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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMonica Lewinsky gooooooooooooooafuggingway!
When I was 20 I too made choices and I was responsible for every single one of them.
Since you didn't ask your parents permission to get down below his desk, I don't know how he owed your parents an apology. You are an adult at 20.
Many older men approached me (as they do all young women) but I never saw a single politician (or anyone else for that matter) as some superior being who could make me do what I didn't want to do.
Indeed I usually responded in a way that made them avoid me big time. I simply threatened to tell everyone including media folks and their wives.
Fuck off Monica - enough already!!
JustAnotherGen
(31,834 posts)She wants Bill Clinton to apologize to her parents?
BTW - I agree with you - at 20 I made my own choices . . . And we are now the same (Monica and me that is). It's like she wants us all (her peers) to forget that the hook up 90's ever existed.
malaise
(269,106 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Should her parents apologize to Bill?
Groupies are groupies.
JustAnotherGen
(31,834 posts)I'm not willing to go that far.
I do think though - if she wants to move beyond it - move beyond it.
Man in power/authority - is a man in power/authority. Abuse of power? Yep.
But the 15 minutes are up - move on. Build your life. Build it 'not' around this since you are now being quoted as saying you want that.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)She wasn't abused. She got what she wanted. She isn't a victim. (see post #3 below)
antiquie
(4,299 posts)Monica Lewinsky had a long-running affair with a married man -- her high school drama teacher. It began just after Lewinsky's graduation in 1991, and ended in 1997, when his wife found out. During that time Lewinsky often babysat for their children.
In June 1995, when Lewinsky landed her internship in White House Chief of Staff Leon Panetta's office, she reportedly told friends, "I'm going to the White House to get my presidential kneepads."
http://www.nndb.com/people/588/000025513/
(emphasis is mine)
malaise
(269,106 posts)would be the only reason not to send one's dress to the laundry
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)The couple moved because of her, and she followed them!! Now there is talk that "The View" might hire her. Who wants to see her fat mug on TV daily? What does she have to offer? (I mean apart from what she offered Bill)
antiquie
(4,299 posts)Beacool
(30,250 posts)She stalked the guy, befriended his wife and managed to get her to let her babysit their children. When he found out who was babysitting his kids, he was appalled.
IMO, there's something wrong with this woman. How many 22 years old would deliver a pizza to the president and then proceed to flash the elastic of her thong at him?
3catwoman3
(24,023 posts)...to show your underwear to people.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)HR person in charge of the interns tell her she was no longer an intern - not to ever try to use the position on a resume and learn such behavior is not acceptable in any office, much less the WH.
There is blame on both sides.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Nedsdag
(2,437 posts)She feels if Kim can make money off of a sex tape and go out in public without shame and make money off of it, then why can't she do the same thing?
IronLionZion
(45,475 posts)since some of them can be VERY persuasive/manipulating/threatening. While we all know Bill Clinton seems like a great person, so did a 40 year old female teacher I know. Everyone likes her. No one would ever think of her as a predator. No one would believe she has a hidden dark side. It's not easy to say no to such a person. Who knows what the truth is with Bill and Monica, dude had a long history of fucking around and we know he's very charismatic and popular.
When I was 20 (not too long ago) I didn't know jack shit about such things. Good for you for being more savvy.
I think Monica is going about it all wrong, it looks like her motivations are for money and publicity, not to empower young people to say no or anything honorable like that.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)IronLionZion
(45,475 posts)the older married person is supposed to know better than the younger dumber person. Older people are responsible for the safety and well being of younger people.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...this was not new behaviour from either party...both were adults...and therein lies my biggest problem...they were both consenting adults...but the rethuglicans impeached him anyway...
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Just needs repeating.
I don't think Bill had to do much coercing.
No one cares about Monica's tacky behavior (or Bill's) anyway..... unless political/financial points can be had
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)In this situation, Bill Clinton was more than just an older charismatic man. He was Lewinsky's boss. Let that sink in. He was Lewinsky's boss. That gave Clinton a certain amount of power over Lewinsky's career.
