Shep Smith just reported that...

[peoli]

they just received a report from Sky News (Rupert Murdoch) that pro Russian separatists posted on Facebook that they shot down the pane (using code words like 'the bird has fallen') and then deleted it.

No Facebook screenshot. No evidence. Just blah, blah, blah.

This is reporting? Fire up the masses with anger based on hot air..... go to commercial....

Fuck.

EDIT: Thanks for the screenshot DU'ers!

[geek tragedy]

1. That FB screenshot is apparently legit, and has been posted here

numerous times.

This one has Putin's fingerprints all over it.

[sabrina 1]

13. Well if Murdoch, who sold us the Iraq War lies says so, it MUST be true!

Lol ...

[brooklynite]

65. I guess everything COSMOS was false as well?

It came from Rupert Murdoch...

Seriously, Fox News is OWNED by Murdoch but its programmed by Roget Ailes. Murdoch runs it because it makes money.

[sabrina 1]

68. So Murdoch now has credibility on DU? When did THIS happen?

I miss a lot I guess and nothing surprises me anymore. So, when did we decide that Murdoch was a credible NEWS source? Thanks in advance.

[brooklynite]

70. My point is that Murdoch is not a "news source"

Murdoch is the owner of various media outlets with varying political perspectives and various degrees of accuracy.

[sabrina 1]

75. He's an opportunist and a propagandist and Fox is the propaganda

arm of the US media and has been since its inception. So anything coming from that source is as credible as Dick Cheney, who is their #1 fan btw.

[snooper2]

79. the pro-Rus-Si-A assholes causing all the problems who you support for some reason

showed their ass - again-

Is it something you have just against the EU or what?

[JackRiddler]

112. "Putin's fingerprints"

The evidence for these "fingerprints" is, of course, in the complete absence of evidence thereof, it being one guy's post boasting about doing it himself, on the militia's own site. But it's okay, Putin's fair game for anything, always -- just like Saddam! He's Hitler!

[joshcryer]

2. It wasn't FB, it was vk.com

https://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7256

And has since been deleted.

But people got screenshots.

[cilla4progress]

4. I'm confused...

why would they shut down a Malaysian plane?

[TwilightGardener]

5. They've been shooting down Ukrainian planes, thought this was one, mistakenly.

[sabrina 1]

18. I've been asking this but have yet not received any evidence, what evidence is there

at this early stage, that we 'know' who did this?

From all the reports I am reading from all over the world, no investigation has even begun.

They have not even removed the bodies yet. So do YOU have something, other than speculation from the Corporate Media and Murdoch, that proves the expected speculation?

[TwilightGardener]

22. This is my own speculation, which may change as facts are known.

There are, however, social media indications that rebels happily claimed responsibility initially when they thought it was just another Ukrainian jet. There has not been any evidence thus far that Ukraine had involvement in downing it. So there it stands.

[sabrina 1]

31. Those posts are not evidence of anything, anyone could have posted that, in fact

that kind of thing was done in the run up to the Iraq War. But thanks for confirming that there is no evidence of anything yet.

I'm sure we'll see a few more 'claims' on the Social Media, we always do, then they are suddenly 'taken down'. Saw that with Libya, Egypt, Tunisia. So that can be discarded absent any proof since we have become accustomed to the use of Social Media by operatives.

[TwilightGardener]

34. No solid evidence, just theories right now.

[joshcryer]

54. There is plenty of evidence.

Now we got intercepts with them talking about it:

Google cache of their misinformed admission (they thought it was an An-26): http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fvk.com%2Fwall-57424472_7256

Then there's the fact that Buk's were seen in the area:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=848750

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=848745

The evidence is piling up and the pro-Putinists are scrubbing their social history of any mention of Buk's and An-26 downings.

[TwilightGardener]

59. I hope everybody is saving everything--(NSA, now's your chance! LOL)

[joshcryer]

61. The internet doesn't forget.

The pro-Putin fascists will have their colors revealed in due course. They'll delete their entire histories, and start over.

