Ferguson is Out of Control!

[MineralMan]

That much seems clear. The cops are out of control. Now the National Guard has been called in, adding more uniformed people to the mix and more firearms. It appears that people from outside of Ferguson are also coming into town to add to the problem by looting and other activities. That's what I'm seeing from interviews with townspeople.

If I lived there, what I'd be promoting among actual Ferguson residents is to stand down for the moment. I'd be very angry at the police actions and presence, for sure, but I'd be off the street for the time being, and I'd be encouraging everyone I know to stay off the street until all of those uniformed, armed people were gone.

That may seem contradictory to some, since the people in the street are completely justified in their protests of the situation. And it is contradictory, but the cycle that has developed is escalating. Clearly the uniformed, armed people are not going to stand down. Adding the NG to the mix is not going to result in less activity. Ferguson residents, however, can stand down. They can leave the streets at night and twilight to the out-of-towners who are doing more than just protesting. They can avoid the chance of being caught in the crossfire and survive to take this battle into elections and the court system.

That's what I'd do. I would still be pissed as hell at what has happened to my community, but I'd be standing down and trying to convince others to do the same for the time being. I might not succeed in that, but I'd sure try. One side in this confrontation is going to have to stand down. I don't have much confidence that it will be the side with the guns and the power. I'd want those people out of my community and that's the only way I can see to make that happen.

[Atman]

1. Best run-down I've heard so far has been from BBC this morning.

Of course, not American media.

The National Guard is actually the "militia" the Constitution speaks of, formed in the 18th century because the U.S. did not have the forces on a national level to protect each state. (You hear that, 2Aers? Go join the National Guard and quit this "open carry" and CCW nonsense which is actually helping to INCITE these instances). Anyway, the NG is rarely called out. And notice that is is almost always in regards to racial issues, Kent State not withstanding. Even Katrina boiled down to a racial issue as thousands of black citizens were force into squalid conditions, totally ignored by the government. So, calling in the National Guard is a last resort because to government officials it is an admission of failure. They couldn't do their job, so they need to call in the NG. Oddly enough (or probably no so oddly enough), they only seem to be called in to protect the citizens against the abuses of our own government. Hmmm. Food for thought.

Again, 2Aers...if you really believe the "militia" part of the amendment, go join the National Guard. Sure, you may get sent to war overseas, but you'll get free guns and lots of cool toys to play with. And a job on the police force when you complete your tour.

[MineralMan]

4. The NG does get used that way, for sure.

Most call-ups, though, are for natural disasters, really. Governors use the NG, though, when confrontations like the one in Ferguson are going on and don't seem to be resolving. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't work so well. It depends in large part on who is commanding the NG response.

Ferguson is a failure of law enforcement, plain and simple. Faced with a horrible failure on the part of one officer, the police are vainly attempting to pretend that that officer was "just doing his job." It won't wash. It shouldn't wash.

[Al Carroll]

2. There's more violence at a championship playoff

Most of the violence has come from cops dispersing protesters who have every right to protest. The looting and smashed store windows is less than you see after a playoff when crowds of drunks or rowdies trash the streets.

Most estimates of the crowds I've seen are 200 to 300. Sending in the guard is a ridiculous over reaction by a governor worried about being seen as weak. It's a reaction we've seen going all the way to Do the Right Thing, where property is seen as more valuable and needing more protection than the lives of minority people.

[Atman]

5. See my post above yours

Governors tend NOT to use the Guard, precisely because it makes them appear weak and ineffectual, and can't protect their own people.

[tkmorris]

3. What you describe is EXACTLY what the Ferguson PD et al wants

They want the Black community to sit down and shut up in the face of overwhelming firepower. It is precisely the attitude that led to Mike Brown being shot down in the first place.

[MineralMan]

6. Perhaps. At this point, however, the thing is

feeding itself. The long term answer is for the people of Ferguson to toss the entire city political leadership, and for the new leadership to toss the Police Department and create a completely new one. That's not going to happen this week, though. At this point, this will not end until the armed forces leave the area, and they're stuck in their own strategies.

[RobinA]

37. I'm Going To Disagree

here. The PD would like nothing better than a bunch of looting and burning, because it plays right into their hands. To them it justifies their actions and shows everybody watching that they were right all along to bring out the artillary and armour. It's like the police are trying to draw a penalty. It's them talking smack on the line of scrimmage to enrage the opposition. Every fire, every broken shop window feeds The Man in this case.