Yes, Lewinsky was an adult, and she had an agenda as well. But this is not like a 50-50 affair that began on a subway, or anything like that. A closer analogy would be that of a distinguished married professor having an affair with his sophmore research assistant. Legal, but very, very unethical. And any reasonable person would condemn the professor's behavior.
As a side note, it really saddens me how people will twist and turn to defend the indefensible, as long as the accused is one of their own. And yes, everybody, left and right, has done it, since time began.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)So, you know he threatened to ruin her career if she didn't acquiesce?
Let's see your proof. Is it in that 75 million dollar report?
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Under normal circumstances (when the person isn't someone with the "right" politics), this behavior isn't acceptable. The rule of thumb isn't that the boss has to threaten someone's job on video in front of witnesses for it to be unacceptable.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)She became obsessed with him like she had previously been with her drama teacher. Of course he was an idiot for getting involved with her in the first place.
She kept trying to get to Clinton through his private secretary, Betty Currie. That's around the time that he sent her out of the WH. In her new post she started confiding on another person who was no longer in the WH either and was pissed off about it, Linda Tripp. Monica would spew her tales of woe and Tripp would record their conversations.
Oh what a tangled web we weave...........
840high
(17,196 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)he couldnt fire her. he could request another staffer but that was abut it
Yes, Lewinsky was an adult, and she had an agenda as well" this is were you should have ended.
my guess is if this were ron lewinski and hillary clinton people would have less of a problem with what went on
malaise
(269,106 posts)and very few didn't make advances.
I simply never played games with them - never made suggestions and certainly never showed any of them my thongs (well I've never owned one of those anyway). We make choices - I said no and never put myself in a situation where they could take advantage of me. Most men back off the minute you respond to overtures by asking them how they'd feel if their wife knew what they were suggesting?
Those very public photos of Monica speak volumes - she sure looks terrified -NOT.
Which sane woman without an agenda doesn't have her dress washed or dry cleaned but preserves it and trips all over herself for ReTHUGs.
Fuck Monica Lewinsky!!! She's crawling out for another paycheck.
IronLionZion
(45,475 posts)Big Dawg screwed up and he knows it and has admitted as much. He listed that as one of his 3 biggest failures along with Rwanda and health care reform.
malaise
(269,106 posts)It's about a grown woman who apparently liked married men.
IronLionZion
(45,475 posts)You're a stronger, more savvy person than I was. My story wasn't so happy. The consequences for me just never end.
moriah
(8,311 posts)It helped that we were hired by the company with the full knowledge that we were an item, and we worked together 50+ hours a week then came home together. They also saw that I worked my ass off.
What's more amazing is that our relationship survived until I got offered a better job, not my career.
Bosses screwing subordinates is not always verboten, but it certainly adds a complication to a relationship that I would not recommend. And screwing a married boss is just fucking insane.
JustAnotherGen
(31,834 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)also he was basically being anally probed by his rightwing enemies in search for reasons to impeach him looking to fabricate scandals and he hands him a real one on a silver platter. what in FUCK was he thinking? yeah pooor Bill Clinton, that evil seductress/harpie young enough to be his daughter, Monica Lewinsky held a gun to his poor , innocent head. jesus fucking christ.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)Shemp Howard
(889 posts)Clinton did not hire Lewinsky. And neither did he sign her paychecks (yes, I know she was an intern).
But Clinton gave her orders. Shuffle these papers, or whatever. And he could have had her promoted, in an instant. Or had her removed, in an instant. That's the power of a boss.
It is very much like a temp agency sending a person to work at a law firm. The temp agency hires the person, and cuts the paychecks for the person. But you had better believe that the head lawyer at the firm is the temp's boss.
Look, I'm a fan of Bill Clinton (except for NAFTA, but that's another story). But don't you see, to excuse his behavior here is to green-light that sort of behavior in general.
