Anti-Semitism

[DemocratSinceBirth]

All this recent unpleasantness made me think about anti-semitism. I don't give it much thought because my family was secular. If I ever thought about being Jewish it was more in a cultural context than a religious one. Beside being circumcised by a physician and not a mohel like a lot of fellow Jews and non Jews there isn't much about me that identifies me as Jewish. My mom did it more for hygienic and aesthetic reasons. I don't think she was thinking about fulfilling covenants. My dad did what my mom wanted. When you have members of a group that look as different as Woody Allen and Jordan Farmar it's going to be hard to readily identify members of that group.

This puts me in a unique position to witness firsthand anti-semitism. People would tell me, to my face, what they thought about Jews without knowing I was one, good times!!! Some of it, imho, was fairly innocuous and some of it wasn't. I heard one of my professors in a private conversation call American University (AU) A Jew and describe how JAPS (Jewish American Princesses) arrived for classes in limos... Let's put that in the innocuous category. I heard another professor refer to The New Republic as The Jew Republic. Let's put that in the not so innocuous category. I should add this was in "private conversations".

Now, the truly horrible stuff...Myself and two friends, one of whom was a Lebanese Christian, were just shooting the breeze and out of the blue he said "Hitler should have finished the job.". Wow, I should have said you wouldn't have your buddy Brian any more. One time I was watching this television show where some criminal committed some heinous crime and this acquaintance who I was watching it with said out of the blue, F---ing Jew, Wow... Where did that come from?

I should add all the instances of misguided "pro-semitism" where the person I was talking to knew I had a Jewish background. I have been told that Jews "have a head for business" , are "Masters of the Universe" , and "are just smart'. That's nice, I guess, but Jewish folks are just like any other folks, with some really smart and successful ones, some really dumb and unsuccessful ones, and a lot in the middle..


P.S. I should add that when it comes to the I/P conflict because i know it will inevitably come up I have many Arab friends. I am firmly in the pro-peace and two state solution camp and hope for a peace that comes as close to humanly possible to meeting the needs of all the parties involved. It's probably a pipe dream but one can wish.

[H2O Man]

1. Well said.

I appreciate that you posted this. Thank you.

Recommended.

[SomethingFishy]

2. Let me add a +1 as I was raised the same way...

Jewish but not religious. Have heard all the jokes, and the not so much jokes, have been in the room when people thought there wasn't a "Jew" around to hear what they really thought.


And I hold the same views on the I/P conflict. I believe there are quite a lot of us.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. About 70% of the stuff I heard was fairly innocuous and jokes we tell about ourselves...

However, about 30% of it was just repugnant.

All ethnic groups that I have been around make jokes about themselves which would not come off well if made by members outside the group.

[JustAnotherGen]

3. Well said

And I co-sign on this statement:

I am firmly in the pro-peace and two state solution camp and hope for a peace that comes as close to humanly possible to meeting the needs of all the parties involved. It's probably a pipe dream but one can wish.

[greytdemocrat]

5. He/she is right.

About it being a pipe dream.

[freedom fighter jh]

21. Maybe so.

But when more people dream about real peace, good for everyone, and fewer people dream about getting more land, or wealth, or revenge, then the odds of a just peace go up.

You get what you dream of. Not 100%, but dreaming is where it starts.

[iandhr]

7. Maybe peace is possible.

Would anyone on either side think that the Good Friday Agreement was possible at the hight of The Troubles?

[JustAnotherGen]

8. I don't know

But I do know in my backyard - in America? The language and behavior the OP has experienced is simply not acceptable.

A non secular Jewish American is saying - hey folks! This is how I've experienced America when it is ugly.

It's a good reminder to say - we can't really have an impact there - change will have to come from within.

But I can stop and think about how I treat another person in my backyard.


And you are right about the Good Friday Agreement - that's a very solid point - and gives me hope.

[iandhr]

10. I am Jewish as well.

There is no doubt the language and behavior the OP has experienced is simply not acceptable.

[JustAnotherGen]

12. And a hug for you too

It's just not right. And I'm sure you've heard it and seen it first hand as well.

[iandhr]

18. Thank you

I have to some extent. But not to the level of the OP.

[JDPriestly]

27. So true. It took a lot of work and is very complex.

The Good Friday Agreement is an example of a method that might work in Israel/Palestine. Lots of checks and balances. Lots of checkpoints. Incremental steps and provisions for self-determination within the structure of the agreement.

Here is a bit of Wikipedia's article on it.

The British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference was agreed to replace the Anglo-Irish Intergovernmental Council and the Intergovernmental Conference created under the 1985 Anglo-Irish Agreement.

