Police: Fla. father beats accused child abuser

[steve2470]

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/crime/article/Police-Fla-father-beats-accused-child-abuser-5630665.php

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. (AP) — A Daytona Beach father beat an 18-year-old man unconscious after finding him sexually abusing his 11-year-old son early Friday morning, police said.

The father called 911 around 1 a.m. after he walked in on the alleged abuse, police said. When officers arrived, they found Raymond Frolander motionless on the living room floor. He had several knots on his face and was bleeding from the mouth.

"He is nice and knocked out on the floor for you," the father told the 911 dispatcher. "I drug him out to the living room."

more at link above

[CBGLuthier]

1. Does anyone remember when we used to warn people before posting graphic images?

Yeah I guess not. I think I need a break. Between some inconsiderate poster showing me a picture after I said it caused me great pain and the jury not giving a shit and now this sickening thing my nerves are getting frazzled..

[steve2470]

2. ok I'll delete it nt

[steve2470]

10. sorry, sincerely :/ nt

[get the red out]

3. Good for Dad

[MohRokTah]

4. They didn't arrest the father.

Had they arrested him, I'm positive any prosecutor worth their salt would have had the father released.

Had they arrested the father and a stupid prosecutor decided to go to trial, no jury in the world would have convicted the father.

[bravenak]

5. That man showed restraint.

The rapists got lucky.

[steve2470]

13. he was lucky, some fathers would have killed the man

I might have, who knows what you're capable of in a situation like that.

[bravenak]

14. I think i'm capable.

I experienced that as a child and i feel like i could lose control. If somebody put their nasty hands on my child, they'd have no hands to worry about anymore.

[gratuitous]

6. Nice

What do we need cops, prosecutors and a criminal justice system for anymore? Private citizens can handle it all themselves, and we don't have to worry about due process or evidence or any of that other boring bullshit. The people will love it!

[dilby]

7. Well I am sure the father asked nicely for the guy to stop raping his son

and to please wait till the police arrived. I know that is exactly what I would have done, not.

[gratuitous]

8. Like I said

It's so much faster and cheaper, and even though it's just the man's word for it, I'm sure he wouldn't have any reason to lie. Besides, everyone feels so good about it, so what's the harm?

[Aerows]

11. He was RAPING his child

I would hope he wouldn't stand idly fucking by and let that happen!

I'm not even a parent and there is no way in hell I could remain calm and just let a person do that to a child. Good grief!

The disgrace of a person admitted he was raping the boy, on top of all of that.

[pnwmom]

12. Allegedly raping. It isn't inappropriate for gratuitous to point this out.

I'm not defending the actions of the 18 year old if he was raping the 11 year old. But generally it's a good idea to get the facts in a situation before imposing judgment.

[JohLast]

15. fact: he saw someone raping his child.

Judgement: he beat the hell out of the person that he saw rape his child.

[pnwmom]

23. No, that's not a fact, it's a claim. There's nothing in the article

that says the police had independent proof of the father's claim.

[JohLast]

26. ok

[moriah]

31. Yeah, the victim's word is never good enough. n/t

[pnwmom]

32. Where is that in the article? n/t

[moriah]

33. If you read the article I linked in the other post, you'd know.

"The child told investigators that he was playing video games with friends but after the friends left, Frolander asked the boy to sit in his lap and then took him to a back room, the report states.

Frolander then pulled the boy’s pants down and started sexually battering him, the boy told police, adding that Frolander had been abusing him since he was 8 years old, investigators said."

http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20140718/NEWS/140719489/1040?p=1&tc=pg

It's three pages, the quote is on the second page.

[pnwmom]

36. Thank you. Why did you assume I'd seen your other post? n/t

[moriah]

37. Eh, it was in reply to you, in the same thread.

/shrug

The 911 call is also linked there. It's quite compelling, you can hear the feelings of betrayal in the father's voice when he says he loved his son's molester "until 15 minutes ago".

[Lancero]

42. Here it is

"According to the arrest affidavit, Frolander admitted the abuse."

Right at the end of the article.

[pnwmom]

44. Admitted it to whom? To the father? Who then told the police?

Because when the police got there he was unconscious.

