Ebola patients, US citizens, are being evacuated to the U.S. from Liberia.

[pnwmom]

Last edited Thu Jul 31, 2014, 08:48 PM - Edit history (1)

I hope we know what to do with them when they get here. At least one of them, Dr. Brantley, contracted the illness despite being vigilant with all standard safety measures.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/31/health/ebola-outbreak/

(CNN) -- A U.S.-contracted medical charter flight left Cartersville, Georgia, Thursday to evacuate two American charity workers in Liberia infected with Ebola hemorrhagic fever, a source told CNN.

A CNN crew saw the airplane, a long-range business jet, depart shortly after 5 p.m. ET. The plane matched the description provided by the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

It was not immediately known when the two Americans -- identified as Dr. Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol -- would arrive in the United States, or where the plane would land.

At least one of the two will be taken to a hospital at Emory University, near the headquarters of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, hospital officials told CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Brantly and Writebol are described in stable but grave condition, with both reportedly taking a turn for the worse overnight, according to statements released Thursday by the faith-based charity Samaritan's Purse.

SNIP

__________________________

And a bit of context about the CDC:

http://www.newsweek.com/recent-cdc-anthrax-and-smallpox-mishaps-signal-potential-dangers-259923

In June, the CDC revealed what it represented to be an accidental anthrax mishap. But in the investigation that followed, shocking conditions at federal laboratories were revealed. Long-forgotten smallpox samples had been discovered in a storage room at the National Institutes of Health’s Food Administration campus in Bethesda, Maryland, and cross-contamination of harmless samples with a potentially deadly flu virus had occurred in the CDC’s infectious disease lab. Scientists had been transferring dangerous materials in Ziploc bags and using expired disinfectants. There were accounts of torn gloves, duct tape repairs, keys left in storage locks, unauthorized employees wandering into off-limit areas, and exhaust hoods blowing fumes in the wrong direction.

Americans should worry—not just about these labs working with select agents, but also, as as Dr. Nancy Kingsbury, managing director, Government Accountability Office (GAO) noted, about the other, lesser pathogens, not on the ‘VIP’ list so to speak, that could nonetheless also cause great harm if mishandled.

[msongs]

1. what could possibly go wrong with this? nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

14. Ask me again in a month --

[LittleBlue]

2. This should not be allowed

If even the top experts on ebola can contract the virus, I don't trust bringing anyone with this back.

[msanthrope]

5. So we should put third-world health workers in jeopardy while they treat these patients?

Or should we get them to the safest and most secure place to keep them?

[MohRokTah]

6. Missionaries.

These two are missionaries.

[msanthrope]

8. These poor bastards. They are Americans, and we should take care of our own. nt

[MohRokTah]

9. They knew the risk when they decided to evangelize their religion.

I'm not sure I'm okay with the risk of bringing infected people onto this continent.

[msanthrope]

16. As an atheist, I get what you are saying. But as an American, I think we have two duties:

1) We don't leave Americans behind, and 2) We don't put the burden on Liberia to care for our citizens.

Given our historical relationship with Liberia, I think we have a duty here.

I'm not happy with the decision, either, but I think it is the right thing to do.

[LisaL]

32. Our citizens voluntarily went to Liberia and worked with Ebola pateints there.

I presume they knew the risks.

[CreekDog]

207. so just effing leave them wherever

honestly, i'd trade those researchers for some in this thread.

considering the good those researchers have done compared to the complainers here.

[Sheepshank]

288. and how you would treat Veterans that contract a contagious virus while in combat?

what about Americans that contract diseases even when they are not overseas in humanitarian circumstances? sheesh!

[pnwmom]

90. But in this case Liberia welcomed our citizens to provide medical care for their citizens.

I don't think the burden on Liberia should be the issue here.

I think we may have a duty to our doctors -- but I don't see the duty to Liberia. These doctors got sick trying to take care of Liberians. Liberia can hardly blame the US for that.

[msanthrope]

111. You don't see the duty to Liberia????? Perhaps you should look up the history of Liberia. nt

[pnwmom]

115. I don't think we have a particular duty in this situation, not. The doctors involved

were there to provide medical care for Liberian people with Ebola. This isn't something to blame the US for. Our previous wrongs to Liberia don't require us to take any particular action in this case.

As I said, we may have a duty to the doctors, however.

[msanthrope]

120. We have a duty to our American citizens. Should you ever travel overseas, I hope you never face the

situation where your fellow citizens debate whether the US should bring you back for treatment.

As for Liberia....well, that's a debt we will never repay.

[LisaL]

129. Do we not have a duty to American citizens that are already here?

[msanthrope]

136. Yes. Can you explain how you are at risk for Ebola? nt

[MohRokTah]

151. I have traveled overseas. If I ever contracted Ebola in my travels, I would HOPE the US...

would never allow me re-entry.

[msanthrope]

167. I would hope that in the default situation that these Americans find themselves in, they would.

The thing is, we don't know if they are coming home to die, or to be treated. The CDC has made a decision, and perhaps it is only to secure the recovery of bodies.

We simply do not know. In the meantime, I think we can assume there are many, many vectors to this disease. We need calm, rational monitoring.

[MohRokTah]

173. Well, trained medical professionals who understand how Ebola is spread have contracted the disease.

That said, there are only a few explanations.

1) They actually didn't understand the ways Ebola is spread.

2) They did not take appropriate precautions to keep from being infected.

3) Ebola has evolved to be spread by some way previously unknown.

Number 3 is the one that concerns me, especially if that is why the CDC is bringing them back.

[Jenoch]

189. You missed number 4.

Shit happens.

[MohRokTah]

192. All three combined includes any permutation of "Shit happens". eom

[Jenoch]

228. Numbers 1 and 2 do not fit your thoughts.

[msanthrope]

204. It went airborne. Perhaps the CDC just wants the bodies intact if they cannot treat

them.

[MohRokTah]

206. I doubt it went airborne.

If number 3 is the issue, most likely it becomes communicable before expressing itself and is communicated via touch or some other vector besides being airborne.

And if that happened they may want the bodies to insure they get the appropriate strain for testing.

[Sheepshank]

289. You also missed the possibility that....

the disease was contracted outside of the medical facility (where everyone wears protective clothing and extreme precautions are employed.)

For all of your ranting, you simply DON'T KNOW how the disease was contracted by the US citizens abroad.....and if there was a failure at the medical facility 100% of the facility workers would be sick.

These doctors and health workers presumambly had lives outside of the facility that included not being suited up from head to toe in some sort of a viral barrier. That is not the case once the patient arrived in the USA. There will be no contct outside of the facility.

sheesh...get off the alarmist bandwagon and think it through...or you could contact Trump. Your alarmist rhetoric has a champion you may appreciate.

[MohRokTah]

290. You missed multiple postings by me after it was made clear proper precautions were being taken.

Originally all reports made it sound like they were simply being brought back on a charter jet.

Once it was made clear CDC protocols would be in force from the moment they were in contact to the current time, I had no problem with it.

[Sheepshank]

292. yes...I saw it down thread...too bad you didn't state the correction up thread.

still even with your newest stand, I find your previous stand you be cold, cruel, and too hasty to jump to conclusions. You have no idea how these people contracted the illness and chose instead to try and create fear and havoc where non should have existed.

[MohRokTah]

296. I agree with your findings.

It was cold and harsh of me. I should have never posted it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

178. Not to mention there is a vaccine to be tested starting in September....to conclude in January....

these two may be important for saving the lives of thousands upon thousands more

[pnwmom]

238. But what the CDC is saying is that the reason the disease has been contained to Africa

for so long is that there aren't many, many vectors to this disease. It can only be transmitted while there are symptoms, and at that point almost all people are too sick to travel, even if they wanted to. So it's been extremely rare for anyone sick with this to travel out of Africa.

