I just gotta rant about exploitation of poor people and their pets

[ellenrr]

I am a low-income senior, existing on social security.
After a long struggle I have decided to have my cat put down bec. I cannot afford the thousands it would cost to find out what's wrong and there are so many things wrong, that I don't think she can recover.
So last week I spent $100 at the vet, which for me is a lot of money.
Now - in order to have her put to death - they want $178.00!

I realize that depending on your financials that probably doesn't seem as much as it does to me. I'm thinking, it would not be much over the cost of an office visit. ($60.)

but to me it is a huge amount. and for what? to kill my cat. And what choice do I have? Kill my cat myself? Let her die by inches?

If I can, I'll have them bill me, and pay it out. But I have a feeling, that for this kind of procedure, they may want it all up front. Bec. they probably have been stiffed before. And well they should be. I'd stiff them if I could!

[Cal Carpenter]

1. You could try contacting your local humane society

if there is one in your county or region, they may have a program to help you in this situation, or at least they would know if there is any assistance available.

I'm really sorry you are having to deal with this, losing a pet is hard enough as it is.

[ellenrr]

3. you are right, it's like when a person dies,

and their survivor worries about the cost of the funeral, in addition to grieving the loss.
thank you, I will call right now.

[Cal Carpenter]

5. Your vet may be very willing to work with you too,

I know our vet would do the right thing for a pet even if we couldn't pay up front, because he is incredibly compassionate and kind and tries hard to keep costs low (very few bells and whistles at the office, but super good care).

I know a lot of vet clinics these days are super expensive corporate-style profit centers, so there may be vets out there who are really harsh about this stuff, but I would hope that your vet would at least set up a payment plan. It's not like you are asking for thousands of dollars on credit or something.

[ellenrr]

8. I was thinking recently of the old days, when a single vet had a practice,

and in that case would be more willing to work with you.
But now most of them (mine is) in a practice, and they really have no say over fees.
and no accountability, you know-
"It's not me being cold and callous, it's the office. These are the rules"

I called the Humane Society and they said they would do it for $100.00 but for that I'd have to drive to Newark, and it would be an awful trip for me and kitty.

plus, for the difference of $78., I prefer to have her vet do it.

oh shit, I will pay it, but it is wrong!!

[mercuryblues]

14. call a different vet

It only cost me $75 to put my cat to sleep last December. You may be able to find a cheaper one in your area.

Sorry about the pending loss.

[ellenrr]

16. I called around, found one that was $160 instead of $178. It is

demeaning to be bargain shopping for my baby's death.

thank you.

$75 would be reasonable. I would not object so loudly.
You are probably not in NJ!

[mercuryblues]

17. You are

right on more than one count. I can not believe the cost difference.

I know the agony of putting a fur buddy down. You have my heart felt sympathies. The extra turmoil adds stress to an already stressful time.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. ...

"...and their survivor worries about the cost of the funeral, in addition to grieving the loss."

So true and so heartbreaking.



I'm truly sorry, ellenrr.

[Arugula Latte]

2. I'm so sorry about all this.

On occasion our vet has allowed us to at least split our bill into two chunks. You'd think if they had a shred of humanity they'd let you pay some now and some later.

[ellenrr]

4. yeah, you'd think. :(

I just got off the phone with them, asked if they could work with me on the price being as I am a low-income senior, etc.
"No those are the prices."
well, they have me over the proverbial barrel.
I'm so shocked at the price, that I have not even been grieving for my baby, but that will come...

I think humanity is decreasing over all, and I think the day of a person being willing to work with a low-income person is pretty much over.

[Cal Carpenter]

6. Oh, wow, then disregard the reply I posted above

right when you posted this.

That's just cruel. They'd rather let your cat suffer than do the right thing. Wow.

[Ms. Toad]

15. I take it you haven't spent much time talking with vets.

Ours is always overwhelmed by putting animals to sleep. Many times it is the only option - other times treatment costs too much, or the animal has become inconvenient. It is a tremendous drain on her. We allowed one of ours to die at home, because in the week we would have put her to sleep, the vet had put at least 2 animals to sleep a day already. Our cat was not suffering - so on balance it seemed to be a kindness not to put the vet through one more euthanasia.

The next one, the vet came to our house with her assistant to avoid making our cat's last hours miserable.

At the same time, independent vets are barely scraping by - since more and more people are getting pets from rescue operations that spay and neuter them in infancy. That loss of business cuts into vets' profits - not to mention that when times are hard, people don't take their animals in for regular shots and check-ups.

