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OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 06:00 PM Aug 2014

Hey, White People with White Kids

Last edited Tue Aug 19, 2014, 01:31 PM - Edit history (7)

EDIT TO ADD, FOR THE CONTINGENT WHO INSIST ON DISTORTING AND DISTRACTING: Because I am white, and because I recognize that white privilege exists, I am speaking primarily to other white people who deny that racism exists or deny that their knee-jerk reactions about Michael and Trayvon and the many other young people as being "thugs" is a form of prejudice and contributes to the perpetuation of systemic racism. Hence the chosen subject line. White people who have non-white children recognize of what I speak here; many though not all white people with white children don't. It's as simple as that.


(Blog post adapted from a Facebook post, addressing my white family and friends. I'm a white female, by the way.)


I'm especially talking to those of you predisposed to see young men like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown as thugs. (I doubt you're even aware of the many other young black people killed nearly weekly, unarmed and committing no crime whatsoever, because the shooter felt threatened due to the color of their skin or made deadly assumptions about them.)

Neither of those young men had a police record or "rap sheet," in spite of what is floating around the cesspool that is often the internet.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Trayvon was committing a crime at the time of Zimmerman stalking and then ultimately shooting him. None.

Michael may or may not have committed a crime just before the encounter with Officer Darren Wilson.

Let's say he did. And let's say he absolutely unnecessarily and even thuggishly shoved that store clerk, for no good reason whatsoever. Let's say he behaved horribly, even though there has been no definitive connection between the incident at the store and his death at the hands of Officer Darren Wilson.

What if it were your child?

I know some of you from youth...and I know some of you shoplifted and committed petty crimes. Maybe some of your kids have done the same, at that same age. Doesn't make it right...I'm not defending any criminality. Just pointing out that a lot of things are done by people at that age that they're not proud of; they may or may not have gotten caught and suffered the consequences. Some of you didn't get caught, but you did the crime nevertheless.

But let's say your child, even a large male child, just committed the crime of stealing something from the corner store, not armed.

All you know and all you care about is that your child is lying in the middle of a fairly quiet street for hours. Dead. Shot AT LEAST SIX TIMES. You are forced to stay outside the police tape line, and don't see anyone attempting to resuscitate your child or even take his pulse.

What if this occurred in an environment in which local law enforcement has been known, for decades, to target and harass people who look like your son? So there is the added layer of a generational history of anger and mistrust and fear involved, built in to your personal tragedy.

Given the details, or lack thereof, and the sequence of events of how law enforcement has handled this shooting, wouldn't you feel you're losing your mind?

The outside events swirling around the death of your child don't matter. People are protesting and a small faction of criminals are being opportunistic, wreaking havoc by looting and stealing and behaving like horrible human beings even though they are NOT representative of the people in your community.

That all matters not.

Your child is dead, at someone else's hands. And you don't know precisely how or why, and you're not getting answers.

The investigation is FUBAR. All efforts seem geared toward portraying your child as a white thug or distracting from your child altogether, and you know there are millions of people saying that because your child may have stolen something from the corner store, he's a thug. He's nothing else...he's simply a thug now, of no value.

Your child is like most kids: not an angel, not a devil. A human being. In this social media age, there may be images of him flashing the middle finger or vines using profanity or singing offensive lyrics or any number of things -- many of which, I might add, I see adults doing as well. It's interesting how the media chooses the images and stories which least represent your child and try to take away their humanity...and then strangers believe it and pile on. All of these horrible, horrible words and lies are now on the Internet, forever.

The officer who shot your son -- there is no question who shot your child -- wasn't even identified in the media for nearly a week. It appears the blue wall was put into place quickly, deflecting to cast all blame on your child.

What if people were raising money to support the person who shot your child, without all the details having been revealed?

You would want attention given to this because you don't trust the authorities. I know I would scream to the high heavens, wanting answers, and justice. Wouldn't you?

Chances are if this happened to your white child, strangers who heard about the event wouldn't respond by demonizing your boy, and simultaneously demonizing all white people. (Chances are if this horrible travesty happened to your white child it wouldn't have garnered a lot media attention, because it's not a pattern in this country. The excessive force cases that I've seen, which involve white teens and young adults, are fairly expeditiously processed and the officers or private citizens charged and brought to trial. But if such an event happens to any child and justice doesn't seem to be served, I would hope we would all rise up, trying to put ourselves in the place of the parents and the community.)

How would you feel? Can you even attempt to empathize with another parent whose life experience, and that of their child, is vastly different from yours?

I would have lost my mind by now. I can't imagine...and thank God I can't. Thankfully I don't have the daily worry that because of the color of my child's skin she may be seen as a threat and a target. There are so many things we parents worry about already. What a blessing to not have THAT particular worry.

But that is not the reality of non-white parents. Or white parents with children who don't have white skin. I've nearly lost my mind by witnessing these tragedies for decades and observing the absolutely hateful, ignorant responses to such events.