[MohRokTah]

150. As an American I get what you are saying. But as a human being, I think we have one duty

1) Contain deadly viruses.

[XemaSab]

54. So because they believe in Jesus they're BAD?

These two people felt like their faith compelled them to help people who were going to die without major medical intervention. They knew there were risks, but they did it anyway.

Would you work in an Ebola hospital? Why or why not?

If the answer is not, then do you really think you should be judging their motives?

[MohRokTah]

84. No because they evangelize a religion they are rude.

Choosing to be that rude in a third world country came with risks they accepted, but no longer want to accept.

I don't want to accept risk associated with their fucked up rudeness when it's possible they could affect the entire continent.

[whathehell]

102. That's for the third world country in question to decide, not you.

If they were atheists, you'd probably be paying their way home yourself.

Your bigotry could not be more obvious.

[MohRokTah]

153. They knew the risks. They contracted a deadly virus. They should never be allowed back in the US.

eom

[Jenoch]

232. You seem to be predjudiced against anyone with a religious conviction.

Would you allow anyone with a disease to fly on American airline companies' airplanes?

[MohRokTah]

234. No, I'm prejudiced against anybody infected with a virus that has a 90% mortality rate. eom

[whathehell]

274. Yeah, except the "noble medical workers from Doctors Without Borders"

Got it.

[Jenoch]

276. Your reding comprehension needs work.

Ebola mrtality is UP TO 90%.

[Jenoch]

239. It's an interesting position, that has been decided wrong.

[whathehell]

247. Yes, but the "risks" be damned, you make it clear it's their being

Christian missionaries that you hate, and it's a huge

factor (if not the only one) in your judgment of the situation.

You want to punish them for their, um "rudeness".

As I said earlier, if they were atheists, I think you'd a

have a far greater tolerance for their homecoming.

[MohRokTah]

249. So now you can read minds?

I don't care if they worship the Invisible Pink Unicorn, if they contract Ebola, they should lose the right to return to the US so long as they are contagious. In most cases (up to 90%), that means they die where they are.

Too bad, so sad. They went there over their evangelical idiocy, caught a deadly disease, and now don't want to pay the price for their own idiocy.

Fuck 'em.

All I pointed out was that these two people were missionaries, not some noble medical workers like Doctors without Borders.

[whathehell]

270. No, I can read posts..

Can you?

You might start by reading your own.

To give you an idea of your inconsistency, you start by saying

that it's not a matter of what religious believe, but a strict matter of

objective pragmatism about Ebola infection.

In your very next paragraph, you mention the "evangelical idiocy"

of the infected missionaries and how "they can PAY for their "idiocy"

-- "Fuck 'em"!

Finally, you negatively compare them with the "noble medical workers"

of Doctors Without Borders. They, it's clear by your estimate,

don't deserve the death sentence you'd give the "idiots"

Thankfully, the decision makers in this matter aren't afflicted with

your almost laughable level of bigotry.

[MohRokTah]

271. Apparently, you can't. eom

[whathehell]

272. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Apparently, I CAN, bro, and a lot better than you.

[mnhtnbb]

253. I agree. I'm going to get flamed for this...

but let them live out their choice--their faith--and put their hope in their proclaimed Saviour.

[XemaSab]

103. Helping Ebola patients in the name of Jesus is going to ruin Africa?

(Also, you are aware that Liberia is 85% already Christian, right? RIGHT?)

[Hekate]

143. Don't let logic and facts get in the way of whatever it is they're peddling.

[MohRokTah]

152. No, contractnig Ebola should keep you permanently banned from re-entry into the US. eom

[XemaSab]

155. Even after they recover and they're not contagious?

Interesting...

What country do you suggest that we repatriate recovered Americans to?

[MohRokTah]

157. IF they recover and are no longer contagious, yes, they should be allowed in.

That's a pretty big if, though.

[treestar]

282. There is no way a US citizen can be denied entry back into the United States

No other country has to keep a US citizen there.

[MohRokTah]

283. My apologies

The original stories made it sound as if their church was bringing these people back on a private charter flight. Since discovering that they were following the standard CDC protocol and using an aircraft designed for this sort of transport, my attitude to the situation has done a complete 180.

So long as proper quarantine protocols are in effect, I certainly believe people should be brought back. My objection was based solely upon the initial implication that there would be no such protocols in place.

[MikeW]

295. actually your wrong

Under HPSD regs anyone including americans can be denied entry by the feds esp. if your suspected of being ill with a dangerous contagious illness. You can also be quarantined against your will as well if your suspected of having a serious infectious illness if and until you are medically cleared.

Thats been in place for many years.

[treestar]

299. No, I'm not

Where would they go? Any other country has the right to send them back. Quarantine, maybe. Otherwise cite the statutes and regs. and explain what country has to take them. Or can they be dumped into the ocean? That would help contain a contagious disease.

[LanternWaste]

254. I feel the same about those who evangelize denial of treatment in the U.S. for U.S. citizens.

"No because they evangelize a religion they are rude..."

I feel the same about those who evangelize denial of treatment in the U.S. for U.S. citizens.

[MohRokTah]

261. Cool, then you can take credit if Ebola starts spreading in the US

[whathehell]

116. Well, sure, and besides, if they've Christians, they can't

be REAL Americans anyway, can they?

[YarnAddict]

255. Missionaries

do a lot of good in places where their skills are needed. Especially medical missionaries.

[MohRokTah]

262. That's your opinion and you're entitlted to it. eom

[YarnAddict]

263. Well, thank you, and

if you think that treating sick people, delivering babies safely, teaching local people about basic hygiene, performing surgeries, and saving lives isn't a noble thing just because YOU think their motives aren't pure enough to suit YOU, well, then, I hope you like having other people judge your motives.

[MohRokTah]

264. People judge other people every moment of every day. eom

[Hugabear]

285. Good to see that you agree with Donald Trump

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025335195

[MohRokTah]

287. My mind was changed when I found out they were using proper protocols

Originally every story made it sound like their church was using a charter flight to bring them back.

Later, well after my posts in this thread, it was reported they were using a proper aircraft designed for standard CDC protocols.

That made all the difference for me.

[Hekate]

92. I'm with you. May the Goddess take them into Her merciful care. I hope that's non-missionary enough

... for some here.

[Jenoch]

241. You are so right.

All of the emigrants at the southern U.S. border who ha e any hint of disease should be turned away at the border. Of course this is only your correct decision as the right thing to do.

[Jenoch]

184. These two went there to help with the Ebola outbreak.

Their religion is what prmpted them to attempt to help the West Africans, and you have a problem with that?

[MohRokTah]

186. I have a major problem with all evangelizing. eom

[Jenoch]

218. What evangelizing?

They were there to help with the ebola outbreak?

[MohRokTah]

220. AS missionaries. eom

[eShirl]

229. "Our ministry is all about Jesus—first, last, and always."

http://www.samaritanspurse.org/our-ministry/about-us/

As our teams work in crisis areas of the world, people often ask, “Why did you come?” The answer is always the same: “We have come to help you in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.” Our ministry is all about Jesus—first, last, and always. As the Apostle Paul said, “For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake” (2 Corinthians 4:5, NIV).

MISSION STATEMENT
Samaritan’s Purse is a nondenominational evangelical Christian organization providing spiritual and physical aid to hurting people around the world. Since 1970, Samaritan’s Purse has helped meet needs of people who are victims of war, poverty, natural disasters, disease, and famine with the purpose of sharing God’s love through His Son, Jesus Christ.

The organization serves the Church worldwide to promote the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[LisaL]

231. They also think Jesus will deliver him from the virus.

“Amber and their two children are staying in an undisclosed location to protect their privacy. We continue to believe that God will deliver Kent from this deadly virus."

http://news.wbt.com/newsroom/article.cfm?id=29252109-E746-F92D-05749C9681DDE7E4&code=1110

[msanthrope]

246. So??? Can you imagine the terror and fear they must feel? Are you judging them for clinging to

what they can when their husband and father is gravely ill?

