska inte är ett så svårt språk, eller hur?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)The English language lends itself very well to conflict.
Yo Quiero!
Silent3
(15,266 posts)Then again, effective communication in English is often difficult too, so how much worse can it get?
herding cats
(19,567 posts)If it were a language I don't speak I'd probably try to translate it just to make sure it didn't say something offensive if I were on such a jury. If I couldn't find out what it said, I guess I'd leave the jury.
Juries are weird. I've messed up as a jurist before and realized it after the fact, which I guess makes me weird, too.
TexasTowelie
(112,422 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)I saw that. I also noticed that the posters screen name was entirely appropriate for them.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)tkmorris
(11,138 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Cause taking offense and alerting for someone posting a short blurb in a different language is a very right wing kind of thing to do. I'm surprised the jury went along with it.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Xithras
(16,191 posts)I'm all for having a multilingual site, but they are a big problem when a post is alerted. If you post something in Hindi, and someone alerts on it claiming that it contains inappropriate content, and my non-Hindi speaking self gets stuck on that jury, then I simply have to take the word of the alerter that the post is inappropriate. I'm fluent in English and Spanish, can communicate passably in French, and know enough Russian and German to get the gist of a conversation, but I'd be lost on the Asian languages and most of the worlds other languages. I could theoretically cut and paste it into Google Translate or something to try and figure out what a post says, but that method is imprecise, time consuming, and generally not something that most jurors are interested in doing.
If DU had built in language translation features things would be a bit different, but as it is now, inviting non-English speakers to use the site heavily would simply invite abuse. Internet trolls are not limited to the English speaking world, and juries can only clear them out if they can understand what is being posted.
A multilingüe "Democratic Underground"* sería una buena, pero el sitio no está preparado para ello.
*As an aside, does anyone know how would you translate Democratic Underground into Spanish? Democratico Luchadoro? Democratico Clandestino? I'd assume that it would be the latter, but I'm not sure. I couldn't figure it out and stuck in in a translator to see what it would give me, and I got Metro Democrático or Democrático Bajo Tierra, which both made me LOL hard. Stupid computers.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Alerters do that for English posts all of the time.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Ask the person what they said. I have made statements many times ..comments in Japanese and people asked me...What did you say? I tell them. I don't mind.
THERE IS A HUGE PROBLEM HERE. I have faced this many times in chat rooms, where I went with a friend to go practice my Japanese and people would scream at us... "SPEAK ENGLISH!! DAMN CHINKS!! SPEAK ENGLISH OR GET OUT...STOP TALKING ABOUT US... and that's it...right there in a nut shell.
People thought we came into the chat room to talk about them behind their back. They hated it that we didn't speak English in front of them and they would freak out. Often times we were booted from a room, just for saying a few words in Japanese.
DU has bright people here. If they see something they don't understand they ask questions. Though lately they just JUMP ON IT AND SEND IT TO a jury that has NO CLUE...NOR will bother to research what was said. ITS just easier to hide the thread ...and this gives the impression that Foreigners are not welcome here, including PEOPLE WHO MAY BE registered Democrats in CHINATOWN, USA.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)I would never hide a post simply because it was written in a language other than English, but what if someone alerted a post and claimed that it contained something that violated the DU TOS? If the alerter was correct, then the poster probably would not be honest about the content of the post if asked, and it's unreasonable to ask juries to regularly translate non-English posts into English just to judge an alert.
I actually do wish that the admins would integrate a translation function into the site to make this sort of thing less of an issue. I live in an area with a Hispanic majority and know many first and second generation Hispanic Democrats for whom Spanish is still their primary language. I've long felt that by lacking any capability to handle and translate different languages, DU is excluding a large portion of the Democratic Party's own base. I absolutely agree that it would be better if the site were more multilingual, but the owners haven't provided the tools needed to make that happen effectively.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)I totally agree. On other hand there should be those people who are sufficient enough to translate something, if it is indeed against TOS. The problem is... when ever there is a posting that some one might comment in another language, people immediately think it must be either bad or about them. That's when people freak out... and start hitting the alert button.
AS I SAID ELSE WHERE...i got a bit excited and posted that comment in Japanese, and normally people might say, hey Yui..what did you say?? I would tell them... or Someone would translate it..because they know the language. There are several on here proficient enough to translate, and all one need do is go to the ASIAN group and ask .. But I am truthful enough, I would answer.
But people here were just too quick to deal with it, and its SO MUCH EASIER TO HIDE THE POST than to do anything about finding out what it meant. IF someone would have asked me...I would have told them. I post MANY JAPANESE SONGS IN THE LOUNGE sometimes and provide English lyrics. I HAVE NEVER gotten a complaint about that, and I know some music videos have been posted in Japanese without translation. No one bothered to ask for a translation. Which is why I do it now...especially after this whole affair.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The problem is there is no way to effectively deal with someone trolling the site in Thai.
They post a death threat against a politician and you say, "What did you say?"
And the troll says, "It means 'heavenly blessings to you'".
You put it into Google translate and it says "Go into the happy afterlife" and you think "okay, it means heavenly blessings I guess."
And what it actually says is "Drop dead, fool."
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 6, 2014, 03:53 AM - Edit history (2)
We used to have people coming into our Asian Chat room, speaking Japanese. My real Japanese friends would say.. Why is he from Japan and using a translator? Some times the words can have the same kind of meaning but are not the same. I will give you a perfect example.
In Japanese we cans say.. Watashi wa Sake o tabemasu.
I can also say .... Watashi wa Sake o Nomimasu.
.
Tabemasu means to eat. Nomimasu means to drink. How could I eat and drink Sake?? The answer is Sake can mean the alcoholic Rice drink, and Sake can mean Fresh Salmon. How do you tell between the two? Sake, the drink has a different Kanji (Chinese symbol) than Sake the fish.
