Don't be so quick to judge parents who leave their kids in the back seat of a car

[La Lioness Priyanka]

I strongly encourage everyone to read this article. I know there is a visceral need to blame someone with negligence or ill intent when something this terrible happens, but generally this is purely a mistake that can happen to anyone.

This article points out that part of the problem is our modern technology (specifically having the child in the backseat with its back turned towards its parents).

I think this is a horrible tragedy but one that any of us can make, and unless we stop blaming individual parents, we are not going to invest heavily in finding ways to prevent this occurring.

To most parents for whom this occurs, their lives are destroyed by pain and guilt. That calls for compassion not blame.

"If few foresaw the tragic consequence of the lessened visibility of the child . . . well, who can blame them? What kind of person forgets a baby?

The wealthy do, it turns out. And the poor, and the middle class. Parents of all ages and ethnicities do it. Mothers are just as likely to do it as fathers. It happens to the chronically absent-minded and to the fanatically organized, to the college-educated and to the marginally literate. In the last 10 years, it has happened to a dentist. A postal clerk. A social worker. A police officer. An accountant. A soldier. A paralegal. An electrician. A Protestant clergyman. A rabbinical student. A nurse. A construction worker. An assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician. It happened to a rocket scientist."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

[hlthe2b]

1. One thing I do know. No one who has ever had to witness the horrific aftermath of a child or pet

dying in this most unimaginably painful manner of death, would ever forget a child or pet in their car. NEVER. And, I say this with experience, sadly, as one who had to provide emergency treatment on multiple occasions--generally to no avail. Worse than the grisly motor vehicle v motorcycle aftermaths I have seen and the gun violence. Images which stay with you and haunt your dreams for years..

Worse way for anyone to die. Absolutely the worse.

I remember seeing grisly motor vehicle and fire safety videos in school--all which taught me a lot about basic driver and home safety. Perhaps we need to show teens and prospective parents and pet owners the very sad facts of what happens when they fail to secure their child or pet against the ravages of temperatures surpassing 110 degrees in minutes.

Mistakes happen, yes. But, knowing what can happen and making your child, your pet, your top priority of the day, the hour, the minute, can make the difference.

[kcr]

4. People can't change how their brains are wired to work. No matter how high priority the task is.

This isn't willful neglect. It's being a human.

[hlthe2b]

5. when the ambient temperature is >90 degrees and someone fails to consider this, I would disagree

It is willful neglect.

[kcr]

7. But they're not failing to consider it

I'm speaking purely of accidents. If someone intentionally leaves their child in the car on a hot day, that's completely different.

[hlthe2b]

10. in most instances, I'm not buying it...

I think it reflects a sense of narcissism that is near unforgivable. And, I have seen it--repeatedly.

[kcr]

21. It won't help to just slam the people it happens to

People don't think of themselves as stupid or narcissistic. Prevention is key, and it becomes very difficult if the idea is it only happens to stupid and narcissistic people. If your premise is correct, and the Stupid Narcissist thinks, "I'm not stupid and narcissistic like they are, it can't happen to me", a kid dies.

[hlthe2b]

30. It certainly does not help to make excuses for this behavior. I speak for the victims.

It is THEY first and foremost who deserve our sympathy.

[kcr]

33. If it's more important to not make excuses than it is to save lives

Then stick to your opinion, by all means.

There's a reason that laws generally don't slap murder charges on everyone who causes a car accident regardless of the circumstances. There's a reason that traffic safety is taken seriously. It isn't assumed that everyone who causes an accident is a reckless moron. They're human beings who make mistakes. Accidents happen to even the safest drivers. It becomes difficult to convince people to take safe precautions if they think they're immune to mistakes. Human beings aren't perfect.

[hlthe2b]

37. My point exactly... Your making excuses for the behavior prevents our taking steps to prevent.

and it is unconscionable.

Perhaps if you had seen a child or pet who had basically had their internal organs cooked by temperatures surpassing 120 degrees, who were so hot to the touch, even while placed on ice, that placing an IV catheter was near impossible, who had been brought in in full seizure indicating severe brain damage--refractory to anti-convulsant treatment, until they ultimately go into cardiac arrest. I won't go on, as the smells, the sights are far more than you could surely stand to hear... But you should consider what you are saying and defending.

[kcr]

39. No. It's quite the opposite

Your insistence on demonizing people only reinforces the idea that one doesn't have to be careful because they aren't a monster. You are taking the logic and completely twisting it backwards.

[hlthe2b]

43. Unconscionable defense of deadly behavior, kcr. Unconscionable. Providing "cover" does not prevent

and some here are close to demonstrating a very callous disregard for life.

[kcr]

46. Ignorance of human flaws, htlthe2b. No one is perfect.

No one likes to think a deadly accidental tragedy can happen to them. Failing to recognize that it can could be deadly. Demonizing those who've made mistakes may feel good and satisfy a hunger for revenge. It might comfort those who think they're immune. But it does nothing to prevent future fatalities.

[hlthe2b]

49. Some clearly more than others.

You are being callous in your disregard for these children, these animals.

[kcr]

50. No, I care about the children this can happen to in the future and want to stop it.

Preventing deadly accidents is not callous.

[hlthe2b]

67. and by contrast I actually offered possible prevention measures. You offer excuses only

[kcr]

70. It doesn't matter if you offer possible prevention measures

and at the same time give the message that only monsters do it. People aren't careful to take preventive measures against things they think won't happen to them because that's other people.

[hlthe2b]

73. When you have seen and absorbed the horror first hand, get back to me. Otherwise, you are just

WRONG and doing a sincere disjustice to those of us who actually want to prevent his from happening. Burying your head in the sand is not how to do so.

[treestar]

80. quit relying on that

It does not make you right.

It is not "excuses" to recognize accidents happen.

