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bigtree

(86,005 posts)
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 12:06 PM Aug 2014

Why isn't there a more robust effort to organize an international response to the plight of Kurds

. . . besieged on those mountains?

I have a few ideas why, but I'm interested in a few views from folks here as to why that effort doesn't seem to be materializing? Is it indifference, or, is there something about that mission which is keeping other nations at bay?

I see where the UK has provided airdrops. Where is the UN effort to organize an international response? Where are the volunteers for military action against the insurgents; air support to aid an evacuation? Can the U.S do this alone?

A poster is suggesting 'boots on the ground' today. Do you think there's any significant support among former members of the 'coalition of the willing' for such a mission?

I don't believe the U.S. is best suited for military action in Iraq, because of the counterproductive effect; the blowback on other civilians in reprisals during the direct action and after we leave.

I don't even believe our troops can accomplish that mission with the success some seem to believe. It's apparent that airstrikes haven't yet provided for the corridor of escape for the civilians trapped.

. . . anyway, John Kerry Says U.S. Doesn't Plan to Send More Troops to Iraq


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Why isn't there a more robust effort to organize an international response to the plight of Kurds (Original Post) bigtree Aug 2014 OP
There's a deep territorial problem... Wounded Bear Aug 2014 #1
we know the U.S. has agreed to provide small arms to the Kurds bigtree Aug 2014 #3
We fought two wars in Iraq. If any country is "best suited" for military action TwilightGardener Aug 2014 #2
I recall massive Iraqi civilian deaths going on all around that occupation bigtree Aug 2014 #6
France Calls for Immediate Shipment of Arms to Kurds alsame Aug 2014 #4
right. providing more weapons bigtree Aug 2014 #7
I suspect no other nations want to alsame Aug 2014 #9
prob because the world feels america is responsible for breaking Iraq, not them La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #5
resentment bigtree Aug 2014 #8
i don't think that its resentment, its just being pragmatic. La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2014 #10
I don't disagree with that bigtree Aug 2014 #12
there should be samsingh Aug 2014 #11
The US military is the only reasons anyone listens to the UN The2ndWheel Aug 2014 #13
It's easier cloudbase Aug 2014 #14
that's the truth bigtree Aug 2014 #15

Wounded Bear

(58,706 posts)
1. There's a deep territorial problem...
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 12:12 PM
Aug 2014

The Kurds want their own nation. Countries like Turkey and Iran, where the Kurds live, don't want to give up the land and/or people for that. One of the precedents is, of course, Israel. The UN carved out a new nation for them after WWII and there has been problems over that since.

bigtree

(86,005 posts)
3. we know the U.S. has agreed to provide small arms to the Kurds
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 12:26 PM
Aug 2014

. . .and we have a report today from the NYT that the U.S. is pursuing a 'containment strategy'. The most prominent plan advanced today by State was that they intend to assist the new Iraqi leader chosen bu parliament, and withhold military assistance from Maliki if he holds on. I'm not sure that's the totalitly of their strategy, but it's a curious one.

I do see where there are still strikes being carried out against ISIS/ISIL, but this doesn't look as a decisive defense against the combatants by the U.S. as folks might have envisioned.

We know that the President doubled down on his vow to keep boots off of the ground. I wonder if that's a U.S. legislature-driven political rationale, or is he thinking the same as I am about the risk to our forces vs. chances for success; as well as the blowback from that presence?

I think it's clear that the U.S. is having trouble accomplishing the rescue of the civilians on our own. I'm wondering what the reasons are for the virtual silence on pulling together a coalition of willing nations? Are others concerned about their own skin (understandable) or are they unconvinced of the success of such an 'on the ground' or even an aerial effort?

I can't imagine that international option's not already been explored or pursued.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
2. We fought two wars in Iraq. If any country is "best suited" for military action
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 12:16 PM
Aug 2014

in Iraq, it's us. We know where everything is. Fear is keeping other nations at bay--nobody wants to pick a fight with these nutcases.

bigtree

(86,005 posts)
6. I recall massive Iraqi civilian deaths going on all around that occupation
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 12:37 PM
Aug 2014

. . .some at the point of our own weapons; many others occurring unabated, Iraqi against Iraqi, behind them.

I think it's a specious argument that our 'boots on the ground' have the ability to protect civilians. It's been disproved in Iraq, and in Afghanistan, as well. Look at the size of the force Bush sent in, and then look at the numbers of civilians killed throughout that occupation. This is pure amnesia to suggest that U.S. 'boots' are able to protect civilians. They do okay protecting themselves and their facilities, but even that effort is fraught with real and present danger - and folly, as well.