If a translator messes up and a person wants to drink fresh Salmon... He will cause quite a bit of confusion.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)and you hadn't replied, in that time. The form you posted in was not translatable by Google. Your post did include an insult - apparently directed at Saudi Arabians, but what if someone had used the same insult, but directed it at all Muslims - which is a realistic scenario in that thread? Then it would be the kind of post that would need to go to a jury.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)DU.. I frankly didn't think it would be a problem. GUESS I KNOW BETTER HUH??? as FOR Insulting all Muslims...that is not my style. I am not A CHRISTIAN. I am a buddhist. As for Discrimination its not something I do, when I MYSELF have been called a JAP, Nip, Chink, Gook, Yellow Bastard, ...so do you THINK THAT DOES NOT AFFECT HOW PEOPLE WILL TREAT OTHERS when they THEMSELVES HAVE BEEN ABUSED? I don't have THAT ASIAN PRIVILEGE THAT I KEEP READING ABOUT. I do have a problem with CAPS..its my stupid computer..its small and tiny and my fingers don't always fit.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)If you use your title alone, Google Translate can cope with it - it gives "barbaric savage". But it can't translate the body of your post. What if that had said something about Muslims?
By the way, are you saying that Christians insult Muslims, but Buddhists never do? That's a broad brush itself. Buddhists are quite capable of anti-Muslim prejudice - look at what they've done in Sri Lanka and Myanmar in the past year.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)in the doctrines that are about peace. Yes and I say I am shinto, and that religion encouraged my ancestors to drop bombs on Peal Harbor, doesn't mean I believe that was a good idea either. I am not Sir Lankan or from Maynmar... I am not even JAPANESE in the sense that I was born here. But my ancestors certainly were. I was born in IN THE USA like most democrats. YOU KEEP ASKING ME ABOUT hypotheticals...what if that said something about Muslims? ...than I Suppose you must think I am a biggot as well.
I have said it often enough, ASK ME WHAT I SAID..I WON'T LIE TO You...we are SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE SAME DAMN TEAM...RIGHT? BUT AHHH no, no one is to be trusted on a democratic website... what does that say about DU and the people here who are trying to make a difference. That we are all untrustworthy and have hidden agendas and motives...
Its no wonder many of my Asian friends won't come here .. They are afraid to say anything without getting hammered on. I don't know why you put your hypotheticals on me... Again, it must be that ASIAN Privilege I keep reading about. I would love to hear a hypothetical why that posting was allowed to stand, where as my two sentences was not allowed. It must be open season on Asians maybe... And I guess anything I say to you will not be satisfactory to you... its fine. I can live with that fact there are some people on DU who simply don't want us under their tent. Do you think its the sriracha cooking smells? That's a hypothetical question, btw.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)You were effectively asked what it said, and it took you over three and a half hours to reply. That's the problem with other languages - they depend on having people who can read them around to translate. Other people have used little-known languages to insult groups or individuals on DU.
No, I don't think you are a bigot. But your remark seemed to say that we can tell you're not a bigot because you're Buddhist, not Christian.
As far as that awful 'Asian Privilege' thread goes, after a jury allowed it to stand, I alerted the hosts asking them to find a way to lock it because it was racist, and tried to put the case at length in the hosts forum and the thread (and finally got a post hidden when I told a DUer who said it was a joke that they didn't belong on DU).
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Once your thread is hidden, you are effectively locked out of any future conversations about the topic. Maybe you should look again and see that it was AsahinaKimi, who was fighting for me. She has been on DU longer than me and is more respected. The thread of the Asian Privilege is still alive and well. There are still fights going on there... and so while you may have got one post locked, its kind of like this whole thread. Two people were locked out of it.. because they said stuff that was over the top and disruptive.
As for Buddhism, while there may be problems in different parts the of the world it has some deeply held beliefs in regard to violence. Those who commit those kinds of violence do not seem to know, or remember the teachings they have learned. I can't say that the other three religions, of Christianity, Islam and Judaism are that much the same. There seem so many in this country who use it as a tool for hate against others. From the murder of Dr. Tiller to the GOD HATES FAGS group. You probably won't find any Buddhists in the Republican party...especially these days.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)You posted at 0646 GMT
psychopomp replied to you (#24), pointing out that since it was in Japanese, no-one understood, at 1352 GMT
The alert was sent at 1727 GMT
The jury finished, and the post was hidden, at 1736 GMT
From 1352 to 1727 is about 3 and a half hours.
AsahinaKimi didn't join the thread (with the translation) until after the hide.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)what about other limitations, like actually being in America?
hey, you want to limit things, why don't you want to limit things to just those in the USA?
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)and that becomes vital when juries can be involved.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)And if they DO understand it, provide the translation. The jury can verify as they wish, for most languages anyway. The tougher ones might be a tad beyond some jurors but unless someone is egregiously spamming the board with insults just because no one can translate than who cares?
treestar
(82,383 posts)And Google translate will do it instantly. Except that it's not perfect. The whole idea is unreasonable, and the idea it is xenophobic to have a language for a site is outrageously unreasonable.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)the Asian Privilege thread? unhidden.
the post saying a rape victim couldn't weigh in on a topic because they were a rape victim? unhidden.
the post of an innocuous phrase in Japanese? hidden.
please.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Glassunion
(10,201 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Skinner decided to heap some shame on the poster by saying it was "polite" to post in English, obviously saying that it wasn't polite that she posted an expression in Japanese.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12595961#post1
(the irony of Skinner's response, is that 1) this was clearly not an insult and 2) *I* was the one who received the foreign language insult (in Russian way back when) AND AND, when I posted it to expose the sender (who PM'd me with it) my post was hidden. So this was total bullshit.)
Utterly ridiculous especially in light of just two weeks before justifying to someone in the African American group (his one and only post in that group) that their post was hidden because they called someone racist, and that he didn't actually know whether or not what was posted was racist.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11876548#post88
That's right, he posted that he didn't know whether what was written was racist or not, but justifies hiding a post that calls another post's content (not author) racist. Yes, he was actually more concerned that a post was called racist than whether it was or not.