It's a deadly disease, racism, and we all need to acknowledge it, and work to cure and heal it. You can act like it isn't your problem. It's all about "those people," but you really can't shield yourself from it. And, for the sake of all you hold dear, please don't add to this disease and spread it. You never know how it may infect or affect someone you love.

What if it were your child?


http://www.practicalcompassionnow.com/2014/08/hey-white-people-with-white-kids.html



Edit to add this graphic, thanks to DUer, napkinz:




110 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Hey, White People with White Kids (Original Post) OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 OP
... napkinz Aug 2014 #1
there is another factor , money leftyohiolib Aug 2014 #2
Very true. AverageJoe90 Aug 2014 #8
In our system of "justice" you are innocent until proven broke. kairos12 Aug 2014 #22
But in OUR system of "justice" ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #31
Sad, but true. deurbano Aug 2014 #40
Henry Louis Gates is a prominent scholar and Harvard professor. tblue37 Aug 2014 #42
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #50
When? where? JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #51
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #57
You're a little off about gates. Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #56
And that precludes him from treating blacks poorly? Anansi1171 Aug 2014 #85
Sounds silly right? Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #88
Was the President's first reaction to the Henry Louis Gates incident RIGHT OR WRONG? sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #93
Great graphic. mmonk Aug 2014 #3
Thanks, I added to the OP... OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #6
you're welcome ... here's one posted by DUer Cha napkinz Aug 2014 #13
K&R napkinz Aug 2014 #4
It's #%^* like this that's makes the internet a cess pool Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #5
What about this OP makes you say that? n/t OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #7
It's one thing to Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #10
No, it doesn't start and end with real estate. OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #15
Give it two generations Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #19
"Give it two generations." And how many innocent black men have to get killed in the meantime? n/t nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #24
Are you kidding me. Is that a question. Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #28
We can't sit back and wait 50 years when racism is killing people *today*. n/t nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #32
Its gotten better, just not good enough, but it will continue to improve. Thats his point 7962 Aug 2014 #44
Way too many. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #45
Wow. What a statement. OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #27
If that's how you feel, so be it. Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #29
You're kidding right? ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #37
I'm talking about traditional neighborhood development Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #43
. Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #64
You do realize that racism is a white people problem right? bravenak Aug 2014 #80
That's kinda what I said Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #86
Oh. bravenak Aug 2014 #87
Yo, nobody says like you say it Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #89
Ain't that the truth!!! bravenak Aug 2014 #90
It is FIVE GENERATIONS since the American Civil War ended csziggy Aug 2014 #73
It's been no generations with what I'm talking about Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #78
Racism. bravenak Aug 2014 #81
Historical racism created and maintained segregated neighborhoods csziggy Aug 2014 #82
In all fairness Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #84
I am responding the your posts in this thread csziggy Aug 2014 #91
It's all there Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #92
I've thought a lot about this Chathamization Aug 2014 #99
We had a very segregated school system Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #108
Won't be over the way things are going. They said that in the 1960's when I was a kid... haele Aug 2014 #100
Beautiful post. Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #101
Thank you, haele... OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #107
Could you clarify etherealtruth Aug 2014 #9
Out of curiosity, are you aware I'm quoting. Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #11
Yes, I was etherealtruth Aug 2014 #12
Of course not. Please see #10 Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #14
no, it's those who support people like zimmerman who do that JI7 Aug 2014 #18
What real sense does that make in the context of this discussion? Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #21
Actually, it's posts like OneGrassRoot's that gives the internet enlightenment and Cha Aug 2014 #95
And what's yours? Boom Sound 416 Aug 2014 #97
This should be airlifted to the group of Wilson supporters that showed up yesterday Number23 Aug 2014 #16
You have a beautiful way of putting things JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #53
Oh dear... OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #58
Hey white people doesn't sound racist, but if it was hey black people, it would? WCLinolVir Aug 2014 #17
Do you deny that white privilege exists? OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #20
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #38
Are you addressing that to me, 1SBM? OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #39
I would think that if I wrote something ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #59
One of the things I released recently... OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #60
No ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #61
Gotcha. :) n/t OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #62
I am referring to the title. WCLinolVir Aug 2014 #110
+100 840high Aug 2014 #23
So summary execution of black teenagers without trial isn't so bad, but making nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #26
Don't ass ume You know what I think. 840high Aug 2014 #30
Presumption rather than assumption. Though I realize that would negate your bumper-sticker wittery.. LanternWaste Aug 2014 #41
It would appears so .... etherealtruth Aug 2014 #34
lol Number23 Aug 2014 #68
Excellent post malaise Aug 2014 #25
thanks for this Quayblue Aug 2014 #33
... OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #35
It wont be long maindawg Aug 2014 #36
Last year we caught three kids trashing wheelchairs in our parking structure. rustydog Aug 2014 #46
18 is not a "child" The Green Manalishi Aug 2014 #47
Do you have children of your own? TBF Aug 2014 #49
^^ This ^^ OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #54
OK semantics....He WAS a teenager, 18 years old- 13 ti 19 makes him teenage. rustydog Aug 2014 #55
Age has nothing to do with "child" or "adult"in anything other than legal sense. haele Aug 2014 #106
Sorry the "he's just a child" The Green Manalishi Aug 2014 #109
Are you saying that DUers are arguing that racism doesn't exist? pnwmom Aug 2014 #48
No, however... OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #52
You didn't ask m, but ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #65
Do you think this is a common problem here? pnwmom Aug 2014 #69
Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #71
"playing the race card"? Wow. I can't remember ever seeing that here, but I believe you. pnwmom Aug 2014 #72
On further consideration ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #74
Well, it shouldn't be happening ever. And it can't really be blamed on trolls pnwmom Aug 2014 #75
True and True ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #76
^^ I've seen that for years here ^^ OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #77
A loud minority ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #79
Not surprised. It is sad. OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #83
NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE Capt. Obvious Aug 2014 #63
White woman here who is neither blind to the privilege nor pleased about it tavalon Aug 2014 #66
I think it's both. OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #67
Yeah, that makes sense. tavalon Aug 2014 #70
The job was never finished in the first place johnlucas Aug 2014 #102
The Internet will speed up the process just like Television did johnlucas Aug 2014 #104
Great points. OneGrassRoot Aug 2014 #105
k&r nt freemay20 Aug 2014 #94
+1 doxydad Aug 2014 #96
K&R&NT ZombieHorde Aug 2014 #98
Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Aug 2014 #103
 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
8. Very true.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 06:37 PM
Aug 2014

