"When the cops give you an order, it's like your drill sergeant giving you an order.

[underpants]

Last edited Thu Aug 14, 2014, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Full context so it's not, you know, "taken out of context"

When the cops give you an order, it's like your drill sergeant giving you an order. "Right now" doesn't mean in 30 seconds. We've got tense circumstances, heightened awareness on the part of everybody and everything, and the cops know the journalists are not on their side. The cops know the journalists are looking to make them look bad. So you talk about trying to keep everything in perspective, there's that aspect of this as well.

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[WestCoastLib]

1. I don't have a drill sergeant

I didn't join the military, nor have I been drafted. I don't need to respond to anybody "as if they are my drill sergeant".

[reflection]

22. Damn skippy. n/t

[hifiguy]

2. The difference being that a drill sergeant

cannot kill a trainee and do so scot-free of consequences other than "administrative leave"

[hobbit709]

3. I've never obeyed illegal orders.

[Live and Learn]

4. Big difference. The drill sergeant is your boss.

The police supposedly work for us.

[Bonx]

5. It depends on the order.

"Give me your camera !" = No.
"Get out of the way of the emergency vehicle about to crush you !" = Right away.

[RandiFan1290]

6. Drug-addled gasbag. nt

[underpants]

15. Yes

The draft dodger references the military to really say DO AS YOU ARE TOLD!

Nice pickup RandiFan

[MohRokTah]

7. That statement right there confirms everything nasty about the militarization of the police.

They believe they are in a war zone, not a community.

[underpants]

30. I posted this because it is the basic theme from the powers that be

This particular bit is from Rush Limbaugh

[Autumn]

8. How many people other than the military have drill sergeants?

And if a cop wants to be a drill Sergent he should enlist and get the fuck off the police force which at one time was here to defend and protect our citizens. The ones walking down the street minding their own business.

Fuck that shit, I don't have a drill sergeant.

[Skidmore]

9. A private citizen is just that...a private citizen.

With rights. We are not members of the military.

[Codeine]

10. I don't recall enlisting.

I'm a naturally cooperative guy, so my instinct is to do what a cop asks, but they aren't my drill sergeants, and there is a limit to my patience. I am neither slave not serf, and I'm certainly not a private in boot camp.

[upaloopa]

11. My drill sergeants were there to train me.

Police have a lot of different motivations. They have authority but what they do with it is not always lawful, just or the right thing to do.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. did we all sign up to be in the military suddenly? if a cop asks to search my person

i get to ask, WHY, because unlike the drill sergeant I am not actually in the military and the cop is paid from my salary not vice versa.

[SammyWinstonJack]

13. Where did this come from? TIA.

[underpants]

16. -

Rush Limbaugh

[pinboy3niner]

24. Thanks

That explains it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. Yeah...figures.

[sarge43]

56. Oh right. That career noncom and expert on all things martial.

I was a recruit wrangler and I never shot any eager young space cadet in the back.

[hlthe2b]

14. If he orders you to do something illegal, hurt another, or even hurt yourself, would you do it?

Hell no.

I am respectful to police officers and endeavor to follow their requests, but that does not mean I will not speak out politely if what they are saying is untrue, unlawful, or just plain wrong.

[tkmorris]

17. There is so much left out here

Why you made it a poll I have no idea.

The VAST majority of "orders" police officers give out are unnecessary. For example, ordering people to not take video or pictures.

I was in the Navy, so I didn't have a Drill Sergeant, but if my Company Commander had ordered us to wash his truck or to post up at a closed door while he had a one-on-one with a female recruit (and do ignore the screams) you might have a point. Or let's just say he routinely gave orders that were malicious, malevolent, or otherwise served only to reinforce his ego. That would have been a serious problem. Fortunately the Navy went to great pains to ensure that such things did NOT happen, and held those given that kind of authority to a much higher standard than everyone else.

I only wish the Police did the same.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

33. I actually like the poll.

It shows just how few people agree with that particular Limbaugh talking point.

[underpants]

35. Great post

The reason I made this a poll is to point out the overwhelming message coming from the powers that be and especially from the RW Media. This is a direct transcript from Rush Limbaugh today.

[justiceischeap]

18. I was never in the military, so I've never had a drill sergeant.

and I don't take kindly to be told I can't have my Constitutional rights because some jackass has decided to be a bully.

[sabrina 1]

19. Any order that violates the Constitution should not be followed. To do so legitimizes what is

illegal. If someone feels threatened by those giving the order, then it might be best to comply, temporarily, so they can later report the violation to the appropriate authorities, if there ARE any. In a Democracy of course there should be. We are waiting now to find out whether there are authorities who can find and prosecute the unnamed 'cop' dressed in military garb who violated the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. Hopefully that person will be removed from whatever entity he belongs to, Mercenary? Cop? He was not wearing a badge so who knows?

The police work for and are paid for by the people. THAT is who they are answerable to, not the other way around.

[gollygee]

20. Most people have never been to boot camp

and haven't learned to respond to someone that immediately. They don't deserve to get shot because of that.

[kentuck]

21. And if they say, "Stand on your head..."

...then you had better try or he has every right to arrest or shoot you? But only to shoot you if you resist arrest? That's what it sounds like.

[pinboy3niner]

23. Unless they call me 'maggot' and ask if I miss my Mommy it's just not the same

[underpants]

26. No

It just isn't

[sarge43]

57. Or have you demostrate for the enlightenment of the other recruits

the difference between your ass and a hole in the ground.

[Brigid]

60. And we have our thread winner.

Agreed, it's not the same.

[aikoaiko]

25. Pretty much how I deal the police. Time enough to lodge a complaint if needed.

If the order is lawful, then I'll comply.