Do you think every car driver who caused an auto accident should be treated as some sort of bad person?

Also you've never made any type of mistake, and so you don't have to worry about causing an auto accident, or any type of accident yourself.

Your good luck will hopefully hold out. If not, I'm sure you'll have "excuses."

[hlthe2b]

89. I have every right to speak to my experience in this--something in which YOU have NONE

[treestar]

93. It has no effect on your passing of judgment on the people who did it

None whatsoever. You have no authority on what happened in their minds whatsoever. You can also see the disastrous effects of regular auto accidents, so I presume equally harsh judgment of whoever causes those?

[hlthe2b]

95. Knowing the reasons behind numerous cases, I can assure, I can and will. Just as I will question

the blatant disregard for the suffering of these children/pets by many here.

Of course I sympathize with a parent who makes this horrific mistake. But, that doesn't mean I will excuse willful negligence and that is surely what it is. I don't care how damned busy and preoccupied you are. Heat, like fire, like subzero cold temperatures, like tornados and hurricanes-- these are all imminent threats. No responsible parent that puts their child (pet) first would ignore those threats.

[kcr]

114. I made the same point about accidents and was met with an accusation

so be ready.

[kcr]

85. People are capable of understanding things without seeing things firsthand

Maybe you're not, I don't know. But I'm perfectly capable of being horrified by things even though I've never directly witnessed them. Your opinion that they aren't accidents isn't right just because you've witnessed it firsthand. I can read the stories of people this has happened to and have sympathy and understanding while at the same time being horrified at the consequences. I'm a parent. A parent who has made mistakes the same as any other. Lumping all tragic consequences into the same category and failing to recognize that sometimes they're tragic accidents helps no one.

[hlthe2b]

87. apparently not n/t

[kcr]

90. Apparently not what?

Your response makes no sense.

[Trajan]

64. Classic 'Emotional Appeal' fallacy

There are many medical facts that are horrible to witness ...

Have you ever seen what happens when a person falls off a 1000 foot cliff?

Have you ever seen a person who has fallen off a roof and into his head?

Have you ever seen _______? ........

Yeah .... there are many awful injuries and medical conditions that are awful to behold or to even imagine ...

The actual awfulness exists whether a criminal perpetrator caused it or if it was caused by accident ...

The awfulness does NOT prove someone is guilty of a crime ... that is the essential problem with your commentaries regarding this subject ...

The hideous nature of an injury is not evidence of criminal culpability ...

[hlthe2b]

68. When YOU have actually treated these victims, then you can make a case. Otherwise, you know nothing

Ugly ugly ugly disregard for life. I sincerely hope you don't have kids.

[Moonwalk]

101. You're wrong. It's not that the Parent doesn't know the ugliness of this...

and if they did, they'd never do it...they may well have read of other instances of it, in all of it's ugliness, all that you're saying about what happens and how horrible a way it is to die, and they don't want it to happen to their kid. However, as the article mentions, the fault is with a glitch in their minds—one that we all have now and then—which says that the kid IS NOT in the car. They dropped the child off at daycare, their brains tell them. They left the kid with the babysitter, their brain says.

This is not narcissism which says, "I can leave the kid for a few hours in the car, nothing will happen."

THAT is not the case with these incidents. These are doting parents, and they'd never have left the kid in the car except that they thought the kid wasn't in the car. And part of the blame there is the kid in the backseat, in a seat that doesn't give parents a good view—all for safety reasons. This allows that glitch to happen, the one that says, "I dropped baby off at daycare..." rather than, as when babies were in the front seat, the realization that baby is still with them.

READ the article. It says quite clearly that these incidents didn't happen like this before babies were put in special seats in the back where they sometimes can't be seen and, thus, allow the mind to play tricks like "baby not there, must have dropped him off at daycare."

[hlthe2b]

104. Willful negligence.

Making everything in one's life the priority other than the child/pet. it does not take a scientist to know when they have sweltered to walk to and from the car that heat is life-threatening. It doesn't take a fire chief, a meterologist, a nuclear physicist-- to know that fire, heat, subzero cold, lightening, tornados, hurricanes--all imminent threats.

It happens to those who prioritize everything in life above the routine--which unfortunately includes the lives they are responsible for protecting.

[Moonwalk]

116. It's NOT willful. Parents have to do all kinds of things in life...

Are you saying that parents aren't suppose to focus on making money to feed, clothe and care for their child? That they're not suppose to focus on buying diapers, groceries, medicine? That they're not supposed to go to the doctor if hurt or sick so they don't die and leave the baby orphaned? How good a parent would that be? "I will never let baby out of my sight, even if that means I can't work and make money or go to the hospital if I need to...."

I mean, it's be a wonderful world if all parents could bring their babies to work or not have to work and just focus on the child. Or, better yet, if everything was provided gratis to them and they never had to think of anything but the child. If they didn't have to think about buying diapers and food and medicine. But in this world, unfortunately, no parents can care for their child without doing other things to maintain that care, be it working at a job to make sure that child has a home and food, or doing chores to make sure that child has a clean healthy place to grow.

These may well be the things that those parents were thinking about when they had that glitch, when they looked back in the rearview and, not seeing the kid thought "baby at daycare. I can go to work and make money so my baby has medicine when he's sick, and his favorite food and new clothes because he's getting bigger, and maybe there'll be enough for the college education fund..."

You assert that the baby wasn't their priority. But baby may have been their whole priority. And the very reason they had the memory glitch.

[hlthe2b]

119. yes, willful negligence that comes from

not making the child/pet a priority in your life. Apparently that is excused by what you say: "Parents have to do all kinds of things in life." True, but protecting their child (or as pet owner, their pet) against imminent threat, recognizing imminent threat, and quite frankly knowing where your child/pet is every minute of every day is the job. We make it impossible for those single parents who have to work multiple jobs. All of us are at fault when this happens for not having provided her/him the help needed and that poor person would deserve every consideration. But, that does not eliminate the fact that as parents/pet owners we have taken on the responsibility of protecting or making provisions to protect that "charge" from imminent harm.