[SidDithers]

72. Did you see how RT is reporting this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025252653



Sid

[joshcryer]

78. A good hide.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

88. Glad that bullshit got hidden...

Maybe soon enough we can ban RT from DU. It has NO place on a progressive message board.

[MohRokTah]

91. Hey, see. You and I can agree on something.

RT belongs in the same pit as WND.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

92. Fact, sir...

Democrats usually do have common ground. I see we've found ours.

[atreides1]

36. Or the Ukrainians could have done it!

For the same reason...thinking it was a Russian aircraft flying into their airspace.

[TwilightGardener]

58. Yeah, but...Ukraine should be able to tell, on radar, what a passenger jet

(no matter the country of origin) would look like, and proper altitude, etc. I haven't seen where they've been shooting down any Russian planes in this conflict, whereas the pro-Russians have been shooting Ukrainian planes down recently, and they are known to have the means to do it. The "rebels", however, don't have radar, to my knowledge, unless it's supplied by Russia. This makes it more likely that it was a rebel or Russian mistake. It's even hard to see how it would serve Ukraine to shoot down a large passenger-appearing Russian plane at 33,000 feet--not likely to land in Ukraine or pose a threat at that altitude. That would be an open act of war against Russia (they know the rebels themselves don't have such jets) and just invite their own obliteration.

[joshcryer]

6. They mistrook it for a cargo plane. An-26.

They shot two of those down already, and probably thought they could get another one. No doubt it was an accident, but they should never have had access to Buk's in the first place.

As it stands now Twitter and the pro-Russian side are wiping any mention of the Buk's they acquired.

[alsame]

14. Do cargo planes and

commercial planes fly at similar altitudes? Serious question, not snark, I don't have aviation knowledge.

[joshcryer]

15. Nope, the Boeing flies 3000 meters higher.

It was a really poor decision to shoot at it.

[alsame]

17. Thank you. nt

[cleanhippie]

95. That's not really accurate.

There are many "cargo" planes that are variants of commercial airliners, and from the outside, they all look, and fly, the same.

For example, a 747 passenger jet and a 747 cargo jet flying the same itinerary, would fly the same route and similar altitudes.


Having a "cargo" designation means little.

(Expertise: 20 year naval aircrewman qualified on multiple platforms with 12,000 hrs flight time.)

[joshcryer]

97. The An-26 can only go to 7,500 meters.

This plane was shot down around 10,000 meters.

I was talking about the An-26 specifically, because that's what they reference in their now deleted post.

[cleanhippie]

99. Yes, there are MAJOR differences between the AN-24 and the airliner shot down.

But that's not the question the poster asked. Hence my "that's not really accurate" response to you.

Not picking a fight here, just being clear about the question asked. Look at my response to the other poster. It mirrors what you stated.

[joshcryer]

100. Fair enough.

I was answering a more specific question about this plane being mistaken for a cargo carrying An-26 which is what the deleted post is about.

You are correct that not all cargo planes fly at lower altitudes and that they can fly at similar altitudes.

[cleanhippie]

103. Agreement!

[cleanhippie]

96. Yes, many do.

In fact, many "cargo" planes are simply different variants of civilian airliners.

The plane that was shot down and the AN-24 "cargo" plane some are reporting the airliner was mistaken for are VERY different (in many regards like size, engine type, general appearance). Even the most ignorant among us regarding aviation would not confuse the two as being the same.

[alsame]

98. Thank you for clarifying. nt

[geek tragedy]

7. they saw a big plane and assumed it was Ukrainian military

Decided to use the fancy new toys Uncle Vladimir gave them to send a message to the Ukrainian government.

Putin and Streikov should sit together at a war crimes trial.

[atreides1]

38. Or the Ukrainians could have done it!

They also have those fancy toys that they received from the Russians in friendlier days...like the Buk SAM system!

