Oh that sixteen year old Palestinian boy was burned alive

[malaise]

Real nice.
That's from the autopsy conducted with witnesses from both sides.
Rumors are that his kidnappers forced him to drink petrol then lit him alive.

There are no fugging words.

[Comrade Grumpy]

1. Settlers. n/t

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

2. First story I saw on TV news when I turned on the set today

Just awful. I agree that there are no words to describe these types of acts.

[yeoman6987]

3. And now the Palestinians will go after some more Israeli's

and then the Israeli's will go back after Palestinians and the cycle never ends. For two groups of folks who have had many countries try to help them settle this, I don't know what it is going to take. Both sides have lost so many folks in this. I just can't believe both sides are so stubborn.

[truedelphi]

28. What a real and totally assured peace would take is for

there to be various associations of moderates. But by 1999 or so, over 18 separate moderate groups in Israel had been done in violently - either by Hamas or by the other side, hard to say.

Pretty much what is happening world wide - as you watch the centrists (ie third way Dems) and the far right wing fight it out here.

We know from what happened between the hutu and the tutsi tribes in Rwanda, that people who should be helpful to each together will fight none the less. The more extreme members of either side of a conflict - the fact that only the extremists can exist mean that the way that is needed for a sustainable future, for a sensible future, is eliminated when there is little hope of real progressive voices making a stand against extremists of both sides.

[DetlefK]

40. The israeli settlers are religious fanatics:

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/06/kidnapping-left-settlers-nationalism-etzion-katif.html#

Quote:
"In an extensive piece in The New Yorker, Goldberg describes a conversation with Anat Cohen, a resident of the Jewish quarter of Hebron. “I asked her how she could let her son play amid the barbed wire and soldiers and barricades, and with snipers in the hills above. ‘Hebron is ours,’ she said. ‘Why shouldn’t he play?’ ‘Because he could get killed,’ I said. ‘There’s a bullet out there for each one of us,’ she said. 'But you can always die. At least his death here would sanctify God’s name.'”

Goldberg went on to ask Cohen how she reconciled her decision to live in Hebron with an even greater Jewish imperative (mitzvah) — the sanctity of life — and in this case, the sanctity of her children’s lives. “She glared at me. ‘Hellenizers’ — secular Jews — ‘will never understand,’ she said with contempt” before telling him the story of Hanna, who ordered her seven sons to disobey an order by King Antiochus to bow to a statue (Tractate Gittin 57b). After the last of her sons was executed, the mother threw herself off a roof. The Talmud states that upon her death, a voice was heard from heaven singing “A happy mother of children.” "

[Duckhunter935]

47. Both sides have them

I fear peace will never come until that goes away.

[AngryAmish]

60. As an aside, the Hutu and Tutsi have been going at it at least 1500 years.

Perhaps more. Ethnic/racial conflicts are intractable because racism comes naturally to folks.

[truedelphi]

100. heh. heh.

Last edited Sun Jul 6, 2014, 06:03 AM - Edit history (1)

Of course, add in the despicable shit that the CIA stirs up, and the conflicts that might have been minor brouhaha's become major ones.

For instance, around the time of War against the Iraq People Number One came about, Iraq as a nation had a very high standard of living. Women were encouraged to get graduate degrees, many people spoke three if not four languages, and women did not have to wear a burkha. And a very broad tolerance of all the major world religions was evident. There were Sunnis, there were Shi'a, there were Christians, and Jews, and even Sufis.

Then add our wonderfully CIA and its hornet's nest type of behavior, that is, our military strikes and a decade of sanctions, and and you will see a society rent asunder. Then Iraq War II made things even worse, of course.

[warrant46]

103. The two Bush clowns and Cheney = War Criminals

[AngryAmish]

105. you gotta admit the Bantu migration is one of the big events in human history

Central africa, great lakes are is ground zero of the bantu v nilotic genocidal war.

[Scootaloo]

114. And the Hutu and Tutsi are both Bantu

In fact the two terms were pretty much interchangeable though their history; the hard-and-fast definitions are a product of belgian rule, where census-takers wanted one group to be one group, and separate from the other... So the colonial government came up with a completely arbitrary standard of measurement - Anyone with more than ten cows became a Tutsi.

"They've been fighting for thousands of years" is as much nonsensical western bullshit to excuse inaction over (or worse, support for) genocide in Africa as it is in the Middle East. Both conflicts are very recent, both can be traced directly to European rule and interference in these territories, and both showcase what happens when an outside power empowers and arms minorities in a territory to rule over -and against - the majorities. "oh, they've always been doing that" is simply dismissive dehumanizing bullshit.

it's also staggeringly hypocritical, given Europe's history...

[AngryAmish]

124. Tutsi probably differ genetically from Hutu

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/tutsi-differ-genetically-from-the-hutu/

[Scootaloo]

131. You could likely get the same result by examining two groups of Tutsis, or Hutus

Hutu Group A is genetically different from Hutu Group B by the same margins.

We're looking at two tribes that have spent way more time intermarrying than fighting, to the point that when colonial rule was imposed, most members of one group could make legitimate claim to being members of hte other as well.

Again, the hard-and-fast division was completely arbitrary based on who was wealthy and who was not, as decided by Belgian rulers.

Now, if you want to talk about the Twa, there's a genetically distinct population.

[truedelphi]

133. Thanks for shedding some light on the situation.

There is far too much justification of current day wars by saying, "Well, this group and that group haven't gotten along since (Name a year shortly after 100 Ad, or even before.)"

Here in the USA, already there have been revelations of scenarios that the CIA could use to cause regional mini-civil wars here in California. You have the lumber folks vs environmentalists, the city vs rural citizens, then there are the newly arrived immigrants against either everyone else or some segment of their own immigration movement (El Salvadorians against Guatamalens, for instance.)