You know, I am a misanthropic atheist. I have no doubt that I am viewed on this board as one of the meanest and most cynical humans to ever walk the Earth.

So when even I am telling you that it's way out of line to judge these people right now, my suggestion is that you take that event as a call to experience some personal growth.

[joshcryer]

225. And?

[MohRokTah]

226. They knew the risks and accepted them. eom

[joshcryer]

227. They apparently accepted a flight home, too.

[jen63]

11. I'm with you.

With all the unrest that will go on, I'm glad they made this decision. No telling what would have happened to them with all the mistrust of health care workers. The two who are already sick, I believe are being taken to the CDC. Certainly the best place to be.

[840high]

196. They're being taken to Emory Hospital.

[LittleBlue]

15. And if the safety procedures fail?

The health workers who went over there had a choice, we don't. Why risk the small chance of a pandemic?

It's not just alarmists calling for this, either. Grayson called for a 90-day travel ban for citizens of those countries. I think, logically, it should be extended to anyone who has been in those countries since the outbreak began. Containment is more important than anything else right now.

[msanthrope]

18. Well, then we are fucked. Then again, how many flights from those countries have landed here? nt

[LittleBlue]

19. We aren't fucked

This virus kills with such certainty that it remains localized and dies out. But this is the worst outbreak in recorded medical history. No one, so far as we know, has landed with the virus. We are bringing people in who have been verified to carry this virus.

It's insane.

[msanthrope]

20. Should we leave them to die? nt

[LittleBlue]

23. We should spare no expense to send them the treatment they need

But do so in Africa. If the facilities in Africa can't provide the best, that's unfortunate.

[msanthrope]

24. So what you want is third-world healthcare workers to face the fear of infection, but

not Americans?

[Nobel_Twaddle_III]

31. yes , these countries should be under quarantine.

[LittleBlue]

33. I want to limit the spread of this virus

If it had happened in Los Angeles, I'd have said the same thing.

[msanthrope]

34. And yet, you presume to know more about limiting the spread of the virus than the CDC. nt

[LittleBlue]

42. No, but I don't necessarily think it should be their decision alone

Since we are all at risk, we should all have a say in whether the carriers are brought into this country.

Sierra Leone's top expert on this virus just died from this strain of Ebola. His knowledge of the disease did not prevent him from being infected.

[LisaL]

44. And a Liberian doctor died too.

Both took all kind of precautions and still got it.

[LittleBlue]

46. Yes, that's what I've heard

This current strain is really scary.

[Sheepshank]

291. You have no idea how they got ill...to presume that it will spread in the USA is spreading lies

the disease could easily have been contracted outside of the medical facility. What precuations do you think exist in the villages and streets? That is not the case once the patient arrives in the USA. There will be no contact outside of the facility.

For all of your ranting, you simply DON'T KNOW how the disease was contracted by the US citizens abroad.....and if there was a failure at the medical facility 90-100% of the facility workers would be sick.

[msanthrope]

49. There are already carriers here. Already. nt

[LittleBlue]

52. Is this speculation or has it been verified?

I don't think any of them should be allowed into the US if we can prevent it.

[msanthrope]

57. Do the math. I'm serious. Do the simple math. How many flights out of these countries to the US?

How many possible vectors? If it went airborne, as it seems to have, how many possible venues?

It is improbable that there are not already cases in the US.

It is entirely possible that the CDC wishes to bring these people back because they know they will want the corpses.

[LittleBlue]

64. No, Ebola is different

It's not like the flu. Due to how it's transmitted (from wild animals like bats and monkeys), it tends to stay in small rural areas. And due to its mortality rate and horrific symptoms, it has never spread to become a pandemic. People who get it are too sick and die at too high a rate for it to spread effectively.

You can't just say "well it's probably here already" because this virus traditionally doesn't spread very easily. Which we should be thankful for, since if Ebola could spread easily, it would be worse than the Black Death. And if you're right, we had better hope that person dies a quick death and doesn't infect anyone else. I just don't see taking any more chances than necessary with something like this.

[msanthrope]

70. Okay--let's review here. You brought up the Black Death. The Black Death went airborne--pneumatic

plague, as opposed to simply bubonic plague, according to the latest research. It wasn't all rats and fleas.

There's every reason to believe this particular strain of Ebola has gone airborne. How do you think doctors got it?

The most prudent way to act is to assume that Ebola is already here, and closely monitor any possible hospital admittances.

[LittleBlue]

81. From Pigs to Monkeys, Ebola Goes Airborne

Growing concerns over 'in the air' transmission of Ebola


Canadian scientists have shown that the deadliest form of the ebola virus could be transmitted by air between species.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-20341423

The truth is, we don't have much experience dealing with this disease. We don't know that it can't go airborne.

When these outbreaks happen, they begin and end so quickly that it's difficult to study. Before this outbreak, the previous outbreak with the highest number of infections was 425. Most don't go past 200 people.

[LisaL]

83. I think this strain went airborne.

The doctors infected were using protective gear and still got it. Thus it seems much more infectious than what we are led to believe.

[LittleBlue]

93. Yeah, I read speculation that it went airborne this time

Due to the number of medical personnel who contracted Ebola, and also because this outbreak is by far the worst ever.

[VanillaRhapsody]

180. which is why we need to study it....right away....

[Sheepshank]

293. false premise

the doctors are not suited up 24 hours of every day and camped out at the medical facility 24/7. They could easily have contracted the diseas outside of the hospital setting. I'd read there is a 2 week incubation period.

[msanthrope]

89. Exactly...and because it has gone airborne, it is probably already here. But that's not a reason to

panic.

The CDC knows its shit. This isn't the Walking Dead.

[muriel_volestrangler]

248. Let's review - the plague is a bacterial disease

so saying "Ebola can go airborne, like the plague" is about as useful as saying "it could migrate, like killer bees".

"How do you think doctors got it?" Doctors frequently come into contact with bodily fluids of patients. They get on surfaces and clothing. They try to take all necessary measures, but when you're dealing with a lot of patients, and people who may have already been caring for the patients, in a hospital where the design and equipment won't be as good as a modern American hospital for preventing contamination, mistakes can happen. No, there is not 'every reason to believe this particular strain of Ebola has gone airborne'. We can't rule that out, but there's no indication that it has.

[msanthrope]

258. There's every indication it has...but still no reason to panic. Even airborne....its worst form...

still no reason not to get our people home and take care of them.

[Hugabear]

294. No, no, no, no it hasn't gone airborne. Please provide a reputable link stating that it has done so.

Every single reputable that I've read thus far states that the Ebola virus can only be spread by direct contact with bodily fluids from an infected person. It has NOT mutated into an airborne contagion yet.

If you believe that it has, please provide a reputable link showing so.

If this virus was airborne, then why aren't there hundreds of thousands of infected people? After all, this virus has hit some very large and densely populated cities in western Africa.

[pnwmom]

158. So the CDC is lying when its says there are no cases in the US?

I am less worried about the CDC not following proper precautions here than I am about contagion being spread as a result of the use of the airplane -- since the organism may prove to be airborne. How will they be able to sanitize the whole airplane so it can be used again?

[msanthrope]

163. No--I think given the contagion period, we should expect that cases are already here. nt

[pnwmom]

165. The CDC says no. They say that patients are only contagious when they are sick,

and with Ebola they are so sick, they don't get on the plane.

That's why it didn't spread years ago.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/ebola-outbreak-worsens-cdc-issues-level-3-travel-w/ngrng/

The CDC noted that transmission of Ebola happens through direct contact with bodily fluids of an infected, symptomatic person or exposure to objects like needles that have been contaminated with infected secretions.

