Prostitution laws should follow Nordic model, former sex trade worker says

[redqueen]

The Supreme Court of Canada struck down the country’s three major prostitution laws in December, ruling that legislation banning street soliciting, living on the avails and keeping a brothel are unconstitutional.

...

Falle said Canada should adopt the Scandinavian approach.

“The Nordic model is looking at decriminalizing for the people who sell sex and criminalizing the johns and the pimps,” she said.

“Hold the people, the root of the problem accountable. The men. The people who are demanding these women.”

France and Ireland are also considering adopting laws similar to those in Sweden, Norway and Finland and Iceland.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/prostitution-laws-should-follow-nordic-model-former-sex-trade-worker-says-1.2554978

[redqueen]

3. That's what we've been doing, and it doesn't work, because the desperate women who are forced

most often by 'boyfriends' or pimps, can't access the help they need to escape.

Also: Enjoy your stay.

[davidn3600]

2. It's ALREADY illegal for men to buy sex!!

What you want is women advertising for sex to be OK...making it OK to entice men. And then have police pounce on men as they agree to it.

And this is equality in your mind?

[redqueen]

4. This system has been used by the most progressive countries for years.

There is a reason for that.

Buy a clue.

[davidn3600]

5. Two countries?

And the results from independent studies show it doesn't work nor does it do a damn thing to stop demand.

[redqueen]

11. Yes, just like the studies which show that global warming isn't influenced by human activities.

Insanely lucrative industries are able to catapult a lot of bullshit. Eventually progressives see through it.

[davidn3600]

15. Thankfully such a stupid uneven law will never pass in America

[former9thward]

6. The law has not worked.

In April 2012 the Program on Human Trafficking and Forced Labor issued a report on the effects of the law, concluding that it had failed in its purpose. In July 2012, a report by the UN-backed Global Commission on HIV and the Law recommended all countries to decriminalise private and consensual adult sexual behaviours, including same-sex sexual acts and voluntary sex work. It specifically pointed out that this also applies to the Swedish model, concluding it has actually resulted in grave consequences for the sex workers even though reported as a success to the public.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden

[redqueen]

9. Find me the "grave consequences" from the report which is linked as the source for that claim.

The multi-billion dollar industry has a lot of flunkies pushing super hard to stop progress.

It's a shame to see some on the left doing its bidding.

[former9thward]

17. It is from the UN.

Take it up with them.

[LittleBlue]

12. +1

The UN and countless sex workers unions want decriminalization.

Right wingers in Canada love the Swedish model.

[jakeXT]

21. Police turn blind eye to Swedish 'slave trade'

Police in Gothenburg have confirmed that sex trafficking in the city has developed into a full-blown slave trade - but that they lack the resources to do anything about it

Gothenburg police busted a large Romanian pimping network in 2011, but it wasn't long before new brothel-keepers from various countries took over. Now the problem is back with a vengeance, with police admitting they lack the resources to address it - and are thus forced to ignore the reports.

"We haven't worked with the issue at all for a year now," Stefan Adamsson, police officer in the Gothenburg trafficking unit, told The Local. "We would need to be three times as many police to be able to do anything about it."

Newspaper Expressen reported earlier this week that human traffickers had gone from "just" selling sex to selling women as lifelong slaves.

The newspaper's sources said the cost for a slave - "for life" - is €2,000 ($2680). For 700 kronor ($100) one can rent a couple of girls for a day, for cooking, cleaning, or anything else. "Do what you like with them," one seller reportedly said.

http://www.thelocal.se/20140725/police-ignore-slave-trade-gothenburg-sweden

[safeinOhio]

8. Free the gigolos

lock up the older women that hire them and throw away the key.

just saying

[redqueen]

10. The overwhelming majority of male prostitutes are used by men.

Your flippancy about a subject which causes so much misery, suffering, and death is noted.

[safeinOhio]

13. Still, you would arrest women that hire men?

Black and white answers to gray questions always lead to crap. Like Ayn Rand economics.
Lets focus on the pimps and unregulated factors that lead to misery, suffering and death. Did you check out the "White Hands" video I posted above? So you'd throw that poor individual in jail and the nice lady was not suffering.

[redqueen]

14. I'm not sure what you find unclear about "criminalize buying sex".

You seem to be trying to turn this into one of the so-called 'gender wars' - good luck with that.

[safeinOhio]

16. Not at all.

Buying sex is a very gray area, pointing out it may fly either way is taking gender out of the equation. How do you feel about a college girl seeking a sugar daddy to pay for college(see Graigslist ads). I feel the solution to exploitation lies in discussion like this with more than one point of view being important. You can rely on one study when others contradict it. I'd wait for all peer review points are made. The issue is very much like the abortion issue, there is room to make changes but lets not throw the baby out with the wash water. Take the "white hands" video I posted that you refuse to acknowledge. Street hookers working for pimps is a far cry from the med student trying to stay in school at any cost. Sure med school should be free, but it's not at this time. I'm all for it being free, until then…….I'm not for throwing wealthy men or truck drivers into out overcrowded, privatized prisons. I'm all for throwing pimps and madams in jail.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Leaving the twisted world of the heterosexual aside for one glorious moment, what bothers me about

this idea is that it sounds very much like a path to legalized entrapment, in which cops run around advertising sex to gay men, then arresting them for saying yes. This is in fact exactly what the cops used to do to gay people when it was illegal to be gay. What safeguards do such laws have to prevent such shakedowns?

[davidn3600]

19. Yep. Police are doing this in Russia to homosexuals

And it's gotten much worse there in recent years.

