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Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 09:43 PM Jul 2014

German Protesters Chant 'Gas the Jews'

Berlin authorities have ordered pro-Gaza demonstrators to stop chanting anti-semitic messages, after protesters were reportedly heard shouting 'Gas the Jews'.

Sizeable anti-Israel rallies have been held in the German capital, with people taking to the streets allegedly chanting anti-semitic slogans. Some of the demonstrations are said to be organised by Muslim immigrants and neo-Nazi groups.

The Berlin authorities are also investigating anti-semitic behaviour by a radical Imam in the city, after a video uploaded by Israeli daily Haaretz showed an Imam calling for the obliteration of Jews, telling his followers to "kill them to the very last one".

Condemning the anti-semitism, Dieter Graumann, president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, was quoted by AFP as saying: "We are currently experiencing in this country an explosion of evil and violent hatred of Jews, which shocks and dismays all of us.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/israel-gaza-crisis-german-protesters-chant-gas-jews-anti-israel-rallies-1457714

88 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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German Protesters Chant 'Gas the Jews' (Original Post) Cali_Democrat Jul 2014 OP
People can protest without using this offensive malaise Jul 2014 #1
Graumann is president of the central counsel of Jews in Germany Cali_Democrat Jul 2014 #6
Think about what you just asked me n/t malaise Jul 2014 #86
Sickening. moriah Jul 2014 #2
They do. defacto7 Jul 2014 #3
That's what I thought, too. Just horrible... Rhiannon12866 Jul 2014 #25
They have laws to punish hate speech. Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #82
Are we sure these are Germans? aint_no_life_nowhere Jul 2014 #4
I imagine it's about hatred breeding hatred. n/t Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #7
Many years ago I learned to pretty much Jenoch Jul 2014 #8
pretty sure most of them are immigrants JI7 Jul 2014 #10
I'm no expert, but I do know the far right has been gaining strength in much of Western Europe nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #13
Anti-Semitism in Europe isn't a problem just on the Right. nt Codeine Jul 2014 #84
True. But the rise of the exreme right sure as hell doesn't help matters. n/t nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #85
Apparently both Islamist and Neo-Nazi groups are involved LeftishBrit Jul 2014 #30
That is weird since the far-right in Europe hates Muslims as much or more than Jews in many pampango Jul 2014 #79
Exactly! LeftishBrit Jul 2014 #80
So goes the saying, the enemy of my enemy is my friend SummerSnow Jul 2014 #87
The photo in the article Quantess Jul 2014 #34
Germans only have blonde hair? RandiFan1290 Jul 2014 #54
Did I say that? No. Quantess Jul 2014 #61
You are the only one that mentioned hair color RandiFan1290 Jul 2014 #62
It was a response to a post wondering if these are Germans Quantess Jul 2014 #66
People can be born in Germany and not have blonde hair RandiFan1290 Jul 2014 #67
My comment is odd? Okay, then. I will explain it to you. Quantess Jul 2014 #69
Why would you assume people with dark hair RandiFan1290 Jul 2014 #70
Look, I have better things to do. Quantess Jul 2014 #74
mmhmm RandiFan1290 Jul 2014 #75
What do you think? Do they look like nazis to you? Quantess Jul 2014 #77
Mostly Arab immigrants, it would appear reorg Jul 2014 #73
Deplorable. Rex Jul 2014 #5
While I think Israel is wrong in this situation Bettie Jul 2014 #9
+1000000 nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #14
But..but..but... Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #11
+1000 JDPriestly Jul 2014 #48
Thanks for posting. Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #12
I don't give a shit what "side" you're on, this is not acceptable rhetoric from *any* human being. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #15
It is as common and predicatable as the rising of the sun in the east. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #16
Who knows which came first, their anti-Semitism or their extreme anti-Israel sentiments - nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #17
Sometimes it is both. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #18
I didn't mean to imply that it does matter. Of course it doesn't. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #20
Good to know. I agree. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #21
If they mean "outrage" at the Israeli gov't, then that's perfectly understandable (RE: killing nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #22