So - if you were a vet trying to make ends meet (and emotionally wrung out from a fairly common and very unpleasant part of your job anyway), who would you get to pay for your rent, food, health insurance etc. so you can "do the right thing."

[Cal Carpenter]

18. Actually, I have

and as I indicated above, I am fully aware that not all vets can/will work with people on financial problems.

Whether or not there are logical/valid reasons for taking a hard line in cases like this, it doesn't make it any easier to take on an emotional/human level. I know I am lucky with the vet I use -- we are in a pet-filled small city and he has gone out of his way to build a medium sized practice that remains affordable and flexible and incredibly compassionate.

I'm not sure I understand, though, how rescue operations 'cut into vets profits' with spay/neuter requirements -- most of the rescues I am aware of (including the one where I got my dog and the one on whose board I served) use vets at clinics to do that spaying and neutering. If anything, I would imagine that their commitment to spay/neuter would ultimately *increase* business overall for veterinarians. Even bigger shelters like the humane society who require spay/neuter use vets to do the work, along with all the other veterinary care. So I don't understand your point about that, fwiw.

[Ms. Toad]

19. Until recently, spaying & neutering was done betwen 6 months & a year -

earlier for males, slightly later for females. It was the one big fee item which usually brought people in to the vet's office (and some of them became regular long term clients). What happens now is that kittens and puppies are being spayed and neutered by the rescue operations with an assembly line type vet the owners never see. That means those adopting the kittens and puppies don't have the big expense that brings them to the vet - and, absent that visit, many pet owners never establish an ongoing relationship with their vets.

The assembly line type vets charge less - and are doing the spay/neuter at an age that most full service vets believe is not medically appropriate (so even if they were willing to cut their rates, they would choose not to operate at that age).

Our vet has lost around 40% of her business to the increase of that kind of assembly line practice.

So - yes, someone is being paid to do the work, but they are doing it for cut rate fees, they are not the vets who would normally be doing the work, they are doing it an an age which many vets believe is inappropriate, and because new owners don't have a specific even to initiate an ongoing relationship with the vet, they often don't.

Sort of the equivalent of Walmart v. mom & pop.

[Cal Carpenter]

20. You're using anecdotes to compare animal rescues with Walmart

I'm not going any further with this. Good night.

[Ms. Toad]

21. Then perhaps you like the Barnes & Noble/Waldenbooks/etc. v. indie bookstore analogy better

That's what is happening.

Assembly line vets doing potentially harmful (the studies are mixed - but definitely harmful in some aspects) ultra-early spay/neuter for the sole purpose of being able to adopt them out without needing to make a follow-up appointment with a mom & pop vet - the primary contact for long term relationships with these vets.

I know the idea is to decrease the unwanted pet population - but it is having some harmful direct impacts on the pets (because of the consequences of ultra-early spay/neuter), indirect - on average - impact on health because of the failure to establish an early, long term relationship with a local vet, and a devastating impact on local vets (which, ultimately, will mean more costly & less available veterinary care when they are forced to go out of business).

[ellenrr]

24. In my town, the spray and neuter is done by a regular vet...

he does it for a lower fee.
There may be some organization that helps with the fee, I am not sure.

So not all involved "assembly-line" vets.

Plus it depends on the vet as to whether or not a "long-term" relationship is good for the cat.
My current cat's problems - which are many - all started after her first vaccination some ten years ago.
and my story is not uncommon.

while I was in my vet's office at the last visit, there was a TV which played constant scare stories of all the terrible things which could happen to your pet if they weren't vaccinated for a hundred and one things.

Most vets are in it to make money, and they try to draw people in for all kinds of unnecessary procedures which cost too much, just like doctors.

The last cat I had who died at 19 1/2 years, never saw a vet, and she was healthy right up to the time she had chronic kidney disease.

I suggest reading articles about the overuse of pet vaccination.
for ex:
"The umbrella term for health damage caused by vaccines is vaccinosis. Many people today, along with a precious few forward thinking veterinarians, are realizing that the excessive numbers of vaccines routinely given to domestic pets are wreaking havoc on these animals’ health. This is because vaccines have the ability to disrupt, dis-regulate, and in some cases even virtually destroy an animal’s natural, innate immune function. Without a properly functioning immune system, an animal is much more vulnerable than it would be otherwise to a wide variety of health problems. - See more at: http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/the-truth-about-pet-vaccines-you-wont-hear-from-your-vet/#sthash.CCDHFgyl.dpuf

~~

"Most guardians have never been told the truth about vaccinations. On the contrary, you are likely to get annual notices from your veterinarian that your companion is “due for their annual booster shots”. The evidence against vaccinating, however, is overwhelming. Most veterinarians just choose to ignore the research because they don’t want to lose the income from giving booster shots to all those animals each year.

