Why do we take the bait?

[kiva]

It doesn't matter if Michael Brown stole cigarillos or not. It doesn't matter if it was shoplifting or robbery. It doesn't matter if he grabbed the clerk by his shirt or this throat.

What matters is that AN UNARMED MAN WAS KILLED BY A POLICEMAN.

We liberals suck at staying on message, mostly because we see shades of gray where conservatives see black and white. Our message should be that AN UNARMED MAN WAS KILLED BY A POLICEMAN.

If anyone wants to talk about theft, say AN UNARMED MAN WAS KILLED BY A POLICEMAN.

If someone wants to talk about strong armed robbery, say AN UNARMED MAN WAS KILLED BY A POLICEMAN.

Do not argue about whether or not Michael Brown was a wonderful young man, a 'gentle giant', an aspiring college student because this is taking their bait. When someone says "Michael Brown", say AN UNARMED MAN WAS KILLED BY A POLICEMAN.

[elleng]

1. ABSOLUTELY!

Walking while Black!

[Iggo]

2. Darren Wilson murdered Mike Brown.

[socialist_n_TN]

3. Agree........

nm

[Michigander_Life]

4. That won't be the police story

And it won't be what the jury hears.

They'll hear all about how Wilson was trying to arrest Brown after a strong-armed robbery and Brown attacked Wilson. They'll hear that Brown beat Wilson in the face and tried to take his gun. They'll hear that Wilson was in fear for his life and started shooting. They'll hear that Brown attacked Wilson again and Wilson had no choice but to kill him. They'll hear Brown had drugs in his system. They'll hear about how huge Brown was.

Mark my words, this will NOT be an easy case. We are in for a year or more of heartache once Wilson is finally charged with the murder he committed.

This will be Trayvon part 2.

[rocktivity]

8. DING DING DING! Michigander_Life, you're our grand prize winner!

They'll hear that Brown attacked Wilson (twice) and Wilson had no choice...They'll hear Brown had drugs in his system. They'll hear about how huge Brown was...This will be Trayvon part 2.

I don't think that porn actress who was terribly beaten up should expect an open-and-shut case either. And for the same reason: She, like Brown and Trayvon, aren't "purely" innocent enough to be worthy of justice.


rocktivity

[tea and oranges]

14. Aargh!

Think you've got something there - to be a victim you must be innocent, pure, christlike. Therefore only wingnuts can be victims. Or maybe the converse: b/c they, Republicans, perceive themselves as victims, therefore they are pure?

Does this cult of victimhood require sacrifice of the human sort?

Oh make me STOP before I self-destruct trying to decode such criminal mind fuckery!

[Travis_0004]

21. MMA fightet named war machne beats somebody up. . .

I doubt that case goes to trial. If it does he doesnt stand a chance.

With Brown, the defense will try to portay Brown as being violent and perhaps likely to attack a police officer.

Being a porn star has nothing to do with that case, and being an MMA fighter will certainly work against war machine.

[rocktivity]

23. You have no romance in your soul

The MMA fighter (and a porn star in his own right) says went to his beloved's home (unannounced at 2AM) to surprise her with an engagement ring (though he'd dumped her and moved out three months earlier). What thanks does he get? She's with another man. Don't you know a crime of passion when you see one?


rocktivity

[Travis_0004]

26. I would argue that cheating is not as bad when you are a porn star

Its never acceptable to assult anybody, but I think if you are dating a porn star you wouldnt be quite as upset if you found your girlfriend was cheating on you.

[1StrongBlackMan]

67. Really ...

Don't you think porn stars (or any actors, for that matter) have intimate relationships? Doing one's job (in the case of porn, having sex in front of about 10-15 people, there to record the act) is in no way related to having sex outside of that job.

[AngryAmish]

24. They are both porn people

That case is easy. Put victim on stand. Say who beat you up. Identify perp. Put on doctor. Case over.

Ferguson much harder.

[cstanleytech]

68. Anyone with half a brain though should realize that excuse doest fly considering how

many times the kid was shoot.
Once or two ok it "might" be a legit argument of self defense but 6 times?
What I am thinking is it probably wast racial but it was either the cop got pissed at the kid and opened fire or they did get into a small fight and the cop panicked.
But hey I could even be wrong about all that as I wasnt there so I cant say for certain what happened all I can do is offer my opinion as insignificant as it is.

