How should a teacher who has sex with a student be punished?

[Lionel Mandrake]

The conduct is certainly unprofessional, and the teacher always loses his or her job. If the student is underage, then it's "statutory rape", which is a felony and can result in a long prison sentence. But what if they love each other? Should all be forgiven?

Consider for example the case of Leah Gayle Shipman:

A disgraced ex-high school teacher quietly married the underage student she allegedly had an affair with in North Carolina. Perhaps the best wedding gift she received was from prosecutors who dropped their case against the newlywed. Leah Gayle Shipman, 42, faced several charges, including statutory rape and taking indecent liberties with a student , from her 2009 arrest, that led to her ouster from Brunswick County Academy, according to WECT. But the case dissolved, because she married Johnnie Ison in 2011, according to WBTV. Under North Carolina law, a husband doesn't have to testify against his wife, WGN said. Without Ison's sworn testimony, the prosecution doesn't have a case. Her affair with Ison allegedly began in 2009 when he was 15 years old. If she'd been found guilty, Shipman faced up to 15 years in prison.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/21/leah-shipman-ex-teacher-marries-student_n_2521118.html

[LittleBlue]

1. *Kanye shrug*

He married her, and won't testify against his wife.

Whatcha gonna do?

[yeoman6987]

3. Her affair with Ison allegedly began in 2009 when he was 15 years old.

Isn't she a pedophile? I think it is NOT something that should be condoned.

[LittleBlue]

6. We had the Mary Kay Letourneau thing over here in Seattle when I was in high school

Her imprisonment didn't really serve much of a purpose, considering they've been married for 9 years now.

To me, it should be up to the husband whether he wants to prosecute. If he doesn't feel wronged, then it doesn't bother me if she isn't prosecuted.

[yeoman6987]

8. what if it was a 40 year old guy with a 13 year old girl?

[pnwmom]

10. Why did you make the girl younger?

Any 15 year old has been through puberty, so -- though it's wrong -- it's not pedophilia.

[yeoman6987]

22. Typo....sorry I meant 15

[dsc]

27. so if an 11 year old has menstrated

then it is all good? Is that what you really meant to type?

[Warpy]

13. If they kept it quiet until she was old enough to marry him and did

it would still be up to her to prosecute him. As it is, it might be ammo to use in a divorce but until then, other people would do well to butt out. Some things are made worse by prosecution.

[LittleBlue]

17. If you reverse the sexes in your OP

I'd feel the same way.

Perhaps I would feel differently if the older person intended to deceive or exploit the younger person. If they end up married, I say use the prison space for violent offenders.

[11 Bravo]

18. What if it was a 50 year old guy and a 4 year old girl? Or ...

possibly we could restrain ourselves to a discussion of the facts as they pertain to the case in question.

[Lionel Mandrake]

19. Since he married her, he probably didn't feel wronged.

Legally he is considered a victim, but he sure didn't feel like a victim. Most of his male friends probably wished that they too could become such "victims".

[elias49]

7. I don't think anyone would 'condone' it

and I suppose, technically, she is a pedophile...or WAS.

Meh. Stuff happens.

[pnwmom]

11. Technically she isn't, since a 15 year old is not "pre-puberty."

It's wrong for a teacher to have done this regardless -- but it doesn't constitute pedophilia.

[Codeine]

12. That's not really pedophilia.

It's gross and unprofessional, but not pedophilia because he's been through puberty. Ephebophilia maybe?

[Aerows]

16. Unprofessional

and creepy but, yeah, not pedophilia. Creepy as all get out, though.

[Laffy Kat]

32. Yes, ephebophilia. nt

[HooptieWagon]

2. In that particular case,

...it was statutory rape and prison and loss of job entirely appropriate.

In the hypothetical case of a college professor and 18 or over student, it depends on the situation. If student was in professor's class, then perhaps a reprimand from school is in order, as no legal action can be taken, but its still inappropriate. If student wasn't in prof's class, nothing can be done and its pretty much their business.

