I've changed my mind: now I'm Ready for Hillary!

[MannyGoldstein]

Last edited Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Dear friend:

Hillary Clinton's searched her soul and concluded that her 2002 vote to invade Iraq was a mistake. I know - we all know - how difficult it is to admit to any mistake, and few of us will ever feel such remorse in our soul as Hillary must feel from that awful vote that caused such horror.

I believe that Hillary's change of heart humanizes her, shows us that she's big enough to think things through based on better information, rather than clinging blindly to previous positions out of stubbornness or insecurity. I respect that, as much as I respect Hillary's long history of fighting for the 99% and winning tough battles.

So, today, I find myself in the surprising position of throwing my support behind Hillary. Should she run for the 2016 presidency in 2028, I believe that she'll do a superb job of making the right decisions based on data from 12 years before, just as she's done on Iraq.

Until 2028? Since most Congressional Democrats voted the right way in 2002, perhaps we should try to make someone else the Democratic nominee in 2016.

Manny is... Ready for Hillary! (As soon as we have a time machine.)

[Jackpine Radical]

1. BUT--

Is Hillary ready for Manny?

[OnyxCollie]

2. You've changed your mind, and now you're ready for Hillary.

Never underestimate the power of frontal lobotomies.

[LoisB]

3. I haven't changed my mind. I am not ready for Hillary.

[randys1]

51. I would love to hear your alternative, and I am being serious

First who would you pick?

Second, if she is the candidate, and she is running against any Republican, what do you do?

[quinnox]

4. I realize you are being sarcastic, but welcome to the party, pal

*Insert obligatory Bruce Willis pic here.*

[woo me with science]

5. I tried to rec it; really I did.

I laughed at the concept of supporting Hillary waaaay in 2028, after she's finally renounced the warmongering and the corporatism and the lies and the bribes. I hit rec, and it took, but then I read the headline again as a newbie might, and something visceral was coming out of my gut. The truth is that I can't even support her hypothetically, in 2028, in a mock thread exposing her for what she is.


Brilliant as usual, Manny. I really did try!

[RobertEarl]

6. She is brilliant!!

She looked at why she lost the election in 2008 and realized that had she voted NO on Iraq, she would have been elected president. As it was the peace candidate won.

Pure brilliance!! Reminds me a bit of those bombs bursting over Baghdad. Who wasn't shocked and awed? Hilliary wasn't, but she is now.

[NCTraveler]

7. Seriously.

From your writings here I think I would be impressed if you simply voted for or supported any democrat. Yeah, I'm sure you have voted for democrats since back in the Carter days. lol. You have gone from sarcasm and irony to confused.

[sabrina 1]

20. On the contrary, life long Democrats like Manny, want to see their party continue to be the party of

the people. We HAVE a party of the Corporations already and it is alarming now to see those Corporations move into our party, having hi-jacked nearly half of it at this point.

Bailing out Wall St?? I thought that would be the Party of the Corporations. No prosecutions of corrupt Wall St. Bankers, 'too big to fail'? Wasn't that lingo of the OTHER party?

We don't have another party, so good Democrats like Manny are fighting to KEEP THIS ONE for the people.

Odd you would see it any other way frankly.

[NCTraveler]

21. Nothing odd about it.

You are a wonderful spokesperson for Manny.

[sabrina 1]

25. On the contrary again, it is VERY ODD. Also odd is the resort to personal attack. Here's why, if

someone can make a case for their position on an ISSUE, they NEVER resort to that childish tactic, mainly because it has zero effect on the outcome. Well, it does in a way, it shows that that the person cannot defend their position and hands a victory to the other person.

I know that feels, I was a blind supporter of Clinton during the period when Right Wingers were obsessed with him. I never really looked at what he was doing politically, I didn't care, I just felt compelled to support him regardless. A few people did try to point out to me that while we were all out there fighting for him, he was signing legislation that would seriously harm this country, Glass Steagal eg, but I didn't care and tried to 'explain it'. I know I was not convincing, but I WAS loyal.

Later when I saw Clinton and Bush hanging out together, and heard Babs describe Clinton as 'like my own son', it was like cold water being thrown in my face. I thought I was defending him FROM Bush et al.

That was a lesson I won't forget. Politicians deserve support when they earn it.

Now I am proponent of 'watch what they DO, not what they say'.

[NCTraveler]

30. Personal attack. Where? nt.

[quinnox]

24. Manny is consistently one of the most progressive posters on here

It is other duers who seem to constantly bash progressives and ideas from the left that I wonder about.

[NCTraveler]

27. Yeah. So I'm told.

He has a very consistent record of attacking from the left. I agree. Nothing about that means progressive. He does seem to need others backing in order to back his progressive credentials. Nothing in this op says progressive. Nothing in this op says democrat. Both of those statements are factual. Excellent Manny spokesperson you are. Job well done.

[FSogol]

50. +1 Well said. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

26. Not true

He's stated very clearly he voted for Reagan. Ask him - he's very honest about that.

