Strong Evidence That Brown Was Executed

[MoleyRusselsWart]

Last edited Tue Aug 26, 2014, 12:30 PM - Edit history (1)

We all know the defense's story, that Brown ran, turned around, and charged at Wilson.

Yet, according to the autopsy report, there were no abrasions on Brown's hands, knees or legs. As anyone who's done it knows, if you are running on pavement and trip or go down for any reason, you're in for some pain. Most commonly it's your hands (palms), knees and legs.

How could Michael Brown, a 300 pound man, "bum rush" Wilson, get shot multiple times in mid charge, and fall FORWARD on the road, without sustaining ANY of these inescapable injuries?

My opinion - he didn't.

Wilson shot Brown while he ran away, and when Brown stopped and turned around, Wilson continued to shoot, the final two head shots as Brown was slowly going down.

Brown was shot and fell where he stood, just like every witness has said, just like the autopsy supports, just like the alleged new audio supports.

[JJChambers]

1. How do you slowly fall face first?

[MoleyRusselsWart]

2. Really?

It's very logical that if you were standing with your arms up or outstretched and you started taking a hail of bullets, you would eventually go down to your knees and eventually fall face first on the ground.

More importantly......where are the abrasions if he was charging and then went down hard on the pavement as he was shot?

[99th_Monkey]

28. The cops are also claiming Brown punched Officer Wilson in the eye

So the fact that there were "no abrasions on hands/knuckles" also puts the lie to the Police account of the murder..

[MoleyRusselsWart]

31. Well certainly not

the kind of marks that would result from a punch that would do serious damage to the bone of an eye socket. Trust me....25 years of ice hockey talking here...

[AtheistCrusader]

34. And to the hand that dealt it.

[H2O Man]

35. If the damage to

the officer's face did happen while he was in the car, and the murder victim was standing outside the car, it could not have happened from a punch. However, it certainly could have happened if the murder victim was attempting to pull away, and his elbow struck the officer's cheek bone.

As I've noted on DU in the past, I've been involved in the Great Sport of Boxing for over 50 years. I was a good amateur (first covered in a feature article in Boxing Illustrated at the age of 13); I've trained numerous amateur and professional fighters; served as a referee and judge; wrote for boxing magazines; and have watched thousands of fights.

I'm pretty familiar with things such as how people can fall slowly, and how bones can be broken.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

50. Yup, that's exactly

What I was thinking. It looks like all Wilson had was some swelling, my guess the result of a flailing elbow or something during the struggle as you stated.

I don't know if you've seen the video of Wilson seconds after the shooting, but that is not a man with a serious eye injury. He's casually talking to another officer, pacing pack and forth, never once even touches his face, no visible marks or blood.

I've been playing and reffing hockey for 25 years, so I too have seen my share of people who have taken a punch to the eye/face. This guy definitely didn't suffer any serious eye injury.

[1StrongBlackMan]

55. Or, ...

it certainly could have happened if the murder victim was attempting to pull away, and his elbow struck the officer's cheek bone.

By attempting to pull away and the Officer maintaining his grab, is pulled into the door jam/window frame.

[H2O Man]

62. Good point.

Very good point. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

[1StrongBlackMan]

66. I have a bunch of experience with my head meeting car frames. eom

[tblue37]

84. Also, no swelling of Brown's hands, and no blood or skin cells

from Wilson's face.

If Wilson had not been allowed to drive away with evidence (the car the cop was driving), they could have found Wilson's DNA on the car door or doorway frame, I bet, because his swollen face was almost certainly the result of smacking it on the car or the car door when he jumped out to "punish" Brown for not respecting his "authoritah" to the degree that he wanted it respected.

[certainot]

47. maybe when you get hit in the arm a few times you might bend/hunch over holding it

[JaneyVee]

10. He may have been a bit top heavy. also,

Perhaps after being shot 5x he tried ducking?

[world wide wally]

14. all objects fall at the same speed regardless of weight: Isaac Newton

[Salviati]

16. A person, after being shot, is not in freefall.

They're being supported by their legs, so will not fall with an acceleration of g.

