I'm more open to a Sanders candidacy for president because of the way he's respected Hillary

[bigtree]

. . . he's been exceedingly respectful, even as he's aggressively argued against Hillary's economic politics.

Bernie Sanders is a decent and considerate man, and I think that makes him an effective politician. I'm impressed by the way he can strongly express his differences with Hillary's politics and still maintain a decent and respectful tone. That's going to go a long way in attracting folks who may have an affinity for Clinton, but are looking for a different kind of politics.

I think Hillary opponents here at DU could learn from Bernie and maybe make more headway in convincing folks (if that's what you're about) away from Hillary's candidacy. Here are a couple of examples of what I'm talking about:


Bernie in The Nation:

"So much of what media-coverage of politics is about today is personality politics. It’s gossip: Chris Christie’s weight or Hillary’s latest hairdo. But the real issue is how do you bring tens of millions of working-class and middle-class people together around an agenda that works for them? How do we make politics relevant to their lives? That’s going to involve some very, very radical thinking. At the end of the day, it’s not just going to be decisions from Washington. It really means empowering, in a variety of ways, ordinary people in the political process. To me, when you talk about the need for a political revolution, it is not just single-payer health care, it’s not just aggressive action on climate change, it’s not just creating the millions of jobs that we need, it is literally empowering people to take control over their lives. That’s clearly a lot harder to do than it is to talk about, but that’s what the political revolution is about."

"Look, I am not here to be attacking Hillary Clinton. I have known Hillary Clinton for a number of years; I knew her when she was First Lady a little bit, got to know her a little bit better when she was in the Senate. I like Hillary; she is very, very intelligent; she focuses on issues. But I think, sad to say, that the Clinton type of politics is not the politics certainly that I’m talking about. We are living in the moment in American history where the problems facing the country, even if you do not include climate change, are more severe than at any time since the Great Depression. And if you throw in climate change, they are more severe."

"So the same old same old Clinton administration Secretary of the Treasury Robert Rubin type of economics, or centrist politics, or continued dependence on big money, or unfettered free-trade, that is not what this country needs ideologically. That is not the type of policy that we need. And it is certainly not going to be the politics that galvanizes the tens of millions of people today who are thoroughly alienated and disgusted with the status quo. People are hurting, and it is important for leadership now to explain to them why they are hurting and how we can grow the middle class and reverse the economic decline of so many people. And I don’t think that is the politics of Senator Clinton or the Democratic establishment…. People want to hear an alternative set of policies that says to the American people: with all of this technology, with all of this productivity, the truth of the matter is that the average person in this country should be living better than ever before—not significantly worse economically than was the case thirty years ago. That’s what we need. That’s what I want to talk about… I think that the class message, that in this great country, especially with all kinds of new technology and increased productivity, that we can in fact provide a decent standard for all people, I think that resonates in fifty states in America. I think what people are looking for is leadership that is prepared to take on the big money interests (to deliver that message). That’s not what we’re seeing, by and large, from most Democrats."

__________________________________________

Bernie in HuffPo:

“In terms of Hillary, I respect her. I’ve known her. I like her. So I’m not running to attack Hillary Clinton. I’m running to talk about the issues that impact the working class of this country and the middle class.”

“No question in my mind that if there was a national Democratic primary today, Hillary would win it, and win it handsomely," Sanders said. "She would win it because she is widely respected, she is popular.”

But that is “today,” before a campaign begins in earnest, and amid a crisis.

“What people are dissatisfied with is not Hillary Clinton,” Sanders replied. “People are dissatisfied with the fact that 95 percent of all new incomes go to the top 1 percent. That’s what people are dissatisfied with. And people are dissatisfied that we have billionaires pay a lower tax rate than working families. And those are the issues."

“I think what we need is a new politics -- a different type of politics than Hillary’s," he said. "A politics that is much more grassroots-oriented, much more having to do with strong coalition-building and grassroots activism than I think Hillary has demonstrated over the years, or supported.”