Even if he told the police something, it's still not a fact till a court says it is. At the most it's an allegation -- to anyone who believes in the justice system, anyway.

There's this little thing called "due process" and this other little thing called "Miranda rights." They protect us all, even slime. If they didn't protect slime, they wouldn't protect us either.

[Lancero]

45. Ok, here's another

"The father has not been charged with any crime."

From the middle of the article.

Anyway, this person has since woken up. He was awake when they took his mugshot. Could the police have questioned him when he was awake? Most likely, they did. The police haven't found reason to arrest him, and they've had time to question this person for themselves. Given that the father hasn't been arrested, it's a logical conclusion that this person admitted to the abuse during questioning.

[Crunchy Frog]

34. ALLEGEDLY beat the hell out of him.

If the rape is "alleged", then so is the beating.

[alphafemale]

47. This is TOO perfect a reply.

Yes that is right.

The father ALLEGEDLY beat the hell out of him.

This works both ways.

[Aerows]

16. The rapist admitted to it.

I realize that justice calls for getting the facts, but if you catch someone in the middle of such a vile act and they then admit to it, I'm hard pressed to fault the father for responding in rage.

[gratuitous]

17. Don't be such a buzzkill

Everyone's happy that the one guy whaled the tar out of the other guy. Let's just leave it at that. If we start getting into that other messiness, we might not all feel so good about it.

[moriah]

19. "According to the arrest affidavit, Frolander admitted the abuse."

I certainly hope you are not suggesting the father should have stopped and asked "What, is this consensual?" before stopping an adult from sexually abusing their child. And anyone who could not understand a moment of temporary insanity upon finding their child being sexually assaulted -- hell, even if they just THOUGHT they were being assaulted and they were wrong -- is severely lacking in empathy for the protective instinct parents have over their own offspring.

I am not a violent person. I was bulled throughout elementary school, and I refused to ever hit back. I did not believe in it. I protested the Iraq War in 2003 in NYC, I was handing out info packets to the people arrested during the Carlyle Group protest April 7, 2003, the same day that protesters were shot with non-lethal projectiles in Oakland and that photograph hit the news with the girl who had been hit in the jaw by a wooden bullet. I don't believe in the death penalty -- either it's cruel and inhumane, or it's too easy of a punishment on the criminal -- either way, it's not right, and too many innocent people are in jail now. I have never raised my hand to another human being in my life, even in self defense.

But if I walked in on someone abusing a child... whatever I had to do, I would do, in order to stop it. Anyone would.

A parent? The man is lucky he is alive. The defense "extreme emotional disturbance" was created for exactly such cases.

[pnwmom]

24. No, I'm not suggesting that at all. The question is,

is it a fact that Frolander admitted the abuse? Did he admit it to the father or, in his unconscious state, to the police?

The article says that Frolander was unconscious and knocked out on the floor. Hardly in much of a state to give a full confession.

Technicalities, I know. But these technicalities protect us all.

[moriah]

29. He admitted it to the police, after medical treatment.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20140718/NEWS/140719489/1040?p=2&tc=pg

"According to Frolander’s arrest affidavit, police say when they questioned him he admitted sexually battering the child and said, 'I’m guilty.'" The abuse had been going on for three years, if you believe the child victim.

Here's the 911 call, if you can handle listening to it.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/audio-911-call/27017032

Kyle and Stan from South Park had it right:

Stan: "Dude. You have sex with children."
Kyle: "You know, we believe in equality for everybody and tolerance and all that *** stuff, but dude, fuck you."
Stan: "Seriously."

This father showed *restraint*, people. And this child abuser will get a lawyer appointed if he can't afford one to defend him. I don't have to.

[seabeyond]

25. the guy admitted to it. nt

[pnwmom]

27. The alleged attacker was "unconscious" and "knocked out." Not in shape to admit to anything

at that point.

Do you have any details on when and who he admitted it to? The father or the police? Or what he actually said? Or if the police read him his Miranda rights?

Or does suddenly none of that matter?

[seabeyond]

28. at the police station. i saw it in the first thread of this story. i am not gonna hunt it down. nt

[moriah]

38. The father's, and the 11-year-old boy's. But a victim's word doesn't mean shit to you, does it?

I'm astounded to hear people on DU defend a child molester who was caught, literally, with their pants down.