In this particular case, Lewinsky was most probably a very willing participant. But that's not always true! Clinton's behavior here must be condemned, not excused away. Let's error on the side of protecting the vulnerable.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)he affect her promotion.
but perhaps the key to all this difference of opinon is in your statement refering to her as "vulnerable". seeing this adult as vulnerable is sexist - implying that she is incapable of taking care of herself - she went there with or for (cant remember how she put it )her "presidential kneepads" this was not a vulnerable woman
see reply 26 as well
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)A vulnerable person is any person who is (in any way) under the control of another. That in and of itself is not a bad thing. For example, my boss can give me a raise. Or my boss can fire me. Yes, I'm vulnerable in this particular situation. And it's normal. Nothing to get upset about.
The problem is when a vulnerability is exploited for venal reasons. As in, suppose I'm a week away from a pay review, and my boss says to me "Shemp, I'm collecting for my favorite charity. Can I put you down for $1000?" My vulnerability is being exploited. Gender has nothing to do with it.
As for Lewinsky, she was in a vulnerable position, even if she was the one who initiated the affair, as seems probable. And that was NOT because she was a woman. It was because Clinton had great power, and she did not.
There are rules against generals fraternizing with privates. And there are rules against prison guards fraternizing with inmates. Those rules make sense, regardless of who initiated the affair.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)by flipping up her skirt and showeing off her thong undies. How exactly is that being taken advantage of? It seems more an offering to me.
Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)Her parents should apologize for failing to teach her some morals. She chased after married men before. Knowing he was married, why did she go after him?
question everything
(47,510 posts)and Monica brought a pizza to Clinton. On her way out, she "showed" him her tong underwear.
She was not seduced. She seduced him.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)How do we know that, thanks to the soft porn publication know as the Starr Report.
MiniMe
(21,718 posts)And She went after Bill, and she admitted it. I don't think Bill was blameless, she came on to him, not the other way around.
JI7
(89,259 posts)her before that.
she set out to be with him .
i blame him for cheating and what he did as a married man and president who had wingnuts going after him .
but i know he didn't take advantage of her.
conservaphobe
(1,284 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)how the game is played,,,,,, She will have her own weekly reality show by 2016 if Clinton runs for Prez.
MADem
(135,425 posts)And she was involved in an ENORMOUS scandal and her face was on every front page. FWIW, I think, frankly, it's ASININE to warn people about a PEOPLE MAGAZINE cover of a young woman in tacky 1980s swimwear, but we've got some people here who get agitated and personally affronted if that doesn't happen, so...there ya go.
And she's in public life, too, still. She's involved in the "anti-pornography" movement (having to do with internet safety for children, apparently). And, from all appearances, on "the other side" (I would assume that means she's a Republican!).
But I'll bet plenty couldn't name her on a bet, if shown a pic of her today, or back then.
I'll bet most people can't name "The Argentine Firecracker" either. She was a young lady who ended up in the Tidal Basin with Wilbur Mills, the aged and horny Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee (a position that some call the most powerful one in the land--first I look at the purse, after all). FWIW, her (stage) name was Fanne Foxe. She was a businesswoman, too--she made her living as a stripper and a paramour.
That's old Wilbur (No Fool Like An Old Fool) on the left. He was a gentleman, anyway-the drunkard leapt into the Tidal Basin to 'save' Ms. Foxe.
When the scandal blew, old Wilbur doubled down and resisted pressure to leave Congress--he even came on stage with her when she was working the old Pilgrim Theater in Boston!
That's old Wilbur on the left, again.
It took forever for Wilbur to be convinced to shuffle off to obscurity, but he did, and Fanne did so as well in short order (to her homeland) after writing a book.
Ms. Lewinsky has had nearly two decades to reinvent herself--it's curious that all she STILL wants to do is talk about "that." Yes, it was a tough thing to overcome, all that notoriety, but I get the sense she hasn't even tried. She went over to London where people CARE about it less, but she hasn't gone to any effort to associate herself with any sort of industry, purpose, goal, etc. She went to school for a bit and made an HBO film about ... THAT. She co-authored a book about ... THAT. She sold handbags for a bit, but it was obvious she was trading on her notorious reputation and that fizzled out when her cachet faded. Now she's back doing a photo spread and essay for Vanity Fair about ... THAT.