He should read a few of Martin Luther King's speeches. Maybe he could take him to task for calling things racist, because he sure as hell did, and rightly so.
You all best post in English and don't be calling things racist, even if they are. Be polite now.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Thank you. Well said.
CountAllVotes
(20,878 posts)magalor = great good luck in Gaelic ...
countryjake
(8,554 posts)GoCubsGo
(32,093 posts)It's not like GT and a myriad of other translators aren't available. I really don't understand why anyone would have an issue with the languages used here.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)with no translation at all, I wonder what the poster is intending. But I have no idea. I wouldn't alert and I'd probably find a translation site if asked to jury such a post. While many here do know other languages -- my French is pretty good as is my Spanish and I have limited German and Italian -- No one here knows every other language out there.
So without a translation, most people here won't have any idea what is said. I simply find that sort of thing irritating as I do in novels that have untranslated other languages in it, only the context makes something perfectly clear. So the question becomes, why post something you know for certain the majority of people here will not understand?
treestar
(82,383 posts)they didn't know what the post said, so they'd hide it in case it was a way of saying something uncivil and getting away with it.
Google translate also didn't work for the language involved. It didn't have that language. Japanese in roman characters - Google translate does Japanese from Japanese characters.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)it must be insulting or disruptive.
Many years ago I was in a job where a co-worker and I often spoke with each other in French. We mostly talked silly stuff, and we were NEVER talking about our fellow employees, but it was amusing to us how often they'd get uncomfortable and assume we were talking about them.
Mostly what we were discussing was our fictitious opera we called Le Petit Gros Lapin de Paques de Birmanie, or The Little Fat Easter Bunny from Burma. Total nonsense. We were inventing a plot and songs, and it made our coworkers crazy. Fortunately, this was long enough ago that the language police weren't called down on us.
But I still think that posting a complete post here untranslated is rude. Not worth hiding or calling out on, but rude.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and they had no way of knowing.
I'd have no problem with people speaking a language I don't know in the real world - unless I was the only one other person there and I had not way to participate in the conversation. But on the internet it seems silly. I would not go to a Spanish board and start posting English. What would be the point?
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)But you can enter romanized Japanese and click a button to convert the romanized letters into Japanese characters. But first, you have to let Google Translate know that you are entering Japanese words.
For example, I clicked "Japanese" in the "Enter" box, then entered "Watashi ha nonbiri shiteimasu".
Then I clicked the Japanese character key to convert it to 私 は のんびり しています
The Google translation was "I am laid back", although admittedly a better translation would be "I am taking it easy".
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)If I put "Watashi ha nonbiri shiteimasu" into the left hand GT box, it produces a link below it saying "Did you mean: 私 は のんびり しています", with the Japanese as the link - click on that, it puts the Japanese characters into the box, and produces the "I am laid-back" translation.
But with "Karera wa, kore made wa sapōto o ukeru niataisuru n" from the hidden post, I get the suggestion "Translate from Maori", which gives the meaningless "Pale green time, not made of time sapōto ukeru niataisuru n"
shenmue
(38,506 posts)It is important to speak Kitteh so as to be able to read the cat posts.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)memo to Admins. your juries don't even represent your community.
but keep defending those jury results, no matter what.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Orrex
(63,224 posts)A poll of a self-selected group of respondents matches your expectations, so the results must be correct.
Multiple polls of randomly-selected respondents do not match your expectations, so those results must be wrong.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)but thanks for playing.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)But thanks for trying to play.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)good.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)Unsurprising.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)And I'm not here to surprise you.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)I find that a certain contingent on DU invariably equates disagreement with failure to understand.
Also, observing that your response is unsurprising is not an assertion that you are here to surprise me.
It is an observation that your response is unsurprising regardless of why you're here.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Posting racist garbage about Asians, allowed.
Asians posting an innocuous sentence in an Asian language, not allowed.
If that is truly representative, or more representative of this place, then our community standard is that we are a white, xenophobic website.
Forgive me for not considering the jury system representative enough of this community to believe that.
Orrex
(63,224 posts)I know that you know that, so I have to suspect that you're messing with me.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)in a thread where there was a realistic chance someone would similarly attack a whole religion - which would be the kind of post that many DUers think should be hidden. The problem of it being in Japanese was pointed out three and a half hours before the alert was made, but there wasn't a reply.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Where I was probably out at Safeway shopping for food for my table and food for my cat. ONE can not be glued to DU 24-7 like some people, though I do try. I guess THE NEXT TIME I post anything, I need to wait at least 3 and a half hours before I leave the house. I suppose I could ask DUERS permission to go shopping and not to get upset over anything until I get back.. OR here is another brilliant IDEA, I COULD ask DU TO PLEASE PROVIDE ME WITH ONE OF THOSE lovely phones that get the internet, and than I will never be out of reach. But...you know before I get one, I would suggest that you, Muriel ask DU FIRST...I WOULD like to see the reaction before I ask for my free I-phone with DU app.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)They need the poster, or someone else who knows that language, around.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)a foreign language phrase, or one in English attacking an entire religion would not be an innocuous phrase.
NuttyFluffers
(6,811 posts)but then i also believe juries and admin censors in general are dumb.
let the kitchen heat up to its native temperature. with outlined rules you'll get passive-aggressive posters who will skirt things to censor the community in their favor anyway. and that means any gov't or cult who wishes to control this board, or FUD it into uselessness, has a tool to play the rules against us all.
no rules, no tools to manipulate. vitriol and weird ingratiating merely outs people's true nature. laxity neuters those who need to control the message.
JVS
(61,935 posts).. - .----. ... / .... .- .-. -.. / - --- / -- --- -.. . .-. .- - . / .- / .-- . -... ... .. - . / .-- .... . -. / .--. . --- .--. .-.. . / ..- ... . / .- / .-.. .- -. --. ..- .- --. . / - .... .- - / ..-. . .-- / .--. . --- .--. .-.. . / .- - / - .... . / .-- . -... ... .. - . / ..- -. -.. . .-. ... - .- -. -..