It's just sickening.

[moriah]

18. With all due respect, I doubt you are a parent.

I'm not either, but I know far too many.... and as for myself, I cannot guarantee what I might do if I caught someone in the act of raping ANY child, let alone MY child if I ever have any.

And I would not feel guilty doing whatever it took to stop a rape in progress, especially of a child, and subdue the assailant until police got there. Sadly for the rapist, I'm a 5'1 female, so it'd involve a weapon beyond my fists -- lamp, other blunt object, whatever was handy.

[gratuitous]

20. Hey, it makes you feel good

I'm right there. Everybody's happy the guy got beat up, saved all kinds of time for the authorities, and the only people who would object aren't parents or anyone else who matters or counts. Win-win-win-win. It's our foreign policy/war on terrorism writ small, so why shouldn't we be happy and not feel guilty?

Boy, some days you just can't agree enough with people. If it wasn't for this nagging, unnatural attachment I have to a quaint old document, I'm sure I could trim my ideals to suit the current fashion in a snap. But I'm trying real hard so as not to harsh anyone's good time.

[frylock]

21. yes, the father should've respectfully requested that the man please stop raping his son..

you've made your point.

[moriah]

30. I'm not glad the guy got beat up, I'm glad the abuse was stopped and the father is not being charged

... for defending his son against a child molester.

And if you aren't glad for those things, I don't see how you can call yourself a human being.

[Hugabear]

53. "It makes you feel good"

I highly doubt that the father in this case was beating the guy because it made him feel good to dispense his own justice.

This isn't a case of vigilante justice, where a lynch mob goes after a guy accused of raping or molesting someone. This is a case where a father walks in and catches someone in the act.

[Sheepshank]

56. "Allegedly" raping the child

you've said that several times, the alleged raping of an 11 year old boy...even when the rapist admitted the raping.

How about this. The alleged beating he got from the father of the child...even when the father admitted the beating.

Do we know that the rapist, in panic mode didn't try to accost the father in any way? Jump at him, attempt to beat, bite, scratch the father while he was being pulled off the boy?

Why are you not giving equal defensive treatment to the father and son while running with all sorts of assumptions?

[unreadierLizard]

22. Maybe you'll know better

If you walk in on someone raping someone you love, or your child, or a relative. you'd do whatever you had to in order to stop it. I hope it never happens but your naivete is stupid.

I would have done the same thing. Anyone would have.

I would hope you wouldn't respectfully request that they stop abusing your loved one and cite the constitution then.

[Ruby the Liberal]

35. What would you reaction be to seeing someone having sex with an 11 year old?

Because that is rape.

Would you attempt to stop it by any means possible, or just hang out & call the cops and Dominos to see who got there first?

Do you also defend those who covered up Jerry Sandusky?

[gratuitous]

40. My goodness!

All these people rooting on one man beating another unconscious, feeling mighty fine about it, but awfully perturbed that one person objects. I wonder why they're so upset about that one dissenter, instead of just clapping one another on the back and celebrating the beat down?

I also wonder just how far the beating should go? Is it enough to beat the rapist until he unconscious? Or merely unresponsive? Would breaking three of his ribs be all right, but a fourth broken rib be too excessive? Would it be all right with everyone if the rapist merely suffered a concussion, or should he sustain actual permanent brain damage from a closed head injury? Should the beating be limited to just what the man brought with him, or could he go get a bat or a club once the rapist was sufficiently incapacitated? Does it make a difference that the rapist is 18 years old, or could the same beating be administered without penalty if this had happened a few months earlier, when he was only 17? Is it okay to beat a rapist unconscious, but not a thief or a burglar? What if the person who catches the rapist doesn't want to beat him unconscious? Is that person less of a citizen? Should he be liable to criminal charges for insufficient zeal for the law?

I some other wonderings, but for now I'm just trying to ascertain how far each of us is authorized to take the law into our own hands?

[unreadierLizard]

41. lol

Do you think that a child molester should be given a stern talking to?

[gratuitous]

46. So, those are the only choices?

Beat him unconscious or deliver a stern lecture? What an unimaginative, binary, colorless world folks posit. And if someone isn't in favor of beating the man senseless, the only alternative is a stern talking to. What a truly idiotic thing to say.