The article was about the rising anti-Semitism in Europe. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #23
As I said, blaming the Jewish people in general for the Gaza situation is bullshit. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #26
Then we agree. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #32
Bigotry is bigotry, period. And it's not okay. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #33
See?! (below) Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #39
"The powerful party painting itself as the victim" is what this man said. Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #35
A swing and a miss. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #36
You're welcome. n/t Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #38
Exactly, the hatred of all Jews is illogical. Yet somehow an entire people is to blame nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #40
And yet... Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #41
If anything, Israeli policy is just a convenient excuse for the existing anti-Semitism in Germany nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #43
It seems to be "convenient" for quite a few. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #44
Israel isn't to blame for the situation in Germany or France. Like I said, it's just an excuse nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #45
Yes, I know what you said. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #47
There is nothing contradictory about both statements, hatred doesn't just bring anti-semitism out Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #49
Yes there is. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #50
The emotion of hatred; is not limited to the Jews, it's universal, has no boundaries and feeds on Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #53
That sentence is completely logical. Your strawman argument isn't. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #55
Yes that paragaph is illogical and both can be true, Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #56
No, your comment is an excuse. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #58
What do you believe Holocaust Survivor Reuven Moskovitz was/is afraid of? I answered your question Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #59
How is it relevant? Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #60
How can that be confusing things when one of the chief victims from anti-Semitism, a Holocaust Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #65
He has every right to be fearful of Israeli policy. Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #71
Yes but Nigeria and Uganda aren't the home of his faith, created because of the Holocaust. Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #78
I agree there should be no connection or equivalence drawn between the two - that is too much nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #57
It isn't just coming out into the open, Netanyahu's policies feed the hatred, spreading it anew and Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #46
To me that seems uncomfortably close to drawing an equivalency between Israel's actions nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #68
There is no doubt that anti-Semitism or hatred of Jews already exists but there is also Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #72
I agree, nomorenomore there is no way to rationalize hatred, but it can be reduced and I believe Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #42
'Gas the Jews' is not an expression of outrage at the Israeli government! LeftishBrit Jul 2014 #28
That's not what I was referring to. See post #15 for my take on the OP. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #31
Thanks - I see now what you're referring to - good post! LeftishBrit Jul 2014 #64
What they don't seem to get leftynyc Jul 2014 #51
Yup! Behind the Aegis Jul 2014 #52
I come from the same side of it Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #24
It's like they're unable to distinguish between the Jewish individuals who govern Israel nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #27
Agree! LeftishBrit Jul 2014 #63
This is disgusting and unacceptable. smirkymonkey Jul 2014 #19
That is truly awful LeftishBrit Jul 2014 #29
No excuse for this crap, period n/t eridani Jul 2014 #37
These protestors should be ashamed of themselves CountAllVotes Jul 2014 #76
Disgusting. Too much hate in the world. morningfog Jul 2014 #81
Who could have predicted....? No rhetorical hair-splitting for Germans. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #83
Can Germany deport the youtube, "radical Imam in the city" back to his homeland? Sunlei Jul 2014 #88

