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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:55 AM Aug 2014

Nixon's Vietnam Treason (George Will Confirms)



George Will Confirms

Nixon’s Vietnam Treason

by BOB FITRAKIS & HARVEY WASSERMAN
CounterPunch, Aug. 13, 2014

Richard Nixon was a traitor.

The new release of extended versions of Nixon’s papers now confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a “conspiracy theory” by Republican conservatives. Now it has been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist George Will.

Nixon’s newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968, as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.

Nixon’s interference with these negotiations violated President John Adams’s 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign nation.

Published as the 40th Anniversary of Nixon’s resignation approaches, Will’s column confirms that Nixon feared public disclosure of his role in sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam peace talks. Will says Nixon established a “plumbers unit” to stop potential leaks of information that might damage him, including documentation he believed was held by the Brookings Institute, a liberal think tank. The Plumbers’ later break-in at the Democratic National Committee led to the Watergate scandal that brought Nixon down.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/13/nixons-vietnam-treason/

THIS is why Secret Government is undemocratic and evil.

107 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Nixon's Vietnam Treason (George Will Confirms) (Original Post) Octafish Aug 2014 OP
So when are they going to arrest John McCain for his actions regarding Syria? marble falls Aug 2014 #1
DOJ first needs prosecute Bush and Cheney for their treason and war crimes. Octafish Aug 2014 #3
Or... ReRe Aug 2014 #26
October Surprise 1980 billhicks76 Aug 2014 #56
is this legit? Clint0n Aug 2014 #61
ay-YUP! annabanana Aug 2014 #68
yep Clint0n Aug 2014 #70
Secret History billhicks76 Aug 2014 #77
i remember reading something on du Clint0n Aug 2014 #82
George Bush billhicks76 Aug 2014 #87
Us "older people" annabanana Aug 2014 #98
Know your BFEE: Poppy Bush was in Dallas the day JFK was assassinated. Octafish Aug 2014 #100
+1 Enthusiast Aug 2014 #89
Treason - a Bush family tradition for 3 generations dflprincess Aug 2014 #74
Bush Sr should still be in prison for that clear act of treason. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #88
Perhaps should be :-) emsimon33 Aug 2014 #86
Right after they arrest HW for his actions in Iran hootinholler Aug 2014 #4
Robert Parry documented Reagan's Treason Octafish Aug 2014 #9
Might as well mention Hank too hootinholler Aug 2014 #18
We need to go... ReRe Aug 2014 #29
A-EFFIN'-MEN!!! lastlib Aug 2014 #78
Right - one thing with Republicans Cosmocat Aug 2014 #19
Another thing they do DocMac Aug 2014 #66
It defies reality Cosmocat Aug 2014 #94
Richard Nixon’s long shadow Octafish Aug 2014 #2
Nixon was the reason LittleGirl Aug 2014 #5
Don't give up, LittleGirl! Octafish Aug 2014 #15
Wayne State eh? My favorite school in my favorite neighborhood. nt navarth Aug 2014 #33
My alma mater. Octafish Aug 2014 #35
good gracious me! navarth Aug 2014 #36
It would be an honor... Octafish Aug 2014 #38
The honor is mine.... navarth Aug 2014 #39
And Let's Not Forget Reagan And Iran cantbeserious Aug 2014 #6
Indeed - add it all together as Thom Hartmann does rurallib Aug 2014 #16
+1 navarth Aug 2014 #34
Right! JDPriestly Aug 2014 #55
+1 Enthusiast Aug 2014 #90
THIS crap is why it's difficult for honest people to win elections groundloop Aug 2014 #7
''Spherical Bastards.'' Octafish Aug 2014 #12
GREAT! Excellent reference, Octafish! "Spherical Bastards"! Sure describes the gas giants. calimary Aug 2014 #62
Loverly connecting the dots... erronis Aug 2014 #65
LBJ Knew It! Chasstev365 Aug 2014 #8
If LBJ released it, it is used up. happyslug Aug 2014 #22
+1 C Moon Aug 2014 #60
Stay away from Aussies, they are EVIL happyslug Aug 2014 #73
That is so great! :D C Moon Aug 2014 #83
The Aussie are "Rear Driven" i.e. massive muscles in the rear legs. happyslug Aug 2014 #103
Just remember Shep the best known Australia Shepherd happyslug Aug 2014 #105
Cool! At first I thought you were talking about the Akita in Japan. C Moon Aug 2014 #107
According to Counter punch I was WRONG happyslug Aug 2014 #79
Probably too busy covering his own ass. freebrew Aug 2014 #23
To prove it he'd have to publicly admit to tapping the phones of allied embassies JHB Aug 2014 #58
He could have it leaked. DocMac Aug 2014 #69
Not two days before the election happyslug Aug 2014 #104
Iran 1980 Chasstev365 Aug 2014 #10
The problem is not the "democrats" it is the country at large Cosmocat Aug 2014 #21
Sadly, I agree. harun Aug 2014 #37
Yep. SomeGuyInEagan Aug 2014 #49
The Republicans and Democrats are playing the Bad Cop, not so Bad Cop. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #52
Precisely. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #91
Actually, it is like the Harlem Globetrotters and Washington Generals Cosmocat Aug 2014 #93
A kick up JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #11
So what about all ReTHUGs since then malaise Aug 2014 #13
Probably about the second Tuesday of the week after Hell freezes over. Fuddnik Aug 2014 #28
They have the media. So....never? Enthusiast Aug 2014 #92
The early days or.... CanSocDem Aug 2014 #14
Clark Clifford fronted BCCI Octafish Aug 2014 #85
Over 21,000 American soldiers died in Vietnam in Nixon's first term. Jerry442 Aug 2014 #17
+1 with many more zeros... freshwest Aug 2014 #45
I was just wondering this - thanks for posting. cyberswede Aug 2014 #80
I remember pinboy3niner Aug 2014 #106
Nixon et al were also terrorists deminks Aug 2014 #20
Kissinger as well. And, St. Ronnie was straight out of his playbook. deminks Aug 2014 #24
George Will is a cretin who has said a lot of stupid things lately-he's throwing Nixon under the bus MADem Aug 2014 #25
Will's still a tool. In his column, he points out IRS abuse against ''conservative groups.'' Octafish Aug 2014 #40
Jimmy Carter doesn't like the guy, either--I agree with Jimmy!!! nt MADem Aug 2014 #41
When are these "leaders" going to be held accountable usaf-vet Aug 2014 #27
When the American people vote their followers out. I don't see that happening anytime soon. freshwest Aug 2014 #48
He wasn't in government in 1968. "THIS is why Secret Government is undemocratic and evil." stevenleser Aug 2014 #30
You are so right and the way you latch on to things, stevenleser, it's scary. Octafish Aug 2014 #75
By not prosecuting Nixon... Mike Nelson Aug 2014 #31
However... ReRe Aug 2014 #32
The word Patriot is NOT something we use to describe a rethug. Traitor is more fitting. jwirr Aug 2014 #42
And then there was the hostage crisis in 1980. Does this cause anyone to recalculate JDPriestly Aug 2014 #43
We could still execute Kissinger. enki23 Aug 2014 #44
Nixon should have been jailed for treason hifiguy Aug 2014 #46
Presidents are immune to prosecution except for oral sex by interns. nm rhett o rick Aug 2014 #53
Nixon pulled this trick before he was elected to sabotage LBJ/HHH. hifiguy Aug 2014 #57
Thank you, George Will, for this information Jack Rabbit Aug 2014 #47
Tricky Dick shadowmayor Aug 2014 #63
Republicans then created the "All presidents do this, Nixon just got caught" defense.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #50
Boy, do I remember that one. I heard it a million times. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #95
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Aug 2014 #51
Yeah well there are some here that laugh at any CT, even when proven right. Rex Aug 2014 #54
George is late to the game ramapo Aug 2014 #59
George Will was a player in the October Surprise on Jimmy Carter... Octafish Aug 2014 #99
George Will is a political apparatchik MinM Aug 2014 #101
Ronald Reagan did the same goddamn thing in the Iraq Hostage Crisis... KauaiK Aug 2014 #64
G H W Bush. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #96
K and R..nt Stuart G Aug 2014 #67
This is why I vote democrat jonjensen Aug 2014 #71
Don't forget obj had a tape recording of nixons treason jonjensen Aug 2014 #72
This is standard operating procedure. President commits crimes and he dies before anyone knows Lint Head Aug 2014 #76
So we have a 1968 surprise to add to the Gipper's October 1980 surprise. How quaint. Is there indepat Aug 2014 #81
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2014 #84
Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Aug 2014 #97
K&R nt raouldukelives Aug 2014 #102