[heaven05]

19. another one

nitpicking for a distraction from the point. When will people realize we're not all stupid as you might think we are. Just saying. Geez All on DU, this whole exercise has proven nothing I didn't know. Racism cannot be helped in some people. Fact.

[indivisibleman]

22. There were abrasions to the head only.

Dr Baden noted that Brown had abrasions on his face from where he fell to the ground, but "otherwise no evidence of a struggle." August 18, 2014 FoxNews.com

[Spitfire of ATJ]

30. "How do you slowly fall face first?"

Around here?

Post more like that and find out.

[GliderGuider]

48. +1

[JimDandy]

85. LOL duzy! n/t

[Warpy]

53. Everybody goes down face first

Think about the mechanics, not the stupid movies. Knees and hips will buckle as a person loses consciousness. Nobody falls backwards with knees and hips locked, our bodies don't work that way. There might be a fall slightly to one side or the other, but anyone who is fatally shot will end up face down.

You might get blown backwards like they show in idiotic shoot-em-ups if you are hit with a cannon ball. Maybe.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

54. Well or a shotgun at close range (eom)

[Warpy]

59. Nope, not enough of a shock wave

and the pellets lack the necessary mass.

Give it up. You keep digging, you'll have to learn how to speak Chinese.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

61. Are you telling me Hollywood lies?

[Warpy]

70. Well, dawn breaks over Marblehead

Yes, Hollywood lies, it's their business.

Holding a gun out in front of you sideways means you couldn't hit the side of a barn if you were ten feet away from it.

And everybody who gets hit in real life crumples down face first.

Oh, by the way, there is no Santa Claus, either.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

73. Hey Warpy

Settle down guy, I was being sarcastic.

[Lurks Often]

68. No, more movie nonsense

Anything powerful enough to knock someone off their feet like in the movies would also knock the shooter off their feet.

How the human body reacts when shot isn't predictable and Hollywood usually gets it wrong. Too much depends on where the person was shot, what injuries were caused and what was used.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

74. Interesting (eom)

[notadmblnd]

76. But if the fatal shot was the one to the brain, then he may have been still conscious when he began

to go down from being shot in the face. no?

[Warpy]

82. Conscious? Probably not. A bullet to the face

means there was a considerable shock wave inside his skull. Even if he was minimally aware, he was unable to control his muscles as he slowly crumpled to the ground.

[notadmblnd]

90. watch this.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/08/21/ac-intv-brady-ferguson-shooting-eyewitness.cnn.html

[NYC_SKP]

3. We do not have the defense side of story, we just have one hearsay third party statement.

Unless I've missed something, there is no police report, no police statement, no statement from the potential defendant or from a potential defense attorney.


All we have, quite conveniently for the killer, is a statement by a "family friend".

Wilson, 28, who is now in a secret location and under police protection because of death threats, has told family and friends that he knows he was justified in the Aug. 9 shooting but is “brokenhearted” about having taken a life in the line of duty, the friend said.

In his account to close confidants, Wilson has repeatedly said he thought Brown was acting erratically when they had an altercation on a street in a garden apartment complex in Ferguson. He said that Brown was coming at him when he fired the fatal shots.

“Darren was adamant that he believed Michael Brown had some drugs in his system,” the friend said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/police-officer-who-shot-michael-brown-suffered-fractured-eye-socket-friend-says/2014/08/21/177524ea-293c-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html

[MoleyRusselsWart]

4. Well of course

They are not going to put a thing in writing until all the evidence is in so they can build their bullshit story around that. Until then, they'll leak out a general defense through 3rd party's that won't ever have to stand behind should they need to alter their bullshit.

[Cosmocat]

13. That is exactly what is happening

same thing as happened with Zimmerman ... The dead guy is dead and can't speak, so they get MONTHS to craft a story around the information/evidence.

The one thing here is that there are actual witnesses.

Unfortunately, Wilson has the supposed moral authority of actually being a police officer and Brown did whatever it is that he did at the convenience store.