And should those wars break out, is it really valid to say, "Well, Americans have been fighting each other since April 1861?" That statement would be a total misrepresentation of our society.

But the same mentality tries to tell us that the Iraqi people ave always been tooth and nail against each other, or the Tutsis and Hutu have always been against one another. When the reality in both those societies has indeed been about the many instances of inter-marriage, until underground and outside interests colluded to bring about the demise of their adaptive societies.

[malaise]

127. There is no objective analysis of Rwanda without a

discussion of Leopold's colonial policies.

[truedelphi]

135. Leopold Who? would be most people's rsponses.

We all know who Adolph Hitler was, but his mentality was very apparent in most First and Second World nations at that time. (If you ever get the chance, read Life Magazines dating back to like 1916 or so. The "n" word is used for African Americans, the "k" word for Jewish people in some of the published letters to the editor. Lynching is discussed as a fact of life, and so is some citizens' worry about the need to purify the national gene pool. Such strange things are discussed.)

And because of WWII, the focus was never on Leopold, even though so much of what he accomplished was in terms of the same genocide and cleansing that Hitler achieved (although Hitler's stage of operation was more world wide, and in places that the media focused on, not the backwaters of Africa.)

[malaise]

136. Leopold was a monster

but he sure gets a pass on this planet

[malaise]

125. Not just the CIA

They all have their intelligence agencies and their propaganda agencies - not to mention the financiers.

[truedelphi]

134. That is very true.

A point I neglect to think about, as my focus, as a member of this society that is watching the Black Op Budget go mainstream due to Nine Eleven, I spend some moment every single day worrying that we are about to be as the East German people were under Stasi.

[AlbertCat]

29. I don't know what it is going to take.

Atheism?

[cactusfractal]

34. The best remedy yet n/t

[defacto7]

52. Not sure about it being the remedy

but it would be the beginning of looking at life and the world without the bondage and ignorance that comes with extremism. Things could get better from there.

[yellowwoodII]

58. We could start--

By stopping our funding of just one side.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

[User_Friendly]

81. And a few hundred generations...

Doubt that we make it that far...

[onecent]

82. Why not!!!!

[JI7]

96. many Jews and Gays were treated Badly under the Soviet Union

[Scootaloo]

99. The Soviet Union had a god, his name was Josef Stalin

[JI7]

118. ethnicity, nationality also contribute to things like this

in this case i would say those are stronger than religion.

[AlbertCat]

130. ethnicity, nationality

They're all the same "race"

And nationality is closely allied to some religion in that area.

At least it would get rid of the fable of some promise by some god to some tribe.

[gratuitous]

123. The atheistic regimes of Stalin and Mao were notably peaceful

Maybe that's it.

[AlbertCat]

129. atheistic regimes of Stalin and Mao

Replacing god with a cult of personality is not "atheistic" in the sense I mean.

[gratuitous]

138. Ah, I see

Not true Scotsmen, then.

[AlbertCat]

139. Not true Scotsmen, then.

No.

It's just that replacing a god with yourself is not the usual course of atheism. It surely does not represent the average atheist.


Why would anyone think it would?

[gratuitous]

140. Search me

After all, the atheist contingent around here is extraordinarily circumspect when it comes to lumping all people of faith together. Can't imagine how anyone would get atheistic regimes confused with the True And Usual Course of Atheism.

[AlbertCat]

141. lumping all people of faith together.

But "people of faith" DO exhibit many many of the same things that makes them "people of faith". Stuff like go to worship, wear the same clothing or symbols.... y'know, those disciplines that one must do to BE whatever faith one is... or they are out of the congregation. It really doesn't matter what faith you are talking about. The basic template is the same.

Since there is no atheist "doctrine" or rituals, it's harder to lump them together. They all aren't doing the same basic things (meeting together to do ancient rituals to try to make their superstitions relevant)....unlike most "people of faith". Atheists are NOT doing something: believing in a god. That's it.... period. Sure some wear atheist T-shirts or jewelry.... but many atheists are "in the closet" and keep it to themselves.

"People of faith" simply don't seem to get it when it comes to the way atheists think and behave. They project their own "faith behavior" onto nonbelievers. Stop that!

[yellowwoodII]

51. But the payback won't be equal

Because The Israelis have all of the war materials that we have provided to them.

[truedelphi]

137. And so many of those war materials were recently provided, at a time

When our Fed Governmental officials stated that our budget deficit was far too high, and that our communities need to now learn to live under total austerity.

Summer 2010 - Geithner tells California Governor that a 20 billion dollar loan made out on behalf of Calif.'s 37 million people would be unacceptable, as it would add to the deficit.

Over the next thirteen months, some 255 billion dollars of military hardware were given outright to leaders of the UAE and the State of Israel.

That 255 billions of dollars should have been allocated for the states here in the US that were facing budget problems, not to helping out war- mongering forces. (And don't forget - our budget problems and the total economic collapse of 2008 were due to the house of cards that Geithner and his buddies on Wall Street created, and then presented to the American people as a sound economy, that is, the housing bubble of 1996 to 2006.)

[Duckhunter935]

4. bad enough

why do you have to spread rumors? That just makes it worse and whips up a frenzy even when not true and you do not know it to be true do you?

I feel sorry for this young man and the three other young men that were killed also.

[alsame]

7. It's not rumor

Palestinian teen burned alive, autopsy shows

Jerusalem (CNN) -- Mohammed Abu Khedair, a Palestinian teenager who was abducted and killed in Jerusalem this week, died from being burned alive and hit on the head with a blunt object, according to Palestinian General Prosecutor Mohammed al-Auwewy, citing a medical autopsy.

Al-Auwewy said the autopsy discovered traces of smoke inside the lungs of the 16-year-old, indicating that it was inhaled while the fire was burning.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/05/world/meast/mideast-tensions/

[Duckhunter935]

10. I know that is very true

This was part of the OP, do you know this is true for a fact?