Feel sorry for them, work on prevention aids to help them, but DON'T EXCUSE THEM. Excusing the most serious of irresponsibe behaviors is a sure way to enable it. Walk a few feet with my team or any at the local ER, or veterinary emergency clinic during the intense part of summer and I suspect you would come to realize.

[Ilsa]

121. "making everything else the priority..." yes, driving

safely, following traffic laws, avoiding being hit by an 18-wheeler that ran a red light are actual mental priorities to keeping the occupants of a car alive. They are also distractions. If you are only thinking about your baby in the backseat, you're going to be in or cause a wreck.

There might some murderers out there that do this. Most, by-and-large, did not intend for this to happen to their babies.

[hlthe2b]

122. None of that is going on when one exits and locks the car in 90 degree heat. None of it.

[Ilsa]

123. Wrong! The brain is still dealing with all of it:

The commute, the other bad drivers, the meeting in 30 minutes. Most people usually remember "stop at daycare", but sometimes people's brains will fail with this list, especially if they remember dropping their child off at daycare yesterday and they think that event was today.

It's a total screw-up of monumental proportions. So is leaving a sponge in an incision in surgery. So is mistaking John Smith in Room 308 with John Smithe in Room 310 when they both are on almost identical meds. So is trying to remember if you took your medication that morning when you take it every day: are you sure you are remembering today's dosing or yesterday's?

Human brains make mistakes, especially when they are under stress. This nurse has also studied some neuroscience; the article is spot-on.

[hlthe2b]

124. It is when

everything other than your child/pet is the priority.

[Ilsa]

131. Are you thinking of your children every minute when

you are at work? Eating? Pooping? Having sex? Of course not. Things are forgotten. You aren't thinking about whether you made the mortgage payment when someone cuts you off and you can't exit the freeway. And the best mothers I know have had to "cheat" with reminders to help them remember stuff about their kids, which according to you, means they aren't making them a priority.

The point is that the brain isn't perfect. No one's is. If there was a way to fix it, people would happily take the pill for it. In fact, my kid takes a pill to help with it, but it doesn't cure him.

PTSD: "Why don't you just try to forget the rape?" "Why don't you just forget about the dead bodies you saw in Iraq?" Brain doesn't work that way.

Sadly, in this case, it's one mistake a parent makes. Not a forgotten diaper bag or bottle, but another lapse with deadly consequences. And there are no do-overs.

[hlthe2b]

132. If a storm, or other imminent hazard arose, or I did not know exactly where they were and with whom,

yes. Indeed I DO.

I anticipate these things that could bring harm... I've even notified the local fire department as to the whereabouts of my pet in the house when I am away, just in case. THis is actually something a lot of fire departments are allowing residents to do.

I take the well being of all the lives under my control very very seriously. While one can not control everything that happens, one surely can anticipate those imminent harms that are most likely.

Frankly, that is how I was raised as was everyone in my large extended family. I can assure we make our share of mistakes, we forget many things, but no one would ever leave a child/dog in a car in temps exceeding 90 degrees. No one.

Obviously the horror I have witnessed first hand caring for victims of these episodes has cemented that in my mind. But honestly, I should think it takes little imagination to realize the outcome and with that realization, instilling the need to ALWAYS check the contents of a locked car on a hot day--even if it is bottle pop in the back you don't want to explode.

[Ilsa]

139. The brain problem isn't with the emergencies,

necessarily. It's also with the mundane and minor schedule changes. When something breaks a routine, it throws off planned lists of details and events.

Not everyone's brain works like yours. It doesn't mean they love their family members any less. And yes, your tone has come off as judgmental in this thread.

[hlthe2b]

140. Having had to deal with the grissly horrific aftermath of several of these, I have every right to my

"tone".... I speak for the victims.

I challenge YOU to witness what I have and to speak with the people associated. Most, unlike those here, take full responsibility for their negligence. I can respect that and sympathize with them. THEY do not ask, nor am I giving them a pass on their negligence. When they speak to others, it is their hope they learn from their mistake and they do not cotton such excuses either, I can assure you.

[Ilsa]

141. The problem with judging is that it doesn't solve the

Actual problem. It shuts people down who live with those mental/brain quirks. They won't listen past your attitude that they are "wilfully negligent" or bad parents. And the problem remains. Nothing solved about the actual cause.

As a nurse, I've seen plenty of ugly situations. Including PTSD.

Have a nice night.

[hlthe2b]

142. NO one said it solves problem, but those who accept the responsibility for their actions/speak out

can prevent others from making the same mistake. Your wanting to absolve them of that responsibility would remove even THIS small glimmer of hope in terms of educating and preventing others from this same horrible fate.

I have offered lots of potential directions for prevention efforts throughout this thread. I can certainly discuss both aspect of this tragedy (walk and chew gum at the same time). They are not inseparable issues.

[Trajan]

105. I don't know much, but I do recognize a classic fallacy

Argumentum ad passiones

[hlthe2b]

106. And I certainly recognize

your excuse for willful negligence-- as ugly as that might be.

[Trajan]

108. You know? ... I've always liked you

Not gonna let this change that - we are done

[treestar]

72. Read the article

It's about what can happen in the human brain. You don't want to acknowledge that it could happen to you.

Much like the criticisms of women who get raped - it wouldn't happen to me because I wouldn't be out alone after dark, that kind of rationalizing.

[hlthe2b]

75. HOw offensive of YOU to bring in rape denial in this conversation!!! Damn, how ugly. IGNORE

[treestar]

81. False

And you did not read the article.