I think her story is one that is over. If she wants to be remembered for one thing, she's doing a "Heckuva job." She has had, and continues to have, a few years to change her reality, but that window is closing and faster than she thinks. As the years pass, options get fewer. Middle age turns into old age quick as a wink, and reinvention gets harder when you're old. She needs to get serious, or resign herself to having her one "accomplishment" chiseled on her gravestone.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Your 15 minutes are up Monica.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)And this part just sucks.
"Many older men approached me (as they do all young women) but I never saw a single politician (or anyone else for that matter) as some superior being who could make me do what I didn't want to do.
Indeed I usually responded in a way that made them avoid me big time. I simply threatened to tell everyone including media folks and their wives."
Fucking good for you. Shows a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to things young women face in this world. Shows a complete lack of knowledge with respect to the culture many women are raised in.
While you are so concerned over something someone you claim to give a shit less about said, you have truly let your slip show.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)reading all of this "sex shaming" of a woman on a progressive board.
I am not a Lewinsky fan and it's a simple fact that Clinton should have used better judgment.
Do I think he owes her or her family an apology? No.
tea and oranges
(396 posts)I will never feel anything but sympathy for the young woman who had no idea what she was getting into, was slut-shamed by almost everyone, & was betrayed by the odious Linda Tripp.
IronLionZion
(45,475 posts)since it can't be helping. Counseling and therapy might help more.
tea and oranges
(396 posts)another Clinton, I have no recommendations for her, personally. But I wish we could bring this variant of a Republican talking point to a rest!
Having no empathy for the failings of others is something I always imagined to be more a Republican thang than Democrat. But I'm not too old to be shocked.
People have inappropriate sexual relations. Even POTUS, even interns. I suggest we get over reviling one of the participants (the one who has never been able to find her way back!) in a long ago sex scandal.
OnlinePoker
(5,724 posts)She wrote an article for the May Vanity Fair. She has brought herself back into the spotlight.
tea and oranges
(396 posts)Last edited Mon Jul 7, 2014, 09:55 PM - Edit history (1)
w/o linking to anyplace disgusting like Breitbart. Sometimes we (Dems) do this, prop up the right w/o even knowing it.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/republicans-torn-over-how-to-talk-about-monica-lewinsky
[link:http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/01/monica_lewinsky_a_campaign_iss.html|
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/27/1272815/-The-hot-new-Republican-talking-point-against-Hillary-Clinton-is-Monica-Lewinsky]
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/01/monica_lewinsky_a_campaign_iss.html
Edited to remove link to Limbaugh after saying I didn't want to link too anyone repulsive, then I did. Who, after all could be more so? But still that's the kind of folks talking 'bout breathing new life into old shit.
VA_Jill
(9,990 posts)Sorry, folks. This girl figured out early that it was okay to sleep her way to the top. She was a CONSENTING ADULT and IMNSHO the kind of girl my grandma always characterized as "no better than she should be." Not that that excuses Clinton, but this goes both ways.
Go away, Monica. Your 15 minutes were up LONG ago.
clarice
(5,504 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)She's the one who should be apologizing to her parents for disgracing them. OF COURSE, Bill was equally responsible, emphasis on EQUALLY.
KinMd
(966 posts)or if she dry cleaned the blue dress
reddread
(6,896 posts)Bill put everything on the line for that skank.
including Hillary's ambitions.
THAT is the real problem.
not worth discussing?
KinMd
(966 posts)it goes under "how someone so smart , be so stupid?"
reddread
(6,896 posts)she will be dogging a certain someone
ReRe
(10,597 posts)If I were Monica, I would have gone to the other side of the earth (or Canada), grown up, and lived a normal life and never looked back.
Response to malaise (Original post)
lostincalifornia This message was self-deleted by its author.
liberal N proud
(60,339 posts)After all, if it wasn't for them, I might have completed college in 4 years and done architecture instead of engineering.
