I've concluded that if you say Suicide is cowardly or selfish, then you're not too bright.

[trumad]

Last edited Tue Aug 12, 2014, 09:05 PM - Edit history (2)

I'm serious. It also means you're lazy. It means you have no ability to research something before you open your ignorant flytrap.

It means you're shallow, it means you're heartless, you're judgmental without having facts. It means you have troll tendencies because hey, why else announce to everyone that your an idiot.

nuff said!

[vt_native]

1. Yes,

not too bright.

[In_The_Wind]

2. _

[Cooley Hurd]

3. Depression is a very complex thing...

...and often misdiagnosed or simply overlooked. One thing is for sure, when you're experiencing it, there seems to be no way out of it. That desperate feeling is horrible.

[redstatebluegirl]

4. Agreed, this is why people do not seek help when they feel suicidal.

When a student came in my office for advising and used what I called "the magic words" we were out the door and over to the counseling center. If they told me they had even considered suicide they needed more help than I could give them, so I took them seriously. I had over a dozen while I was in higher ed. Many of them told me their parents made fun of people who felt that way, thought they were selfish and weak. If you feel that way, someone else may have kept your child alive by taking them seriously. Think about that for a while.

[BrotherIvan]

12. Excellent Post

I hope the best thing to come out of this tragedy is for people to learn more and to take others seriously.

[redstatebluegirl]

16. Me too!

Maybe I am more into their feelings since I struggled with it myself at one time, but you have to take this seriously!

[BrotherIvan]

47. As a former high school teacher

I think one of the things teenagers struggle with so much is invisibility. They are thrown into these massive high schools, far too young, and they have no one to talk to besides their peers. They are quite literally "falling through the cracks". We put so much stigma on "bad" feelings that it's hard to talk about them. I don't know how many times someone literally told me to shut up when I mentioned some pretty dark feelings. We don't know how to deal with them. So most of the time people self-medicate. But sometimes the hole seems to far to climb out of. Reaching out to just one person who shows they care sometimes is that one speck of light. You've probably changed some lives which means you're doing it right!

[gvstn]

6. I'm not going to try to defend every tasteless comment someone makes.

I want to remind people that for years suicide was institutionally mocked and covered up. Statistics weren't provided in mainstream news, almost no deaths were actually listed as suicides in newspapers and it was something people gossiped about rather than being informed.

The coward term or "cowardly way out" was often bandied about freely not by some uneducated person but by mainstream pundits. I'm not sure if this started with some military implications but it definitely has been often and consistently used when dismissing suicide statistics. I think it was adopted to try to make the act shameful and thus reduce the numbers of suicides. Whether misguided or not, I think it may be a bit harsh to attack anyone than repeats something they have heard their whole lives without trying to educate them rather than immediately attack them.

[justabob]

10. reasons

I think you are partly right about the reason behind shaming suicides as cowardly, I think more of it though is that if anyone admits these guys and gals had a good reason for not wanting to stick around, we might have to take a look at some of the systemic issues and institutional policies that are, especially in recent years, designed to break people. I can't believe there aren't more people snapping all over the place.... seriously. Our world and this country, in particular, have gone mad (for lots of reasons discussed daily on these pages) The cognitive dissonance required to function in our society takes a heavy toll, I think.

[gvstn]

14. Absolutely.

That euthanasia will never be allowed for any reason no how great the physical pain backs up that slippery slope fear. Kevorkian was given over a decade in jail for helping people end their lives with dignity--which was a criminal sentence. I don't want to conflate suicide with euthanasia but a line was drawn in the sand that both had to be reduced in number even if that meant attacking the most desperate among us as weak and shaming their memories.

[americannightmare]

15. Precisely, justabob!

The selfishness required to say "You left me here, feeling guilty and helpless," these people need to ask themselves what they are guilty of, why they feel helpless, because if it's only about sticking around to make them feel better, that's the most selfish thing I can imagine.

[laundry_queen]

24. So right about the cognitive dissonance. nt

[tblue37]

18. Attitudes toward those who attempt suicide or succeed

have long been unenlightened and even hideously and irrationally punitive.

An 1845 British law treated attempted suicide as such serious crime that the penalty for an attempt to commit suicide was death by hanging!

In 1961, the British finally passed a law that decriminalized attempted suicide. India, which has a legal system based on the UK's, decriminalized attempted suicide only within the past decade.