[Lancero]

48. Ok then

Tell us, what YOU would have done if you walked in on someone raping a child? (Or, if you have one, your child)

What would you do?

Would you use force to defend the child?
Would you say "please, stop raping the child" and hope this guy decides to listen?
Would you walk away, and leave the child to the mercys of the rapist?
Would you call the police, and let the rape continue for however long it would take the police to arrive?
Or would you come up with something else?

You take offense with how this person decided to stop a rape - So tell us, how would you stop a rape?

[gratuitous]

50. Thanks

But I'll decline yet another invitation to put words in my mouth from the folks celebrating one man beating another senseless. You and others in this thread apparently think there are two and only two options: Walk away or beat the man senseless. I hope you didn't hurt your brain actually thinking about the situation, no matter how little, to come up with three variations on the binary theme.

But what does it matter, anyway? Everyone's (well, almost everyone) is very happy with the situation as it is: The rapist got beaten unconscious. Why are people so touchy that one person less than everyone is happy about that? It's almost as if there was something else in play, but what could it be???

[Lancero]

51. Basic psychological responce, fight or flight.

When faced with a event like this, basic psychology dictates one of the two.

But if you say that their were other options, well... enlighten us as to what other options are available for stopping a rape in progress.

[LanternWaste]

52. I'd imagine that it's fully legal to subdue by any means necessary the individual who is abusing

"but for now I'm just trying to ascertain how far each of us is authorized to take the law into our own hands?"

I'd imagine that it's fully legal to subdue by any means necessary the individual who is abusing one or more members of your family whilst a guest in your home. However, I'd also think that the sincere and honest inquiry would be scouring the relevant case law themselves rather than complaining about how others may disagree with their editorial. So what do I know...?

[moriah]

57. From the mugshot, there's a BIG old gooseegg on the 18-year-old's jaw.

Right over that happy nerve plexus that tends to render people unconscious when hit.

The guy stopped himself once the molester was unconscious. As I said when I shared this on FB, I admire his restraint.

[Aerows]

9. Hope he didn't hurt his hand

or his foot while taking out the trash.

[flvegan]

39. Awesome! DU's wanna-be armchair lawyers are out in force for the defense

of the alleged abuser.

Motherfucker is lucky to still be breathing here under 776.

[Hugabear]

54. I woudln't say they're "out in force"

Seems to be primarily one person who had a major problem with this, with perhaps a couple more reserving judgment.

[derby378]

43. Justice. (n/t)

[True Earthling]

58. Dad Admits Son Stopped Him From Killing Alleged Abuser

The Florida dad who made headlines when he pummeled an 18-year-old man who was allegedly molesting his 11-year-old son now admits he intended to kill the suspect — but his son stopped him. The father, who is not being identified to shield his son, beat the alleged molester, Raymond Frolander to a bloody pulp knocking him out. Then he called the cops and said, "I just walked in and found a grown man molesting (my child), and I got him in a bloody puddle for you right now, officer," he told NBC Orlando affiliate WESH late Monday.

The father thinks that Frolander's bloody mug is getting too much publicity and wants the world to know it's his son who is the hero. "My son saved Raymond. Raymond was motionless on our floor. I went to the kitchen to grab a butcher knife and my son stopped me. My son came in front of me and saved his attacker's life," he said. Frolander remains behind bars without bond on charges of sexual battery. The father wasn't charged.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dad-admits-son-stopped-him-killing-alleged-abuser-n162156

[bigwillq]

59. I support whatever action the father thought was justified

I probably would've killed the rapist.

[Douglas Carpenter]

60. no matter what the crime is - it is best not to find out what actually happened or to ask questions

Last edited Tue Jul 22, 2014, 10:17 PM - Edit history (3)

but to just 100% support pounding the crap out of whoever is accused of doing something wrong. Our society would be so much better if we didn't waist time on such nonsense as finding out specifically what supposed to have happened or asking what was the deal with this 18-year old kid? - are there other things to this story we don't know? - Screw that crap!! - Just deal justice on the spot - no questions asked. Perhaps that old military saying, "kill them all - let God sort them out" is the rule of civil society that we really must live by. It's good to see liberalism evolve.