No gun powder residue found on Brown or in Police Officer's car

[IsItJustMe]

I just heard on CNN that the private Autopsy that the Brown family had performed on their Son showed that no gun powder residue was found on Brown or in the car of the police officer and that Brown was shot six times. Four times in the arm and twice in the head.'

This means that all six shots were fired at a distance.

[Dwayne Hicks]

1. Wow

So this means the the cop was lying about firing a shot from the front seat.

[bigdarryl]

2. I wouldn't put to much stock in CNN

[avebury]

9. How about New York Times?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0

One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.

Mr. Brown, 18, was also shot four times in the right arm, he said, adding that all the bullets were fired into his fron


The bullets did not appear to have been shot from very close range because no gunpowder was present on his body. However, that determination could change if it turns out that there is gunshot residue on Mr. Brown’s clothing, to which Dr. Baden did not have access.

[MADem]

10. They're also trying to play it that he was "charging" the officer and that's how he got hit

in the top of the head.

Of course, I don't know anyone who "charges" after they've been shot through the damn eye, do you? Seems to me like that shot through the eye dropped the kid, and the second one through the head killed him.

FERGUSON, Mo. — Michael Brown, the unarmed black teenager who was killed by a police officer, sparking protests around the nation, was shot at least six times, including twice in the head, a preliminary private autopsy performed on Sunday found.

....

“In my capacity as the forensic examiner for the New York State Police, I would say, ‘You’re not supposed to shoot so many times,’ ” said Dr. Baden, who retired from the state police in 2011. “Right now there is too little information to forensically reconstruct the shooting.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0

[billhicks76]

11. They Will Seek Alternative Explanations

They don't release all the information because they are constructing imaginary scenarios which could be precluded by facts. This way they can make anything up. If originally they said he charged looking them in the eye then they couldn't claim he had his head down charging later.

[mythology]

14. You do realize this is the autopsy done by a private medical examiner on the family's request right?

It's not the police or DOJ autopsy.

[MADem]

22. Yeah, but it's probably the one that led Holder to order a third, federal autopsy.

And you do realize this "private examiner" used to be the head mon frere in charge of New York? Not a piker job by any stretch--I'd listen to him if I were you. He's not talking out his ass, he has a reputation that stretches back DECADES and I doubt he'd trash it over a single case.

[billhicks76]

40. Duh!

The point I was making is that the hole in the top of his head could have two explanations. Because the police won't release information they have less of a chance of contradicting themselves.

[Ms. Toad]

19. They are not "playing it" that way - they are quoting the doctor the family retained

to perform the autopsy.

[MADem]

25. The wingnuts are JUMPING on that comment like it is proof of something, and not reading it

as the generic descriptor that it is.

That shot through the top of his head was the LAST shot, the ME said. The "other" head shot went straight through the teen's EYE.

I'd look down if shit started pouring out of my eye, too. I might well be on my knees at that point, if not prone.

That ME also had something to say about how many shots were fired, as well.

[Ms. Toad]

30. It is not the ME - it is the doctor retained by the family to do the autopsy.

The autopsy by the ME has not been released yet.

I was just responding to the assertion that the Times was "playing it" one way or another, when they are merely quoting from the doctor the family retained.

I doubt he had time to do anything between the eye shot and the top of the head shot. Without going back to check the exact wording, the suggestion was that both of those shots would have dropped him.

[MADem]

34. You do know who Michael Baden is, don't you?

He was the NYC ME and he is one of the foremost forensic pathologists in USA. Medical examiners CALL HIM--that's the level of his reputation.

I'm not talking about the TIMES "playing it"--I'm talking about all the wingnut sources jumping on that generic comment (See? See? It was in the TIMES, dude!!!!!) and shouting it out like it is "proof" of something. when all it is, is a comment, like "If it rains and you only have a newspaper to protect you, you might get wet. Your arm might get wet, your back might get wet, your head might get wet." That doesn't mean your head WILL get wet, but that's how some people are playing it.

[Live and Learn]

3. And they didn't have access to Brown's clothing, apparently. nt

[Ginger2]

47. why would both sides tell the same lie?

I guess that means Johnson lied too. He also said the officer was choking Brown, said "I'm going to shoot you" and then fired the gun, before Brown got away and they both ran.

[SwankyXomb]

4. Nothing found in the car isn't surprising

considering the Mystery Cop was allowed to drive it away from the scene.

[Ms. Toad]

5. Not exactly what it said.

From the NYT article, which quotes the doctor who performed the private autopsy:

“We need more information; for example, the police should be examining the automobile to see if there is gunshot residue in the police car,” he said.

The bullets did not appear to have been shot from very close range because no gunpowder was present on his body. However, that determination could change if it turns out that there is gunshot residue on Mr. Brown’s clothing, to which Dr. Baden did not have access.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html

So more of a "we don't know if there was gun powder residue" than "no gun powder residue was found."

[avebury]

8. Once the shooter was allowed to leave the scene WITH

the car, instead of having the car processed at the scene, they created chain of custody where andy evidence from the car is concerned. Like the shooter would be credible.