[BillZBubb]

10. Correct on all counts.

Plus, there will be a change of venue into a right wing white stronghold. No way the cop gets convicted, no matter what the evidence against him.

[FarPoint]

53. I don't see a conviction either...

Oh, make no mistake... It was an execution...but the inside maneuvering by the right wingers is well known...they will be will gerrymander and manipulate everything!

[Clyde Tenson]

13. Your right Michigander...

And they had time to scrub all traces of the executioner from the internet. But what's going to convict the sob is testimony from witnesses that matches up, plus the the number of entry wounds, where they are located and from what distance. (except for the distance of the gunfire, the number of entry wounds and their locations should be known by now)

[Curmudgeoness]

18. But that isn't the point.

The point is, whenever you hear anything about this, you remind them that THE POLICE SHOT DOWN AN UNARMED MAN. You may be right. You probably are right is history is any indicator. But the point is....don't buy into the right wing arguments, don't fall into a trap of arguing the virtues of Brown, just keep it on target. There was NO EXCUSE.

[kardonb]

20. that

you don't even want to hear or believe the police side of this incident ! There are always two sides of a story , always ! I cannot understand this sudden campaign to make police and law and order personnel the " bad guys " . These men risk their lives every day to protect law abiding citizens from criminals , looters , thieves , and punks that just want to prove how " tough " they are .

As to how long all, this affair will be dragged out : as long as the media feeding frenzy goes on , to fill their pages and airtime, and stir up more trouble .

[BklnDem75]

31. Interesting...

What side of the story makes shooting someone in the back ok? Four deaths within 10 days. Unarmed men killed by the police and you're still trying that 'risk their lives' crap?

[cantbeserious]

34. Simple - Law Enforcement Has One Function In America

To "Protect and Serve" the Oligarchs, Corporations and Banks.

[haydukelives]

41. AN UNARMED MAN WAS KILLED BY A POLICEMAN.

[tavalon]

48. Suddenly?

There are some great officers and there are many who are on a power binge and high as a kite on said binge. This is not suddenly, unless you mean, like, in the last 100 years. This, especially the murdering of blacks is not suddenly and sadly, it's not as rare as it should be.

We will make sure that this young man's name is in everyone's head just like Trayvon Martin, who was also murdered for walking while black. The jackass who killed him was just a police wannabe.

[CrispyQ]

55. A lot of people risk their lives on the job.

In fact, many, many occupations are significantly more dangerous than being a LEO.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/08/when-will-they-shoot/

An unarmed man, with his hands in the air, was gunned down in the street by a police officer. There is no excuse for that. None.

[heaven05]

56. oh please

BS!!!! This 'Peace officer" SHOT AND KILLED AN UNARMED(African-American) MAN!!!!. You don't want to acknowledge the truth. You want dictatorship? Get off the street, get on the sidewalk or I WILL KILL YOU! That's what you want. The peace officer did not know that Mr. Brown was a "criminal", "looter", "thief" or "punk". I feel sorry for you for being so afraid, every time you see a "criminal", "looter", "thief" or a "punk" with brown skin I presume by your answer?. Your media ploy/distraction, transparent and a failure.

[SomethingFishy]

64. Is it warm on Planet White Republican?

[hamsterjill]

65. I've never seen DU like this before.

Yes...I'm already prepared for the backlash that this post is going to get.

See, I've been posting the same thing. We have not heard the police officer's story yet. He hasn't even spoken, and yet he's already been condemned.

He may very well have murdered Michael Brown. I don't know. The current information points to that.

But I will be damned if I will condemn Wilson without even giving him an opportunity to tell his side. My comparison is Bowe Bergdahl. I refuse to condemn Bergdahl based on numerous "eye witness" accounts that say he deserted. I haven't heard Bergdahl's side of the story so I am waiting to form an opinion.

Therefore, I refuse to condemn Darren Wilson until I've heard his side. I am waiting to form an opinion.

Some people here think that's wrong. But to me...that's what democracy is.

The media frenzy has been almost unprecedented. Perhaps it is warranted, but in my opinion, it has reached the point of being provocative.