[gollygee]

4. It doesn't sound like it's a case of it being forgiven

but instead it's a case of the prosecution not having enough evidence due to the victim not having to testify against the defendant because she is now his wife. From the part of the article you quoted: "Under North Carolina law, a husband doesn't have to testify against his wife, WGN said. Without Ison's sworn testimony, the prosecution doesn't have a case." It sounds like they'd pursue it if they could.

[Lurks Often]

5. If the student is below the applicable state law regarding age of consent

the teacher should be prosecuted. Regarding the criminal prosecution, a teacher should be treated no differently that another adult would be under the same circumstances.

However the school has the right to discharge that teacher for cause for being unprofessional and the applicable regulatory agency can revoke, permanently or otherwise, the license to teach.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

9. I seem to recall the Bengals cheerleader/teacher also married her victim n/m

[Sancho]

14. Newt married his HS math teacher....

http://www.nationalmemo.com/strange-true-newt-gingrich-married-his-high-school-math-teacher-when-was-19/

Teachers and students get away with all kinds of things depending on who it is...

In Georgia, a male over 16 can do about anything they want (if they are white).

[Lionel Mandrake]

20. The age of consent varies from state to state.

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

Each U.S. state (and the District of Columbia) has its own age of consent. Currently state laws set the age of consent at 16, 17, or 18. The most common age is 16.

age of consent 16 (31): Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia

age of consent 17 (8): Colorado, Illinois, Louisiana, Missouri, New Mexico, New York, Texas, Wyoming

age of consent 18 (12): Arizona, California, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin[51]

Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#State_laws

[Throckmorton]

25. Connecticut's is 16, but with a paragraph of escape clauses.

In Connecticut, he could have been 19, and if he was a student in the same school system as she worked, she would be guilty of Statutory Rape.

[Lionel Mandrake]

33. Yeah, Connecticut is really weird.

It just goes to show the absurdity of the whole concept of statutory rape.

[Sancho]

28. Regardless of the age of consent, should a teacher have a relationship with a student?

My point is that some positions have an ethical obligation. In my view, professors shouldn't date students, doctors shouldn't date patients, and ministers shouldn't date their congregation.

Newt's teacher met him at school and they married when he was 19, but they were likely involved before he graduated and was over 18. I think that some professions should have ethical standards beyond the law.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. I have to ask inre:

In Georgia, a male over 16 can do about anything they want (if they are white).

what about white females over 16 and does the race thing still apply or is this just old law that needs purging or what exactly ....

[Sancho]

39. It may not be "law", but reality is that in most of the South, discrimination is still pervasive.

I grew up and taught in SC and GA for years.

If a 16 year old white male student had consentual sex with a female teacher, it likely wouldn't be prosecuted unless it was a public embarrassment or the parents wanted to pursue it. Sometimes the teacher would be fired, but not always.

If the student was black and the teacher was white, there would would more likely be charges.

If the student is female and white, more likely the teacher would be prosecuted (most teaching contracts have morality clauses and certification has a code of ethics even if the student is the age of consent), but in many cases the teacher is never charged.

If the student and teacher are both black, it's very possible it would not be prosecuted.

That's the reality...it may be changing, but I've seen it. Here in Florida it seems more likely that teachers would be prosecuted.

[ecstatic]

15. Prison. Kids go to school to learn, not to be raped. nt

[840high]

31. ...^ that

[Art_from_Ark]

47. Just about any boy in my trig class

would have been in seventh heaven if he could have spent a night with the female trig teacher, who often entertained us with stories of "wet T-shirt night".

[Generic Brad]

21. Make them have sex with someone older than they are

Let's see. She was 45 and the boy was 15. There's a 27 year difference. She should be sentenced to have sex with a 72 year old man.

Now - before someone gets all riled up about this - please understand I was not serious in any way with this outrageous suggestion.

[moriah]

23. Is that love, or marriage to avoid criminal charges?

How would people feel if a 15-year-old girl was abused and later married her 40-something-year-old teacher?

I don't care if they get married, there should still be charges for a 40-something with a 15-year-old.

[LWolf]

24. The same way any adult predator of teens should be.

Convict her, make her do her time, of course lose her teaching license, put her on a sex offenders list, and by GOD make sure she's not in contact with her victim, nor he with her, at least until he's out of high school and a legal adult. After that, there's not really any legal recourse. Of course, the boy's family could be making sure he gets extended, intensive therapy, and encourage him, when the time seems right, or when she's going to be released, to get a restraining order. Of course, in this case, it's too late for any of those things.

