Let me tell you about a little girl my wife is treating.

[Snake Alchemist]

Last edited Thu Apr 5, 2012, 04:50 PM - Edit history (1)

I've mentioned before that my wife is a psychologist. She mainly specializes in children, but does see some adults. One of the cases she currently is working on is a little girl (4-6 years old) who was repeatedly sexually abused by her father. So many things wrong with this poor little girl. Inappropriate boundaries and touching, etc. She'll point to a man's groin and say &quot blank) it". She'll likely need years and years of counseling due to the severity of the case. She also has a little brother (3-5 years old) who they've surmised witnessed some of the abuse and will model the behavior. He'll pull down girls pants and try to molest them, etc.

My wife has made mention that this case mirrors some of the adult women she has seen who have engaged in stripping, escort, etc. So next time you think those girls are expressing their freedom, being independent, or whatever other euphemism you want to use just remember where she likely came from.

I'm just glad my wife is there to help girls and boys like this.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. I'm glad your wife is there to help too...

And I am appalled that we need people like her in the first place.

Very sad situation.

[Snake Alchemist]

2. It's amazing what people will do to children. nt

[Lionessa]

3. HIPAA suggests you shouldn't even know this.

Even without identification, patients aren't supposed to be discussed publicly or even with family. Just saying, I take the medical privacy of patients very seriously.

Secondly behaviors are likely after such occurrences, however you are trying for an inverse relationship that simply isn't true to the 100% you're attempting to make it.

YES, those that have been sexually abused are likely to show certain social/sexual behaviors at a rate close to 100%.

NO, not all those with said social/sexual behaviors acquired them thru sexual abuse/assault, some women just love sex. I mean really if women in general loved sex as much as men and would pay for it, all men would be prostitutes just so they could have sex every time they think about it, what every 7 seconds or something, so why assume no women have a libido to rival a man's? Some women are just horny, some like the control it gives them over men, some like the money and clout (thinking higher end here), some just got hooked in because of drug abuse that may have had nothing to do with previous sexual abuse.

In a nutshell, a woman choosing to participate in lots of sex and choosing to get paid for it does NOT mean something is wrong with her.

[Snake Alchemist]

7. Yeah, I know. Technically, she shouldn't even discuss this with me.

But she needs a release and I figure we are far enough removed at this point to be sufficiently anonymous.

Where do you think the classic cliche of "daddy issues" come from?

[Lionessa]

11. No, not technically, completely. HIPAA!

And the reason is because then family who knows better, like you, then spread it all over the web.

Edited to add: If your wife and you are not up to the PRIVACY requirements of her job, perhaps she shouldn't be at such a job, or should post it clearly that she doesn't heed HIPAA.

[Snake Alchemist]

12. Thank you for your concern. I'll await the lawsuit. nt

[Lionessa]

13. For someone posting a supposedly "caring" OP, you're quite the cad

HIPAA is for a reason, regardless of lawsuits, which sounds like quite the red response to me only caring about whether it'll cost you instead of the potential harm and distress you and your wife are putting that 4 yo and all her patients should anyone chose to track you backward from this site.

"I await the lawsuit"...... f', with dems like you, ..... no wonder everything is heading so "free market" even those on "our" side measure everything in their own personal monetary cost with no ethical or regulatory considerations at all.

[Snake Alchemist]

15. Attacking my wife will bring that out of me every time. nt

[Lionessa]

17. Attack your wife, yeah, right, that causes you to think money costs?

Puleeeze, you are so squirming for a lifeline here.

[Snake Alchemist]

19. Where exactly did you get that? nt

[Lionessa]

21. Your reply to wife supposedly being attacked was, "I await the lawsuit."

[Snake Alchemist]

23. Yes. I'm not scared of one. nt

[Lionessa]

28. You have trouble following the topic, huh? Hopefully the others reading this thread

have now seen you for the person of careless ethics that you've presented yourself as being. That's my goal, as it's clear you're either foolish or intentionally obtuse at this point.

[Snake Alchemist]

32. Be sure when you file your complaint that you remember:

It's Mrs. Snake Alchemist, little girl, and little boy. And she practices in Anonymous, Anonymous.

[Lionessa]

18. Medical privacy is an ethical issue, if she and you don't have it, that's

your problem.

So which is it? Do you honor and value MEDICAL PRIVACY for all, or not.

[Snake Alchemist]

20. I'm writing a letter to my congressman to have all medical studies removed from the internet.

Even if they do not use real names.

[Lionessa]

24. Not the same, they sign waivers. Did this girl?

Also not the same when people post about friends or family, but your wife is under HIPAA obligation and is failing her ethical responsibilities and you're posting it on the internet.

Instead of continuing to try to justify your mistake, perhaps you should recognize it.

[Snake Alchemist]

27. So no doctor on DU can ever mention a patient? Feel free to file a complaint.

Please refer to Mrs. Snake Alchemist and little girl and little boy in the complaint.

[Avalux]

40. Sorry, I have to jump in here and defend Snake Alchemist.

He did not post individually identified health information, nor did he post information that could reasonably identify the patient. Before you berate someone for not following HIPAA, understand what it means.

No names, birthdates or otherwise identifiable information was given.

[Lionessa]

45. Too much, the fact that he even knows is against HIPAA.

[Snake Alchemist]

47. Not even a location.

Thanks, I thought I was being extra careful. Somehow this topic became about something very different.

[alphafemale]

49. Exactly. HIPPA is not violated if identifying info is not given.

General anonymous facts of a case are in NO way a violation.

[blue neen]

53. Uh, the correct term is HIPAA.

IMHO, the violations are occurring when medical professionals are discussing a client's case, in this amount of detail, with a spouse.

[unapatriciated]

55. Don't agree

There are enough details (like describing how the sibling is also acting out) that a parent or a family member would recognize their child should they see this post. It is one thing for his wife to discuss this at home, quite another to post it on the net.

[FedUpWithIt All]

126. I agree. I was extremely uncomfortable reading the OP.

It is not right that this little girl's experiences are being posted on a message board like this.