malaise

(268,980 posts)
1. People can protest without using this offensive
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 09:59 PM
Jul 2014

language. It is gross.
Has Graumann condemned the slaughter in Gaza?

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
6. Graumann is president of the central counsel of Jews in Germany
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 11:13 PM
Jul 2014

Why should he have to condemn what's happening in Gaza?

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
4. Are we sure these are Germans?
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 10:33 PM
Jul 2014

I mean maybe they are. I don't know for sure. But a crowd yelling "gas the Jews" within Germany immediately conjures up visions of swastikas sieg heiling before Uncle Adolph. Could these be guest workers from Turkey or Turkish permanent residents of which there are many in Germany and not Germans? I understand from another story published at DU today there was a crowd of Turks rushing a football field to try to beat up an Israeli team in nearby Austria, supposedly egged on by a Turkish newspaper article.. I'm not trying to make a statement against immigrants in Germany but just hoping for some transparency and a better understanding of what this is about. Is this about German Aryan Nazi ideology resurfacing in Europe or about ethnic friction between Middle Easterners and Israelis, a transplantation of the Arab/Islamic and Israeli/Jewish conflict to Europe?

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
8. Many years ago I learned to pretty much
Thu Jul 24, 2014, 11:38 PM
Jul 2014

ignore facts in headlines. The people who write news stories, and even opinion pieces such as columns, do not write the headlines. Editors who seemingly do not actually read the pieces write the headlines.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
13. I'm no expert, but I do know the far right has been gaining strength in much of Western Europe
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:37 AM
Jul 2014

for a while now, with a resurgence, at least in some parts of society, of all that entails - racism/anti-Semitism, homophobia, "traditional" sexism, and an all-around reactionary worldview.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
79. That is weird since the far-right in Europe hates Muslims as much or more than Jews in many
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:51 AM
Jul 2014

countries. I suppose the far-right will take action against either group, regardless of its "bedfellows", then turn around and protest against the same "bedfellows" the next day.

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
66. It was a response to a post wondering if these are Germans
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:13 AM
Jul 2014

or if they are people from somewhere else. They could of course be german citizens who have immigrated from somewhere else. I'm just commenting on what I see in the photo. What point are you trying to make?

RandiFan1290

(6,232 posts)
67. People can be born in Germany and not have blonde hair
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:16 AM
Jul 2014

They don't have to be immigrants. It's not too hard to understand why your comment was so odd.

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
69. My comment is odd? Okay, then. I will explain it to you.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:24 AM
Jul 2014

When I cicked on the link (and I am sure others had the same ideas as me) I was curious to see whether these are white supremacists, or not. Looking at the photo, I would say that, no, these are not white supremacists.

That's really not a difficult concept, considering history.

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
74. Look, I have better things to do.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:32 AM
Jul 2014

To my eyes, the people in the crowd appear to be of middle eastern descent. Are you like Stephen Colbert who can't see color? This is getting ridiculous. I'm done, here.

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
77. What do you think? Do they look like nazis to you?
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:42 AM
Jul 2014

I'm pretty sure Hitler would have rounded those guys up along with the jews, and sent them to concentration camps. See the connnection I am making to Germany?

Anyway, you're pretty funny.

reorg

(3,317 posts)
73. Mostly Arab immigrants, it would appear
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:30 AM
Jul 2014

from the picture in the linked article in the OP.

I think this is mostly about a demonstration in Berlin on 17 July, although there were similar ones in other cities.

You can find some videos documenting the crowd and the chants here:



Young and aggressive, mostly male Arabs chanting provocative rhymes with slurs such as "pigs" (e.g. "Netanyahu, cowardly pig, come out and fight alone&quot and denunciations like "Zionists are fascists". The Nazi reference in the OP ("gas the Jews&quot is not among the documented chants, nor are any other apparent (neo-)Nazi references.

In other videos at the same YouTube channel you can see another demonstration almost exclusively attended by females and children, here the prevailing topic in the chanted rhymes seems to be "child killer" ("our children want to live, but Israel is against it"; "is the world dumb and mute, Israel kills children&quot .

Bettie

(16,101 posts)
9. While I think Israel is wrong in this situation
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 12:00 AM
Jul 2014

This is unacceptable.

There are better ways to protest. This just demeans those who say it.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
14. +1000000
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:39 AM
Jul 2014

They only make the death and destruction wrought by Israeli government policy look more righteous than it is.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
11. But..but..but...
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 01:46 AM
Jul 2014

I find it interesting how these types of threads go ignored or are downplayed in a number of ways (did so and so condemn such and such, are you sure it was about Gaza?, is it really that bad? 9-11?! and so on...)

Some things really never change.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
48. +1000
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:09 AM
Jul 2014

People don't know the history of the Holocaust and don't understand why Israel exists. It's just ignorance. They do not understand why Israel defends itself so strongly.

It is amazing to me that people can understand the need for sanctuaries for, say endangered Panda Bears or even small crawling animals in the desert, but do not understand the need for sanctuaries for people who have been persecuted for centuries, maybe way back to the sacking of Rome in around 70 a.d.

