General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan we just call those kids "unaccompanied minors"? or "refugees"?
Please?
Maybe if enough of us called and wrote the "news" media they'd stop calling them "illegal immigrants."
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)and pay the African Americans too and the Japanese
Start writing a check. I will follow you when you are done.
randys1
(16,286 posts)something tells me you wont advocate for your taxes to be raised to pay our debts, i will
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)However, keep in mind that you can forget national healthcare, free college for all, pre-K for all........all the money will go through our ancestor's ills which is fine with me, but it would leave zero left for doing the things you and I care about.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)sent to Spain or be forced to pay reparations if they want to stay in the US?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)The current crop of Central and South American countries aren't being run by indigenous peoples. Basically what you're saying is you want those who stole land ought to grant asylum to others who also stole land.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)You're entire charge of America being stolen land is predicated upon carrying blood-guilt forward to subsequent generations.
randys1
(16,286 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Then fuck, why not apply the same standards?
For God's sake, not everyone who has a slightly different opinion than yours on some detail of this story is as ignorant or stupid as those racist, nativist assholes in Murietta, nor do they need a constant reminder of what their ancestors did centuries ago.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Hopefully broadcast media will get on board.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I'd argue that, if anything, the term "illegal" might apply to any adult who facilitated this traumatic transition, but not the children themselves.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They are having hearings; some may qualify for asylum. They are not illegal until declared so by the court.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)So what if they didn't have papers? In some cases, neither did Cubans fleeing the Castro regime. Some of the people who survived the Shoah and other tragedies of the Second World War might not have had the so-called "proper" documentation either. And yet, we took them in anyway, with virtually nary a complaint from any but perhaps the most xenophobic/racist/etc. elements of society.
This being a more advanced place than 50 years ago, you'd think we would have even less of a problem taking these folks in......
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)Seems to be accurate and the least inflammatory term.
randys1
(16,286 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)and get all the legal terms changed. I wish you luck.
randys1
(16,286 posts)to use legal terms to refer to children in need
If liberals are doing this, imagine what the cons are doing
Igel
(35,307 posts)The only reason to avoid the term "illegal immigrant" is because it has a rummy cachet. It sounds bad. It appears to be demeaning. It smacks of denigration.
It's like the term "entitlement." Somebody once used it to mean something undignified, therefore the word's very essence, the only thing that string of sounds can ever mean now and for all time, is negative.
Horse hockey.
Call them nezakonnye prisheltsy if you want. It doesn't change what they are or who they are, just the nice little bits of aural fluff we toss around as though it were truly meaningful and the rael problem isn't physical reality but the names we give things. More of the "sticks and stones may break my bones, but it's words can really slash and tear at me because I like to live with every nerve exposed." If we name everything just right, it'll be such a better world. (Euphemisms, however, have a long history of being obsoleted quickly: If the referent is despised, the name for the referent will quickly accrete negative connotations. Want better naming without linguistic coercion and manipulation? Change attitudes towards the *substance* of things, towards referents.)
I call them illegal minor aliens. At least we're past saying that some 8-year-old is an "undocumented worker." Now *that* was silly.
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)and still help them.
Hekate
(90,683 posts)...has just changed the terminology.
I can't believe the extent to which my intent went whooshing over most of your heads. My gods, what part of "children" escapes your notice?
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Good grief! What the hell are some of these people doing here on DU?
Sometimes this place makes me sick at heart. It didn't used to...
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)I'm not sure which is worse: the jackasses here to purposely disrupt, or those who really believe the nonsense they post.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)It might be possible to disabuse the latter of some of their notions, but not if no one sees that it's nonsense and calls it out.
It seems to come down to those who are assholes on purpose and those who are assholes because they're ignorant and/or shallow thinkers.
I have to limit my intake of DU, lest I despair...
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)Recommended!
csziggy
(34,136 posts)for their lived are being treated. I've used "immigrants" but I like "refugees" or "unaccompanied minors" better since those terms evoke the plight the children are in.
Thank you, Hekate, for making this an OP.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)should be taken in, not undocumented immigrants to be deported.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)We'd condemn them. At the very least we owe these children the process of law as required by the provisions that George W. Bush signed.