.. .. .-. -.-. / -... .- -.-. -.- / .. -. / - .... . / -.. .- -.-- / --- ..-. / -- --- -.. . .-. .- - --- .-. ... / - .... . .-. . / .-- . .-. . / ... --- -- . / .. -. -.-. .. -.. . -. - ... / --- ..-. / .--. . --- .--. .-.. . / ..- ... .. -. --. / ..-. --- .-. . .. --. -. / .-.. .- -. --. ..- .- --. . ... / - --- / -.-. .. .-. -.-. ..- -- ...- . -. - / .-. ..- .-.. . ... / .- --. .- .. -. ... - / .--. . .-. ... --- -. .- .-.. / .- - - .- -.-. -.- ... / .- -. -.. / .. -. -.-. .. ...- .. .-.. .. - -.-- .-.-.- / -. --- .-- / - .... .- - / .-. .- -. -.. --- -- / .--- ..- .-. .. . ... / .- .-. . / ... . .-.. . -.-. - . -.. --..-- / .--- ..- .-. --- .-. ... / -.-. --- ..- .-.. -.. / --- .--. - / --- ..- - / --- ..-. / .- -. -.-- / -.. .. ... -.-. ..- ... ... .. --- -. / - .... .- - / .. ... / -... . .. -. --. / .... . .-.. -.. / .. -. / .- / .-.. .- -. --. ..- .- --. . / - .... . -.-- / -.. --- / -. --- - / ..- -. -.. . .-. ... - .- -. -.. .-.-.- / . ...- . -. - ..- .- .-.. .-.. -.-- / .- / .--- ..- .-. -.-- / --- ..-. / .--. . --- .--. .-.. . / -.-. --- -- .--. . - . -. - / - --- / .-. . .- -.. / .- -. -.. / .--- ..- -.. --. . / - .... . / .--. --- ... - / .-- --- ..- .-.. -.. / ..-. --- .-. -- --..-- / -... ..- - / - .... . / .--. .-. .- -.-. - .. -.-. .- .-.. .. - -.-- / --- ..-. / - .... .- - / .- .--. .--. .-. --- .- -.-. .... / .-- --- ..- .-.. -.. / ...- .- .-. -.-- / -... -.-- / .... --- .-- / -.-. --- -- -- --- -. / - .... . / .-.. .- -. --. ..- .- --. . / .. -. / --.- ..- . ... - .. --- -. / .. ... / .- -- --- -. --. / -.-. --- -- -- ..- -. .. - -.-- / -- . -- -... . .-. ... .-.-.- / .. .----. -- / --. ..- . ... ... .. -. --. / .- ..-. - . .-. / ... .--. .- -. .. ... .... / .- -. -.. / ..-. .-. . -. -.-. .... / - .... . / .- -... .. .-.. .. - -.-- / - --- / ..-. .. -. -.. / .- / .--- ..- .-. -.-- / .-- --- ..- .-.. -.. / - .- .--. . .-. / --- ..-. ..-. / --.- ..- .. -.-. -.- .-.. -.-- .-.-.-
.. -. / -.-. .- ... . / -.-- --- ..- / -. . . -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / .-- .. - .... / .-- .... .- - / .. / .- -- / .--. --- ... - .. -. --. .-.-.- / - .... . / .-- . -... ... .. - . / - --- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / .. ... http://morsecode.scphillips.com/jtranslator.html
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)"Tierra_y_Libertad?" Is that an insult against liberals?
Admin has said it's perfectly fine for juries to hide foreign language posts. Juries rule even when they drool.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12595961
Therefore, perhaps we should make it official, that only English is acceptable. That would involve setting an actual community standard though.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Which the juries will ignore, and at times, even hide a post that is in keeping with the standard.
And then perhaps the Admin. will defend the jury for doing.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)but only if the profanity is in another language, so I can use my fluent spanish cursing skills
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)Use English if you want, but if you must, but I prefer an exaggerated German accent from Hogan's Heroes.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,869 posts)Reading hurts my brain.
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)so that other readers know what you're talking about.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)rather than sending it to a jury.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)I agree with you in that if there are paragraphs and paragraphs of a language there should be a translation. There was a North Korean video that had a half hour of stuff and the whole thing came down to one paragraph in English. This frustrated me because I wanted to know what they were saying.
But if someone puts up a sentence ..for example: Goman na hito ga Kirada! Most people would either just skip it...or ask for a translation. I have always provided one. (Goman na hito ga kirada =I hate arrogance,)
Sometimes you just want to swear at a Republican ... BAKA! Doji! Manuke!! (Idiot, Clumsy, Stupid) in a way that won't get people too upset. Well now guess what... Now they take it to a jury and let them decide... (Hey We don't know what it means, lets hide it just in case, its like offensive!!=.=)
MADem
(135,425 posts)"These are personal insults that are rude but not vulgar."
Or
"This swear references sexual congress in an unsavory way!"
Or simply "These are naughty words and phrases."
Then add "I don't want to insult anyone with sensitive eyes, if you're beyond curious, PM me and I'll tell you!!"
OR, you could use that "Hidden" command that enables you to HIDE a word or phrase, and it will only be revealed if you highlight it...you can warn people to not highlight if they are easily offended, and inoculate your warning with JURY TAKE NOTE!!
I can't see hiding anyone's post--or even ALERTING on it-- for foreign language use--that's just silly. Heck, that sounds like an alert that needs to be alerted on, because that's someone who is just messin' wit' ya.
The other thing you could do is provide a link to a translating program on the net, if you have one that's any good. Some are definitely better than others, I've found! Usually, the ones with the languages that I suck at, or don't know at all, are the worst! The ones that can translate the languages I already know do a perfect job...EXCEPT for those one or two words that escape me! Isn't it always the way!!