But as you and I will probably both agree, the systemic DISadvantage no doubt played a significant role.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
31. But in OUR system of "justice" ...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:34 PM
Aug 2014

(Our meaning: as related to Black people), we don't even get the "until proven broke" part ... unless we happen to be wealthy AND well known.

tblue37

(65,340 posts)
42. Henry Louis Gates is a prominent scholar and Harvard professor.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:11 PM
Aug 2014

He is well-known, but not well-known among cops, I presume. (OJ Simpson was well-known to cops, so that allowed him a significant degree of consideration from them.)

But Henry Louis Gates both Black and not well-known to cops, so his interactions with a cop was a bit less cordial.

When he was returning from a trip, his neighbor called the cops to report a burglary, since a Black man was entering a nice house in the neighborhood, so of course she assumed he must be a burglar. Isn't that the typical profile of a burglar--elderly, standing on the front porch with a suitcase, working a key in the door?

Well, he was Black, so I guess for some people that alone justifies suspicion.

The (white) cop shows up and badgers and verbally bullies this distinguished professor in his own home, but instead of kissing the cop's tushy and behaving with an "acceptable" degree of submissiveness, Gates gets annoyed and complains that he is being hassled in his own home for being Black.

The cop is pi**ed off because this Black man is not properly respecting his "authoritah" so he first follows him into his house--without being invited to--and then tricks him into stepping out on the porch, where the bullyboy cop immediately cuffs and arrests him.

And for those who complain about Obama's failing to respond forcefully to the Ferguson situation the way they want him to, my response is that they need to remember what happened when Obama dared to make the obvious point that this young bullyboy cop's racist hassling and arresting of such a distinguished man as Henry Louis Gates was "stupid."

Response to tblue37 (Reply #42)

Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #51)

 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
56. You're a little off about gates.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:51 PM
Aug 2014

And as I recall that cop taught the sensitivity training classes for the Cambridge PD

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
93. Was the President's first reaction to the Henry Louis Gates incident RIGHT OR WRONG?
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 12:12 AM
Aug 2014

Never mind the the reaction of BIGOTS, (why the hell should ANYONE, let alone the President, care one bit about what Bigots have to say anyhow?) WAS HE RIGHT?

We don't need leaders who worry about what bigots have to say. We need leaders who will STAND UP TO BIGOTS.

We've had a few presidents who did that. They too were attacked by bigots. Should LBJ have worried about BIGOTS when he decided to push through the CIVIL RIGHTS BILL? Should he have played it safe' and backed off when he saw the reaction of BIGOTS?

Thankfully there have been leaders who didn't worry about the opinions of the bad guys because if we had never had such leaders, just think where we would still be today.

This country has a huge problem and it is BIGOTRY especially among law enforcement personnel, which results in almost daily assaults on the African American community by Law Enforcement. And sooner or later SOMEONE is going to have to address it head on and not worry about the reaction of the BIGOTS because if we are to wait for no reaction to whoever makes that stand, we will be waiting for a very, very long time.

Right now we need leaders, leaders that we had during the original Civil Rights Movement. So far, I don't see too many, certainly not among our elected officials.

 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
10. It's one thing to
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 06:49 PM
Aug 2014

Identify racism in its many hidden layers.

To call it out. To do what we can as individuals and community members to halt it. Because as we know, racism is something you have to learn.

The key to ending racism, frankly starts and ends with real estate and in particular integrated mixed used developments. Houses, apartments, shops and offices based on a grid design with alleys. Alleys are key. They are found mostly at both the very top and bottom of the income scale.

And their is this nonsense: "Hey White People"

Which frankly is worse than meaningless. It's an empty pat on the back from your own hand masqueraded as a job well done.