You can't do analogies either?

[Jackpine Radical]

102. Your view is not helpful. The problem here is the focus.

As long as the focus is on blaming the negligent person, the solutions will tend to focus on punishing that person; however, since the problem has to do with common human faults such as forgetfulness, distraction and dissociation, no amount of threat or harsh punishment will be of much help. If, instead, we focus on prevention, we might look into devices that remind the driver that there's a kid in the car. I could well imagine warning devices such as the ones we already have for keys left in the ignition, unfastened seatbelts, etc. For example, a system could be designed such that if a kid is present in a back-seat kiddie seat (detected by weight), an alarm goes off when the driver opens the door. That sort of solution is designed to overcome human frailties of attention, and will save lives.

[hlthe2b]

109. Most are not so singly focused. Most of us who give a damn can work on prevention and support

prevention, without excusing the willful negligence of those who fail to take their most basic responsibilities as a priority--to protect their child/their pet from imminent harm.

I have never even discussed punishment--as far as I'm concerned the responsibility for the loss of their own child is probably going to be punishment for most, but feel free to make more disingenuous strawmen arguments.

I support prevention efforts. I do not support ignoring the role of parents and their failure to prioritize their parent/pet against an imminent harm.

[kcr]

120. When was the last time you heard someone admit they were a neglectful parent?

Do you think they're self aware so they'll know to prevent the willful action they're taking? If it's willful, they should just stop. That's the problem with your argument. Willful criminal acts should be disapproved of and punished. The problem is mistaking a tragic accident with a willful act. People simply won't try to prevent acts they don't think they're capable of.

[hlthe2b]

133. honestly? AFTER one of these tragic episodes.

And most do not EXCUSE themselves. Nor will the several who have taken it upon themselves to speak to parent groups or pet owners about this and what could happen cotton any excuses from the audience. They take responsibility for their mistake and they work to ensure it doesn't happen to others.

[kcr]

136. How can something be both?

It is either a wilful act worthy of punishment or something that requires preventive measures. I don't need to be reminded not to murder someone, or cheat on taxes, or place my children in harms way. If you truly thinks this is willful negligence than prevention won't work.

[hlthe2b]

138. willful negligence can and often does indicate

someone who knew or should have known better. But, as in most things, education and learning from the unfortunate experience (as in the example I just gave you above) can make a difference. And, teaching (as I suggested a very long time ago to you in this thread) kids about this issue, along with fire and automobile safety. That includes teaching our kids that lives held in their hands, whether it be their children or pets, are the most important things in their lives at that moment, that second--no matter what. Nothing is more important.

Better still are automated solutions over the long run--including ventilation systems in cars that prevent the interiors from rising to life-threatening levels, alarms that go off when a certain weight remains in the back seat when the door is locked, sensors that trigger a cell phone alarm requiring the driver to check or even, like seat belt reminders, the irritating voice that reminds the driver to check the car for "valuable" items upon parking.

[kcr]

144. No, we don't teach kids that lives are in their hands.

Kids aren't responsible for other people in the same way adults are. They won't internalize that. Kids are taught safety lessons that apply to them for their safety.

It makes no sense to me to preface a safety message with, "This is for the irresponsible morons, and you know who you are" Because no one thinks, "Hey, I'm an irresponsible moron! I'd better listen!"

[hlthe2b]

145. If we want kids to be responsible parents when the time comes, we certainly DO teach them that

Unbelievable! I sincerely hope others do not believe that kids should not be taught how to parent and the responsibility that comes from a life totally dependent on THEM.

No wonder these episodes keep happening. Does anyone take responsibility for anything or anyone? Those young lives that are totally dependant on us is a responsibility and a privilege. It appears some are not ready, nor will they ever be ready for such a responsibility and privilege. Heaven help those who fall victim to them as their guardian.

[kcr]

146. I have never seen a safety message aimed at kids

that focused on making them responsible for someone else's safety. Not one. For good reason. Children should be focused on themselves when in a dangerous situation and reviewing the rules that they need to do. Not worried about anyone else. They aren't adults. They don't process things the way we do or react to fear in the same way. THe purpose of teaching safety to children isn't for character development. It's to keep them safe.

[hlthe2b]

148. Oh for gawd's sakes, kcr

Discussing this with your kids, discussing it in school when automobile safety or fire safety or tornado safety, or pet safety, for heavens sakes. That is what I am referring to.

Do you really think,, oh, hell, let nature run it's course. If a few babies or puppiies or toddlers dies, well, better than teaching our kids that yes, when the time comes, they ARE responsible for a life. You claim to want to prevent this? yeah, right. Don't use the lessons learn from those who had to learn the hard way. Don't dare teach kids what can happen to a helpless child or animal in a hot locked car. Don't do a damned thing, EXCEPT excusing those who commit these horrendous acts.

I'm done with you on this issue, kcr. I just can not comprehend your obtuseness on this issue. Perhaps we can debate on other things, but when you have walked a mile in my shoes, treated the victims and ACTUALLY SPOKEN with those who have experienced this, we can talk.

Have a good night, but I will not respond to you again.

[Luminous Animal]

35. Please read the article. Perhaps focus on the scientists explanation of why this happens.

[hlthe2b]

38. I have to treat it. I KNOW why it happens and I will NOT excuse it.

[Luminous Animal]

47. Clearly, you do not know why it happens in all instances and you are stubbornly unwilling

to educate yourself.

It is a very well written article which offers not only intelligent discussion of the why but it also offers solutions.

Here is an organization working for a solution. Kids And Cars

Here is a link to their petition, they need 94,000 more signatures by August 14:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/prevent-child-heat-stroke-deaths-vehicles/ymQR1Ty0

Prevent Child Heat Stroke Deaths in Vehicles
In the last 20 years more than 670 children have died in hot vehicles.