[longship]

7. Well, damn. I will be the first DURec.

If for no other reason than to promote reasoned discussion.

Thanks, MM. Your posts are always welcome and thought provoking, always a good thing.

[MineralMan]

11. Thanks. I appreciate your comment.

I'm afraid I'm still a believer in political solutions to problems of longstanding. I've not seen a conflict like this one resolved until the immediate face-to-face conflict ends. At that point, the discussion can begin, informed by what led to the original conflict. In the case of Ferguson, that original conflict has its origins in adversary-based, non-community policing. That's what has to change. That city deserves and should have a police force that is based on that community. That's a political issue, and there is no real mechanism to make that happen at the moment. That is going to take community organization and political action.

I'm not an appeasement advocate. I'm a political action advocate.

[longship]

15. Yup! I concur.

But I have a rather big problem with the "right to assemble" right of the First Amendment being suppressed. It's what we fought in the 60's and 70's. It appears it's something we need to continue to fight.

But a stand down may very well give an opportunity for that to happen. At least that argument deserves considerations.

My problem is that it gives a militarized police an argument that their tactics were somehow necessary.

One only hopes that protests would be peaceful.

[MineralMan]

19. Just temporarily. Just for the time it takes for

all of those out-of-town cops and others to get bored. Then, political organizing can take over and lead to the dumping of the current city government, followed by a complete restructuring of the police department there.

It's not a surrender. It's a strategic retreat and regroup action. That's what I'm recommending. Right now, the situation is one where feedback and resonance keeps it going. Time to shut down and reboot.

[Tsiyu]

8. We've told protesters to "go way and just shut up" forever

I realize you are offering advice on how to make the chaos go away, and not telling people to "go away and shut up" per se, but you have to understand how that appears.

All the nice people in America do not like conflict. They do not enjoy complicated social issues, they do not like seeing young people getting rowdy, they do not like feeling unsettled when they see anything other than orderly people doing ordinary things.

But locals hiding in their homes and not protesting only sends these signals: they are cowed. The heavy-handed "law enforcement" has won. Better to shut up and not make waves.

You say wait until the storm blows over. But this storm isn't going anywhere any time soon.

All human struggles for rights are messy, ugly and bloody. Without those struggles, we would still have slavery, we would still have children working 16 hour days, women would still not be allowed to vote.

Sitting home in fear never solved a single social issue.

I understand how many older people just want peace, want everyone to "make nice." But these problems in Ferguson were years in the making, and it will take as long to make things right.

[MineralMan]

9. As you say, I'm not telling anyone to go away and shut up.

I'm saying what I would do, which would be followed by serious community organizing, voter registration, and working toward some sort of replacement for whoever the heck is the government of that city. The bottom line is that the police and other authorities will prevail in this situation and the conflict will not end until the authorities decide it's over. That has also been the history of these things.

Serious change in Ferguson is needed. And the changes that are needed are not going to come about on the streets.

[Tsiyu]

16. Telling upset people to "stay home and hide"

is not going to cut it, MM.

The civil rights struggles were ugly, but in the end right won over might.

Rosa Parks did not stay home...she sat at the front of the bus despite the punishment and pain.

Asking people to sit at home and wait for the next black kid to be gunned down is unrealistic and callous.

Face the ugliness of state-sanctioned racism. Stop wishing it will just go away if people are silent and "good."

We all need to see the ugly. As unsettling as it is, a lot of comfortable people in this country will only wake up when they see the way cops really treat black people.

[MineralMan]

34. That's easy to say if you're not in Ferguson.

That's easy to say if you're not at risk along with your friends and neighbors. We don't need to see the ugly, because we're not the ones who will have to take control of their own city government and replace it with a better one. We're not the ones who will be there after the cops and NG are gone.

I'm not talking about going into hiding here. I'm talking about organizing and planning a strategy to gain control of a city.

None of that is going to happen until all of those armed people are gone. I'm about getting those forces out of town and letting the citizens of that town determine their own destiny. Strategy, not tactics. Right now the situation is all tactical. Right now, the cops and other armed people have the upper hand and are prevailing.

Start by giving them no reason to be there and then the people who live there can use political power to reconfigure Ferguson. Strategy, not tactics.

[Fred Sanders]

10. 12% minority voter participation rate in Ferguson, is the root of the problem. Painful to admit,

more and more are getting to understand that.