Rumors are that his kidnappers forced him to drink petrol then lit him alive.

[malaise]

12. That was on the news n/t

[Duckhunter935]

13. link please

What news, is it a fact or a rumor that may not be true?

[liberalhistorian]

18. Why is it so hard for you to believe

that the Israeli side can do these things? If it were the other way around, would you be so insistent on it just being "rumors" and demanding even more links when such links have already been provided (it's just that it's not what you want to hear)? Something tells me you would not.

And settlers who do these things are no better than the terrorists they decry.

[Duckhunter935]

19. And you would be wrong

I like facts not just unsubstantiated rumors. I know both sides do these things and lets not make things worse by posting non-facts that are just put out there to incense people and work them into a frenzy.

What link was posted to PROOF that the Israelis made this poor young man drink gasoline? All I saw was a rumor posted by the OP which most times are not true.

Israelis kill, Palestinians kill, revenge killings never will stop.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

20. The autopsy shows it's NOT a "rumor". "Posting non-facts" ... WTF? nt

[Duckhunter935]

21. they found gasoline in his stomach?

The facts seem to be he was alive and breathing, conscious or unconscious we do not know when he was burned to death. The rumor posted by the OP was he was forced to drink gasoline, do you know that to be fact or not?

[jeff47]

22. Really? You object to whether or not he had gas in his stomach as he was set on fire?

Probably should take a few steps back and rethink your position here.

Especially since the gas in his stomach would not have ignited, and thus not really mattered when burning him alive.

[Duckhunter935]

24. I object at posting rumors

to inflame

The facts of the case are bad enough with out embellishment. A Palestinian boy was abducted and killed, burned alive and had been hit in the head. I just hope he was unconscious when he was burned alive. I do hope they find those responsible and put them away for a long time, This is one of the cases I could almost go for the DP.

Gasoline in his stomach would have confirmed the rumor that the OP is posting.

[Duckhunter935]

36. I have, Mohammed Abu Khdeir was burned alive

from what I have researched he was not made to drink gasoline prior to that as it seems to have been wrongly put out in the OP. No sign of that in his autopsy so I will go by that proof and those facts.

[hatrack]

71. Gosh, that makes all the difference, doesn't it?

Whether he was burned alive doesn't really matter.

What matters is the Olympian Standard of Truth that you, Duckhunter, have revealed to all of us here today.

Let us now thank Duckhunter for his revelation!

[Duckhunter935]

75. As I have said that all along

You might just want to rethink your comment

I just hope you feel the same way about the three Israeli teens murdered also.

[Duckhunter935]

38. or when the Israeli boys were murdered

or when any other bullshit tit for tat action over there happens

[Duckhunter935]

41. Simon Everitt, 17 ?????

I think you have the wrong person

Maria Chandler, 40, Jimi-Lee Stewart, 25, and Jonathan Clarke, 20, killed 17-year-old student Simon Everitt in a re-enactment of a scene from a spoof horror movie called Severance. Jurors returned guilty verdicts at Norwich Crown Court following a four-week trial.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5408130/Three-guilty-of-grotesque-murder-which-copies-horror-film.html

[Ed Suspicious]

45. You are right. I grabbed the wrong link. Deleting. Sorry, I made a mistake.

[Duckhunter935]

46. We all do it

no issues

[Ed Suspicious]

50. I don't know the source, but here is a link.

http://972mag.com/israeli-police-are-exacerbating-the-violence-with-gag-orders/93034/

"Following an autopsy that was performed with a Palestinian forensic physician present, the Palestinian media published the shocking news that the boy had apparently been forced to drink gasoline and was then burned alive. But the police have not offered any updates regarding their progress toward finding the perpetrators. As a result, rumors are flying, the atmosphere of incitement is becoming increasingly dangerous and the Palestinian public increasingly suspicious."

[Duckhunter935]

54. thanks for the link

[H2O Man]

42. It's not about you.

[Duckhunter935]

43. who said it was?

post all of the rumors you want, just do not get so worked up when they are called out

[H2O Man]

53. Read you contributions

to this discussion. It's possible that you will see why I suggested that to you; it doesn't seem likely, however.

The OP was by one of the most thoughtful, kind, and gentle human beings that I have had the pleasure of knowing. Someone who I have the utmost respect for. And one who has never attempted to "stir the pot" of outrage and fear. Just the opposite.

You might find it beneficial to re-consider how you sound here. I say that politely, under the assumption that you may simply be emotionally involved and unaware of how you are coming across.

Peace,
H2O Man

[Duckhunter935]

61. Thank you

but this news is bad enough to not have to embellish it with rumors. The OP might be the most kind person in the world but did he also post something like this for the three Israeli teenagers that were murdered. Both sides on this are acting like savages in the name of religion and I think it is just sick at the waste on both sides.

I am sure you have also read my contributions That I hope they catch the murderers and they are tried and convicted. This is one case where I waiver on the death penalty.

[malaise]

65. I am female and I did not embellish anything

I simply wrote what was broadcast on the news including the rumor about being forced to drink petrol.

[Duckhunter935]

67. If I called you a male

I apologize, I think your OP would have the same effect without posting rumors. I do give you credit for at least saying it was a rumor. I also hope you feel the same way about the killing of the three Israeli teens. I think both are horrible and I hope the ones that did them are caught and prosecuted.

[malaise]

68. I condemn all murder

Here's the difference - we do not know who kidnapped and killed those three Israeli teenagers. There are 'rumors' with nothing substantiated but there has been widespread retribution with not one shred of evidence as to who kidnapped them or killed them.
On the other hand there is video of the Palestinian kid being dragged into a car. Now there is an autopsy report which is both chilling and frightening.