THAT'S what I'm talking about, Bernie! That's the way to run an opposition campaign - not waging a scorched-earth campaign which can only advantage our republican opponents, but spending his time in the public eye convincing folks of his own priorities and initiatives and leaving the harsh personalizing to our party's actual opponents.

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. I love Bernie.....but he isn't a Democrat unfortunately...

[bigtree]

2. I think he's seriously considering running as one

. . . and he'd likely get my support if that happens.

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. I don't....why would he wait until he has to run against a woman Democrat....

I would actually lose some respect for him....why does he have to change parties after all these years....that makes him look cheap.

[bigtree]

7. well, he caucuses with Democrats in the Senate and votes with them on most initiatives

. . . in his view, the party identification can provide him better exposure and organizing. I think he's correct.

He has spoken about the benefits of an independent candidacy in galvanizing a movement, but I believe he's leaning Democrat if he decides to run.

[VanillaRhapsody]

8. that doesn't matter....after all these years he decides to BECOME a Democrat just at the same moment

We are about to get the first Woman President.....that seems rather disingenous of him. Besides even if he did.....he would have to win the Primary.....and he would get eaten alive for becoming one now...

[cali]

12. baloney. your adoration is blinding you. do you actually think bernie would

run to thwart a woman? wishful thinking on your part because you clearly dislike bernie, to think he'll be "eaten alive" for becoming a dem. guess what, vanilla? Vermonters would overwhelmingly support him, just as they do now. and no one else would particularly care- except to be glad he wasn't playing spoiler.

You project your own sensibilities on to bernie. just because YOU think like that, vanilla, doesn't mean others are like you, vanilla.

[VanillaRhapsody]

15. baloney your hatred is blinding you...

[cali]

17. nope, my dislike of corporate policies such as Hillary backs, along with her corporate

entanglements and her vote for the IWR and her predilection to rely on military solutions as well as her wanting to reach out even more to republicans, keeps my eyes wide open and my head clear.

you back corporate policies like the TPP and wars. I do not.

[VanillaRhapsody]

19. but are you going to vote for her if she wins the Primary?

[cali]

21. No. I've made clear that I won't.

I have that luxury. Perhaps if I lived in Ohio or Florida, I'd hold my nose, but I don't have to. Vermont will go overwhelmingly for whatever dem win the primary.

And you know this, dear vanilla. As YOU posted in the thread I started where I stated that I would not vote for her.

cute, vanilla.

[VanillaRhapsody]

23. then you are NOT even a Democrat.....so please stop even talkign to me....

I come here to speak to Democrats not Independents....

Oh and nothing cute about it....I wanted to remind other readers just WHAT we are dealing with here....

[cali]

24. lol. YOU think you're the grand poobah of deciding who is a dem. lol. nope.

there's a phrase for people who think such grandiose things about themselves. Sorry, I'm a dem. a real dem. not a corporate lackey war monger type.

[bettyellen]

42. oh goody, three whole electoral votes- thanks Vermont!

[brooklynite]

63. "Vermonters would overwhelmingly support him"

Unfortunately there are voters in 49 other States (plus DC) who get to vote too. Not all of them are as left-leaning as Bernie.

[Ikonoklast]

29. I wonder if a man with Hillary's same positions would get your vote.

Seems that the primary qualification for you voting for Hillary is her sex.

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. did you ask Black people who voted for Obama that question too?

Because It IS misogynist.

[Ikonoklast]

44. No, it is not. I reject your characterization as deliberate mis-direction and an

attempt to derail the discussion.

You did not answer my question.

The only reason you seem to support Hillary and her right-tilting positions have nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with gender.

I'll ask you again, would you vote for a man that has Hillary's hawkish foreign policy and a Wall Street over Main Street bent?

[VanillaRhapsody]

51. derail what? I was asked a sexist question and I responded in kind....

And did I say I won't vote for a man if one won the Primary? No I didn't therefore.....the question IS sexist!