As of July 15 this year 17 children had already died, reports KidsAndCars.org.

These unthinkable tragedies can be prevented.

We the People call on the Obama Administration to authorize the Department of Transportation to prevent children from dying in hot vehicles by doing the following:

• Provide funding for research and development of innovative technology.

• Identify, evaluate and test new technology to accelerate implementation of the most feasible and effective solutions.

• Require installation of technology in all vehicles and/or child safety seats to prevent children from being left alone left alone in vehicles.

For more information: http://www.kidsandcars.org/heatstroke.html

[hlthe2b]

71. I am in favor of any and all workable prevention solutions. I never disregarded doing so.

But like the parent who leaves their child in a burning building, claiming they "forgot", they are culpable. I have sympathy for them. I may even empathize with them, depending on circumstance. But, I will not EXCUSE this level of willful negligence.

[treestar]

84. Wilful negligence

may not be what it always is. The article you refuse to read has some information on that.

[treestar]

74. Read the article

You don't know why it happens from having dealt with the aftermath.

[hlthe2b]

77. From someone who has the ugly audacity to compare to rape denial? Really. Utterly and unbelievably

offensive, treestar. Unbelievably ugly

[treestar]

78. It is indeed similar

righteous indignation aside, the issue is "it won't happen to me." If I just blame the people that it happened to.

That's what you're doing.

Like below, you're the one who would not buy the alarm that might prevent this, because you are never forgetful and would never do this.

It is a very good analogy and you can't make that go away except by deliberately misinterpreting it.

[hlthe2b]

83. I am in favor of any and all preventive aids. You can NOT put words in my mouth to the contrary...

I have never and would never disregard any method that would help those parents (or pet owners) who simply will not make their child/pet a priority.

[treestar]

86. You insist on judging them as not having their children as a priority

The point of the article was it is an accident that can happen to anyone, as illustrated by many cases.

[hlthe2b]

88. They clearly don't n/t

[kcr]

97. No, it's not clear

when you understand how and why it happens. The brain goes on autopilot when doing everyday tasks, because if it didn't it would be much harder to function. It's not a willful action, the brain does it automatically and unconsciously.

[hlthe2b]

99. Not when there is an imminent threat.

Not when there is an imminent threat does being preoccupied excuse this--unless your child/pet is really NOT a priority.

[kcr]

112. It simply isn't a conscious decision.

Yes, when you're in a burning building or facing an armed intruder your brain is going to kick out of autopilot real fast. A daily activity like driving a car on a route you take every day is not an obvious, immediate threat. They're doing the same thing they do every day.

[pnwmom]

126. If someone accidentally left their baby in the car in the morning, it could be 60-70 degrees.

Over the course of a day at work, the temperature could rise enough to kill.

[hlthe2b]

128. You know...

maybe I and most others were raised in a more effective way. I was not even allowed a pet if I could not answer to the whereabouts and safety of that pet every single moment of the day. And my parents talked about imminent threats and the need to anticipate them--for children and pets. They would see something (like a old style discarded refrigerator with locking hardware) and comment on it. But most of all, they and my entire extended family believed that responsibility for another life is the premiere priority in ones' life and that all else must come second. And.. they instilled the need to seek (and offer) help when needed.

So, no. I have dealt with this problem for decades--heard all the stories, seen and likewise shared all the tears. All while I and my team had to try to save a life dealt the most horrific and suffering experience. It curdles the soul to see, smell, experience that scene. It truly does.

It is tragic and we should do everything to prevent it. But, excuse it? NO!!!!

[TBA]

8. I was left in a car as a child

I was one of 5 kids. Family came home from the beach and I fell asleep in the car. Everyone went inside and went to bed. I woke up in the middle of the night alone in the car.

I think I was about 6 or 7.

I think my parents were just tired and shooed everyone to bed not noticing I was not there.

[hlthe2b]

13. Big difference between a warm car in PM & deadly direct sun shining on a car in temps surpassing 90

Big difference.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. but not in the actual behavior of the parents. forgetting is forgetting

and it can sometimes lead to disastrous consequences and sometimes to mere annoyances

[TBA]

22. That was my point.

I was old enough I would have gotten out of the car if it was too hot. However, my parents did overlook the fact I was missing from the brood and were horrified when they realized their mistake. I was unharmed but I remember being very upset.

[hlthe2b]

24. Very different from failing to protect you from an imminent threat. n/t

[hlthe2b]

23. No... It is very different. Adults are expected to recognize risk to children and act responsibly

One would expect a caring, vigilent parent or pet owner to anticipate the most serious risks.

I realize some will excuse anything and surely accidents will happen, but it is no different than seeing an old style refrigerator and recognizing the need to pull those locking handles off. Part of being a parent is anticipating those dangers and making it a priority.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. the actual behavior is not different, the consequences are. i am not sure what there is

to argue about this, since the person to whom it happened agrees with me.

[hlthe2b]

28. I don't care if you drag in 100 people to agree with you. We all know there are irresponsible

people in this world who will excuse anything. Walk in my shoes and try and treat some of these victims of this horror and perhaps you will think differently.

We can't ever make anything 100% safe, but it is the duty of parents (or pet owners) to watch out for the most serious risks. And, walking to a car in sweltering conditions just ought to give them pause as they lock the doors of that car.

[TBA]

29. Yep.. I view it as an accident.

They would never in a million years done that to me on purpose. I think the whole family was exhausted from a day at the beach. Normally, my mom counted us constantly to keep track.

[kcr]

36. People are expected to drive safely and obey all laws for the same reason

because accidents can be deadly. Yet we don't treat all fatal accidents the same and slap them with murder charges because no one is flawless when driving. Accidents aren't caused by someone who just didn't care about whether or not they killed someone. Sometimes it's a tragic accident.