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
3. DOJ first needs prosecute Bush and Cheney for their treason and war crimes.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:32 AM
Aug 2014

As far as I know, talking and thinking stupid aren't against the law.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
56. October Surprise 1980
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:58 PM
Aug 2014

Bush Sr did the same thing convincing Iran to keep the hostages until after the election in exchange for weapons. But weakling Democrats never went after him. Maybe because those involved with The Christic Institute that exposed this ended up DEAD. But we got 4 years of Bush Sr and 8 years of GW for this failure of courage.

Clint0n

(27 posts)
70. yep
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:50 PM
Aug 2014

i should have read more comments before posting a response. first ive heard of it. i wasnt around back then. - which makes me worried about what/if younger people will remember or hear about events happening now...

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
77. Secret History
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:45 PM
Aug 2014

Its harder to completely cover up crimes like this now because we have more alternative media. If it was just TV news and major newspapers like back then there would be much now that wouldn't have been revealed. Bush Sr was also the only person in America that couldn't recall where he was when JFK got murdered. Turns out he was in Dallas. He was a CIA liaison back then. The US media let him get away with keeping the hostages in Iran so Reagan would win. They were released on inauguration day. Then they let him get away with state sanctioned cocaine smuggling to fund death squads in Latin America. Then Clinton helped Bush Sr not get investigated and prepped the country for his son to preside over 911 and the Iraq War. Let's hope Obama letting his son off the hook isn't to pave the way for Jeb Bush to lead us back into evil.

Clint0n

(27 posts)
82. i remember reading something on du
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:18 AM
Aug 2014

about old bush's whereabouts when JFK got assassinated. something about him warning it was going to happen, but the telex stated he was in another country when he sent it.. would explain his rise to 'stardom' and cia chief etc..

....yeah forgiving your predecessor is the first thing they do when they get elected, its the precedent that just keeps on giving! its like the police chief covering up the beating, we just saw Obama justify/excuse bush era torture.../no action ..im just now realizing how long its been going on.. how do older people deal with this shit? kuz its really pissing me off, im only 30 and apparently TPTB(learned that term here) have been fucking everyone for a long time!

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
87. George Bush
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 03:13 AM
Aug 2014

Yeah I think that Telex came from Mexico. They claimed it was a different George Bush. Some people believe he was in charge of the shooting team in Dallas or Lee Harvey Oswalds handler. He was a failed Texas Republican Congressman and suddenly he is Chairman of the Republican Party>Ambassador to China>CIA Director>Vice President. Crazy

annabanana

(52,791 posts)
98. Us "older people"
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 07:46 AM
Aug 2014

keep telling the truth.. And SAVE original accounts, and now, in the internet age.. look for LINKS to primary sources.

And we don't give up.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
100. Know your BFEE: Poppy Bush was in Dallas the day JFK was assassinated.
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 08:54 AM
Aug 2014

We know this because that is what George Herbert Walker Bush told the FBI.

We also know, from the same FBI report, that Poppy heard someone threaten to kill President Kennedy.

So, why did Bush wait until AFTER JFK was assassinated to come foward with the warning?

Here's the document:



Here's a transcript of the text:



TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63

FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL

SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY

At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.

BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.

BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.

BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.

# # #



Here's background:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbushG.htm

Another FBI memo, from a week later, was unearthed just prior to the 1988 election. In it, "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency" was debriefed by J Edgar Hoover himself about the Pro- and Anti-Castro Cuban communities in Miami. 1988 Presidential Candidate Vice President ex-DCI ex-China legation head George Bush said "It wasn't me." Surprisingly and contrary to longstanding policy, the agency even released the name of another "George Bush" who worked at CIA for six months or so. That guy was surprised to find reporters on his doorstep and told them he was a photo analyst on loan from another government department and he never was debriefed by J Edgar Hoover, let alone for the anything to with the assassination of President Kennedy.



Here's a transcript of the above:



Date: November 29, 1963

To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State

From: John Edgar Hoover, Director

Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.

Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.

An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.

The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.

# # #



I do remember that GHWB was head of the CIA when the Church Committee was looking into the CIA assassination programs. He made things all friendly-like and turned what had been a serious hunt for truth under previous DCI Colby into another dog-and-pony show.

So. We wonder why America is in the shape it's in?

Austerity for the majority and a state of permanent war, where "money trumps peace."



hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
4. Right after they arrest HW for his actions in Iran
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:34 AM
Aug 2014

Anyone who thinks the hostages were held and then released because they were afeared of Raygun is fucking clueless.

I'm sure they'll get right on that.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
9. Robert Parry documented Reagan's Treason
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:50 AM
Aug 2014

The October Surprise has been corroborated by eyewitness testimony, including that from Jimmy Carter, Abolhassan Bani-Sadr, Yasser Arafat, Gary Sick, William Casey, Cyrus Hashemi, Lawrence Silberman, many other direct participants, as well as by declassified, tossed and leaked documents.

http://consortiumnews.com/the-new-october-surprise-series/

The Reagan-Bush-Casey cabal has worked overtime to discredit Parry. It's the truth they fear, not because they each have a conscience, but because they know they should face justice.

lastlib

(23,233 posts)
78. A-EFFIN'-MEN!!!
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:29 PM
Aug 2014

That filthy son-of-a-bitch needs to feel the fires of Hell between his toes (and his butt-cheeks)!