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)I have often posted what I have said with English subtitles. The NEW GAME NOW IS for people to say..SHES Just a liar SHE PROBABLY SAID SOMETHING NASTY...SEND IT TO A JURY... POST is hidden. WHY? Because people on the Jury need to come with a quick decision, and people will never want to go look something up on their own, nor are Juries allowed to confirm with each other...its HURRY UP AND PROSECUTE! l
And then you have the person on DU who might have a Racial Bias against Asians and don't think we belong here, and would want to push us off the Democratic Website by reporting every thing we say, that is not in English.
The Democratic Party is supposed to be a big tent...I think there are some who don't want us here, for their own personal reasons.
MADem
(135,425 posts)one can handle those! To hell with giving them the correct pronunciations! They don't deserve 'em!
People can be mean--it's a shame.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 6, 2014, 04:49 AM - Edit history (1)
DU To think twice about POSTING any comments or things not in English, because there are some who will Abuse the system to chase us off here. HAVE you ever considered why there are not so many known Asians here on DU? Maybe they are not mad enough to come out and challenge the things going on in the Democratic Party. We all love the ideals, is just that some don't think some people of color should be here. Many Chinese American people have told me, they can't trust any politician. SO to get them to come vote you need us, but some of the people here would gladly have, whats little of us left gone.
SPEAK ENGLISH OR GET OUT. They say its rude to speak in our native tongues with each other about public issues.. or go LEARN ENGLISH and then come back. They not only tell that to Asians but to other groups including native Americans. Some things have to change on DU...if you want an all extensive Tent with people under it, supporting your causes, you best allow us to have some leeway.
I agree with some we don't need pages and pages of Comments in another language without some translation but simple comments IN another language should be banned? OR NEVER USED? YOU take away WHO some of us are.
The unfair thing now is European phrases are allowed, but Asian ones are not. How fair is that?
MADem
(135,425 posts)And Arabic? Fuggedaboutit!
Maybe you should start a "word a day" campaign, and teach your language, one word or conversational phrase at a time!
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)course on Japanese. To tell you the truth I don't even know how many members of the Asian group there are. Kimi maybe right in saying with the attitudes on here, some people could care less about us being here and contributing to the big tent. MANY OF my parents family's friends didn't even want to vote, because we as Asian Americans were not that well represented. Well, we are now at least in San Francisco. Its a start... and more and more Asian Americans are going to congress and the Senate.
But getting back to the Asian group, I am happy it was created and made...I JUST wish there were more of us there, but its perfectly understandable why THERE ARE NOT MANY there... because many of us feel like outcasts of the Democratic system.
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)But I don't much care, I suppose. I'll assume it's not for me to read. No biggie.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)So either learn Algonquian, or go back to where you came from.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)I like seeing different languages
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Skittles chan wa totemo kawaii ne! (Skittles is totally Cute!) YES INDEED
Skittles
(153,193 posts)check out me and my monkey!
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)totally amazing if you still had that some where.
rock
(13,218 posts)"Ninny!" You figure out what language it is and what it means.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)(Monty python reference)
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Ya got yer New Yawk version
ya got yer Southern, which is not to be confused with West Texan, which is westren
Ya got yer republican, in which the words SOUND like English, but lacs logical coherence and often any 'semblence to reality
then ya got yer Northern tier English...
and etc.
Be specific, man! Be specific!!
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,420 posts)people here at D.U. speak or post in a language other than English.
If you don't understand something just ask, we can all grow from this kind of diversity, better understanding how other cultures work.
Thanks for the thread, Tierra_y_Libertad.
dawg
(10,624 posts)We have members from all different backgrounds, and if they want to post stuff in a different language, that's fine by me.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)ChazII
(6,206 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)That particular post was not translatable by Google. Everyone had to wait for another DUer to come along and give a translation, and assume it was a correct one. It makes it too difficult for jurors, hosts and admin if there are posts they cannot understand. Other languages have often been used to insult other DUers.
On edit: the 'Groupe Francophone' does still exist: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1164
Not used much, and on DU2, there were volunteers who agreed to police it (and yes, that is what a forum needs, at times); I presume that still applies. If there can be designated language speakers who will be available to check posts if there's doubt, then other languages can work.
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)I translated it and GOT HELL FOR IT. Read though those postings... I TRIED TO HELP...AND GOT CRAP FOR IT. How long have I been here? Now suddenly I am the Enemy... hokey smokes, Bullwinkle!!!
quinnox
(20,600 posts)For purely selfish reasons. I only know English, and have never been good at understanding other languages.
I'm one of those who found it very difficult to learn other languages in school.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Everyone , who is a democrat a way to express themselves. I GAVE an example above about the Chinese in San Francisco Chinatown who only became democrats because their kids encouraged them to sign up and vote. And information in Mandarin was passed out to them about the candidates. The went fully Democratic and voted for Barrack Obama. These people are now on our side...
SO WHEN THE NEXT PERSON IS running for President of the United States, you want to close the door on their face, so they can't learn more.. or maybe someone here in the ASIAN GROUP would write about, lets say Hillary Clinton, in MANDARIN .. MAYBE we might get their votes. But if its ENGLISH ONLY, you are gonna lose a lot of potential voters... WE would be no better than the Republicans.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)I am answering the poll, which said should English be the main language here. I took that as meaning the main and popular big forums, that get a lot of traffic. I wouldn't have objection to foreign language exclusive forums, where those who speak another language can talk amongst themselves, but not a popular main forum like General Discussion.
It's considered rude to speak a language in front of those who don't understand it, in certain circumstances. I am not making this up. For instance, if there were 4 people all in a group discussion together, and talking about something, let's say they all speak English, and then if all of a sudden one person in the group said something to another person in the group in a foreign language, but the other two people don't understand that language, that would be considered rude, to most people.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Why is it when two people walk into a room speaking some language that other people don't understand, they start to get edgy. Saying things like...THEY MUST BE TALKING ABOUT ME, OR THEY MUST BE TALKING ABOUT US.... or WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY SAYING..I WISH THEY WOULD LEAVE.....I HATE THAT CHING CHONG CHING CHONG CRAP.... AND yes, this was said to me in a chat room.