[nomorenomore08]

40. That is hilariously ironic... Finishing what the poor bastard started...

[PowerToThePeople]

7. too

you're

[trumad]

8. Thanks...

[Brainstormy]

9. I agree, but . . .

I'm really touched by how this death has opened a dialogue about depression. I'm impressed by the consciousness-raising that's going on in terms of the accusation that suicides are "selfish." I understand that this can be is a facile label for a complex situation.

But I don't agree that such a suggestion means that you're heartless or judgmental or even a troll. Suicides leave others behind. People who loved them. Those people suffer, too. Immensely. And I can assure you that every one of those who were left behind will have occasion to think, in some dark, despairing moment, "Coward! coward. You're well out of it. But you left me here. To remember, to feel guilty and helpless, and to still FEEL pain."

[Politicalboi]

20. Totally agree

[New Orleans Strong]

28. Brainstormy:

I loved your post. My younger brother hanged himself last June. Yes. The survivors suffer. Though I didn't find him, I "watched" him do it the second I woke up every single morning. For months. The.sheet over the pipe. Everything. Over and over I "watched" him. The very first second I woke up and wanted to know so badly if he was defiant or despondent. I never will. I remember after two months being amazed because I made coffee first before that "movie" started in my head. I hate what Mr. Williams family is and will be going through, but his mental illness made it impossible for him to think rationally. That is the definition?

[AlinPA]

11. It's no surprise that Fox 'news' said that Robin Williams was cowardly.

[rickyhall]

21. Fuck faux news, the sociopathic network!

[americannightmare]

13. I would say that it's courageous...

In this situation one might be saying, "It's all so meaningless," and they just don't want to participate in the horror show that we call a life on this planet anymore. Particularly if one actually cares about other people and their pain and can't do anything about it. Robin Williams appeared to be a very sensitive person and he very well could have been worn down by the horror. Who fucking cares if Fox News or anyone thinks you're cowardly. Hell, people like that are as good a reason as any to cash in your chips, at least you're not continuing to help them murder people everywhere.

[NaturalHigh]

17. Wow - we agree on something!

[heaven05]

19. suicide is desperation personified

nothing selfish about experiencing that type of pain. I know. Those "selfish" comments have to do with that macho, stiff upper lip BS.

[LiberalArkie]

22. They are people who have been caught doing something wrong

and kill themselves to avoid having to face the judge. They are cowards.

But those who are sick and tired of life, who have health problems and see no end of the road. That is different.

I do not plan on being someone in a nursing home, just sitting in a wheel chair drooling and a burden on society.

I just hope I can catch it before that happens, I want to go out " with my boots on". I feel so sorry for people whose children want to hang on to them forever. Luckily I have no children and am the last of my line.

[madinmaryland]

23. It means, can we not talk about this until the man is at least buried.

Thanks in advance.

So on that note:

"I'm serious. It also means your lazy. It means you have no ability to research something before you open your ignorant flytrap. "

[trumad]

25. Not sure where you are coming from...

Last edited Tue Aug 12, 2014, 09:00 PM - Edit history (1)

[madinmaryland]

46. Not really...

Let's not start shit-fests at this point about how an American Icon died.

Thanks!

[trumad]

50. wow...

Why is this Op a shitfest? I don't see anyone disagreeing with me except you.

[Stand and Fight]

26. I completely agree with you, trumad...

My brother committed suicide over eleven years ago, and that was one of the most difficult times for me. I often have to bite my tongue and not bite people's heads off instead when I hear such things like it's cowardly or weak. When you're so low that you just can't see the light in anything, suicide may very seem to be your last and best option to stop the pain. Whether it is or not is debatable, but what can't be debated is that if someone commits suicide they must have been in a lot of anguish.

By the way, it's "you're". "Your" is the possessive form; whereas, "you're" is a contraction of the words "you" and "are". I know you may respond that it doesn't matter, but when I read your post, I noticed you got it right in the subject line, but not in the body of your message.

Again, thanks for sharing!

[trumad]

36. went back and looked at my post...

I butchered the grammar. Snarf.

Posted quick without a review... and that damn word gets me every time when I write fast.

Thanks for pointing it out.

