why is Washington risking war with Russia?

[Enrique]

http://www.thenation.com/article/180825/why-washington-risking-war-russia

As The Nation has warned repeatedly, the unthinkable may now be rapidly unfolding in Ukraine: not just the new Cold War already under way but an actual war between US-led NATO and Russia. The epicenter is Ukraine’s eastern territory, known as the Donbass, a large industrial region heavily populated by Russian-speaking Ukrainian citizens and closely tied to its giant neighbor by decades of economic, political, cultural and family relations.

The shoot-down of Malaysian jetliner MH17 on July 17 should have compelled the US-backed government in Kiev to declare a prolonged cease-fire in its land and air attacks on nearby cities in order to honor the 298 victims, give international investigators safe access to the crash site, and begin peace talks. Instead, Kiev, with Washington’s backing, immediately intensified its attacks on those residential areas, vowing to “liberate” them from pro-Russian “terrorists,” as it brands resisters in eastern Ukraine, killing more innocent people. In response, Moscow is reportedly preparing to send heavy weapons to the “self-defenders” of the Donbass.

Now, according to a story in The New York Times of July 27, the White House may give Kiev sensitive intelligence information enabling it to pinpoint and destroy such Russian equipment, thereby, the Times article also suggests, risking “escalation with Russia.” To promote this major escalation, the Obama administration is alleging, without firm evidence, that Russia is already “firing artillery from its territory into Ukraine.” Virtually unreported, however, is repeated Ukrainian shelling of Russia’s own territory, which killed a resident on July 13.

In fact, Kiev has been Washington’s military proxy against Russia and its “compatriots” in eastern Ukraine for months. Since the political crisis began, Secretary of State John Kerry, CIA Director John Brennan and Vice President Joseph Biden (twice) have been in Kiev, followed by “senior US defense officials,” American military equipment and financial aid. Still more, a top US Defense Department official informed a Senate committee that the department’s “advisers” are now “embedded” in the Ukrainian defense ministry.

(...)

[Warren Stupidity]

1. We have lost our minds.

We think that nobody will ever escalate to full out war and that we can bully the Russians into submission in their own front yard. We might be right. The downside of wrong involves the potential for nuclear war, which is why 30 years ago, neither side did shit like this.

[hack89]

2. Because Russia will keeping gobbling up European territory

until someone stands up to them.

[RKP5637]

5. The core problem IMO is Putin, and IMO he's cut right from the old soviet dictators! I think

it's hard to tell where this is headed. I think he views compromise and a willingness to reach a solution as a weakness.

[TIMETOCHANGE]

12. Nazi Germany tried to gobble up as much as it could without war, then it led to war.

The smart move would be to have the Ukranian government legitimize the various militias in its country that refuse to disarm (most haven't and won't, they've learned their lesson), and see that most of pro-Ukranian population is armed and prepared to fight off the Russians. If a war is to be had let it be had in Ukraine, use the opportunity to take out as much of the Russian fleet as possible. And make Ukraine make Afghanistan look like a walk in the park for the Russians. Anti-aircraft and anti-tank tech is widely available and easy to come by in the international arms markets. Just ask the Israelis.

[hack89]

13. So your solution is a bloody conflict in Ukraine to bleed Russia white?

don't you think the people of Ukraine deserve peace without Russian interference?

[TIMETOCHANGE]

20. Of course they deserve a chance at peace.

Peace is always preferable. The problem is that Russia may not prefer it. So the smarter move in my opinion is to prepare for war in earnest and make it clear their will be costly consequences for war mongering.

Ukraine is still having its own internal issues and conflicts. Russia sees a wounded animal and disorganized military force on the ground. Ukraine moving to a militia-citizen model like Switzerland would help put things in perspective for Russia. Behind every blade of grass, every bush, an invader faces a highly armed and ruthless threat, then invasion stops looking so good.

Teach the Ukranians how to build hidden tunnel complexes for storing arms and organizing, teach them ambush tactics, give them anti-aircraft and anti-tank arms. Teach them IED techniques (not really hard). And make all this clear to the Russian populace that invasion will have consequences beyond and within their borders.

Appealing to a bully's compassion is a waste of breath. Those who tried that with Hitler didn't fair too well. Switzerland faired quite well. Oh and so did Finland all things considered.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Erect Bogeyman, wave flag, give money to the MIC, send troops, and talk about peace.

[leftstreet]

6. +1

[socialist_n_TN]

17. Yep. Wash, rinse, repeat...

nm

[KG]

4. coz the MIC needs all the faux enemies it get

[conservaphobe]

7. Russia has been given plenty of choices.

And they continue making the wrong ones.