Why are Americans so darn Xenophobic and so self centered they think the conversation is all about them? WHY ELSE WOULD be talking in ___________ <-- Language insert here,... and not in English, they must be hiding something. YES we should have them go into their own little room and talk among themselves...but damn, they must be plotting something... THIS TOO I have heard before, when someone didn't think I spoke English.
Yikes...I didn't know DU was this bad... when it came to other people joining DU.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)think of it this way, if 4 people are in a group, and all talking together, having conversation, enjoying themselves, and then all of a sudden one person whispers in the ear of another person, and the other person does the same thing back, that would be rude. It is excluding the other two people in the group, because they can't hear or understand what the other two are saying. To make the example even more clear, let's say those two people keep whispering to each other, and ignore the other two people in the group.
I made my example devoid of language, to show it is not purely a language issue. It is about human communication norms. Yes, many people will think other people are talking about them, whether they are whispering, or speaking in a foreign tongue. Who knows why, but it is a common thing. Call it a quirk of human psychology.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)The President of the United States is addressing some people in a room and one of his Secret Service comes in and whispers something in his ear. "EXCUSE ME MR. PRESIDENT...WHAT DID THAT GUY SAY? WE DIDN'T HEAR IT."
I HAVE BEEN to parties where people have whispered things inr French to another person. Do I think its rude? Do I call it on them? No..I walk away and allow them to talk.
People here get all freaked out if someone i speaking in another language like the Tea Bagger who Yelled at two Native Americans for speaking Navaho, to take it some where else.. WE SPEAK AMERICAN HERE, GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY...
This is what you want for DU? Really?
quinnox
(20,600 posts)preferences are, it is only important what the administrators think, because they make the rules...
What I am saying is my vote will not cause anything to happen, or not happen. A little too much drama, I think, in your post.
2. You want my bottom line? I wouldn't care if some duers started speaking in a foreign language here in their posts, and started making this a habit, because I just would put all of them who did so on ignore. That way, I would still be able to read the site, and understand it. And they could post in foreign languages to their hearts content, I just wouldn't see it.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)sensible answer and I will take it. I think if there is drama here, its frankly from some who infiltrate DU to push us farther to the right. If any group of people are xenophobic, its certainly Republicans.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)enough of the song and dance.
you stated clearly a while back what you think and why you think it, you might as well own it, unless you're ashamed of saying it --which clearly you are not.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=234818
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)call it a quirk of human psychology, but you're practically alone on this.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Something about , it takes one to know one. Welcome to my world, Winkydink.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)wise. That has nothing to do with voting for President.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)about THE MANY CHINESE ELDERS IN San Francisco Chinatown who for a LONG, LONG DAMN TIME chose not to vote IN AN American Election, because, DESPITE the fact, their kids and grand kids were Democrats, they HAD NO Representation in local, State and Federal Government. These people DIDN'T JUST COME OVER ON THE boat.
No, They were APART of the Generations of Chinese Who grew up in San Francisco, for generations because their ancestors were snagged out of China and brought to build the RAILROADS IN THE USA...and when that was done, told to FLAKE OFF...and were chased out of many places LIKE SANTA BARBARA.
These are the SAME CHINESE who in 1906 after the GREAT EARTHQUAKE NOT only helped Rebuild their own community but helped the CITY BUILD BACK UP, and were then told to FLAKE OFF.
OKAY??? THEIR KIDS got them to register to vote and got them Excited about BARRACK OBAMA AND GUESS WHAT??? THEY voted for him. NO ONE ELSE could have swayed them... SO these are the people who we need for the next President... who ever that maybe.. for the Democratic Party.
History Lesson served....
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)If you knew anything about me, you would know I was Japanese. Did we not start out our morning with Bangers and ..what is it you guys eat over there? ...I should know this... um. KIppers!!
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)or at least the motivation behind them.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you didn't seem to afraid to say it in the past.
29. It would be better if all people knew one language
And English seems to be the one that is most popular in that many people worldwide learn it and speak it, so may as well pick it as the world language.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=234818
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)I don't think it should. Why should it be?
I can only think of one reason and that is the people that can't read that language could feel left out (Personally, I don't), but you can always google translate and get a pretty clear picture if they are cussing you out or something. lol!
LeftishBrit
(41,210 posts)speakers; and except in rare cases, there seems little point in posting in any language that most people on the board can't read.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)that when they see a post in a language they don't understand, just scrolls past to the next post?
The alert on that post wasn't that it was saying an insult or vote Ron Paul - it was that it was another language posted on an English only website... and the jury agreed.
I assumed it would be close to 0-7 to leave but marked my spot to post results just in case (habit).
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)then Skinner chimed in to find the whole thing eminently reasonable.
i have to say his reaction, the post in the African American group and the Admin non response to the "Tackling Asian Privilege" OP (and a jury and host failure to hide it) all within the space of a couple weeks indicate to me, an unintentional, but clear message that when this website's members act xenophobically or insensitively towards minorities, that the Admins, will back up those who are being insensitive or xenophobic and tell the minorities to stop complaining lest they be hidden.
will that make this place whiter? already has.
is that a hat trick in a party that is more and more diverse each year? yup, but not in a good way.
is there anything about having white skin that prevents one from understanding this? no, not a thing except failure to try.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)I don't think I've ever seen Skinner agree that a jury hide was bad.
Maybe I have but the majority seem to always put the onus on the community.
I think people are barking up the wrong tree when they complain in ATA. The jury is the jury and you take your chances yadda yadda yadda.
If this is what the community wants then this is what we get.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)though one of my examples was where Skinner went to a thread in the African American group to chide a poster who called the content of a post racist.
and in a similar timeframe, stayed out of an OP written by a verifiable racist, written about "Asian Privilege".
i'm sure there was no intention of sending a message, but one was received nonetheless.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)People constantly look to the Admins/Skinner for leadership - most of the time in the manner that my mom used to say, "just wait until your father gets home!"
