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RandySF

(58,806 posts)
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 12:43 AM Aug 2014

More immigrants want English classes than there are spots available.

They came, one after another, through the glass doors of the Bronx Library Center, the largest public library in the borough. Some rode multiple trains or buses from home; others took precious time away from work. A few struggled with young children in tow.

It was not books they wanted, but something more basic: to learn English.

The Bronx library on East Kingsbridge Road has become a hub of English instruction at a time when many of New York City’s public libraries are seeking to expand their language and literacy programs to better serve patrons who increasingly come from all over the world. The programs are free to local residents, regardless of their income or immigration status, and have become so popular in some neighborhoods that people stand in line for hours to sign up and many have to be turned away because there are not enough spots.

“I need to learn English,” said Rafael Villeta, one of 153 people waiting to register for classes at the Bronx library on a hot Tuesday afternoon in July. “Every job, the first question is, ‘You know English?’ ”


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/nyregion/new-york-city-libraries-struggle-to-meet-demand-for-english-language-classes.html?src=me&_r=0

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More immigrants want English classes than there are spots available. (Original Post) RandySF Aug 2014 OP
So the Republican talking point... 4b5f940728b232b034e4 Aug 2014 #1
it's always been a lie, just because they talk among family and others who know their home language JI7 Aug 2014 #2
I'd like to learn Spanish. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #3
Exactly how I feel. littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #4
"Mastery" requires use. Igel Aug 2014 #8
Uh, ok. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #9
yes, i took 3 years of spanish. never used it because i didnt need to. Liberal_in_LA Aug 2014 #10
I once ran a tutoring program for immigrant kids pinboy3niner Aug 2014 #5
The interesting thing is there are ESL teachers who work throughout the world davidpdx Aug 2014 #6
I have been an ESL tutor for 10 years. I now specialize in Intermediate and Advanced CTyankee Aug 2014 #7

JI7

(89,249 posts)
2. it's always been a lie, just because they talk among family and others who know their home language
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 01:00 AM
Aug 2014

doesn't mean they don't know english.

the wingnuts just don't think they should talk in language other than english at all.

usually it's the older immigrants who are close to middle age and older when they came that will not know english.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
3. I'd like to learn Spanish.
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 01:10 AM
Aug 2014

I wish we could expand this too. This country should encourage mastery of several languages.

littlemissmartypants

(22,656 posts)
4. Exactly how I feel.
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 02:12 AM
Aug 2014

Granny studied Latin and French in the 20th century, early 1930's. Retrograde is where we are now as far as that's concerned.

Igel

(35,300 posts)
8. "Mastery" requires use.
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 10:13 AM
Aug 2014

And for that the language has to be one that people want to learn--maybe you admire the culture (or some aspect of it) or the people for some reason and want to be "like them", maybe you're going to be moving there for 5 years for your work. Most people don't much admire Central American culture. There's not a great deal of economic benefit that'll come from learning Spanish, not for most people.

But you also have to have opportunities to use it in a variety of settings and purposes. You don't learn "a language" by learning a grammar; that's learning a grammar. And you don't know a language if you can chat amiably about the weather, but can't handle a doctor's office or read and understand an electric bill, newspaper story about the Gazan conflict, or read a novel. In Houston I have opportunities to use Spanish, but only passively beyond discussing the weather and high food prices and why a kid's failing my class. For mastery you need to know the grammar and the vocabulary and norms of usage in a large variety of situations.

Otherwise it's precisely like the other poster whose grandmother (?) learned some classical language. Yippee, I can decline "puella puchra" and "puellus pulchrus" and the principle parts of amo and even conjugate it in all tenses and voices and moods. Bleah. Most Europeans are the same.

"Immigrants don't learn English" is still fairly true. I've known a lot of immigrants who were here for years and "knew English," but only enough for limited situations. They knew English for their jobs. They acquired enough English to understand school terms. They could handle basic shopping. Some I tutored wanted to learn words for visiting the doctor or dentist. After that ... Pretty much in most contexts they were monolingual. Their kids were a lot better, but still had a restricted code. (Meaning that they hadn't mastered less common grammatical constructions and had little lexical depth or breadth in most areas.) This isn't necessarily a question of "want" or "not want". This is mostly a question of appropriate exposure and opportunity combined with no perceived need for mastery in those areas. They've gotten by with minimal English or a restricted code (depending on their generation) and why expend much effort for much else? In some ways their first language is the same, even often non-standard.