[Skittles]

29. it means they have no clue what depression really means

they need to count themselves lucky and STFU

[Spitfire of ATJ]

30. Shepard Smith did that today...

[Xipe Totec]

31. Don McCloskey - Mr. Novocain

[WovenGems]

32. I could be wrong

I think the age group 45-60 has taken the lead from both old timers and teens for number of suicides. That group is thought of as a medical disaster in waiting thus no one really wants to hire them and they are most likely on the chopping block of corporations. A national brain drain that should not have happened.

[Capt. Obvious]

33. "you're"

several times

[trumad]

37. Thanks for pointing that out.

[noiretextatique]

34. living is not rosy and wonderful for everyone

Sometimes life is seemingly or actual pain. I do not feel the need to judge anyone's pain. RIP, Robin.

[HipChick]

35. I used to think suicide was selfish..

My friend took his life after undergoing cardiac surgery. He made full recovery....I even took time off work,and my work let me work remotely from the Cardiac Ward for nearly a month. When he came home, we had to make adjustments...and about 3 months later, I thought everything was fine. I was wrong... he had started to slip into a depression. I felt he was being needy and feeling sorry for himself. After all, he was a well educated smart person, great career...everything to live for. I was wrong...six months later i got a call...he was successful in not wanting to be here anymore. It took me a long time to understand.

[smirkymonkey]

38. Agree completely.

I despise that attitude. People who say that have absolutely no clue what it feels like to be severely clinically depressed.

[loyalsister]

39. A degree of selfishness is natural and rational

Depression and suicide are not. Some people who are suicidal hold such self contempt that they feel they are doing the world a favor by killing themselves. They believe their families and friends are better off without them.

It's difficult for those of us who feel that we have something to offer to imagine what that feels like.
I agree that it's lazy, and I would add a little self absorbed, to not try and understand that the kind of pain people who experience true depression have to work so hard to try to survive.

[riderinthestorm]

41. Agreed. 100% nt

[cwydro]

42. No introspective nor critical thinking skills.

Most likely a self centered, and yes...shallow, ass.

Stupid might be the best description actually.

[cheyanne]

43. In reply to "how can they do that to their family" response to suicide.

Here's how it works:


Depressed people can actually believe that their family would be better off with out them.

They hear:

"Why don't you get up?"

"Why don't you do your share around the house?"

"You lost your job and now you lay around the house all day."

"You can make yourself do it; you're just not trying."

"Here's her phone #, call her about the job."

"I can't do everything around here."


Most families don't know how to support a depressed person. They just make the person fill guilty about being a drain on everyone. Guilt is one step closer to suicide.


Here's how you DO support:

Make sure that the person is eating and keeping themselves clean. Change the bedding. Do the laundry. Take them to the doctor (and perhaps talk to the doctor yourself). Keep in close contact with them.

This isn't a case for "tough love". Tough love is appropriate when someone is doing something that hurts themselves or others. They are making choices and need to feel the consequences.

Depression is beyond the conscious control of the individual. They have a sickness and they need to be treated with loving care for what they cannot do for themselves.

signed,

Been there, done that

[ailsagirl]

44. The Guardian certainly agrees with you

Last edited Wed Aug 13, 2014, 12:05 AM - Edit history (1)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/12/robin-williams-sadness-clown-addiction-mental-illness

All illness is a great leveller, but none levels like mental illness. It remains the poor relation of medicine. Research is paltry. Therapies are halfhearted. Drugs are primitive. But addictive and depressive illness seems to probe deep into the relations between individuals and those around them. It is the crack in the window that can seem beyond mending. The sadness of the clown goes beyond irony. It is one of the great mysteries of life.

AND

http://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2014/aug/12/robin-williams-suicide-and-depression-are-not-selfish

A brilliant but tortured individual has taken his own life, and this is a tragedy. But levelling ignorant accusations of selfishness certainly won’t prevent this from happening again. People should never be made to feel worse for suffering from something beyond their control.

[Wounded Bear]

45. Not sure about birght or not...

but definitely a fucking insensitive prick.

[kickysnana]

48. That has kept me alive since I was four, it is my mantra. Don't try to take it away that last straw

cause dammit it works.

[Spirochete]

49. The last person that said that to me

i got a little upset at, and told her, "No, selfish is demanding someone continue to live an intolerable existence, just to avoid upsetting you"
Then I calmed down a little bit, and we talked about it some more, and she seemed to rethink her original statement.

[uppityperson]

51. Yup, selfish is wanting someone to stay alove in constant pain so YOU won't miss them