[yardwork]

129. The doctor should not be discussing these cases with her husband. That's a HIPAA violation.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

73. These are the specific things HIPAA considers patient identifiers:

Identifiers
This lists the identifiers specifically appearing in the HIPAA privacy regulations. The presence of any one of these identifiers renders health information individually identifiable. If none of these is a part of the information, it is not possible to identify the individual and no HIPAA violation occurs if the information is used.
HIPAA De-identification requires removal of all such identifiers as specifically defined in the regulations. It is not equivalent to the more general concept associated with the term 'anonymous.' (my emphasis)
The following identifiers of the individual or of relatives, employers, or household members of the individual the asterisk * indicates permitted in a limited data set §164.514(e)(2)):
(A) Names (unless specifically released by written permission)
(B)* All geographic subdivisions smaller than a State, including street address, city, county, precinct, zip code, and their equivalent geocodes, except for the initial three digits of a zip code if, according to the current publicly available data from the Bureau of the Census:
(1) The geographic unit formed by combining all zip codes with the same three initial digits contains more than 20,000 people; and
(2) The initial three digits of a zip code for all such geographic units containing 20,000 or fewer people is changed to 000.
[Limited dataset must exclude postal address information other than town or city, state and zip code]
(C)* All elements of dates (except year) for dates directly related to an individual, including birth date, admission date, discharge date, date of death; and all ages over 89 and all elements of dates (including year) indicative of such age, except that such ages and elements may be aggregated into a single category of age 90 or older;
(D) Telephone numbers
(E) Fax numbers
(F) Electronic mail addresses
(G) Social security numbers
(H) Medical record numbers
(I) Health plan beneficiary numbers
(J) Account numbers
(K) Certificate/license numbers
(L) Vehicle identifiers and serial numbers, including license plate numbers
(M) Device identifiers and serial numbers
(N) Web Universal Resource Locators (URLs)
(O) Internet Protocol (IP) address numbers
(P) Biometric identifiers, including finger and voice prints
(Q) Full face photographic images and any comparable images (unless written permission obtained)
(R)* Any other unique identifying number, characteristic, or code, except as permitted by paragraph (c) of this section; If the algorithm for creating a "code" is disclosed to the recipient of the information, then the code is considered a unique identifier. The code is also considered a unique identifier if it is generated from any of the identifiers, or pieces of the identifiers, listed above.

http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/answer-hipaa-violation-693686.html

[laundry_queen]

81. +1

I'm pretty sure we've been over this shit here before.

[alphafemale]

190. Exactly. There was no violatition in the OP. Period. nt

[leftynyc]

147. You're talking about us

She had no business telling her husband either. He may very well know who she was speaking about.

[Bolo Boffin]

199. You don't know that.

For all you know, the only one that might be applicable is the zip code if, if, the wife told the husband what town the kids are from.

But we don't know that even that happened. For all you know, the wife could be in full compliance with HIPAA disclosure. You're right to be concerned for the patient, but you need actual evidence a HIPAA violation has occured before you can be so categorical in your ire.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

204. How rude

[demmiblue]

26. People who participate in medical studies give their written consent. n/t

[Snake Alchemist]

29. I've had doctor friends tell me that one of their patients had been diagnosed with cancer that day

and they were having a hard time with it. I immediately contacted the AMA.

[demmiblue]

34. I was specifically responding to your post regarding medical studies. n/t

[MrMickeysMom]

111. ...

[Luminous Animal]

33. It's amazing that this person can't seem to understand this very simple

concept.

[Snake Alchemist]

39. Please show me the guidelines for anonymous patient in anonymous location with anonymous provider.

Thanks!

[blue neen]

22. IMHO, that's it a bit of a stretch to say that mentioning HIPAA laws is an attack.

Privacy laws are essential, especially in cases like this, and are the law of the land.

Your wife is doing important and admirable work. If you feel she is being attacked, it's because you chose to post this story of someone's personal life.

[Snake Alchemist]

25. Is every medical study that omits patients names a violation of HIPAA? nt

[blue neen]

36. Since you did not make your OP about a medical study, we won't have that discussion.

If you would like to know HIPAA laws, there is a wealth of information that is very easy to find.

Google is your friend.

[Snake Alchemist]

38. I typed in anonymous patient in anonymous location with anonymous provider and could not find

anything.

[blue neen]

41. You don't know the meaning of medical studies or HIPAA and can't find the definitions.

Yet, you "await the lawsuit." Good luck.

[Snake Alchemist]

42. Please point me to said guidelines. nt

[demmiblue]

44. You should ask your imaginary wife. n/t

[Snake Alchemist]

50. That all you got? ROFL.

[demmiblue]

52. That is all I need. ROFL.

[Snake Alchemist]

54. I wear this ring for the chicks.

[HangOnKids]

57. Nose Rings Don't Count Snake n/t

[Snake Alchemist]

58. I tried to convince her that it would be enough.

Extra points if you can guess the material my ring is made of.

[demmiblue]

61. Oh shite! Now I know why your name is familiar.

Gross.

[Art_from_Ark]

101. Snake Alchemist = Orochimaru

The "Darth Vader" of anime/manga:

http://bigbang1414.deviantart.com/art/the-snake-alchemist-278268198

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orochimaru_(Naruto)

[Snake Alchemist]

157. Does he have a son named Lukemaru? nt

[HangOnKids]

56. BAM

Well done.

[blue neen]

46. I have confidence that you can find them.

It depends on how motivated you are.

[Snake Alchemist]

48. Since you brought them up, please feel free to back it up. nt

[blue neen]

59. In fact, I'm not the person who brought them up on this thread.

Instead of spending your time typing replies, you could be doing your research.

I've already looked them up, many times. It's always good to refresh one's memory about privacy laws.

It's also good to learn about the laws in the first place, so I don't want to make it too easy for you.

Many DU'ers had to get the HIPAA certifications all on their own. You can do the same, I just know it!

Good luck and have fun!

[Snake Alchemist]

62. So you can't find them? Good to know. Thanks! nt

[blue neen]

64. You couldn't be more wrong.

Well, actually, maybe you could be.

[Snake Alchemist]

68. Cards on the table. nt

[blue neen]

71. Royal Flush.

.

[Snake Alchemist]

72. This is blackjack. Thanks for playing.

Next time be able to at least provide a link.

[caseymoz]

140. There's no such thing as anonymity on the web.

Anyone curious enough can find out who you are, who your wife is, and it wouldn't be much more to find out who her patients might be.

You're really doing nobody a service by bringing this into an informal discussion.

[Snake Alchemist]

141. Go for it. Let me know what you find. nt

[caseymoz]

152. Anyone curious. I don't really want to know you. nt

[Rex]

174. Not true and I challenge anyone to try.

People believe too much of what they see on TVEE imo. 'Anyone curious' most certainly CAN NOT find out that information. It is not that simple.

[caseymoz]

177. Not TV

I'm too busy and not pissed off enough to find out how to do it myself. Plus, I don't want to possibly end up in prison for doing it. But I can direct you to youtube wars where people's docs were dropped. And the people who dropped them were not, IMHO, the brightest nodes on the web. They were just malicious enough and paranoid enough that the knew somebody who knew how. Or perhaps learned how long before simply because they were malicious and paranoid long-term.

If you want to know, doc-drops are a rather common thing for atheists on youtube.

[caseymoz]

143. Medical studies have procedures in place

. . . to protect anonymity and privacy. They have institutions behind them that also must follow procedures.

You, on the other hand, are just some dude with an important wife and a big mouth.

[Snake Alchemist]

144. As you pointed out, anyone can find out anything once it's on the the web.

Or are you having second thought about that?

[caseymoz]

154. No, that's not what I said.

Which shows you're careless with your facts, even when they're under your nose. So, I tend to favor my second theory that you made the whole damn thing up or exaggerated it "for effect." And that's also supported by your doubling-down on irresponsibility. And I don't think you meant well with your original post.

We're done.

[Snake Alchemist]

158. Let's go to the tape!

caseymoz (3,513 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
140.

"There's no such thing as anonymity on the web."



