The MH17 crash site needs to be opened NOW. The treatment of the site is an abomination.

[Are_grits_groceries]

@KiritRadia: (ABC news Moscow correspondent on scene)
Anywhere else, a plane crash site would be roped off & crawling w investigators. Not here. Just us, rebels, & local emergency workers #MH17

@KiritRadia:
Maybe the light is better this morning, maybe we dare look more this time, but we're seeing body parts everywhere today. Horrific. #MH17

There needs to be a massive effort to properly recover the bodies and the property at the least. It CANNOT be done by the local 'government.' A tragedy of this size requires a response by groups that handle these events.

The plane debris also needs to be collected quickly and in place in order to reconstruct the event. There are trained groups that also carry this out. There is no telling what is being removed by accident or on purpose.

It is beyond the pale that enough trained people are not allowed in to take care of the bodies. They rained down on villages and at least one crashed through a roof. I have no idea about the reports of the locals doing any looting. That is who will be blamed though. Convenient.

There were reports that locals were gathering passports and other effects into piles. Some are trying to help. I can imagine that this has been traumatizing for many of them. If there are those looting, the material should be found and returned.

While people argue about who shot the plane down, there is one irrefutable fact. The rebels are in control of the site and are allowing few people in. This is squarely on their heads. It is a barbaric way to respond to the deaths of hundreds of people and beyond traumatizing for their families to know how little is being done.

So go ahead and defend these actions by the rebels. I'm sure some will. I want to know who shot it down. If it came from Ukrainian forces, the rebels, or some other unknown entity then so be it.

IMMEDIATELY ALLOW THE BODIES TO BE TREATED RESPECTFULLY AND IN ACCORD WITH SET PROCEDURES TO DO SO.

@obk: (Moscow news correspondent from the Netherlands)
This probably hurts the most. In between the debris in the field.

[BeyondGeography]

2. It's about the bodies

Those who killed 298 people are preventing the victims from being identified and returned to their families in a timely manner, while looters can steal their personal effects. You left that part out there, machiavelli.

The people who did this are adding to the suffering exponentially with each passing hour and carving a unique place in history for themselves as the lowest form of refuse. They might not care, but Putin should since he enabled then and will quickly become the face of this monstrosity.

[Are_grits_groceries]

7. I am addressing the collection of the bodies and the personal affects.

You are the one yammering about blame and who did what. That is not my primary concern. As far as empathy according to bias, you seem to have dropped in without reading the brazillion posts on the Ukraine.

I don't care whose plane it was or who was aboard, I would have the exact same response.

War is hell and although others pretend otherwise, everybody is fair game which comes to be called "collateral damage."

I have no solution to the Ukrainian crisis. I would express it if I had a thought.

I do believe those mooks on BOTH sides can stop their bloody fighting and allow those who were killed in this tragedy to be collected.

You seem to be suddenly dropping in to DU to suddenly express your opinions. I think that you can spare the lectures about what we in the West do and do not realize especially here on DU.

[mainer]

9. That same air route was used by hundreds of flights a day

Your anger at Malaysia Air is misplaced. It was the same route taken by many major airlines -- including KLM.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/17/a-real-time-picture-of-how-flights-are-now-avoiding-ukrainian-airspace/

"The European Cockpit Association, which represents pilots, released a statement saying that the route MH17 had taken was the most common one for flights from Europe to Southeast Asia."

[Are_grits_groceries]

11. I have expressed NO anger at Malaysia Air.

Please point out where I expressed that. As far as I know, it was another tragedy for that star-crossed company.

[mainer]

13. I was responding to the post above yours

where this quote appears: "if it were my family I would actually be more angry at the airline for having flown into a warzone. "

[mainer]

30. Do you routinely quiz airlines as to their routes?

That's the problem with trying to be wary. How can the consumer ever know? And does it actually mean anything?

Respected airlines KLM, Lufthansa, and Singapore Airlines routinely flew that route, while Garuda and China Airlines had avoided that route. Does that mean that Garuda is a safer airline than Lufthansa? Does that mean you'll favor flying Garuda over Singapore Airlines?