And that's I can say that.

OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
15. No, it doesn't start and end with real estate.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:07 PM
Aug 2014

Economics and housing are a HUGE part of it, but people empathizing with other people can affect changes in the institutions and systemic racism. That's my intention.

Institutional racism and white privilege exist. They are a fact, and I'm trying to point that out to the people who deny it, especially white people.

Otherwise, you lost me...I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you are saying, other than disliking the choice of subject line, which I can accept. Sadly, finding a way to get people's attention on these crowded intertubes, in order to impart a message we feel is important, sometimes requires more inflammatory subject lines than some of us are comfortable with.

"...an empty pat on the back from your own hand masqueraded as a job well done."



Okie dokie, then.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
44. Its gotten better, just not good enough, but it will continue to improve. Thats his point
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:18 PM
Aug 2014

How many police shootings do you think there are every year?

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
45. Way too many.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:20 PM
Aug 2014

What the solution is, I don't know, but for this reason and many others, our society is just begging for fundamental change. How that will come about is an open question.

OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
27. Wow. What a statement.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:29 PM
Aug 2014

Honestly, Boom Sound, I have a feeling we shouldn't interact much. I feel like we're on different planets.

I don't think there's anything natural about racism. It's nurtured, it's systemic, it's become institutionalized.

 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
29. If that's how you feel, so be it.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:31 PM
Aug 2014

But we agree on that racism is a human invention. Therefore it can be reversed.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
37. You're kidding right? ...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:43 PM
Aug 2014

how many generations have pasted since the emancipation proclamation?

The south (particularly, he lower end of the economic ladder) has been racially integrated for the better part of the last 70 years ... Yet racism persists.

There is an expression in the Fair Housing field: "In the south, Black and white can live side by side, so long as the Black knew his/her place; but in the North, Black and White cannot live side by side, because if the Black knew his/her place, he/she would know his/her place is not next to a white person."

 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
43. I'm talking about traditional neighborhood development
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:12 PM
Aug 2014

But yes, I hear you, and to an extent agree with you.

My southern experience, growing up in an intensely segregated city, does not, however.

Yes the very poor white and black lived in some proximity to one another and their were, of course some pockets of integration, the rest were segregated by some conventional boundary, be it an interstate or water way or some type of non residential zone.

President Obama touched on this a few years ago and the predicables act accordingly, but he talked about a federal 'push' to integrated zip codes.

But, sadly that's as far as it went I suppose.

Real estate. And not just 'housing' but traditional neighborhoods are the key. From there so many barriers begin to fall away. First and foremost the scary black man. Second, classrooms. Third small business.
(Please google 'traditional neighborhood development and mixed use zoning)

One of the great obstacles is (a New York term. (Specifically 5th ave)) "their goes the neighborhood," a frankly criminal, mentality that integrated neighborhoods lose monetary value.

It's the protection of that value where we need a new set of civil rights laws. That people can't discrimate on the house value due to integration. We need the Feds on this one.

But while I'm speaking somewhat in the abstract, please don't mistake for naivety. I spent more than a decade in 35 US state documenting the realities and crimes. I've listened to the conversations up and down the income spectrum from The Mission to Montauk.

You hear a lot holding a microphone for a living.

We know the children aren't the problem. We need to get them together. They will lead us out as a human race.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
80. You do realize that racism is a white people problem right?
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:24 PM
Aug 2014

In this country, blacks have never had the power to disadvantage whites. It's up to white people to fix the shit they started. We cannot fix it for them. And we cannot wait two generations. Otherwise it will be white kids treated like crap one day and people will just ignore it and use this shit that's going on right now and for the last 400 years to justify it.

It is time for white people to take responsibility for what they do, teach, how they devalue others.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
73. It is FIVE GENERATIONS since the American Civil War ended
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:04 PM
Aug 2014

And the slaves were freed from their masters. But the descendants of those slaves are still not truly free to live as equals in this country.

It's been TWO GENERATIONS since Brown v. Board of Education stated that "separate educational facilities are inherently unequal" but most black children in this country are still in de facto segregated schools that are nearly always underfunded, under supplied, and understaffed.

It's not over and two more generations will not see it over unless people FIGHT for their rights.

Racism is nurtured and unless we remove impressionable children from every home that holds a bigot we will not be able to stop it being taught for far longer than two generations.

 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
78. It's been no generations with what I'm talking about
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:18 PM
Aug 2014


" but most black children in this country are still in de facto segregated schools that are nearly always underfunded, under supplied, and understaffed."

Exactly. And how does that happen? What path puts these kids in these schools? Could it be which district they live?

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
82. Historical racism created and maintained segregated neighborhoods
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:26 PM
Aug 2014

So no, it is not "no generations with what I'm talking about" - it has taken all those generations I was talking about to achieve this level of segregation and keep it in place despite generations of court rulings trying to overcome it.

You have a very short term view of what has gotten us to this point. Try educating yourself on the history of the subject. A few days ago someone posted a partial reading list on racism. Check it out.