Cosmocat

(14,564 posts)
19. Right - one thing with Republicans
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:15 AM
Aug 2014

They go with what worked before until it stops working (and well after that point, most often).

DocMac

(1,628 posts)
66. Another thing they do
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:00 PM
Aug 2014

is to blame Democrats for what Republicans have done. It's amazing that they get away with it, but they do.

Cosmocat

(14,564 posts)
94. It defies reality
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 07:17 AM
Aug 2014

They honestly do not even know it at this point, either. They just have such an extraordinarily deluded sense of self righteousness they truly believe they are more patriotic/special and that is the end of it.

Some jackass at the Y, I spent years, literally, trying to talk politics to him. He was always wearing these hate on Obama t-shirts, and just is an all in teabagging, conservative type guy.

No matter the substance of what I said, I was always just the liberal Rush told him about.

He is the resolute no depending on government guy and I was the bilking off the government lib.

Meanwhile, his wife is a public school teacher and he proudly noted that he did not take his company's health coverage because his wifes was better, so my tax dollars DIRECTLY pay half his families income and their health coverage. AND, his job - selling textbooks, so his income is garnered from ... tax dollars.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
2. Richard Nixon’s long shadow
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:29 AM
Aug 2014


Richard Nixon’s long shadow

By George F. Will
Washington Post, Opinion writer August 6 

At about 5:15 p.m. on June 17, 1971, in the Oval Office, the president ordered a crime: “I want it implemented on a thievery basis G------ it, get in and get those files. Blow the safe and get it.”

The burglary he demanded was not the one that would occur exactly one year later at the Democratic National Committee’s office in the Watergate complex. Richard Nixon was ordering a break-in at the Brookings Institution, a think tank, to seize material concerning U.S. diplomacy regarding North Vietnam during the closing weeks of the 1968 presidential campaign.

As they sometimes did regarding his intemperate commands, Nixon’s aides disregarded the one concerning Brookings. But from a White House atmosphere that licensed illegality came enough of it to destroy him.

SNIP...

In October 1968, Nixon’s lead over his Democratic opponent, Vice President Hubert Humphrey, was dwindling, partly because Humphrey had proposed a halt to U.S. bombing of North Vietnam. Five days before the election, President Lyndon Johnson announced the halt, hoping to convene peace talks. One impediment, however, was South Vietnam’s reluctance to participate. Its recalcitrance reflected its hope that it would be better supported by a Nixon administration.

On July 3, 1968, a Nixon campaign aide, Dick Allen, sent a memo proposing a meeting with Nixon and Anna Chennault, a Chinese American active in Republican politics. She would bring to the meeting South Vietnam’s ambassador to Washington. The memo said the meeting must be “top secret.” Nixon wrote on the memo: “Should be but I don’t see how — with the S.S. [Secret Service].” On July 12, however, she and the ambassador did meet secretly in New York with Nixon who, she later said, designated her his “sole representative” to the Saigon government.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/13/nixons-vietnam-treason/

Nixon's Shadow covers America to the present day.

LittleGirl

(8,287 posts)
5. Nixon was the reason
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:37 AM
Aug 2014

I didn't get into politics until 2007 because I thought they were all crooks like him. I guess I was right.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
15. Don't give up, LittleGirl!
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:09 AM
Aug 2014

There are good people in politics. They just don't win as many elections as they should.

What Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. said:

"Oh, I know. Well, I always say that Republicans are 95 percent corrupt, and the Democrats are 75 percent corrupt. And the level of corruption reflects the amount of money, of corporate money, they’re taking. I mean, they’ve got AT&T all over their bags, and they’ve got these clean coal signs that are, you know, up and down the streets, that you get mugged by these clean coal people who are apparently paying for half the convention. So, it’s very disturbing to me, Amy."

SOURCE: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/8/we_need_to_remind_people_that

SOURCE 2: I heard him state the same percentages at Wayne State University in person.

navarth

(5,927 posts)
36. good gracious me!
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:57 AM
Aug 2014

Octafish, I have hesitated to ask.....would you be interested in being added to my list of Detroit DUers?

Each addition to the list brings me closer to the time when I will get my lazy ass to invite everybody to meet for a beer/beverage/smoke of choice...perhaps somewhere in Midtown?

rurallib

(62,415 posts)
16. Indeed - add it all together as Thom Hartmann does
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:11 AM
Aug 2014

with the Nixon treason, the Reagan treason, Bush I's part in that and Bush II's enshrinement by a coup of the Supreme Court and as Hartmann says there hasn't been a legitimate Republican presidency since Dwight Eisenhower.

groundloop

(11,519 posts)
7. THIS crap is why it's difficult for honest people to win elections
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:45 AM
Aug 2014

While we're reminiscing about dirty tricks used to win elections let's not leave out Reagan's interference in the Iranian hostage crisis and the Iran-Contra affair. It's a sad fact that it's easier to get ahead (in business or politics) by being a lying bastard.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
12. ''Spherical Bastards.''
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:55 AM
Aug 2014

Fritz Zwicky used to call other astronomers at the Mount Wilson observatory "Spherical bastards."

Why spherical? "Because, no matter what side you look at them, they were still bastards."

http://www.dynamical-systems.org/zwicky/Zwicky-e.html



calimary

(81,267 posts)
62. GREAT! Excellent reference, Octafish! "Spherical Bastards"! Sure describes the gas giants.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:15 PM
Aug 2014

Especially the toxic gas giants of hate radio/TV.

Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
8. LBJ Knew It!
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:47 AM
Aug 2014

Why didn't LBJ make it public? If he did, Humphrey would have won and continued the New Deal coalition, there would have no Nixon, no Watergate, no Ford to Carter to Reagan. God: it could have been so different.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
22. If LBJ released it, it is used up.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:34 AM
Aug 2014

LBJ had been in the Senate for years before he became Vice President, thus learned that blackmail is more effective long term then short term, i.e. keep the black mail item secret EXCEPT to the victim of the blackmail (in this case Nixon) and use that black mail over and over again as long as the victim fears the blackmail. If you release the blackmail, the damage to the victim is done and they can address it. If you just THREATENED to release the blackmail the victim does NOT know its full impact, thus will pay more to keep it secret then they would have to spend to address it when it is releases.

I suspect this is what LBJ was doing, he wanted to preserve his Great Society Programs, that Nixon was on record on wanting to kill. Thus when Nixon did win, LBJ could black mail Nixon to force Nixon to implement those programs (Which Nixon ended up doing, through he did kill many of them). LBJ always throught long term AND what would his enemies do if they were in power.