The Conference takes the form of regular and frequent meetings between the British and Irish ministers to promote co-operation at all levels between both Governments. On matters not devolved to Northern Ireland, the Government of Ireland may put forward view and proposals. All decisions of the Conference will be by agreement between both Governments and the two Governments agreed to make determined efforts to resolve disagreements between them.

The British-Irish Council, is made up of ministerial representatives from the British and Irish governments, the devolved administrations of the UK (Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales), as well as from the Isle of Man, Jersey, and Guernsey (Crown dependencies of the United Kingdom). The purpose of the Council is to promote co-operations and pose a forum for the creation of common policies.

Under the agreement, it was proposed that the already-existing British-Irish Interparliamentary Body would be built upon. Prior to the agreement, the Body was composed of parliamentarians from the British and Irish parliaments only. In 2001, as suggested by the Agreement, it was expanded to incorporate parliamentarians from all of the members of the British-Irish Council.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement

Communication between the parties has to be ongoing, and there have to be peaceful means for working out day-to-day problems. An example would be stopping rockets from splinter groups or investigating disappearances of young people, closing tunnels. Those problems could be discussed and dealt with by a group including both Israelis and Palestinians.

The question is whether Palestinians are ready to accept Israel as a separate state. I think Israel could be persuaded to work with Palestinians in this way, but would Palestinians agree to work with Israelis in this way?

A big question is whether the physical resources of the Palestine/Israel area can accommodate, feed and provide water and other necessities for the population that wants to live in the area.

[Puzzledtraveller]

6. I was taunted for being a jew, I was called "dirty jew" "kike"

when I was in high school. I am not Jewish. I posted about this on DU also. I was singled out because of my appearance is the only reason I can think of as when on one occasion I was taunted with my friends I later after the incident asked one of my friends why he thought they did this and he stated that I looked "jewish". Thankfully the incidents were not many but they hurt nonetheless and gave me a good taste what it's like. I am 41 now and the memories of those times still haunt me.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. What does a Jew look like?

I have an idea what an anti-semite thinks a Jew looks like.

But when Lenny Kravitz and Woody Allen can both claim Jewish ancestry I have no idea of what a Jew looks like.

[JustAnotherGen]

20. +1000

[liberalhistorian]

9. Are you aware that members of Likud

have called for "concentration camps" in Gaza and for Palestine to be "wiped out"? Are you aware that their party rhetoric, and that of many of their followers, is just as hatefully bad against Palestinians, and many Arabs and Muslims, as the anti-Semitism you're describing here, that there is no difference? Dehumanization is dehumanization, period. And I would think that members of a group that has suffered the worst global persecution for millennia, and the worst genocide in human history, would be the first to recognize that. Yet it doesn't appear that Likud and its supporters are even capable of recognizing that. Nor are a lot of Americans, for that matter.

Hamas is not "the Palestinians" any more than Israel is "the Jews". Too bad both sides don't recognize that.

[JustAnotherGen]

13. I know this is directed at the OP

But I guess -

Jewish Americans aren't Israelis and they can't be held responsible. Nor should they have Israel's behavior thrown up in their face when they encounter Anti Semitic Language and Behavior in the country where they were born/naturalize, work, vote, and pay taxes.

I'm in total agreement on the dehumanization based upon religion. I don't doubt the OP is. And he wrapped it up -

2 state peaceful resolution.

I think that's what the majority of us want.

And I really agree with the Hamas not being Palestinians statement. Just like ISIS is not Iraq. If Hamas and Bibi were both out of the picture - we could probably see something workable happening. But right now -

We get what we get - not what we want.

So workable and peaceful is not going to happen. Individual egos have too much at stake to really care about the human beings in the line of fire.

[liberalhistorian]

15. You are quite correct, especially

your last line, sad to say. And I in no way at all meant to imply that Jewish Americans were in any way responsible, or that they should be held responsible for anything at all that Israel does. As I've said, Israel is not "the Jews" anymore than Hamas is "the Palestinians", but too many on both sides refuse to see that.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. I know you didn't mean that!

You were being honest about the situation!

And truly believe this is one hell of dangerous bloody pissing contest going on.

Obama's and Putins' - funny how are two very different leaders are managing to not get anyone they represent killed by the other country.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. All of the anti-semitic stuff I encountered was independent of the I/P Comflict

And as I said most of the time the folks trafficking in anti-semitism, the relatively benign and the malignant, didn't know I was Jewish.

When I think of it I think of it with a kind of bemusement, maybe because the people making the remarks didn't know I was Jewish. I imagine if the remarks were said to me and not about the group I am attached to by some amorphous and indescribable bond i would have been a lot more upset.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Anti-Arab bigotry is messed up.