Those two things are likely to mitigate what people saw, and it will go the way the martin murder went - not enough to convict by a jury, IF they bring any charges up on him.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

15. This is exactly

what I fear. You walk around and ask average white people (who aren't news obsessed like us) about this case, and almost all of them will have the opinion that Brown did something to deserve it. They'll say "well he did rob that store", or they'll say "I heard he punched the cop, charged him" and so on.

Really once that robbery video came out that was it - that was all most of White America needed to jump to the conclusion this is a just a case of another dangerous thug who was killed by a cop.

[BronxBoy]

26. Although you can never be sure....

I think there are some significant differences from the Martin case. One, there are witnesses, some of them pretty compelling. There were none in the Martin case. I know that Black witnesses are usually downplayed and discredited but there are some along with audio and video.

Also, it appears that Wilson was the only officer on the scene when this occurred. I've lived long enough and seen enough unjustified shootings to know that when there are 2 or more cops, things tend to go the way of the police and their word is taken as gospel. Does anyone know if there were any other officers on the scene when this occurred?

So given those 2 circumstances, I think it will be much harder, although not impossible, for them to pull a "Trayvon"

[atreides1]

5. In other words

All we have from a Wilson confidant, is the standard cop BS lines! You know "I felt my life was in danger", " the suspect was acting in an erratic manner", "he appeared to have been on drugs", etc!!!

[NYC_SKP]

7. They seem to have locked down every damned thing. Broken eye socket? Rumor.

I don't see any credible evidence, but the media sure ran with it.

Was a crime scene unit sent out, is there any evidence that they even looked for spent cartridges?

When the response by the police is (rather than investigate) to shut down media and intimidate witnesses and citizens, you know that system is corrupt to the core.

[JDPriestly]

18. If the evidence backed the officer's story, we would probably have it by now.

The evidence is being kept confidential because it may have to be used in a trial. If the evidence were exonerating, the police and prosecutor would probably release it in order to stop the controversy and save their jobs and reputations.

That's not evidence in itself, but it is logic.

If the evidence suggested that Wilson did not exceed his authority in his use of force, the police would likely release that evidence in order to avoid a trial or even a grand jury hearing.

That's my guess. I could be very wrong, but that is my guess.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

20. Yep, I think

you nailed it. These guys have been obstructing justice from the start - from releasing that robbery video to not releasing the officers name (giving them time to scrub the internet from anything bad about him) to not filing out and releasing to the public an incident report, to planting fake stories about crushed eye sockets and dozens of alleged witnesses who say Brown charged Wilson - and that to me is itself practically an admission of guilt.

If this was a straight up justified shoot - they would have been very open from the start, giving a detailed report of what happened. The ONLY reason they wouldn't do that is that they knew it wasn't, feared there was video somewhere of what actually happened, and so on.

[csziggy]

71. Remember Zimmerman saying "He looks like he is on drugs!"?

Same script.

Zimmerman's exact words, from transcript of his call:
"This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something."
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

That seems to be the license to kill - make a claim about the young black man then make sure he cannot counter those claims. Standard operating procedure.

[Atman]

6. I still don't get this...

“Darren was adamant that he believed Michael Brown had some drugs in his system,” the friend said.

Okay, so he believed Michael Brown had drugs in his system. So how does that translate into "I MUST KILL HIM?" Wilson is (was) a cop. He had the authority and the ability to protect himself. Why did he feel he had to kill Brown just because he had drugs in his system? Taze him, shoot him in the leg to stop him from running...but six shots? Two to the head? Wilson actually thinks this was justified? He's a fucking racist shitheel that should never be allowed to even be a mall security guard.

[NYC_SKP]

9. Her "statement" was carefully crafted for media release and public consumption.

It had all the right talking points and, conveniently, if it ends up not matching evidence and reality, no foul-- it's not admissible.

We all know that any real family friend would be told to STFU and make no statements whatsoever.

