Second Video Shows Brutal Gang Attack On Tourist Outside Baltimore Courthouse

[FrodosPet]

Last edited Tue Apr 10, 2012, 09:28 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/assault/videotaped-baltimore-street-beating-879234

4/10 UPDATE: Baltimore's police chief today said that the videotaped beating of a white tourist does not appear to be a hate crime, but rather "drunken opportunistic criminality" on the part of a gang of Charm City assailants.

In a TV interview, Commissioner Frederick H. Bealefeld III urged Baltimore residents to "distinguish between criminality and racially motivated crime." Bealefeld, who is white, warned against "race-baiting" and "fear-mongering" in light of the Trayvon Martin shooting and other recent racially charged incidents.

"There's no doubt it's a crime," Bealefeld said of the March 17 assault. "We need to vigorously hold criminals accountable, and we have to be careful not to be pulled into this race-baiting."

{ snip }

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These were stupid, over-energetic, and sadistic kids who found a chance to wild on a stupid sloppy drunk who cannot defend himself. It was spontaneous, and probably would have happened to any drunk stranger in that position, regardless of race.

What they did wasn't right, it should be condemned. But the way the right wing is treating this and similar cases is ridiculous. The victim is ALIVE and the perps will probably go to jail or long term probation if caught. It is NOT the same as Trayvon Martin, where a young man was hunted down and killed because of his race.

[msongs]

1. you weren't there yet you know what the guy was saying???? wow! nt

[FrodosPet]

2. You have a good point

Running one's mouth, particularly when drunk, is a frequent way to provoke a violent confrontation. But it is true, there is no evidence of that in this case.

[flvegan]

3. Charm City?

Irony every day.

[FrodosPet]

4. Kind of how Lakeside Dr in Waterford MI is no where near a lake?

Or how the Oaklawn and Turfway horse racing courses don't have a grass track?

[KamaAina]

27. Bawlmer native here. Yup, that's what we call it.

Without a trace of irony. Apparently the phrase was coined shortly before I left.

http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/summary9/

P.S. Anyone whose handle starts with "fl" should be very careful about location-bashing.

[magical thyme]

36. I always thought it was pronounced Bawlmoah

but maybe that's with my PA accent? Or just the correct, versus phonetic, spelling?

[KamaAina]

45. So that means you're from Fluffia or thereabouts?

[magical thyme]

47. born and raised thereabouts

although now I'm a Mainah. Ya can't get theyah from heeyah. Ayup.

[wiggle-room]

5. If the victim were black or Hispanic and the assailants white,

would Bealefeld and others be using terms like, "drunken opportunistic criminality?"

If the victim were black or Hispanic and the assailants white, and say this happened somewhere in, oh, let's say Alabama, would the term being used instead be "hate crime?"

If the victim were black or Hispanic and the assailants white, would there be multiple threads here, all calling for the arrest of the perps and decrying evident rampant racism?

I think it would be a different story here and in the media altogether.

What I don't get is why.

[Bacchus4.0]

6. I believe the story would be more "popular" if it were your scenario n/t

s

[Hugabear]

7. Typical right-wing race baiting bullshit

"What if the victim was black, blah blah blah"

This is the shit you normally hear from RW racists. You can't compare this to the Trayvon case. Are the local cops ignoring this case? Are the giving the assailants a free pass, excusing their actions?

[Quantess]

8. But I think the question is, why isn't it being called a hate crime?

I think it's a valid question.

[Hugabear]

10. Because the article says it had nothing to do with race?

Is there any evidence the victim was targeted simply because he was white?

[SATIRical]

25. So if the Sanford Police Chief says the Zimmerman case

had nothing to do with race, then it is true, right?

[Hugabear]

26. Is there any evidence to the contrary?

With Zimmerman, we had plenty of evidence - all those 911 calls that Zimmerman had made complaining about "suspicious" black people in his neighborhood.

In this particular case, there is nothing - at least that I'm aware of - to suggest this was racially motivated.

I'm not saying this wasn't a hate crime. But give me something to go on, other than it was just a bunch of black guys beating up on a white guy. Show me witnesses who heard them talking about targeting white people. Show me where they were bragging about attacking someone because he was white. Show me a history of them only targeting white people. Give me something to back up the claim that this should be classified as a hate crime.

That is, unless you believe that ALL black-on-white crime should be classified as hate crimes.

[SATIRical]

50. Irrelevant

The only basis you had for the other case NOT being based on race is that the police chief said it wasn't.

So either that is a good standard or it isn't.

Frankly, I don't think ANY crimes should be classified as hate crimes. A crime is a crime. If someone attacks another person, it shouldn't matter why.

We give punishment as a deterrent or for rehabilitation. Despite which reason you believe is the strongest, the motivation for the crime doesn't matter.