As to releasing them in the 1968 election, Nixon would have dismissed the accusations and even the tapes as election years politics. Furthermore the American Population opinion on Vietnam was in Flux, till about June 1968 the Majority of Americans still supported the war in Vietnam and when the Majority shifted to opposition, LBJ actually started to pull out troops. LBJ remembered the 1950s and "Who Lost China" argument of the GOP (It was a line to blame the Democrats on China becoming Communists). Thus until the Majority of Americas started to oppose the War, LBJ was going to stay in Vietnam, it was the price he had to pay to get his Great Society Program passed and implemented. LBJ did NOT want to give the GOP any quick one liners thus LBJ send in the troops for the American People wanted them to go (And LBJ started to pull the Troops out once the American People wanted them out).

On the other hand, LBJ knew that you had a corp of voters who would shift from the Democratic Party to the GOP on Vietnam (Thus LBJ told Humphrey NOT to become anti-war in the actual Campaign). Nixon was already the "Peace Candidate" in the 1968 Campaign and if you listen to the actual tapes, all Nixon is saying is wait till after the Election and I will make sure you get a better deal then the South Vietnamese Government was getting in the 1968 negotiations. Nixon would have responded to that release of tapes, as first, how dare the US RECORD private conversation and point out the LBJ as "Big Brother" AND then just say the statement was just his way of encouraging the South Vietnamese to participate in the negotiations.

Thus the actual recording would have a flare for a week or so, and then quickly forgotten by most voters. On the other hand, if kept back and used as blackmail, could be used over and over again for Nixon would NOT know how bad the release of the recordings would have been and thus give in to avoid the recordings being released.

Thus I can see LBJ thinking, just releasing the tapes would use up they value quickly, maybe be used up within a week. On the other hand Nixon could NOT know that and would do almost anything to avoid those tapes being released every time the threat of they being released was made. LBJ had a hammer on Nixon that LBJ was NOT going to waste just to get Humphrey elected.

I am of the opinion that even the Watergate break in was to get those tapes, nothing else justified the risk of getting caught. That is how much Nixon feared those tapes. Worse it was a unjustified fear, for I think like LBJ, those tapes could be addressed quickly on freedom of Speech AND support for Negotiations positions and quickly forgotten, but Nixon was so paranoid that LBJ saw he could use them as a hammer.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
73. Stay away from Aussies, they are EVIL
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:05 PM
Aug 2014

For example, look as this poor defenseless poodle is being stalked by a vicious Australian Shepherd.



Another photo of a poor Poodle having her month being force full of Aussie fur:



An Aussie as a snake in the grass:




The Poodle and the Aussie grew up together but they do play hard:



I saw you had a Aussie German Shepherd mix, if by Aussie you mean an Australian Cattle Dog that is OK, but I like the all American Australian Shepherd whose only connection to Australia is the name. Present theory is it evolved and was developed in North America with emphasis on the sheep and cattle ranches of Montana.

The best theory on the name Australian Shepherd is that it was the dog to get to work the Sheep from
Australia that the US started to import in the 1890s. i.e it was named after the Sheep not the Country.

Unlike the Australian Cattle Dog, which WAS breed in Australia and has the large ears to help cool it down in cold weather and a thin single coat to keep it cool in hot weather, the Australia Shepherd has short floppy ears and a double coat to keep it warm in sub-freezing weather.

Yes the Australian Cattle Dog is breed for HOT weather, the Australia Shepherd for COLD weather.

C Moon

(12,213 posts)
83. That is so great! :D
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:30 AM
Aug 2014

Ours was a rescue who was found on the street when she was 10 months old. Animal rescue put her down as German Shep /Australian Shep mix. I think they were pretty close.

She does that same hunker down and sprint at a dog that yours appeared to do there. She is really fast! and loves being chased, doing sharp turns to shake those after her...it's quite amazing to watch.

Oh, she also does the heel nipping when chasing. Some dogs get scared and cry when she does that, as well as some owners. But she doesn't mean any harm, it's that herding thing.

We hope to take her to the snow this year. I think she's going to love it.

Great dogs you got there, perfect buddies!!
Thanks for sharing the photos, I love them!

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
103. The Aussie are "Rear Driven" i.e. massive muscles in the rear legs.
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:59 PM
Aug 2014

The Poodle has longer legs and can outrun the Aussie, but the Aussie can make a cut left or right faster then the Poodle (The Poodle is considered the second most trainable dog, second to the Border Collie, I have seen the Poodle do some Aussie cuts that she learned from playing with the Aussie).

One of the down side of an Aussie is they first choice is to nip with their teeth. The Poodle just refuses to do that. It causes some problems between the two in that at home the Poodle tends to walk carefully around the Aussie to avoid being bitten. On the other hand, in the open field it is the Poodle who leads and the Aussie that follows.

My problem with the Poodle, it is the first "Hunting" type dog I have lived with, all of my previous dogs have been Shepherds (Australian Shepherds, mix shepherds and border collies). The Poodle is a Standard Poodle not a miniature or toy poodle. The Standard Poodle goes back to at least the 1300s when it is first reported as the main hunting dogs of German Peasants. Of the three types of Poodle, the Standard Poodle is the largest and retains all of its hunting instincts. I was NOT quite prepared for what that meant. Shepherds work with people and rarely go to far away from people UNLESS they have a good reason to do so (i,e, to round up some sheep. cattle or some other duty). Hunting dogs operate away from people to drive game or chase game to people. Thus hunting dogs tend to go much further afield then shepherds.

Now, male dogs go further afield then female dogs, if you are looking at two dogs of the same breed. Both the Aussie and the Poodle are females, but the Female Poodle will go three to four times (and at least four times, for I put a camera on her back up to 10 times) further then any MALE shepherd I have owned. The Aussie has gone further then any other shepherd I have owned, but only when she is following the Poodle AND the Aussie tends to turn back way before the Poodle does (The Aussie's fear of being to far from the human members of her pack overcomes her fear of not being around when the Poodle stirs something up).

As to winter, I have had no problem with the Aussie, but the Poodle tends to get "iced". What I mean by "iced" is her paws just gets covered with snow, that melts and refreezes around her paws. The general solution to that is to cut away the fur from the legs (this is how the fancy cuts for Poodles started out) or use Musher's Secret. The Aussie does NOT tend to need Musher's Secret anywhere near what the Poodle does (and most times does not need it at all) but it is something you may want to invest in before going out in the snow with the Aussie.

Musher's Secret is a wax that goes on the paws of the dog and prevents most icing. Now, in the East we get mostly "Wet Snow", which is a snow that falls around the freezing point. It is almost melting as it falls to the ground and thus contain a lot of water. That type of snow is the type of snow that makes icing (and good snowballs for the same reason). When you get into colder snows, below 25, you get a more solid snow crystal that requires a lot more heat to melt. It is called "Cold Snow" for it falls at when temperatures are solidly below Freezing (and good cut off is 25 degree Fahrenheit, but that is only a guideline, for how "Wet" is the snow is mostly what is the temperature in the air as it forms and falls NOT what the temperature is when the snow finally hits the ground.