[Duckhunter935]

77. That is good

The retribution is wrong and I fear there will be more from the Palestinian side now especially when the rumors fly. More than likely it was not Jewish settlers that killed the three Israeli teens. I have not seen or heard of the autopsy report on them but I would think it is also chilling. Too bad we do not have video of that also. You did not seem to post on those murders at all though.

I have been posting for years condemning both sides for this and will continue.

[onecent]

83. OMG..our media IS NOT RELIABLE...

[LittleBlue]

25. Your response should have been "sorry, I didn't realize it was news"

Why not just concede that you were obviously wrong?
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/world/middleeast/autopsy-suggests-palestinian-boy-was-burned-alive-reports-say.html?_r=0&referrer=

[Duckhunter935]

26. wrong about what?

as I have stated several times, the boy was burned alive, more than likely by Israeli settlers. I hope they are caught and put away for a very long time.

[Duckhunter935]

27. Its news, I agree.

Your link still does not prove the rumor of him being forced to drink gasoline, why is it so hard for you to admit you might be wrong about something?

[quinnox]

5. Barbaric behavior. It's shameful what the Palestinians have to deal with. President Carter is

so right in his opinions of this issue.

[malaise]

6. +1,000

Yes and people pretend there is some moral equivalence here.
All murder is disgusting, but what has been done to these people is unconscionable.

[abelenkpe]

14. Agreed. nt

[Warpy]

8. This is why I despise both sides in this mess

They're both wedded to the maximum in vicious hatred and violence.

Living in the middle east seems to do that to people.

[Duckhunter935]

11. agreed

[msongs]

15. there you go again criticing the family values of the religion crowd. :-) nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. Living in conflict over land seems to do that to people.

Look no further than the history of the US for an example. Native atrocities against white settlers, retributive atrocities by settlers (backed by His Majesty's Forces, in the colonial era, and then by the US Cavalry), from pretty much the beginning with the massacre of Virginia colonists in 1622 up through Wounded Knee. It only stopped when there was no more frontier and the Native Americans had been reduced in numbers through disease, starvation and slaughter, with the remnant herded onto reservations.

[riderinthestorm]

23. + 1 nt

[MoonRiver]

9. ...

All 4 murders were terrible and tragic, but the Palestinian boy's death seems particularly horrific. Will that region EVER see peace?

[Tetris_Iguana]

30. There will never peace in the Middle East

Until one faction becomes utterly dominant over all the others, similar to how a poster above described the situation between Americans and Native Americans.

It will likely be very terrible, and many millions will die. But the Middle East needs to figure this out in their own.

I strongly suspect many middle eastern countries, including possibly Israel, will not exist in a generation's time.

[hatrack]

74. Or until all sides jettison the Psychopathic Sky-God bullshit, whatever the flavor . . .

Short of one of these two possibilities, ain't going to happen.

[Duckhunter935]

78. Sorry to say

I think you are right

[Tetris_Iguana]

92. That would certainly help.

Especially if they rid themselves of worshiping power, money, and pride.

[Scootaloo]

44. "Will that region ever see peace"?

Peace doesn't just fall from the sky one day.

The core of this conflict is territory. it's dragged up a lot of other baggage, but the territory is the central issue that needs attention - everything else, for all its "heartfelt sincere beliefiness" is fluff, distraction from the core issue.

Israel has been grabbing territory from someone else since day one; literally, day one. In 1948, israel sought recognition fromthe rest of the world, and it declared its borders to be contiguous with the outlines suggested by UNGA Res. 181. At the time of this declaration, Israel was occupying territory beyond those bounds - Western Galilee, southern Gaza, and several potions of the West Bank. When hostilities ceased between Israel and the Arab League, these territories were behind the Armistice line - which is why it's an armistice line and not a border. In 1949, Israel requested formal annexation of these pieces of territory as a condition for allowing some refugees back into Israel - the request was denied. And good thing too, since the UN has no authority to hand someone's territory over to someone else.

Basically, the legal boundaries of Israel mirror those drawn in 1947, as those are the boundaries Israel declared to the world when it sought recognition as an independent sovereign state. Everything beyond those bounds belongs to someone else and Israel has no right to any of it. Yes, that includes Jerusalem.

Of course if Israel were ever going to follow international law on this issue it would have done so in the period between 1949 and 1956. it didn't, so we have to assume it's never going to do so, on its own - especially as it has since added Golan and even more of the West Bank to its annexupation.

Simplifying things is that the current Palestinian government, since Oslo, has had an offer on the table, that contingent on a peace agreement, territory on the Israeli side of the Armistice lines goes to israel legally. That is they're not demanding Israel pour itself back into its declared borders, and are willing to shave off a third of their own legal and rightful territory as a gift to Israel as part of a peace agreement. While it is their legal right to make such a demand, it's not especially realistic.

Unfortunately, by now it should be pretty clear to all spectators that israel has no interest in stopping its eastward stomp. In fact the charter of the leading Israeli political party, Likud essentially promises the annihilation of any hope of an Arab state east of the Jordan. There's no less reason to take them at their word than we do when we look at Hamas' covenant that promises more or less the same thing going the other way.

Speaking of Hamas, if flying pipe bombs and the occasional kidnapping is the best that Palestinians can offer by way of organized resistance to the invasion of their territory, well, they're clearly not going to accomplish anything with those efforts.

So then. Israel will not deliver peace until the Jordan is its Eastern border and every Palestinian in the way is dead, caged, or exiled. Palestinians obviously are unable to stop this process militarily (not that this would be a peaceful process, obviously), and have huge hurdles to go through politically.

We are one such hurdle. You and I and most of the people who are reading this are citizens of the United States - most of the readers who aren't are Europeans and Australians, two other hurdles. We're all citizens of democracies, yet our governments have invested extensively in what is amounting to the slow but sure eradication of Palestine as a state and possibly even as a people, and i like to hope that such an agenda is in opposition to what most of us want to see as the outcome of this mess.