No one is absolutely flawless in parenting either, and that has nothing to do with the fact that they just don't care enough. It's just that most parenting accidents don't cause a death. The worst that usually happens is that horrible pit in the stomach feeling when a parent realizes the mistake and the consequences it could have had.

[hlthe2b]

41. Some drivers shouldn't drive...

and by extension...

well, you know....

[kcr]

44. So you think anyone who causes an accident should be thrown in jail for murder?

Some drivers shouldn't drive.... But I'm a good drier so I don't have to worry about it!

The more conscience people are of their flaws the more they can consciously take steps to prevent a tragedy. Demonizing people and punishing everyone harsly the same way only reinforces the "It can't happen to me" mentality.

[hlthe2b]

45. Attributing YOUR WORDS to me or others in disingenuous and dishonest. I will respond no further

[kcr]

48. I haven't done that, but whatever n/t

[jeff47]

51. It's always a good plan to turn indignant when your argument is going south. (nt)

[kcr]

55. It makes arguments on the internet so much fun

The poster thinks it's perfectly okay to claim I'm callous and don't care about dead kids. I would have thought it was obvious I wasn't actually claiming they said something, but trying to show the flaw in the argument. Some can dish it out and then project that dishing onto others.

[hlthe2b]

91. another exccuser for willful negligence. n/t

[jeff47]

103. You know, actually reading the article would have taken far less time

than writing this massive stream of angry replies. You'd have learned something too.

Oh well. Gotta go with the rage sometimes.

[LanternWaste]

61. I thought the use of ellipses directly indicated an unfinished thought

I thought the use of ellipses directly indicated an unfinished thought, requiring the reader to attribute the rest of the finished statement in however they see most relevant...

[pnwmom]

125. Even someone who has witnessed it could potentially be so exhausted

and distracted that s/he could make such a mistake. It's not a matter of logic or experience, when this happens. It's a failure of memory.

[hlthe2b]

127. and having been that exhausted, I recognize the importance of getting help

and offering help to others that need it. That, too (accepting and offering help) is likewise part of responsible guardianship.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

2. I never judge. It almost happened to me.

I drove my wife to work, then drove home mostly out of habit. If my little girl had not cooed in the back seat I might have forgotten to drop her off at daycare. Scared the bejeezus out of me.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. i think this is the point. people assume you cannot have a memory failure just

because you are responsible and loving. the reality we are all capable of memory failures

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. So rank negligence is egalitarian. Stipulated.

Good, then no one can call me a classist, sexist, or racist for thinking anyone who
could leave a child in a car is a fucking imbecile.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. you can call anyone anything but that doesnt make it true and doesn't help a problem

but i have found that you rarely care about either.

[Dreamer Tatum]

16. I have now seen it all. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. good for you. nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

32. I can't believe an actual adult would ever need to be reminded that they have a kid with them

But WHATEVER. If that's how fucking stupid and negligent people are nowadays, FINE.

Simple solution: bracelet on the kid, bracelet on the adult, both GPS enabled, emits a
shrill noise when more than 20 feet apart. Would help with lost kids, too.

Expensive, you say? Well, that's the cost of living in a world where being stupid and
negligent is viewed sympathetically.

[cyberswede]

54. Such devices exist. Here's one for $25

http://mtcbiz.net/forget_me_not_alarm.html



Others:

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/verizon-patents-car-seat-alerts-parent-if-child-forgotten-car/2013-05-09

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/consumerblog/2011/12/15/wireless-car-seat-alarm-saves-parents-from-leaving-child-in-car-unattended/

etc...

[Luminous Animal]

59. It a great idea but few buy them because no parent thinks that they will be that person.

There ought to be a mandatory system built into the car seat.

[jeff47]

58. They didn't forget they had the kid with them.

They forgot that they did not drop the kid off at daycare. Or something similar.

They think the kid is being taken care of because they think they dropped the kid off. But they're remembering what they did yesterday, not today.

[MissDeeds]

111. I can't understand it either

One of the evening news programs a few weeks ago offered a solution of sorts. When you place the child in the rear seat, take your left shoe off and place it on the seat alongside the child. Since the left foot is not needed to operate a vehicle, unless it's a clutch, it won't be needed for driving. The idea is that when the driver exits the vehicle, they will notice they are missing a shoe and will be reminded to look in the back seat.

I have very strong feelings about the whole "I forgot my child" issue, but let it suffice to say if a parent or guardian is so preoccupied that they forget a live human being in the car, they probably shouldn't be driving.

[Luminous Animal]

40. It is abundantly clear who has NOT read the article.

[Kali]

11. read the article

[kcr]

18. If you're correct, then we need to direct the attention at imbeciles

Except imbeciles don't know they're imbeciles, do they? So it won't help their children. So if we accept your premise, it will just keep happening and more kids die.

Focusing on prevention will save lives, and smearing people won't help. Everyone thinks they're not an imbecile and it doesn't apply to them.

[Orrex]

12. Something I'd like to see...

is an app with a device that connects to the carseat so that the parent's phone rings and delivers an alert if the phone moves more than 10 yards from the car while the carseat is still buckled.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. that's really kinda brilliant

[Orrex]

27. Aw shucks!

It might be a tricky marketing campaign, because no one wants to think they need to be reminded that their kid's in the back seat, but if it saves even one life...

[Luminous Animal]

53. That point was made in the article. NASA developed a product that would alert a driver

based on the weight of the car seat but 1)no one would manufacture it because of liability issues, and 2) no one would buy it because all people feel that they would never be that person.