This is background-related. I've known immigrants who were highly educated in their first language. When they moved to the US they had already mastered numerous styles and registers in their native language. They knew the difference between talking to a cashier and giving a public lecture, talking to an employee versus talking to your doctor. Different contexts, different styles and registers. And in the US they wanted to replicate their native-speaker ability in these styles and registers in English.

Same for their kids. I've had kids who were ESL students and really had trouble saying much more than colloquial English. Then there were some who'd been here only a couple of years and excelled. Those who excelled typically had doctors or engineers for parents (not always, to be sure). Those who stopped at colloquial English had parents who only knew colloquial Spanish, having dropped out of school in their home countries, often before high school.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
9. Uh, ok.
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 10:23 AM
Aug 2014

I find it sad that as an educator that you'd state that most people wouldn't find anything to admire about Central American culture. I hope that isn't an opinion that is reflected in your classroom attitude.

I am a classroom teacher, and I would like to learn Spanish to communicate with my students who are learning English. The students work very hard to communicate with me, and I feel a lack on my part for not knowing more of their language.

There's a great deal more to address in your post, but those are the only two points I care to respond to. I don't feel my simple statement warrented such a negative diatribe.

 

Liberal_in_LA

(44,397 posts)
10. yes, i took 3 years of spanish. never used it because i didnt need to.
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 10:25 AM
Aug 2014

Wish I had forced myself to use it

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
5. I once ran a tutoring program for immigrant kids
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 02:44 AM
Aug 2014

Their English was rough, but they were picking that up from school and peer interaction.

Their real problem was that even those with good English were failing their classes. School authorities had asked for help from all the civic orgs around and been rejected. Our Vietnam vets group heard about it through our connections in the school system and committed to doing it. Knowing that the kids were war refugees from Central America moved us.

It wasn't a big deal. Just weekly sessions with our volunteers helping the kids with their homework. We weren't expecting much, but before we knew it our kids went from failing to being on the honor lists at their schools. Some went on to become engineers and doctors and lawyers.

The problem was that they just didn't know how to do homework. Once we showed them how, it was off to the races. It was just that simple. So simple that we felt embarrassed accepting the awards we got.

Sometimes it doesn't take much at all to make a difference.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
6. The interesting thing is there are ESL teachers who work throughout the world
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 03:12 AM
Aug 2014

and I'm sure some would come back IF the funding were available for jobs to teach. Many were pushed overseas during the economic downturns and some (such as myself) decided to stay.

There certainly is not a lack of capable teachers to do the job, what we lack is the will to fund such programs.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
7. I have been an ESL tutor for 10 years. I now specialize in Intermediate and Advanced
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 08:15 AM
Aug 2014

tutoring. I like doing it but there are real life drawbacks: our Spanish speaking students often have jobs/communities where Spanish is widely spoken and they don't feel the need to learn more English than they absolutely must have. These are immensely hard working people; their time is limited. We encourage them to watch American TV at least once a day to learn more about American English in the context of the story (the best way to communicate a new language).

Cultural issues can come into play as well. There is a vibrant Turkish community in our nearby town of West Haven. They have brought the town two wonderful restaurants, where I discovered the beauty and flavor of their dishes. However, the women are mostly scarved and segregated with the children while the men run the restaurants. When the women come for tutoring they come in small groups and often hesitate to interrupt their own conversations for the English lessons. Tutors become frustrated because the women never seem to progress.

I currently tutor a Turkish man, a judge, who is studying forensic law at a local university. His English is High Intermediate and mostly I work on American English usage/pronunciation and cultural norms. (a bonus for me: he tells me what to order at the Turkish restaurants!). Like many of the professional men I have tutored he will return to his country after his classes end.
Similarly, my two engineers, one from Brazil and the other from Mexico, were interested in gaining better English so they could use it to advance in their companies at home.

So that's my report from "on the ground" in my community as an ESL tutor. It's fun to tutor and I always try to make my lessons fun and encourage their speaking in English as much as possible, but often there are challenges involved...




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