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
12. Thanks for posting.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:29 AM
Jul 2014

The rise in anti-semitism is troubling. I fear it is growing here (US) also, and remaining silent, not challenging it allows it to grow.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
15. I don't give a shit what "side" you're on, this is not acceptable rhetoric from *any* human being.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:40 AM
Jul 2014

To say it's disgusting and dehumanizing would be a massive understatement.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
16. It is as common and predicatable as the rising of the sun in the east.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:45 AM
Jul 2014

Just as predictable are the minimizations and misdirections given when threads like this emerge. This was a comment on a list of recent anti-Semitic attacks:

Indeed...

nothing to see there.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
17. Who knows which came first, their anti-Semitism or their extreme anti-Israel sentiments -
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:50 AM
Jul 2014

but either way, posts like the one you quoted are completely unacceptable. And I say that as someone who's anything but a fan of Israeli gov't and military policy.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
18. Sometimes it is both.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:51 AM
Jul 2014

And does it really matter what came first?

Just screaming Anti-Semitism is a convenient self-serving response - this is a reaction to the genocide taking place in Gaza in much the same way as the world turned on the Nazis for the horrific genocide of European Jews.


This is the treatment on threads about anti-Semitism.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
20. I didn't mean to imply that it does matter. Of course it doesn't.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:56 AM
Jul 2014

And blaming all Jews, worldwide, for Israeli policy toward the Palestinians, is not only unjustified but makes no logical sense. Somewhat like the threads on rape culture, white privilege, police brutality, and (sometimes) poverty, I'm honestly embarrassed by some of my purported fellow liberals.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
21. Good to know. I agree.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:03 AM
Jul 2014

But, like I said, and as I have shown, this is a reality Jews face. It is interesting you mentioned a few topics where when those topics are challenged, it is usually just a few people, the rest go after the ones making the challenges, but when it comes to anti-Semitism, suddenly, Jews aren't given the respect and the numbers are reversed in the same percentage but instead of being supportive, it is about telling us what it is and isn't.

But, it isn't interesting as you posted it shouldn't matter, I found this (in regards to rising anti-Semitism in Europe):

Maybe their outrage is about IDF slaughter of children.

What is it now. 160 + children killed by IDF.
Maybe look to the cause of the outrage


The rising sun!

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
22. If they mean "outrage" at the Israeli gov't, then that's perfectly understandable (RE: killing
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:08 AM
Jul 2014

of civilians. If it's "outrage" at Jews in general, then that's just bigoted bullshit.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
23. The article was about the rising anti-Semitism in Europe.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:13 AM
Jul 2014

The response implies the Jews should examine their behavior, don't you think? Article is about Jews being afraid of anti-Semitism due to the Gaza protests turning violent against Jews and the poster remarks "Maybe look to the cause of the outrage". How is that relevant?

ETA: Or perhaps it indicates that the anti-Semitism is justifiable or excusable.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
26. As I said, blaming the Jewish people in general for the Gaza situation is bullshit.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:27 AM
Jul 2014

And anyone who tries to rationalize that kind of anti-Semitism is a fucking asshole, full stop.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
32. Then we agree.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:41 AM
Jul 2014

I am just sick of those trying to rationalize anti-Semitism here by claiming "it's Israel's fault", "Jews should speak out against Israel", "anti-Semitism is just convenient", "stop acting like the victims", "it doesn't compare to the real issue", "the Holocaust isn't a free pass", should I go on?

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
33. Bigotry is bigotry, period. And it's not okay.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:45 AM
Jul 2014

Not to mention that the two biggest purveyors of anti-Semitism in Europe are the extreme right and Muslim fundamentalists. Exactly the sort of people we progressives should be resisting at every turn.

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
35. "The powerful party painting itself as the victim" is what this man said.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:02 AM
Jul 2014


http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/07/22/beautiful_dream_of_israel_has_become_a_nightmare.html

Beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare



By: Gabor Maté Published on Tue Jul 22 2014

As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the Nazi genocide, I was for years haunted by a question resounding in my brain with such force that sometimes my head would spin: “How was it possible? How could the world have let such horrors happen?”

It was a naïve question, that of a child. I know better now: such is reality. Whether in Vietnam or Rwanda or Syria, humanity stands by either complicitly or unconsciously or helplessly, as it always does. In Gaza today we find ways of justifying the bombing of hospitals, the annihilation of families at dinner, the killing of pre-adolescents playing soccer on a beach.


