Why is it the *GREEN* Party Understands Ed Issues and the DEM Party Does Not?

[Smarmie Doofus]

>>>Green Party Defends Teacher Tenure Against Legal Challenge

The Green Party candidates for Governor and Lt. Governor today spoke out strongly against a lawsuit to be filed by a former CNN anchor seeking to overturn tenure in New York State.

“The attack on teacher tenure is about scapegoating teachers for the conditions of our schools,” remarked Brian Jones, a former NYC school teacher running for Lieutenant Governor. “Why aren’t they filing suit against Cuomo for shortchanging local schools for funding by $9 billion? Or over the fact that New YorkState has the most segregated schools in the country, worse than it was 50 years ago?”

Howie Hawkins, the Green Party candidate for Governor, points out that teacher tenure was enacted nationwide more than a century ago to protect academic freedom and to stop the firing of teachers based on political and partisan changes in local school boards and principals.

“Tenure establishes and preserves a highly qualified teacher workforce in our schools. Teacher turnover is a huge problem — especially in high-needs schools. Removing tenure does nothing to stop the revolving door. Tenure and seniority help to create a stable (i.e., not revolving) community of adults in schools, which is what children and families want,” noted Howie Hawkins.

“Tenure prevents high teacher turnover and protects New Yorkers against the politics of personal bias, favoritism, and cronyism in our schools. >>>>>

the rest: http://dianeravitch.net/2014/07/03/green-party-supports-teacher-tenure-in-new-york/


Well.... aside from the obvious: there's $$$$$$ to be made by kissing the megabucks "reform" movement on the lips.

I mean, is there any OTHER reason?

[HooptieWagon]

1. Bingo!

Third Way Dems (who control the Party) are simply for sale to the highest bidders.

[roody]

2. The Green Party accepts NO corporate donations.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. They're "reforming" education in the same way that Enron "reformed" energy sales.

[yurbud]

17. and Enron eventually became the company that couldn't explain what good or service it actually

provided because there was none.

Just a house of mirrors of scams and shell corporations that went on forever.

And corporate Democrats want that to educate our kids.

[Starry Messenger]

4. Brian Jones is a Marxist.

He's been in the anti-privatization fight for awhile. His writings on education reform are great. I didn't know he was running for office.

[Smarmie Doofus]

22. A great link below. And before you scare the horses...

http://www.marxinsoho.com

... I'd say it's Marxism w. a human face.

i.e of the "Trotsky via E.V. Debs" variety.

There's "Marxism" and then there's.... you know.... "*Marxism*".

[blkmusclmachine]

5. Follow the Money. The DEMS are PAID to "misunderstand."

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!

[BrotherIvan]

6. +1000

Because who else are ya gonna vote for?

[Scuba]

7. What is this shit? You want President Romney?

[rhett o rick]

10. Hey.... oh I get it. LOL.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

19. Far too many here act like that.

[riderinthestorm]

8. You obviously didn't get the memo. Its fuck Nader and the Greens week

K&R for your post!

[winter is coming]

44. I misread your post title as, "It's fuck Nader and the Greens weak".

DU really is a lot more interesting when I have a smudge on my glasses.

[Maedhros]

9. Oh, they understand.

They're just being paid to "understand" differently.

[rhett o rick]

11. .

[Smarmie Doofus]

41. Extraordinarily well-put. And yes, I agree. nt

[joshcryer]

12. The Democratic Party has broader appeal.

http://redmillennial.com/2014/07/01/california-voters-support-teacher-tenure-ruling/

Generally the party is split on a lot of issues. The Green Party doesn't have to appeal to a large base, particularly independents who are even worse on issues like this.

[winter is coming]

45. Which part of the Democratic Party thinks teacher tenure is a bad thing, and why? n/t

[joshcryer]

50. It's certainly not a party platform plank.

But many Democrats are divided on the issue.

