The Middle East Is Deep In Denial Over Where ISIS Came From

[applegrove]

The Middle East Is Deep In Denial Over Where ISIS Came From

by Hussein Ibish at Business Insider

http://www.businessinsider.com/hussein-ibish-middle-east-denial-over-isis-2014-8

"SNIP...........................


One of the most alarming features of Arab responses to the rise of the Islamic State (IS) in Syria and Iraq is a persistent pattern of neurotic denial in the form of conspiracy theories and other escapist fantasies.

But running away from the truth will only complicate the ability of Arab states and societies to comprehend where the IS (or ISIS) came from, how it has unexpectedly managed to surge into so much power so quickly, and how it can be effectively countered.

One of the most persistent and widespread delusions is that the IS did not, in fact, emerge from Sunni Muslim communities in Iraq and Syria over the course of the wars there in the past decade.

Instead, it is increasingly asserted, the IS is a creature of, and was established by, intelligence services such as the CIA or the Israeli Mossad. An extraordinarily large number of Arabs, Muslims and others appear to have taken refuge in these conspiracy theories. Call it Baghdadi Denial Syndrome.



.............................SNIP"

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Well, given that we funded the sunni side in the civil war in syria

the fact is that IS is partially a creation, intended or not, of our foreign policy apparatus. Seeing as how the exact same sort of disaster emerged from our funding of sunni jihadist militants in Afghanistan in the 80's, it is really hard to imagine that we were so colossally stupid as to not understand that this sort of blowback was going to occur again. Then again, perhaps we are that stupid.

[cpwm17]

4. And the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia was largely the US's fault.

Nixon devastated Cambodia with genocidal bombings, causing indiscriminate slaughter and a famine.

In the anarchy that followed, the crazies with guns took over. That's common pattern. The public had little power to stop them.

[former9thward]

8. The Khmer Rouge were around a long time before Nixon.

And no historian has cited any famine during the period. The KR were successful because of arms from China and the invasion in 1970 by the North Vietnamese army which gave about 1/3 of the country to the KR. The KR were allied with Prince Sihanouk during this time and got public support because people thought they were fighting against Lon Nol and restoring Sihanouk to the throne.

Both the Carter and Reagan administrations gave financial aid to the KR after they were tossed from power in 1979.

[Igel]

7. "Imagine."

"Given that Obama funded the Sunni jihadist militatns in Afghanistan in the '80s, is it really hard to imagine that Obama and his supporters were so colossally stupid as to not understand that this sort of blowback was going to occur again."

That's what you have to mean, because there's not much commonality between the "we" from the mid'80s and now. That's 30 years. The decision-makers back then were in their 50s and 60s. Now they'd be in their 80s and 90s. Not many generals that age still calling the shots.

Different politicians running things, too. Many of them--like the generals--understood what happened. And for this reason drew distinctions and had long arguments over who to fund in Syria and who to train and arm. And the more extreme militants didn't make the cut.

Now, in a sense we "armed" the IS because they captured a lot of US military equipment bequeathed to and given to the Iraqis. They may have captured some of the pittance of equipment "we"--the Obama administration and the chain of command headed by CiC Obama--to more moderate Sunnis. This, however, is different from "funding sunni jihadist militants." In fact, it was the fear of such funding and the very public discussion about that fear and threat that hamstrung the rebels fighting Assad early on. It was providing some arms and training to the moderate Sunnis, however, that opened the floodgates for "legitimate" aid to other, less moderate groups.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. Sure if you assume zero institutional history you might have a point. I don't.

Because an assumption of zero institutional history is ridiculous.

"In a sense" we armed ISIS? Seriously? We armed and trained sunni militants operating in Syria. We supposedly vetted them to make sure they were the "good" sunni militants and not the "bad" ones. Suddenly the anti-Assad forces in Syria were dominated by "bad" sunni militants and very well trained and armed sunni militants directly allied with those same "bad" sunni militants took over the sunni regions of Iraq.

"In a sense" we totally fucked this goat. Again.

[TwilightGardener]

2. Well, wherever they came from, they've certainly been useful for somebody.

(cough cough Sunni countries cough cough) For a while anyway--kind of outgrowing their usefulness now. But here's the real question: If they're so well-organized/funded and ruthless, so determined to be a caliphate, how come Assad is still in power? They've been in Syria for years now, a badly crippled Syria even with Russian/Iranian help, but it only took them WEEKS to overrun Iraq, even the Kurds?

[Comrade Grumpy]

6. Assad's army actually fights. It is very motivated. Unlike the Iraqi army.

Plus, I think ISIS is trying to consolidate their zone of control in northeast Syria.

[ausboy]

10. and dont forget...

Assad still has a lot of support. The Iraqi government less so given the Sunnis and kurds

[CJCRANE]

3. They're not the only ones in denial.

I'm sure we'll find out the truth one day when it's too late to make a difference.

Right now we have to go along with the neocon narrative even though we know they lied to us before.

[arcane1]

5. Business Insider seems awfully condescending about this.

Some of the words used therein:

Neurotic
Escapist
Fantasies
Delusions
Conspiracy theories
Syndrome
Self-parody


This kind of loaded language makes the article seem less credible, almost defensive.

[jakeXT]

11. Senior Qaeda figure in Iraq a myth: U.S. military (2007)

Last edited Thu Aug 14, 2014, 02:22 AM - Edit history (1)

(Reuters) - A senior operative for al Qaeda in Iraq who was caught this month has told his U.S. military interrogators a prominent al Qaeda-led group is just a front and its leader fictitious, a military spokesman said on Wednesday.

Brigadier-General Kevin Bergner told a news conference that Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, leader of the self-styled Islamic State of Iraq, which was purportedly set up last year, did not exist.

The Islamic State of Iraq was established to try to put an Iraqi face on what is a foreign-driven network, Bergner said. The name Baghdadi means the person hails from the Iraqi capital.

Bergner said the information came from an operative called Khalid al-Mashadani who was caught on July 4 and who he said was an intermediary to Osama bin Laden.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/07/18/us-iraq-qaeda-idUSL1820065720070718?rpc=92

[jakeXT]

12. Saudi returning from Syria complains about lack of locals (Syrians & Iraqis) for the jihad