 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
84. In all fairness
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:51 PM
Aug 2014

I think you've completely misunderstood me.


"You have a very short term view of what has gotten us to this point."

I'm not sure what point I wrote that relates to.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
91. I am responding the your posts in this thread
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 12:03 AM
Aug 2014
10. It's one thing to
Identify racism in its many hidden layers.

To call it out. To do what we can as individuals and community members to halt it. Because as we know, racism is something you have to learn.

The key to ending racism, frankly starts and ends with real estate and in particular integrated mixed used developments. Houses, apartments, shops and offices based on a grid design with alleys. Alleys are key. They are found mostly at both the very top and bottom of the income scale.

19. Give it two generations
And it' over.

78. It's been no generations with what I'm talking about

" but most black children in this country are still in de facto segregated schools that are nearly always underfunded, under supplied, and understaffed."

Exactly. And how does that happen? What path puts these kids in these schools? Could it be which district they live?


How is that "no generations?" How is any of that "two generations" fixable? It hasn't been fixable since slavery was abolished or since the Civil Rights Movement made what gains it did. Maybe having a black president has brought still existing racism to a boil, but it has never been gone.

You are not making yourself clear here.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
99. I've thought a lot about this
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 02:15 PM
Aug 2014

One thing that might be a good idea is to make all schools open to anyone in the wider jurisdiction. You'd probably have to do that slowly, though, to increase capacity and the number of schools in areas that are considered good (it might be a pretty large investment).

But keep in mind that the segregation isn't only, or even predominantly, racial. I've seen situations were schools were fine with people of all colors, but did what they could to keep out individuals from the "wrong areas."

 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
108. We had a very segregated school system
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 05:04 PM
Aug 2014

In Jacksonville.

It was so bad the DOE de-authorized the school board and turn them into mostly an advisory board with DOE giving final authority over integration attempts.

Two ideas they pushed hard and failed.

One. The centers
That meant no matter where you lived, you went to the school for your grade. Didn't work because Jacksonville combined with Duval county and created one of the largest land area cities in the world. So kids were getting on the bus hours before school and could be bussed forty miles to their school.

2: the magnet program
This was for kids who enrolled into various electives. Each school had a specialty. My school was law and politics for example. The problems were many. Again bussing, but this time it was beyond moving kids all over the city. Becuause it was less kids, they had to go even earlier so they could still pick up the kids for whose district it was. Their were additional issues. Some them with a kind of sabatoge undertone.

All that said. The way to solve the problem is integrated mixed use tradional neighborhood development.

Thanks for the post.

haele

(12,650 posts)
100. Won't be over the way things are going. They said that in the 1960's when I was a kid...
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 02:34 PM
Aug 2014

Racism is nurtured, and what's more, racism is profitable. Racism is an expression of power.

I'm an old white lady, but I've spent much of my life in red-lined neighborhoods, and I've seen the institutionalized racism up close and personal for a long, long time. Hell, 15 years ago when I was car-pooling to work with a black male co-worker who had been a former deputy, he was pulled over for DWB getting off the freeway. Apparently, for about 10 minutes there after it was determined his nice new SUV wasn't stolen, he was my drug-selling pimp, even though we were both dressed for shipyard work with hardhats and steel-toe boots, and he had identified himself as a former deputy. Boy, that cop that pulled him over was really enjoying it until he found out he had no reason to hold us other than to make us late for work.

Racism is very profitable - maybe not as much for businesses, but for cultural institutions and organizations. Political. Judicial. Religious. Media. Advertising. "Think Tanks".

It's profitable to have a majority of your consumer base living in a survival mode. It's politically expedient to have a target to focus the attention of your "base" on, especially one in which you can paint with all sorts of savage imagery - "look at all of them, they're different, they're big and strong and scary, and they're hungry and mad because you have stuff and they don't."
With the subtext that they aren't as good as you, because they've always been savages - servants, or unskilled laborers just able to follow orders, or when they do make money, it's because they have been bred to be stronger or they can shuck and jive. They can't possibly be smart enough or truly talented enough to be doctors or engineers or leaders.
They don't deserve to be more successful than those who had historically been "in charge". They are the other. They are animals, no matter how hard they work, or how smart they are, or how much of a citizen they try to be.

To paraphrase LBJ - "You can pick the pocket of the poorest white man at your leisure once you can convince him you think he's better than any black man". Because if you can make the lowest, meanest, most ignorant white man who has no real power think he's a "Big Man" in comparison to his Black neighbor - or anyone else who isn't like "him", you've got him by his little head. Same with women. Racism gives them Power.

The "Big Man" always speaks with authority - and the elephant in the room when it comes to this discussion is that in under-educated, over-worked America, the "Big Man" has been White for over 300 years. The "Big Man" is entitled to all the wealth and to decide who is deserving.