I bring this up, for Musher's Secret is often NOT needed in such Cold Snows, the snow is to cold to melt with contact with fur and thus does not melt and cling to the fur. Just a comment on the strength and weaknesses of Musher's Secret.

As to dog booties, most are NOT needed except as temperatures get around zero Fahrenheit. The dogs tend NOT to like them and do they best to knock them off, thus do NOT use booties unless you are willing to spend the time to put them on the dog and then watch the dog do his or her best to take them off (and if that does not work lose them on the trail and you having to find them and put them back on the dog).

From what I have read, among dog sledders booties tend to be used ONLY in the coldest temperatures. I have used booties on the poodle, she still loses them but did keep down the icing, but I have found Musher's Secret a better solution for I never take her out if temperatures falls below 20 (not that she can NOT take it, she can, I just refuse to take her for a walk at those temperatures)

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
105. Just remember Shep the best known Australia Shepherd
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 09:10 PM
Aug 2014

Shep became famous as the "Dog that met the trains".

In 1936 Shep's master died and was taken by train back east. Shep tried to get on the train and then waited at the station on every train that arrived to see if his master would return on one. Shep's action made the news and he became a national celebrity, but never did attach himself to anyone else, but waited on the trains. Shep was already an mature dog in 1936, Shep did this till 1942, when he was waiting on a rail and a train came up behind him and hit him. Old age, arthritis and deafness did him in. He was given a funnel and a statute was placed over his grave, which overlooked the Train station.

http://www.fortbenton.com/shep%20images/shep%20brochure2014.pdf

When Shep was alive, about 1930 to January 1942, what we call the Australia Shepherd was not yet a breed, it was still more of a type. A breed is a dog (or other animal such as a horse), whose blood lines can be traced back several generation as being of that breed. A Type is the name given to dogs (and other animals), whose characteristics are well known but there is no registration of breeding. All Breeds started as Types, then people started to trace blood lines and converted what had been a Type to a Breed. Most dogs were types prior to about 1800, it is only in the 1800s that concerns about breeding became important (Most horses were Types prior to 1700, and except for Thoroughbred and Arabs most horses stayed types till after 1800).

Australia Shepherds were more Types then Breed into the 1950s, even today some Australia Shepherd breeders will breed in a dog of questionable parentage IF IT IS A GOOD HERDER (This seems also to be a rule with Border Collies). Such breeding is much less common then in was as late as the 1950s, but I have heard stories that it still continues among Aussies in use on ranches.

Thus Shep having a tail does NOT mean Shep was NOT an Australia Shepherd. The lack of a Tail was one of the defining characteristic of Australia Shepherds but it was never an absolute rule. Shep was to stocky to be a Border Collie but Shep may have had Border Collie in him (and this the tail) but Shep looks more like an Australia Shepherd then a Border Collie (Through Shep's coat colors appear to be more Border Collie then Australia Shepherd). Just a comment on one of the most famous dogs in American History which may have been an Aussie:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201004/loyal-dogs-wait-north-american-version-greyfriars-bobby

Here is the only know photo of Shep:



He is the original statute over his grave:



http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/4367

It is out of the way, overlooking the railroad station, a station that is no longer a stop on any passenger train. Here is the grave as seen from the station:



As seen from the railroad tracks. This spot was picked for his grave for it overlooked the track and while he was alive was seen on that hill looking for trains to come to town:

In the 1990s a new Statute was made, this time in town so tourist can see it:



Shep is famous enough to make it on the front page of Fort Benton Montana's official website:
http://www.fortbenton.com/

http://www.fortbenton.com/shep%20images/shep%20brochure2014.pdf

C Moon

(12,213 posts)
107. Cool! At first I thought you were talking about the Akita in Japan.
Fri Aug 15, 2014, 12:47 AM
Aug 2014

Old Shep is a great story. I love it. Thanks!

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
79. According to Counter punch I was WRONG
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:34 PM
Aug 2014
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/13/nixons-vietnam-treason/

I always thought the phone conversation caught on tape was earlier to the election year, NOT that it only reached LBJ on November 2, 1968. That throws a completely different winkle into the mix.

November 2, is only three says before election day November 5th 1968.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1968

Now, LBJ liked to blackmail people, but he also knew how to use a hammer. Post election I believe he used the tape to blackmail Nixon as I said in the previous post, but my post about the actually election year is clearly wrong by the facts of the Counter punch report.

Sorry, Hoover gave LBJ that information way to late in the election cycle. Hoover was a man who could be trusted to do what is good for the FBI AND the GOP (and in that order). LBJ may have wanted to release that phone call, but according to the article LBJ was talked out of it (It is a lot easier to talk someone out of something, if that is a tendency of that person in the first place, thus LBJ may NOT have released the letter even if all of his advisers advocated to release it).

LBJ was a politician. The days before an election is always critical, but the release of something unexpected may be viewed as a political election attack not as something real. i.e. Hoover may have supplied LBJ with the confirmation of the phone call to set LBJ up to take a hit after the information was released. This is something LBJ would have thought of, for he had dealt with Hoover for years (going back to the 1940s when LBJ was first elected to Federal Office).

This confirmation was something that needed to be released in October NOT November, so that people could be told what this phone conversation meant. In November you had time to release the tape, but not enough time to address what it meant (and remember the GOP would be attacking the release of the Tape as a election day stunt and LBJ would have to have about a week to explain WHY it was NOT and why the tape was so important).

This the TIMING of Hoover's confirmation of the phone call is critical It was close enough to be released, but in many ways to close to be explained, but close enough to be attack as an election day stunt. Sounds like a pro-GOP maneuver by Hoover, giving LBJ enough rope to hang Humphrey. LBJ's advisers as well as LBJ came to see it that way and kept in quiet in the election, but they knew it exist and could be released any time they wanted to punish Nixon. LBJ would have released it if he had received it in October (Except the last weeks of October, you are getting to close to election day, but the middle of October would have given LBJ enough time to release the tape and Explain what it meant AND any GOP attack on the release of the tape as an election year stunt would have been overcome by the explanation of WHY what Nixon said on the tape was so bad, i.e. a violation of US Law that NIXON knowingly violated.

freebrew

(1,917 posts)
23. Probably too busy covering his own ass.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:45 AM
Aug 2014

His friendship with Dulles and other Texans, maybe implications of his involvement with the JFK 'problem'?

Gulf of Tonkin, all the southern Dems pissed about the Civil rights Act, lots and lots of reasons he didn't run for a 2nd term. Oh, Hoover was still running things(something I keep forgetting and I think lots of others do as well).

Too bad, though. Nixon was just another step in the wrong direction.