[Ikonoklast]

54. You still are refusing to answer the question asked.

That in itself gives me my answer.


Your saying that Sanders running at the point when we could have our first woman president was entirely sexist.

[VanillaRhapsody]

55. BECAUSE its sexist....that is why I am not answering it.....

I have repeatedly said...I AM a Democrat and I always vote for the Primary winner..

[cali]

9. yes, he will run as a dem if he runs. yes, I know that. and no of course it doesn't make him look

cheap except to people who fake liking him, because they don't have the guts to say that they don't care for his politics. you are a conservative dem. why would you like his politics. and it has nothing to do with waiting to run against a woman. that is unbelievably petty. it has to do with his concern for the country, for working class and poor people. He'd become a dem (not change parties, vanilla, because obviously he doesn't belong to any party) because he doesn't want to be a Ralph Nader spoiler type.

you are really off base. unsurprisingly.

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. maybe not to YOU.....

You seem to be confused that all Americans that vote think like you...
I on the other hand am a realist not an ideologue....
And didn't you accuse me last week of "stalking you"?

[cali]

18. here's a clue: most Americans don't even know who he is.

that he's becoming a dem won't matter to most dems. and as a vermonter, which you (phew) are not, I can tell you that Bernie is massively popular and it won't bother 99% of his supporters.

wish some more, vanilla.

oh, and so?

[VanillaRhapsody]

20. and that is exactly WHY he wouldn't win...DUH!

I don't need to wish....I support the Democrat whoever that is...

Do you?

[cali]

22. do you not remember things well?

You've responded to posts of mine, vanilla, where I've said that Bernie can't win and if he runs, he's running to move the dialog left. He's a realist like ME and knows he can't win. But he's not a corporate sort like YOU and Hillary.

[VanillaRhapsody]

25. I remember quite well.....thats why I asked.....

And if you think you hurt my feelings calling me a "corporate sort" you are really really deluded....

Coming from an Independent such as yourself....I call that a compliment! By the way....YOU are not a realist....YOU are an ideologue...BECAUSE you won't vote for the Primary winner. I bet Bernie will!

[cali]

27. If you think you hurt mine by falsely calling me an Independent- you don't.

I am an independent thinking- I don't buy my ideas or positions or opinions wholesale. And sorry, vanilla dear, but I'm not remotely an ideologue. that's delusional. and of course you think it's a compliment to be called a corporate type. But you are not in line with what the dem platform is- much as it's not lived up to. Corporate politics are killing this country and anyone who doesn't recognize that OBVIOUS fact, is just not too swift or they're greedy little things.

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. If you are not committed to voting for teh Democratic Primary winner WE Democrats select..

Then YOU are not one.....You are an independent....its really very simple. Swift even....

[cali]

35. so in your uh, mind, anynone who doesn't vote for the dem in any given race is

really an independent and you of course, vanilla, would have voted for David Duke. That certainly fits with your *thinking*

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. did I stutter? Did you miss the word "Primary"?

indeed...


By the way I have NEVER voted for a Republican where a Democrat opposed them......have you?

[BootinUp]

13. He has strongly hinted he would NOT do a 3rd party campaign

based on what I have seen. I take him at his word.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

3. As opposed to?

Has Elizabeth Warren disrespected Hillary in some way? Or is there another lefty candidate out there I'm not thinking of at the moment who's been dissing Hillary?

(Edit: And yes, I read your post, and the sentence where you talk about Sanders supporters at DU. Just the way the title and intro reads makes me wonder if I missed something.)

[bigtree]

4. I think her statements *supporting* Hillary for president are not the same

. . . as Sanders respectfully opposing her. Sanders is a perfect example because so many here are measuring their opposition to Clinton on his yardstick.

We can have that discussion about Warren IF she reverses her stated intention not to run.

[VanillaRhapsody]

6. we are ready for a woman....its going to be a woman....

[cali]

10. If it's the right woman, great. I care more about policy than someone's genitals.

voting on the basis of gender is none too swift, vanila

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. Are you going to vote for the woman the Democrats select. ...