Making it legal for prostitutes to offer sexual services all over the place, and then have police selectively pounce on whatever they want to enforce.

Some say this is why it's not working in Norway. In Oslo in particular, there have been allegations that traffickers are paying off police. And because selling the sex is "legal" now, the sex workers aren't taken off the street and offered help.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Well I don't know, which is why I am asking about safeguards against abuse of such laws.

Even a good law often has the potential to be exploited for bad ends.

[brooklynite]

22. UNREC

Last edited Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:44 AM - Edit history (1)

All the "Nordic Model" does is say: "Prostitution is wrong, but the women involved couldn't possibly want to do it so all the blame lies with the clients". This is both unfair and patronizing ro the women who choose to engage in this activity.

[redqueen]

24. No, it says 'we don't want to provide a perfect environment for organized crime

and human trafficking'.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. It robs adult men and women of agency.

It is medieval notions masquerading as progressivism.

[littlemissmartypants]

23. Kicking. Thank you. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

26. Should we do the same with drug laws? nt

[redqueen]

27. The fact that drugs are not analogous to people has been pointed out repeatedly.

I will no longer take anyone who persists in trying to use use this idiotic, libertarian argument here seriously.

[MannyGoldstein]

30. First off, that was an uncivil response.

I hope your parents raised you better than this.

There's little question that the two are analogous. The question is only how closely analogous, e.g., can experience with one be used to predict outcome for the other. I don't recall seeing any analysis of this.

[redqueen]

34. "I hope your parents raised you better than this. "

What an incredibly rude and condescending statement.

And how ironic that you call me rude ... because I called your argument idiotic?

See, this is why I won't be taking you seriously.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. Only the activities the original poster disapproves of/nt

[MannyGoldstein]

31. She's very rude.

That's for darned sure.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. I admire her persistence.

That being said, true believers scare me!

It reminds me of Il Duce. He went from being a Marxist to a fascist and believed in both ideologies with an equal fervor.


...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Soliciting sex is already illegal in all fifty states

Nevada has a county option.

In every American city there are parts or large parts where people can't walk after dusk because of crime. Law enforcement is already stretched thin.

Do we really want them to devote more hours targeting people for arrest and prosecution for participating in consensual activities?

[redqueen]

32. Why do you assume the law will be used for targeting any more than it is now?

It allows the prostitutes who are coerced or abused to seek help. It is also a disincentive to organized crime and human traffickers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. What should the penalties be?

Right now it seem the largest penalty is shaming. The john has to explain to his wife and or girlfriend if he has one and his employer that he was arrested for soliciting a prostitute. The actual penalty is quite minor. If he's a first offender with a clean record, he's most likely going to receive pre-trial diversion where he will have to take a course on sexually transmitted disease. After a period of time if he stays clean the charges are dropped.

Do you want to make soliciting a prostitute a felony? Where the offender goes to prison? That seems draconian.

And you casually dismiss the nexus between legalized prostitution and drugs. There are very bad people involved in the drug trade at the distribution level and when anti-legalization advocates say there is a nexus between terrorism and drugs they are correct. Look at the poppy fields in Afghanistan and the drug wars in Mexico and Colombia. However that doesn't mean it makes sense to put some hapless man or woman in the hoosegow for smoking a joint or doing a line of coke.

I don't see legalization or criminalization as the answer. The solution lies in education and diversion.

[redqueen]

36. This again. When drug users abuse drugs they're abusing a thing.

Drug traffickers make money by selling things.

When sex buyers abuse prostitutes they are abusing PEOPLE.

Human traffickers are enslaving PEOPLE to meet the demand those men drive up where prostitution is legal. Not all men like using condoms, or restraining themselves only to acts which legal prostitutes will agree to. And many men prefer underage prostitutes. Where prostitution is legal, it is easier for pimps and traffickers to cash in on those men.


So many on the left seem to only be focused on the men who want easy access to sex and the minority of privileged prostitutes who rent themselves out by choice.

Those people's concerns are not mine. I am focused on the majority of women and children in this industry - who are exploited, abused, enslaved, raped, and murdered because of this industry.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. At the top rival gangs kill each other to gain control of the drug trade...

At the top rival gangs kill each other to gain control of the drug trade. When a person buys drugs, whether it be something innocuous as weed or as potent as heroin he is empowering those people and encouraging their activities. The Taliban and Hamas receive some of their funding indirectly or directly from the sale of drugs, obviously at the wholesale level.

My point is there are a lot of dirty people involved in the drug trade as there are in prostitution. However that doesn't lead me to want to put those who buy sex and or drugs in jail.

I said it a million times. If a man or woman wants to get out of the pornography and or prostitution business there should be programs to help them. Nobody should be compelled into those activities out of economic necessity. Obviously, human traffickers should have the book thrown at them.

I do oppose harsh penalties for adults who buy and sell sex for two reasons; one, they are punitive, and two, they are doomed to failure.

[redqueen]

38. You're continuing to ignore the fact that the Nordic model lowers violence against prostitutes,

and reduces human trafficking and of course since the areas which have adopted this model are no longer as attractive to traffickers, there is less organized crime involved.

Considering tbose benefits, my heart does not break for men who can no longer legally rent human beings to use as masturbatory aids.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. I have a question

Is it conceivable to you that a man or woman can be a prostitute and enjoy the sex and or money to varying degrees?

Or do you think every single one is miserable?


And for clarification the nexus between illegal drugs and prostitution is that many more people are involved, some quite unsavory, than the end buy and seller. If one wants a prohibition of prostitution on the grounds that unsavory people are involved then that person should want a prohibition on drugs as well...

Or else the person is saying leave the vice I approve of alone.