[geek tragedy]

44. that's some pretty desperate spin.

1) the Ukrainians do not control that area--Putin/Streikov do;

2) The Ukrainians haven't shot down a single plane of any size in this conflict

3) because the rebels don't have planes, so the Ukrainians have absolutely zero reason to be shooting at anything

all logical signs point towards the Russians.

especially since Streikov was bragging about it earlier, when they thought it was a Ukrainian plane.

[Tarheel_Dem]

113. In other words, "Leave Putin Alone"?

[MohRokTah]

9. They thought it was a Ukrainian An-26 military transport, most likely.

The VK posts made the claim they had just shot down an An-26 and even ITAR-TASS reported they had:

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741164

[mylye2222]

16. In fact I do think they wanted to take down a plane, no matter was the compagny, within Western

people in it, for to punish Western position /ukraine supporting.

[Takket]

20. why are commercial planes flying through areas where planes are being shot down?

[Warren Stupidity]

28. well that is a good question.

Doesn't get anyone off the hook for this massacre, but seriously, a conflict zone with active land and air engagements ought to be a red flag for commercial air traffic.

[sabrina 1]

32. A lot of people asking that question right now.

[joshcryer]

55. Because they didn't think people would shoot them down?

They were wrong, apparently.

[jeff47]

107. 1) Altitude

Before this, the planes that were shot down were at low altitude where shoulder-fired missiles can reach. Those missiles can't reach 33,000 feet, where this plane was flying.

2) Weather
The usual route is to fly further to the south. There were extremely severe storms over that area, so the plane flew further north.

[JHB]

93. Same reason the USS VIncennes shot down an Iranian airliner full of people...

Same reason the Soviets shot down KAL 007...

People with missiles expecting trouble and getting it into their heads -- very wrongly -- that the civilian plane is actually a military target.

[peoli]

8. I can't read Russian.

[joshcryer]

11. The post has been deleted.

You can find translations elsewhere: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=848628

[Bosonic]

47. Google cached version

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fvk.com%2Fwall-57424472_7256

[joshcryer]

48. Good find.

Didn't think to try that.

So does anyone doubt this now? He said it on his official announcements page, then he took it down.

[MohRokTah]

3. Here

MT @strobetalbott: Donetsk separatist boss Strelkov, Kremlin's proxy in war, says he ordered shootdown

Link

[peoli]

10. Ok cool. He just reported it on air live 5 minutes ago.

[MohRokTah]

12. The VK post Strelkov made was done as the plane was crashing.

Eery, eh?

[sabrina 1]

21. Anyone could have posted that. We saw much of that during the Iraq War

lies. Got anything more credible than that to back up the speculation from Fox? Who, btw, did plenty of this kind of thing during the Iraq War. It's going to take a lot more than more of the same tactics for the world to believe anything published by the Corporate Media.

[MohRokTah]

27. ACtually, I got that from Sam Stein

It was on the Igor Streklov's VK page where he has been posting propaganda for weeks.

It was posted just as the plane came down, and included video of the plane.

I expected some pro-Russian denial on this, but the more information that comes out, the worse this looks for Putin.

[sabrina 1]

35. You should have expected fact checking here. We did a lot of that during

the Iraq War so are not as easily bamboozled by tactics like using the internet eg by interested parties.

Saw lots of 'videos' that turned out to be fake airc. And we learned about PR groups who are paid millions to 'sell war'. Ever hear of the Rendon Group eg?

I guess you answered my question, as of now no one has a clue who caused this terrible tragedy. Thanks.

[MohRokTah]

37. You should check the facts, too.

ITAR-TASS reported that separatists had claimed they shot down an An-26:

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741164

This coincides with the timing and the wording of the post by Strelkov on VK, which was immediately pulled when reports that a Malaysian Jet Liner had crashed in the Eastern Ukraine.

[sabrina 1]

64. The only fact there is that someone put up a message on a site claiming

to have shot down a plane. And then, it was gone. We have no clue who put that there.