Anyone curious enough can find out who you are,

[caseymoz]

175. Where do you see the words

Anybody can find out?

[Snake Alchemist]

176. These don't count?

"Anyone curious enough can find out who you are"

[caseymoz]

181. No. I said "anyone who's curious enough."

I qualified that deliberately. So it's not just "anybody," as you said. It might take four hours, or it might take 2000. It depends on how brightly somebody's curiosity burns or how pissed off they are, their level of expertise to start, who they know to start with, if they make good guesses, and if they want to use other resources beside the web doing it. (They will if they're truly curious.) And of course, the amount of time is affected by whether they want to risk prison doing it.

Measures taken to protect privacy also matter, but your OP did not indicate someone who had that concern-- at least not about other people's.

[Snake Alchemist]

194. A distinction without a difference. nt

[caseymoz]

198. You know that claim is wrong.

Or, if you generally miss or willfully disregard qualifiers like that when you read and think, then it's more evidence that nothing you say is reliable. Therefore, it doesn't matter if you're well meaning or not.

Go ahead, dig in your heels and pump more shots into your foot.

I don't want to say anymore. If I do, this will just deteriorate into flames. I consider what you've done here to be dishonorable. Anything else I say will be saturated in that judgment.

Now, goodbye. I'm putting you on ignore until this thread blows away.

[unapatriciated]

35. I agree with Lionessa

and your snark about awaiting a lawsuit is uncalled for.
Your wife should be disusing her patients with fellow mental health practitioners only, not you.
That is one of the reasons people do not get the mental health help they need. They fear those that they entrust with their problems will not keep it confidential. Your op illustrates that point.

[Snake Alchemist]

37. I'll let you in on a secret. Doctors and nurses also discuss their patients with their spouses.

My wife never tells me the names though.

[unapatriciated]

51. I will let you in on a secret.

Last edited Thu Apr 5, 2012, 06:03 PM - Edit history (1)

We know and do not like it.
I spent years with my son in and out of Children's LA so I understand that some not all do this.
It is one thing to discuss this with you at home (still against HIPAA rules) it is quite different to post the story on line.
I discuss my son's illness but did not do so until I had asked his permission first. Does your wife know you posted this?
There are enough details in your story that if the parents or a family member saw your post they would recognize their child.
Sorry but that is an invasion of their privacy.

[MrMickeysMom]

112. Bull fucking shit...

It doesn't invade a privacy because there is not an identified person.

You actually think there are enough details in the story so the parents/family could identify????

You know, I saw someone toss a cigarette butt out of a winder today traveling in broad daylight as they blew past a stop sign.

Okay... You want to predict who the sick parent was that tortured their kids with sodomy?

What nonsense you're using as logic.

[unapatriciated]

200. I was responding to knowing that some medical personnel....

discuss their patients with their family and friends. He thought this was such a snark to-wards me, I'm just too naive to understand that this is done everyday. Sorry I have a problem with my doctor discussing me or a family member with his friends and family. Don't care if they use identifiers or not. It is an invasion of privacy, it is that simple.


I spent over ten years with my son in and out of Children's LA (1991-2001) and met many families there. We knew that some medical personnel discussed our children and their cases with no-medical personnel (their friends and family). I can tell you that none of the parents I knew (including myself) liked it when it happened. Sometimes it does get back to the patients or families involved. That is why I have a problem with him openly stating (and posting on the net) his wife discusses her patients with him. If someone wanted to, they could probably figure out who the op and his wife are. I don't expect mine or my family's medical cases to be discussed at my doctor's dinner table. Let alone posted on a political website without my permission

Yes what happened to that little girl was horrendous. That doesn't make it right to post her story on the net, without permission with or without identifiers.

There are plenty of case studies (were permission has been given) he could have used to make his point.

[MrMickeysMom]

202. It was a snark towards the person you responded to...

Unless your medical experience and radius of contacts in every day life were a hand full of people, I do not understand HOW you would know that your son's case was being discussed unless he WAS identified as your son (same with families you mentioned).

He didn't post HER story on the internet and you know it. You just read something that struck a nerve. I'm sorry that this made you react this way, but NOTHING that was posted gave away who this little girl was. It simply was an awful story and one more person who had to work with an awful situation, which needs understanding, not scorn.

[unapatriciated]

205. We are talking in circles.

What struck a nerve was him posting on the net that his wife discussed her patients with him, sorry if you don't feel that is wrong. A persons wants to think that a doctor or anyone else in the medical field would keep their patients confidence. I know some don't but that doesn't make it right.

You can call BS all you want but he did make the above statement regarding his wife's patients. He went on to give details on one case such as:
age within a couple of years
sex of the child
describe one of the acts the adult did to the child (anyone can see edits)
siblings sex, age and how they are acting out regarding the abuse.

All you and others saw was the awful story about child abuse. Something we all care about and want more done to stop it.

What I saw was a person telling the world his wife talks to him about her patients. In my mind he broke two confidences, one to his wife and the other to her patients. When I pointed this out, he belittled me and basically made fun of how I feel. Some of us who have spent a life time with doctors and in and around hospitals due to long term illnesses, would like to think our very personal medical cases are private. It should be our choice on rather or not to tell our story. We know that there are medical professionals who do not respect this, still doesn't make it right.

[MrMickeysMom]

207. "We" are having a disagreement...

... and "You" are justifying why you could belittle someone else, while ignoring that you did the same, or worse to the OP. It's measured by what's above your shoulders, which was bad judgement.

The circle on this subject ends here with me, so I suggest moving on.

[dionysus]

30. aren't you a peach.

[redqueen]

60. Well it successfully derailed the thread

so mission accounlmplished I guess.

Edit to add: by "it" I am referring to the hipaa side issue. Not the poster. Don't want to be alerted on due to misunderstanding.

[Snake Alchemist]

63. I guess that was the intention all along. nt

[blue neen]

65. Since that poster was not the only one who mentioned it, I'd say...

Nope.

[Snake Alchemist]

66. Plenty do not want to confront the connection between women's abuse and the sex industry. nt

[seabeyond]

74. +1. nt

[blue neen]

78. Yes, and many of the posters on this thread are not those people.

I'm pretty sure you know that.

[seabeyond]

84. no. i do not know that.

when i hear a poster seriously arguing that women do 20 bjs a night to survive because they REALLY love sex, i do not take that poster seriously. seriously.

[blue neen]

86. Well, then maybe you could take the time to check out some of the posters' previous posts.

Please, I'm sure you do not intend to turn people away from a serious subject by generalizing about everyone in the thread.

There are many, many of us who have NEVER posted such a thing.

Peace.

[seabeyond]

90. i think when addressing this issue, there is so much of reality ignored

to justify a position.

personally, i do not have a huge toe in this argument of prostitution or strippers. i do know the reality of it though. and am a proponent of honest reality of the situations. i dont like to pretend.

[unapatriciated]

75. I have no problem with the issue you raise.

They are many case studies you could of used.
I have a problem with you discussing one of your wife's patients on the net.
Hell, when my my husband's dentist office calls they refuse to discuss his bill or anything else with me and that is less sensitive than the case you posted.