Vaccinations represent a major stress to the immune system. They can not only cause side-effects and allergic reactions, they also contribute significantly to long term chronic disease. Chronic health problems frequently appear following vaccination including skin allergies, arthritis, leukemia, upper respiratory infections, irritable bowel syndromes, neurological conditions including aggressive behavior and epilepsy, auto-immune diseases and cancer.

I have been practicing veterinary medicine for over 20 years and I see sicker animals at a younger age now than when I began. It is more and more common to see cancer in dogs and cats under 5 years of age. Autoimmune diseases are on the rise as well. Our companions are suffering from generations of over-vaccination, which combined with inadequate nutrition, poor breeding practices and environmental stresses are leaving each generation more susceptible to congenital disorders and chronic disease.

Vaccinations do help prevent serious illnesses, but they should be used with restraint. Before vaccinating, consider the risk. If your cat is indoor only and will never be exposed to unvaccinated animals, the risk of infection is low. The decision about vaccinations is very individual and should be guided by your own research on the subject before you go to the veterinarian.

http://www.healthypetjournal.com/default.aspx?tabid=17929

~~

[villager]

13. I think that's it -- everyone wants a "system" to absolve themselves of any personal responsibility

...or decision-making (and finally, any compassion).

Automatons, not humans.

Sorry for what you're going through, since losing a beloved pet is hard enough, as other posters have noted.

Have you thought about local cat rescue groups as well? They often have vets that work with them...

[Arugula Latte]

7. Maybe you could cross post this in the Pets forum and mention the general geographic region

Who knows, maybe someone knows of a group that could help you.

[ellenrr]

10. ok, will do. thanks. I have one more try-

I know someone who feeds feral cats,
she does that trap and neuter thing.
(People like this are angels)

I left a msg for her to see if she knows anybody.

[NCTraveler]

11. Ellenrr.

Do you go on Facebook? If you do, try joining a local garage sale sites. It is amazing how many of them there are and most all allow individuals the opportunity to rehome pets. This is often not the best way to go, specially with dogs, as they could be used for nefarious purposes. That being said, it can also work out great. I had to do it with a stray cat in my neighborhood that was taking nightly beatings. The person who took her still sends me photos to this day. Just be open and upfront about the cats condition. Since it will be a local Facebook page you could end up with some great advice if no one can take it.

No matter what happens I am sorry about this struggle you are going through and wish you nothing but the best.

[ellenrr]

12. thank you for yr good wishes, and yr idea. I think

the best thing for my cat is to be "put to sleep" (hate that phrase)

she has many things wrong with her, and she is 15 years old, has been ill for a long time.

But I'll go on facebook and ask, there is a local swap group- maybe someone has a spouse who is a vet, and will take pity on me!

I've been calling around, it is awful, they go by weight. My poor kitty weighs less than six pounds.

[NCTraveler]

32. My heart goes out to you.

You will make the right decision. At 15 and ill your decision might be more clear than you think. It is so hard. I wish you the best and that you find peace and comfort with your decision.

[ellenrr]

34. thank you so much

[LeftyMom]

22. Is this about her age and health or your housing?

Last edited Tue Aug 19, 2014, 01:17 AM - Edit history (1)

You posted last week that you were worried your new housing complex wouldn't take her, and now she's too ill to go on? The timing is strange.

edit: Having looked at your recent post about your cat again, are you planning on putting her down to avoid getting her shots??? http://www.democraticunderground.com/11312852 Because a week and a half ago your only veterinary concern was avoiding getting her vaccinated.

[TBF]

31. I'm sorry about your cat -

but this was a really rude post.

[ellenrr]

26. the only thing that is "strange" is your mind.

[ellenrr]

29. Now that I'm over my anger, and my "you should be institutionalized" this is an interesting post

interesting from a sociological standpoint, on the culture of the Internet/ social media. Here's a person with so much time on her hands she goes back over my posts, looking for a "gotcha!"
if you have so much time, and nothing useful to do with it, I suggest Literacy Volunteers. We have a 40% Illiteracy rate in this country, and you could help.