[MineralMan]

13. Sadly, that is the case in too many communities.

It enables the white minority to gain and retain control over the majority of the population, and that is at the core of the problem in Ferguson. The citizens of Ferguson desperately need to seize control of their own city government and end the current bias in city government. That will require Ferguson residents to use the power of the ballot box. If they do that, they will be able to elect a government that represents them, instead of the current one, which clearly does not.

That's going to require serious organization and voter activism. It certainly can be done, and that is the only solution that will work over the long haul.

[Fred Sanders]

21. Correction. 12% is the white rate the black rate is half that.

[MineralMan]

23. The results are the same either way.

The citizens of Ferguson need to register themselves to vote and then show up at the polling place for the next election. If there is a recall process in Missouri, they should take advantage of that, just as soon as they have registered the majority of black residents. Throw that city council out and elect a new, representative one. Then, the process of turning that police department into a community police department can take place. Until then, they have what they have.

Political action is the way this will have to happen. Without that, the status quo continues.

[VanGoghRocks]

12. I must respectfully disagree yet again. Would you have proffered the same advice

to the Freedom Riders in the summer of 1961? How about the marchers in Selma, AL? What about the Greensboro lunch-counter sitins?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins

I salute the Resistance in Ferguson. No stand-down until Wilson is arrested and charged!

I am recommending your thread for starting a good discussion, though. Hope to read more of your thoughts.

[MineralMan]

14. No, I would not. I was in Selma at the time.

I stood in the crowd and listened to Dr. King speak. Resistance is essential. Timing is also crucial. Right now, however, that resistance is not proving to be productive. Now is the time for organization and planning. Clearly the situation is screwed up badly. The solution will not be found with the current government and police force.

Retreat and reorganization is an effective strategy. It doesn't win battles, but helps win wars.

[VanGoghRocks]

17. I salute a brave American hero. (Your life and well-being were probably greatly

at risk in Selma, from what I've heard and read.)

Right now where things stand: an almost all-white municipal police force has been replaced by an almost all-white County police force by a white Governor who has now replaced the almost all-white County police force with a predominantly white MO. National Guard in a PREDOMINANTLY BLACK COMMUNITY! But the locals are supposed to stand down and retreat?

Speaking of Freedom Riders, I wish President Obama would cut to the chase and either a) federalize the MO Natl. Guard or b) send in the 82nd Airborne. At that point, I might recommend to the locals they follow your advice. Until then or Wilson's arrest, no stand-down. (It's oh-so-easy for me to put their lives and limbs at risk when my own ass isn't on the line. But that's what I'd recommend.)

Again, my salute to you for a glorious and illustrious past!

[MineralMan]

20. I was 19 years old in Selma, and

I was not in the forefront of what was going on there. I was a timid, frightened and uncertain visitor and observer. I went there with the intent of supporting the struggle, but my presence was the only support I could offer at the time. It was a life-changing thing, but I was too young and inexperienced to do more than watch from the background.

I was no hero. I was just there in the crowd. It was pretty overwhelming for this callow 19 year old. I learned from it. As Dr. King said that day, "How long? Not long."

[VanGoghRocks]

22. The first requirement of heroes (almost a pre-requisite) is that

they deny they are heroes. (At least, since the Iliad, anyway.)

That said, you got off your ass and went there, when most of the country watched on their B&W TV sets while eating their TV dinners. That's enough right there to earn you the Legion of Merit in my book.

And it gives your advice here some added gravitas, so DU should keep that in mind when reading this thread and the comments of firebrands like me!

[MineralMan]

24. I had just dropped out of college in California, and

was on one of those cross-country self-exploration journeys. I read the newspapers, and found out what was going on in Selma, and steered myself in that direction. I arrived just after the first attempt at crossing the Edmund Pettus bridge occurred. I stayed until I could hear Dr. King speak. He was the hero, as far as I am concerned. Those who were there beforehand were the heroes. I was a late arrival. I was a student of life and learned a great deal there. It took me some time to integrate that into my life and become more of an activist.

[wavesofeuphoria]

18. +1

[ReRe]

25. Wouldn't it be easier...

... if the officials of the county and/or state just do the right thing and arrest Wilson? I know what I would do. I would go home and stay there until they arrest that SOB.

But you know what? We don't know what the hell is going on on the front line. I don't know where you are, but all I see is the backside of about 500 commandos and the great big mess they are making with all those canisters and smoke bombs, etc., etc. We're only getting one side of the story.