In Israel-Palestine the powerful party has succeeded in painting itself as the victim, while the ones being killed and maimed become the perpetrators. “They don’t care about life,” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says, abetted by the Obamas and Harpers of this world, “we do.” Netanyahu, you who with surgical precision slaughter innocents, the young and the old, you who have cruelly blockaded Gaza for years, starving it of necessities, you who deprive Palestinians of more and more of their land, their water, their crops, their trees — you care about life?


(snip)


Israel wants peace? Perhaps, but as the veteran Israeli journalist Gideon Levy has pointed out, it does not want a just peace. Occupation and creeping annexation, an inhumane blockade, the destruction of olive groves, the arbitrary imprisonment of thousands, torture, daily humiliation of civilians, house demolitions: these are not policies compatible with any desire for a just peace. In Tel Aviv Gideon Levy now moves around with a bodyguard, the price of speaking the truth.

(snip)



There is much more on the link.

There is no justification for yelling "Gas the jews" in Germany, France or anywhere else it's just hatred but that hatred is fed by Netanyahu's apparent hatred for the Palestinians as his actions clearly demonstrate.

The emotion of hatred doesn't use logic it just feeds on itself.





Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
36. A swing and a miss.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:07 AM
Jul 2014

I was talking about the posters who "excuse" anti-Semitism because no Jews have been killed in protests. It is "just name calling." But, thank you for your example.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
40. Exactly, the hatred of all Jews is illogical. Yet somehow an entire people is to blame
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:36 AM
Jul 2014

for the admittedly terrible policies of the Israel government. And I'm sorry, but there is no way to even remotely rationalize something like "Gas the Jews!"

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
41. And yet...
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:39 AM
Jul 2014

...Israel is still blamed. How is it logical to blame the actions of Israel for anti-Semitism against Jews in Germany?

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
43. If anything, Israeli policy is just a convenient excuse for the existing anti-Semitism in Germany
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:48 AM
Jul 2014

(and other countries) to come out into the open.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
44. It seems to be "convenient" for quite a few.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:54 AM
Jul 2014

Not only are the attackers to blame, but so is Israel. Do you not see that as problematic?

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
45. Israel isn't to blame for the situation in Germany or France. Like I said, it's just an excuse
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:57 AM
Jul 2014

used by people who are already bigots to begin with.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
47. Yes, I know what you said.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:05 AM
Jul 2014

I also know what I see. "'Gas the Jews' is wrong but Israel needs to change." Do you really not see a statement like that is blaming anti-Semitism on the perpetrators and Israel?! It is an excuse, not a reason!

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
49. There is nothing contradictory about both statements, hatred doesn't just bring anti-semitism out
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:11 AM
Jul 2014

of the closet, it spreads that kind of poison anew.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
50. Yes there is.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:13 AM
Jul 2014
The rights and wrongs of the conflict between Israel and Hamas, and the responsibility for death and suffering in Gaza, are totally immaterial to this outburst of Europe’s oldest hatred and shouldn’t be debated in the same context. Anyone who attempts to deal with both issues in the same breath is trivializing and excusing hatred of Jews. There is no justification whatsoever in holding a protest, even a peaceful one, over events in the Middle East outside a synagogue. A few of Palestine’s advocates have rightly spoken out against this, while many who have remained silent (one despicable American website tried to blame French Jews) have shamed themselves as apologists for anti-Semitism and shamed those who honorably stand up for the Palestinians without being tainted with racism.

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/jerusalem-babylon/.premium-1.607109

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
53. The emotion of hatred; is not limited to the Jews, it's universal, has no boundaries and feeds on
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:30 AM
Jul 2014

itself.



Hatred in its old and new manifestations is undoubtedly present, but that’s only a part of the picture.



The sentence in the paragraph you posted is illogical, one can't eliminate context in regards to human interaction. By that sentence if every Palestinian were massacred by the Netanyahu government, it should be immaterial on how human emotions come into play.