[Snake Alchemist]

76. Please refer to Veleveteen Ocelot's post above. nt

[redqueen]

70. Of course.

What gives it away is the lack of any suggestion as to how we could continue the discussion without violating someone's rights by making whatever necessary changes to the OP.

No, clearly the rampant sexual abuse and exploitation is not worth discussing.

What is worth spending time on is snark and.point scoring.

[unapatriciated]

79. It has been suggested.

Their are plenty of case studies that show correlation to this issue that could have been used.
Sorry, it's bad enough that he posted that his wife discusses her patients with him, let alone post details regarding a patient.
He used details such as how the sibling is acting out and their age and yes 3 to 5 years of age is pretty detailed.
If this were my child I would be very upset that she was being discussed on a political website.

[Snake Alchemist]

80. Please refer to Veleveteen Ocelot's post above. nt

[MrMickeysMom]

110. Oh, bullshit...

You are misunderstanding HIPAA with this story. Plus, you are so unrealistic in what people in health care have to deal with, you can't possibly understand this situation.

In fact, it's quite acceptable talking about anything that does NOT have a direct identifier. For example, "Dear, I feel so heart-broken with one of my cases... "

This sharing of information breaks nothing under HIPAA. The minute you start spilling public knowledge that can be identified to the privacy of an individual's medical records... THEN you are violating HIPAA.

Anything that describes a clinical situation can be published in a journal so that its readers can gain the same knowledge. And, if there is a way to discuss it scientifically, it's called peer review.

The child is most likely in good hands, and I appreciate the discussion of reality, because BELIEVE YOU ME... there are many, many people who interface with this stuff who need to talk about it.

[mzmolly]

119. Hippa is

designed to protect privacy. The family in question remains anonymous.

[Fawke Em]

201. My company specializes in testing IT systems against HIPAA compliance

and he did NOT violate HIPAA. He didn't tell where the girl lives, what her name is or any other identifiable information about the girl other than a vague age range - there are literally thousands of girls between the ages of 4 and 6 - I have one. He also didn't ID the girl by race, hair color, eye color or anything else - other than she is a little girl.

If you couldn't do that under HIPAA, there would be no releasable information regarding health studies.

FWIW, I also think you're wrong about why adult women participate in acts that many consider sexually unreasonable. Women are programmed from an early age that they MUST do certain things to gain the attention of men - and this programming in not relegated to only violent sexual abuse. You can see it on television everyday.

[JonLP24]

209. I don't know what is a violation or what isn't

when it comes to the "gray" area but OP had more information before the edit(which wouldn't matter I imagine since it is accessible to anyone), one age listed for girl, mentioned that she has a brother and the brother's age & a detail of a behavior. I'm not saying that there is a violation, just more information that just sex and an age range. Also I was wondering even though he didn't post where she lives, what if he(or anyone w/ a similar post) made mention of where they lived or some hints (like mentioning who your congressman is) would that be a violation? I know where you live isn't always where your spouse works and sometimes a spouse could live & work on another continent.

Anyways regardless would the OP be in violation anyways? I always thought of it to apply to medical staff, what if someone told me about a family member and I told someone else? Would I be in violation? Whenever I'm in the hospital I actually won't allow them to say anything at all to any family member because there is always the possibility they could tell someone else I don't want them to tell for whatever reason. I wouldn't be mad at the family member because I'm under the impression they are not bound by strict privacy guidelines that people in that area because they receive training and require patients to sign waivers or give some kind of permission when friends or families likely wouldn't be familiar at all with those type of things.

If anyone, I imagine the wife would be in violation here, depending on what she said, which I imagine has more details.

[caseymoz]

182. I'm glad you brought that up.

If you control for the monthly cycle and the lower rate of reaching orgasm, women desire sex as much men.

However, both sexes also vary about equally in the libido spectrum. I'm convinced this debate isn't between women and men. Many men want to suppress the sex industry as well. This is between people with low libidos and uncommon orgasm pitted against those with high libidos. The two live in completely different worlds, see two completely different things in porn, and have different meanings for the same terms.

Let's say the contention that sex workers are actually acting out a psychological symptoms that causes them to want to strip, have meaningless sex, get kinky, and/or demean themselves and, in effect, get abused. If then you effectively suppress the sex industry, you can then expect them to be doing all those things anyway-- for free. Why? You haven't "cured" them. The illness would still be there.

You can't correlate behavior in a child to behavior in an adult. Not sexually, not in any way. That's been debunked in other things, and it would hold even truer in sex.

[eridani]

197. If they have their heads on straight, is the OP's wife likely to see them in the first place?

I don't think so.

[JDPriestly]

4. During the prenatal period, parents should be strongly encouraged

to attend a couple of sessions on parenting. Nothing obtrusive, just the standard education.

They should learn what is violence. A lot of them do not realize it when they are seriously harming their child. A little discussion about readiness for school, about protecting a child from sexual predators -- especially from sexual predators who are friends of members of the family.

Churches, schools, civic clubs -- would all be good places to offer this. .

We think we know it all and don't need training. But you would be very surprised to learn just whose children suffer from abuse of various kinds.

The dependency courts where they decide to place abused or neglected children in foster homes are full of poor kids from poor or middle-class families. But children everywhere in all kinds of families may be unlucky enough to suffer from abuse and/or neglect.

And when a stranger abuses a child, the parents may not even know or if they find out, may not know what to do or may be afraid to contacts someone.

This is a bigger problem in our country than is generally acknowledged.

Thanks for posting this.

[Snake Alchemist]

8. Wow, great suggestion. nt

[JDPriestly]

189. When I lived in a small town in a European country and had single-payer,

the town's pediatrician called all the pregnant moms due over a certain period of several months to a meeting and gave us tips. She warned, for example, that our babies would be born in September so it might be smart to hold them back a year of school so that they would not be the youngest in their class. I did that, and my child had a huge advantage in her early education. Later, she skipped a class and joined the older children in her general age range.

That was not an issue of child abuse, but putting a child in school before the child is mature enough to handle the stress and demands can place the child's whole life, not just his academic career, in jeopardy.

Little bits of information and advice like that -- so simple -- can make a big difference.

In general, I think that American parents push their children pretty hard.

[redqueen]

5. Its sad how long it lingers, and how it manifests.

Jenna Jameson was asked by Howard Stern about abuse, and she lied, not wanting to seem like a victim.

I hate that we've stigmatized the very idea of having been hurt.

[Snake Alchemist]

9. I had forgotten about that. nt

[nenagh]

6. So difficult even to read about those young abused children..

Thank heavens for the counseling your wife can give them.

We can read about sexual abuse as I follow the Sandusky case... But to think of little children, so very young and so damaged by their father...

And for your wife's continuing help for the little girl and/ or her brother.

[Snake Alchemist]

10. She is something else. nt

[Arugula Latte]

14. I've read that the vast, vast majority of strippers come from abuse backgrounds.

And I would also guess that the percentage of U.S. females who have been harassed verbally and/or groped by strangers is probably 99 percent.