You want peace? The only way it's going to happen is from outside pressure from the US, from EU, from whoever else is invested. BDS, campaigns to bar US funds from being granted to support the annexupation, organizing support for Palestinian bids at the UN, etc. harass your representatives with phones, letters, and email. Not just the ones in DC - go local as well. Momentum begins with small motions.

[malaise]

55. Excellent post

Thank you

[nomorenomore08]

112. +2

[tabasco]

17. Humans are less than animals

We are depraved and should become extinct. We are destroying our biosphere and committing acts of extreme cruelty on one another.

People wonder why I am a misanthrope. Acts like this one are just one reason.

I wish the good people could survive and the evil ones die. But I don't think it can work that way.

[totodeinhere]

31. We probably will go extinct at some point and then the earth can begin to heal.

After all 99% of the species ever to have existed have already gone extinct. Will homo sapiens be next? It might be only a matter of time.

[malaise]

64. Not all of us are depraved

but we are the most cruel and destructive species on the planet because we actually have the capacity to use rational thinking in our decision-making.

[MattBaggins]

142. Ya know what they say

If you feel so strongly that mankind should go extinct... Are you willing to get the party started?

[tabasco]

143. I've never heard "them" say that.

Weird.

[totodeinhere]

32. Did you also start an OP about the three Israeli teenagers who were abducted and brutally

murdered?

[Duckhunter935]

49. somehow I doubt it nt

[Scootaloo]

59. Plenty of others did. Were you away from DU? Try the search function. n/t

[totodeinhere]

87. I was asking the OP if he or she started an OP about the dead Israelis. I am aware that

there were other threads and I don't need to do a search for it. My point is that is seems rather one-sided to me to talk about the tragic death of the Palestinian boy without even mentioning the dead Israelis.

[Scootaloo]

93. Did you demand those threads talk about the two Palestinian kids killed at Beitunia?

Did you even know about them? Perhaps not, because outside of the I/P group, there were no threads about Nadim Nuwara or Mohammad Salameh or Muhammad 'Azzah (critically injured when shot in the chest). There were threads for Naftali Frenkel, Gilad Shaer, and Eyal Yifrah, as you noted. Six boys, all of an age, all unarmed, five murdered, one severely injured.

Now, since you did not demand that posters commenting on and presenting articles on the kidnapping and murder of the three Israeli boys devote equal time to the murder of two Palestinian boys, isn't it a bit one-sided for you to make such a demand on a thread regarding the murder of a third Palestinian child?

Or is it that this is some sort of measuring contest, where one dead boy is weighed against another in some competition to see which is more worthy of our attention and angst? Naftali, Gilad, and Eyal are not part of Muhammad Hussein Abu Khdeir's story. He never met them, they never met him. Their only relevance here is that it's possible some nutjob used their murder to justify his.

There's really no need for you to come into the thread and start with the underhanded implications against the OP just because he does not devote equal time to two different stories just to assuage your own preferences.

[totodeinhere]

95. You asked me a question and then before I could answer you answered it for me.

I haven't participated the I/P group but if I were I certainly would also have been in favor of a balanced discussion of those murders.

It's not fair to hold me up to some sort of obligation concerning a group that I haven't ever participate in. Since I haven't even read those threads about Nadim Nuwara or Mohammad Salameh or Muhammad 'Azzah how could I have been expected to comment on it? But I am participating in this thread and I continue to believe that it is unseemly to mention one murder without mentioning the other murders. How hard could it have been for the OP to make a quick mention of the dead Israelis? Dwelling on one murder without even mentioning the others does leave the impression of bias.

[Scootaloo]

98. Your only participation on this thread is to wag your finger at the OP

And you find it "unseemly?" Why is that? What makes talking about a murdered Palestinian boy as being a murdered Palestinian boy so "unseemly?" Must his death be paired with murdered Israeli boys to be worth a topic?

[BillZBubb]

104. You nailed him!

Excellent smack down!

[WinkyDink]

106. Why are you bringing up yet a different case?

[Scootaloo]

107. To illustrate the point for the benefit of totodeinhere

[malaise]

120. Very well said

Scootaloo

[nomorenomore08]

113. Because it somehow makes his horrible death ever-so-slightly less horrible?

[Duckhunter935]

66. I think you are correct

in your assessment.

[reddread]

110. a person?

wtf?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Anwar_Sadat

[reddread]

115. I certainly did

Last edited Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:53 AM - Edit history (1)

sounds a little odd.
you do understand the ramification of singular versus plural?
why would you want to make that mistake?

[malaise]

69. Do we have autopsy results on their horrific murders?

Do we have evidence re the scumbags who kidnapped and murdered them?

Do you see a difference with merely condemning murders and writing an OP about an autopsy report about this horrific murder of a teenager who was seen being dragged into a car.

[totodeinhere]

85. The bodies were found but I don't know if there was an autopsy or not. But are you

suggesting that only murders with released autopsy reports are worthy of discussion? Merely finding the bodies of the Israeli teenagers should be sufficient for a discussion.

[malaise]

88. I started an OP based on the release of an autopsy

of a person who faced a frighteningly cruel end.
I don't have to explain that to anyone.

[tonybgood]

33. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind!

There is no reason for this. There is no justification for this. None of that matters. The hate that has been kindled in that part of the world could ignite the next world war.

[H2O Man]

48. Recommended.

Human beings are capable of extreme kindness, and of terrible crimes against humanity.

If the US is to have any influence in assisting reconciliation, it can only result from sending individuals with backgrounds in conflict resolution, which do not include violence. Although that is an option that the US has, it is yet to be tried.

Thank you for this OP. Although what it reports is both stark and offensive -- indeed, too much so for one of our friends -- it is important.