Regardless of what this post says...I'll merely be lambasted for saying Darren Wilson has rights, too. There are those on DU that don't want to hear anything that doesn't agree with THEIR opinions. Well, tough cookies. And oh, by the way, I've been here ten years.

[heaven05]

72. I've seen DUer's

excusing and pleading for the murderer on here during the zimmerman trial. I beg to differ. I see the same..............provocative is shooting someone six times in the body, missing twice and two of the six bullets in his head. One on the very top. Democracy and justice was not practiced in regard to Michael Brown. You can wait to form your opinion that's your right as an american citizen. Ask Michael Brown, if he could answer, what his opinion of 'peace officer' wilson is. What do you think the answer would be?

[hamsterjill]

75. But Darren Wilson, whether you like it or not, is entitled to democracy and justice, too.

Democracy and justice go both ways. That's the only way the system works.

I cannot do anything to help Michael Brown at this point. He is dead. No, I am not happy that a young man is dead. It's a very sad thing to me.

But I do not believe that Officer Wilson should be criminalized here on DU without having at least the opportunity to hear his side of the story. I've seen posts that call for him to be executed, posts that indicate that his mother had a past criminal record, reports on television that his friends are receiving death threats. Is that what you think should be happening?

As for me, I want a full and unbiased investigation. I want a trial if that's determined to be the right course of action. I want a jury to render a verdict, and I want that verdict to be just.

I do not understand why anyone would not feel the same way. I want to let the facts unfold and then make my mind up.

This is not the George Zimmerman trial. But in the same vein, if a trial is held and a jury votes in favor of Officer Wilson, would you ever be willing to accept that verdict? I doubt it.

[Blanks]

76. I agree with you. It's not right to allow anyone to be tried in the press...

It is tragic that we have young people shot down in the streets, but we romanticize the shooting and the car chases and the heroics of police officers on everything from 'Cops' (the TV show) to John McClain (Bruce Willis) in the 'Die Hard' movies.

When we have media that puts the cop that won't follow the rules on a pedestal - it's bound to attract the wrong folks.

It is like Bergdahl and in this instance it is liberals who are allowing the media to manipulate them. It is my hope that this will wake people up to the problem (much as Robin Williams death brought the seriousness of depression to the nations attention), but it should be about the victim and how this kind of thing happens too frequently to certain kinds of people and it shouldn't be about what kind of punishment is appropriate for the cop. After all - among the arguments against the death penalty is that it does not work as a deterrent.

We need to encourage cops to do the right thing - not threaten to kill them if they are ACCUSED of doing the wrong thing.

[sunnystarr]

77. In order for the process to work as you described ..

Wilson needs to be arrested and charged and get a trial going. The only reason we haven't heard his side of story is because the incident report is being withheld ... illegally since the FOYA requests have been ignored. If these things had been done then we wouldn't be watching protests and worse every day. Also, Wilson shouldn't be on a paid vacation right now.

[hamsterjill]

81. But wouldn't you rather the trial process be diligent?

If you're really interested in a fair process, wouldn't you rather that prosecutors build their case thoroughly rather than in a mad rush to appease the public? Don't you think that is what is happening?

[sunnystarr]

82. No i don't think that's what's happening at all

Arrest is made if there's probable cause. There's plenty of probable cause with the many eye witness accounts and the autopsy. He then gets out on bail and a court appearance is set for him to plead his expected "not guilty." Trials can take a year or more to happen. In that time both the prosecution and defense have plenty of time to build their cases. There's no question who shot Michael Brown.

If you shot someone and the police were on the scene right away, you'd better believe that you wouldn't be allowed to leave town instead of being arrested. You'd still have plenty of time to prepare your defense.

[hamsterjill]

83. Okay, so you tell me what you want to have happen.

I'm willing to listen. But I ask that you remember that it is the authorities' responsibility to see that Wilson's rights are protected.

So, within that context, how do you want them to proceed. Obviously, you want him arrested right now. Does he even get bail? Then what if someone kills him? What if someone harms his child in retaliation? Does he file for unemployment when he gets kicked off the police force? Do you want a change of venue? Are you willing to accept the jury that is seated? Or must it be an all Black jury?

And then will you be happy with the jury's verdict even if they find Wilson 'not guilty'?

You seem to have all the answers, so I am genuinely interested. That's not sarcasm either. Tell me what you think should happen, step by step.

