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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGerman Protesters Chant 'Gas the Jews'
Berlin authorities have ordered pro-Gaza demonstrators to stop chanting anti-semitic messages, after protesters were reportedly heard shouting 'Gas the Jews'.
Sizeable anti-Israel rallies have been held in the German capital, with people taking to the streets allegedly chanting anti-semitic slogans. Some of the demonstrations are said to be organised by Muslim immigrants and neo-Nazi groups.
The Berlin authorities are also investigating anti-semitic behaviour by a radical Imam in the city, after a video uploaded by Israeli daily Haaretz showed an Imam calling for the obliteration of Jews, telling his followers to "kill them to the very last one".
Condemning the anti-semitism, Dieter Graumann, president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, was quoted by AFP as saying: "We are currently experiencing in this country an explosion of evil and violent hatred of Jews, which shocks and dismays all of us.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/israel-gaza-crisis-german-protesters-chant-gas-jews-anti-israel-rallies-1457714
malaise
(268,980 posts)language. It is gross.
Has Graumann condemned the slaughter in Gaza?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Why should he have to condemn what's happening in Gaza?
malaise
(268,980 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)In Germany, no less. I thought they had pretty strict laws that limited that type of speech.
and it looks like they're working on in.
Rhiannon12866
(205,320 posts)Tetris_Iguana
(501 posts)Important distinction.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)I mean maybe they are. I don't know for sure. But a crowd yelling "gas the Jews" within Germany immediately conjures up visions of swastikas sieg heiling before Uncle Adolph. Could these be guest workers from Turkey or Turkish permanent residents of which there are many in Germany and not Germans? I understand from another story published at DU today there was a crowd of Turks rushing a football field to try to beat up an Israeli team in nearby Austria, supposedly egged on by a Turkish newspaper article.. I'm not trying to make a statement against immigrants in Germany but just hoping for some transparency and a better understanding of what this is about. Is this about German Aryan Nazi ideology resurfacing in Europe or about ethnic friction between Middle Easterners and Israelis, a transplantation of the Arab/Islamic and Israeli/Jewish conflict to Europe?
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)ignore facts in headlines. The people who write news stories, and even opinion pieces such as columns, do not write the headlines. Editors who seemingly do not actually read the pieces write the headlines.
JI7
(89,249 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)for a while now, with a resurgence, at least in some parts of society, of all that entails - racism/anti-Semitism, homophobia, "traditional" sexism, and an all-around reactionary worldview.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)Strange bedfellows uniting in a common hate.
pampango
(24,692 posts)countries. I suppose the far-right will take action against either group, regardless of its "bedfellows", then turn around and protest against the same "bedfellows" the next day.
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)Quantess
(27,630 posts)You can judge for yourself. The only blonds I see are the police.
RandiFan1290
(6,232 posts)Strange...
Quantess
(27,630 posts)What impressions do you get by looking at that photo?
RandiFan1290
(6,232 posts)Why?
Quantess
(27,630 posts)or if they are people from somewhere else. They could of course be german citizens who have immigrated from somewhere else. I'm just commenting on what I see in the photo. What point are you trying to make?
RandiFan1290
(6,232 posts)They don't have to be immigrants. It's not too hard to understand why your comment was so odd.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)When I cicked on the link (and I am sure others had the same ideas as me) I was curious to see whether these are white supremacists, or not. Looking at the photo, I would say that, no, these are not white supremacists.
That's really not a difficult concept, considering history.
RandiFan1290
(6,232 posts)are immigrants?
Quantess
(27,630 posts)To my eyes, the people in the crowd appear to be of middle eastern descent. Are you like Stephen Colbert who can't see color? This is getting ridiculous. I'm done, here.
RandiFan1290
(6,232 posts)You shouldn't make assumptions just because of hair and skin color. Bye
Quantess
(27,630 posts)I'm pretty sure Hitler would have rounded those guys up along with the jews, and sent them to concentration camps. See the connnection I am making to Germany?
Anyway, you're pretty funny.
reorg
(3,317 posts)from the picture in the linked article in the OP.
I think this is mostly about a demonstration in Berlin on 17 July, although there were similar ones in other cities.