And If you read a lot of I/P articles you will find there is a lot of anti Arab as well as anti-Israel sentiment.

I admit that I am naive but I start from the premise that most folks can sit around a table, split the proverbial difference, and come to some kind of amicable solution.

[JDPriestly]

24. Yes. For the anti- crowd, anti-Jewish and anti-semitic can be one and the same.

They don't know what they are talking about so they confuse it. Oh, and don't forget Sikhs. They also wear a "strange" headdress, so they get mixed in. It's just ignorance.

[etherealtruth]

11. There is definitely a rise in the expression of anti-semitism

I was raised in a Roman catholic household .... I will be forever grateful, that (in my family or origin) religious, ethnic, racial hatred bigotry was not taught and not tolerated.

It sickens me to see out-right antisemitism expressed (and tolerated) at a place like DU ... a place where I expect better.

I heartily agree with your "PS" ... and make a point to stay out of the conversations.

[840high]

29. +10

[potone]

22. The bigotry that you have experienced is disgusting and unacceptable.

It is very much to your credit that having had people that you regarded as friends say such vile things to you has not made you an anti-Arab bigot in return or callous to the sufferings of Palestinians. This conflict has gone on for far too long, and sadly there seems to be no end in sight.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. I don't feel all that scarred by it...

Because it wasn't said directly toward me. It's like a sociological experiment.


And I can categorize some of the remarks as more dumb than hateful though some truly were the latter.


As to Arabs I like everybody. When I was in grad school in the mid 80s at FSU many of my fellow graduate students were from Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, and Jordan. In fact, the Middle East was my minor. We got along great but then I didn't advertise my background which just shows how superficial the differences really are. My friend from Morocco knew I had a jewish background though. He told me his mom was a Jewish convert to Islam but not to tell the other Arab students because they would give them a hard time.

[JDPriestly]

23. K&R. People just want to be accepted for the individuals they are.

I'm not Jewish, and I have heard a lot of offensive anti-Jewish talk.

[MrBig]

25. GREAT post n/t

[dem1926]

26. dem1123

I believe that Judaophobia is a more specific term than antiSemitism since Arabs too are Semites

[MH1]

28. The whole stereotyping thing gets old, doesn't it?

It's not just Jews, every ethnicity has its haters.

I think it's more blatant and searing with Jews because of the Holocaust. I think you have a lot of people resentful of what is happening in the M.E. and automatically extend those feelings to all Jews - even though that makes no sense at all. On the flip side, I have a Jewish friend who is so extremely pro-Israel that he seems to think there is not one single innocent person in Gaza, not even a three year-old. Some of his Facebook posts are vile. So basically he is doing the same thing to Palestinians that the people you mention do to Jews - lumping every one together as if the worst faults of one apply to all of "them". It doesn't make any sense in either case.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. That's sad

Some of his Facebook posts are vile. So basically he is doing the same thing to Palestinians that the people you mention do to Jews - lumping every one together as if the worst faults of one apply to all of "them". It doesn't make any sense in either case.

I can't speak for all of Jewry but I rarely hear sentiments like that and am thankful for it. I was taught to respect everyone. My aunt, god bless her, she's gone now, was an Israel firster, no different than an American firster. But she had a lot of respect for my opinion because I was highly educated. (That might have been a mistake but I digress). I calmly explained to her that many Palestinians are as attached to that land as Israelis are and and they can make a compelling case they belong there too... So you have Palestinians and Israelis both saying that's their land and relying on history to make a case. They are both right. They both need to give a little for the betterment of everybody...Getting there is the hard part. I want to see a vibrant Israel but not as conquerors and not at the expense of subjugating other people. That's no more or no less than i want for America.

She said thank you for explaining it to me like that.

[Paladin]

31. HBO is currently running a special on some of the Nixon tapes. Talk about anti-semitism.

I've never heard the term "kike" used so repeatedly in such a short amount of time---and by a U.S. President, yet. Genuinely disturbing stuff.....

[arikara]

33. I'm sorry people treat each other like that

nobody deserves it. Unfortunately during this period of time, its part of the human experience for us to be picked on by others who for reasons only known to themselves have chosen to dislike us for our gender, colour, ability or whatever, even without even knowing us. I can't speak to semitism in particular and to be honest I wouldn't be able to tell a person was Jewish even if I fell over them. Not that I would care unless they distinguished themselves by advocating what is going on over there now.

But speaking as a woman who for many years worked in a "traditionally male job and being one of the first women on the job, I had to deal with many nasty barbs as well as unwanted come-ons from good old boy sexists. And the brown or gay or disabled friends and family, they all have their own issues of discrimination too.

I guess my wish is for us all just to get along, respect each other and respect Mother Earth.