[Blue_Tires]

33. A slight bit of research will tell you

MH17 used that corridor because of weather concerns on their planned route...

So spare me the "no reason" silliness...

[BeyondGeography]

12. If you were a victim's family member

you'd be better off freezing your loved one's credit cards and cellphone accounts right now than pondering the airline's culpability. That's the unfortunate reality, but thanks for the education.

[Are_grits_groceries]

3. The OSCE has just now been let in.

This is from tweets of reporters on the scene.
@shelomovskiy: Osce monitors finally made it to the main crash side of #mh17 to find out there's not much to monitor

As far as trauma, I said it had to further traumatize the locals. AND I am not accusing them of looting. That remains to be seen. I do know they have been traumatized by the war, but that is no excuse for allowing further traumatizing of the families whose bodies are in the fields.

I have no doubt that all the evidence can't be removed, but there can be specific things that would matter a lot.

If the rebels want to be really useful, they could form a cordon to keep others out such as the locals.
Then they could provide protection for those who are working.

The war zone is an excuse. I seriously doubt if anybody really wants to visit more destruction on that area. In addition, the people who would be coming in are well aware of the risks. They aren't naively going to be going in.

You can continue to offer excuses. I don't think it's simple, but it should be a hell of a easier than it is.
I believe little of what I read in the MSM. I too can read.

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. Which professional groups?

I've seen reports that investigators are collecting in Kiev, hoping to go in, but nothing about anyone apart from local police/emergency workers and volunteers, the OSCE, and the armed militia who have fired the occasional warnign shot at people they don't like.

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. Are you sure? All I can find is Donetsk saying they *will* let the IAC in

“We’re highly interested in an unbiased and full investigation and are prepared to give unrestricted access to the spot of the crash for experts of the CIS Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC),” the Donetsk Republic’s Prime Minister Alexander Borodai said.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741405

[TexasProgresive]

4. Yes that would be the right thing to happen

but since the crash site is in the control of rebel forces who perhaps find it in their interests to not allow a competent investigation what would you have happen. The Ukrainian forces have been unable to bring this area under governmental control and the Russians may be complicit in the missile strike, so no help there. So what is left- a massive offensive by NATO?

[Are_grits_groceries]

10. I have heard general remarks from leaders

demanding justice, etc. if Ukraine would allow it, amass groups ready to help with at the scene. Then let the EU and others put pressure on Putin and others.
It may very well be a useless maneuver, but it may work.
And no, I don't believe that NATO needs to fight anybody.

Call on the UN Blue Helmets to provide security if that would be allowed.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

6. On Up w/ Kornacki just now,

they said there were reports victims' credit cards were being used in the area. Didn't say by whom, and I doubt they'll ever find out.

[Are_grits_groceries]

8. Who has proven that?

It was said by a rebel leader on the scene pointing the finger at locals. I am not doubting that it could be happening, but the rebels are trying to blame the locals for a lot. This is a convenient cover for what they might be doing.
The locals may have done it, but who has proven it.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

14. I didn't say WHO had done it, and neither has Kornacki.

The people who would know for certain are simply those with access to the databases of the credit card companies or the individual credit card accounts of those who died. Give me 5 minutes with the appropriate databases, and I could tell you whether or not any given credit card has been used around there post-crash.

But I was not saying 'the locals have done it' or 'the rebels have done it'. Just that there are reports the cards have been used, not who supposedly used them.

[BeyondGeography]

15. Some looting anecdotes here

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5601703

Sketchy, but, per your thread title, the treatment of the site is an abomination. Not unreasonable at all to assume that looting has been one of the results.

[sufrommich]

17. Here's a twitter feed to a guy at the crash site.

It's chaos.

https://twitter.com/maxseddon

[winstars]

28. This is a great (horrible) Twitter feed. Rings true but terrible news, everything wrong is happening

[All_Corners]

19. Ask Putin...

[Baclava]

21. They are just leaving the bodies to rot in an open field

Horrific

[Baclava]

29. So they are now shoveling body parts and gutpiles into bags to rot along the side of the road

...and doing their own looting of bodies...your hero "rebel" fighters are a swell bunch