Planting 'stories' is not new, in fact, if I wanted to place blame and I was working for some PR firm, like the Rendon Group, or hired to funnel info to them (remember that?)that is the first thing I would think of. Put up a post supposedly by those I want to blame, time it for maximum 'credibility' then take it down, either to make it look like 'they realized they made a mistake' or 'to avoid analysis'. Iow, throw fecal matter onto the internet and some of it will stick.

Of course it COULD be true, but as of now, we have no way of knowing and plenty of experience with deceptive tactics to not take anything at face value. These kinds of 'stories' were 'fed' to, even the NYT during the Iraq debacle, using credible journalists, at the time anyhow, like Judith Miller to get them into the mainstream.

We were all watching so as I said, forgive me if I don't take an internet post as fact until it is proven to be fact.

[MohRokTah]

67. Well, since the account has been used by Igor Strelkov for weeks and weeks,

And the post was put up right as the event happened, it's pretty damned evident that Igor Strelkov was celebrating a great victory over shooting down what he thought was a second An-26 plane (They shot one down on the 14th, claimed responsibility, and it has been confirmed).

Given that ITAR-TASS reported the same claim by the rebels of a downed An-26 within minutes of the post, the picture gets very clear.

Occam's Razor being in effect, the simplest answer is the rebels who are fighting a proxy war for Putin shot down the airliner.

[sabrina 1]

69. And it's also possible that he was fed false information, isn't it?

Occam's razor tells me to expect these things when there are those who want war so desperately, (remember Iraq) they will use any tactics to get it started and they're good at it.

Sorry, an internet post is proof of nothing. But we'll see, and I'm sure it will be used as were Judith Miller's and Curveball's revelations.

[MohRokTah]

71. Well, since he posted video of the crash taken seconds before he hit the post button

it's kind of tough to say he was fed false information.

BTW, the you can see the video Strelkov posted by flipping on your television. All the cable news stations are playing it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

119. She'll never see the video, it's not RT approved.

[MohRokTah]

60. More facts for you to check

Here's the Google cache of his post:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fvk.com%2Fwall-57424472_7256

[Dr Hobbitstein]

90. No use with that one...

So far up Putin's ass it's not even funny...

[Tarheel_Dem]

43. Can't get much more "pro-Russian" than "50 million US households now watch RT". Some serious....

"denial" there.

[MohRokTah]

45. .

[SidDithers]

73. +1...

That shit was hilarious.

Sid

[Tarheel_Dem]

76. And to this day, despite numerous requests, has provided ZERO evidence of such nonsense.

[SidDithers]

77. RT is claiming Ukraine was trying to shoot down Putin's plane...

Thankfully, a DU jury decided that this time, RT bullshit should be hidden.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10025252653

Sid

[Tarheel_Dem]

94. I think RT should be banned, sitewide. But that's just me. The Kremlin should get no audience here.

[onenote]

39. Why do you keep claiming that this is only "from Fox"?

It's being reported by a wide range of sources. Your claim that the tweet may have been fabricated is speculation on your part. Maybe the claims that it is real also are speculative, but the fact that they've been taken down, and that the pro-Russian side has claimed responsibility for recent takedowns of aircraft make the latter speculation more credible than your "it happened in Iraq" claim.

[MohRokTah]

46. There's a good side to this.

Putin is now going to have no choice but to completely abandon the Separatists or face massive diplomatic and economic issues.

[sabrina 1]

49. Of course it's speculation, THAT IS MY POINT. It is all speculation, isn't it, since

this tragedy just happened and all sides are speculating right now and pointing fingers. It is also speculation that that site is legitimate at this point, isn't it? We saw a lot of this during the Arab Spring and as a result I believe NOTHING from the internet that isn't coming from credible sources with absolute proof. The internet is a plethora of speculation. We remember the 'videos' that were 'proof' back in the Bush era so forgive me if I care about facts. I thought we all did, seems speculation is good enough now, thanks for the lesson.