[indivisibleman]

40. I agree. She certainly appears to be a plant.

She introduced the punch to the head part of the story before anyone said anything about Wilson being injured. (correct me if I am wrong). (Josie: Brown pushed him back in, and then punched the officer in the face. It was then that Wilson reached for his gun...)
She put that misinformation out there so that people could build more of a believable story for Wilson. And that is exactly what happened as soon as she put those ideas out there.
She was not at the scene. She claimed to have heard it while discussing the event on Facebook:
When asked how she came by this information: She replies, "Um with his, significant other (inaubible) it was before it was such a huge, you know…it was Sunday night before the riots. So you know it was when they were still on facebook everyone was still talking you know it was kinda still an open discussion at that point. I of course had no idea it would turn into this."

Now I am thinking that even this part is odd. She really had no idea on Sunday night that it was a "huge" deal? It was still an open discussion at that point? I seriously doubt Wilson's family would be chatting it up on facebook on Sunday night. We can see from this and other statements she made that this is a made up version for public consumption.

Listen to how she put her motive for calling The Dana Show: "well, its been really really hard to keep quiet because I do know his version of the story, And um I have it. It seems like everyone only is talking about the other side and I understand that they haven't really gotten to hear this side. Um and I have been afraid to say anything I think we all are all his friends and family. . . Um but I just feel like I we need to put out there his version of events so maybe people can consider them as the truth if nothing else. So you want me to maybe run down?... Ok so he said that um."

[cleduc]

39. Neither do I

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/nationwide-trends

In 2012, an estimated 23.9 million Americans aged 12 or older—or 9.2 percent of the population—had used an illicit drug or abused a psychotherapeutic medication (such as a pain reliever, stimulant, or tranquilizer) in the past month.

So let's be fair and revise the number:
23,900,000 drug users - 1 Mike Brown, maybe a drug user = 22,899,999 maybe left to go ....

At 11 shots per drug user, they'll need 262,899,989 bullets. Call the Koch Bros and the NRA for funding ...

(/end silly sarcasm)

[heaven05]

21. "brokenhearted" my ass!!!

he's probably at the 'stormfront' site bragging about how good it felt to execute one of those............

[indivisibleman]

25. not yet but it is safe to speculate

that he is dreaming of the day.

[lark]

33. MF***er

Police also claimed Brown robbed the store and edited the video to remove the inconvenient fact of him paying at the counter. They also said Darren had a broken eye socket - which he didn't have. They are liars covering up for a murderer.

[NYC_SKP]

38. Yep, and most of the media have been helping them get away with it.

If it wasn't for independent witnesses and technologies, like cell phones with cameras, etc., they would find it even easier to get away with it.

Fuckers is right.

[indivisibleman]

42. you will also note

that the police said they were able to clear Johnson of committing any theft from the market and he faces no charges. So they had time to clear Johnson and he is innocent. But what of Brown? Did they reach a decision on whether or not he committed a crime? Silence.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

72. That whole video

Is fucked up. It doesn't look like a robbery or shoplifting. It looks like a disagreement or something.

I mean what black 18 year old just casually steal right in front of a clerk...stops when he drops the cigars to casually pick them up...then shove the clerk away when he tries to block his exit..........

......and then leaves and CASUALLY STROLLS DOWN THE MIDDLE IF THE STREET?????

[indivisibleman]

77. Exactly!

I sure would like to hear what the clerk says they discussed and why Brown pushed him away.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

79. And yet

No one us discussing how odd and illogical this series of events is. So frustrating.

[uponit7771]

87. +1

[BuelahWitch]

99. Personally, I'd like to know what drugs the cop had in his system

Can steroids and/or pseudo-ephedrine be found via a drug test? Not that he would have had to submit to one...

[NYC_SKP]

100. Good question, may be part of reason for his being hidden away.

I don't know how long he'd have to wait for tests to come back clear, I'm sure it differs by type of substance tested.

Hmmmmmm.

[samsingh]

8. i agree with you

[JaneyVee]

11. Spoke to a friend of a friend who is a cop...

He said the cop had to say he was being bum rushed, its standard operating procedure, his only defense. He also thinks its bullshit and Wilson had plenty of other options.

[Octafish]

12. Perhaps he was falling when shot in the top of the skull.

That might mean the last wound was the fatal one.

[indivisibleman]

24. The last shot to the head was the fatal one.

Per autopsy results. All the other shots were reported as survivable wounds.