[VanillaRhapsody]

181. that was before it became possible airborne....now we don't know...

[pnwmom]

214. The CDC is sticking to that view -- but I agree that we probably don't really know.

Not until they figure out how Dr. Brantley got it,despite all his precautions.

[pnwmom]

96. Dr. Brantley was taking all the precautions recommended by the CDC.

They are not certain how he managed to contract the illness.

[LisaL]

99. The other two who areadly died were using all kind of precautions as well.

Which tell you how much they know about it's transmission, doesn't it?

[pnwmom]

101. And this is the same CDC that was just discovered not protecting its smallpox stores.

Doesn't give me a great deal of confidence.

[msanthrope]

105. It went airborne. But that's still not a reason to panic. nt

[pnwmom]

112. I'm not. Wondering about precautions isn't panicking. nt

[msanthrope]

114. I trust the CDC to take the proper precautions. nt

[pnwmom]

122. I trust the CDC less today than I did a month ago.

http://www.newsweek.com/recent-cdc-anthrax-and-smallpox-mishaps-signal-potential-dangers-259923

In June, the CDC revealed what it represented to be an accidental anthrax mishap. But in the investigation that followed, shocking conditions at federal laboratories were revealed. Long-forgotten smallpox samples had been discovered in a storage room at the National Institutes of Health’s Food Administration campus in Bethesda, Maryland, and cross-contamination of harmless samples with a potentially deadly flu virus had occurred in the CDC’s infectious disease lab. Scientists had been transferring dangerous materials in Ziploc bags and using expired disinfectants. There were accounts of torn gloves, duct tape repairs, keys left in storage locks, unauthorized employees wandering into off-limit areas, and exhaust hoods blowing fumes in the wrong direction.

Americans should worry—not just about these labs working with select agents, but also, as as Dr. Nancy Kingsbury, managing director, Government Accountability Office (GAO) noted, about the other, lesser pathogens, not on the ‘VIP’ list so to speak, that could nonetheless also cause great harm if mishandled.

[msanthrope]

127. You really think the same people who forgot smallpox in a storage container are working on this? nt

[pnwmom]

128. I really think that all humans are capable of error.

And there is zero room for error in this situation.

I'd feel better if they knew how the organism was spread and how Dr. Branteley got it.

[msanthrope]

140. Do you really think the CDC doesn't know how he got it? And they don't have a handle

on it?

Look....it's not time to panic yet.

[LisaL]

142. Yes, I really think CDC has no idea how he got it.

[pnwmom]

162. There are only two choices. They say they don't know how he got it.

So they're lying or they're telling the truth.

[pnwmom]

95. Liberians are already facing the threat of infection just from living there.

The US doctors who travel there aren't.

[clarice]

35. +1. nt

[Caretha]

137. You are very logical

emotion is ruling the day, once again.

[morningfog]

183. Yes. They knew the risk and they voluntarily took the risk.

We could send help, but not bring them back here.

[dixiegrrrrl]

284. "This virus kills with such certainty that it remains localized and dies out. " Not True

It has a 2 to 21 day incubation stage, plenty of time for people to travel with it.
One man was an airplane passenger on 2 flights, was sick, throwing up, diarrhea in the plane bathrooms. He died.
CDC now trying to track down some 30,000 people he came into contact with on the planes and airports.

It's now hit four countries: Sierra Leone, Guinea, and Liberia have been joined by Nigeria, which this week saw its first case, after an infected Liberian man flew to the Nigerian city of Lagos, which is also Africa's largest city.
There are also fears the disease has spread to the country of Togo, where that man's flight had a stopover.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/23/5930311/ebola-virus-disease-outbreak-africa-facts-guinea

[elehhhhna]

30. not to scare you but tons

Lots of oil biz in W Africa now. LOTS of people traveling there on business & back. And Africans who are inpats here working for oil - like to take the kids back to Nigeria on summer vaca while school is out.

Ebola's probably in Houston already.

[TwilightGardener]

39. There's quite a bit of our military/special forces in various places in Africa, too--

I hope the Pentagon is on top of all this.

[msanthrope]

43. It doesn't scare me at all. Ebola is already in the US. nt

[Nobel_Twaddle_III]

82. and your proof for this statement is ?

[msanthrope]

86. Dude, the Reston Virgina case alone should prove to you just how this virus moves. As to the

current strain?

I think it's airborne. I think it's here, based simply on the number of flights between here and the infected countries. And I think there's little to fear. The CDC has monitoring and protocols in place.

Like SARS, this will be controlled and contained.

[Nobel_Twaddle_III]

106. you thinking it is here, is far different then your speculation.

the Reston Virgina case
Macaques found to be or suspected to be infected with RESTV were euthanized and the facility was sterilized

[msanthrope]

108. And the workers? nt

[Nobel_Twaddle_III]

119. were propery clothed.

I have cleaning to do to get ready for the week end.

I have to bleach the Ebola out of my nasty bathroom.

[jen63]

156. Dr. Brantley's

wife and children just got back to the states, a few days before he started showing symptoms. They have been monitored this past week. I don't think there's any evidence that this has gone airborne, but I'm sure there are many more than this family who have entered the states after being around people who had been exposed. It would be naive to think otherwise.

I think the main problem with the healthcare workers and doctors contracting it is a lack of supplies and proper hospitals. They have to reuse scrubs, shields, rubber boots etc. Not the most ideal of circumstances. It's not like they could burn or autoclave everything; there just isn't the infrastructure for it. The woman who has it was one of the volunteers trying to disinfect everything.

I don't think it's time to panic yet, but it definitely needs to be taken very seriously. This is a nasty thing.

[muriel_volestrangler]

252. Going from the Wikipedia article, 1 worker cut himself while doing a necropsy, and didn't become ill

Blood samples were taken from 178 animal handlers during the incident.[11] Of them, six eventually seroconverted, testing positive using ELISA. They remained, however, asymptomatic. In January 1990, an animal handler at Hazelton cut himself while performing a necropsy on the liver of an infected Cynomolgus. Under the direction of the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) the animal handler was placed under surveillance for the duration of the incubation period. When the animal handler failed to become ill, it was concluded that the virus had a low pathogenicity in humans.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reston_virus

and those other 6 didn't become ill either; only 6 out of 178 handlers showed that sign, which, given they were handling the monkeys before it was known they needed to take precautions, shows it's not very infectious to humans.

[morningfog]

194. You think it's airborne, but nothing has confirmed that. You assume it is here, but

no one has shown symptoms in the US. Carriers are only contagious when showing symptoms, as far as we know. And, as far as we know, it is not in the US and it is not airborne.

[MohRokTah]

202. I doubt if it's airborne.

I don't doubt the possibility that it has become communicable earlier than in previous outbreaks, and via touch if it has.

[elehhhhna]

281. UTMB Galveston.

Ebola, Reston, Marburg, pox and shit

[pnwmom]

168. The CDC say it isn't -- because the disease is only spread when a person is both

infected AND having actual symptoms. The symptoms begin suddenly and severely, and people are usually too sick to fly.

At least, that's what the CDC currently thinks, and how it explains the fact that this illness didn't spread more widely long ago.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/ebola-outbreak-worsens-cdc-issues-level-3-travel-w/ngrng/

"The CDC noted that transmission of Ebola happens through direct contact with bodily fluids of an infected, symptomatic person or exposure to objects like needles that have been contaminated with infected secretions."

[LisaL]

193. The one american who died from it did manage to fly despite the symptoms.

He was visiting his sister and got it from her. Then flew with it. Who knows how many people got infected as a result.

[Aerows]

205. And it can be transmitted by

saliva and sweat, too. It's far more hardy than HIV, though obviously sexual contact will just about guarantee infection, but sneezing, sweat, etc. can transmit it if it gets in a person's eyes or mouth.