[heaven05]

79. you're right

just like I did not, will not accept zimpig walking around a free man. Can't do a damn thing about it, but every breath he takes enrages me. You're right.

[HangOnKids]

73. Hooray on 10 years!

And that means exactly what?

[hamsterjill]

74. Thank you.

It's been ten GREAT years, too. I love DU!

The poster to whom I was replying (and essentially agreeing with) had a low post count. My comment was directed to that point.

[LibDemAlways]

28. In Fullerton Calif. in 2011 a homeless schizophrenic man

named Kelly Thomas was killed by several cops who were tried and acquitted. Juries are hesitant to convict cops, even when the evidence is overwhelming. I don't think this case, if it comes to trial, will be any different.

[kiva]

33. We can't do anything about what the police,

or the lawyers say, or what is presented in court. What we can do is refuse to even engage in this discussion about whether Michael Brown was a 'deserving' victim - AN UNARMED MAN WAS KILLED BY A POLICEMAN.

There's an expression, don't JADE; means don't Justify, Apologize, Defend, Explain. So when someone brings up Brown's size or the cigarillos or anything else, don't JADE, say AN UNARMED MAN WAS KILLED BY A POLICEMAN.

[enlightenment]

5. Exactly.

Nicely put.

[VanGoghRocks]

7. Bravo! (Brava!) There are two questions and two questions only:

1) Who shot and killed Michael Brown?
2) Was Michael Brown's death a 'justifiable homicide'?

Although my thread (dealing with question #1) is a couple days old now and has dropped down a bit (as well it should), please feel free to comment on it if you are so moved:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025390934

[Uncle Joe]

9. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kiva.

[rickyhall]

11. Exactly. I wonder what the late Jack Webb would think of all this?

I'm pretty sure what Gene Roddenberry, ex-LAPD Cop, would think.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

12. It's easy to not get distracted when it's a rerun....

I've been seeing this crap unfold the same way all my life.

Unarmed black guy shot by cops, white people freak out as if ALL blacks are gonna rise up and buy up more guns and ammo, the dead black guy is painted as a thug by the white cops to keep their fellow white people from feeling sorry for the black family. In the end, everything calms down until the next unarmed black guy dies and starts the cycle anew.

[ReRe]

15. Yeah...

... and it's been 8 days and the SOB is still running free. The Police Chief said he was "devastated." What's he so devastated about? That he knows his ass is grass? Must be. Because if he really had a conscience and was devastated about taking that young man's life, he would have turned himself in 8 days ago when he did it. He has no conscience.

[indivisibleman]

19. another good point.

We should feel so bad for this jerk because he is devastated!? His anger and hatred got the best of him. Did you hear what he allegedly said to Brown, "Get the fuck out of the road!" Jerk cop for sure. Then he backs up and says, "What did you say?!" I have encountered this type of police harassment a number of times. The guy is a bad cop and this time he went too far.

[ReRe]

29. Seriously!

"Model cop," my ass. If he was a "Model Cop," he damn sure wouldn't have killed that kid. Something was bugging him. Come upon two kids walking in an empty side street and explodes? Give me a break. If he had a swollen head, he got it somewhere else. Where was "Model cop" just before he came upon those boys? The Chief said he had been on an "ambulance run." You see?
This all needs to be investigated, starting last Saturday.

[ChiciB1]

38. But, But, But They Were Blocking Traffic

while crossing the street. Hey, don't your POWLICE always stop you when you cross the street?? A fiasco from the get-go and probably SOP for these militia men!

[onecaliberal]

42. All of the eye witnesses say there was zero traffic.

[indivisibleman]

16. The release of the video is important because

it shows how inept this police department is and how they will use tactics such as this in an attempt to disparage Michael Brown. They did the same sort of thing with Trayvon Martin. This attempt to disparage shines a light on what they did to Trayvon.
What happened in the store was unrelated to what happened to Brown but once they introduced the video it impacted Brown's reputation and how the public looks at the case.
I predict that the early release of the video and the subsequent absence of the cigarillos on Brown's person will figure quite prominently in the future court case against Darren Wilson and the Ferguson police department.
The only people taking the bait are people that want to justify this shooting of an innocent and unarmed man.