And that is not the role they play here. They've made that clear through both words and actions. It's been that way for a while.
Rightly or wrongly I think they are 99% hands off now. The community will mold itself. Someone recently asked in ATA about how many timeouts does someone have to get until they finally tombstone them. Skinner said there is no number. It's up to us to keep putting them on timeout.
I think for a while the fear of dad coming home did mold the community to what people thought Skinner wanted. That went out the window a long time ago. I remember countless juries that would reference Skinner and what he would want and the majority would hide. Now if you pull that you might lose your alert privileges for 24 hours.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)but the irony of my complaints is where the exception to "hands-off" was made.
the AA group thing, i mean are you basically hands-off except to go into that group and tell them they were wrong? i'm trying to think why the exception was made there?
why go into the AA group and tell them not to call the content of a post "racist" because that means you're calling the poster "racist" and it doesn't matter if the content is or not, but that's how it works around here...
yes, i get the hands-off, while i don't love it, i'd like it a lot more if it was adhered to in one pretty indefensible case.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)ATA comes to you.
His response was typical for if that was posted in ATA.
But yes, he inserted himself into the AA group for that response and it has a different meaning since he did that.
But then again, if you don't look to Skinner for leadership then there shouldn't be any shock by it. If Naveed* posted that he just would have been blocked from the group.
*I think that's Skinner's name at Discussionist but don't quote me on it.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)That's the default anyway. Until the Internet, I didn't know lose was spelled with two oh's.
Anyway, you do need a common language or communication becomes impossible. I've posted in Spanish in the Latin America group, but I wouldn't do a thing like that in General Discussion.
Neoma
(10,039 posts)Idea estúpida.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Doumo Arigatou gozaimasu. Thank you.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)what language someone wants to post in.
However, if I don't understand it, I won't read it.
I have enough trouble trying to translate some of the English around here.
If I'm on a jury for an alerted foreign language post, the alerter had better have a good explanation other than that it's not written in English.
If the alerter says the post is offensive or insulting and provides a translation, then yes, I'll use a translator program to confirm or not.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)You might not get many replies. I really don't care.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)NATIVE Americans to post in their group, in their respective languages, and Asians should post in their group in their respective languages, and the Hispanic, Latino should speak Spanish in there Group .... I guess the Italians, Germans and French are SOL.. THEY don't have a group. OH WHAT ABOUT THE IRISH GAELIC, AND THE SCOTTISH GAELIC.... well some say those languages are just dead, besides they were told to SPEAK ENGLISH at some point in history, so NO GROUP FOR THEM!! Hawaiians don't have a group, but they have a STATE....SO any language used by Hawaiians could be used there...THAT IS unless THE ENGLISH speaking people in Hawaii have a fit!! oh AS for Alaska ... there are many groups of Natives up there, providing the people who hang out in the Alaska state group will let them ...
BUT HELLYA!!! THIS IS AMERICA BUDDY!!! SPEAK ENGLISH!!!
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)ENGLISH IS SO YUMMY....ITS like eating ..um... butterscotch over graham crackers in the morning because the honey has run out!! Was that also a non sequitur nonsense reply? I know you wanta pick a fight with me but I must tell you I know Kungfu, Karate, JuJitsu and MANY, MANY, MANY other Asian words.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Yo Quiero Taco Bell
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)oh wait.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)In my head. I have failed to immerse myself deeply enough into the French language. So I do not think French. I think French words into English.
But if I had to vote, it would be a resounding "Fuck no!", alas that was not an option in the poll.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)people won't understand, and that's why it was hidden.
So you approve of entire threads in other languages?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)What do you think would happen if entire threads were in another language? Armageddon (Hebrew)? A tsunami (Japanese)? Catastrophe (French)? Cataclysm (Greek)?
treestar
(82,383 posts)most people are going to post in English here. That English takes words from other languages doesn't mean every English speaker is fluent in all those languages.
By all means, post an OP in another language and see what happens. That one post didn't bring the entire board into the issue. See how people take to being called xenophobes (which if OTT by the way) for wondering what is going on.
Yeah maybe we can have lots of threads in different languages. We can scan the board for things we understand.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Just do it.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Go post an OP in another language.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)I don't like having posts hidden.
Of course, the xenophobia has temporarily been made aware of itself. And it will step to the side so that the attack is indirect, sliding off rather than hitting its target. And as soon as we settle back into our usual routine, it will be back under the cover of ignorance. I'm very sure of that.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)opposed to a completely foreign language.
Everyone knows that English is both Germanic and Romance.
Well, except for those who insist there's a large Mandarin Branch heretofore ignored.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)in another language.
you then berated another Japanese poster not for posting in Japanese, but because you couldn't be bothered to see if two Japanese American posters were not the same person.
and are you saying that every post in the Asian American or Native American or Latino Groups must be in English? are you saying that? do you think Skinner is saying that?
and if you aren't saying that are you saying they better keep their non English posts out of the main groups?
this party is NOT English only. don't you get that?
treestar
(82,383 posts)AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)That makes us Asian Americans feel so welcome here. Do you wanta know why DU hasn't drawn in the Asian American crowds..?? Two possibilities. One, the American ASIANS ARE here and they don't bother to pop up their heads because they feel like what ever they say will be put down by someone on here ..or TWO.. They quit and left DU because we get the same treatment as the what the Republicans dish out. Not speaking for all Asian Americans here, but we are all pretty much in agreement about this.
It shouldn't be this way...But the way some of these people are TALKING..they seem to want to push out those Asian Americans who are remaining... We are starting to feel unwelcome in this BIG TENT, despite the fact the poll shows other wise, there are a few people on here who seem to have their own particular problem with us.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)At least, I suppose, beyond words many can understand here.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)And ASk THAT ALL FOREIGN language usage should stop RIGHT now on DU. MAKE IT A Policy that no one should utter a word unless its in verifiable English.. That ALL PEOPLE who utter any words that are not in English should be subjected to a jury with vote to hide.