You may talk about some similar attitudes in other cultures within America, but their influence on overall American culture, economic growth and quality of life is minimal at best. We're talking main-stream America here, not some ChinaTown or Chaldean community in SoCal where the economy is controlled by the few wealthy immigrant families that bought most of the land and local businesses for the immigrants that followed, so maybe your white kid can't get a full-time job because "the relatives" get all the good jobs.
We're also not talking about "reverse racism" where minority category can give an applicant one to five additional "points" when all other categories are equal - unless, of course, the applicant is an Alumni's kid who gets in with the absolute minimum points in all categories, or knows the Boss and can get a good-paying job description written specifically for him or her.

In 1968, when I was 9, my highly educated parents (a Historian and an Anthropologist) truly, truly, believed that by 2000, there would be no more institutional racism, that neighborhoods would be peopled in accordance with economic and financial resources, and the only "gates" to education or jobs would be the person's ability and talents, not race, or gender, or class - or who they were related to. That all this issue with Race, and Politics, and Economics, and Religion would be worked out within "two or three generations". That the American People would remain progressive, and educated, and looking forward.

Ain't happening. It's still a long, hot summer filled with blood and broken glass that never really ended.

And I'm just shaking my head, because those "two or three generations" - those children of the same cowardly, greedy bastards who pushed and squeezed the powerless "below them" until they popped just because they wanted to prove those people were savages and worthless - are doing the same bloody, heartless things they were doing when I was a little girl.

Haele




etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
9. Could you clarify
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 06:38 PM
Aug 2014

Are you saying the "Op"/ the blog the OP is quoting from is what makes the internet a cess pool?

Cha

(297,196 posts)
95. Actually, it's posts like OneGrassRoot's that gives the internet enlightenment and
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 06:57 AM
Aug 2014

inspiration.

Yours is just rude ignorance.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
16. This should be airlifted to the group of Wilson supporters that showed up yesterday
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:08 PM
Aug 2014

All white. And just as charming and intelligent as one would expect. I especially liked the guy that chastised the police for trying to communicate with the protestors before comparing them to dogs.

Newshaw criticized the Missouri Highway Patrol for "doing exactly what the violent protesters want" and trying to use more communication and less force.

"They're going to keep pushing the envelope," he said of demonstrators who've gotten violent during protests in Ferguson. "There's no reason to stop. ... It's as simple as training your dog. If you don't tell them stop biting, guess what, he's going to continue to bite."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/17/darren-wilson-protest_n_5686491.html

JustAnotherGen

(31,818 posts)
53. You have a beautiful way of putting things
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:49 PM
Aug 2014
They certainly were charming weren't they. I'm still in shock at the quality and extent of ignorance coming from that crew. I shouldn't be - but I am.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
17. Hey white people doesn't sound racist, but if it was hey black people, it would?
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:09 PM
Aug 2014

If you want to raise the level of consciousness, try not making blanket assumptions based on skin color, it is racist to do so.

OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
20. Do you deny that white privilege exists?
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:11 PM
Aug 2014

As a white person, I'm speaking to other white people, inviting them to imagine the unimaginable.

For those who distort that as racism, so be it. It's usually the same people who deny white privilege.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
38. LOL ...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:49 PM
Aug 2014

As a Black Person, I'd like to ask you, as a white person ... When a white person specifically addresses a white audience; what does the insertion of the word "Black" have to do with that message?

OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
39. Are you addressing that to me, 1SBM?
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:53 PM
Aug 2014

Hi, btw.

If you're addressing that question to me, I don't know the answer...lol. DU has gotten way too libertarian and weird for me, it seems. Like another planet and I don't speak the language.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
59. I would think that if I wrote something ...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:06 PM
Aug 2014

and specifically, addressed it to Black folks and my topic concerned Black people ... I would not expect Black folks to respond, "But what about white people?"

But that's just me.

OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
60. One of the things I released recently...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:11 PM
Aug 2014

is the strong desire to understand others, and to be understood.

Posting to DU is the perfect test of putting that into practice.

Normally I wouldn't expect what I posted in this OP to be met with replies of "what about black people" -- honestly, I can't even wrap my brain around some of the replies here -- but I realize anything is to be expected here.

Not sure if that answered your question. Like I said, I feel like I don't speak the language here any more, so I'm not really connecting with anyone nor communicating well, evidently.



 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
61. No ...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:19 PM
Aug 2014

You are communicating effectively (and you are/have connected/connecting with me) ... It's just an apparent need of some white DUers to be racial victims and/or disruptors of racial discussions. The substitute "Black" here point is to attempt to stop a white person from telling white folks, stop being racist ... because "#NotAllWhitePeople".

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
26. So summary execution of black teenagers without trial isn't so bad, but making
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:26 PM
Aug 2014

general statements about "white people"? OMG that's terrible!

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
41. Presumption rather than assumption. Though I realize that would negate your bumper-sticker wittery..
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:05 PM
Aug 2014

Presumption rather than assumption in this context. Though I realize that would negate your bumper-sticker wittery... and that may be the wittiest thing you've written to date. I feel ya, bro.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
34. It would appears so ....
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:38 PM
Aug 2014

I must be slow on the uptake ... I never realize I am supposed to be offended at the very mention of white privilege .... or posts directed to white folk c... who knew

Quayblue

(1,045 posts)
33. thanks for this
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:37 PM
Aug 2014

Immediately I thought of "A Time to Kill". I find that in general, a lot of folks just cannot empathize with the difficulties of others unless you bring it to their homes, so to speak.