I was using "immigrant" because to me it is not a loaded word. I use it for my ancestors who immigrated to North America so don't attach any negative connotations to it.
It turns out that my great great grandmother may have been an undocumented immigrant. Her family moved from Canada to Upper Peninsula Michigan in the 1870s. When she and her husband visited Wales (where he was born) in 1910 she listed herself as being born in Michigan. I know for a fact she was not. Her husband was naturalized - I have the records for that - but she never was as far as I can find, neither were any of her immediate family.
Of course, as a white woman whose accent was not very different than her neighbors',no one ever questioned her right to live in this country.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)ref·u·gee
/ˌrefyo͝oˈjē,ˈrefyo͝oˌjē/
a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.
as in "tens of thousands of refugees fled their homes"
synonyms: émigré, fugitive, exile, displaced person, asylum seeker
The term "illegal immigrant" is a manufactured description with intentionally negative connotations.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)To have refugee status, you must apply for it before entering the country, at the border for example. If you have already made an entry, even illegally, you must apply for asylum. If you qualify, you can stay indefinitely and even obtain a work permit. Qualifying however is problematic. To qualify as either a refugee at the border or an asylee once you are here, you must establish either a history of past persecution and the likelihood that the persecution would continue if you returned or you must establish a well-founded fear of future persecution if you returned to your home country. The only types of persecution acceptable are for race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. Being surrounded by gang violence and drug lords doesn't count. Being an economic refugee, in other words just fleeing a harsh economic environment won't work, as three-fourths of the planet would probably qualify. Even if you show past specific instances AGAINST YOU in particular of racial, ethnic, religious or political persecution, the U.S. immigration authorities are hard to convince. I once represented a young man from Iran in an asylum case. He had been involved since his teens in opposing the religious fundamentalists, demonstrating and distributing tracts. His name was written about in Iranian newspapers as a traitor once he was arrested. He produced copies of those newspapers for the USCIS (at the time called the INS). He was also imprisoned for several years, beaten and tortured with cattle prods and the like. The INS denied his case, questioning the accuracy of his facts. At trial, when he took off his shirt to show the many old scars and burns, the judge granted his asylum. I had another hard fought case about a family of ethnic Chinese from Indonesia who in the 1998 nationwide riots were targeted by rioting Moslems (an estimated 1,000 Chinese killed, dozens and dozens of Chinese women brutally raped). Their house was broken into during the massive series of anti-Chinese demonstrations in Indonesia, their possessions were either stolen or broken and they were forced into the streets where some of their neighbors suffered serious injuries. Even with proof, their asylum case dragged on for quite a while before the USCIS until it was finally approved.
I wish we lived in a world without borders but we don't. Immigrants simply seeking a better life such as schools, medicine, jobs, etc. don't qualify as refugees on the basis of economic factors alone under U.S. law. I wish we could take everyone and live without borders in a unified brotherhood and sisterhood of humankind.
Hekate
(90,683 posts)In any case, what makes a refugee is the act of fleeing a war-torn or otherwise ravaged area, not the application for such a status or the filling out of paperwork.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 8, 2014, 11:41 PM - Edit history (1)
You can call someone an economic refugee (broad sections of the world's population might be included), but to be included in the status of refugees or asylum seekers who will be granted indefinite stay under U.S. federal law, they must meet the definition of section 101(a)(42) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).
Just so you know where I stand, I'm talking about 'what is', not how I wish things could be. I think very few of these kids will qualify for asylum or refugee status, if any. I wished we lived in a unified world without borders and maybe some day we will (although I fear that world will be controlled by corporations that will take the place of nations).
I agree with you about the term illegal aliens. It's not a legal term and I think it's dehumanizing. It's true that an alien's failure to present himself or herself at a border check point for inspection on entry to the U.S. is guilty of a misdemeanor. But to therefore call them "illegal aliens" for a mere misdemeanor is unfortunate in my opinion.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)This seems to escape notice also. We are, in some ways, responsible for them.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)With the war on drugs enriching the drug cartel's or the slave wages we've instituted via NAFTA for those who work in the garment industry, our hands are bloody and we OWE these kids since we've created this situation
"Our" (not DU) reaction to this has been despicable. I'm ashamed.