Some Democrats think the way tenure is set up doesn't help students as it disproportionately puts ineffective tenured teachers in impoverished schools. The judge ruled against CA's tenure approach due to several studies to those ends. Whether those studies are correct, I don't know, I can't find a rebuttal to them.

The poll in question (page 12): http://www.edpolicyinca.org/sites/default/files/Crosstabs_-PACE-cres.pdf

If 53% of Democrats are against Tenure and another 61% of Democrats are against Last in First Out, how does the Democratic Party respond to that? They must address it in some way. Some like Aren Duncan just jump up and down for joy because that's how they want to see things move forward. Others like Jerry Brown lamented the decision.

The Democratic Party doesn't have the advantage of pandering to a small subset of ideologies, it's gotta be big tent.

[Smarmie Doofus]

52. The "Arne Duncan part." Which would seem to be co-extensive with the "Barrack Obama part." Here:

>>>When the decision was issued Tuesday by Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Rolf M. Treu — who stayed his own decision pending appeal — school “reformers” who have long been trying to weaken teachers unions were thrilled. Duncan praised the decision, saying in a statement:

“For students in California and every other state, equal opportunities for learning must include the equal opportunity to be taught by a great teacher. The students who brought this lawsuit are, unfortunately, just nine out of millions of young people in America who are disadvantaged by laws, practices and systems that fail to identify and support our best teachers and match them with our neediest students. Today’s court decision is a mandate to fix these problems. Together, we must work to increase public confidence in public education. This decision presents an opportunity for a progressive state with a tradition of innovation to build a new framework for the teaching profession that protects students’ rights to equal educational opportunities while providing teachers the support, respect and rewarding careers they deserve.>>>>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/06/15/arne-duncan-issues-new-statement-with-the-right-lessons-from-vergara-trial/

The "why" is that the decision he praised ( Vergara) ended tenure in Cal. and thereby, in his view, made possible all the great things in paragraph 2.

[joshcryer]

55. Or "53% of CA Democrats."

[truebluegreen]

13. The Green Party isn't paid not to understand. nt

[MisterP]

14. third-party voters vote for the party's program: the mainstream parties are voted for the party

[yurbud]

15. thanks to person who sent ALERT on this!

otherwise I might have missed and opportunity to K & R this.

When Democrats are so wrong and corrupt on such a crucial issue as the education of our children and how we treat teachers, they do not deserve our blind support.

At a minimum, drawing attention to the Green position on this might influence the Democratic candidate to stop taking Democratic voters for granted and screwing us for the benefit of the highest bidder.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. What was the alert text?

Are they calling the post '3rd party advocacy'?

[yurbud]

33. yep.

[Smarmie Doofus]

42. How can I get a look at that? n/t

[yurbud]

49. like this:

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Third party advocacy is a no-no especially in an election year. See the "Vote for Democrats" part of ToS. I know this since I've had a thread locked for discussing a Libertarian Party platform position.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jul 4, 2014, 03:41 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Leave this. Fuck Ron Paul.

Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Post is not advocating for the Green party, though.

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think pointing out a position a 3rd party is strong on is fine. There is nothing wrong with getting ideas from other political parties.

Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: When Democratic candidates are DEAD WRONG and corrupt on such a crucial issue, we can't hold back our criticism.

At the very least, talking about this Green Party challenge could put the fear of losing into the Democrat and make him stop taking the Democratic base for granted.

I thank the person who sent the alert for drawing my attention to this post so I can rec it.

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

I am #5

[Smarmie Doofus]

59. Thanks. That's an odd alert given....

... that fact that the OP is clearly issue oriented and doesn't advocate electoral or $$$ support for the Greens.

Ironic ... also... in that I used to spend a lot of time under the OLD DU system trying to get the moderators to get posters ( Were they paid? Who knows.) to stop advocating for the NYC Republican mayoral candidate Bloomberg in head-to-head match ups w. our ( DEM) nominees.

Always UNSUCCESSFULLY, I might add.