[malaise]

128. Thanks for your responses

Waterman

[AngryAmish]

56. Jeez.

I hope they catch the killers.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

57. Yet, we humans like to tell ourselves that we're the pinnacle of the evolutionary scale.

False advertising.

[defacto7]

62. Has anyone thought about the possibility

that the same group could be responsible for both murder incidents? There are radical extremists on both sides who want a war, a major one. There are religionists who want Armageddon and this would be their fantasy of eternal whatever. And to stir up this kind of hatred is exactly what they would want to do. There are also extremists who are politically motivated enough to conjure this kind of heinous act to slash all peace prospects. There are plenty of radical groups who could do this in the name of ..blank..

Taking sides doesn't bring a reasonable assessment of this terrible thing, it only creates more of the same madness.

[malaise]

73. Truth will out

even if it's not in our lifetimes

[spanone]

70. jeebus....fucking sick people.

[Skidmore]

72. Yesterday morning I caught a video clip of Netanyahou

calling for Israelis to execise restraint and humanity and I hadn't yet heard about this death or the details. The clip was followed by a brief story about Israel having air bombed Palestinean settlements daily for the past two weeks, showing bombs bursting homes in to flames on the ground. Leaves you unable to breathe and nauseous. Some lives are always worth more than others, so it seems.

[malaise]

76. What scares me is that one side doesn't need evidence

for retribution to begin, but I must not mention a rumor about one of the victims being forced to drink petrol raised by the world's news media.

I don't know who kidnapped those three Israeli teenagers and I hope the murderer(s) are caught but collective retribution is madness.

[Skidmore]

79. It scares me that we have equally zealot

fundamentalist Christians over here happy to see this erupt into a colossal mess so that they can get their Rapture. I don't know how this can be defused, but it for all of the other nations who have their fingers in this mess to withdraw would certainly help. And both sides need to start seeing the other as human beings, not hash marks on a score card.

[malaise]

84. I was thinking about that

but it is never just about religion - nationality works just as well - just look at the treatment of women and children from Central America. It's easy to foment hate - really easy but once unleashed it cannot be put back in the bottle.
It has to stop.

[Duckhunter935]

80. so is firing rockets and morters at civilians

I think both side need to stop the retribution on the other. Any excuse and it starts all over again.

January

In January, Palestinian Militants launched 22 rockets and four mortar shell at Israel in 19 separate attacks. Two of the rockets were launched from Sinai.[6][7]
This section is incomplete. (March 2014)

January 13

Two rockets were launched to the Northern Negev desert, near Sderot. There were no injuries or damage reported[8]

January 16

At 2am, five rockets were fired into Israel. The Iron Dome eliminated all rockets, as they would have hit Ashkelon. No injuries or damage were reported.[8]

January 30

A rocket exploded in a non-inhabited area of Sdot Negeb Regional Council. No injuries or damage were reported.[9]

January 31

From the Sinai Peninsula a rocket was launched towards Eilat. The Iron Dome intercepted the rocket. The radical Salafi organization Ansar Bait al-Maqdis took responsibility for the launch.[10]
February

In February, Palestinian Militants launched nine rockets at Israel in seven separate attacks.[7]
This section is incomplete. (March 2014)

February 6

A Color Red siren alerting residents of a rocket launch from Gaza has been sounded in Ashkelon, followed by an explosion.[11]

A further rocket launched from the Gaza Strip exploded in the Eshkol Regional Council. No injuries or damage were reported.[12]

February 8

A red alert siren sounded in Sha'ar Hanegev and Sdot Negev Regional Councils. A rocket hit an open area in Sha'ar HaNegev. No injuries or damages were reported.[13]

February 10

Palestinians fired a rocket into the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council, triggering sirens. After nightfall, a second rocket was launched into the same area. No injuries or damage were reported. Israel responded with an air strike on an underground rocket launcher in the central Gaza Strip.[14][15]

February 14

In the evening, Palestinian Militants launched two rockets into Israel. One landed in the Ashkelon Coast Regional Council, the other in the Eshkol Regional Council. No injuries or damage were reported.[16]
March

In March, Palestinians launched 65 rockets and mortar shell, in 23 attacks.[17]

March 1

In the night on Mount Hermon were heard loud blasts. The IDF checked the area and found the remains of two rockets near an IDF outpost. No injuries or damage were reported.[18]

March 3

Mosaab Zaaneen, a 25-year-old militant from Palestinian Islamic Jihad, was killed in an Israeli air strike as he was attempting to launch rockets from Beit Hanoun in the northern Gaza Strip. The Israel Defense Forces stated that the strike "was carried out in order to eliminate an imminent attack targeting civilian communities of southern Israel".[19]

March 5

Palestinians fired a rocket towards the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council, triggering sirens in local communities. The projectile landed within the Gaza Strip. Later, after nightfall, a second rocket was fired at Sderot. No injuries or damage were reported in either attack.[20]

March 11

After nightfall, Palestinians fired a rocket into the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council. The projectile landed in an open area, causing no injuries or damage.[21]

March 12–14

Palestinian Islamic Jihad Militants fired at least 60 rockets at Israeli cities and towns, in the heaviest barrage since 2012. No direct injuries were reported, but a 57-year-old woman was lightly injured while taking cover in Sderot. At least eight rockets fell within communities, with one exploding near a gas station and another near a public library. Explosions rocked the cities of Sderot and Netivot, and sirens sounded as far away as Beersheba.[22][23]
April
This section is incomplete. (April 2014)

In April, There were 19 rockets and 5 motar shell in 14 attacks towards Israel.[24]

April 1

Residents heard massive detonations. Three rockets were fired at Eilat, which were intercepted by the Iron Dome.[25]

April 3

The "Code Red" siren was heard 3 times in a row in the evening. No rocket landing were identified, therefore the rockets came down within Gaza.[26]