[Snake Alchemist]

16. When I was in Japan they had train cars that were women-only due to gropers. nt

[redqueen]

31. Sexual harrassment starts in elementary school.

Adults are acting as if their desires are the most important thing in the world, and that children are simply fated to swim in the polluted waters created by the selfish adults. It is sick.

[LadyHawkAZ]

67. Here's a fantastic idea:

How about you just post her name? That way,when she becomes an adult, everyone will know that she's an abuse victim and not to be looked at, touched or slept with! Wouldn't that be a big help! Save everyone some time and effort.

In fact, you could get together with other spouses of therapists with the same disdain for patient privacy and start a website. With a database. It will help ensure that the victims stay properly victims for the rest of their life. Make sure they understand that they gave up all rights to their sexuality when they were abused, and are now ruined goods.

Do I need the sarcasm smiley?

Of course it would never occur to you that being in situations where they can control their sexual excounters, like stripping, might BE an expression of freedom and independence for them. Because that would not be appropriate ruined goods behavior, would it?


Jesus H Christ, dude. This entire post is just horrible on every possible level. Here's some free advice; when your spouse tells you something confidential, see to it that it stays that way.

[Snake Alchemist]

69. Somehow it's always an "expression of freedom" when a man is the one benefitting. nt

[LadyHawkAZ]

77. I'm not a man.

The fact that a man may or may not benefit is an irrelevant side effect of benefit to the worker.

And what part of what I said about controlled encounters and expression of freedom and independence was unclear to you?

[ceile]

163. +1.

Said it better than I could. This OP is wrong on many levels.

[sudopod]

82. Of all the things for people to get mad at you about...

lol.

For your comfort, it might be nice to know that there seems to be a consensus that you are correct with respect to HIPAA:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=hipaa+talking+about+patients

I wouldn't dare try to interpret the law myself, but the majority of internet health professionals polled by google seem to agree with you on this.

[Snake Alchemist]

83. Thanks. Weird contingent that rolled in here that seem to advocate Super HIPAA.

Or maybe Voldemort HIPAA.

[blue neen]

85. Seven Tips to Avoid HIPAA Violations in Social Media:

"There have been a couple of widely-publicized cases recently of physicians divulging patient information in social media. I’m sure the doctors involved did not intend to violate patient privacy."

"While there are several excellent guidelines and policies on this topic, there isn’t a whole lot of practical advice, so here are my tips to help you avoid privacy violations (I hope this is the beginning of a conversation that will encourage more doctors to participate in social media)."

"1. Don’t talk about patients, even in general terms. It’s so difficult to anonymize patients, it’s not worth your time to attempt it."

<snip>

"But this could also identify your patient: “We had a fifty-year-old male in the ER last night with alcohol-induced liver disease.” (Somebody’s going to say “Really? In Boston? Hey—where was Dave last night? He’s fifty. Oh—I feel sorry for the kids.”)"

"And so could this: “Had a patient in the ER last night with alcohol-induced liver disease.” It takes only a couple of clues for the sleuths and wags to piece something together. As little as time frame OR geography, coupled with condition, could be enough."

"2. Do talk about conditions, treatments, research. You can write about conditions, treatment options, research, or other topics in general terms."

<snip>

"3. Don’t be anonymous. This has always been a warning sign in social media—even before Facebook and Twitter when we were using listserves and bulletin boards. Anonymity breds bad behavior. It encourages you to say things you shouldn’t. If you’re not familiar with the case of Dr. Flea, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to Google it."

"4. If you wouldn’t say it in the elevator, don’t put it online. This is a famous test, probably repeated by compliance departments and trainers at hospitals all over the US. If you wouldn’t say it in the elevator, don’t put it online. You can try speaking your post out loud before hitting the enter key. Take particular care when replying to people in real-time venues like Twitter. You don’t have to respond right away and if you have any doubt at all, ask a friend or colleague for their reaction before you post."

"5. Check the tone of your social media presence. Watch the tone of your posts/tweets: if you’re using social media to vent about work, you should pause and evaluate–too much complaining could be an early warning sign of trouble. Unfortunately, humor can be another warning sign. Any time you write something you think is funny, ask a friend to have a look before you post."

"6. Don’t mix your personal and professional lives. Use separate accounts for your personal and professional lives. Don’t friend patients on Facebook, check your privacy settings monthly (they change from time to time) and assume that anything you put online could become public. If you want to have a professional presence on Facebook, create a page apart from your personal account."

Read more at: http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/06/7-tips-avoid-hipaa-violations-social-media.html

I see that you have edited the Original Post.

[Snake Alchemist]

87. Please refer to Veleveteen Ocelot's post above. nt

[blue neen]

88. I'm already aware of those rules. Thank you.

Post #73 is a very small portion of what is included in the entire Accountability and Portability Act.

HIPAA laws are very open to interpretation in courts of law, particularly when it comes to codes of ethics.

[Snake Alchemist]

89. Seems fairly specific and well laid out. nt

[blue neen]

91. Maybe you could help your wife by taking the HIPAA Certification Course.

For instance, many psychologists belong to organizations such as the APA, who have their own Codes of Ethics and Conduct to help guide their members.

That's why such a thing as "7 Tips to Avoid HIPAA Violations in Social Media" exists. It helps to provide guidance for health care professionals so they can avoid paying fines or having their licenses suspended.

I sincerely wish you good luck with that course. It requires some study time, but you'll do fine.

[Snake Alchemist]

92. Think I'll go with the actual guidelines. You can feel free to list the ones I am violating.

They are lettered for easy identification.

http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/answer-hipaa-violation-693686.html

[blue neen]

93. Uh, the HIPAA certification course tests you on the "Actual Guidelines".

It is a requirement for most healthcare professionals, but you already knew that. It would really be your wife who would be in violation, but you already knew that, too.

Good luck with your studies.

Thanks, and...

Peace.

[Snake Alchemist]

94. You've been given the specific list. Lettered and delineated. And you can't name a single one.

Just call it a day. I hold no grudges.

[PassingFair]

131. Game. Set. Match....to Snake Alchemist. n/t

[blue neen]

132. Protecting abuse victims is not a game.

Sorry to hear that you feel that way about such a serious subject.

[JackBeck]

95. Edit history is still accessible, with identifiable information.

DU has this poster's IP address, and even though they don't list their location in their profile, the admin have access to this information, which would violate HIPAA.

The OP can argue six ways to Sunday why they feel justified in posting this in a public setting, but ultimately, HIPAA arguments aside, it was completely unethical.

[Snake Alchemist]

97. Assuming I'm posting from where my wife practices. And assuming the original information I gave was

accurate which it's likely off by a year or two. I may have even reversed the ages of the boy and girl. Sorry, Voldemort HIPAA has not yet been enacted.

It's amazing to me the contortions that people will go through to avoid or rather PREVENT the realization that abused women feed the sex industry.

[JackBeck]

98. It's also amazing the contortions you will go through to avoid your unethical behavior.

And your inability to learn from this situation is frustrating, to say the least.