This is nothing to play with. People that survive it also remain contagious for up to seven weeks.

[pnwmom]

213. Right. He flew from Liberia to Nigeria, where they took him off the plane.

It is scary.

[pnwmom]

161. The CDC theory is that this disease has been contained because it isn't contagious

until there are symptoms, and the symptoms are so sudden and severe that people are too sick to fly.

But there is a Minnesotan who proved that wasn't true. From Liberia he flew to Nigeria and would have flown on to the US except airline personnel discovered he was sick and got him off the plane. Meanwhile, he exposed a whole plane full of people.

[LisaL]

236. Yes, people clearly travel even with the symptoms.

Apparently five people who shared a taxi with Ebola infected woman got Ebola and died.

[snooper2]

269. You have REALLY watched too many sci-fi movies

LOL

[shraby]

3. I can't imagine the reasoning behind it. It's a fool's errand..big-time.

Who in the h3ll made this sort of decision? They should be called on the carpet right now and the mission cancelled. Keep the ebola virus where it is right now.

[msanthrope]

7. right--so the Liberians can put their lives on the line caring for these Americans, but we can't?

We should take care of our own.

[ecstatic]

169. I usually agree with you, but until someone explains how those doctors caught the virus,

all the skepticism and concern is 100% warranted. Perhaps it IS airborne now. Maybe it's mutated and that's why they caught the virus. Atlanta is home to the busiest airport in the world. If 1 to 3 doctors or nurses make the same mistakes here, the entire country (if not the world) could get shut down.

[msanthrope]

172. You really think they are landing in Hartsfield? nt

[ecstatic]

177. No, but I think healthcare professionals and others who come in contact with him will be

traveling in and out of state for various reasons. We can only hope that they don't make a mistake (or that the virus hasn't become airborne).

[pnwmom]

171. These Americans had put their lives on the line to care for Liberians.

There's that.

[davidn3600]

10. CDC probably wants to monitor the results of the experimental serum in a more controlled environment

[msanthrope]

26. Exactly. nt

[moriah]

265. There are *very* few labs capable of handling Ebola, the CDC and USAMRID are two of the few.

Also, after Ebola Reston, at least we know USAMRID has a quarantine unit capable of handling potential Ebola patients. Guess we get to put potential into practice. If they were infected through either patient contact or lab work, we're far more capable of treating them safely than hospitals in Liberia are.

Maybe we ought to build a lab and quarantine unit on an island or something? Oh, wait, this usually only affects people with a bit of color to their skin. We never were *that* worried. Maybe we will now.

[jen63]

4. Poor, selfless people.

I think I read somewhere that they are going to the CDC. Apparently they wanted to try to give Brantley an experimental serum. He refused it and told them to give it to his co worker. Hero.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. They got experimental treatment in the works

At least one of the two will be taken to a hospital at Emory University, near the headquarters of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, hospital officials told CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

It is not just about taking care of them. They flew the serum, but I am betting this is partly it. If the serum works, next stop, Liberia.

[LisaL]

36. Why doesn't somebody gives them that serum while they are in Liberia?

I would not go anywhere near that hospital.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Oh this going to be a l-4 biological isolation

Show run by CDC. And it has to do with laboratory research conditions. Informed consent went out the window.

[LisaL]

41. From what I read, the woman already got a dose of the serum while in Liberia.

While the man got a blood from another surviving Ebola patient injected into him (WTF?).
So seems like laboratory research conditions already went out the window.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Yup

Which makes me suspect that this strain of Ebola has become easier to transmit...that could be a real problem.

[LisaL]

47. Yea, I agree. It seems it mutated and much easiter to transmit.

So, question remains. Why is US bringing Ebola patients here? Do we have too many people, or what?

[msanthrope]

50. Because we already have Ebola carriers here. nt

[LisaL]

73. And you know that how?

[msanthrope]

76. Answered elsewhere on thread. nt

[Nobel_Twaddle_III]

91. no, you did not provide proof you just speculated based on air traffic.

[TBF]

147. She has provided no cites - it's a guess. nt

[morningfog]

195. They don't. They are talking out of their ass.

They could end up being right, but they are just assuming.

[magical thyme]

179. They already gave her the serum, yesterday

Unfortunately, today her condition has worsened in spite of the serum.

[LisaL]

203. And the doctor got injected with blood from surviving Ebola patient.

Also in worsened condition.
Obviously all these treatments are experimental and nobody has a clue if they work.

[magical thyme]

209. transfusing blood from recovered patients has been tried before

results have been mixed.

The hope is that there will be antibodies present to help push back the virus.

All treatments beyond supportive care at this point are experimental.

The 2nd week after onset of symptoms is when patients either enter the hemorrhagic phase or recover.

Flying them to the US is very risky for them. The stress from the long flight can do more harm than the good of the higher quality care here.

[LisaL]

211. I realize that's what they are hoping for.

But injecting blood from someone else has got to be very risky.
I guess they figured he has nothing to lose.
Both of the Americans are said to be in very bad shape.
I am not sure they will make it over here at all.
Germany was going to take Dr. Khan but he died before he could be transferred.

[magical thyme]

216. they would have performed a type, screen and x-match prior to the xfusion

Which eliminate the biggest risk of fatal reaction due to incompatible type or unexpected antibodies to RBC antigens.

The Samaritan Purse website lists their condition as grave, which was what I saw elsewhere yesterday and the day before; all other reports I've seen have been from one of his mentors yesterday stating that he has been on his computer and up and about.

I saw something from Nancy Writebol's son this evening stating that she is "very weak."

[LisaL]

221. He was on the computer in the early stages of the disease.

From later reports, his condition got worse. Which how it goes with Ebola.

[magical thyme]

223. I was reading that through yesterday

also yesterday Samaritan reported that his condition had slightly improved. It was overnight that it went "slightly downhill." I've read a couple times it's been up and down.

Certainly heading downhill is not good, but not necessarily surprising. A transfusion is a major event and even with fully compatible blood there can be minor reactions. The blood he was given was not likely to have been leukocyte-reduced or as "cleaned up" as American Red Cross blood is.

It really depends on what symptom specifically has gotten worse. Fever is an indication that the body is fighting, and fever also can be a transfusion reaction, especially to foreign WBCs.

The main thing is that nothing has been reported about either of them entering the hemorrhagic phase. That will be the real turning point. I suspect if they had entered that phase they would not even think of shipping them back here except for their funerals.

[zappaman]

13. Not sure if this is a good idea, but if this thing goes airborne...

[distantearlywarning]

21. M-O-O-N, that spells Ebola

[ProdigalJunkMail]

37. nice ... n/t

[XemaSab]

58. You just got an evil chuckle out of me

[longship]

235. Ebola, my life for you!! nt

[moriah]

266. DUzy!

I always felt sorry for Trashy.

[TwilightGardener]

17. Why can't the CDC build a special isolation/care center on site in Liberia?

I don't see any good reason for bringing this virus here--as a former RN who saw a lot of mistakes and a lot of hospital-acquired infections.

[JI7]

22. and it could be used for people there also

[TwilightGardener]

25. Sure--make a big investment in containing the problem in Africa, and TREATING

it in Africa. Imagine if they could have done that with HIV. Now that said, other continents might need special facilities if it's inadvertently spread, but they can get ready for that without having to actually introduce infected human beings to THIS continent. We narrowly averted potential disaster when that one dude got sick and stayed over there. Why do this on purpose?

[JI7]

27. considering it's been in africa it seems like something we should have done long time ago

maybe it could have been stopped earlier .