If punishment deters crimes, then that punishment will deter the attack equally whether race is your motivation or not.

If people need rehabilitated after crimes, the rehabilitation will require the same steps whether race was their motivator or not.

[Hugabear]

51. Bullshit

The only basis you had for the other case NOT being based on race is that the police chief said it wasn't.

The basis I have for not claiming it's based on race is that there is NO EVIDENCE that is based on race. If someone is going to claim that this was a racially motivated attack, they need to provide the evidence. Why is this so damned hard for people to understand?

Frankly, I don't think ANY crimes should be classified as hate crimes. A crime is a crime. If someone attacks another person, it shouldn't matter why.

Prosecutors use aggravating circumstances all the time in court. For example, if a defendant has a long criminal record, the prosecutor can ask for a longer sentence than if it were a first-time offender. Motives are often considered when determining sentences. So why shouldn't motives based on racial, gender, sexual orientation be considered as aggravating factors?

[SATIRical]

52. All you know about this case is what was in this article

And you drew you conclusions based only on what the police chief said. A month and a half ago, you would have likely said the same about the Martin case, especially knowing Zimmerman is Hispanic. But then more information, like the 911 call, came out.

Yep aggravating circumstances do matter in some cases. For example, crimes of passion get less of sentence than one that was planned out. That is because people don't fully think it out in the heat of the moment. So deterrence doesn't play a huge role. However, if a person knows they could get eh Death penalty for planning out a murder, they may be more likely to think twice.

And sentencing is relevant for repeat offenders. That person has demonstrated the shorter amounts of time in prison were not enough to rehabilitate him her.

Please explain how longer sentences for "hate crimes" are going to (or needed to) deter or rehabilitate a person from a crime against a person of a group they hate more than it would for a person doing it for monetary gain or for revenge against a person they don't like.

[Hugabear]

53. Once again...WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?

I am just waiting for ONE PERSON to give some evidence that this particular attack was racially motivated. So far, nobody has been able to do so - despite claiming that it is.

In the absence of evidence, you cannot claim that it was racially motivated.

Regarding the Zimmerman case, we have numerous 911 calls that he made complaining about suspicious black men in his neighborhood - so that at least lends some credibility to the claim that his crime was racially motivated.

[SATIRical]

54. Evidence either way

Isn't out there. That was my only point. It's hard to tell in that case where the details haven't been released.

[okieinpain]

34. oh it's not a hate crime, anybody that drunk would have gotten the same treatment

it's a kin to walking down a dark alley with money hanging out of your pockets. you have a right to be left alone, but I doubt that's going to happen.

[Fla_Democrat]

9. If the victim was a woman

Would anyone even dare to refer to her intoxication level as being somehow contributing to the attack? Well, it was a chance opportunity to wild on a stupid sloppy drunk who cannot defend herself? Ok, she was stripped, someone head humped her... but she's still alive.

[Hugabear]

12. Intoxicated people get targeted a lot

They're easy targets for those who are just looking for trouble. Doesn't make it any less wrong - these assailants need to be taken off the streets before they wind up killing someone.

[okieinpain]

35. i would. n/t.

[mactime]

14. You are correct, sir

This is clearly a hate crime and if the races were reversed there would be a huge outcry. But the majority of people are lead around by the media, if this does not make the news nobody cares.

[vaberella]

49. Hate crime or not.

The issue is that these people will go to court and will most likely pay for their crime. In the case of White on Black crime...the criminals walk. How many police officers have walked after shooting down Black people. I can name a few since a good number came out of New York during the time of Guilliani.

[vaberella]

48. Racially motivated or not...

The criminals in the cases of minority on White crime are caught and ALWAYS pay the price for their crime. The same CANNOT be said in the case of White on Black crime. Or in the case of Trayvon, as you seemed to skate around, the guy who shot him went fuckin' home. So please, don't sit there and compare. Because they are inherently different in their treatment by police.

[Enrique]

11. if he were sober he couldnt defend himself either

he was quite outnumbered.

And in the video it does look racially motivated, since he is the only white person present in that crowd and he happens to be the victim, and no one is helping him.

[FrodosPet]

24. African Americans are at the bottom in America

Economically and socially, African Americans are looking up at the predominate power structure, and getting hit by the shit coming down.

I am doing nothing but condemning this violent attack. At the same time, we have to pause a moment, and reflect on what caused this level of rage and hopelessness in the attackers. Perhaps if they had good educations, decent, respected and good paying jobs, opportunities for travel and recreation, and positive social and cultural outlets, these young people may feel like full partners and not feel the need to go wild on some sloppy drunk.