I provide services to many individuals who are survivors of sexual trauma, survival sex, substance use/abuse, and many others that engage in risky behaviors (notice how I never gave any identifiable characteristics?) and one of the first things that was drilled into our heads was confidentiality was to be respected at all times.

Unfortunately, your OP does not respect that cardinal rule.

[Snake Alchemist]

103. also a tip

Proxy, it's the only way to fly.

The specifics on this are all off purposely.

[JackBeck]

106. How convenient for you that you are now using a proxy to hide your personal info.

I'm sure the admins and MIRT will be interested that someone who joined less than 4 months ago is using a proxy.

Regardless, your OP is completely unethical.

[Snake Alchemist]

114. no proxy today. I'm in Manhattan, my birth place,

Visiting a friend who's melanoma is in the end stages. He's up here for Sloan Kettering to talk about some last ditch things. Been on the business, phone all day. I don't live in a Manhattan anymore though.

I never thought my anonymity would be an issue.

[redqueen]

105. I once found it amazing, too.

The more you learn about this stuff, the less surprised you are by the efforts some people go to to distract themselves and others.

[JackBeck]

108. Some of us are able to fight for social justice while respecting confidentiality.

Internet anonymity has lead to many people feeling free to share a client's personal information, regardless of respecting their consent.

It's not a distraction if someone did not give permission to share their personal journey, especially if they are children.

[redqueen]

109. HIPAA was not violated. This has been a fairly shameful display of derailing. nt

[blue neen]

113. Victims of abuse will not feel comfortable coming forward if they cannot trust their therapists.

If any victim feels that their counselors' will tell the victims' personal histories (in detail) to family, friends, or the worldwide web, they will not talk.

Treatment for those who are abused must incorporate safeguarding their privacy along with the rest of their therapies.

Pointing that out is part of protecting them, so it is indeed a very important part of the discussion.

As an advocate, I'm sure you realize that.

[JackBeck]

115. It adds to the stigma and discrimination that most survivors feel.

So much care and planning goes into developing a relationship built on trust. I would certainly feel violated if someone so carelessly felt free to divulge my personal story on the internet without my consent.

[blue neen]

118. Absolutely. That includes the primary survivors and the secondary survivors.

It takes the whole team working and healing together...and respect and trust are very important components in that healing.

[redqueen]

116. As a victim... former victim? Whatever...

I know it's not fashionable to use that term about oneself, but I don't really give a fuck at this point... as long as my name isn't mentioned and no significant detail is shared, I would rather the information be shared if it helps people wake the hell up about this shit.

That's kind of the point behind stuff like this
http://projectunbreakable.tumblr.com

Which shouldn't even be fucking necessary, but here we are. Still.

[JackBeck]

117. The child mentioned in the OP didn't give any consent for her story to be shared. (nt)

[redqueen]

121. Didn't have to. HIPAA was not violated.

You don't know if it was a girl, if she had a brother, how old she was, or anything else about her.

I'm sure if you respond, it will be about the red herring, and not the subject of the fucking OP. As for me, I'm out of this sickening trainwreck of a thread.

[blue neen]

120. That personal disclosure would be your choice, but it's not everyone's.

A child certainly would not be in a position to make that decision.

We have to respect every survivor's personal journey.

[redqueen]

122. So not surprising. nt

[blue neen]

127. So not necessary.

nt

[caseymoz]

151. What it the parents are on this board, too and they read this?

It would make their skin crawl. Then word gets around that psychologists treating molested children can't be trusted. What would that do for getting injured children treatment?

Even if its found that there are technically no HIPAA violations (though the Feds will look into it) psychological profession would look very dimly on this. They know its bad the children being treated, and secondarily, bad for their profession.

[redqueen]

160. This is so common there could be a dozen people who think it applies to them.

FFS.

I need to stay out of this triggering bullshit.

It's great everyone has something besides the actual fucking ISSUE to distract people with.

[caseymoz]

168. How much is there to be said?

No matter how many salacious details you read, no matter what damage the child shows, everybody's going to agree that children shouldn't be raped. They'll agree children should be protected from it. They'll agree people who do it should be imprisoned and punished. They'll agree that children who had this happen should get treatment. Men will say this, women will say this, and the only ones who don't mean it are the molesters.

So, what does this add to the conversation? More than that, what do you want to say that adds to it?

I mean maybe it got off topic partially because there's not very much to say on the topic. If there is, by all means say it.

[NCTraveler]

178. "This is so common there could be a dozen people who think it applies to them."

So with that being said, a dozen parents could now be reading this and thinking, "Is this about my life". That would be a real trust builder.

[redqueen]

180. I like to think most of us would be glad the issue is being discussed...

instead of worrying if maybe someone knows about our secrets, despite not even having the faintest idea who it's about.

Or wait, no... we'd be glad that someone at least attempted to discuss the issue.

Obviously most people are deeply invested in making sure that doesn't happen ever, no matter what ridiculous lengths they need to go to to make sure that doesn't happen. (Conflating the opposition to abuse and exploitation with being anti-sex, ranting about non-existent HIPAA violations, etc.)

[NCTraveler]

184. Thank you for your reply....

and I don't necessarily disagree. I just think it is a discussion that could have been started in a manner that would not have allowed the derailment. Many people are fearful to open up to doctors and some of them have good reasons for it. I think that many, not all, believe that if the op is willing to put this here then their discussions of his wifes patients go well beyond this discussion board.

You could not be more correct: "most of us would be glad the issue is being discussed."
There are many ways to start that discussion.
I enjoy your posts. If my first post came off as confrontational that was not its intent.

[caseymoz]

192. If you're so anxious for discussion of the issue . . .

. . . at your request I'll start a thread discussing this issue without the rest of this bullshit the OP brought into it. Yes, there will be nothing to distract from the issue.

I'll make sure it happens, and I'll probably do it anyway, should I get an extra couple hours over the next few days, or failing that, an afternoon over the week.

If you want, I'll even try to post about it frequently.

I suspect, though, that my doing it would not make you happy. I'd like to believe I'm wrong about that, but I'm suspicious that it's the results of the discussion, not the lack of discussion, that discourages you.

[LadyHawkAZ]

107. No one's arguing with the fact that there are

abused women in the sex industry. What we ARE arguing with- vehemently- is that childhood abuse makes them worthless, ruined adults who must do as you tell them for the rest of their lives to pay for it.

There are abused women getting married and having children- prior abuse raises the probability of being in an abusive relationship, of being an abusive parent. I assume you're also going to tell them when they can have sex, when they can get married, when they can get pregnant, how to raise their child? To every woman who was abused as a child? Because if not, your argument is both selective and invalid.

Also, your blabbing about a violation of doctor-patient rules on the Internet- still not cool in any way, shape or form.

[woo me with science]

123. Thank you.

How absolutely outrageous that anyone would use a woman's history of having had control of her own body stripped away as a child in order to deny her competence to control her own body as an adult.



And, yes, I would be extremely angry if I had a therapist who shared my case with her family members.