April 4

In the Hof Ashkelon Regional Council a rocket exploded in the open area, close to the border fence. No injuries or damage were reported.[27]

April 5

Militants in Gaza fired a rocket into Israel. No injuries or damage were reported.[28]

April 6

In the Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Council, near a kibbuz, was heard an explosion of a mortar shell. No red alert siren sounded before. No one was hurt, no damage reported.[29]

April 7

A mortar shell launched from Syria landed in the border fence area in the center of the Golan Heights. There were no reports of casualties or material damage. The mortar shell was not intended to hit Israel, but rather an unintended consequence from the Syrian Civil War. [30]

April 9

In the early afternoon a Color Red siren alerting residents of a rocket launch from Gaza has been sounded in Hof Ashkelon Regional Council. The rocket came down within the Gaza strip.[31] Later in the evening a mortar rocket hit a kibbutz in the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council. It caused material damage, but no one was injured. No Red Siren sounded prior to the rockets landing.[32]

April 13

Very early in the morning a mortar shell exploded close to the security fence in the open field, prior to a "red alert".[33] In the late night two more mortars were launched targeting Israeli soldiers, operating at the security fence in the Southern Gaza area. No one got injured.[34]

April 16

In the night, Militants launched several rockets at Southern Israel. No injuries or damage were reported.[35]

April 21

Militants in Gaza fired seven rockets into Israel during the last day of the Passover holiday. The first three projectiles struck uninhabited areas in the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council, activating "Code Red" sirens. No damage was reported in the attack. Another two rockets caused light damage in Sderot. Israel responded by striking three terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip.[36]

April 23

3 rockets were fired from Gaza at the Hof Ashkelon and Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Councils, after rocket alert sirens sounded. No injuries were reported.[37]

April 24

A mortar shell exploded near the fence in Southern Gaza.[38] Later in the day explosive device explodes near IDF force at the Northern Gaza border.[39] No injuries or damage were reported
May

Throughout May 4 rockets and 3 motar shell were launched from Gaza in 5 attacks towards Israel.[40]

May 1

A rocket hit an open area in Eshkol. No one war hurt, no damage was reported.[41]

May 21

Lots of mortar shells were fired at IDF forces on the Gaza boarder. No injuries, damages in attack.[42]

May 23

A rocket exploded in open field in Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Council. No reports of damages or injuries.[43]

May 31

In the Golan heights' area sirens were heard in several towns followed by explosions. It was assumed, that these rockets were not targeted to Israel but a result of the Syrian Civil War.[44]
June
Burning factory in Sderot, which was hit by a rocket from Gaza on June 28

June 11

A rocket fired from Gaza narrowly missed a main artery in southern Israel as it landed in a nearby dirt field without causing any injuries.[45]

June 14

2 of 3 rockets fired from Gaza fell in the Hof Ashkelon regional council in the afternoon. No injuries or damage were reported.[46]

June 15

In Ashkelon a series of explosions were heard in the evening. 4 rockets were fired from Gaza, 2 of them were intercepted by the Iron Dome. Fragments of the rockets fell across the city. There were no reports of injuries or material damages.[47]

June 16

A rocket from Gaza landed in an open area in the Ashkelon area. No damage or injuries.[48] This year Palestinians fired more than 500 firebombs, rockets and mortars.[49]

June 18

2 rockets fired from Gaza hit into a Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council community and caused light damage to a structure.[50]

June 19

In the evening a rocket was fired from Gaza. It struck an open field near Sderot.[51] Later again a rocket was fired at the city of Ashkelon. It was successfully intercepted by Iron Dome.[52]

June 20

A Color Red siren alerting residents of a rocket launch from Gaza has been sounded in the Hof Ashkelon area, but the rocket didn't make it outside of the Gaza strip.[53]

June 21

Gaza Militants fired a rocket into direction of Hof Ashkelon Regional Council in southern Israel. No injuries, but damage caused to a road in Hof Ashkelon. In the evening three rockets were fired at the Sdot Negev and Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Councils. All rockets exploded in the open area. No damages or injuries were reported.[54]

June 24

In the early evening Gaza Militants fired several rockets into Southern Israel. Two of the rockets were intercepted by the Iron Dome Missile Defense System, as the rockets would have hit inhabited areas. Targets have been Ashkelon and Sha’ar Hanegev Regional Council.[55] Again a rocket landed in the South, in the Sdot Negev Regional Council. There were light damage, but no injuries were reported.[56]

June 27

In the morning a mortar shell exploded near the border fence between Gaza and Israel. No one was hurt. A military vehicle operating in the area was lightly damaged.[57] In the evening 6 rockets were launched from the Gaza strip. Sirens were heard in many areas to warn for incoming fire. 4 rockets fell in the open field. 2 were intercepted by the Iron Dome anti-missile system, as these rockets would have landed in populated areas of Ashekelon.[58]

June 28

In the evening several rockets were fired from the Gaza strip. 2 rockets struck an industrial factory in Sderot, causing a fire. No one was hurt from any of the rockets, but the factory was burned to the ground. All other rockets exploded in the open area in Sdot Negev.[59]

June 29

4 rockets were fired from Gaza into the South of Israel in the evening. 2 were intercepted by the Iron Dome. 2 fell in open area near the border fence. Simultaneously a Palestinian opened fire at soldiers near the security fence.[60]

June 30

All night the "Code Red" siren was heard. 16 rockets were launched from Gaza in the early morning hours. Most of the rockets landed in open areas of the Eshkol Regional Council region. Some went down in the Sedot Negev Regional Council community. 1 of them causing light damage to a home. No human was hurt.[61]
July