[msanthrope]

51. It's already here. nt

[notadmblnd]

107. IMO Not enough people die from Ebola for a serum or vaccine to be profitable for big pharma

Ebola: since its emergence in 1976, there have been 2,586 cases of Ebola virus disease in humans and 1,717 deaths. While that's a fatality rate of 66.4 per cent, or roughly two out of every three patients, influenza kills approximately 500,000 people every year. In 38 years, Ebola has killed fewer than 2,000 people. The flu? Nineteen million.

very informative current article here.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/ebola-epidemic-plagued-by-fear-9636462.html

[XemaSab]

118. Experts: Ebola Vaccine At Least 50 White People Away

http://www.theonion.com/articles/experts-ebola-vaccine-at-least-50-white-people-awa,36580/

[notadmblnd]

121. That occurred to me too

Though that article is satire, I do believe if more white contracted the disease, there would be a rush for a cure.

[moriah]

268. Level 4 labs don't pop up overnight, sadly.

Maybe we should have built out-of-country facilities to care for our citizens who become infected with the virus, but we didn't. Instead we built two labs in the US -- the CDC and USAMRID. They're our people, and they're sick. We have some of the best facilities in the world, and therefore the best chance of both giving them the best treatment possible and risking fewer human lives in the process.

My concern is less with infection after they get in the quarantine area in the labs, and more with possibility of exposing people in the process of getting the patients there.

[TwilightGardener]

273. They're already being treated there--the fact that they're not dead yet is

a testament to their receiving at least some effective care. Moving an infectious ICU patient with multiple organ failure around the world for further treatment is pretty fucking stupid if they can receive adequate supportive care where they're at. The CDC is doing this primarily for practice, science and research, IMO. They can enhance the facilities and supplies where they're at in Liberia, control access by select workers, etc.--because the CDC and other organizations already have a presence there. And yes, we should be controlling and restricting travel from these areas, and possibly quarantining arrivals, but it's probably too late now that it's reaching big cities and airports.

[RiffRandell]

28. This is so fucked.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/14/us/a-drop-of-virus-from-a-monkey-kills-a-researcher-in-6-weeks.html

[LisaL]

29. Because all we need for the full happiness is Ebola in the US.

[janlyn]

40. This is NOT a good idea!!!

I plan on starting a non-perishable food stockpile, yesterday!!! My fathers family survived the 1918 flu pandemic by isolating themselves and being self sufficient. If this gets into the US populace the 1918 flu will look like the common cold in comparison.

[MineralMan]

48. Wow! Some really ugly crap in this thread.

We know how to treat these people without making any DU libertarians ill. Really we do. Calm down!

I'm disgusted...

[msanthrope]

53. Thank you. nt

[MineralMan]

60. You're welcome.

I can't believe some of the posts. Not a single DUer is threatened by this. Someone was even talking about stockpiling food, for jebus sake. My opinion of a few people just got flushed.

[Cali_Democrat]

62. Clearly stupidity isn't limited to GOPers.

This thread is an embarrassment.

[MineralMan]

65. Yes, it is.

The flu will kill tens of thousand this winter, but people are panicked over two people with an African viral disease. Feh!

[sheshe2]

185. Well that may well be because it is "African viral disease"

Some sadly have put on their tinfoil caps here, MM. They ain't Amerucans we are helping! So screw em, they are just black, leave the disease there. The aide workers and doctors, yah they helped those worthless souls, so they all deserve too die now. What the hell has happened to this country? And what the hell broke DU? No compassion. None.

Damn my blood pressure is going up!

[Live and Learn]

243. Not to mention how many climate change will eventually kill. nt

[msanthrope]

63. Get the duct tape and the plastic sheeting!!!! nt

[MineralMan]

68. Moronic panic response.

There are people flying into airports from that area every day. No flights have been cancelled over this. But two Americans who are sick can't get treated by the CDC? Stupidity abounds.

[msanthrope]

75. And the thing is, it's entirely possible we may have carriers here. But that's why we have an alert

system and protocols, and the like.

We should expect that Ebola will get here. And we will act accordingly. But losing our shit over two Americans who may be coming home to die is not how we do it.

This is not World War Z.

[MineralMan]

78. Ignorance and unwillingness to learn leads to

inhumane reactions sometimes.

[LisaL]

80. I dunno. But dying from bleeding out seems like a very inhumane way to die to me.

[MineralMan]

88. You're not going to die from this, LisaL.

Truly you're not. Be concerned about getting in your car and going to the supermarket. Very much riskier for you. Uff da!

[LisaL]

100. Well, nice to know you are so confident.

I just have no idea where that confidence is coming from.

[MineralMan]

117. Knowledge. That's where.

I've been studying this outbreak an Ebola transmission. That's how I know you don't need to worry. But do drive carefully and get your flu shot. That's the best protection against some known risks.

[LisaL]

123. How exactly have you been "studying" this outbreak?

[MineralMan]

133. There's tons of information on ebola in the journals.

Lots of info on the CDC website and other sites on infectious diseases, too. The World Health Organization also has current bulletins. You could spend all day just exploring those. In fact, that's just what I've been doing the past couple of days. I've also looked at all flight schedules from the affected countries to the US. Lots of folks arriving daily. Tell me your nearest large city and I'll give you a list tomorrow.

[LisaL]

135. Well, how did the three doctors who used protection got this disease?

After all, you studied it.
Two of the doctors are already dead. The third one they are planning to bring right into US.

[magical thyme]

182. they were all 3 in contact with people outside the hospital

It's possible that they got it outside the hospital. It's also possible that there was a worker who was coming down with it in the decontamination room with the 2 Americans. And it's also possible there was a splatter during decontamination.

Also, in the US we have disposable outerwear, autoclaves and laundering processes that they do not in Africa.

I'm more concerned about somebody who is asymptomatic coming here and then showing up in my ED and puking on a doctor or nurse or phlebotomist. At least in this situation we know they have it so precautions will be in place.

[msanthrope]

85. I blame Hollywood. Seriously, I loves me a good zombie/biological hazard movie, but

I think that people substitute that 'knowledge' gained from watching those flicks for reason. There's a visceral reaction of wanting to separate from the "others."

You know....I watched this again last week.....

[Hekate]

139. Gaaah. I'm planning a visit to the East Coast to see my sis, and unless I start driving now...

...the only way to get from the West Coast to the East is to fly. I'm going to fly. I'll pass through LAX, O'Hare, and then Buffalo NY. I'll be sharing air with hundreds and hundreds of strangers from all over the planet.

If it is apocalyptic in September (when I plan to go) maybe all the airports in North America will be shut down, but I find that unlikely.

What I won't do is wrap my little house in duct tape and plastic sheeting.

[LisaL]

146. This is how the one American that died got it.

He went to Liberia to visit his sister.

[Hekate]

164. Good thing my sister lives in upstate New York and not Liberia, then. Yeah?

[jen63]

166. He was actively involved

with caring for her while she died. He was probably exposed without proper protection. Much like the healthcare workers. They don't have proper supplies and have to try to disinfect everything, instead of burning what they're wearing. That's how the doctor's got it. It's not airborne. Everyone needs to stop the panic.

[LisaL]

190. Considering the doctor himself doesn't know how he got it (he says he took all proper precautions),

you can't seriously claim you know how he got it.

[jen63]

201. Have you seen the photos

of the conditions in Africa? We're talking tents and bleach and sticks out back to dry their rubber boots on. The woman who has it was one of the volunteers who were trying to disinfect all the gear. They're not in hospitals or even buildings a lot of the time. Hard to contain that way.

[pnwmom]

237. I saw the medical personnel at the hospital dressed from head to toe

in protective suits over their clothing, and headgear.

The doctor who is being evacuated was, according to his family, scrupulous in following the CDC recommended procedure.

[sheshe2]

188. You are going to be on the East Coast, Hekate.

Still so many hours from me. Ha! I would be willing to breath your air after your travels. I have more fear of the GOP than I do catching the disease.