[Turbineguy]

26. Keeping a person 20 plus years younger

sexually satisfied would be punishment enough.

[BlueJazz]

29. So much depends on the circumstances. This poster has many different feelings on the subject.

I remember a female I went to school with that was 15 and a Senior in high school. She was incredibly brilliant, mature and insightful.
She could have passed for 22 ...easily. Her mind was one in a million.
If a male teacher of the age of 24 had had an affair with her, I would be at a loss to pass judgment.

I'm sure some of these cases are fairly straightforward but some are a big ?????????

[oberliner]

35. What if the teacher was 38?

Which was the age of the teacher at the time in the OP. Would that make a difference?

[BlueJazz]

40. Good question. Maybe it really boils down to "IF" one party is taking advantage of the other.

Usually one party is much more experienced in life...plus the fact that teenage brains are not truly formed yet.
Actually, I read something the other day that tests have shown that we humans don't fully form cognitive skills and other life skills until as late as 26-29.

In answer to your question, I have to cop out...sorry..and say: I don't know.
I'm 32 and are not attracted to teen age women so I have no basis for experience or feelings ... ???

[Sherman A1]

37. Agreed

Each individual and case is different. What causes people to become attracted to one another, develop love for one another is hard to quantify. Some cases may be very straight forward and easy to judge while other.... not so much.

A thousand "what - if's" can be presented as potential scenarios, but that does not cover the thousand+1 case.

[Xolodno]

30. I don't believe prison would solve this problem....

...but make it extremely economically bad to do so. Sort of like a doctor having sex with his patient....Teacher should be permanently disbanded from being able to teach anywhere. Oh and, in case of divorce....automatically the younger gets 100%. And a prenup is invalid. Make it so costly, the teacher really has to think twice.

[JI7]

36. i guess in this case she could be prevented from Teaching again

[alphafemale]

38. Loss of job. Regardless of gender/Regardless of age of consent

A sexual relationship in a situation such as this is a disproportionate amount of power. "I control your grade/paycheck. It is also going to create a situation and tension that is going to be unfair to other students in many cases as the focus is going to be, or at the very least...perceived to be changing the group dynamic.

It is inherently unprofessional behavior.

It is a balance of power.

There is a reason most companies don't allow supervisors to manage family members or sexual partners.

In most cases, a HS and especially College teacher/professor is going to have a student for a 12 week semester. Or at least a transfer can easily be made at the end of each 12 week semester teaching block.

If your brain can't reign over body? If your will cannot or will not rein in base desire? Can you not wait a short period of 12 weeks before you begin a sexual relationship?

That shows a lack of judgement probably ill suited to the position.

All of the above would not involve age of consent.

Which is another ridiculous thing that needs to be settled nationwide once and for all.

As it is now, a couple could celebrate the one's 18th birthday outside their home state where the age of consent is 16 and one partner IS 16. But they do so in a state where the age is consent is 17. And the 16 year old will be 17 the next weekend.

Technically, the older of the teens....COULD be charged with statutory rape and plopped on the sex perv list for the rest of their life.

[Starry Messenger]

41. She was fired. She's a former teacher.

Maybe NC's laws should be changed so predators don't have this loophole.

The story says the student's mom signed off, giving written permission for the marriage. What punishment should she get?

[Lionel Mandrake]

42. If the mom is okay with the marriage, what business is it of ours?

Maybe the mom likes the teacher. Maybe she didn't want to alienate her son. In any case, she hasn't committed a crime and doesn't deserve any punishment.

[Starry Messenger]

44. What business is any of it?

This story is from Jan. 2013. Was there some relevance to something? You want this private citizen, who is no longer a teacher, punished in some further manner? Ok. Like what?

[Lionel Mandrake]

45. No, I don't want this ex-teacher punished in some further manner.

I think losing her job was appropriate and sufficient punishment.

[hrmjustin]

43. there was 2 years between her marriage and her arrest. Why wasn't she prosecuted then?

[Lionel Mandrake]

46. good question.