[Ms. Toad]

18. The autopsy doesn't address that.

I was merely correcting the statement that the autopsy said that there was no gunshot residue inside the car.

[Uncle Joe]

6. Does anyone know what kind of gun he was using?

Thanks for the thread, IsItJustMe.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

7. In other news: Chris Christie was cleared of any wrongdoing by his own investigation.

[mythology]

15. Incorrect

This is the autopsy done by the private medical examiner at the request of the family. So no it's not the police clearing themselves.

Which you would know if you had read the article.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

39. I was commenting on what was heard on CNN with no article.

[randome]

12. I wonder if Wilson shot him 'by accident' the first time, then made a quick calculation.

Panicking (not in a sympathetic way), he thought it might be best to kill Brown 'totally' so his first shot would not look like a dumb mistake and he could claim he had no choice.

Especially if that first shot hit Brown in the eye.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[justiceischeap]

16. If Dorian Johnson's eyewitness account is true, he heard the cop say "I'm going to shoot you"

before a shot was fired--so if that is a true account of what happened, the first shot was not accidental, it was premeditated.

[randome]

27. It could still have been accidental.

Say, he fired 'accidentally' immediately after saying "I'm going to shoot you!" Either way, I don't see how any of this can be spun to make Wilson not responsible for what happened.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[MohRokTah]

13. Murder in the first degree.

In Missouri, this carries a penalty of death or life in prison.

[pintobean]

17. This autopsy included the car?

That seems odd.

[Ms. Toad]

21. No, it did not.

As I noted above, based on what they learned from the body it appeared the shots were not at close range - BUT that might change based on additional information (including whether there was gunpowder residue in the car).

[pintobean]

24. Yeah, I saw that.

You seem to be on top of things and trying your best to explain them.

I was just being a smart-ass. Autopsies obviously don't include vehicles.

[Rex]

20. I think he unloaded his firearm with wild abandon, murdering that kid

right out in the middle of the street! No wonder the cop fled like a fucking cowardly dog!

[MohRokTah]

23. I don't think the private physician who performed this autopsy had access to the vehicle. eom

[MADem]

26. He didn't even have access to the teenager's clothes. I'll bet the federal ME won't have trouble

getting to see that stuff.

[MohRokTah]

28. True.

I will say, the shots to his arms and head should have shown gunpowder residue had he been shot at close range, so in that respect we do know the shots were not fired at close range.

[MADem]

31. Moreover, I don't know anyone who walks or "charges" doing the penguin stance, palms forward.

However, when you put your hands over your head, your palms ARE forward....it looks like young Mister Brown was shot in the THUMB as well.

[MohRokTah]

32. Now raise that arm and look at the tight shot pattern.

The cop was going for the head the entire time.

[MADem]

35. I think you have it. Especially the thumb.

I always thought they were trained to go for the area of largest mass, the torso--so this guy is either a "Kill 'em good" type or one hell of a bad shot with an itchy trigger finger.

[badtoworse]

41. That would surprise me. I believe cops are trained to shoot at the center of mass.

ETA: If Brown was head down and charging Wilson, the shot pattern could have been center of mass, especially if Brown's arms were close to his body.

[MohRokTah]

42. There's no way in hell Mr. Brown was charging the murderer. eom

[badtoworse]

43. ...and you know that how?

[MohRokTah]

44. Common sense.

It's the height of stupidity to even suggest such a thing.

Yeah, you're being shot at from 35 feet away so you turn around and charge the cop shooting at you.

4 eyewitnesses have all said, HE PUT HIS HANDS IN THE AIR AND SURRENDERED!

The ONLY place this bullshit story about charging is coming from is an unnamed caller to a rightwing radio talk show.

So pushing that bullshit is pushing a bullshit rightwing narrative.

[badtoworse]

45. I don't believe he was shot from 35 feet

Six rapid fire hits at 35 feet would be extremely difficult under those conditions.

[BronxBoy]

46. And because an apartment complex full of eyewitnesses...

say so. No one at that scene save for 1 unnamed source has asserted that

[Oilwellian]

36. I believe the thumb is an exit wound n/t

[MADem]

38. He was facing the policeman, supposedly.

How could that be an exit wound? Look at the drawing of him on his back--there'd be an ENTRY wound on his hand if that were the case.

Unless, of course, the Ferguson PD uses those magic bullets???

[riversedge]

29. NYTimes article says Indep autopsy folks did not have access to Brown's cloths...

Nothing mentioned about the car--that I recall (NYT)--but I may have missed it. I find that strange. Was the body washed after the initial County autopsy? Just curious.

[ReRe]

33. They will yap...

... out a bunch of info and some of it is not true. The part about no residue in the cruiser is unknown, as no investigation has begun. The CNN host or hostess (I'm too nice) is a bit excited with all this titillating news of police brutality. I hear wrong reporting all the time, and I never watch FOX.

[NM_Birder]

37. "I just heard on CNN" ....... means nothing to me.

Everyone is scrambling to be the first to "prove" something, right now is the best time to be sure not to make mistakes.

The news is no more reliable today than it has been for 10 years, best to wait and see. Some pretty critical "facts" have already been proven to be baloney.