Sec. Duncan's boss came down on this side of that issue:

http://www.buffalopost.net/?tag=michael-bloomberg

[jazzimov]

16. They don't. You simply agree with them.

I had tenured teachers who were terrible and should have been allowed to do other things that were better fits for them. But as teachers, they should have been let go. They never should have been allowed to gain tenure.

Our educational system is broken, and in dire need of reform.

The type of reform is not clear, but the status quo cannot be allowed to stand.

[yurbud]

18. sometimes teachers aren't replaced because there aren't better ones waiting

when the economy is good, higher paying jobs can look more attractive to some people who can't afford to be teachers.

Also, in some remote locations, not too many people show up to apply for the jobs.

If you want better teachers, you need to make the job more attractive with pay, smaller classes, and more autonomy in the classroom or at least autonomy from policies bought and paid for by wealthy individuals who know little about education other than money is going to it that they think rightly belongs in their pockets.

[winter is coming]

47. If they can't get into the system how do you know they're better teachers?

Perhaps we need to look at whether it's too easy for a teacher to get tenure, but I'm against doing away with it altogether. It's the only protection teachers have against yahoo-administrator-of-the-week.

[yurbud]

51. unfortunately, those attacking tenure don't really give a rat's ass about quality

They are pushing Teach For America temps who have far less training and more turnover.

They want cheap, disposable teachers, who either don't know or are too afraid to resist their harmful corporate driven policies.

[yurbud]

66. most of the time, it rests entirely on the principal until he determines someone is a bad egg

A couple of people at my wife's school went through the firing process.

The had to go through a period of being under the supervision of a master teacher, then observed by some other administrators before they could be fired, but one was and she thinks the other likely will be.

[conservaphobe]

20. Exactly.

Public education isn't meant to be a jobs program with no consequences for poor performance.

It also shouldn't be turned over to for-profit vultures.

The answer lies somewhere in the middle.

[nikto]

25. The answer may lie somewhere in the middle, but it is the MIDDLE-LEFT

Or maybe the reformers are right, after all.

Every profession has 1 or 2% who don't belong, and teachers are no different.
So let's go after ALL of 'em.

I say,
Why condemn the whole profession for 1 to 2%, and NOT condemn Lawyers, Doctors,
fund managers, policemen, construction workers, pastors and ministers, Insurance Reps,
web site managers, masseurs, billionaires and CEOs, etc etc etc


All those jobs deal with people in important ways, and some have far more power than teachers do.


ALL these jobs need to be regulated just like teaching, and their members fired EASILY,
whenever the public desires,
even if they are (unlike teachers) powerful and wealthy.
Society needs to be protected from many many others besides teachers.

Job security just encourages bad behavior. Surely in YOUR profession as well (gotta' admit it).

If no one has job security, then no one will be harmed by members of any profession,
including those malevolent, greedy teachers.

[LuvNewcastle]

56. Well said!

[winter is coming]

48. How do we define poor performance?

We don't want to discourage teachers from working with underachieving students.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

28. Why not remedial training?

Rather than simply firing people outright, why don't we invest in making them better? I can certainly see firing people who don't care about doing their job, but should the automatic response to people who aren't performing as well as we'd like simply be the pink slip?

[Smarmie Doofus]

46. You're onto something HUGE here:

>>>Much of the problem is there are too many bureaucrats in the public school system, and not enough teachers. In some schools there is a vice principal for every grade, and then a principal over all of them. Maybe there is good justification for that, but at least when I was going to elementary school there was one principal, and then the teachers and teaching assistants. >>>>

And that's something that's rarely recognized ( by *either* side).

The rest of your argument leaves me cold.

For example, what's your evidence for this:

>>>You are absolutely correct the educational system is broken and in need of reform.>>>>

Might as well start at the beginning.

[Smarmie Doofus]

61. Well.... lots of districts have plenty of cash.

And....AFAIK... no one in this region is clamoring for tenure to be ended in places like Scarsdale, Bronxville, Rye, Tenafly etc etc etc.