 

maindawg

(1,151 posts)
36. It wont be long
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 07:39 PM
Aug 2014

before this whole ball of wax rolls into the SC and they rule that black/poor people dont matter so fuck it.
Its ok to kill a few.

rustydog

(9,186 posts)
46. Last year we caught three kids trashing wheelchairs in our parking structure.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:23 PM
Aug 2014

They escaped but were dumb enough to return and continue to damage hospital property. We called the police and they caught them down the road as the ejuvies fled from me and my partner in the garage.

They held the kids and called their parents. All were white. Two parents arrived and immediately let go a verbal barrage on why it took 3 cops and 2 security officers to harass their babies...they weren't doing anything. The 3rd parent cried and said she'd pay to repair the chairs her son damaged.

The other two's tirade continued until both were told the 4 wheelchairs cost at minimum 500.00 each and all were damaged by their "angels".
White, property damage, fleeing custody and they lived to hear their mommies disparage cops and security in front of them.

White privilege in America.

TBF

(32,056 posts)
49. Do you have children of your own?
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:35 PM
Aug 2014

When my father had a heart attack in his early 60s no one was more upset than his still living mother. That's her child - whether he's 6 or 60.

That is the point you are missing.

rustydog

(9,186 posts)
55. OK semantics....He WAS a teenager, 18 years old- 13 ti 19 makes him teenage.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:51 PM
Aug 2014

The unarmed teenager now, has no life.

Let's argue semantics it is so productive.

To his mother an father he was their CHILD! My 33 year old son is my CHILD...If he were gunned down I would lament the loss of my child.

haele

(12,650 posts)
106. Age has nothing to do with "child" or "adult"in anything other than legal sense.
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 03:28 PM
Aug 2014

Experience does. And too many children were raised by people who never had to or were not capable of taking responsibility or providing an example of being an adult and making adult choices. Throw in mental issues, and you can have a 40 year old man- or woman-child who just can't function at a level past what society expects a freshman in High School to function at. And many of these "children"

My stepdaughter at 18 was mentally no older than she was at 15. Certainly no more emotionally mature or personally responsible than she was at 12 - which is when we were finally able to get the Alabama courts to get her out of her abusive, isolating mother's custody and into her father's custody. She's got PTSD;physically abused, with some possible brain damage from the beatings and starvation she suffered until we could get her.

She's just starting to understand there's a world outside of her immediate wants and needs now that she's 22 and has a 3 year old girl. Her new husband, the baby's father, just turned 21, and still has no concept about being an adult. He's getting paid an allowance and room for "managing" the family apartment complex, and is just perfectly happy doing that until he wants to do something else. Maybe he'll go to tech school; his grandfather told him he'd pay him more if he learned to be an electrician, plumber, or HVAC tech. But then again, maybe not.



That's how he was raised. His father is the same way - a big kid with toys who plays in pool tournaments for fun. They all came from a good, middle class family that lucked into the ability to purchase some good multi-unit investment property back in the late 1960's pre-Prop-13, so it's going on two generations now that have never wanted for money - or opportunity if they wanted to take it.

Me, at 18, I was getting out of Boot Camp, going through C-school, and on my way to being a work-center supervisor by the time I was 20. At 18, my husband was fry-cook and later night shift (closing) manager for a small-town Dairy Queen and on his way to University.


So, you can call 18-year olds adults until you're blue in the face, but they aren't adults until they can handle being adults. Even if they are "legally" there. If the experiences and "teachable moments" that trigger emotional development and brain maturity have not occurred or has been hijacked, they can't even cconceive on what it is like to be an adult. Anything you try to say or show them is "blah, blah, blah..." until it clicks.

Haele

The Green Manalishi

(1,054 posts)
109. Sorry the "he's just a child"
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 06:20 PM
Aug 2014

line, from anyone other than the parents, just makes the person making the argument, and by extension the argument, look irrational.

An adult is a person 18 or over. Expecting the world or anyone other than their immediate relatives to treat or regard a person 18 or older as anything other than an adult is just dumb.

relatives, yeah, but if someone breaks the law and they are over 18 they should be treated as an adult, unless they are so mentally incompetent that they need to be institutionalized or have a caretaker.

Personally, I was out of the house working and going to JC at 15.

OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
52. No, however...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 08:48 PM
Aug 2014

I shared the post because I thought it may help in others' interactions with white people who deny or are clueless about racism, specifically the prejudice manifesting in the wake of Michael Brown's death (and other high-profile losses before him).