[BronxBoy]

27. Someone posted a 7 minute interview with a witness I had never seen before...

Last edited Tue Aug 26, 2014, 02:34 PM - Edit history (1)

He says exactly that.

Here's a link to that thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5445459

[indivisibleman]

43. where is the link?

I would like to read that.

[BronxBoy]

57. Sorry

See above

[indivisibleman]

63. Thanks! n/t

[cantbeserious]

17. Yep - Damning To Say The Least

eom

[indivisibleman]

23. as more and more evidence comes out

it just becomes more and more damning against Wilson.
Brown did have abrasions to his head consistent with it hitting the pavement (per Baden autopsy) as his friend Darion Johnson stated in his eyewitness account.
Wilson shot 11 times at an unarmed teenager (per a recording from a nearby resident). Most of them while he was running away (per as many as 4 or more eyewitness accounts).
Wilson was running after Brown and not Brown after Wilson during the first shots fired.
Brown said, "ok, ok, ok, ok" as Wilson fired his last two shots to execute the teen.
It is obvious that Wilson lost it and went berserk.
His best defense would be temporary insanity.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

29. The problem will be

the LARGE latitude they allow cops (which is why we have this fucking police problem) when it comes to them claiming "they felt threatened". This is why Wilson was SURE to say that Brown went for his gun in his car. That opens the door for future claim outside the car that he had legitimate reason to believe that when Brown turned around "and came at him" that he was going to go for his gun and was therefore an imminent threat. Wilson could even say that Brown didn't charge him, but just turned around abruptly and I'd bet a jury could be convinced that was enough to make Wilson fear for his life. We are talking about a black guy after all.

I'm guessing this will go to trial, but I have serious concerns about a conviction for this reason. Or maybe a watered down conviction. And then the riots start....

[indivisibleman]

49. yes. it is plain that this is the direction they will go

but this is not what happened. He has the advantage of being a cop and a jury will give some latitude for this but they still will hear solid and convincing evidence that is contradictory to what we expect will be his version. There is also a remote chance that he will fall on his sword out of conscience. I know this is of a very low probability but he killed a man for no reason and this is something he has to live with forever regardless of what the jury decides.

As far as riots happening with him getting off I am not so sure of this. Were there any riots after the Zimmerman acquittal? I don't remember hearing of any. Trayvon was executed in much the same way Michael was. Why didn't people riot after that trial? I sure wouldn't blame them.

There needs to be a movement to change the culture of terrorism in our police force, the militarization of our police force needs to end and blacks need better representation in their local governments.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

52. No there were

No riots after Trevon, but there were no witnesses and at the end of the day no one really knows what happened. This is different. We have witnesses, evidence, and an out of control police force clearly obstructing justice and attempting to cover this up.

This more closely aligns with Rodney King. No video of course, but mountaining evidence (again including witnesses) that a brutal injustice took place.

People are not going to sit back if this cops gets off.

[Enthusiast]

32. Kicked and recommended!

The cops always lie to protect their own.

Even otherwise decent cops seldom betray their brother cop.

It's an unwritten rule.

Jesus Christ!

Can't we acknowledge this?

We all know this is true.

[Rex]

36. Really it shows that there is no good reason ever to trust a cop.

If they will go so far as to lie about how you were killed by a fellow cop, then there can be no trust. And you have to assume they would ALL do that...lie to save their friend in blue.

[Arkansas Granny]

37. This article does a pretty good job of summing up the witness statements made about this case.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/21/here-is-everything-police-and-witnesses-said-happened-when-michael-brown-was-killed/

Since so little information has been released by the Ferguson PD about the investigation, we are trying to figure out what happened by piecing together the statements of witnesses, which don't always agree. We have heard that Wilson was injured, but no medical reports have been released as to the extent or severity of injuries. Statements have been made that were later retracted or corrected, which makes me wonder how accurate they are. There are so many unanswered questions that it's impossible to know with any certainty exactly what took place.