[redqueen]

17. That sounds like a great idea. nt

[cyberswede]

57. Alarm systems have existed for a while

Here's an example from 2011
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/consumerblog/2011/12/15/wireless-car-seat-alarm-saves-parents-from-leaving-child-in-car-unattended/

And Verizon patented a car seat with wireless notification - not sure if it rings to cell phone, or another type of receiver
http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/verizon-patents-car-seat-alerts-parent-if-child-forgotten-car/2013-05-09

And...

Sounding the Alarm

Car seat alarms are also a viable option. Manufacturers such as Suddenly Safe 'N' Secure Systems, Inc., and Baby Alert International sell their products online. Even NASA got into the act when engineer Chris Edwards invented a car seat alarm.

Edwards admitted it was a departure from what he normally does.

"Well, we had a local incident where a child died, and this was my way of dealing with it," he said.

The alarms consist of a car seat sensor that is placed in the car seat and is activated by the weight of your baby in the seat. Another sensor with an alarm goes on your key chain. If you walk away from the car with your baby still in the car seat, the alarm goes off.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2012/July/Wheres-the-Baby-Forgotten-in-the-Hot-Car/

[redqueen]

14. I agree with you 100%

I don't personally get it, because I'm obsessive about some things and always check my car when I get out whether anyone is riding with me or not (did one of the kids leave an item back there? did I? are the doors locked? etc)

But as you said, these are memory failures that result from us piling on more and more and more things to focus on. All it takes is once. Forgetting one time. I read that article earlier today and it was heart breaking. Except that one woman...

[LanternWaste]

26. I'm far too flawed to pretend I'll never forget an important thing, as I have done so many, many tim

I'm far too flawed to pretend I'll never forget an important thing, as I have done so far too many times in the past. And in many of those cases, it was simply circumstance and providence which prevented the thing we laughed about the next day to become an actual tragedy.

[NightWatcher]

31. Same here, plus add sleep deprivation, stress, and other factors on parents

I'm not excusing anyone, but I did want to say that you never know what someone else is going through.

[arcane1]

34. THANK YOU!!! People tend to give the human brain more credit than it deserves.

That's not a nice way of saying it, but it's true.

That part about the man in Chattanooga who deactivated his car alarm did me in

[La Lioness Priyanka]

115. i think people want to protect themselves psychologically from the fact

that we could all kill our children accidentally. it causes too much anxiety so its easier to just point fingers to those for whom the accident has occurred.

[redqueen]

117. No, I think some people are simply more mindful than others, and simply cannot comprehend

that anyone could be so distracted that they could actually forget about what they've done or not done with their child.

[missingthebigdog]

42. I left my dog in the car a few weeks ago.

My eldest son has a dog that we all adore, Anya. He and I work together, and Anya is at the office with us almost every day. Sometimes she rides home with me, sometimes with him.

I had her with me, did my typical after work stuff, went through a drive through to pick up dinner for the kiddos because my husband and I were going out, and headed home. My cellphone rang as I was going up the drive, and I parked the car, got out, and went into the house.

I sent my younger son (who is a young adult) out to the car to get the food, changed clothes, and hubby and I headed out. We got in the car, and Anya was still in the back seat! Elapsed time- maybe ten minutes.

It was late evening, and not very hot; she was fine. I was horrified! No question that this was my fault, but my son did not notice her when he got the food out of the car either. For whatever reason, she did not alert him that she was still in the backseat.

I could not believe that I forgot her; you would never have been able to convince me that I could do such a thing. Until this happened. It brings tears to my eyes to think about what could have happened if the circumstances had been different.

So, yeah, I think people CAN forget that they have a child or a pet in the car. People DO forget.

[treestar]

92. Yep. When I was a kid we took the family dog to my aunt's

house for a visit.

When we got home from the visit, the phone was ringing. It was my aunt asking if we'd forgotten something. We left them the dog!

And two of the people in my family, my younger siblings, loved that dog like crazy and fought over whose room she'd sleep in every night.

Much lighter story without bad consequences but shows we aren't always on top of things.

[closeupready]

52. Thank you for this important reminder that everyone human fails.

I think many on this board forget that, as you likely learned in grammar school or in catechism, nobody is perfect - "to err is human, to forgive divine." Which, I guess is actually Shakespeare, but whatever. K&R

[leftstreet]

56. DURec

[Bettie]

60. I try not to judge them. I really do.

But it is hard. I've never forgotten any of my kids, never.

I'm always aware of them, but I lost my first at birth, so I'm more conscious of what can happen I guess.

I'm sympathetic to their loss, but I cannot imagine how one can forget that they have one of their children in the car.

Again, sympathy for loss, but I acknowledge that I do harbor feelings of anger when I hear about this.

[treestar]

94. that's what the article is about

No one can imagine themselves doing that. That includes the people who did it.

[jeff47]

96. They aren't forgetting that they have the child in the car.

They're forgetting that they did not drop the child off at daycare, or similar.

For example, they could be remembering yesterday's drop off as if it was today's.

So they're thinking the child is in good hands because of their mental timeline is off.

[redqueen]

118. I feel bad for them. At least for the ones who actually feel bad for their tragic mistake.

I'm like you, I cannot imagine not checking and double checking when it comes to my kids.

Some people go on auto pilot easier than others.

[CBGLuthier]

62. Well Hell, You tried

You just can not convince people that this could happen to them. Oh no, they are all better than anyone this ever happened to and they would never do this. Their brains are superior. They are more caring and attentive.Blah Blah Blah.

[Live and Learn]

66. I think some people derive their own sense of self worth by deriding others.

Attempting to educate them or arguing with them is futile. If they can't belittle others they can't feel superior to them.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

110. Exactly. People like to think such a terrible thing could happen

only to an uncaring, stupid, negligent parent. And if you are convinced you are not uncaring, stupid or negligent, you can feel both confident that you could never do such a thing, and superior to the person who did. The fact is that if you are the owner of a human brain you really could do such a thing. Yes, you. And me. I wish people would get off their high horses and just try to understand why these things happen so they could be prevented.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

113. we are all better than average.