Someone I know went to HS ( PUBLIC! If you can believe it. ) w. Zuckerberg's (now a huge school "reform" cash-cow; the "Gates of Tomorrow!&quot sister in Ardsley ( upper-midde class leafy green north of NYC) . Believe me ... in Ardsley...they're not talking about their teachers' defectiveness and how they'd rather replace them w. newbies.

Nor do the teachers want for lack of supplies, I'll bet.

It's very much a CLASS thing, imo. In the city... it's a different picture. One of the reasons there's a big push to get rid of urban teachers w. big salaries is so the system can allocate that money in other ways. To a sane person, that would probably mean "classroom supplies" for starters. But that's not the way these people think.

Which brings me back to your earlier argument: re. the bloated bureaucracy. There are TRUCKLOADS of cash wasted on nonsense jobs of the type you have correctly identified. Coordiator of This , Supervisor of THAT, "Curriculum Developer", "Compliance Consultant". Principals, Vice Principals, Assistant Principals and Supervising Principals out-the wazoo. NYC has ersatz superintendents called "Network Leaders". In ADDITION to actual Superintendents.

Good grief.

And , naturally, the ever expanding army of lawyers. ( Of COURSE!)

You wanna *really* reform education? No one seems to be interested.

No one on the DEM side, anyway.

We'll see where the Greens go with this.

[betterdemsonly]

30. We've all had teachers we did not like

Most of my teachers were good! Anecdotes of bad teachers don't prove that is the problem. All these attacks are based on no hard evidence what so ever.

[roody]

37. You observe them.

[roody]

39. It's called a rubric in eduspeak.

That is how my school district evaluates me.

[nikto]

21. GOP=Charybdis; Democratic Party=Scylla

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=96763

[nikto]

26. Here's your answer to the thread question...

On July 4th, salute America's real flag.

[nikto]

29. The only way the Democratic Party can survive...

Is to become exactly like the GOP in every way.



C'mon, Dems, WE CAN DO IT!
Turn the Dems to GOP today, and save the party!




It's no worse than Jews turning into Nazis, or black folks joining the KKK.
It's easy-to-do!

We can do it!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_julY3XAJ89c/SWp6Glfyi1I/AAAAAAAAAXM/yUtCgwCG2Ac/s400/Yes+We+Can.jpg
















(You have nothing to lose except everything)

[betterdemsonly]

31. The democratic party has simply abandoned all issues

that might alienate its corporate donors. There is your answer.

[Puzzledtraveller]

32. F*CK NADER

[ReRe]

36. Because, evidently....

.... education (among other things) is now up for auction to the highest bidder. Corporate Dems have drunk the magic money-tainted koolade and have sold their principles down the river. I don't know what it is about money. To some people, money is like a magnet. If you are truly convicted to Democratic principles, you have the strength to back away from it. But if you are vain (and dare I say shallow), it pulls you right in and the former you is no longer you. You look the same on the exterior, but inside, you are changed. And if this describes you, look in the mirror into the eyes of a grand prostitute. Shame on Andrew Cuomo. It's almost impossible to believe that he is Mario Cuomo's son.

[Marrah_G]

43. Follow the money

[beachbum bob]

58. green party understand issues???LOL

they help bring Goerge Bush to the presidency in 2000 when their members supported the likes of Ralph Nader......everything since bears their responsibility from the Iraq war to deficits to the awful Supreme Court....thank you Green party and Nader supporters


you can't run from being responsible for what you brought america becasue "how well you understand the issues"

[JEB]

60. Thanks for your inciteful commentary on Education policy.

[JoeyT]

63. The really cynical answer is

the Greens aren't important enough to buy off, while some Democrats have been bought for a while. Let the Greens get some power behind 'em and the auctions will start.

[awoke_in_2003]

64. Because with the exception of a few social issues...

the two major parties are the same. Oh, dems may talk a good game from time to time, but their actions show exactly how they feel about the average American.

[yurbud]

65. Dems promise use some crumbs and deliver fewer

Republicans promise their voters magic beans, and then convince them that they have given them to them and they are actually growing.