Voting on gender? Are you accusing me of misandry now too? Did you call all Black people that voted for Obama Reverse Racists?

I think accusing people of this is "not too swift" cali...

[cali]

14. uh, no. I didn't even come close to accusing you of misandry, vanilla. lol.

try again, vanilla. harder. can't you do any better than that?

[VanillaRhapsody]

34. do you ask Black people that voted for Obama that question too.....did you accuse them of

Only voting for skin color?

Then yes you did just accuse me of that.....cali lol...can't YOU do any better than that?

[cali]

37. lol. desperate much my vanilla friend?

If someone told me that they voted for black candidates just because of the color of their skin, yeah, I'd not have any respect for that. If someone told me they voted for Sarah Palin just because she's a woman, nope no respect for that either. I know you have a hard time with some basic concepts, but c'mon vanilla. Would you vote for Sarah Palin because it's "time for a woman"?

you really need to try harder- but maybe this is the best you can do, and I should just accept that.

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. did I say that?

No I didn't did I?

Apparently you ARE desperate enough to put words in my mouth!

[cali]

39. Vanilla quote in this very thread:

we are ready for a woman....its going to be a woman....

bwahahaha. and then dear vanilla has the temerity (look it up) to outlandishly accuse me of racism.

sad.

[VanillaRhapsody]

40. yes we are....and it is....that is just a fact...

where did I say I wouldn't vote for the Democrat at all if a man won the primary as YOU said you wouldn't do if Hillary does?

Sad? Why so glum chum?

[conservaphobe]

26. Funny how Sanders and Warren can make their points without resorting to childish attacks.

100% classy, unlike some of their rogue keyboard warriors.

[AuntPatsy]

28. Great post

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. Has hillary attacked someone on DU?

[bigtree]

33. +1

[morningfog]

61. They're public officials, they should be respectful.

We the people of the internet have no such duty.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. I'm very open to a Sanders presidency. Hillary, not so much.

On the issues and their track record.

[VanillaRhapsody]

43. and if she wins the Primary are you going to vote for her?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. No. But, I can't say for sure.

It's possible...in the same way it's possible that I might try trimming my fingernails in a blender or have a meal of Stegosaurus tail for lunch.

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. Good to know....

Independent....CHECK!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. Democrat..since 1965. You?

[VanillaRhapsody]

48. that was then this is now.....if you aren't committed to voting for the winner of the Primary....

Then now you are an Independent....welcome to start that party any day now!


And by the way....I have never voted for anyone that wasn't a Dem if a Dem candidate was available.....and I commit to voting for whomever wins OUR Primary....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. You're going to change my registration? Golly. Will you mow my lawn too?

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

[VanillaRhapsody]

50. thats your job.....I am just stating the facts...if you cannot commit to the Democratic Party

Primary winner.....then you are now an Independent....pretty simple really.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. It's not a matter of cannont. It's a matter of will not.

Which doesn't make me anything. I'm still a registered Democrat.

[VanillaRhapsody]

57. same result....welcome to the Independent Party.

We women Democrats wont miss you...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. You're going to revoke my registration? Tsk. Tsk.

You'll miss me? Am I going somewhere?

[VanillaRhapsody]

59. if you dont vote for whomever is the Primary winner......I didnt exclude you..

You excluded yourself.......and you marginalized yourself on a Democratic Forum.....thanks!



You are like those that want the benefits of the Union but just don't want to cough up the dues to be a member. I guess if you dont like what the fellow Union members vote for.....if you dont like the outcome....you want to withdraw your support for the Union and would cross the picket line because it suits only you...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

60. Really? How tragic.

Do you think it might be curable? Wait, lemme check....yup, still a Democrat who believes that my vote belongs to me, not a brand.

[VanillaRhapsody]

62. yea that is exactly how those that cross the picket lines say too!

Exactly like them......the Democratic Party IS a Union.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. I've walked a few picket lines as a Democrat....you?