[LadyHawkAZ]

125. I would be more than angry

Were I to run across a post like this about my daughter, I would not only fire her, I would sue.

[PassingFair]

134. Right. Because this is an ethical issue, posting anonymous information on discussion board.

Much more easily rallied against than the non-ethical issues of a woman
displaying her lady parts to strangers for money.


But carry on!

[LadyHawkAZ]

170. Amazingly,

both controlling women's sexuality and posting their personal medical information online are violations of their rights. Equally amazing on a progressive forum is that so many people are only upset about not being allowed to control or jail women, and are giving a pass on the medical information. Totally ass-backwards, but whatever...

[Catherine Vincent]

96. :(

Reading this just breaks my heart.

[w8liftinglady]

99. Hug your wife for me.I'm a nurse.Absolve thyself from guilt,my child

You did not violate HIPPA.I also do risk management and quality review.

Your wife is brave.I admire her.make sure she knows that.

[blue neen]

100. The act is known as HIPAA. I guess you just made a typo.

It happens to everybody.

[w8liftinglady]

102. um,yeah,,,I DO have brain damage,after all

...
And I deal with this hipaa crap every time I have anyone visit,make rounds on ask questions about or transfer any of my patients.
I also deal with it every time I am a patient.
I also deal with it on every chart I review for risk management issues.
...and if I tell you I cared for a woman who lost her baby,and then died herself...I am not violating HIPAA.
...and if I tell you I held a man's hand while he died from AIDS,because everyone else was afraid to,THAT is not violating HIPAA.

But it makes me feel better,just as I'm sure it helps her decompress.

[blue neen]

104. Thanks to this law the people you're caring for no longer have their names published in newspapers.

That used to be standard practice anytime a person was admitted to the hospital--their names were published in local newspapers.

They had lists for each local hospital, the patients' names, the day they were admitted, etc.

Thank heavens your patients' sensitive privacy is no longer up for daily perusal. It made their personal miseries all the more challenging...and their families' also.

[Snake Alchemist]

130. Don't worry. I hug her enough for everyone on DU and beyond.

She's a lot braver than me .

[KT2000]

128. Chris Hedges has written about this

He is puzzled by the support the left gives to the industry where adult women are working in such jobs because of their often common backgrounds as this little girl. He followed "the route" many women take as they age through the industry. It is beyond sad. The truth is they never found themselves as children and it is downhill - lots of abuse and humiliation. It really is tragic.

[Snake Alchemist]

136. I'll have to look for his writings on the topic.

Thanks for bringing it up.

[caseymoz]

171. So, will you bar adults from working there?

Last edited Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:34 PM - Edit history (1)

And if you're going to disallow them from making choices about where they work; are you going to make all their sexual decisions for them? If you think their joining the sex industry is bad, there are apparently other disagreeable sex acts they do out of your sight. Probably some more scandalous than the sex industry.

And then why not manage their money, since it's a commercial decision, too? And make every other decision for them because you disagree with their choices, and they were molested, so as adults, not competent. You might as well do that, since sex and reproduction are about the most personal decision they have, and you're making it for them. Do you see how that's oppressive? Do you see how that's insulting.

They're adults. Are you going to make molested people children all their lives because they make decisions that are disagreeable to you? How moral is that?

There is an alternative. Cure them. If it's a symptom, then with psychologists now treating molested children in such numbers, higher than it has been in the past, the number of adults going into the sex industry should be dropping. I don't think it's going to. Even if psychology were a reliable science, I don't think it would.

[KT2000]

183. What I wrote

does not correspond to your reply. You asked a question and then replied as if I had answered a certain way. What I wrote was about what Hedges discovered in his work. Don't know the book it was in but he discussed it on C-Span Booknotes. He talked about women who start as dancers and those who stay in the business as they age, they are passed around, traded and sold to other pimps in ever more less desirable circumstances - moving about the country. Often their childhoods included sexual abuse.
He exposed a business that most are not aware of. I find it very sad.

[caseymoz]

185. Some questions are rhetorical.

Last edited Sun Apr 8, 2012, 02:48 AM - Edit history (1)

And I mixed your post with answering the OP, because, though you don't say so explicitly, you seem to agree with him.

The reason why some on the left disagree is that a lot of what's being written about the sex industry, including Hedges work, is totally made up. This is a public hysteria, a witch hunt getting off the ground, in the same vein as the Satanic Ritual Cult of the '80s and '90s, and in the end, it's going to be just as destructive to innocent people.

Example: the figure of 100-150 thousand children being trafficked in this country is found everywhere. Do you know how many child prostitutes law enforcement actually finds, on average, per year? For the last 10 years? 80. This is after Congress has put $800 million dollars into fighting child trafficking. Bureaus and task forces set up to fight trafficking domestically are not busy. Not from laziness, they honestly can't find any.

The only scientifically valid, rigorous study ever done on child prostitutes agree with this. It also reveals a number of surprises about it. For one, the average age a juvenile starts prostitution if 15. Another: ninety percent have no pimps. That's right. No pimps. They work independently, and their friends got them into it, 45 percent of the time. Most had contacted social aid organizations in the last year. The total census of underage prostitutes in New York City came to about 3,900. That's in all of New York. The largest metro area in the US.

There's enough scientific evidence that shows people lie about the sex they have. Nobody has thought to ask the question of how much they lie about other people's sex, but a scientific studies on this topic would be very valuable.

That's just one example of figures pulled out of people's asses that are passed on as though they are true. If you think I'm being biased: when figures are being exaggerated by factors of a thousand and the fantastical numbers aren't being questioned, something is going on besides just pure error. How about strong perception bias?

Recently, I heard the UN cite the number of trafficked children worldwide to be 2.4 million, over 80 percent into prostitution. Nowhere in the articles does it say how they reached that figure. What census does it depend on?

How do you Hedges isn't another, better known, Mike Daisey? And if anyone from the sex industry is found and says his story isn't true, would you give him or her any credibility? No, because they're either "too damaged from being molested" as children or too dirty to be believed. That would be a typical response of the general public, and of the "left," men or women, despite Hedges puzzlement, that's completely true.

What this means is any journalist can lie their heads off about the sex industry and never face a fact check. Never. And the more sensational the story, the more it sells. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

No, I don't think what Hedges describes is typical of the sex industry. Either he was lucky, that is, found something unrepresentative; or he deliberately found something atypical and said otherwise; or he lied from beginning to end.

Now there are terrible cases of abuse, and those are always heart wrenching. But somehow the emotional pain of it is being translated into inflated numbers. And people who question them are treated with suspicion or moral outrage, as you probably do now.

[LadyHawkAZ]

203. +1 and thanks for the study link

[Sticky]

135. I've been a foster parent for 20 years....

I've had dozens of children arrive at my home horribly abused and/or neglected. Sexual abuse is so common that I naturally assume that children are victims when they come through the door. The signs start in the first few days: sleeping with their clothes on, hoarding food, peeing the bed, sexual acting out, etc
It makes me so angry I could scream!

And while I know that confidentiality is important I want to yell from the rooftops what is being done to sweet, innocent lives. I often feel the confidentiality agreement I signed is just a license for these pedophiles to continue abusing in secret!