[deminks]

27. I don't have a drill sargent, and I don't call anyone 'sir'

except to an elder as a sign of deep respect. If anyone barks at me, I am liable to ask them calm down.

[sarisataka]

28. A DI or DS is in a position of authority

in a well defined hierarchy. The orders given have the weight of that authority yet even then it was my duty to ascertain the lawfulness of the order and if unlawful my duty is to disobey the order.

Police have the authority to enforce the laws of the community. Technically we all do as well but in practical use leave it to the police. A police officer has the ability to require citizens to comply with the laws and restrict or require some actions to allow proper enforcement of those laws. This is a very limited authority and the police have no authority to order fellow citizens to do anything not directly related to the above.

In other words, if you are eating in a restaurant, the management has not asked you to leave, you can legally tell the cop to pound sand as long as the restaurant is not a crime scene. Such order coming from a superior rank in the military would be valid and thus required to be obeyed.

[herding cats]

29. A lawful order should be obeyed, an unlawful one shouldn't

It's as simple as that.

[MadrasT]

31. LOL, no. n/t

[arcane1]

32. And if they twist your arm and it hurts, don't wince. That's "resistance" n/t

[DefenseLawyer]

36. I missed the part of "Full Metal Jacket" where the drill sergeant kills the sub-par recruits

This entire statement is so messed up on so many levels. The authoritarian mindset of so many people just astounds me.

[Lex]

37. I'm not in the fucking army. I'm a US citizen.

And the journalists did NOT have leave McDonald's at the order of a hyped up asshole playing army.

[Cleita]

38. If a soldier disobeyed the order, would the drill sergeant shoot him?

I don't think so. He would be punished but not killed.

[kentuck]

49. Good point Cleita!

But we are not soldiers. We are the enemy, to be subdued and ordered about at the behest of authority.

[Inkfreak]

39. "The cops know the journalists are looking to make them look bad."

They're doing a good job all by their lonesome.

[TheKentuckian]

40. Are you shitting me? If I wanted one of those I'd have said yes to the thousands of requests

from the recruiters in the day.

[Iggo]

41. There's no part of my life where I take orders.

[derby378]

42. Now do you see where open carry might have some utility once in a while?

Abusive cops don't like it when they have to regard civilians as equals. And I'm an egalitarian kind of guy.

[tblue37]

43. Maybe you should enclose the comment in quotation marks--for clarity. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. I don't like the construction of your question

But if you're unarmed and the cop is it makes sense to follow his or her orders. There will be time to dispute whether the orders are justified later.

[cui bono]

45. Negative.

We have constitutional rights in this country (supposedly) and we do NOT have to do anything the cops order us to do. Many times they order us to do things that they have no right to.

However, if you are a person of color behavior modification might be advised as you run the risk of being murdered if you don't comply. Or even if you do.

Sounds like you are defending cops trying to shut up journalists? Because the journalists are specifically there to make cops look bad? Um, no. The cops don't need the journalists to make them look bad. The journalists are there to report what is happening. If they cops look bad it's because they are bad cops.

[underpants]

47. No not my quote

Rush Limbaugh today. So basically THAT is the right' stake on this. Do as you are told.

[cui bono]

50. Okay, that explains why it took a few reads to even get the point of the OP.

Heh.

[haele]

46. Police are not drill sergants. They aren't hired to "educate" us to survive war as an unit.

The job of the police is not to indoctrinate the public, or to intimidate, or anything else. The job of the police is to maintain the peace fairly for everyone and, when necessary, be the active representative or "arm" of the law. The Constitutionally ratified, agreed upon, Secular law that applies to everyone, not just some laws or "cultural practices" assumed by a majority, nor "the law" as imagined by people who get themselves into a position of power.
Police should not be para-military; that's what locally accredited militias or the National Guard are supposed to be - and even then, there are strict laws when it comes to military action. Most community SWAT teams would not be in compliance with the UCMJ, which is "the law" when it comes to military activity. And even the military is supposed to act in subordination to civilian law.

This confusion of actual job requirements for community policing has gone on way too long.

Haele

[HuckleB]

48. Cops giving an order to people who fear them.

Think about that.

Think about the reality of the panic response, the fight or flight response. Cops who are not trained to understand the fear they put into some portions of the public are a danger to that public.

[Salviati]

51. If you are not doing anything illegal, then the cops have no business giving you orders.

They may surely make requests of you, but you should not be compelled to follow their every whim.

If the cops are so worried about journalists making them look bad, then perhaps they should stop doing things that look bad.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

52. No

Drill seargents don't kill you for not reaponding fast enough or perciieved sleights.

[liberal N proud]

53. Never had a drill sergeant

So I don't know what my opinion would be.

And taking orders is conditional.

[Orsino]

54. Anyone with a gun, wearing a badge or not, has to be taken as a serious threat to life and limb.

Especially one displaying signs of possible panic, like a "right now!" shouted at an unarmed person.

[One_Life_To_Give]

55. People act like People

A kid straight out of boot camp will. Everyone else not so much. As a professional working with the public you need to recognize that people will do alot of seemingly strange things because, mind is elsewhere, they don't know better and a laundry list of other reasons. Empathy and understanding is a two way street, you need to give some to get some.

[WinkyDink]

58. WTH?! "Cops" are not the rulers of the land; they cannot "give orders" to the law-abiding citizenry.

[Rex]

59. Since when do drills kill you if you disobey orders?

Short answer is, the DON'T. Apples to oranges.

[jen63]

61. My son took the oath of office

on induction day at the US Naval Academy. That oath is to uphold the Constitution of the United States. Once his Plebe Summer was over, he was no longer at the mercy of his "detailers". Of course for the next three years, he has to do what the upper classmen advise him to do, but the oath in the military is to uphold the Constitution. If an order is illegal, he has the right to refuse that order. Even in the military.