What we do know for sure is that an unarmed teenager is dead and that he was shot by a policeman who had stopped him for walking in the middle of the street. That should not be a crime punishable by death.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

44. No....it doesn't

There are no official witness accounts (that I know of) that say Brown charged at Wilson. And while the witness accounts vary slightly (as all individual witnesses see things differently), they all have the same basic key points. There was a struggle at the car, brown ran away, Wilson fired as Brown ran, Brown turned around with arms up, Brown was gunned down.

If you have a link of real live witness testimony that say differently, or a piece of evidence that refutes any of this, please provide it.

[indivisibleman]

60. you will note

that O'Donnell points out that the Times prints none of the words of the witnesses.
This is a regular occurrence in reporting on this case. I still read statements like, "there were conflicting accounts made by eyewitnesses", "after the cigars were stolen from the convenience store", "all the shots were from the front" and "Brown was never shot in the back as witnesses reported".

The eyewitness accounts are by far more corroborative than they are conflicting. In fact most accusations of conflicts reside in a twisting of what was said so claim it is in conflict.
The cigars were not stolen from the convenience store.
Since arms turn toward the back and the front and have different backs and front whether raised or by a person's sides it is presumptuous to say that all shots were from the front. (we also as yet do not have information on the entry and exit points of each shot, where bullets were found in the body and at what angle the shots followed. What if the head shot enters the top of the head and follows a line toward the front of his face or chin?)
Brown is said to have been shot while he was running away. I don't recall anyone say he was shot "in the back" but that it looked as though he had been struck while he ran away. Two very different things and if he had been struck in the arm as he ran away it is supported by the autopsy. But the media keeps saying the statement that he was "shot in the back" isn't true.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

65. CNN just said

Several times "there are conflicting witness accounts", and that "some witnesses have said Brown went back at Wilson a little whole ago. I was furious. It was whoever the female anchor is an hour or two ago.

[indivisibleman]

78. I know.

They keep repeating falsehoods as if they are fact. Terrible reporting.

[csziggy]

92. Here are eye witness interviews cut together

Put all together, there is a consistent timeline and story.

[ZombieHorde]

41. I admit that I am no expert,

but I agree Brown's lack of abrasions on his hands and knees looks very bad for the cop who shot him.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

45. I'm an expert

at running on the road/pavement and taking a header.

Even at a very slow speed your getting some scratches and burns. There's just no way this guy was gunned down while charging, the force of those 300 pounds would have caused inescapable injuries

[ZombieHorde]

46. That seems correct to me.

I have fallen while running and my clumsiness was rewarded with abrasions. Brown's lack of abrasions seems like strong evidence to me that he wasn't charging.

I just don't want to claim to have knowledge I don't have.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

51. Gotcha (eom)

[indivisibleman]

80. The more I think about this

the more I understand your point. His lack of abrasions to his hands, legs, arms shows that he was not moving forward at any considerable speed and probably none at all. He slumped forward like the eyewitnesses report and then his head hits the ground right there causing some abrasions just to the head.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

81. Yup (eom)

[BaggersRDumb]

56. White racist cop kills unarmed Brown young man = 4 million internet arguments, endless

television personalities arguing all day long why the kid wasnt an angel


Black cop kills rich white unarmed kid, any color cop kills rich white unarmed kid, zero discussion.

Cop is fired or imprisoned, end of story.

[Tsiyu]

58. More damning evidence

Mike Brown was killed by a cop who was working on a racist, violent police force. The pictures of Ferguson cops aiming their goddamned weapons at protesters tells me all I need to know.

Ferguson PD is a trigger-happy, black people-hating force and it led to the trigger-happy death of one of those they hated.

The sooner they admit who and what they are, the sooner the town can begin to move forward.

Yes, Brown was executed, murdered in cold blood, and then left to rot for hours in the summer son.

Hatred of the "other who isn't exactly like me" and a love of violent solutions to every day problems make humans do ugly things.

It is notable that Brown's is the first murder of the year in Ferguson. That kinda ruins the "they're all animals" narrative.

The cops are the only "animals" in that burg.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

69. AND....

Wilson previously worked for a police department that was dissolved for all kinds of problems, "racial tensions" being one of them.

[csziggy]

64. Eye witness statements edited together form a consistent story

One says Brown was clutching his stomach (probably holding injured arm to stomach) and then dropped forward - as the cop kept shooting him.