JHB

(37,160 posts)
58. To prove it he'd have to publicly admit to tapping the phones of allied embassies
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:15 PM
Aug 2014

Once upon a time, one needed to at least keep up the pretense that such things just were not done.

DocMac

(1,628 posts)
69. He could have it leaked.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:21 PM
Aug 2014

I think there were reporters back then. Reporters that could sway public opinion.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
104. Not two days before the election
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 05:06 PM
Aug 2014

Two days is not enough time to do anything, except leak it and watch the GOP attack the leak as a political stunt. Two weeks, would have been enough time to leak the tape AND counter any attacks on the tape as being an election year stunt i.e. "Yes, we released the tape for the election, because what Nixon says on the tape is a CRIME and we released it only when the tape was shown to be REAL".

As to reporters, I remember reading about the Scopes Monkey Trial of the 1920s, as the trial was going on a reporter saw another reporter finish off his report of that days events. The reporter asked the reporting writing the report why was he doing it while the trial was going on, the retort back was short and accurate "I know what my editor wants".

News has ALWAYS been censored by someone, and most time NOT the government. For a reporter to release that tape he would have to have the support of his superiors on his paper OR his network, no support no report. Given most newspapers even in the 1960s were corporate owned, most backed Nixon (even some that endorsed Humphrey). Furthermore given the short time involved (The tape were only confirmed on November 2, election day was November 5, 1968) I do not see anyone being able to get approval of his or her superiors before the election.

Sorry, while I know think LBJ wanted to release the tape, he knew it would be a waste of time if released three days before the election. I suspect he accepted that and decided to keep the tapes secret for later political black mail.

Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
10. Iran 1980
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:53 AM
Aug 2014

This was the same playbook of the Republicans in 1980: Reagan's men William Casey and George H. Bush cut a deal with the Iranians to keep the hostages in Iran until after the election and then we started selling Iran weapons. This of course led to Iran Contra. Will the Democrats ever learn to be ruthless and expose all of the Republicans cheating ways?

Cosmocat

(14,564 posts)
21. The problem is not the "democrats" it is the country at large
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:21 AM
Aug 2014

I have really come to the strong belief that the pols are who they are ... Either way.

The problem is US, collectively.

We don't give a shit to actually pay attention, much less make sober, common sense decisions in the voting booth.

Republicans have been pulling the same shit for my entire life, going on 50 years.

But, they not only are never held accountable, exponentially over recent history, they have an increasingly STRONGER hold on the discussion and views of the people of this country.

Absolutely, democrats are spineless cowards. And, MAYBE if they actually got in the game and fought, it would be somewhat different.

But, end of the day, we the people gobble up republican bullshit, we happily elect/re-elect them no matter what crazy ass shit they say or do, no matter how much they fuck things up, and we punish people like Howard Dean for saying and doing the right things.

We are getting what we want, frankly.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
52. The Republicans and Democrats are playing the Bad Cop, not so Bad Cop.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:51 PM
Aug 2014

And some get soo excited be able to express their freedom and liberty by voting for the "not so Bad Cop."

Cosmocat

(14,564 posts)
93. Actually, it is like the Harlem Globetrotters and Washington Generals
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 07:11 AM
Aug 2014

I get and agree with your point, and sadly, yeah, the lesser evil thing applies mostly.

But, I think the best analogy of what we have today is that the republicans are the Harlem Globetrotters, they are the SHOW, they entertain, they do the fancy tricks, while the democrats are the Washington Generals, they "play defense" by waving their arms, but never move their feet and really try, they let the republicans dribble the ball between their legs and otherwise humiliate them.

malaise

(268,998 posts)
13. So what about all ReTHUGs since then
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:56 AM
Aug 2014
Nixon’s interference with these negotiations violated President John Adams’s 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign nation.


WHen will they actually be charged with treason?

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
28. Probably about the second Tuesday of the week after Hell freezes over.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:11 AM
Aug 2014

In Washington, about 90% are self-serving traitorous bastards.

 

CanSocDem

(3,286 posts)
14. The early days or....
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:05 AM
Aug 2014


...The Events Leading Up To My Distrust of the USA.

Whatever I was reading at the time reported on the LBJ charge. The threat of shaking "the foundations of the nation" sounded like a good thing to me at the time. Had we known then that that justification would be used to silence the critics of the multitude of similar manoeuvers since, we might have been more inclined to "nip it in the bud".


According to Parry, LBJ wanted to go public with Nixon’s treason. But Clark Clifford, an architect of the CIA and a pillar of the Washington establishment, talked Johnson out of it. LBJ’s close confidant warned that the revelation would shake the foundations of the nation.


.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
85. Clark Clifford fronted BCCI
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 01:33 AM
Aug 2014
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/13clifford.htm

Amazingly corrupt eminence gris, he'd been at the center of power since Truman, helping birth the National Security Act of 1947.

Jerry442

(1,265 posts)
17. Over 21,000 American soldiers died in Vietnam in Nixon's first term.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:11 AM
Aug 2014
http://www.archives.gov/research/military/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics.html

Then there were the deaths of Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians as well as the aftereffects, like the rise of Pol Pot.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
106. I remember
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 09:22 PM
Aug 2014

Nixon had been in office 3 months when I arrived in-country. I lost a lot of friends back then...

R.I.P.

deminks

(11,014 posts)
20. Nixon et al were also terrorists
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:15 AM
Aug 2014

They planned to fire bomb the Brookings Institute. And anyone who defends them is 'palling around with terrorists.'

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/22/us/tapes-show-nixon-ordering-theft-of-files.html

(snip)

An aide to Mr. Nixon, Charles Colson testified before the Senate Watergate committee that Mr. Nixon had talked of a plan to ''firebomb'' Brookings in the days after the June 30 meeting, according to the report. The fire would have allowed agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation to accompany firemen into the building and get the documents Mr. Nixon wanted.

The newspaper also quoted from Nixon's 1975 memoirs, in which he recounts telling his staff that he wanted Vietnam files that he believed were at Brookings delivered to him, ''even if it meant having to get it surreptitiously.''

National Archive logs and Haldeman's diaries note that Mr. Nixon's national security adviser, Henry A. Kissinger, Attorney General John N. Mitchell and Defense Secretary Melvin R. Laird were present at the June 30 meeting.

(end snip)

deminks

(11,014 posts)
24. Kissinger as well. And, St. Ronnie was straight out of his playbook.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:49 AM
Aug 2014

from the OP:

(snip)

But in 1973, Kissinger was given the Nobel Peace Prize for negotiating the same settlement he helped sabotage in 1968.

(end snip)

What else would George Will like to share with the American people?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
25. George Will is a cretin who has said a lot of stupid things lately-he's throwing Nixon under the bus
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:04 AM
Aug 2014

to get back in the public's good graces, perhaps..?

Of course, Nixon was already well under that bus, and we don't have him to kick around anymore, either!