July 1

In the late night Gaza terrorists fired a rocket at Israel. The rocket landed in the open field in the Eshkol Regional Council. No injuries or damage are reported.[62] In the morning 4 more rockets were fired. One fell in an open area in Sdot Negev. Another caused damage to several vehicles in the Eshkol Regional Council. A third rocket exploded in the area Hof Ashkelon Regional Council. No injuries were reported[63] The fourth rocket caused a fire near a packaging factory in Eshkol. Though it looked like the fire were turned off, it has spread. Firefighting planes and additional squads try to stop the flames. So far no injuries are reported.[64] In the evening a salvo of mortar shells was launched at the Eshkol Regional Council area. No red alert in advance, but Explosions were heard. Security forces are inspecting the area. No reports of inuries or damages.[65]

July 2

Short after midnight two mortar shells exploded in open areas in the Eshkol Regional Council. No damage or injuries are reported.[66] In the afternoon three mortar shells were fired at the same region. All exploded in open fields. No injuries or damage reported.[67] Again four mortar shells were fired in the Eshkol Regional Council. No one was hurt, no damage reported.[68] In the evening code red alaram was heard in the Ashkelon area. One rocket was intercepted by the Iron Dome Missile Defense System, one exploded in open field.[69] Red alert siren blared in the Eshkol and Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Councils.[70] Minutes after 2 rockets landed in open areas around.[71] Five rocktes were launched on the Sdot Negev Regional Council, three were launched towards Ofakim. One was shot down by Iron Dome, the others hit open fields. No damages ore injuries were reported.[72] A rocket was fired on Eshkol Regional Council. No damages, no injuries.[73]

July 3

1 hour past midnight the colour red siren is heard in Sderot and Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Council.[74] One rocket exploded in Sderot. None was hurt, but structures got damaged.[75] In the night and morning more than 10 rockets were fired at Southern Israel. Four of them hit homes in Sderot. One of the was a summer camp, but the rocket failed to explode, no one was injured.[76] In the early afternoon a rocket from Gaza exploded near Sderot's industrial area. No injuries or damages were reported. Another one fell in an open area near Ofakim.[77] Code Red sirens alerting residents of rocket launches from Gaza has been sounded in Sderot and the Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Council in the evening[78]and later again in Sderot and the Eshkol Regional Council[79]

July 4

This morning three rockets were fired at Sderot. Iron Dome intercepted one rocket, that would have hit the city. no injuries or damage were reported.[80] Around noon two mortar shells fired from the Gaza Strip exploded near a community in the Eshkol Regional Council. No injuries or damages were reported.[81] In the afternoon a rocket from Gaza came down just on the Israeli side of the border fence, aimed at IDF forced.[82] Not long afterwards two rockets were intercepted by the Iron Dome, which would have it Ofakim. Another one fell in the open field around. Several mortar rounds were also fired towards Keren Shalom, but only one fell in Israeli territory.[83] A rocket was fired into the Eshkol Regional Council, it came down near the border fence.[84] Another rocket fell in an open area.[85] Five more rockets hit open fields in Eshkol.[86] Another rocket hit Israel in the open area of Sderot. 25 rockets hit Israel today.[87]

July 5

In the morning a rocket launched from Gaza exploded in the open field in the Eshkol Regional Council. No injuries were reported.[88]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

[totodeinhere]

89. Unfortunately collective retribution is par for the course in war. That has always been

the case. That doesn't make it right of course but this has been going on since prior to 1948.

[Little Star]

86. I just don't understand how people can be so cruel. :(

[WatermelonRat]

90. By convincing themselves that "the enemy" is even crueller.

That's how its always been.

[dembotoz]

91. if that were my son i would have vengence

just sayin

[JI7]

94. those who take vengeance often have no relation to victims, i think they use it as an excuse

to commit violence.

the victim and family of victims are often too busy mourning if death is involved or helping to care for them if they survived.

[Rex]

97. Barbarism.

RIP.

[malaise]

119. A lot more here including this

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/06/fresh-video-shows-faces-pair-may-have-killed-palestinian
<snip>
In a separate incident, it was claimed by relatives that Abu Khdeir's 15-year-old cousin, Tariq, a US citizen who goes to school in Florida, was beaten by police during clashes on Thursday ahead of the funeral. His parents, Suha and Salah, said Tariq was detained but had been treated at an Israeli hospital. The US State Department said it was "profoundly troubled" by the reports and demanded an urgent investigation.

Samri said Tariq had attacked police and resisted arrest. He was detained with a slingshot in his possession used to hurl stones at police, along with six other protesters, including some armed with knives, she said. Tariq's father said he witnessed his son's arrest and insisted that the boy was not involved in the violence, adding that several officers were hurt in that specific protest, one of many that day

[MoonRiver]

101. Humans are cruel. I hate my species.

I don't think there will ever not be wars, genocide and destruction of our habitats, to mention just a few of common human atrocities, as long as we walk this earth. We are a very bad evolutionary experiment.

[malaise]

102. Isn't that the truth

[MoonRiver]

108. And I try, but basically feel hopeless, to effect a difference in the outcome.

We will destroy the earth's habitat and probably most of it's species, including ourselves, in the process. Then we will go down in the history of nobody as a very bad example of overspecialization, or something.

[Jackpine Radical]

109. The only thing that gives me hope is the possibility

that we aren't done growing up yet.

[JEB]

116. Being drunk on religion

is not an excuse for such actions.

[applegrove]

117. The Israelis will find the people that

did it. And put them away forever.

[cali]

121. Oh please. and how about the Israeli cops beating the shit out of an American child

the video is horrifying and those saintly Israelis are defending that brutal dog shit.

[malaise]

122. Well for a pleasant change the State Department has actually condemned

both the killing and the beating of his American cousin
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/06/fresh-video-shows-faces-pair-may-have-killed-palestinian

[applegrove]

132. I didn't say they were saints. But they do have a working democracy.

[Shrike47]

126. Oh Lord, this makes me sick. This needs to stop.