However, I do see racism at DU, and certainly some of the people exhibiting it deny it so, yes, I am saying that there are some DUers who argue that racism exists to any significant degree. Though that wasn't my original intention with this post.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
65. You didn't ask m, but ...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:45 PM
Aug 2014

DUers aren't arguing that racism doesn't exist; but, much like conservatives, they just can't seem to recognize it when it occurs.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
71. Yes ...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 10:40 PM
Aug 2014

I can't count the number of times a PoC has pointed out an instance of racism ... only to be told that they were "playing the race card", or "making it tough for those that suffered real racism/discrimination".

But this isn't an exclusively racial thing ... I've noticed the same thing when a woman calls out misogyny/sexism.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
72. "playing the race card"? Wow. I can't remember ever seeing that here, but I believe you.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 10:57 PM
Aug 2014

And it makes me sad.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
74. On further consideration ...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:06 PM
Aug 2014

maybe it's not a lot of DUers; but those (few) that do are very, very prolific in posting that crap ... like every time a PoC or woman points out racism/discrimination or misogyny/sexism.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
75. Well, it shouldn't be happening ever. And it can't really be blamed on trolls
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:10 PM
Aug 2014

when it happens repeatedly.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
76. True and True ...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:13 PM
Aug 2014

The tell is the "it's classism" refrain ... right before denying my life experience.

OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
77. ^^ I've seen that for years here ^^
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:16 PM
Aug 2014

Adding my two cents that I've witnessed that for quite a few years here, it's not a new development. Not the majority but a loud minority.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
79. A loud minority ...
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:22 PM
Aug 2014

that has been specifically pointed out as the reason a number of PoC, particularly Black, DUers are no longer DUers.

And sadly, when those PoC/Black DUers state there reason for leaving, it is met with silence by the vast majority of Non-PoC DUers ... or, snarky "goodbyes" by the offenders ... also to silence.

OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
83. Not surprised. It is sad.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:29 PM
Aug 2014

Like I mentioned upthread somewhere, I used to feel like part of this community years ago, but it has changed a lot. I suppose that happens with any community as it grows but the kind of environment you've described with the constant antagonism -- even if by a vocal minority -- doesn't make me want to keep trying to find my place here. Not worth it.

tavalon

(27,985 posts)
66. White woman here who is neither blind to the privilege nor pleased about it
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 09:55 PM
Aug 2014

I want what Martin Luther King wanted.

I wonder, is this actually getting worse or is the internet allowing us to shine a light on the pigs, er, cockroaches?

OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
67. I think it's both.
Mon Aug 18, 2014, 10:04 PM
Aug 2014

I realize some things may have gotten better in recent decades, but I think racism has been seething just beneath the surface since the 60s, with people pissed off that they didn't feel the freedom to be open with it any more. Limbaugh & Company came along and stoked the fires, convincing them they're not really racist (whereas previously the people I know would proudly own it). These same people taught their kids, and now they're all online, spewing their hatred via viral emails, FB and twitter, so it all seems amplified.





 

johnlucas

(1,250 posts)
102. The job was never finished in the first place
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 02:53 PM
Aug 2014

Those 1960s acts getting passed only STARTED to fix the problem.
And the problem goes to the very beginning of the country.
They had to chance to finish it off after 1865 but they quit by 1877.
So the problems festered.

We don't finish what we start & that's why this stuff keeps coming up.
We make a major accomplishment, we win a battle but we don't win the war.

The Civil War started long before 1861 & is still going on long after 1865.
Are we gonna finish the job or not?
What does the United States of America REALLY stand for?

On this issue there cannot be another compromise.
3/5 Compromise wasn't enough & neither will any other be.
John Lucas

 

johnlucas

(1,250 posts)
104. The Internet will speed up the process just like Television did
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 03:05 PM
Aug 2014

TV was a TREMENDOUS boost to the Civil Rights Movement.
It allowed those who would be normally apathetic & dismissive of the cause to see those in the movement as human beings.
When those Confederates overreached & bombed that church, they did themselves in.
Even the most apathetic had to say that went too far.

TV was always a passive medium controlled by a broadcast company though.
So if they didn't allow you to see people being sprayed viciously in the streets with waterhoses, you wouldn't see it.
And when TV promoted the message that all Blacks are criminals & savages, it was harder to send the correct message.

With the Internet though, the message is less controlled by one or a few entities.
That hampers universal coverage, sure, but the pure message can get out MUCH easier.
With mostly everybody owning a smartphone or at least some computer, no one can miss a powerful Tweet or Facebook message or YouTube capture in this active medium.
It's a BRIGHTER spotlight than TV ever was.
And if someone organizes the various messages of the Internet in a powerful way, the results will be miraculous.

They are making the SAME EXACT mistake the Confederates made in 1963 when they bombed that church.
You see them traumatize refugees at the Mexican/U.S. border, you see them go Blackwater War Zone against unarmed citizens.
Those Pavlovian fools are digging their own grave & they don't even know it.

They have trained since birth to see 'Black' & start foaming at the mouth.
Pavlov response. That's why they can't help themselves.
They're GOING to Yosemite Sam the whole entire way shouting loud with guns ablaze.

All we got to do is capture them as they are & organize the message so it can have maximum impact.
Their time is up. This is Custer's Last Stand.
John Lucas

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