C Moon
(12,219 posts)I believe there's Koch Kash involved here.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)#1 - This is not a boss/abuse of power situation. She wanted Clinton, threw up her skirt to show him her underwear. She made all of the first moves. She was an adult and not only a consenting one to this situation, she initiated it. That is not an abuse of power issue as some are claiming.
#2 - I still feel sorry for her. She should not have been sex-shamed and subjected to any humiliation (nor should Bill, as far as I am concerned). She did not deserve that at all. Unfortunately, those responsible for it don't care and can't be touched. The only people who she can go to/after are the Clintons. I wish she wouldn't do it, but her life was for all practical intents and purposes destroyed and no one else involved cares at all for any reason.
I do not believe in sex-shaming (I wont use the other term) adults for consensual sex with other adults. There is plenty of non-consensual sex to worry about. Once we resolve that issue, we can consider going after consensual sex. I won't agree even then, but there is no point to it with all of the sexual assault issues we have.
IronLionZion
(45,475 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)and even pointed out the housing complex where they thought she lived next to theirs around 2008 when I first moved here. I won't go as far as noting the building, but it was right before the 2008 election, and I was kind of curious at the time if anyone saw any of the Clintons venture close to there during campaign season or not. I guess the Clintons were smart enough to stay away, even though Obama had a pretty huge rally in this city earlier that year not too far away.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)There was a very good Vietnamese restuarant there. Monica would go there, sit by herself and would try to be ignored.
I was tempted when visiting to chat her up. She was still a bit big, and when compared to the models that also hung out there that could take some starch out.
Until you see someone as a human it is easy to tell them what to do. I will always remember her as a prettyish girl who made a ton of enemies.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)And she got her "presidential kneepads." The question for me is what is her agenda now, and who is paying her?
BTW, did she ever apologize to Hiliary Clinton? Or to Chelsea, who was a young girl then?
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)No matter what the public is intrigued with this. I expect if Hillary doesn't run Monica will go back into her shell.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)ding ding we have a winner
Beacool
(30,250 posts)I don't condone Bill's behavior. He was older, the president and should have definitely known better. On the other hand, I have no use for women who pursue married men. Bill was not her first affair with a married guy. By her own admission she pursued him, not the other way around. Therefore, she was responsible for her actions. This was not a case of a dirty old man chasing a naïve girl and forced her to do something against her will, quite the contrary.
You play with fire, you get burned.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)rusty fender
(3,428 posts)who defended Clinton's actions in the Lewinsky affair. I wasn't one of them.
As POTUS you have ONE JOB and you have sex in the Oval Office with an intern who is half your age? You didn't have other things to do, like being POTUS? Or the fact that you are married?
Clinton's actions were shameful, and, not for one second, would 99.99% of those defending him at the time would have defended him if he had had an affair with a male intern, or if Clinton had been a Repub.
Hypocrisy, thy name is all of you who still defend Clinton in the Lewinsky affair.
malaise
(269,106 posts)This thread is about Monica Lewinsky
reddread
(6,896 posts)damn you, Ralph Nader!!1!!!!!!1!!
KinMd
(966 posts)just that it didn't rise to the level of impeachment
Skittles
(153,170 posts)that gal needs to move on and get a life
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Skittles
(153,170 posts)yes INDEED
?701
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Skittles
(153,170 posts)I didn't have to wear them much; I was mostly in dress blues
JI7
(89,259 posts)and she did make the first move so it wasn't a case of him going after her and pressuring her in any way either.
malaise
(269,106 posts)with the following question
When you were 20--22, did you show your boss your thongs?? I'm betting that the Nos will be in the high 90s
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)JI7
(89,259 posts)but he sure didn't take advantage of her.
former9thward
(32,046 posts)to a sexual harassment charge by an intern. Bill Clinton was in a extremely powerful position. It was he that started the process and the young woman should not be blamed.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Typical.
Throd
(7,208 posts)Everything else being equal.