Do this...and most of your problems will go away here on DU. IT will look exactly like the Republican party, because all people of color will have fled.
roody
(10,849 posts)phylny
(8,386 posts)porque quiero practicar mi español todos los días.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Nein.
Non.
không.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)use English
This includes me in the ignorant and lazy as well because I'm not going to run a bunch of stuff through translators.
One day, I'm sure there will be a babel fish program running everywhere and it won't make much difference but right now it does make it nonfunctional. Nothing to hide at all but very impractical.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)especially as they can eaisly be moved into forums..Hell, we could have spanish forums, tagalog forums, Hebrew, Arabic, etc.
However, there is one thing I would say, it might be nice (note I do not say needed) if someone does post a foriegn language to the GENERAL discussion, if they drop some hints to the english speakers about what it is. Granted, people can google translate, but those auto translators can hack languages to bits.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Suggesting they should have their own forums!!!!!
It is and I have learned it is xenophobic to think DU should be an English board!!!!!!!!!!!
Initech
(100,102 posts)Ohio Joe
(21,761 posts)It is embarrassing that post got hidden and embarrassing we have fools voting 'Yes' in this poll.
Edit - Looking at the names of those that voted 'Yes'... Not a single surprise. Disgusting.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Take it else where...Its amazing. They want us under their big tent but we all HAVE TO BOW TO THE Websters dictionary as we enter the tent. I hope the Democratic party is better than this.. and they need us "others" in their tent. If they don't the party will start to look like that other party across the hall..
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)It should be left up to the administrators.
I voted for no answer.
eridani
(51,907 posts)What amazes me is that most of these posts generate at lease one answer in the same language.
merrily
(45,251 posts)referring to and I was born here. So, I have no objection to posting in other languages. I am willing to be as befuddled by an Asian post as I am by a post in my native language.
There is the practical problem of moderation, though.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)wants to type out pages and pages of Korean sentences.. unless its accompanied by a translation, but the fact that ONE PERSON GETS upset of a SIMPLE foreign language phrase, and is too shy, timid or lazy to ask what it means, than takes it to a Jury to hide 6-0 cause its not in English. ITS maddening... People here want a big inclusive tent for the Democratic party, so long as no one speaks a word that isn't English.
OH SHE TYPED IT CAUSE SHE IS OBVIOUSLY hiding something from the rest of us..SHE IS SPEAKING IN CODE... she IS RUDE by posting anything other then GOOD OLD AMERICAN!! SHE MUST BE TALKING about the OP... she must be talking ABOUT US.. she must be talking about White people... what did she say?? Damn it..SPEAK ENGLISH!!11.
hello? ASK ME? DO you think I will say...go learn Japanese! Go figure it out yourself... GO use Google translate you lazy bastard!
And they will ask..This is America..why do I have to bother myself with that gibberish?? Someone typed some Foreign Gibberish on Net and I have to report them..cause maybe it was something insulting and Evil said about me?
oh..and SORRY STAR TREK FANS...no Klingon allowed !!
merrily
(45,251 posts)even though they are written in my first language.
If I think I might care what every word in a post means, I can always ask a poster to explain, whether the post is in American English or a language I don't even recognize. I post with the intent of having people understand every word and I am still misunderstood. So it goes on a message board.
This dispute isn't high on my personal list of political priorities, but I can understand why others see it differently.
Chathamization
(1,638 posts)I think General Discussion will remain mostly English because most people want to discuss things in English, but if we did become a polyglot group, I'd say the best thing to do would be to add English/Korean/German only forums for those who want it. That seems to make more sense than saying "most people don't want to post in English, so we need to force them to post in English."
Of course, this is only tangential to the insanity of the hide in question. Probably 4,999 out of 5,000 posts are in English already. It's extreme paranoid xenophobia to see a single post in another language and think, "They could be saying something offensive!" In fact, it's now making me wonder if people on the street are thinking the same thing when I talk in another language.
Hey guys, I'm going to post a string of random numbers: 3480280970234028493824981984984983208409283.
It could be code for profanity. Better hide this post.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)Thank you.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Any languages people want to use, but add a dictionary/translation service for those of us who want to learn some more non-English languages.
Oh, and always allow cussing in all languages. I want to learn how to say Fuck in every language possible. Fuck yeah.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)You can google how to say "Fuck You" in all languages...and here it is.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025053361#post281
Enjoy. Just don't use it on DU, you will probably get your post hidden.
Behind the Aegis
(53,987 posts)This whole thing is nothing but a tempest in a teaspoon...not even a teapot! If it is something that can easily be put to a translator, not an issue. Transliteration is something different all together.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Just a helpful travel tip for anyone travelling to Papua New Guinea...
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)it was a dumb hide.Dumb hides happen.
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'd be compelled to recognize myself as as close-minded, xenophobic, and without imagination if I desired one-language-only dictates, much as I currently consider as such those who do so already.
klook
(12,166 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)meta nicer thread!!!
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Javaman
(62,534 posts)vita d'amore!
kentauros
(29,414 posts)then we must be sure that we get the grammar correct, and conjugate the verbs properly.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)wercal
(1,370 posts)Its way too much work reviewing posts for inappropriate content, etc., using some translation program.
I would be opposed to having a section of the board dedicated to Spanish, for example - if there were a mod who knew Spanish, who wanted to volunteer to moderate it.
MH1
(17,600 posts)Just as in real life they can have problems because of language, if they haven't mastered the native tongue, or regional dialect and idiom, of wherever they happen to be.
Blue_Adept
(6,402 posts)A lot is "lost in translation" from conversations on a screen to how they'd sound in real life. Hence a lot of bad alerts.
Travelman
(708 posts)because Harvey Korman.
riseabove
(70 posts)Maybe people on here should expand their horizons and learn another language? God forbid they did.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)of other languages. Not the point for posting here, I don't think.