[Hekate]

222. Hallo, sheshe

[Live and Learn]

244. I will never forget the absurdity and stupidity of that either! nt

[Union Scribe]

104. You're really slamming people

for being concerned about an incurable infectious disease being brought into the U.S.? Of all the topics you have taken a superior, high and mighty position on this is possibly the...latest.

[MineralMan]

110. Thanks for noticing.

Go look at the flight schedules into this country from the affected area, please. Use some common sense.

[Cali_Democrat]

55. +1000

[MineralMan]

61. Thanks. Some people are heartlessly selfish.

Ugh!

[ecstatic]

67. In fairness, you don't live near the area.

The people who live, work, and play in the area have a right to feel a certain way about it.

[MineralMan]

71. I don't care how they feel, frankly.

They will NOT be at risk. We know how to do this. They're welcome to fly them here to St. Paul, as far as I'm concerned. I'll send some flowers to their room.

[neverforget]

72. The callousness of some in this thread is beyond disgusting.

[MineralMan]

77. Yes. I've made mental notes.

I'm very disappointed in some cases.

[TwilightGardener]

126. Not callous. I am a former nurse who had to undergo monitoring for

Hep C because of a needle stick. I was as careful as I could be, but fumbled the uncapped needle (you never cap used needles) as I placed it into the sharps box. I have watched fellow nurses forget to take isolation booties off their shoes coming out of rooms. Mistakes happen. This is a disease that we don't fully have a handle on yet, and thus it seems a little stupid to bring it to the other side of the world just for science's sake, or even for charity's sake. The patients are likely very difficult to transfer just on the level of organ support/monitoring they'll need, it's not a matter of kindness or of "bringing them home"--they can receive treatment where they're at. Just a bad idea.

[Hekate]

224. This post at least makes human and scientific sense. The posts hating on missionaries are beyond...

...beyond the pale.

Glad you're okay.

[pnwmom]

94. The part that is scary is that Dr. Brantley was vigilant in taking all the appropriate precautions.

There are pictures of him wearing full protective gear, from head to toe. So no one knows how he got it or how it may be spread.

[MineralMan]

98. Even more stringent precsutions will be taken here.

Please calm down and think about his family, won't you. You are not threatened by this at all. The isolation he will be in will be extremely high.

Get your flu shot this fall, though. That's a much bigger risk for you.

[pnwmom]

109. Please don't patronize me.

It sounds like something a sexist man would say: "please calm down" to a woman who made a simple OP with a simple comment, and only a handful of comments in the long thread.

I was calm till I read your post.

And, no, I haven't missed a flu shot in twenty-five years.

[ecstatic]

130. You're awfully confident. Dozens of transportation and healthcare workers

will be around him and if one of them catches it (either accidentally or on purpose) and brings it home to family and / or friends, then what? Has everyone who will be in contact with him been screened?

[Skip Intro]

154. Exactly!

And once it's out, it's out.

But evidently it's cruel to realize that risk.

[DCBob]

131. +1

hard to believe those comments coming from progressives.

[Skip Intro]

132. Give me a break.

I'm sorry your sensibilities are offended by wanting to contain a fucking deadly virus that is out of control and has nations closing borders.

We're not talking about who can march in parade or get married, this is life and death, and there is nothing that can be done here that can't be done there. If there is, CDC officials should fly into the spreading hot zone and treat from there.

This isn't a PC game.

[Bonobo]

145. Mistakes happen.

It's why those doctors who know a lot more than you do are dead.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

There is nothing cruel, ugly or unreasonable in the idea of maintaining a quarantine.

Rather it is the reverse position that is foolish and needlessly risky.

"Pride cometh before the fall"

[MineralMan]

149. No quarantine is in place. Planes are arriving

daily, if you want something to worry about.

[Bonobo]

160. Okay, you win. Now I'm more worried about that. nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

191. +1000

[kiranon]

217. Agree with you and am surprised by the reaction to bringing these 2 missionaries home.

Also agree that CDC wants to monitor the patients here in the U.S. and use this to help find a cure for ebola.

[Live and Learn]

242. +1 nt

[Sheepshank]

297. And to think that on another thread regarding Trump's Tweet

I was shocked that anyone would be so cold and cruel and misinformed and spread the hate..... then there wsas this thread. OMFG!!

[gwheezie]

56. We should bring them home

they are americans, we should treat them here.

[seveneyes]

59. Is the USA all stocked up on opiates and suicide pills?

Because there are not enough hospitals beds for 300,000,000+ people with Ebola.

[ecstatic]

66. Wow. I go to Emory almost every week

Troubling, but if it's my time to go, then so be it.

[redwitch]

69. I hope the experimental treatment works.

The people who do this kind of work in Africa are so selfless and so brave. I was listening to a story on NPR about Dr. Brantly and he seems like such a wonderful human being. Sending him and Ms. Writebol all the good vibes I've got.

[XemaSab]

79. Word

Even if it cuts the death rate by 10%, that's still doubling the survival rate.

[redwitch]

87. Any encouraging advances in treatment for this wretched virus would be a good thing.

It is very scary and suddenly not just an African problem it would seem. What is most worrisome to me is that the Dr. from Sierra Leone as well as Dr. Brantly contracted it. In spite of the fact that they surely followed protocol.

[LisaL]

97. Two doctors (one from Liberia, one from Sierra Leone) already died from it.

American doctor (the one US is going to bring back) is said to be in grave condition.
All of them were using protective equipment and got it anyway.

[milestogo]

113. Are they being brought back because they are dying?

If they remain in Africa and die there, the bodies would probably be buried there and the families have seen them for the last time.

[LisaL]

125. The bodies of Ebola patients are very infections so they would be burned.

They'd still be infectious here in US, so they would be cremated. So I have no clue how it would make any sense to bring them here if the idea is that they will die.

[milestogo]

134. Maybe its just so their families can have the remains here instead of in Africa.

Flying gravely ill patients across the ocean to another continent doesn't seem like its the best thing for their survival.

[LisaL]

138. As I already explained, the remains are highly infectious.

I am sorry, but it makes no sense to bring them here if they are expected to die, just so families can have these highly infectious remains.
You can not do anything with the remains except cremate them. Which you could do right there in Liberia.

[milestogo]

141. I agree, it does not make sense.

It does not seem like a a good idea... but I am trying to imagine why this is being done. I presume the families are asking for this to happen.

[pnwmom]

159. I agree. If death is inevitable, there is no reason to bring them here. Cremate them there.

I read that they both took a turn for the worse last night, whatever that means.

[justamama83]

251. Please do some research - your information is incorrect

Look up some articles on this- they absolutely bury people who have died of Ebola. Cremation is not automatic or mandatory.

[Skip Intro]

124. Who decided this? Who is repsonsible for this idiotic, dangerous call? Who? n/t

[TBF]

148. Read the names in this thread defending the policy

and you'll have your answer.

[XemaSab]

144. My concern level for this is super low

My concern level for someone who doesn't even know that they've been exposed hopping on an airplane and flying somewhere... that freaks me the hell out.

[ecstatic]

174. "My concern level for someone who doesn't even know that they've been exposed hopping on an airplane

I think that's what we're all concerned about. That a doctor or nurse treating the patient will catch it and spread it outside of the *super safe* CDC facilities. I have no doubt that the patient himself will be extremely secured.

[pnwmom]

175. I'm wondering how they will sanitize the plane so it can be used again after this trip. n/t

[xmas74]

240. I'm not all that concerned about a doctor or nurse spreading it.

The doctors, nurses and researchers working with the patients will be the best of the best and have studied this for a very long time. With something like this people tend to be hyper vigilant. Actually, I'm interested in how the facilities will be set up. I wouldn't be surprised if there were sleeping facilities on campus, away from public access, that are made available until it is known that the staff isn't contagious.

I'd bet so much can be learned about the disease and its progression by monitoring it in a high-tech facility. And I have high hopes for the vaccine.