I've seen this so often, I call it the Poirot syndrome. A person wants to do some 'detecting', and then concludes with great excitement -
one + one = five.

wow...

[seaglass]

35. Um no. LeftyMom had posted in the thread she referred to so no "detecting" needed. n/t

[Joe Shlabotnik]

23. Its a horrible situation.

I've been there myself, and its heartbreaking.

[ellenrr]

27. really incredible that among so many compassionate people, one moron could suggest

I would kill my cat so as not to vaccinate her!

it takes all kinds doesn't it?

I am stunned tho.

Then again, I am "stunned" in a very good way, by all the good wishes, and ideas, and thoughts and compassion that has come my way, thru my post, so I will now refuse to be undone by one irrational comment.

[ellenrr]

28. btw, just to be clear--/ and update on cat.

I would not accept money from anyone, and that was not my purpose.
I REALLY appreciate people who offered to help with the $ and I know you did it with a pure heart, but it's not that I don't have the money, I wanted to make the point that it is a whopping amount of money - to me - and that is another thing to deal with when dealing with whether or not the time has come to say good-bye.

If I really didn't have the $ and kitty was suffering, I would accept your generosity and thank you for it.
And I hope that I would do the same for someone in need.

yesterday i tried some baby food and she ate it after not eating for 48 hours. So even tho the vet thinks that she has a kidney problem, along with asthma and other things, I'm cancelling the death appt, bec. if she is eating, she is not ready to die.

The vet seemed to think the choice was between spending hundreds/thousands on diagnosis and treatment and putting her to death.
And I would agree if she isn't eating, because then she is slowly starving herself to death.

But now that she has eaten puts a different spin on it.
so I am back to the same point, of having to make sure her quality of life is worthwhile. (not mine, Hers). I don't want to keep her alive for my sake if she is suffering.

so for the moment she has brought herself back. - sigh of relief.
This has happened 4-5 times in the past. She would just stop eating and drinking, and lay about and I would think she was dying. Knowing that her health is always precarious.

Then she'd pull out of it. well she is using up some of her 9 lives.

thanks for the support on here, it has helped me keep my sanity. such a whirly-round with this girl.

[intaglio]

30. ellenrr just this

[ellenrr]

33. thank you. I needed that. :) nt

[Doremus]

37. Kidney kitties need frequent encouragement to eat.

They also have special dietary requirements that I'm sure others here are better qualified to speak to.

They require a lot of loving, attentive care. I'm sure I don't need to tell you they are definitely worth it.

[Doremus]

36. .

never mind. answered above.

[blueamy66]

38. To be honest...,

If you can't afford to feed or house yourself, why would you get a pet?

If you work 60 hours a week, why get a dog?

And I'm not talking about you specifically.

I don't know the whole situation.

It's just not fair, especially for a puppers.

My guy works 12 hour days and sleeps and golfs on his off hours. I take the mutt for walks and play fetch. Right now we're playing in the sprinklers. He shouldn't have ever bought this dog.

Anyway, if you can't afford vet bills, don't get a pet.

Sorry if it sounds harsh, but it's reality.

Best of luck to you though.

[leftyladyfrommo]

39. Part of the problem is that vet care has gotten so expensive.

The good news is that vets now have really neat machines and tests so that they can do a lot more to extend the lives of people's pets. The bad news is that it can cost a fortune. And lots and lots of people simply cannot afford that kind of money for a cat or a dog.

I'm a pet sitter so I see this all the time. You really have to take things on a case by case basis.

My own feeling about this is that pets are such an important part of so many lonely people's lives that you can't just say that if you can't afford a cat don't get one. Those animals may be all that is keeping poor, especially older people alive.

It's a sticky wicket. No easy answers.

[blueamy66]

40. I agree 100%.

It is a sticky wicket.

When I was with my ex....we had a doggie door, fenced yard....but he traveled alot for work, there wouldn't have been enough time for a puppers and I wasn't able to
pay large vet bills.

I take this dog out (my boyfriend's) 5 times a day and for walks. He's still nutso.

Anyway, didn't want to sound mean...but sometimes it's not fair to the pet...

[leftyladyfrommo]

41. So many times its not fair to either the pet or the people.

People really, really love their animals. Not having the money to keep them alive longer is a horrible situation to be in. Talk about ripping your heart out.

I have customers that have spent thousands on their dogs. And I have customers that could never afford to do that. They all love their pets. I don't judge.

[blueamy66]

42. I'm not judging.

nt