I don't think this is a real surprise to anyone, but the confirmation source is interesting.

Hmmm....that liberal think tank isn't sufficiently liberal for some folks on this board, I learned the other day!

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
40. Will's still a tool. In his column, he points out IRS abuse against ''conservative groups.''
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 01:31 PM
Aug 2014

...without pointing out all the abuses by Nixon and the rest after they appointed the "top three positions" at that agency.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow/2014/08/06/fad8c00c-1ccb-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html

Absolutely spot-on regarding the liberal think tank and the board, MADem. Democracy, we have a problem.

usaf-vet

(6,186 posts)
27. When are these "leaders" going to be held accountable
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:09 AM
Aug 2014

for their actions. Unlawful activity is unlawful no matter who you are. Treason is treason. Until theses traitors are brought before the Hague and held accountable it will continue to happen. Bush and Cheney should be procecuted for their illegal activities that got us into Iraq.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
48. When the American people vote their followers out. I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:32 PM
Aug 2014

The red states keep on sending those who still see those crimes as smart or justified. They will never punish them, if they did, they'd be tossed from office.

It's unwise to throw out all incumbents either, regardless of party. We've seen where this can lead to their being replaced with newbies who are incapable of working with others, and really, are just there to make money than they could elsewhere, and fully intending to reward their sponsors and then leave their seats to get more money.

Tossing Democats out is the nihilist view, and please note there is nothing of that in your post, I'm just trying to think it through here.

It leads to more radical rightists gaining control, the same as Democrats staying home does. I've had to come to the sad conclusion that those who say they won't vote, benefit from the currently unjust status quo but won't admit it.

The red state voters, unless they want to see more destruction of the egalitarian aspects of the government, always vote to keep Senators and Representatives in office no matter what they do that allegedly offends their sense of right and wrong. This shows it is not about morals, but money to maintain their position.

They know seniority determines what bills will be offered, laws passed, programs put into action or defunded and defend them to the point of insanity for the rest of the nation, if they see their self-interests being met. It sets the entire tone of how the government treats all of us that don't agree with the rightist agenda.

That's why the argument of 'they vote against their own self-interest' is incorrect. They simply don't have the same interests as the mostly urban liberal voters do. Red state true believers vote in every election, since it pays to keep their guys in office for purely selfish reasons.

Just sayin'

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
30. He wasn't in government in 1968. "THIS is why Secret Government is undemocratic and evil."
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:19 AM
Aug 2014

He was a private citizen with contacts who was running for President.

I agree that if true, this makes him a traitor and lawbreaker, but it doesnt support your other narrative.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
75. You are so right and the way you latch on to things, stevenleser, it's scary.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:25 PM
Aug 2014

You have an amazing focus and are so correct, Nixon was not in office in 1968.

Of course, many of his old cronies were in government. As evidenced in the tape recordings both LBJ and Nixon made, Nixon engaged in treason before he was in office and after he got back in office. As LBJ "let it go," there was no accountability then and Nixon and his descendants have run roughshod over the Constitution and Bill of Rights ever since.

My main point in using the term "Secret Government" is that it is most undemocratic. For Democracy to work, for our Constitution to be enforced and our Republic to function, We the People need to know what the government is doing in our name. Secret Government -- the military, spying, and police agencies -- now work so far above the law as to consider themselves immune to prosecution. And "We the People" are their main enemies.

An important example of why I don't trust secret government: Nixon appointed a corrupt Secret Service agent to lead Sen. Ted Kennedy's Secret Service protective detail, when EMK considered a run for the White House in 1972. Haldeman told Nixon the man had volunteered to demonstrate his loyalty by murder, he'd "kill on command," if only Haldeman or Tricky Dick were to ask. I never would have known about this, were it not for Watergate, the little secret government conspiracy Nixon and most of the press at first said was nothing to worry our little heads over.

Mike Nelson

(9,955 posts)
31. By not prosecuting Nixon...
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:25 AM
Aug 2014

...the US encouraged this behavior. Sorry, Kennedy family, the profiles in courage award to Ford was a mistake.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
32. However...
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:46 AM
Aug 2014

... since when do we need any "confirmation" from George-over-the-hill-Will? He's probably having his "McNamara moment." Doesn't make him any less sleazy. He's made his living off of defending those snakes for decades.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
43. And then there was the hostage crisis in 1980. Does this cause anyone to recalculate
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:00 PM
Aug 2014

the chances that the Republicans intervened in the Carter administration hostage negotiations in order to push Reagan into the White House?

If it worked for Nixon, why wouldn't it work for Reagan? Same bunch of crooks in the Republican leadership then as in 1980 and as now. Same bunch of crooks.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
46. Nixon should have been jailed for treason
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 03:10 PM
Aug 2014

for the rest of his thoroughly unnatural life for those shenanigans. I was thunderstruck the first time I read about the Chennault connection. Also, you can draw a straight line from the Nixon/Mafia/CIA plots to attempt to assassinate Fidel Castro straight to Watergate while taking a brief detour to the assassination of JFK. It's all in Lamar Waldron's Watergate: The Secret History, which is essential reading.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
57. Nixon pulled this trick before he was elected to sabotage LBJ/HHH.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:05 PM
Aug 2014

He was just private citizen Nixon at the time. He could have been thrown into the hoosegow for good.

As Hunter Thompson so vividly put it, Nixon was so goddamn crooked he needed two people to help him screw his pants on every day.

shadowmayor

(1,325 posts)
63. Tricky Dick
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 08:21 PM
Aug 2014

Mr. Jack,

Always love to see Nixon getting dug up and kicked and slapped again! However, George Will can eat a turd. Robert Parry and others have reported on this at least since December 2008. Now that the great and serious Oz, er George and his hairpiece have opined, its official folks! Tweety and others will no doubt finally realize a little bit more what a real slime ball Nixon was; too late and too little as usual for the MSM.

After the election, Kissinger told Haldeman and Nixon that LBJ's people were right - that the war was unwinnable. Kissinger said we couldn't win with a million troops in Vietnam for 10 straight years. At that point it was decided to extend the war beyond the 1972 election to better Nixon's chance for re-election. This is probably worse than the Treason he committed to win the 1968 election. How many tens of thousands GI's died because of this decision? and how many millions in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos?

In my lifetime the Republican Party has performed shamelessly to great effect. Nixon's Treason in 1968 and warmongering in 1972, Reagan's Treasonous October Surprise in 1980 and his terrible reign of death in Central America in 1984. Daddy won in 1988 so he could cover his crimes while Vice President. And then Sonny stole the 2000 election with his 5-4 Supremely inspired ruling, and he along with Turdblossom employed vote squashing and discounting in 2004 to steal Ohio and other states.

The typical Democratic response? Tut tut.

Where oh where is the outrage, the true sense of treason and treachery, and why doesn't the Democratic Party scream to high heaven about the ills of Republican leadership?