[Vattel]

67. I would put good money on Wilson's being guilty of murder.

And this from a well-known Zimmerman apologist (lol)

[MoleyRusselsWart]

75. Absolutely but...

Will he be convicted is the question.

[Vattel]

88. That is hard to predict right now.

[tblue37]

83. I believe that the last few shots, especially the kill shots, were fired

in a combination of continued rage and deliberation. By the time of at least those last two head shots, Brown was evidently neutralized, no matter how much the cop wants to claim that he felt threatened. But as the cop's adrenaline-fueled rage calmed down, he realized he had a problem. How could he justify having shot repeatedly at a fleeing man who, as far as Wilson knew, had committed no crime other than jaywalking.

By killing Brown, Wilson removed the witness. I have no doubt that if he could have pulled it off, Wilson would also have killed Dorian Jones, to eliminate all witnesses, but at least he could count on Jones' testimony being discounted, since a black man's word against a cop usually is.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

86. The shots from the alalleged audio

Are telling. That second series after a full 3 second pause was very deliberate and not as rapid. He was carefully aiming and shooting.

My guess is he shot Brown in the arms, Brown recoiled instinctively with his head down (wrapping his hands around his stomach per the one witness's testimony) and then BOOM - shot through the eye and through the jaw and into the collar bone, Brown starts collapsing forward and boom - final shot through top of head.

I'd bet a paycheck this is what went down.

[TorchTheWitch]

89. thought you said you had evidence?

We have no completed autopsy from the state (which is the only one that matters), no story from Wilson about what happened, and very little information from the police. All the defense talked about as far as the autopsy was the gun shot wounds... only one of which, by the way, was to the head. Any other possible wounds we don't know about since they didn't say. You're also assuming that he ran away. We don't know that for certain either. And falling on pavement running in EITHER direction can cause abrasions.

Once again, until the investigation is complete and we learn about what was found we don't really know shit.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

93. Ummmmm....

You clearly aren't aware of the known facts of the case or how autopsy's work.

First, we have the results of a full autopsy by a well respected leader in in the field. The Dr noted abrasions to the head which were caused by the road when Brown fell and hit it - BUT STATED NO OTHER ABRASIONS anywhere on the body were found. And YES, obviousky any scuffs, scratches, and so on would ABSOLUTELY be noted as this is a criminal investigation and that information can be vital to any investigation.

Second, there were TWO shots to the head. Did you even read the autopsy results or watch the news conference by the Dr? The first went through the eye, exited the jaw, and embedded itself in the collar bone - the bullet clearly traveled in a downward projection. The second was on the very top of the head of this 6'4 man.

Third, yes, we know Brown ran away. First, several independent witnesses said he did. Second, the police have not refuted it. Third, Brown was shot 35 feet from the car after the initial shot was fired in the car. Do you think he flew?

Fourth, I have no idea what you aee inferring when you say that falling on the pavement when running "either way" can cause abrasions. You are correct, of course, but I have no clue what you're saying.

When a corrupt police force has been doing everything they can to obstruct justice and not release any information, its our DUTY to look at the evidence we do have and try to form a logical conclusion.

[TorchTheWitch]

94. ummm, you don't know how autopsies work

First, all that a defense autopsy can even do is review the county ME's evidence. The county ME would note any abrasions, but the defense only brings up from it what they WANT. So no, without the county ME's complete autopsy findings all we know is whatever the hell the defense decided to say.

You're right that he was struck twice in the head. I stand corrected on that.

You're the one claiming that the ALLEGED lack of abrasions are significant. No they aren't. There doesn't necessarily need be any more than the one that the defense mentioned. Abrasions can occur when one falls while running or while standing still and falling. Abrasions whether he had more than the one or not don't and CAN'T prove which direction he was running. And the shots couldn't have been fired while he was running away from the officer because none of them entered at his back. Clothing can also keep abrasions from occurring, and we don't even know how he fell other than the photo of him on the pavement with his shorts down passed his butt and his butt in the air. What parts of him not covered by clothing when he hit the pavement is not known nor HOW he hit.