In fact, as a Democrat, I've walked a few picket lines against Democratic policies. In fact, most of the people in those picket lines were Democrats.

[VanillaRhapsody]

65. do you protest against your Union too?

I work to support the party not against it. Do I always get what "I" want? Nope......but thats HOW a Democracy works........its not about just me and my opinions and pet issues.

Oh and by the way......I went door to door canvassing for "this" Union.......how about you, "Democrat"?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

66. Democracy isn't about individuals? Unions aren't about individuals?

And, I have protested, by striking, when my union wouldn't. I've also been a union steward who fought for individuals with grievances. You?

I consider the Democratic Party a (surprise! A political party, not a union).

If you're willing to accept a candidate, any candidate, in your party because he/she has a (D) behind their names...good for you.

I'm not.

[VanillaRhapsody]

67. no thats why its called "collective bargaining"

Youve obviously never been a Union member

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

69. APWU and NALC. You?

And, when the union didn't go along with the strike, we individual members struck anyway.

[VanillaRhapsody]

70. husband was IBEW local #9

[VanillaRhapsody]

68. actually it is exactly a union of Democrats called a Party

Please proceed and explain how a union is about individuals.......this notion is hilarious

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. You might as well say a book club is a union, or baseball team.

Do you always conform to group think? Aren't candidates supposed to appeal to voters to win their votes? Let me try this again:

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

Is Thomas Jefferson an (Horrors!) Independent?

How about John Quincy Adams?

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. do they vote and collective bargain?

Then thats not a union....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

73. I imagine they vote on what books to read.

Is "collective bargaining" what Democratic politicians call it? Was Hillary's vote to kill people when she voted for the IWR, "collective bargaining". Were the Democrats who voted against it strikebreakers? Do Democratic politicians that vote for Republican policies qualify as union members? Does a president who continues Republican policies represent "collective bargaining"?

Methinks your analogy of Party/Union has many leaks in it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

74. voting on a book to read is not collective "bargaining"

Epic union fail!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. Under that rubric any group that lobbies the government is a union.

Do you consider the likes of corporations that gather together to lower corporate taxes, fight the unions, send jobs overseas, "unions"? They vote on what to lobby for, spend oodles of money in their efforts, back candidates, and indulge in "collective bargaining" with the government which end in deals usually not beneficial to most individuals.

Epic "collective bargaining" fail.

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. you dont seem to understand what collective bargaining means

Ask the firefighters Union in Jax florida how not having collective bargaining is a huge difference. Holy firefighter fail.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. So, what does that have to do with anyone votes?

Doesn't it all still come down to Democracy? One person (individual) one vote? If individuals don't matter, why have conventions, primaries, etc. Why bother with individual votes. Whether for POTUS or the local union, or library board?

Do you think that only one party (union) should rule?

Freedom for supporters of the government only, for members of one party only, no matter how big its membership may be is, no freedom at all. Freedom is always freedom for the man who thinks differently. Rosa Luxemburg

[VanillaRhapsody]

79. what happens to Union members that cross a picket line?

What do the call picket line crossers in general?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

80. What happens if the "union" is corrupt and self serving?

You form a new union and put up a new picket line.

[redstateblues]

52. I like Bernie but

He has no chance of being elected president.

[True Blue Door]

53. Sanders has the opposite problem of Hillary.

He assumes that being right is sufficient; she thinks it's nothing at all.

Neither of them can or shall win the US Presidency.

And neither of them, if they somehow did win it, could use it effectively.

[Romulox]

77. "Centrists" have to understand that *their* politics are disrespectful to a broad group of Americans

Championing "free trade", outsourcing, war with Iraq while the standard of living continues to decline is not a neutral activity; it is grossly disrespectful to the broadest group of Americans who are losing ground.

People are hurting, and it is important for leadership now to explain to them why they are hurting and how we can grow the middle class and reverse the economic decline of so many people. And I don’t think that is the politics of Senator Clinton or the Democratic establishment….