You can find some videos documenting the crowd and the chants here:
Young and aggressive, mostly male Arabs chanting provocative rhymes with slurs such as "pigs" (e.g. "Netanyahu, cowardly pig, come out and fight alone" and denunciations like "Zionists are fascists". The Nazi reference in the OP ("gas the Jews" is not among the documented chants, nor are any other apparent (neo-)Nazi references.
In other videos at the same YouTube channel you can see another demonstration almost exclusively attended by females and children, here the prevailing topic in the chanted rhymes seems to be "child killer" ("our children want to live, but Israel is against it"; "is the world dumb and mute, Israel kills children" .
Rex
(65,616 posts)A huge wave of hate. Sounds like the Tea party.
Bettie
(16,101 posts)This is unacceptable.
There are better ways to protest. This just demeans those who say it.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)They only make the death and destruction wrought by Israeli government policy look more righteous than it is.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)I find it interesting how these types of threads go ignored or are downplayed in a number of ways (did so and so condemn such and such, are you sure it was about Gaza?, is it really that bad? 9-11?! and so on...)
Some things really never change.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)People don't know the history of the Holocaust and don't understand why Israel exists. It's just ignorance. They do not understand why Israel defends itself so strongly.
It is amazing to me that people can understand the need for sanctuaries for, say endangered Panda Bears or even small crawling animals in the desert, but do not understand the need for sanctuaries for people who have been persecuted for centuries, maybe way back to the sacking of Rome in around 70 a.d.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)The rise in anti-semitism is troubling. I fear it is growing here (US) also, and remaining silent, not challenging it allows it to grow.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)To say it's disgusting and dehumanizing would be a massive understatement.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)Just as predictable are the minimizations and misdirections given when threads like this emerge. This was a comment on a list of recent anti-Semitic attacks:
Indeed...
nothing to see there.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)but either way, posts like the one you quoted are completely unacceptable. And I say that as someone who's anything but a fan of Israeli gov't and military policy.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)And does it really matter what came first?
Just screaming Anti-Semitism is a convenient self-serving response - this is a reaction to the genocide taking place in Gaza in much the same way as the world turned on the Nazis for the horrific genocide of European Jews.
This is the treatment on threads about anti-Semitism.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)And blaming all Jews, worldwide, for Israeli policy toward the Palestinians, is not only unjustified but makes no logical sense. Somewhat like the threads on rape culture, white privilege, police brutality, and (sometimes) poverty, I'm honestly embarrassed by some of my purported fellow liberals.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)But, like I said, and as I have shown, this is a reality Jews face. It is interesting you mentioned a few topics where when those topics are challenged, it is usually just a few people, the rest go after the ones making the challenges, but when it comes to anti-Semitism, suddenly, Jews aren't given the respect and the numbers are reversed in the same percentage but instead of being supportive, it is about telling us what it is and isn't.
But, it isn't interesting as you posted it shouldn't matter, I found this (in regards to rising anti-Semitism in Europe):
Maybe their outrage is about IDF slaughter of children.
What is it now. 160 + children killed by IDF.
Maybe look to the cause of the outrage
The rising sun!
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)of civilians. If it's "outrage" at Jews in general, then that's just bigoted bullshit.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)The response implies the Jews should examine their behavior, don't you think? Article is about Jews being afraid of anti-Semitism due to the Gaza protests turning violent against Jews and the poster remarks "Maybe look to the cause of the outrage". How is that relevant?
ETA: Or perhaps it indicates that the anti-Semitism is justifiable or excusable.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)And anyone who tries to rationalize that kind of anti-Semitism is a fucking asshole, full stop.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)I am just sick of those trying to rationalize anti-Semitism here by claiming "it's Israel's fault", "Jews should speak out against Israel", "anti-Semitism is just convenient", "stop acting like the victims", "it doesn't compare to the real issue", "the Holocaust isn't a free pass", should I go on?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Not to mention that the two biggest purveyors of anti-Semitism in Europe are the extreme right and Muslim fundamentalists. Exactly the sort of people we progressives should be resisting at every turn.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)Any excuse.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/07/22/beautiful_dream_of_israel_has_become_a_nightmare.html
Beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare
By: Gabor Maté Published on Tue Jul 22 2014
As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the Nazi genocide, I was for years haunted by a question resounding in my brain with such force that sometimes my head would spin: How was it possible? How could the world have let such horrors happen?