Since we don't know if he continued to run after the first shots (that weren't the one in the car) or if after being struck with the first few that he stopped running by the time the last one's hit. It's entirely possible that the first shots caused him to stop running. See, we DON'T KNOW. And like I said, he may have been running toward the officer since he couldn't have been running away since there were no shots to his back. Even the defense acknowledged that he could have been shot while running toward the officer. I suspect they know a hell of a lot more than you do.

NONE of what you said is evidence and certainly not strong evidence. It's nothing more than your own speculation based on incomplete and unknown information. You can bet your sweet bippy that if abrasions whether present or absent showed anything significant in favor of the defense they'd would still be screaming it into every microphone there is. They haven't. And they also know a hell of a lot more than you do.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

96. Wow

Pal...are you under the impression that Michael Brown is on trial? Because the autopsy that we are discussing, the only one we have this far, wasnt from the "defense", it was a private autopsy requested by the family. And the forensic pathologist who performed it was Dr Michael Baden, a man with impeccable credentials who's been involved in over 20,000 autopsy's on everyone from JFK to John Belushi. I think its safe to say you can take his findings to the bank.

As for the Dr's STATED lack of ANY abrasions on the body, it is significant. Not as a stand alone piece of evidence, but as yet another piece of the puzzle.

Brown was wearing shorts and a t-shirt. Wilson is contending that Brown "charged" at him because that would justify the shooting. This would mean Brown was shot dead while running at the officer, with all 300 pounds hitting the pavement in a forward motion, leaving him lifeless face down as the photos of the crime scene show.

You ever been running and trip or whatever and fall to the ground? Even at a slow speed there is literally no way you will not have, AT THE LEAST, contact scrapes on either your hands, knees, arms, legs or all of them. Its no different with Brown. The fact that he had NOT A SINGLE ABRASION clearly indicates he fell where he stood, or at the very least was not charging at Wilson.

As for exactly what happened, you are correct, no one knows with 100% certainty. But we do know we have independent witnesses who all independently gave the same general story which we now can be supported (at least thus far) by both the autopsy results and the recent audio of the shooting.

That, my friend, is a damn strong case.

[damnedifIknow]

91. Ahhh shit

[ReRe]

95. Another scenerio...

I will admit that I didn't arrive at this scenario myself. I heard it tonight on the NormanGoldman.com radio show, the 2nd hour I think. Caller asked Norm to play the recording and count the shots. Anyway, Norm replayed the recording of the gunshots several times. Eventually, both he and the caller agreed that there were at least 11 shots, and if not, then 10. (At least 5-6 before the pause, and then the remaining 4-5 shots after the pause.)

The caller said he remembers the Chief of Police stating that there were 8 shots, as they had accounted for 8 casings (6 inside Michael and 2 recovered from a nearby house.) However, the recording proves that there were at least 2-3 more shots, and therefore 2-3 casings that weren't recovered.

Now the conversation returned to the shots heard on the recording. The caller posited that he believed that the first 6 shots were aimed at Michael, and that the remaining 4-5 shots were indeed fired at Darian (Michael's friend.) So where are the remaining casings? (My idea on where, is possibly in the vehicle Darian said he was crouching behind, or into the ground nearby.)

Now after the Feds heard that recording yesterday, I would have expected someone from the agency to get a description of the car Darian was crouched down behind and after locating it, haul it into the state FBI lab to look for the extra casings. And maybe before doing that, look on the ground near where that car was parked to see if they can locate them there, before they go to all the trouble of hauling the car in.

[MoleyRusselsWart]

97. Why wouldn't Johnson

Just say this happened? Why did no witnesses see this?

[ReRe]

98. Is "Johnson"...

... Darian's last name? I thought that was it, but wasn't sure so just left it out.

I don't know. I imagine I would be in shock if someone just shot my friend dead and now was shooting at me. I don't know where the car was parked that he crouched down behind. As well, I haven't seen a sketch of the scene at all. I imagine they all thought Wilson was shooting at Michael and was thinking about nothing but the seriousness of observing someone just being shot to death. I imagine that was or will be one of the questions they will be asked by the FBI.