Prosecutor: Couple Sexually Abused 2 Amish Sisters

[theHandpuppet]

Prosecutor: Couple Sexually Abused 2 Amish Sisters
CANTON, N.Y. — Aug 17, 2014, 6:39 AM ET
By GEORGE M. WALSH Associated Press

The northern New York couple charged in the kidnapping of two young Amish sisters were prowling for easy targets and sexually abused the girls before letting them go, authorities say.

The couple were arrested and arraigned Friday on charges of kidnapping with the intent to physically or sexually abuse the 7-year-old and 12-year-old sisters.

St. Lawrence County District Attorney Mary Rain said Saturday that the girls were sexually abused, and the county sheriff said Stephen Howells Jr. and Nicole Vaisey may have planned to abduct other children.

"We felt that there was the definite potential that there was going to be other victims," St. Lawrence County Sheriff Kevin Wells said....

MORE at link: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/official-amish-girls-sexually-abused-abduction-25006390

[MadrasT]

1. Initially I was relieved to hear the girls returned home so quickly.

I was afraid this might be the case.

We are very aware of this case in my neck of the woods (PA Amish country), this article was in the paper a couple days ago:

Amish roadside stand operators wary after 2 girls abducted in New York State

At farm stands on lazy country lanes and bustling highways, fair-haired, barefoot Amish girls were selling produce and baked goods as usual Friday, two days after the abduction of two Amish girls from an upstate New York roadside stand.

Some parents said that in the wake of the alarming crime, they were wrestling with how much to tell the children and whether they need to take more safety precautions.

"We're concerned, but how much can we do, really?" said Sam Fisher, whose small stand on Ronks Road is manned off and on by young daughters, especially on weekends.

Fisher said he mentioned the New York incident to the girls "without trying to be scary" and reminded them to be careful.

More at link: http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/amish-roadside-stand-operators-wary-after-girls-abducted-in-new/article_ed164628-24b5-11e4-8297-001a4bcf6878.html

It is awful when it happens to anybody, but targeting the Amish is the lowest of the low. The community is really wrestling with how much to tell the children. And of course things like this remind us here of the terrible tragedy at Nickel Mines.

[enlightenment]

2. If they actually abused the girls,

why were they arraigned on "intent to physically or sexually abuse"? Why not charge them with physical or sexual abuse?

[madokie]

3. Presumptions of innocence

don't worry they will be given their day in court and not many juries are sympathetic to pedophilia

[enlightenment]

4. I'm not worried about

what happens to them - I was confused about why the article and the linked video both stated that they had sexually abused the girls, but the legal charge levied against was only "intent" to abuse.

I don't think presumption of innocence has anything to do with the charges levied against someone. What prosecutors believe they can prove in court often makes a difference to how someone is charged - but even that doesn't explain the very big difference between doing a deed and intending to do a deed.

If you were to replace the charge of abuse with some other crime, it would sound very different and the dichotomy between deed and intent would be much more clear.

Example title of article: "Prosecutor: Couple murdered two girls"

Example sentence within article: "They were arraigned on charges of kidnapping and intent to murder" (note: not even "attempted murder&quot

I don't excuse these two and I sincerely hope they are convicted of the crime they commit. That said, I find it odd that the article presents two different concepts of the nature of the crime. I suspect that the woman, who has pretty clearly turned on her boyfriend, told the police that the reason the girls were taken was to victimize them physically and sexually - but that doesn't mean it happened. The word "intent" is light-years away from the commission of a crime.

I am concerned that we, as a nation, continue to uphold the law as we have designed it - and that design does not include the Fourth Estate. It bothers me to see this kind of sloppy reporting and it bothers me when I see people tried and often convicted by the press.

[justiceischeap]

5. They were arraigned immediately after arrest

It could be the charges will be amended now that they have more info.

[enlightenment]

7. Possibly.

That does not resolve the issue of the reports (written and video) stating that they "did" something that, to date, they have not been charged with doing.

[fishwax]

8. the "intent" is part of the kidnapping charge

It is "kidnapping with intent" rather than "kidnapping and intent." It is a form of aggravated kidnapping, and a more serious charge than simply kidnapping, under NY law.

[enlightenment]

9. I realized that I either added

the "and" or it was edited from what I read (most likely the former) initially.

It doesn't change the charge, however. Kidnapping with intent to do something to the victim is different than actually doing something to them.

If they sexually assaulted the girls, the charges should (or will be amended to) state that. At the moment, they have not been charged with sexual assault - only kidnapping with intent.

Perhaps I'm out of the loop completely, but it doesn't seem particularly rational to convict someone in the press for something that they may or may not have done.

If the DA amends the charges to include sexual assault then I will believe that they have sufficient evidence to suggest they can prove the charge. If the jury finds them guilty of sexual assault, I'll believe they sexually assaulted the girls. At the moment, however, I don't see a charge of sexual assault and find it over-the-top that they are being tried in the press and assumed to be guilty of the crime.

Kidnapping the girls is bad enough - and if they intended to sexually assault them, that does aggravate the kidnapping and should be allowed as evidence (and I sincerely hope they are put away for a long time). But it doesn't mean they actually assaulted them sexually.

That's the point I'm trying to make. The article states that they DID sexually assault the girls, but the charges do not indicate that they DID the deed. Intent and action are different and it is disturbing that they are being seen as the same thing.

[fishwax]

10. well, actual commission of sexual abuse isn't necessary for the

kidnapping with intent charge. All the prosecutor must prove is that they kidnapped them and intended to abuse them. So, taking your own guess as to what happened (that the woman was talking and admitting kidnapping and planning to abuse), then the charge fits perfectly. Proving it actually happened may be more difficult. and so as they gather more evidence such a charge may or may not be added.

As to the article, I think it makes it pretty clear that this is a claim by the prosecutor, rather than definitive information. (The same would be true/necessary even if a charge of sexual assault had been filed.)

[enlightenment]

13. I understand that about the

kidnapping with intent. Again (and finally, because this is getting silly, given that it is all based on a not very informative article) - my point is that the reports make a definitive statement about what the pair did, while the charges do not imply that they commit the crime.

Poor phrasing by the prosecutor.

Thank you for your thoughtful replies.

[pnwmom]

14. It is common for initial charges to be relatively minor and then strengthened

afterwards. All they need is enough for the indictment.

[LittleBlue]

6. Sick, monstrous people.

They'll regret this when the inmates learn they're child molesters.

[sub.theory]

12. Mandatory Death Penalty

The abuse of children demands the death penalty without mercy or exception. We should have special fast track courts to put these animals down ASAP. This absolutely sickens me. Those poor girls are going to be damaged for life from these monsters. Mandatory death penalty.