[onenote]

57. I'm curious what you "believe"

You say you believe nothing from the Internet that isn't coming from credible sources with absolute proof.

Do you believe a plane crashed? That people died? There are videos of plane pieces, on the spot reporting of bodies and plane parts, video of a big explosion. Is that enough? Is that "absolute proof"?

Do you believe it was a Malaysian airliner? Or is that just speculation?

I could go on and on...

[sabrina 1]

62. I believe a plane was most likely shot down over what has turned into

war zone and tragically hundreds of innocent people are dead. Period. Because that is all anyone knows. Now your turn, what do you 'believe'?

[onenote]

63. I believe

a plane crashed over what is a war zone and that there are good reasons to believe that the crash was the result of the plane being struck by a missile fired by or on behalf of Russian separists who there are good reasons to believe were claiming credit for shooting down a plane before it was revealed that it was a passenger plane at which time those claiming credit suddenly went silent.

[sabrina 1]

66. Well, there are good reasons to believe anything at this point since we have

zero information as to the facts. Which is why all I believe is what has been confirmed, that there was a tragedy that killed hundreds of people and the bodies have not yet been removed, that there are grieving families who just got that news and whose lives as a result, are forever changed.

Other than everything else is speculation and it's a shame that so little is known about the victims, so little focus on THEM while everyone is running around, using this tragedy for their own political purposes when they have no clue what happened.

RIP to all the tragic victims, and while I know this is not possible right now nor for a long time, I wish them peace eventually.

[OilemFirchen]

101. You do realize...

that you this may not be the "actual" DU, right?

Just speculating, of course.

[Cha]

115. thanks for that.. tweet at link..

Xyxox ‏@Xyxox · 8h
@versharma @samsteinhp @strobetalbott There was no An-26 shot down today. Only the airliner was shot down. Logic dictates mistook plane.

[DonViejo]

19. TPM also had a report...

quoting a separatist as saying he "ordered" it. I went back to copy it for posting here at DU but, the article was gone.

On edit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5252583

Has the same news as was on TPM

[sabrina 1]

24. How does anyone know who posted that? Any proof of who did it? I'm sure we'll

see similar stuff put up and taken down before it can be analyzed from all sides. Remember the Rendon Group, the tactics, Curveball etc before the Iraq War, and anything coming from Fox is automatically propaganda of course. They are the tool of those itching for more war. Unless I missed when Fox became a 'credible source'.

[MohRokTah]

41. Well, ITAR-TASS reported they shot down an An-26 today

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741164

No An-26 was shot down today.

The only aircraft shot down today in that region was the Malaysian aircraft.

This jibes completely with the VK post by Igor Strelkov, which was pulled as soon as the reports of a Malaysian Airliner crash in Eastern Ukraine started hitting the internet.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. Where is my war drum?

[geek tragedy]

25. Next to your straw man. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

30. beating a straw man has no audible consequences.

beating a war drum has fabulous effects.

[geek tragedy]

33. calls for the US to go to war with Russia at DU: still zero nt

[Warren Stupidity]

80. Well that's pretty clever. No the calls were for intervention in Ukraine.

And there were a shitload.

[geek tragedy]

82. Who here called for US troops to go into Ukraine?

What you're going to see are criminal indictements of the Russian stooges who launched the missile, freezing of Russian assets, and possibly a sanctions regime like has been applied to Iran.

All of which is more than appropriate.

[Warren Stupidity]

84. Another clever escape. Intervention != troops.

[geek tragedy]

86. Who called forthe US to use military force in Ukraine? nt

[thucythucy]

104. Just to clarify--

are you saying any "intervention"--including economic sanctions and freezing assets--is "war"? Or are you being sarcastic?

Because your first comment seemed to be about people on DU allegedly beating "war drums" and now you seem to be saying you never accused anyone of calling for troops. Just "intervention,"

[Cha]

116. Thanks for that.. just wanted you to know that

someone out here is reading this and appreciating it. Jeeze!