The entire world is sick of Putin and his provocative actions.

No amount of finger pointing at the West by the Kremlin or those publications tainted by their tentacles is going to improve Putin's image and rectify the situation.

[TwilightGardener]

8. Can't trust The Nation's reporting on this.

They've been slanted pro-Russia, not objective--probably due to the Cohen/VandenHeuvel dealie.

[Igel]

15. One instance of slant.

Russia assumes that anything that happens in Ukraine is Kiev's fault.

Hence their response to MH17. It happened in Ukraine, ultimately since Kiev is bothering to fight, it's responsible. If it just let the rebels secede, and then get other regions to secede, there'd be no problem.

That's the attitude towards any shelling of Russia territory from Ukraine. Even when there are squads holding a border point and their only weapons are mortars, Russia reports artillery shells falling on their side. The rebels may shell the border point and beyond, into Russia, but it's "artillery fire from Ukraine"--which is immediately understood to mean "artillery fire by Ukrainian sources."

Now, if you're wedged between rebels and the border and are firing mortars, it's easy to figure out which way to point the mortar. These aren't horribly complicated pieces of equipment. Making sure they stop where you want them to and don't go an addition 100 yards, that can be tricky, but it means the Ukr forces may overshoot the rebels' positions.

What's ruled out is any overshooting of the Ukr force's position by rebel forces. A priori.

Although the nice runs by Russian helicopters and UAVs have kept that kind of thing to a minimum, serving as spotters and targeters for the rebel forces.

[burrowowl]

19. Read this article

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2014/07/29/us-supported-good-guys-firing-ballistic-missiles-ukraine

[Nuclear Unicorn]

9. How does the rebels shooting down a civilian plane make Ukraine obligated to stop fighting?

That makes no sense. All that does is give Putin and his rebels an armed heckler's veto.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. That was my first reaction, too.

Glad I'm not the only one who spotted that.

[davidn3600]

10. Because Putin is a nationalist that will keep going until someone stands up to him

That's the reality no one wants to admit.

Putin has approval ratings in Russia in the 80% range. So that emboldens him. And the Kremlin believes Eastern Europe is their backyard no matter what NATO says and no matter what those countries want for themselves.

[Demsrule86]

14. I fear some of the Neocons are pushing for war

These morons actually seem to believe we could use Nukes...insanity. I believe the right has gone mad. Why is it when Russia invaded Georgia, it was no big deal but Ukraine is? It seems to me this is madness.

[Igel]

16. What are the alternatives?

Hey, Mr. Putin, the West has a care package for you. 40 million Ukrainians, gas reserves, and a very nifty geopolitically strategic position.

We're willing to sacrifice those people for peace with us. Please, don't hurt us.

We tried that once. Perhaps The Nation would like Obama to go to Russia and return with a white paper granting the US territory of Ukraine to Russia and declaring that we shall have peace in our time?

(Do we really have Ukraine to give as a present? Chamberlain gave Hitler the Sudetenland. Doesn't that count as even a bit worse than imperialism? I mean, it's one thing taking a land and people for your own possession. It's quite another to assume the ethical and moral responsibility for somebody else's imperialism, when all you get out of it is a promise of non-aggression.)

The problem is the goal. Putin's goal isn't just to unite all the good Slavs under Big Brother's banner (he views Russia as the big brother to the other Slavs). He wants a Eurasia, which both brings glory and prosperity to Russia but, almost as important, will serve to balance and defeat the US and the West.

Now, I doubt many are actually in Russia's corner because they have it hot for Russia. But quite a few are in Russia's corner because they don't see how Russia could be as bad as the US. At worse it's just as bad. They obviously have focused on a certain view of US history to the near exclusion of most others. What you don't know may not always hurt you, but what you don't know really does let you draw really odd conclusions.

[amandabeech]

18. Stephen F. Cohen cannot bring himself to criticize anything about Russia.

There are some people, both average Americans and opinion leaders, who cannot seem to be the least bit critical of anything that the US does. The US could blow up the Vatican with a nuke and those people would find a way to say that the US was doing the right thing.

Cohen is the same way with Russia.

He sometimes makes good points, but most people end up taking what he says with a truckload of salt when it comes to Russia.

[whistler162]

21. Hey appeasement worked well for that guy

named Chamberlain so why shouldn't the U.S. just let the Russia roll over the Ukraine. They will stop there after all.