As Warren Zevon said, it's time to enjoy a sandwich and watch the hummingbirds.

Glad to know that even George Will can no longer ignore this part of American history, but I still want to feed him a turd.

The Shadow Mayor


 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
50. Republicans then created the "All presidents do this, Nixon just got caught" defense....
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:04 PM
Aug 2014

...of course they couldn't provide actual examples of other Presidents doing this.

Also: Think of the timeline here. Watergate happened just before Nixon was re-elected in a second landslide. He did this act of treason prior to his first term.

See how SLOW things are in DC?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
54. Yeah well there are some here that laugh at any CT, even when proven right.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 04:55 PM
Aug 2014

I just cannot take them seriously.

ramapo

(4,588 posts)
59. George is late to the game
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 05:49 PM
Aug 2014

Nixon's treason has been widely discussed by many authors and was suspected right from the get go. LBJ was aware of it but let it go.

That slimy bastard has the blood of tens of thousands on his hands. In some ways, Nixon looks almost sane compared to some of the yahoos in politics today but then you remind yourself of how Nixon got himself elected.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
99. George Will was a player in the October Surprise on Jimmy Carter...
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 08:33 AM
Aug 2014

George the Shill Will was working as a columnist for WaPo, Newsweek and ABC News. The talking turd of the BFEE also was working for the Ronald Pruneface Reagan and Poppy Bush campaign in 1980. The guy would write a piece or say some crack on TV and the people actually thought he was coming up with it himself. Funny thing. He was repeating what he had been paid to say. What's worse, Will and the Raygun-Poppy campaign stole Carter's debate book. Of course, Will, being a good Republican wasn't really punished professionally. He's stil around, whoring.



Triumph of (George) Will: When Media Might Makes Right

By Norman Solomon
March 8, 2001

A skeleton is rattling in George Will's closet. But it's difficult to hear above the steady applause from his elite boosters inside the media business. Widely viewed as one of the nation's most influential journalists, Will churns out syndicated columns that appear in hundreds of daily papers. He also writes for Newsweek. And he's a regular on ABC's "This Week." He is definitely outspoken -- but don't expect him to speak out about the fact that Juanita Yvette Lozano now faces up to 15 years in prison.

"A woman who worked for a media company that produced ads for President George W. Bush's campaign was indicted for secretly mailing a videotape of Bush practicing for a debate to Vice President Al Gore's campaign," an Associated Press story explained the other day. Accompanying the 60-minute video were about 120 pages of the Bush team's confidential material for debate preparation.

Ordinarily, such a transgression might cause Will to express his law-and-order zeal in no uncertain terms. But it's understandable that he isn't eager to weigh in when the subject is theft of debate prep documents. The circumstances of the incident last fall were far less egregious than what happened -- with Will's active participation -- in 1980.

Six months ago, when Gore campaign adviser Tom Downey received a package containing the Bush campaign material prior to the first debate, he immediately turned it over to the FBI. In sharp contrast, 20 years earlier, top operatives in Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign pored through Jimmy Carter's lengthy briefing book swiped from the White House. Back then, behind the scenes, Will was part of the effort to make the most of the illegally obtained papers.

Will looked at the Carter briefing materials and then helped coach Reagan for a crucial debate with Carter. Promptly after the debate, Will went on "Nightline" to praise Reagan for a "thoroughbred performance." Viewers had no way to know of Will's involvement in prepping Reagan for the debate.

CONTINUED...

http://fair.org/media-beat-column/triumph-of-george-will-when-media-might-makes-right/



He is a slimy bastard -- spherical, too.

MinM

(2,650 posts)
101. George Will is a political apparatchik
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 09:29 AM
Aug 2014

He's been a bad actor in the media and behind the scenes for years ..

...McCloy asked President Carter to allow the Shah to live in the United States. Carter refused because he had told by his diplomats in Iran that such a decision might encourage the embassy being stormed by mobs. As a result McCloy made preparations for the Shah to stay in the Bahamas. David Rockefeller arranged for his personal assistant at Chase Manhattan, Joseph V. Reed, to manage the Shah's finances.

Rockefeller also established the highly secret, Project Alpha. The main objective was to persuade Carter to provide a safe haven for Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (code-named "Eagle&quot . McCloy, Rockefeller and Kissinger were referred to as the "Triumvirate". Rockefeller used money from Chase Manhattan Bank to pay employees of Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy who worked on the project. Some of this money was used to persuade academics to write articles defending the record of Pahlavi. For example, George Lenczowski, professor emeritus at the University of California, was paid $40,000 to write a book with the "intention to answer the shah's critics".

Kissinger telephoned Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Security Advisor to Carter, on 7th April, 1979, and berated the president for his emphasis on human rights, which he considered to be "amateurish" and "naive". Brzezinski suggested he talked directly to Jimmy Carter. Kissinger called Carter and arranged for him to meet David Rockefeller, two days later. Gerald Ford also contacted Carter and urged him to "stand by our friends".

McCloy, Rockefeller and Kissinger arranged for conservative journalists to mount an attack on Carter over this issue. [font color=darkred]On 19th April, George F. Will wrote about Carter and the Shah and said;[/font] [font color=blue]"It is sad that an Administration that knows so much about morality has so little dignity."[/font]

On 19th April, Rosalynn Carter wrote in her diary: "We can't get away from Iran. Many people - Kissinger, David Rockefeller, Howard Baker, John McCloy, Gerald Ford - all are after Jimmy to bring the shah to the United States, but Jimmy says it's been too long, and anti-American and anti-shah sentiments have escalated so that he doesn't want to. Jimmy said he explained to all of them that the Iranians might kidnap our Americans who are still there." ...

http://spartacus-educational.com/USAmccloyJ.htm

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10025293372#post58

Of course we now know that not only did these right-wingers instigate the hostage taking in Iran but they prolonged it until Carter was voted out and Reagan was sworn in.
 

jonjensen

(168 posts)
71. This is why I vote democrat
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:53 PM
Aug 2014

He who wants all gets nothing. I know this elisabeth warren knows this. Gore would have been better then bush! Let the republicans look for heretics we will invite everyone to democrat partys big tent.

 

jonjensen

(168 posts)
72. Don't forget obj had a tape recording of nixons treason
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 09:57 PM
Aug 2014

Lbj played a tape recording to sen minority leader everett dirksen Of nixon discussing his treason and told dirksen to tell nixon to stop with the treason!

Lint Head

(15,064 posts)
76. This is standard operating procedure. President commits crimes and he dies before anyone knows
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 10:36 PM
Aug 2014

a crime was committed. Obfuscate and keep secrets.

indepat

(20,899 posts)
81. So we have a 1968 surprise to add to the Gipper's October 1980 surprise. How quaint. Is there
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:54 PM
Aug 2014

any doubt in any rational person's mind that Republicans will do absolutely anything to seize the levers of power of government? Doubters are living in la-la land imo.

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