[sabrina 1]

26. Just go to Fox or any of the US Corporate media, it will put you in the 'right'

frame of mind for war. It always does.

[SomethingFishy]

89. Yup... I love watching people get all bent out of shape

from these "reports". I keep thinking of the poor Israelis that ABC news headlined with, pictures of them displaced, their home destroyed by the evil Palestinians..

Only it turned out the story was exactly the reverse. It was Israel who bombed a Palestinian family out of their home. And I never saw the retraction, someone had to tell me they retracted the story.

The news media is nothing anymore, a source of entertainment for the wealthy and a Valium for the masses. I can count on 1 hand the number of "journalists" I actually trust.

[sabrina 1]

114. You're right, our media is nothing more than entertainment. sometimes when there is big story

I go to several sources that have been proven themselves to trustworthy for the most part, then I go check CNN to see how they are reporting it. It's like a different universe. I don't believe they have any investigative journalists around anymore so mostly it's as if they are reading from a script someone is handing out. No wonder their ratings are so dismal.

I remember going to Al Jazeera during the Bush years and being amazed at the professionalism of their discussion programs, how informed their journalists were not to mention their courageous coverage of the Iraq War. Then I would go to the Corporate Media, until I couldn't stand it anymore.

I didn't see that ABC story about Israel and Palestine, but it doesn't surprise me. Their coverage of ACORN was another shameful display. Even after the many court decisions proving that the right wing morons had faked everything, the media never covered THAT story and helped destroy an organization that was so needed.'

My rule of thumb is, if the Corporate Media is pushing something, be suspicious and check other sources immediately.

[MohRokTah]

42. I actually expect this to force Putin to abandon the separatists.

He won't have much of a choice now.

[geek tragedy]

51. he should go on trial alongside them. nt

[MohRokTah]

53. Won't happen.

But at least it may force an end to the conflict and Russian agitation.

[geek tragedy]

56. we'll see. he's been reckless on this so far. Maybe he has lost it.

I would expect the most severe sanctions possible on Russia's economy. Putin helped murder citizens from several EU and NATO countries there.

Even China may not have his back on this.

[Warren Stupidity]

81. Like the way we put Reagan on trial for Iran Flight 655?

Oh wait.

[geek tragedy]

83. Reagan was a filthy war criminal who did belong in prison.

Putin will not go on trial for the same reason Reagan did not--despite both deserving it.

[Warren Stupidity]

85. Well we agree on that.

[geek tragedy]

87. I've compared Putin to Reagan in the past.

Especially the way Reagan abused the people of Nicaragua, pig that he was.

[herding cats]

52. They need to take back their Russian-built Buk missile system before they part ways.

The rebels have no business wielding weapons like those.

I do agree with you though. I think this is the beginning of the end of Russian involvement in the the war there.

[Tarheel_Dem]

109. Not unless the EU takes a stronger stance on him. I know they have to be concerned about their.....

economies, but so do we. We shouldn't have to suffer, unilaterally, when Putin's forces are much closer to their doorstep than ours. I heard a distressing report on NPR yesterday that the EU is concerned about their economies, and internal politics. Well, that's all well & good, but they should be as concerned about Poland and the Baltic Region, and send Putin the appropriate message.

[geek tragedy]

117. His thugs just murdered 200 or so EU citizens.

The time for tolerating his shenanigans is over.

[Tarheel_Dem]

118. Let's hope Merkel comes out forcefully. The Australian PM seems to be on board for...

retribution, let's hope others follow suit. Putin is a disease to the planet, and the spread needs to be contained.

[geek tragedy]

120. Merkel hasn't been the problem. Hungary and

other rw governments have been.

[Tarheel_Dem]

121. Good to know. However, Merkel is probably the most powerful leader in that group....

of nations, and they usually set the tone. I just get pissed when the talking heads, especially the BBC, put all the onus on the US, like they don't have leaders of their own.