[NCTraveler]

28. Reagan supporter. Not surprised. nt.

[MannyGoldstein]

33. Full disclosure...

Voted for Reagan in 1980 (youthful mistake) Democrats in every presidential election since (and every other election that I recall).

[JustAnotherGen]

34. Thanks

[Cali_Democrat]

36. So you're a Reagan Democrat

I must confess, I wasn't eligible to vote until 2000 when Bush stole the presidency from my guy. So the first time I voted, my guy gets the most votes and still doesn't win. What kind of shit is that?

I would have never made the "youthful mistake" of voting GOP. Perhaps it's because of how I was raised. There isn't a single GOPer in my immediate or extended family. At least none that I know of. You should see us at our family gatherings....we do nothing but roast meat and GOPers.

Didn't you say you would have overturned the election of Obama?

Seems to me that you're still making "youthful mistakes".

[MannyGoldstein]

37. Was. nt

[ProSense]

39. "Didn't you say you would have overturned the election of Obama? "

Yes, isn't that interesting?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024667643#post41
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023993583#post107

[GeorgeGist]

47. Reagan made stupid respectable.

[woo me with science]

45. Argle blargle.

Predictable attempt to make this about Manny, rather than Hillary's corporate, warmongering record.

If the Third Way has taught us anything, it is to watch the policies, not the jacket color or self-professed party affiliation.

[Scuba]

48. Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

[msongs]

8. so who will run as the democrat lol nt

[Nye Bevan]

9. And Liz Warren decided in 1995 to stop being a Republican.

Warren voted as a Republican for many years saying, "I was a Republican because I thought that those were the people who best supported markets".[16] She states that in 1995 she began to vote Democratic because she no longer believed that to be true, but she says that she has voted for both parties because she believed that neither party should dominate.[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren

Part of deciding who to vote for is to what extent a candidate's history should be held against them. Personally I don't have an issue that Liz Warren used to be a Reaganomics-supporting Republican, and I also understand the flood of misinformation that caused good people such as John Kerry to vote in favor of the IWR.

[RobertEarl]

13. Kerry

Y'know Kerry probably would have been elected president if he had voted NO on Iraq. Sane People just are not interested in voting for someone who votes to invade innocent countries. So they stayed home.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Are Warren's and Hillary's mistakes of the same magnitude? nt

[Nye Bevan]

29. That would depend upon how much damage one thinks Reagan and HW Bush did (nt)

[sabrina 1]

22. If Warren starts talking like a Republican, what makes you think anyone who now supports her would

continue to do so? Do you think that 'loyalty' to a candidate trumps what is good for the country?

Let her start touting invasions of foreign ala Bush/Cheney and watch what happens to the support she now has. I for one, would be as outraged as I was on the night I watched Hillary stumble through her reasons for for giving such enormous power to one of the worst administrations, the lies were so obvious to most thinking people, in living memory. I had respected and admired her, until then.

Same thing with Warren and maybe she needs to know that. What we do know is that people CHANGE, but the issues do not.

And anyone who blindly continues to support someone who has betrayed the trust of those who support them, should never expect that support to continue.

[Ed Suspicious]

53. No chance in hell. You have my support right up till the time you decided decide my

interests are best served by serving the interests of corporations and the MIC over me.

[sabrina 1]

56. Exactly. But for some reason there are people here who think that 'loyalty' will trump everything.

I see posts all the time aimed at those who currently support Warren, attempting to demonstrate, well something, by claiming she 'supported this, or that, or she used to be a Republican etc.' I guess they expect 'loyal' supporters to try to defend her.

It's really simple, I USED to support Hillary eg. But when she voted for the Iraq War, that was it, and prevaricated on a question about torture.

It wasn't difficult, if someone veers off in the wrong direction, why would anyone intelligent follow them?

[Ed Suspicious]

57. My politician is simply the tool by which I bring my voice to bear on policy. If my voice is no

longer part of the conversation, that politician just isn't much good to me. That's not to say I'd discard them like used kleenex if they have a track-record of good work for me, but if they fail to do my work, I try to hire someone who will.

[tularetom]

54. And Hillary was a "Goldwater Girl"

Since we're all pointing out crap that happened years ago.

[lostincalifornia]

10. Regardless Manny, In her book she is talking the right talk on more than just the IWR. Global

Warming, Women's rights, gay rights etc.

So her book represents many positive views. However, she also was critical of Obama for not supporting Mubarik(sic), which is troubling because it implies getting involved in another countries internal affairs

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. I'll be overjoyed to vote for her...in 2032.

Of course, I think I'll be overjoyed to do much of anything when 88. But, I'll probably change my mind if it happens.

[Katashi_itto]

12. Wall Street is also ready for Hillary!

[MannyGoldstein]

15. No time machine needed!

[Katashi_itto]

18. Exactly!

[MineralMan]

16. Say, Manny, thanks for letting us know.

We can always count on you to tell us what you are thinking on a daily basis.

Grateful-way MineralManny.

[betterdemsonly]

17. I suspect this means

Liz has definitely bowed out.