It was a naïve question, that of a child. I know better now: such is reality. Whether in Vietnam or Rwanda or Syria, humanity stands by either complicitly or unconsciously or helplessly, as it always does. In Gaza today we find ways of justifying the bombing of hospitals, the annihilation of families at dinner, the killing of pre-adolescents playing soccer on a beach.
In Israel-Palestine the powerful party has succeeded in painting itself as the victim, while the ones being killed and maimed become the perpetrators. They dont care about life, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says, abetted by the Obamas and Harpers of this world, we do. Netanyahu, you who with surgical precision slaughter innocents, the young and the old, you who have cruelly blockaded Gaza for years, starving it of necessities, you who deprive Palestinians of more and more of their land, their water, their crops, their trees you care about life?
(snip)
Israel wants peace? Perhaps, but as the veteran Israeli journalist Gideon Levy has pointed out, it does not want a just peace. Occupation and creeping annexation, an inhumane blockade, the destruction of olive groves, the arbitrary imprisonment of thousands, torture, daily humiliation of civilians, house demolitions: these are not policies compatible with any desire for a just peace. In Tel Aviv Gideon Levy now moves around with a bodyguard, the price of speaking the truth.
(snip)
There is much more on the link.
There is no justification for yelling "Gas the jews" in Germany, France or anywhere else it's just hatred but that hatred is fed by Netanyahu's apparent hatred for the Palestinians as his actions clearly demonstrate.
The emotion of hatred doesn't use logic it just feeds on itself.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)I was talking about the posters who "excuse" anti-Semitism because no Jews have been killed in protests. It is "just name calling." But, thank you for your example.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)for the admittedly terrible policies of the Israel government. And I'm sorry, but there is no way to even remotely rationalize something like "Gas the Jews!"
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)...Israel is still blamed. How is it logical to blame the actions of Israel for anti-Semitism against Jews in Germany?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)(and other countries) to come out into the open.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)Not only are the attackers to blame, but so is Israel. Do you not see that as problematic?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)used by people who are already bigots to begin with.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)I also know what I see. "'Gas the Jews' is wrong but Israel needs to change." Do you really not see a statement like that is blaming anti-Semitism on the perpetrators and Israel?! It is an excuse, not a reason!
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)of the closet, it spreads that kind of poison anew.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)Source: http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/jerusalem-babylon/.premium-1.607109
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)itself.
Hatred in its old and new manifestations is undoubtedly present, but thats only a part of the picture.
The sentence in the paragraph you posted is illogical, one can't eliminate context in regards to human interaction. By that sentence if every Palestinian were massacred by the Netanyahu government, it should be immaterial on how human emotions come into play.
The rights and wrongs of the conflict between Israel and Hamas, and the responsibility for death and suffering in Gaza, are totally immaterial to this outburst of Europes oldest hatred and shouldnt be debated in the same context. Anyone who attempts to deal with both issues in the same breath is trivializing and excusing hatred of Jews. There is no justification whatsoever in holding a protest, even a peaceful one, over events in the Middle East outside a synagogue. A few of Palestines advocates have rightly spoken out against this, while many who have remained silent (one despicable American website tried to blame French Jews) have shamed themselves as apologists for anti-Semitism and shamed those who honorably stand up for the Palestinians without being tainted with racism.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)That refers to a specific "hatred", you know, the topic, anti-Semitism.
Um, it is pretty obvious what that means, though you seemingly missed it. Here, let me help you:
Understand now? Or still willing to claim "the anti-Semites chanting "Gas the Jews" is "wrong," but Israel is also to blame?"
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)"the anti-Semites chanting "Gas the Jews" is "wrong," but Netanyahu's hate filled policies are a contributing factor not just by bringing anti-Semites out of the closet but breeding new ones.