The rights and wrongs of the conflict between Israel and Hamas, and the responsibility for death and suffering in Gaza, are totally immaterial to this outburst of Europe’s oldest hatred and shouldn’t be debated in the same context. Anyone who attempts to deal with both issues in the same breath is trivializing and excusing hatred of Jews. There is no justification whatsoever in holding a protest, even a peaceful one, over events in the Middle East outside a synagogue. A few of Palestine’s advocates have rightly spoken out against this, while many who have remained silent (one despicable American website tried to blame French Jews) have shamed themselves as apologists for anti-Semitism and shamed those who honorably stand up for the Palestinians without being tainted with racism.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
55. That sentence is completely logical. Your strawman argument isn't.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:39 AM
Jul 2014
Hatred in its old and new manifestations is undoubtedly present, but that’s only a part of the picture.


That refers to a specific "hatred", you know, the topic, anti-Semitism.

The sentence in the paragraph you posted is illogical, one can't eliminate context in regards to human interaction. By that sentence if every Palestinian were massacred by the Netanyahu government, it should be immaterial on how human emotions come into play.


Um, it is pretty obvious what that means, though you seemingly missed it. Here, let me help you:

The rights and wrongs of the conflict between Israel and Hamas, and the responsibility for death and suffering in Gaza, are totally immaterial to this outburst of Europe’s oldest hatred and shouldn’t be debated in the same context. Anyone who attempts to deal with both issues in the same breath is trivializing and excusing hatred of Jews. There is no justification whatsoever in holding a protest, even a peaceful one, over events in the Middle East outside a synagogue. A few of Palestine’s advocates have rightly spoken out against this, while many who have remained silent (one despicable American website tried to blame French Jews) have shamed themselves as apologists for anti-Semitism and shamed those who honorably stand up for the Palestinians without being tainted with racism.


Understand now? Or still willing to claim "the anti-Semites chanting "Gas the Jews" is "wrong," but Israel is also to blame?"

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
56. Yes that paragaph is illogical and both can be true,
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:53 AM
Jul 2014

"the anti-Semites chanting "Gas the Jews" is "wrong," but Netanyahu's hate filled policies are a contributing factor not just by bringing anti-Semites out of the closet but breeding new ones.

What do you believe Holocaust Survivor Reuven Moskovitz was/is afraid of?

He knows evil having seen it firsthand and he's afraid that Israel under Netanyahu can/will become what the Jewish People hate the most.

Read the last paragraph on his pic.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
58. No, your comment is an excuse.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:56 AM
Jul 2014

Contributing factor or not, it does NOT excuse the actions of the one's committing the action. And, once again, you demonstrate my point.

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
59. What do you believe Holocaust Survivor Reuven Moskovitz was/is afraid of? I answered your question
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:01 AM
Jul 2014

whether you agree with it or not.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
60. How is it relevant?
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:02 AM
Jul 2014

It is confusing different things. Anti-Semitism is the bane of the one committing the action NOT Israel, not other Jews, not some internet meme!

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
65. How can that be confusing things when one of the chief victims from anti-Semitism, a Holocaust
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:13 AM
Jul 2014

survivor fears the hateful policies of Netanyahu's Israel? His opinion is just an "Internet meme?"

To answer your question for every action there's a reaction, these riots in France and Germany didn't just spring up in a vacuum, they grew and intensified after Israel started bombarding the Palestinians in Gaza.

Anti-Semitism doesn't stick with one person it spreads and current events most certainly affect that dynamic either waxing or waning it, you can't separate world events and attitudes as if there is no correlation.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
71. He has every right to be fearful of Israeli policy.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:28 AM
Jul 2014

Just as he has the right to fearful of the policies in Nigeria or Uganda.

To answer your question for every action there's a reaction, these riots in France and Germany didn't just spring up in a vacuum, they grew and intensified after Israel started bombarding the Palestinians in Gaza.


And? That still doesn't excuse the actions taken (which you claim are bad), nor does it excuse blaming Israel. You don't seem to understand this. After 9/11, a number of Muslims (or those thought to be) were attacked. Hate crimes against Muslims rose by over 400%. That was a "reaction" to the terrorist attacks. HOWEVER, all Muslims (especially American Muslims) were NOT to blame. To make it even more clear....NO ONE said the anti-Semitism occurred in a vacuum, that is your strawman, what was said it isn't right to blame Jews for the actions of Israel! These assholes simply used the actions of Israel as a flashpoint, and are getting cover by those making excuses for their actions!