[etherealtruth]

17. I haven't taken the bait

The only I would say differently than you:AN UNARMED TEEN WAS KILLED BY A POLICEMAN.

[kiva]

22. I chose 'adult' rather than teen

to avoid the whole "But he was soooooo big, he looked older and more threatening" meme. Also, I tend to think of 'teens' as the 15 - 17 year old crowd, but that's me. However, say it the way it sounds best to you, but we need to say it.

[etherealtruth]

27. I agree not matter "how we say it"

... what is important is that we say it.

I have an 18 year old son ... not quite as big , but close.

Many guys at that age are impulsive and can be immature. I know first hand they can and do engage in "ass-hattery" ... which is no indication of who they are or the adult they will mature into (if given the chance).

An unarmed teen was shot (multiple times) and killed, by the Fergusen PD

[Logical]

25. I 100% agree! nt

[broadcaster75201]

30. Was a Prosecutor for 25 years and been making that point non-stop n/t

nt

[ChiciB1]

36. WASN'T Ever A Prosecutor, However I've Been

saying the very same thing. Right after Thom Hartman's show ended at 3:00 PM last Friday, I switched to listen to MSNBC and The Cycle was on. Ari Berman was chomping at the bit as that Captain was talking about the video and he made the point right then that it had NOTHING to do with the killing! He's a lawyer too. He seemed to be super upset that they would be trotting this crap out, and he usually doesn't get that animated. I may have his last name wrong, but his first name IS Ari. I can see his face now, but Berman doesn't sound right.

No matter, most here know who I'm talking about. I think he even said he thought what they were doing was grossly disgusting. I listen to FSTV through Hartman's show then generally switch to MSNBC. I don't have to watch per se, generally listen as I work, but did see him become pretty animated.

[Ms. Toad]

32. Because we ALWAYS let them define the rules. We need to stop.

The attempts to counter what is very clearly bad behavior by Brown (initially the "it isn't really Brown on the tapes" and today's "It was only an ID dispute - not a theft&quot only plays into their meme that some people are more worthy than others. We need to tell them that their meme is wrong.

All people are worthy. No one is perfect. Imperfections do not justify shooting an unarmed teen. (Or rape of a prostitute, or "seductively" dressed woman - or whatever victim blaming crap they always come up with.)

Instead of digging deeper holes trying to play by the rules they have set out, we need to start declaring the rules ourselves.

[yuiyoshida]

35. I agree

[Chimeradog]

37. agree completely~

Dumbed down corporate media always wants to DEMONIZE the victim.

In American media only billionaires are cared about by the shill corporate networks. Sickening.

I have never watched fox and stopped CNN in 08 after they sided with banksters and said to just "walk away and give your house to the bank)

F them, sorry but they make me utterly nauseated.

[maced666]

39. Both are truths

One obviously far outweighing the other. Not our job to educate those so dim 2 not know the difference

[onecaliberal]

40. If it had been Michael brown who shot the cop

we wouldn't be talking about all the incidences of brutality the cop committed. Michael brown wouldn't have been taken into custody not allowed to go home, gather his family and flee the city.
The only thing I want to know is why the cop shot the unarmed man 8 times, at least 2 of them in the back. Where I come from that is not only murder, it's execution.

[blkmusclmachine]

43. While we mourn, remember...40% of American voters are CHEERING

[Chimeradog]

44. horrible

That is just sickening and psychotic. I hope I never run into some of them irl.

[Cha]

45. Thank you for that, kiva.. and thankfully I see no one taking the bait here.

[MNBrewer]

46. Of course it matters

But not to whether he was murdered by a police officer.

It sure matters to the store owner.

[tavalon]

47. Very good and yes, we suck at staying on message

I never thought I would ever type this, but we could learn a thing or two from the Republicans about staying on message and broken record technique. We are too easily diverted.

An unarmed man was killed by a policeman.

[erpowers]

49. People Are Doing That

Many people at DU, and in Ferguson have been doing what you said to do. I am not sure I say anyone on TV take the bait. Most if not all the people interviewed in Ferguson immediately said, first, we do not know who is in that video. Second, even if it was Michael Brown, he was unarmed with his hands up when he was shot.

[fadedrose]

50. Whole thing is making me sick

I can't imagine how the people in that town feel, how hopeless and depressed.