[KeepItReal]

29. Here's reporting from the UK Guardian

Look for: "A site attributed to a separatist leader suggests rebels may have shot down MH17"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live

[herding cats]

40. I was just about to post that as well.

This one goes directly to the post so people don't have to scroll to find it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live#block-53c81146e4b024b6f329c4ce

[sabrina 1]

50. Sky News = Murdoch, and 'poof' the 'evidence' is gone. Thanks for the OP.

[jeff47]

108. I eagerly await your quoting of RT to show "what really happened". (nt)

[Tarheel_Dem]

110. Any minute now.

[SidDithers]

111. It's coming soon...

Just wait for it.

Sid

[sabrina 1]

122. RT doesn't know what happened, yet. Nor does anyone else. You'll be waiting

a long time if you actually want facts because there has been no investigation yet and most reputable journalists from International media around the world, other than anything connected to Murdoch eg, tabloids etc, including RT are not even pretending to know what happened.

Our Corporate Media however, already 'knows'. Makes you wonder, doesn't it, how they could possibly know when no investigation has even started yet. But that's what I expect ever since Corps took over the US airwaves.

Now that you reminded me, I am going to check RT, Al Jazeera International and CCTV to see if they too are 'speculating' and calling it 'news'. I doubt it, they are far too professional to speculate on something as serious as this.

The big question to be answered right now is 'cui bono'. Who benefits. We shall see, or maybe we never will ...

[FrodosPet]

123. Why did the Russian State news agency post this?

ITAR-TASS is not western corporate media, is it?

They are ADMITTING - on Russian state media, no less, that the separatists shot down a plane that crashed near Torez, in the "Donetsk People’s Republic" (aka Eastern Ukraine)

So did an An-26 come down there as well as the Malaysian jet?





You are right that we don't conclusively KNOW who did it, but we know who PROBABLY did it.

[jeff47]

124. It's amusing you think there will be an investigation.

As if the plane went down near Des Moines and the NTSB will publicly and thoroughly investigate.

There will be no investigation. The black boxes have already been shipped to Moscow for Putin and friends to lie about.

Our Corporate Media however, already 'knows'.

Actually, our corporate media is not the source for these claims. Instead, alternative media found the information first. Corporate media is lagging behind.

But hey, why let reality get in the way of a good rant?

Now that you reminded me, I am going to check RT, Al Jazeera International and CCTV to see if they too are 'speculating' and calling it 'news'. I doubt it, they are far too professional to speculate on something as serious as this.

Yes, RT was so professional about the invasion of Crimea.

[jeff47]

125. Btw:

RT is so professional that one of its reporters just quit over RT lying in its coverage.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025256299

[NCTraveler]

74. Someones head is exploding on du. nt.

[ieoeja]

102. No matter who shot it down, it was a mistake.

Why all the finger pointing at DU? For that matter, why all the defensiveness when the finger is pointed at the side you're rooting for?

It doesn't matter who shot it down. It was a case of mistaken identity.

In fact, this is not nearly as bad as the Russians shooting down KAL-007 or the US shooting down that Iranian jet. Neither of those occurred during an actual shooting war. This one did. Flying a jet through a real-life shooting war puts the biggest part of the blame on whomever decided to pull that stunt.


Why, yes, I *am* blaming the victim. Remember that idiot who was dry-shooting himself in the head the other day only to kill-shoot himself in the head later when he picked up the gun after someone had loaded it? He was the victim of that one too. That doesn't stop him from being to blame.

[thucythucy]

105. Out of curiosity

do you think all American airline carriers ought to stop flights to Israel? That's a "shooting war" too, is it not? If someone shoots down an airliner flying into Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, will you blame the airline then?

[onenote]

106. Have any aircraft been targeted?

No. But in recent days, aircraft have been targeted in the Ukraine, which is why people are asking why commercial airlines continued to operate in that space.