[snooper2]

28. Or if these punk beeyatches had some good parenting

One would think that would be at the top of your list-


When trash raises trash you end up with this and the Lynndie Englands of the World....

[okieinpain]

38. you're wrong. they just saw someone that they could take

advantage of, some people are like that.

[Logical]

13. So you think race attacks only goes one way?

[Hugabear]

15. Do you think this attack was racially motivated?

If so, based on what? Is there any evidence that the victim was targeted simply because he was white? Or was it because he was drunk, and an easy opportunity? Notice the article mentions that they took some of his belongings - which makes it sound like a mugging/robbery. Yes, it's still a violent crime, and the assailants should be prosecuted. But to label it as a "hate crime" simply because the attackers were black and the victim is white seems to undermine the rationale behind hate crimes, and trivializes them.

[Union Scribe]

16. Well maybe we should let it play out

instead of concluding here and now what the particulars are or aren't.

[Hugabear]

18. Exactly

I'm not willing to assume it was race related until we get information that it was.

With Zimmerman, there is plenty to suggest it was racially motivated

[Logical]

19. Answer my question!

[Hugabear]

20. Fine...the answer is no.

Its possible for black-on-white crime to be racially motivated. But not ALL such crimes are.

Now your turn...what evidence is there that this particular crime was racially motivated, and not simply a crime of opportunity?

[Logical]

46. At this point I have no opinion one way or another. Waiting for the facts.

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. Was he subjected to a breathalizer before he had the shit beaten out of him?

If not, then one part of your argument goes out the window right here, and I'll head off your argument about the way he might have been acting/moving... and I don't even need to point out what affliction he might be affected by to make him move/act...

Easy opportunity? To whom, why, and a group of assholes looking for a target of opportunity look for "one of their own", right?

[Hugabear]

23. So you dont think that criminals look for easy targets?

I don't know if the guy was drunk, ill, etc - but it certainly seems reasonable to think these attackers saw someone they thought would be easy to target.

In all of the responses, I still have not seen ANY evidence to suggest this was a hate crime. If someone has a recording of them talking about targeting him because he was white, then I'll listen. But just because its black-on-white doesn't make it a hate crime, unless you want to argue that ALL crimes involving people of different races are hate crimes.

[sudopod]

22. Nope

Only the get out of jail free cards.

[RZM]

17. I saw this a week or two ago on world star hip hop

World star is kind of sleazy, but they do a pretty good job of being fair and condemning racist violence against whites.

Anybody saying that this wasn't racist is deluding themselves. A black guy getting treated like this in a white neighborhood would be front page material on DU for weeks. And rightfully so. God knows there are plenty of racist white assholes out there. It's possible a black guy would get treated like this in a black neighborhood as well. But a white guy could meet the same fate in a white neighborhood. With all else being equal, this was a racist act.

My opinion is that this was a racist attack, plain and simple. I don't care what anybody here says. I've lived this shit and I know what I'm talking about here. DUers like to mouth that harmony stuff, but the world is a cruel place and that's not how it always goes. I really wish it was, but sadly it isn't.

That being said, it's not in the same ballpark as Trayvon. Trayvon is dead while this man will probably live a long life, albeit with an unfortunate story to tell. But why should we even compare the two? Both cases should be adjudicated by the authorities and the perps should be punished to the full extent of the law in accordance with the evidence at hand.

[ellisonz]

32. While the poster you were responding to was a Nazi fuck...

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

While the post it responds to was from a disgusting, racist troll... telling someone to go kill themselves is over the top. Suicide is real and it destroys more than just the life it takes.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:53 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I think the CS should be relaxed when it comes to racist pieces of shit like the one being repled to.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The poster was clearly provoked and while the statement is generally unacceptable, I'm going to decline to pass judgment in this circumstance via hiding the post.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: As much as I want to let this go, it is over the top and I just can't let DU fall to their level. Obviously the OP wanted to get a rise and he did.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

You're welcome - from Juror #3.

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. Dear Guy,

My husband committed suicide 4 and a half years ago. I know the post upset you, but there are better ways to respond. The jury also hid it and the poster was PPR'd. I am begging you to consider an edit.

Thank you,

Laura

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

40. I'll delete. Sorry. nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

41. Thank you so much.

I appreciate it more than you know.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

44. I deleted the wrong one by mistake. It's gone now. Thank you for shaming me into it. I needed

that.

[Broderick]

39. you can edit it out, change it

remove the post.

[MineralMan]

42. That post should have been hidden by the jury. It wasn't.

However, you can still self-delete it. It is never appropriate to tell someone to kill himself. Never. It is unconscionable. I hope you'll do the right thing.

On edit: Thank you.

[Better Believe It]

31. An obvious uneducated right-wingnut who won't be posting on DU for very long.