What can we expect tonight with the Nat'l Guard? Will it be them plus the pigs?

[MineralMan]

28. I do not know what to expect tonight.

I expect that I'll find out, though. The potential for a very bad outcome is high, I'm afraid. My point is that the authorities are behaving poorly and inappropriately. That's unlikely to change, I believe, given the past few days. That's why I wrote this OP. I see no benefit from further tragedy coming from this. No benefit at all.

If the authorities are stupid, the population needs to be smart. That's the first step. Retreat and reqroup. That's a strategic move. Let the cops and the NG show up to find nobody there. A couple of nights like that and they'll stand down, too. There is no immediate solution. At this point, the cop who shot Michael Brown is not going to be charged until a Grand Jury rules. At this point, the Governor is not going to do other than call out the NG. At this point, other cop houses will be supplying more cops.

Bottom line is that the people with the arms are going to control the situation in the only way they can comprehend. The solution is for there not to be any situation to control. Time to organize. Time to plan. Time to find a way to correct the non-representative government in that city.

I do not want further tragedy to be the result. That is all.

[ReRe]

38. All I know is i have to get some sleep todday!

Because I want to be up tonight. I haven't seen the Nat'l Guard yet. And don't you know, the media will be front row center to greet them when they march in.

I don't know how long you've been around this earth, but I remember some history about Gov. George Wallace down in AL when he didn't want to desegregate the Univ of AL. George Wallace stood in the doorway to prevent the 6-7 black freshmen from entering. Now, I may getting it all backwards? Anyway, they sent the Nat'l Guard down there and everything straightened up real quick. And as far as I know, they didn't point their guns at no one. Everything got real peaceful and nice.

I was thinking the same thing... that the protesters should all just stay home for a couple nights and let the commandos look like what they are... a bunch of idiots.

[kath]

33. From posts in another thread, sounds like the goddam pigs will still be there, along with the NG.

[ReRe]

39. Well, then...

... the protesters need to just stay home, and if they do go, leave the kids at home!

[lpbk2713]

26. Well, that's it then.

Pack up and move out.

[Oilwellian]

27. Yes, and...

while the people are in their homes, the police can deliver their milk.

[MineralMan]

29. You know, I'm not really about slogans and photos like that.

I'm about strategy. I think it's time to turn this from a tactical situation to a strategic situation. But, you're welcome to present your slogans. Neither of us is in Ferguson.

[Autumn]

31. I can only say this guy looks like he's just itching to deliver

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025397873 well, looks like he want to deliver something.


Yeah stay at home, just like we stayed home during Vietnam, like we stayed home in Selma and Washington.

[MineralMan]

35. Indeed. He does. I'm not in favor of the people of

Ferguson being in his sights. Truly, I am not.

[KittyWampus]

30. Residents don't need to "stand down". But they can meet in Town Hall or Schools.

[MineralMan]

32. An excellent idea. However, right now such assemblies

are likely to be seen by the powers that be as threatening. I believe that ending the growing police and authoritarian presence in Ferguson needs to be the first step, and I don't believe that that is on the minds of the cops and others right now.

Right now, I'd like to see people meeting in homes in small groups to discuss strategy. Once the armed forces are gone, the community meetings in churches and schools can take place without a horde of people carrying weapons responding to the gatherings.

Strategy needs to be planned and the growing army of cops and others needs to leave. Then, Ferguson needs to take back its city from the white minority there. That's a strategic move that will require political activism and organization. It's not going to happen overnight.

[MineralMan]

36. Here is Missouri's Recall Process:

Laws governing recall in Missouri
Missourians do not have the right of statewide recall. However, the right of local recall is available in:
Cities defined as Class 3 cities. A Class 3 City is defined as a city with a population between 3,000 and 29,999.
Cities that operate under their own city charter, if the specific city charter allows for recall.
The recall process that applies to Class 3 cities in Missouri is governed by MRS §77.650 and 78.260.
Generally:
Recall may not commence during first 6 months in office
Grounds for recall must be stated, and must include misconduct in office, incompetence, and failure to perform duties prescribed by law.
60 days is allowed for collecting signatures.
Signatures equal to 25% of the registered voters in the city must be collected.

Ferguson appears to be a Class 3 City. So, a recall is possible.

First step would be to make sure a high percentage of black residents are registered to vote. Then, a recall of the City Council there would be almost a certainty.

This is what I'd be working on if I lived in Ferguson, starting today.