[ann---]

65. Why not?

Any parent who travels with a child in the car and does not SENSE the whereabouts of that child every single minute s/he is with them does not deserve to be a parent. My gawd! Who forgets their flesh and blood?

[ErikJ]

69. Teen's invention could prevent hot car deaths

Teen's invention could prevent hot car deaths
By Morning Express with Robin Meade staff

Companies are already interested in a teenager's invention that could prevent children from dying in hot cars.

Alissa Chavez’s gadget would trigger an alarm on your key chain if you walk away from your car and forget your child is still inside!

INTERACTIVE MAP: Every hot car death in 2014

She tells HLN's Robin Meade it's a product she has been working on since her 8th grade science fair.

Now you can finally help make her invention a reality!

Visit Chavez's Indiegogo site to hear her story and contribute to the campaign that will hopefully fund a prototype for "The Hot Seat" alarm: The Hot Seat: One child too many

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/07/24/teen-invents-keychain-kid-hot-car-alarm-alissa-chavez

[Spitfire of ATJ]

76. This is a major big deal here in Vegas....

Those quick disconnect to stroller car seats are really popular.

[Captain Stern]

79. Heartbreaking situations.

I'd like to think that I'd never have forgotten about any of my kids being in the backseat, but I've forgotten other stuff that I would have said beforehand that I'd never forget.

I don't see any good that can come out of punishing a parent that honestly forgot, but I can see where not punishing them might give bad ideas to other folks. I think the guy in Georgia may have read where many parents who left their kids in hot cars didn't go to jail....so he figured that was a good way to murder his child, and get away with it.

[Rex]

82. Good reminder that life is fragile and easily destroyed.

One mistake. All it takes for a lifetime of suffering. I have no doubt almost all the parents live the rest of their lives in depressing misery knowing they killed their own child. No need to judge them, they created their on hell on earth and have to live in it now.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

98. This article is required reading for a college class I teach

on aviation safety and accident analysis. It wouldn't seem to be relevant, but it is. Airline pilots don't intend to make mistakes, either, but they do. And those mistakes are almost always caused by some combination of stress, fatigue and distraction - the same factors that cause people to forget about their kid in a car. Fortunately, modern airplanes are equipped with a lot of devices and systems that usually prevent these kinds of pilot errors from causing an accident - but nothing is foolproof.

The reason I have my students read this article is so they understand something about how the human brain, when stressed or fatigued, reverts back to old habit patterns, with the result that mistakes occur when the brain fails to recognize that something else is going on. Many of my students are pilots themselves, and they start out with that "I'd never make a stupid mistake like that" attitude. This article teaches them that they could, indeed, make a "stupid" mistake under certain circumstances because they are stuck with a fallible human brain. It's an eye-opener for them to learn that they, too, could crash an airplane or leave their kid in their car.

[lark]

100. Sorry, don't buy that.

I can empathize with the poor single parent who has a job interview and no one to watch their baby, but is risking their baby's life worth it? I live in FL. where 100 degree heat index is not unusual at all. A car is truly a death trap for a child in the summer here and every single summer a number of children statewide die from this. Nothing can excuse letting your child die of 200 degree heat, no job is worth it.

Leaving a child in the car for just a few minutes, understandable for the reasons you list, and not life threatening. Leaving your child in the car for so long that they die or are seriously injured, inexcusable. I speak as a working mother who had a lot of stress when my children were young and did leave my daughter in the ca in the garage for 5 min. one time. Luckily, it wasn't a really hot day, but still it scared me so much, it never happened again.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

107. It isn't about knowingly leaving the kid in a car while running an errand -

that is, of course, a very bad, foolish thing to do. Instead, most of these instances occur where the parent actually forgot the child was there in the first place - usually because a normal habit pattern was interrupted while the parent was fatigued or distracted. Read the article.

[BKH70041]

129. Uhhhhhhh.............................No

Someone leaves their child in the car to die, we're done talking. They can keep their "reasons why" to themselves.

The solution is don't do it. And if you do, expect to pay a heavy price, which is better than you deserve.

[Uncle Joe]

130. Perhaps some sort of alarm attached to the baby seat when occupied could sound when

the car door is opened?

Thanks for the thread, La Lioness Priyanka.

[dem in texas]

134. There is no excuse for leaving a child in a hot car

Figure out what is important, not returning that last call or message on your cell phone. Unclutter your mind. When you drive with a child in the car, no cell phone, no texting, no nothing except driving and making sure your child is safe. When you stop, automatically roll the windows down for God's sake! You have your most precious cargo with you, think about it!

[etherealtruth]

135. I do not

Although I honestly miss having small children ... I do not miss the ominous responsibility of having the very lives of those that I love most impacted by every action (or inaction) i take

[WinkyDink]

137. I fail to see what connection occupation has to remembering a CHILD.

[BlueJazz]

143. Leaving a baby or young child in a vehicle is something that has to happen...

...to someone, somewhere, sometime.
With many millions of children 'dropped off", with many days in a persons life , with many stresses and many differences and complexities of the Human brain...the unthinkable will happen.

I don't know of any behavior that, given enough people, with enough time, will NOT happen.

I wish it would not but I'm not silly or ignorant enough to expect that.

One other point. The power-ball is hard to hit..very, very hard to hit...almost impossible to hit if you play one number.
So lets do this> everybody will have to pick a number in the power-ball and IF you are correct, we'll throw your ass in jail.
Cheer up though, there are many times when the power ball is not hit.

[Barack_America]

147. I always put my bag in the backseat under the car seat.

And the infant car seat always comes inside.

I do these things because I know I'm often distracted enough for this to happen to me.