BTW-before someone says that I have no concerns about this disease or about its spread in the Atlanta-area I'd like to include this: I have a relative that works at Emory University Hospital. It's not her department but I'm sure she'll be interested in the progress. Last I heard she didn't seem too concerned about transmission.

[mainer]

170. These are Americans who risked their lives for humanity.

What if this was your son or daughter? Would you abandon them to die?

I say YES. Bring them home for the best care possible. I can't believe the heartlessness of those who say "let 'em die."

[TBF]

176. It's been a rough month -

Humanity seems to be in the eye of the beholder. We have children at the border that the KKK wants to mow down, we have the Israel/Hamas nightmare with still more children dying daily and no end in sight. And now we have a virus with no cure that really needs to be contained. I don't know what the answer is but I'd sure like more facts rather than inane comments like "use your common sense". There are many people in this country with weakened immune systems who do not need to be exposed to this virus - the fear is that 2 people brought in with it could result in the chance of many others being infected. Or maybe not, the fact is I don't know with certainty and neither does anybody else in this thread.

[MohRokTah]

197. "What if this was your son or daughter? Would you abandon them to die?"

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

[jeff47]

187. So whenever someone argues only the GOP is full of anti-science

we only need to point to this thread. Yay bipartisanship.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

198. I feel like I've warped pack to 1984 during the initial days of the AIDS crisis.

OMG OMG don't let Ebola in to our country!!!!

Burn the hospital!!!!

I live two blocks away!!!!

Burn the airplane!!!!

[msanthrope]

200. Yeah...and you and I agree on that. Not much else, but on that.

Welcome, friend.

[GusBob]

219. yes since that time the news media has gotten worse on any medical issues

The Internet has made accurate medical information very hard to find. The comment sections are possibly the worst areas in the world to discuss health related news IMO

[GusBob]

230. case in point i click out of this thread to see a new OP that claims 3 victims to US

When its the same info as this OP. Already the virus is spreading!

[840high]

199. This thread surprised me.

[Strelnikov_]

208. Every resource should be used to help these heros

Including bring them back to this country.

We need to show the same courage they did.

[LisaL]

210. If somebody wants to be a hero, they can volunteer to go down there to help these people.

[Strelnikov_]

215. Really? Is this what this site has come to? n/t

[cwydro]

278. So if you become sick in a foreign country...

you'll just stay there and suck it up?

I call bullshit.

[CreekDog]

212. Surprise surprise, some of the least compassionate people on DU don't want the health care workers

[gwheezie]

233. I would bet that the hospitals involved are not requiring people to work with these patients

I remember the 1st aids patient I had in 1987, they asked for volunteers. I won't forget him, he was a man in his 60's, no hx of a blood transfusion and married to a female. At the time it was the gay disease so it took some time before he was accurately diagnosed but I remember the hospital giving staff the option of not caring for him and asked for volunteers. I had no issue working with him, I had many gay friends who I ate with, shared bathrooms with, shared beds with, shared utensils with, {I never share toothbrushes but that goes without saying for anyone, even my husband, I'd rather use my dogs toothbrush and he licks his own ass}. Some of them had aids at this point.
I also remember applying for a job at a long term care facility that was going to open one of the 1st units for aids patients in the state, there was so much controversy the unit was never opened and I thought I had by that time taken care of several aids patients who were so sick and homeless because it was still the gay disease and some were estranged from their families or hadn't come out and were so worried about people finding out they were gay they wouldn't ask for help. I thought,my god don't the powers that be that are stopping this unit from opening understand there are people with aids on buses and on the street and not getting any care and they're afraid of a long term care unit opening?
I am not equating ebola with aids, because of raygun we knew little about aids and how it was transmitted. We know about ebola and frankly it does scare the hell out of me. I've been a nurse a long time,I've seen mistakes made. But, I do think we need to bring these folks home because they are americans, they are sick, they need to be cared for.

[flamingdem]

245. They must be able to contain the virus

or this wouldn't be happening. I do trust them to know that much.

[JCMach1]

259. They have little ability based on a documentary I saw about

early super-bug (anti-biotic resistant) bacteria cases. I wish I could remember the name of the documentary... One of the top-notch hospitals in the country setup isolation ward for patients with super-strict protocols...

bottom-line it still spread all around the hospital.

We know almost nothing about the vectors of this current ebola outbreak... this is a big, big mistake.

[muriel_volestrangler]

275. They know the current outbreak has taken about 6 months to infect about 1200 people

so it's not that infectious.

--MARCH, 2014--

- 22: Guinea identifies the Ebola virus as the source of a highly contagious epidemic raging through its southern forests, as the death toll rises to 59.

Experts had been unable to identify the disease, whose symptoms were first observed six weeks ago, but scientists studying samples in the French city of Lyon confirmed it was Ebola.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/140731/ebola-timeline-ruthless-killer

Bacteria are different from viruses, of course. The ability of a bacterium, which is an independent cell, to survive and multiply is different from a virus, which needs a live host of certain species to be able to multiply.

[SMC22307]

298. Frontline's superbugs at NIH?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/health-science-technology/hunting-the-nightmare-bacteria/a-superbug-outbreak-at-nih/

[In_The_Wind]

250. I do understand wanting to bring Americans home.

But, of course, this worries me.

[mnhtnbb]

256. Anybody who has ever worked in a hospital knows that protocols are never followed

100% of the time by 100% of people to whom they apply.

Mistakes happen and accidents happen. Then there are always the folks
who think they don't have to follow protocol 100% of the time.


Personally, I think deliberately bringing these two people back to the US is
a very, very bad decision.

[JCMach1]

260. There lies the problem...

[RiffRandell]

267. Yep, I remember this happening in my area years ago.

Last edited Fri Aug 1, 2014, 12:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Six weeks ago, Miss Griffin, who planned to be a doctor, was helping to move a caged rhesus monkey infected with the herpes B virus at the Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center here, when the animal flung a tiny drop of fluid -- perhaps urine or feces -- at her face.

It struck her in the eye. On Wednesday, paralyzed and weakened, she died of complications from herpes B, which is common in primates but rare and deadly, 70 percent of the time, in humans.

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/14/us/a-drop-of-virus-from-a-monkey-kills-a-researcher-in-6-weeks.html

[YarnAddict]

257. This is not the worst thing that could happen

keeping in mind that the UTMOST precautions will be taken every step of the way, from leaving the quarantine facility in Africa, to boarding the plane, deplaning, all the way through their hospital stay, and to whatever outcome they may have.

A much worse scenario is the average person who may think he is coming down with a cold as he boards a plane from West Africa, flies to the US, changes planes at major airports, eats at airport restaurants and continues on his way, sneezing, coughing, etc. and exposing possibly many hundreds of people, some of whom may contract the virus, and expose hundreds of others.

That's the possibility that frightens me much more than bringing two known patients here.

[gwheezie]

277. I agree with you

We know these folks have ebola. It's the people who don't know they have it yet who are still traveling. Most outbreaks have been pretty self contained.
Part of me also thinks this is yet again our weekly crisis. Every week something happens that is the most dire and immediate crisis that ever happened and the following week turns out it wasn't as bad as the new thing we all worry about.
I take all these things with a grain of salt.

[Gormy Cuss]

279. I remember when HIV victims were dismissed because they made the "choice" to be gay.

That attitude is creeping in here, with the choice being that these people went to an area with Ebola.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

286. agreed.

[TBF]

280. I was very nervous when I first heard

but I think I'm ok with it now. As someone with a compromised immune system I of course had an emotional reaction at first.

I think if we have the capability to care for them in Atlanta and it helps us on the research front it is worth it for the greater good (maybe we'll learn enough to create a vaccine and wipe this thing out like polio).

It's a good topic to talk about and I appreciate the various threads I've read as they've helped me to work through this.