Some of us out here haven't forgotten the counterproductive effect in Iraq that our military presence, as well as direct action, had in, as the 2006 intelligence estimate stated we were fueling more resistant violence than our troops were able to put down.

It should be no surprise at all to see the report last week from President Obama's own intelligence agencies that our military presence and activity in Iraq - however altruistic the mission - is having the exact same effect of drawing more individuals looking to do battle with our nation, from around the globe, to rally to this emerging insurgent group's deadly cause.

Greg Miller ‏@gregpmiller 6m
US intel sees defections from AQ affiliates as fighters flock to ISIS. Q whether strikes will "increase the spigot"

Fighters abandoning al-Qaeda affiliates to join Islamic State, U.S. officials say

U.S. spy agencies have begun to see groups of fighters abandoning al-Qaeda affiliates in Yemen and Africa to join the rival Islamist organization that has seized territory in Iraq and Syria and been targeted in American airstrikes, U.S. officials said.

The movements are seen by U.S. counterterrorism analysts as a worrisome indication of the expanding appeal of a group known as the Islamic State that has overwhelmed military forces in the region and may now see itself in direct conflict with the United States.

. . . The launching of U.S. airstrikes has raised new questions, including whether the bombings will hurt the Islamic State’s ability to draw recruits or elevate its status among jihadists. “Does that increase the spigot or close it?” said a senior U.S. counterterrorism official, who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity and noted that U.S. military operations in Afghanistan and elsewhere have crippled al-Qaeda but also served as rallying cries against the United States.

Longer-term, U.S. officials expressed concern that the Islamic State, which so far has been focused predominantly on its goal of reestablishing an Islamic caliphate, may now place greater emphasis on carrying out attacks against the United States and its allies.

read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fighters-abandoning-al-qaeda-affiliates-to-join-islamic-state-us-officials-say/2014/08/09/c5321d10-1f08-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html?tid=HP_lede

alsame

(7,784 posts)
4. France Calls for Immediate Shipment of Arms to Kurds
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 12:35 PM
Aug 2014

France Calls for Immediate Shipment of Arms to Kurds

France Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius again asked for an urgent meeting of European countries’ Foreign Ministers to discuss immediate arms shipments to the Kurdistan Region for use against Islamic State (IS) militants.

“It is necessary to help Kurds and Iraqis and give them help to fight IS insurgents. It needs to be impressed on them that IS insurgents wish to kill all those that don’t have the same ideology, thinking and religion as them,” said Fabius.

<snip>

“We can sit in our places and say unfortunately we can’t do anything, but this is not our reaction. We can’t sit and do nothing while we see large number of people getting killed,” added Fabius.

On Sunday, Fabius visited Baghdad and Erbil and stated, “Due to the imbalance in terms of weaponry between the Kurdish and Iraqi armies and IS militants, it has become easy for IS insurgents to occupy Iraqi territories quickly. With the cooperation of the European Union, we have to think about giving weapons to Kurdish Peshmerga forces.”

http://basnews.com/en/News/Details/France-Calls-for-Immediate-Shipment-of-Arms-to-Kurds/30165

alsame

(7,784 posts)
9. I suspect no other nations want to
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 12:41 PM
Aug 2014

get directly involved so they will do what they can from a distance, send weapons.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
5. prob because the world feels america is responsible for breaking Iraq, not them
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 12:36 PM
Aug 2014

and therefore american resources need to be used to fix it, not theirs.

bigtree

(86,005 posts)
8. resentment
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 12:40 PM
Aug 2014

. . . of course, and much more, I believe. Disillusionment (from previous experience) with the direct military option, perhaps.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
13. The US military is the only reasons anyone listens to the UN
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 01:04 PM
Aug 2014

And even then, not really.

If you want an organized global response to these sorts of events, then you can't allow regional governments(which is what every government is today) to act in their own interest. If the US government isn't going to do it, nobody else is going to do it. Mostly because they probably can't, since the US military has been the world's police force for so long.

Everyone has been sort of cool with that set up, with the US being the last remaining power by the end of the 20th century and all. But then history didn't end, and we're all still trying to figure things out. Like I said, we live in a global world, but with a few hundred regional governments. The pieces don't fit together. You have to go one way or the other. We keeps trying to have the best of both worlds, without any downside. I don't think life works like that.

bigtree

(86,005 posts)
15. that's the truth
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 01:15 PM
Aug 2014

. . .many of the regional countries are more than happy watching the U.S. expend our own blood and money there.

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