Hillary has also stated she supports more agitation against Assad and Putin, and she is sorry Obama was so hardline against settlements, so she is not less militaristic today, than she used to be.


I don't trust her and still am holding out for someone else to run.

[Katashi_itto]

19. If she is the only choice to vote for, I plan on having Waffles that day.

A ton of my friends and acquaintances feel the same way. We may have a waffle-in.

Warren or Sanders.

[betterdemsonly]

23. That is dangerous territory here so watch out

but I do like my waffles with strawberry jam.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

32. We've already got our first gallon of strawberries prepped

from out back in the garden, but we freeze them, and wait until early December to make the jam from them. I also think we use too much pectin to make jam that's 'syrupy'. Maybe I should try a 'half the pectin' batch to save back to make some for waffles...

[betterdemsonly]

35. Yum!

n/t

[Whisp]

31. unrec.

[ProSense]

38. Interesting, isn't it?

Reagan Democrat: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025070036#post33

Anti-Obama:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024667643#post41
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023993583#post107

Ready for Hillary!

[Whisp]

40. Ever since that gefelka fish mockery put up

making fun of black people, I don't take anything this person has to spew seriously. It was never fun before that either.

[MannyGoldstein]

43. And now I'm mocking the Jews!

Glorifying the Third Reich probably, in your mind.

Hell, I can be anti-everything if we give you a little time.

[Cali_Democrat]

46. ...

- Reagan Dem
- Anti-Obama
- Ready For Hillary

[bigtree]

52. 'lifelong Democrat'

[Skidmore]

41. Manny is....

not as clever as he thinks he is.

[Dragonfli]

42. To be conscious is not to be in time,

Poor Hillary, the children in the garden no longer laugh.
The garden was burned with them in it while our bombs dropped,
because in time you enabled its burning, and all time is unreedemable, as is your past decision in the eyes of this voter.

Burnt Norton ~T. S. Eliot

I

Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future
And time future contained in time past.
If all time is eternally present
All time is unredeemable.
What might have been is an abstraction
Remaining a perpetual possibility
Only in a world of speculation.
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.
Footfalls echo in the memory
Down the passage which we did not take
Towards the door we never opened
Into the rose-garden. My words echo
Thus, in your mind.
But to what purpose
Disturbing the dust on a bowl of rose-leaves
I do not know.
Other echoes
Inhabit the garden. Shall we follow?
Quick, said the bird, find them, find them,
Round the corner. Through the first gate,
Into our first world, shall we follow
The deception of the thrush? Into our first world.
There they were, dignified, invisible,
Moving without pressure, over the dead leaves,
In the autumn heat, through the vibrant air,
And the bird called, in response to
The unheard music hidden in the shrubbery,
And the unseen eyebeam crossed, for the roses
Had the look of flowers that are looked at.
There they were as our guests, accepted and accepting.
So we moved, and they, in a formal pattern,
Along the empty alley, into the box circle,
To look down into the drained pool.
Dry the pool, dry concrete, brown edged,
And the pool was filled with water out of sunlight,
And the lotos rose, quietly, quietly,
The surface glittered out of heart of light,
And they were behind us, reflected in the pool.
Then a cloud passed, and the pool was empty.
Go, said the bird, for the leaves were full of children,
Hidden excitedly, containing laughter.
Go, go, go, said the bird: human kind
Cannot bear very much reality.
Time past and time future
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.

II

Garlic and sapphires in the mud
Clot the bedded axle-tree.
The trilling wire in the blood
Sings below inveterate scars
Appeasing long forgotten wars.
The dance along the artery
The circulation of the lymph
Are figured in the drift of stars
Ascend to summer in the tree
We move above the moving tree
In light upon the figured leaf
And hear upon the sodden floor
Below, the boarhound and the boar
Pursue their pattern as before
But reconciled among the stars.

At the still point of the turning world. Neither flesh nor fleshless;
Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,
But neither arrest nor movement. And do not call it fixity,
Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards,
Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point,
There would be no dance, and there is only the dance.
I can only say, there we have been: but I cannot say where.
And I cannot say, how long, for that is to place it in time.
The inner freedom from the practical desire,
The release from action and suffering, release from the inner
And the outer compulsion, yet surrounded
By a grace of sense, a white light still and moving,
Erhebung without motion, concentration
Without elimination, both a new world
And the old made explicit, understood
In the completion of its partial ecstasy,
The resolution of its partial horror.
Yet the enchainment of past and future
Woven in the weakness of the changing body,
Protects mankind from heaven and damnation
Which flesh cannot endure.
Time past and time future
Allow but a little consciousness.
To be conscious is not to be in time
But only in time can the moment in the rose-garden,
The moment in the arbour where the rain beat,
The moment in the draughty church at smokefall
Be remembered; involved with past and future.
Only through time time is conquered.

[SidDithers]

44. And you're already a donor to her campaign!...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024479945#post36

Sid

[Scuba]

49. Hey, she's smarter than Rick Perry and to the left of Icky Ricky on social issues.

What's not to like?

[Ed Suspicious]

55. High bar to hurdle. Pretty impressive.