And the parents . . . unimaginable pain.

The more that comes out, the more tragic it becomes...

You wonder how this cop passed the tests to become a law officer. New testing requirements are needed, more personality testing, and this cop needs to go to jail asap.

[TNNurse]

51. If Michael Brown had been arrested

Charged and convicted of robbery/theft without a weapon, HE WOULD NOT HAVE RECEIVED A DEATH SENTENCE.

[lillypaddle]

52. May I have your permission

to post this elsewhere?

[kiva]

57. Yes, feel free to do so.

[lillypaddle]

70. Thanks

Such a great message. I posted it on FB and on my acct at tumblr. Gave credit.

[Matrosov]

54. An unarmed AFRICAN AMERICAN was killed by a WHITE police officer

Don't be afraid to highlight the racial aspect of this as well. Just like with Travon, Michael Brown would have never been deemed suspicious by his shooter if he hadn't been African-American. ..And just like you can expect in the South, white police officers are covering for each other to defend their racist colleague.

If the races had been reversed, and an African American police officer had shot an unarmed white man, that police officer would've been thrown in jail five minutes later, and the department would've issued an apology to the family of the white victim.

[heaven05]

59. Thank You!!

You are right. I did edit my response. THAT is how I will respond. Thank you also, KIVA

[Blue_Tires]

58. Thanks for reminding everyone about the real point

I regularly tried to mention the same with the Trayvon case, (along with the fact that GZ never had any justification to even follow him), but had less success...

It's easy to get sort of sucked into the meaningless side details and minutiae...

[get the red out]

60. Yes!!!

It takes a pretty shitty police officer to not even be able to arrest an unarmed man without putting at least 6 bullets in him; if that was even what he was doing, the police can't even get that straight.

[Baitball Blogger]

61. Good posts.

If we can't sort through the stereotypes that bait people, how can we expect others to break through them?

[valerief]

62. We don't. Just because the media keeps repeating it doesn't mean we

believe it. Of course, teabaggers do, but not thinking people.

[certainot]

63. liberals are up against a much more superior messaging machine, aside from the grey vs

black white.

there are 400 racist talk radio shits on 1200 radio stations rationalizing away from AN UNARMED MAN WAS KILLED BY A POLICEMAN and until we liberals and our organizations stop ignoring and giving those radio stations and their think tank scripted bullshit a free speech free ride this event will unfortunately be as significant for racism and police militarization and brutality as newtown was for gun control.

[NoMoreRepugs]

66. Bingo certainot

it's just too easy for most 'Mericans' to let someone tell them what to think....

[SunSeeker]

69. Brown was shot to death WITH HIS HANDS UP.

He had bullet holes on the inside of his arm, consistent with Brown walking away or putting his hands up, according to the Brown family autopsy.

And when Brown started to fall from the initial shots, cop Darren Wilson kept firing, which presumably is how Wilson got the fatal shot through the top of the 6 ' 4" Brown's head. Wilson executed an unarmed man from a safe distance. There was no gun powder residue on Brown. It was murder.


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5687898

[Scootaloo]

71. because he's black, and Americans fall over themselves to justify killing black people

he stole something! he smoked the MJ! he had bad grades! he sassed his grandma once!

[IkeRepublican]

78. You want to talk bait...

I'm starting to get the feeling the RWM is behind all of this coverage as one of their last ditches to sway the Midterms since Congress is in the toilet with the people. One of the GOP's favorite lines is to "regain law and order", which is essentially to stir up Black Fatigue in the White communities.

Not to mention we all know how the RWM loves to take a covered story and pour in six tons of misinformation bullshit to make true and false virtually indistinguishable. Trouble is, a lot of my fellow Democrats are good at taking that very bait of misinformation because they're too focused on the "Finding Evil Whitey" instead of paying attention to the facts. When you're too focused on emotional fuel, you've taken the RW bait because that's the game they're in.

In other words, this is political calculus and let's not kid ourselves - the media wants a RW Congress this time around so bad they can taste it.

[Savannahmann]

80. If I may.

You've left out a rather important fact in your post.

If I may be so bold as to edit it to accurately reflect the information?

AN UNARMED BLACK MAN WAS KILLED BY A POLICEMAN WHILE SURRENDERING.

Thanks.