What do you believe Holocaust Survivor Reuven Moskovitz was/is afraid of?
He knows evil having seen it firsthand and he's afraid that Israel under Netanyahu can/will become what the Jewish People hate the most.
Read the last paragraph on his pic.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)Contributing factor or not, it does NOT excuse the actions of the one's committing the action. And, once again, you demonstrate my point.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)whether you agree with it or not.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)It is confusing different things. Anti-Semitism is the bane of the one committing the action NOT Israel, not other Jews, not some internet meme!
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)survivor fears the hateful policies of Netanyahu's Israel? His opinion is just an "Internet meme?"
To answer your question for every action there's a reaction, these riots in France and Germany didn't just spring up in a vacuum, they grew and intensified after Israel started bombarding the Palestinians in Gaza.
Anti-Semitism doesn't stick with one person it spreads and current events most certainly affect that dynamic either waxing or waning it, you can't separate world events and attitudes as if there is no correlation.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)Just as he has the right to fearful of the policies in Nigeria or Uganda.
And? That still doesn't excuse the actions taken (which you claim are bad), nor does it excuse blaming Israel. You don't seem to understand this. After 9/11, a number of Muslims (or those thought to be) were attacked. Hate crimes against Muslims rose by over 400%. That was a "reaction" to the terrorist attacks. HOWEVER, all Muslims (especially American Muslims) were NOT to blame. To make it even more clear....NO ONE said the anti-Semitism occurred in a vacuum, that is your strawman, what was said it isn't right to blame Jews for the actions of Israel! These assholes simply used the actions of Israel as a flashpoint, and are getting cover by those making excuses for their actions!
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)There is no excuse for either action anti-Semitism or Netanyahu's hate filled policies but they feed on one another.
That's not an excuse, that's reality.
You made my point with your paragraph, it was never right to blame all the Muslims after 9/11, and there was no excuse for either action the attack of 9/11 or the hate crimes but there was a cause and effect, that's my point.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)like victim blaming. I apologize if my posts came across that way, that was not my intention.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)endangering the nation of Israel to become what they hate the most.
On a thread by madfloridian.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)and "Gas the Jews!" - as though this were some sort of tit for tat, rather than already existing hatred for Jews finding a convenient outlet at a time when the Israeli government is unpopular globally.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)a cause and effect in regard to Israel's policies which can work to reduce, or intensify and more likely spread anti-Semitism to new generations of people that come to despise perceived hateful policies.
Israel as the only Jewish nation for better or worse is the global symbol of what Jews are to people around the world.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)over the long haul virtually eliminated and that's for Netanyahu's government to change their hate filled policies toward the Palestinians.
Hate only breeds hate, Love is the only dynamic that can beat hatred.
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I was talking about the posts seemingly blaming all Jews for the Israeli gov't's policies. Because that seems to me a milder version of the same anti-Semitism expressed by the disgusting assholes in the OP.
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)is that the world did not turn on the nazis because of their treatment of Jews. In fact, many sent off their Jews to the camps without a second thought. It was hitler's expansionist policies that turned the world. Country after country, including the US, turned away the Jews trying to escape the nazis. And now they use Israel's defense of themselves to let loose their inner anti semite. It's disgusting.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)It is simply one more way to say "it is the Jew's fault!" Hell, look at the first post! The language is "offensive" but did the Jew speak out about Gaza?!
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)I am not a fan or apologist of Israels domestic or foreign policy yet that I have been witnessing here and elsewhere is downright bizarre and troubling. What must it require of someone, to loath and resent Israel so much, to such the extent that even groups like Hamas are treated like the poor underdog in a back wards David vs Goliath battle. I was told by one poster that their position was because Israel is a right wing government, perhaps it disqualifies the anti-semitism in their eyes?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)and are responsible for the killing of civilians in Gaza, and the millions of Jews who live all over the world. Either these folks were bigoted to begin with, or they're just so fucking simpleminded that "Israeli gov't bad = all Jews bad."
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)However I wonder if this is coming from the native German population (who should know better) or from the immigrant population. I think this makes a difference.
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)All of them, every one of them!
morningfog
(18,115 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)(See: II, World War).