[Snake Alchemist]

137. My wife works a lot with the foster system.

I can only imagine what you have seen and heard.

[caseymoz]

138. Could I say, I don't believe you at all.

First, if you really care that adult women who make some choices clearly aren't competent to make them, (and by implication, the given men are responsible even if, as far as you know, they probably had childhood traumas just as bad) there are better ways to breech this topic than to go into an example so particular, that it breaks both your confidence with your spouse and your spouse's confidence with her patients.

Second, if you're unethical enough to brazenly do the first and not notice anything wrong, there's reason to suspect you're also unethical enough to make whole thing up to begin with, especially for "a good cause."

Third, don't say this is a personal attack or it's irrelevant, because if your information is suspect or from unverifiable sources for whom you breech solemn confidence, there's no sense discussing any of it as though its true.

You would have been better off talking about it hypothetically than claiming some arrogated authority from improperly divulged information. But best, you might have researched and provided documentation.

This is the way social hysterias are started. Just asked some of the people who served time from the '80s and '90s Satanic Ritual Abuse hysteria. A salacious, sensational topic, and unwarranted attacks made under excuse of trying to help innocent victims. What can possibly go wrong with such good intentions?

Like the intentions aren't good, and the existence of the victims being rescued are either exaggerated a thousand-fold or a fantasy.

[Snake Alchemist]

139. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I find it ironic that this is suspect due to the anonymity that I purposely added, but on other accounts there is not enough anonymity.

[caseymoz]

148. There are ways of breeching this topic

. . . in which you didn't have to put yourself in that dilemma. Don't blame other people when you choose the lose-lose strategy.

[Snake Alchemist]

159. I believe any exposure of the topic of abuse is a win. nt

[caseymoz]

191. Any? Then you definitely could have exposed it without this. nt.

[Snake Alchemist]

193. This seemed to expose the derailers quite well. nt

[LadyHawkAZ]

186. +1,000,000

[woo me with science]

188. Excellent post. nt

[Frank Cannon]

206. And that's the end of the thread right there.

Well done, sir or madam.

Thanks for playing, everyone.

[Rex]

142. Good lord!!!

Wow, did you ever get attacked for telling us something good about your wife!!! If anyone can trace Snake Alchemist back to his wife and her practice, I have a job for you in IT security (since it is virtually impossible).

Goodluck SA, and tell your wife keep up the good work! There is nothin worse imo then a child molester. And for the record I have no idea why people piled on you over information that cannot be traced to your real life. Doubleplus strange.

[caseymoz]

149. You really believe anonymity is airtight on the web

Even if it theoretically is, do you really believe somebody can't take what he's posted here historically, what he's posted on the rest of the web, piece the information together and come up with who he is, and then who his wife is?

That's beside the point. Is it really ethical to gossip about a child recovering from molestation being treated by your spouse? Even if you accompany it with a sentiment that something good be done?

Really, take away the Internet here and just try imagine listening to his words being spoken in public. You would call it gossip. And I don't think it makes either him or his wife look good.

[Ikonoklast]

150. The owners of this site could, if they cared to.

They know the name of the poster.

Easy to find out the name of his wife...if the poster was telling the truth.



My personal opinion is that the people in this thread are being played.

[Snake Alchemist]

156. Now I AND my wife are monsters.

I'll add to the reward for the future IT security expert.

Thanks! She is something special.

[Rex]

162. Well others in here have their own opinion

of course, but mine is that I believe you and don't see why people are attacking you on the privacy issue. You gave the approximate ages of two kids and your wife's profession and what is going on between her and her two young clients. That in no way can be traced, and YES I know the admins can find out a persons information, but why would they?

Good luck and I hope your wife has tremendous success with her young wards.

[redqueen]

161. That is how desperate people are to shut discussions like this down.

Anything... ANYTHING but opening our eyes to what this culture does to women and children, and how those people are used and exploited by the sex industry.

Anything but that.

[Rex]

166. It is kinda getting ridiculous around here.

Like when people accuse you of not defending women's rights. I saw that thread (yesterday?) and was wondering how anyone can be that desperate. Evidently some people have to 'win' whatever strange debate (seems like it is all in their head) they are having with someone else no matter how stupid it looks.

I agree, anything BUT talking about the issues of porn and how it destroys the life of individuals. It is a topic people on the Internet don't want discussed imo.

[redqueen]

167. I have my own theories about what is behind that desperation...

it's different for men than for the women. It doesn't matter though.

And you're damn right that people on the internet don't want it discussed. After all, the internet is for porn, right? Can't be threatening that.

Here's Chris Hedges on porn.

[Rex]

172. It does matter and you are right it is very different.

I am a str8, middle aged white male of privilege. Believe me I know. I've grown up and seen it firsthand. Porn was created for men, by men. There can be no argument about it.

[cbdo2007]

169. There have been plenty of threads here discussing strippers, prostitutes, and porn.....

and none of them were a HIPAA violation. It just so happens, this specific one is and could have easily been posted without the offending information.

This isn't about you or me or porn or strippers or whatever, it's about a child who has a right to share things with her psychologist without the fear that that person will tell other people about it, not to mention to become a pawn on an internet message board for whatever agenda someone who isn't qualified to diagnose her situation is using her for.

[cbdo2007]

145. Mods should remove for the sake of the patient. This is a HIPAA violation.

[Rex]

146. There are no more moderators.

If you feel that strongly about this and others reading the OP, click alert or PM an admin.

[cbdo2007]

153. Thanks alerted.

[Rex]

173. No problem.

While I have a different opinion then you do on the OP, if something offends or doesn't seem right...alert or PM an admin.

[whoawhat]

164. Im glad as well

[ScreamingMeemie]

165. I mean this with the best of intentions and I don't believe HIPAA has been violated,

This is one of the reasons I hesitate when I think of taking my own child in for counseling. I would hate for him to become a story on a message board. Whether the child is identified or not, it's not my business to know this.

[NCTraveler]

179. +1

That is the point I made above.

[LadyHawkAZ]

187. +1

This calls into question for me how much concern this person really has for the people he claims to want to help. I would not see violating a wife's confidence- and repeatedly insisting it's somehow OK- as respectful to women. I would certainly not see spreading a child's abuse story all over the Internet as respectful toward abuse victims. I have never seen the attempt to paint childhood abuse victims as worthless, defective adults as respectful toward either.

The same person advocated having a woman involuntarily committed because he assumed she was a meth addict. I gave the benefit of the doubt at the time but now I'm beginning to wonder about this person's motivations.

[Snake Alchemist]

195. In truth, many counselors consult with their spouses and other counselors.

Their spouses for support and other counselors for different counseling ideas. The idea that we're going to hav a system where discussing general patients is like keeping state secrets is just not realistic nor should it be something that is necessary. Here's a good example of that end of the spectrum. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002531990

[ScreamingMeemie]

196. You have missed my point. I am not talking about anything other than taking it from a discussion

with one's spouse to a discussion with thousands of people. There is the difference.