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
78. Yes but Nigeria and Uganda aren't the home of his faith, created because of the Holocaust.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:44 AM
Jul 2014

There is no excuse for either action anti-Semitism or Netanyahu's hate filled policies but they feed on one another.

That's not an excuse, that's reality.

You made my point with your paragraph, it was never right to blame all the Muslims after 9/11, and there was no excuse for either action the attack of 9/11 or the hate crimes but there was a cause and effect, that's my point.


nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
57. I agree there should be no connection or equivalence drawn between the two - that is too much
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:53 AM
Jul 2014

like victim blaming. I apologize if my posts came across that way, that was not my intention.

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
46. It isn't just coming out into the open, Netanyahu's policies feed the hatred, spreading it anew and
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:03 AM
Jul 2014

endangering the nation of Israel to become what they hate the most.

On a thread by madfloridian.



nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
68. To me that seems uncomfortably close to drawing an equivalency between Israel's actions
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:19 AM
Jul 2014

and "Gas the Jews!" - as though this were some sort of tit for tat, rather than already existing hatred for Jews finding a convenient outlet at a time when the Israeli government is unpopular globally.

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
72. There is no doubt that anti-Semitism or hatred of Jews already exists but there is also
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 06:29 AM
Jul 2014

a cause and effect in regard to Israel's policies which can work to reduce, or intensify and more likely spread anti-Semitism to new generations of people that come to despise perceived hateful policies.

Israel as the only Jewish nation for better or worse is the global symbol of what Jews are to people around the world.

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
42. I agree, nomorenomore there is no way to rationalize hatred, but it can be reduced and I believe
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 04:44 AM
Jul 2014

over the long haul virtually eliminated and that's for Netanyahu's government to change their hate filled policies toward the Palestinians.

Hate only breeds hate, Love is the only dynamic that can beat hatred.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
31. That's not what I was referring to. See post #15 for my take on the OP.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:36 AM
Jul 2014

I was talking about the posts seemingly blaming all Jews for the Israeli gov't's policies. Because that seems to me a milder version of the same anti-Semitism expressed by the disgusting assholes in the OP.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
51. What they don't seem to get
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:21 AM
Jul 2014

is that the world did not turn on the nazis because of their treatment of Jews. In fact, many sent off their Jews to the camps without a second thought. It was hitler's expansionist policies that turned the world. Country after country, including the US, turned away the Jews trying to escape the nazis. And now they use Israel's defense of themselves to let loose their inner anti semite. It's disgusting.

Behind the Aegis

(53,956 posts)
52. Yup!
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 05:27 AM
Jul 2014

It is simply one more way to say "it is the Jew's fault!" Hell, look at the first post! The language is "offensive" but did the Jew speak out about Gaza?!

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
24. I come from the same side of it
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:14 AM
Jul 2014

I am not a fan or apologist of Israels domestic or foreign policy yet that I have been witnessing here and elsewhere is downright bizarre and troubling. What must it require of someone, to loath and resent Israel so much, to such the extent that even groups like Hamas are treated like the poor underdog in a back wards David vs Goliath battle. I was told by one poster that their position was because Israel is a right wing government, perhaps it disqualifies the anti-semitism in their eyes?

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
27. It's like they're unable to distinguish between the Jewish individuals who govern Israel
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:30 AM
Jul 2014

and are responsible for the killing of civilians in Gaza, and the millions of Jews who live all over the world. Either these folks were bigoted to begin with, or they're just so fucking simpleminded that "Israeli gov't bad = all Jews bad."

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
19. This is disgusting and unacceptable.
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 02:55 AM
Jul 2014

However I wonder if this is coming from the native German population (who should know better) or from the immigrant population. I think this makes a difference.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
88. Can Germany deport the youtube, "radical Imam in the city" back to his homeland?
Fri Jul 25, 2014, 09:53 AM
Jul 2014
and what about that fellow who went over to Germany 4 or 5 years ago, forget his name he was from Louisiana? ran for office a couple times. He traveled to Germany and close countries, preached his nazi crap and got arrested for preaching hate. Is he still there or did the USA accept his lame nazi American rearend back here?
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